Back when the ACLU actually stood for defending the bill of rights, they defended American Nazis who marched through Skokie, Illinois. Because free speech — no matter how vile or repugnant — is guaranteed by the First Amendment. Or used to be.
No matter what you may think of a man who flies Nazi flags outside his home, it’s not illegal. Nor should it be. It’s a form of free speech and some would argue that it’s better for people like that to self-identify.
Early Sunday morning a woman at a party across the street from Alexander John Feaster’s home in Garfield County, Oklahoma tried to steal one of the flags. He shot her multiple times as she ran away.
From easttexasmatters.com:
According to [Garfield County Sheriff Jody Helm], she was dared to try and steal one of the two swastika flags that hang in Feaster’s front yard. So, she ran over to do it.
“On the way back someone hollered gun,” Helm said. “She dropped the flag at the end of the driveway and shots were fired.”
The proud Nazi sympathizer was arrested without incident.
Feaster is in the Garfield County Detention Center on charges of shooting with the intent to kill and assault and battery with a deadly weapon.
Play stupid games, etc etc.
Don’t steal property, don’t get shot.
Seems simple enough but people fail to grasp this very simple concept in the 21st century.
So true I’m fond of just tapping the gas petal when i see a person Jay walking, also if I’m walking down the sidewalk and a little old lady is standing there talking I feel no shame just pushing her out of the way for obstructing the sidewalk. Hell if a person’s dog takes a dump on my lawn I feel the need to shoot the dog and the person trying to clean it up just for trespass. For those who can’t figure it out that’s sarcasm. Yes criminal activity should be handled but the level of force should also be appropriate for the level of threat.
arc specifically stated theft, not once in your over the top rebuttal, did you even come close to that. Kindly pull your lower lip over your head and swallow. Thank you and carry on.
Aaron,
Theft does not entitle the property owner to use deadly force.
So pull your own lip over wherever you might like it to go.
For Aaron: you are absolute right I mean if I’m working a shift at the local gas station and a kid steals a candy bar and runs away I should just double tab to center mass and one to the head in case he/she is wearing armor. Thank you for pointing out my lack of pertinent example. Again this is sarcasm.
Absolutely right. You don’t thrown an “A” bomb at someone who dropped trash in your hard. Though I disapprove greatly the nazi flag, this was a bit of “overkill”on the part of the nazi cretin. After all, it’s a simple matter to call the cops and complain that the woman from across the road, stole your nazi flag
Well, you do you.
There’s a point, here! It seems like more fun to call the police and claim the doofus stole YOUR Nazi flag! And threatened to shoot you if you tried to take it back. Sit back and watch the fun.
I’d let my dog take a dump in your dirt-yard and wouldn’t clean ANYTHING up….. and you shoot my dog you’re screwed…. BIG TIME…
oh yeah…. it’s just sarcasm…. idiot
When a person allows their dog to crap on my lawn I clean it up with an old fireplace shovel and put it on the front step of the owners home. I also adds note to let them know where it came from. In my town the animal control officer will do DNA tests to match a dog to the pile . If a match is found to be your dog you get a $100 fine. Keep your shit in your own lawn!
Hey Aaron, be careful squeezing your buttcheeks, you’ll likely snap your neck!
Stuck in my ways — It’s much more fun to put the shiit in a paper bag, put it on the porch and set it on fire and then ring the doorbell and hide. The idiot will come out and immediately try to stomp it out!
Dumb ass that’s public property there’s a big difference between mine and public… dumb ass let me have some of your shit… you’d get raped by bubba cause it’s just a butthole who cares it’s yours… or take your car right… because it’s just a car… how about people don’t fuck with stuff that’s not theirs… it is cause being raised right not to be a worthless piece
Worthless comments he shouldn’t have shot but sounds like the perp wasn’t innocent hell free for all because the cops don’t get stolen property back sorry to bust the bubble they are like a janitor service but more worthless because they try to clean up the mess but usually mess it up
I feel no sympathy for the neo-Nazi. But my feelings don’t negate his rights to property and speech. I also think the man was wrong to use deadly force when his life wasn’t in danger (assuming there isn’t more to the story). I see no heroes here. Prosecute both of them.
Agreed on all points.
If someone’s going to fly a Nazi flag in America circa mid-2020, then (1) kudos to him for having the chutzpah to publicly express himself and (2) kudos to the person who has the chutzpah to express his disdain for such a disgusting [flag] display of racial hatred.
But Person 2 does not have the right to trespass and steal, and Person 1 does not have the right to shoot without the presence of imminent harm to himself. Prosecute them both appropriately.
I would like to note the irony of Haz using “chutzpah” to describe that neo Nazi schmuck.
No sympathy for either of them. They’re both painfully stupid.
I do hope the woman recovers fully — and I hope she learns something in the process. Maybe she’ll be less stupid in the future.
The neo-nazi cretin is certainly going to get the book thrown at him — and I hope he doesn’t get to breathe the free air again for a long time (I’d say I hope he’s less stupid in the future, but if he’s flying Nazi flags in his yard, he’s probably riding the short bus forever).
Love this “prosecute both” shit. Let’s see, misdemeanor theft of object worth less than a dollar, and felony assault with a firearm. Go for it.
These are all great theories but the world doesn’t work like that. In the real world people know that you shouldn’t screw with crazy people because crazy people will hurt you. She is an idiot and thief but she won’t be prosecuted for theft (despite being a thief) and she’ll be hailed as a hero (despite being an idiot). And that’s the world we live in: normal people (us) talk, think, and speculate; maniacs do crazy shit; thieves walk free; and idiots are heros.
@Larry & Richard,
We’ll have to see how this case plays out, but while Mr. Nazitard was clearly in the (felonious) wrong for his own action, Miss Klepto is also vulnerable to charges…not only of theft, but definitely trespass and possibly vandalism as well.
Note that I used the word “appropriately” in my earlier comment. Prosecute them both appropriately per their individual actions.
This wasn’t about stealing property. This was about denying the guy his 1st Amendment Rights regardless of how pathetic and hateful the manner in which he was exercising them. It was also about trespass and intimidation. Theft? She had no desire for that flag.
So stealing a flag out of a guy’s yard should be a capital offense? Just brilliant.
I don’t know if killing someone for a $10.00 Nazi flag is logical..Calling the cops would have been the ‘normal’ thing to do..but there are a lot of nuts out there..
@Lynn
You have a very weak mind. I’m just going to say that is wasn’t about the flag’s cost.
2020 still has the pedal mashed to the floorboards…
“2020 still has the pedal mashed to the floorboards…”
Preach it.
Just when you think when you have seen it all, here comes evidence we haven’t. Something tells me the next 100+ days to the election and immediately after are gonna be…
Interesting, in the ‘Ancient Chinese’ way…
Shooting someone for attempted theft is a pretty stupid game.
What if that stupid game includes morons trying to steal weapon and ammo? I’LL SHOOT !
It appears that the “woman” got played by one of her fellow party goers, perhaps they knew what John Feaster would do.
Yep, it was the conservative at the party that suckered her into it. BWAHAHAHA!
You can’t ask for a better scenario. Leftist moron tries to steal from Nazi moron, Nazi shoots leftist. The Nazi will not be prosecuted because his flag represents Antifa!
Wow. Stupid all around. She should have known antifa would react with violence to her little stunt. He needs to go to jail for a long time for being stupid enough to display that rag. And shooting the woman stupid enough to steal it.
Respect private property rights. Even if that private property is offensive to you. Freedom is messy. It gets messier when people let their inner stupid out.
I have to respectfully disagree. He needs to go to prison for a long time for being stupid enough to shoot at the thief while she was running away, not posing any danger to him. Displaying that rag, while also stupid, of bad taste and against my own convictions, is protected speech. No one should go to jail for his political views, however wrong and distasteful they might be.
I have to agree. If the views of one person can be censored, it can be done to any of us, just a matter of who is currently in charge. The Constitution was designed to prevent that.
The person you defended yourself against was in the process of forcefully entering, or had unlawfully entered, a home, occupied vehicle, or business. This does not apply if the person you defended yourself against has a right to be in the home, vehicle or business (owner, title holder, etc.) and there is no protective order in place. This also does not apply if you were engaged in unlawful activity or were using the home, business or vehicle to further illegal acts.
In Oklahoma, if a person enters a place illegally or by force, it is presumed that he or she was doing so to commit an illegal act.
The person you defended yourself against was trying to kidnap or remove another person against their will inside a home, occupied vehicle, or place of business. This does not apply if the person you defended yourself against has a right to be in the home, vehicle or business (owner, title holder, etc.) and there is no protective order in place.
You used defensive force because you knew or had reason to believe that someone was committing an act of unlawful entry.
Pointing a gun or other weapon at someone who is a threat is also allowed under Oklahoma state law.
Nope worthless protect property rights of if not I should be able to take all your shit… if I steal your flowers right now harm no foul… or steal your car I wasn’t gonna hurt you…. or steal all your money I didn’t hurt you while I did it? Only your life matters not anything like working… right? He’s a pos but she’s probably stupider he’s a neo nazi probably don’t need to steal his shit… but let’s steal some stuff it’s ok as long as it doesn’t threaten anybody it’s not like you work 40 50 60 70 hours a week stealing property is taking those hours away from your life
Exactly!!! Property is not just stuff. It represents the part of my all-to-short time on the planet i.e. my life, that I expended to obtain the said property. My breath, energy, and life force are embodied in that property. Steal it and you steal a part of my life. Oh, but it can be replaced, you say. With ADDITIONAL expenditures of my life force? Stealing from me again. Then there is the psychological damage of being the object of a thief. My point is, it’s not just stuff. See “life, liberty and pursuit of property”. Nazi guy and party girl both should face trial. And while I dont support Nazi views at all, his lawyer should make this a first ammendment violation case. Final word, don’t poke the demented bear who flies a flag telling you he is in favor of unwarranted killing.
Actually, final word should be learn to respect other peoples rights and property.
“She should have known antifa would react with violence to her little stunt.” ANTIFA is “Anti-Facist”, a guy flying a Nazi Flag may be many things but he’s not ANTIFA. She should have known that a Nazi sympathizer (Neo-Nazi) would react with violence.
While ANTIFA =/= Nazi is the popular understanding, I would say it’s a distinction without a difference.
They behave fundamentally the same way and want the same things: thugs using force to make everyone obey THEIR orthodoxy.
I believe the political spectrum to be a circle. All flavors of anti-Liberty tyrants and beliefs really are the same if they are labeled monarchs, communists, national socialists, etc, aren’t they?
Exactly. If you use fascist tactics you are a fascist.
A leopard can claim to be a lion. But he’s still a leopard.
Bingo, nothing else need be said.
Well, ‘cept for, “I hate Illinois Nazi’s” in the timeless wording of Jake Blues.
Yet, when the Nazi attempts to move into the middle of nowhere and live away from forced diversity, the Feds do every thing they can to force their orthodoxy upon him.
Citations, chris?
Ruby ridge comes to mind.
Exactly ……it is a circle and Nazi are next to or very close by communism on the left with all socialist …..exactly opposite on the other side are the far right, the royalist, all others lie some where in between …….
She was probably drunk enough to be thoughtless (or just thoughtless). For his part, Feaster is most likely one of those bozos who get off on Nazi iconography without actually knowing much about National Socialism. Stupid all around.
play stupid games, win stupid prizes
Gotta be the one to say it. Stupid People playing Stupid Games winning Stupid Prizes.
The next national outrage in 3,2,….
…but the shooter is not a cop, the woman, I assume, is not Black (media is usually good about pointing out that detail), and she lived.
Maybe she was wearing a MAGA hat when she got shot.
Fine the woman $20 for trespassing and mischief.
Stand him against a wall and shoot him. That’s what the Nazis would do, so just give him back his “truth” in full measure.
How about cut off her hand for theft, and give him life without parole for shooting someone that dropped the stolen flag? The recidivism rate will be zero. The more future thieves and gung ho shooters learn about this incident, the fewer incidents we’ll have in the future.
How about the perfectly American concept of the punishment fitting the crime? Her very little crime did not remove from the homeowner the use of a hand or any other body part. Her actions did him only a very minor financial injury, easily punished with restituttion and perhaps an order to sweep the leaves off his lawn until winter comes.
He on the other hand used deadly force for a foolish woman who was no longer on his property and presented absolutely no threat whatsoever.
We do not go Full Taliban Justice System in this country. No matter the hyperbole of silly minded folks wanting to make some noise.
Obviously I’m not being serious. I’m drawing attention to the fact that we have a repeat criminal problem here. Mounds of data prove that slaps on the wrist don’t work.
“We do not go Full Taliban Justice System in this country.”
Kinda depends where you are, I suppose.
Contemplate this – What if the setting for that little human-interest ‘drama’ was out in the boonies of Texas, and it was well after dark?
Eh? 🙂
Geoff,
Yeah, there are people who would do that. But as a country it ain’t the American Way.
I like when judges get creative. For a petty offense like she pulled, I’d have her doing his yard work. Or paint his house. Or wash and wax his vehicles. Something of manual labor to rub in the lesson nice and deep.
But he shot her over this, as she ran away and was well off his property. So for her it’s a wash and for him he deserves all the hell the court can bestow upon him.
Slaps on the wrist can work for crimes that are worth only a slap on the wrist. She’s some idiot who went up and stole a nazi flag on a dare and then dropped it when confronted. That’s worth a slap on the wrist.
Attempted murder is worth more than a slap on the wrist, however.
Cut off her hand for theft and the libtards would give her SS checks for the rest of her miserable life .
I’d have no problem making hand-amputation for theft disqualifying for any future government assistance.
As much as I consider Sharia law to be barbaric, I wonder what the real-world impact it has in the places it is practiced. Is theft actually less?
Geoff,
I doubt it is any less. Also odds are very good the “authorities” manage to “punish” innocent people along with the guilty.
I’m in favor of the death penalty for major crimes. My only reservation is in getting it right. The State killing one innocent person for a crime he or she did not do is entirely unacceptable.
Fascists, Communists, “Progressives,” and other flavors of authoritarian may or may not execute the shooter, it would depend on whether his actions served their purposes or not. That’s a fundamental difference between a free society and what collectivist authoritarians want.
Well said
👏
This is the smartest thing you’ve ever said on this site, you 🤡.
This wasn’t about stealing property. This was about denying the guy his 1st Amendment Rights regardless of how pathetic and hateful the manner in which he was exercising them. It was also about trespass and intimidation. Theft? She had no desire for that flag. Don’t agree with the shooting but a good beating would have been appropriate. I’m not a Nazi sympathizer. To the contrary, she her little stunt was right out of their playbook.
Ha you got the right idea no shooting but a good ass whooping will get the idea across… steal shit and get ass beat… seems like parents could have taught her that…
Hey can’t we at least give the guy a little credit for hitting a moving target multiple times?
Will have to go to the replay. Sometimes people freeze up upon hearing shots. Not a good move but she made a lot of bad moves that night.
Fireball shots will make u do some dumb shit..
Stay off my lawn, its called the first amendment
No, it’s not.
The 1st Amendment protects you from the government coming in and seizing your flag. It does not have anything to do with some random yahoo grabbing it. For that you need to look to criminal statutes. This is an important distinction.
Do they teach civics at all anymore?
@Hannibal
You’re wrong. It protects you against anyone. Whether a person or a group. Or are you saying my neighbors can come and take my stuff on a whim or because they don’t like me?
Interesting concept but, no, just no.
Idiocy abounds.
Yep, give him a plea deal for misdemeanor shooting a gun in city limits. She is lucky to live! She needs to be charged with trespassing and petty theft.
Give them each 6 months probation, a $1,000 fine and a restraining order against each other.
No big deal.
Jawohl, mein Führer!
Very big deal. It was a stupid prank carrying only a minor punishment under the law. He shot her as she was off his property and across the street. In addition to being a far over the line use of deadly force he could have hit other people not involved in her minor misbehavior.
As a Nazi who shoots a woman in the back for swiping his evil flag, he deserves the death penalty.
For her, the smallest fine allowed under the law for trespassing and being a dumbass.
If it was a gay flag he would be defended by the liberal media.
And the lady who stole it charged with a hate crime. I have no issues with him being charged but she also needs to be charged with a hate crime in addition to theft. Turnabout is fair play as they say.
Nonsense. Hoplophobia over rules all other emotional hot button issues for the lefties.
@ TheBSonTTAG, that’s why the very notion of a “hate crime” is wrong. It’s just a back door way to prosecute people for thought crime, or to be more cynical, a way to get people used to the idea of prosecuting for thought crime so it can be done more openly later. If someone commits a real crime (broadly speaking, violates the person or property of a non-consenting other outside of self-defense), prosecute them for their crime.
So we execute people for thought crimes here?
This wan’t about the flag. It was about denying his 1st Amendment rights, trespass, intimidation, and denying his property rights. He may have been flying the flag but she was putting into practice their playbook.
If he’s such a fragile snowflake that the big bad little girl intimidated him by grabbing (and then dropping) his nazi flag then he needs to harden up. Or was she intimidating him when she had the nerve to get shot by him?
What is wrong with you?
If it was a gay flag enouf would probably be trying to go see the guy he’s obviously ok with turd burgling or any kind of stealing
I mean, probably should’ve just burned his house down, if you were really worried about it.
However, whitey-Hitlight has the right to fly his garbage on his home. Weird dilemma.
You’ve brought up an important point, actually. His response, lethal force, was disproportionate to petty theft on his front lawn. But so was her response, and when I say response I mean petty theft as a reaction to the (at least perceived) threat or harm from the act of expression that was flying the flags.
See, if it wasn’t threatening or harmful, she shouldn’t have been trying to steal one. But if it was, stealing one of the two flags will neither neutralize the threat or the harm. She should have been trying to get him imprisoned (for something other than the flags, that’s legal in the US for a reason) or run out of town (aggressive and not strictly legal, sure, but a time-honored tradition — again, this is under the assumption that the flag-flying is harmful or threatens harm.) Of course, if the flag flying itself were harmful, the response should obviously be to argue the matter rationally and try to get him to take them down willingly. But we both know that reasoned political discussion, rather than name-calling and shouting, hasn’t been possible in the US in at least 50 years, so that’s out.
Regardless, the point here is that the sentiment “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” repeatedly expressed in this comment section is valid. But without recognizing how this act of theft can only stem from the same motive that logically concludes with arson, the sentiment seems callous and cruel. If he’d shot her with a paintball gun instead? We’d all be having a good laugh at her expense, even though none of us here are neo-nazis or want them around. Merely inflicting pain and embarrassment (and a bit of property damage in the form of ruined clothes) would have been being the bigger man here, when you think about it.
This wasn’t about petty theft.
Not much of a dilemma that I see. She was wrong and acted criminally. He was wrong and acted criminally.
But not all crimes are created equal. Attempted murder (or assault with a deadly weapon) is not the same as theft- particularly as the theft was apparently no longer happening when the shots were fired.
Assuming a jury finds her guilty she should get community service- maybe cleaning a veteran’s graveyard or something similar. He should get 15 years in prison where he can work on those nazi tattoos.
I would 2, tagged on the toe dead
The judge should fine her in the amount of a new flag, and fine him in the amount of her medical bills. And then sentence them both to 6 weeks in adjacent jail cells. The first one to apologize to the other gets a reduced sentence.
And I am so glad that there are no white supremacists in the ranks of the POTG, America is truly a post racism country:
“Deputies found suspect Alexander John Feaster, 44, inside his home. He was taken into custody without incident and later booked in Garfield County Detention Facility on complaints of shooting with intent to kill and assault and battery with a dangerous weapon.
A search warrant was requested for the suspect’s home. Deputies found at least 14 guns inside the property, as well as ammunition.”
A total of 14 guns, that’s enough to arm his entire Hitler youth squad!
Did you expect his 2A rights to be nullified BEFORE he actually got charged with a felony? Based on what principles? That you do not share his opinions? I certainly don’t either, Nazis are scum bags, but his crazy love for the swastika doesn’t make him a criminal, nor does it give any legit reason to prohibit him from owning firearms.
Such a puny collection.
14 guns you say?
OMG An arsenal!! /s
14 guns arming a youth squad? What a small time thinker you are. 14 is not enough !
Everyone seems to have their flags today. Pot flag, gay flag, antifa flag but libbies take joy when burning the US flag. Not all germans were Natzis and bad. In fact Patton liked the Germans over the Russians. Libbies hoist the sickle and hammer so proudly today as they fight for socialism. Sanders, AOC etc. They are the real enemy. The Natzi swatsitza era WWII flags will probably NOT awaken the liberal college indoctrination centers to what our older generations fought for. But they might piss off people to make a point. Better dead than red.
Germans who lived during WW2 didn’t have too many options either, and the majority did not get directly involved in the atrocities, same as not all Italians were pro Mussolini, or all French pro Petain.
That is not a German flag, it is a Nazi flag. Way more of a political party flag than anything else.
So what its personal property. Can I burn someone’s gay flag and get away with it?
Just burn the one you mince around proudly waving.
“Can I burn someone’s gay flag and get away with it?”
Let’s not discriminate –
Flag burning should be legal, as long as whoever doing the burning has the flag soaked in something flammable has it wrapped around them… 🙂
Flying a swastika flag in 1942 Germany is not the same thing as flying one in 2020 America. Doing so in Germany at the time was not only the norm, but possible a method of self-preservation. It doesn’t speak much about the person doing it.
Different story in 2020. Someone going to the trouble to fly that flag is doing it to show that they are a neo-nazi. Not a ‘nazi’ as the liberals like to portray those who disagree with them but a LITERAL nazi.
Doesn’t mean someone should be able to steal his stuff but it does mean that since he shot someone outside the law I’m not going to shed any tears for him being thrown in prison for years.
My grandma too a shot with her .22 at somebody trying to make off with one of her stone garden statues.
I guess because she missed and it wasn’t a Nazi statue it’s a non-starter.
Leave other people and their shit alone and you reduce your chances of being shot to nil.
WTF is so hard to understand about that?
Bingo we have a winner. You deserve 14 free glocks.
Shire-Man,
Exactly. “Leave other people and their shit alone,” or as I like to put it, “Thou shalt not initiate,” is the foundation of our social contract.
This country would be a much better place if it went back to being an alliance of everyone who followed that principle, and supported each other in defending it, against all others.
Exactly S-m.
I believe it’s stated…..”Don’t start no SH!T, Won’t be no SH!T”.
Witness the flawless logic of the incomparable James Campbell.
And the inane retorts of All Hail!
Q: Is it yours?
A:No
Then leave it the F alone…unless it is attacking you…Or maybe if it is on fire…MAYBE
Yeah your grandma sounds like she has bigger balls then 90 percent of the people here bunch of “fuzzy kittens” and yeah that’s what people used to do when stuff was stolen you stop the people stealing it.
Just a reminder, Nazi’s and any other moronic racist cowards are afforded the same protection under the law. First, he’s innocent until proven guilty. Second, he’s entitled to fair and speedy trial. Third, He’s allowed to protect his property under certain conditions. He’s been pronounced guilty by most posters on this forum and the media, that kind of negates the second. Where he failed, he acted outside of the conditions that allow him to protect his property, he became a criminal with a felony for attacking a criminal committing a misdemeanor, so he’s wrong and if the law works as it’s suppose to, he’s looking at some serious jail time. Otherwise, he’s would be just another asshole.
He is a “coward” for openly flying a flag you don’t like? Seems like the word “coward” has been degraded like “gender” and “hero” have been.
No, he’s a coward for shooting a woman fo a flag, instead of taking out of her hands, which he would have had every right to do.
So says Imman (THE REAL MB),
(Peace be upon Him…)
They both seem to be libtards. So neither will probably see much jail time. If he was protecting a Trump flag they would have already executed him. F@#k I’m so sick of liberal stupidity.
He should have picked Isis or Al Qaeda flag, or any other similar faction. Even our most deranged, anti first amendment leftists are afraid of extremist Muslims. Had it been a flag of the most authoritarian, criminal, communist entity, she would have hugged him instead. I despise neo Nazis, it takes a special kind of idiot to be American and Nazi, but as said it in the article freedom of speech still applies. She got her freedom of taking lead it seems. When two “geniuses” meet, don’t expect miracles.
Hey FAKE MB… at least you make sense, but find your own “Name *” LOL
Nazi. … liberal ……not enough difference there to tell them apart . Both are equally ignorant
Drunk vs. Retard. Stupid all around, no winners in that one.
Best result would have been she returned fire killing the Nazi , then bleed to death for being so stupid.
They both suck…FIFY. Ya know as an antique dealer I see Nazi memorabilia “collector’s”. Never seen one insane enough to fly that rag!
Personal property is personal property, not something free to steal because you don’t like the message it conveys. Convict her of trespassing and petty theft.
With the exception of Texas in special circumstances, deadly force is prohibited to protect personal property. Less-than-deadly force is permitted. He would have been OK to take back his (shitty) flag even if she got roughed up in the process. Convict him of aggravated battery if not attempted murder.
70 years seems to make a big difference in people’s ideas. Had he flown his flag in 1950, instead of 2020, he’d have had angry combat veterans in his face. A lot of GIs died in Europe to tear down that flag. By flying it here, he is pissing on their graves.
“Personal property is personal property, not something free to steal…”
You made several good points, but this one means even more today, in light of so many claiming that property theft does not constitute the use of deadly force. When a person makes $20/hour, and a thief steals a $400 item from someone, that thief just stole at least 20 hours of the victim’s life. With a finite amount of time that we have on earth, that time was precious, limited and can never be regained.
If someone says, “it’s only property”, they are saying that the property owner is enslaved to the thief, and the victim’s life and earnings are free for the taking by anyone willing to steal and become their master.
This, in no way supports the actions of the shooter in this article.
“With a finite amount of time that we have on earth, that time was precious, limited and can never be regained.”
This is and always has been, at best, a specious argument. The solution was known 2000+ years ago. We simply abandoned it in favor of a “all power and glory to the state” model of justice.
Collectively abandoned. Not abandoned in the individual hearts of freedom loving people.
Theft does come in many forms.
I’m fairly sure we’re talking past each other here.
There’s no being “enslaved to the thief” if you have an actual justice system and the idea that “theft” is some terrible crime where part of your “life” was stolen is simply incorrect. If anyone stole your life it’s the current government in these cases.
The people arguing “it’s only property” are actually correct. There is zero justification morally, ethically or legally for using deadly force for simple theft when the thief constitutes no threat of death or grave bodily harm to another person.
So where does the definition of property end?
If they non-violently “stole” your house, would you be justified in defending it? After all, it’s only property. Would you have to be there when it happened? There are too many cracks to try and justify NOT defending things you own. Most legal cases would not second guess something like that, especially for something that represents hate crimes and racism. We could go back and forth all day, but I’d rather just say “come and take it” in reference to my entire livelihood.
Unfortunately, the state, acting for society, refuses to put its money where its mouth is. It restricts the private use of force, especially to protect property, but won’t reimburse crime victims for their losses. During the bank bailouts a decade ago, there were complaints about privatizing profits while socializing losses. The reverse is done to crime victims. The government claims to protect society generally by restricting the options crime victims can use to defend themselves but when an individual is victimized, its response is, “How tragic. Sucks to be you.”
We could always go old school “eye for an eye”. He could steal some $20 item of hers and she could wound him with the appropriate caliber
I’m not quite sure how someone would non-violently steal a house.
However, the “cracks” you see are in the legal system itself. The old-school way to deal with this was to make the thief pay the victim for the theft plus some, usually 400-500% of the value of the object(s) stolen. If that wasn’t something the thief could afford then they worked it off even to the point of being enslaved to the victim.
Getting my house back plus four or five more sounds better to me than getting nothing but potential bills for damages while the thief gets three hots and a cot on my dime.
Squatting. Numerous cases of people who cannot defend themselves because they simply don’t know how, basically have their own homes overtaken.
Ragnar, Montana Actual, Kendahl,
Absolutely, irrefutably correct.
Property rights (and all rights) are subsumed under the right of first innocence – the absolute right of everyone who commits no wrong to be left alone. In theory, a duty to abide “minor” violations could be inferred if and ONLY if the police and courts were 100% committed to punishing violators to an extent that would restore all property AND place criminals in perpetual terror of crossing the line. They are not. Not even a little bit.
A government that makes clear that it will NOT pursue or punish “mere” property crimes, and that it WILL punish the innocent proprietor for doing what it takes to stop them, has effectively decreed that the criminal has a right to YOUR property, and you do not. At that point, it ceases to be the government and relinquishes all delegated punishment prerogatives back to the citizens.
The inability or unwillingness of others to act in an ethical manner doesn’t change your ethical obligations one iota.
Or, in grade school terms “Two wrongs don’t make a right”.
An improperly functioning court system isn’t a license to haul off and kill people for minor transgressions no matter how annoying those transgressions might be.
If you don’t like the court system vote for different judges and politicians who will create a system that’s better. Going Mogadishu because you’re aggravated is self defeating and antisocial to a dangerous degree.
False moral equivalency is one of the main reasons we have a social program for criminals instead of a justice system.
Initiation of harm against one not harming others is a WRONG.
In an imperfect world – where the right to absolute freedom from crime is a hopeless abstraction – preventing, deterring, and punishing crime are our natural RIGHTS.
When the Founders gave a fuck about crime and not criminals, our forefathers found it prudent to delegate FULFILLMENT of certain rights to the government. The actual rights, being inalienable, were never alienated – simply delegated for execution by those who showed themselves worthy of that trust – who are long since gone. The suggestion that a vote in a dumbocratic system has any hope of bringing them back is a tasteless joke.
That does not of course rule out holding fire to prevent the greater harm a criminal-coddling society would create for oneself and one’s family – but NEVER out of concern for the criminal.
This was obviously not about property. It was about his 1st Amendment Rights. This was an effort to deny those rights. It was also an effort to intimidate and violate his property rights. Does anybody think this was no different than stealing a little gnome off his yard? Flying the flag, disgusting. My father had a couple of brothers I never met because they fought to keep that flag from flying over the White House. But what she did was right out of their playbook.
Damn, shot for stealing a demonicRATic party rag.
Lol. Well said.
Interesting…what if thenthief had been stealing a car?
Either way…this is the result of stupid met stupid. Chlorine for the gene pool all the way around. If the other guy goes to prison it will be a win.
The nazi is clearly an idiot, and so is the stupid floozie that got lit up like a christmas tree for stealing. Dumb dumbs all around in this one
While stealing his flag seems a minor crime, it is, essentially, an attempt to suppress free speech. The same is true when people steal election-season yard signs. The value of the item is tiny, but the intent is an egregious denial of a right guaranteed by the US Constitution. I would not dismiss it as minor theft. Charge her with criminal trespass, theft, and any statute related to denial of first amendment rights.
His response with deadly force is clearly deranged and should be charged with attempted murder.
Essentially, yes. It’s also a nazi flag and a hate crime.
When keeping it real goes wrong.
A nazi flag is a hate crime????
Lay off the crack you monkey
What exact reason would anyone fly a nazi flag for? What were nazi’s found guilty of? What atrocities did Nazi Germany allow to happen? Are you actually going to deny that the symbol is pure racist hatred? Come on GW, I know you are fucking racist and dumb, but this dumb? Actually… yea, it makes sense.
“Charge her with criminal trespass, theft, and any statute related to denial of first amendment rights.”
Good point –
We are about to make police personally liable for deprivation of civil rights a criminal act, why not do the same for the general public?
A $50,000 criminal fine for theft of a political yard sign sure might cut down on the Trump sign theft issue.
For that kinda money, I’d invest a few grand for a motion-activated camera to catch the thief in the act… 🙂
Lifesavor:
How do you feel about “…steal(ing) election-season yard signs…” the day AFTER the election? Just curious.
Perfect poster child for Bloomberg and his ilk in their effort to convince the public that people who express “hate speech” are too dangerous to be allowed to own guns.
First amendment….beeotch…. lol there….I used your “ebonics”…. happy?
Stupidity begets stupidity. It’s the infinite circle.
That’s one building they could have burned down and I’d actually be all for it. Hell, I’d help.
Ron, is this a family member? Close friend? Or was it just you. We can only hope…
Stupid is stupid does.
The solution to this problem is obvious and fairly simple.
Moats. We need moats. Moat monsters are optional.
The city county council made me fill in my moat , and they confiscated my alligators .
That would have been a round up worth watching.
jwm and Castle owner:
As far as I am concerned, you two guys win the Internet for today. ILMAO. Thank you!
“Moat monsters are optional.”
Here in Florida, if you dig and fill the moat, the alligators will stock it all on their own… 🙂
I have a moat!
But it bisects my property instead of surrounding it. More work required.
Also wondering if beavers and salmon qualify as “monsters”.
I want all Nazis, Antifa, KKK, boogaloo boyz , radical socialists, pedophiles, etc. to fly their offensive flags, wear their T-shirts, paste their bumper stickers all over their cars or wherever they want on things they own. It is not only their constitutionally protected right, it serves as a clear warning label permitting a reaction gap before you get in to contact range.
The National Socialist appropriation of the Swastika is unforgivable. Would the Left please stop with their misappropriation and their B*S* propaganda phraseology: Liberal, Antifa, Assault Weapon, ghost gun, SAFE Act, Equal Opportunity, ACA, Constitutional Right to abortion/choose, Illegal Immigrant, Dreamers, Alt-Right, Fake News, Fact Check, BLM, Summer of Love… I’d list more but it’s not worth the effort. Generally speaking, any moniker the Left gives is usually the opposite.
For the left, illegal immigrants are always “undocumented”, as if the only issue were a lack of paperwork.
ding ding ding…we have a winner!!
It’s not even the correct swastika… BTW. Nazi used the right facing direction one.
Are you really THAT autistic? Gd some of you sub humans are REALLY REALLY DUMB
Stupidity permeates this entire situation. Adolf should have realized the reaction his freedom of expression would evoke. Rights have responsibilities, as well. The dingbat should have taken a clue that someone who flies a swastika might be a little edgy.
Meanwhile, lawful gun owners will again be vilified as fascists and killers. No one wins here.
Another abysmally stupid liberal woman, I have seen many, many of them in all the rioting and protesting.
They always look shocked, I say, shocked when people defend themselves. Things are starting to get so out of control, that this kind of incident will become commonplace.
To me, BLM (cops are pigs) is more offensive than a nazi flag, yet if the situation was reversed, the woman would be charged with a hate crime, and the man would be out on no bail.
In any case, I see NO difference between stealing my shovel, or stealing all the contents of my house.
If anyone is offended, you just made my day…. 🙂
I am not offended at all by your statement, what really offends me is all the white sympathizers who have taken the movement over for the blacks.
These same kids I think should hand over
1) the apartment
2) the job
3) the car keys
If they really feel soooooo bad about the blacks and their situation
I can tell them this( white sympathizers) Not One of these so called BLM protesters give a damn about you and damn sure wouldn’t stand for you in any way shape or form but they BLM were sure quick to let all these White millenials do their marching and statue destruction for them funny how shit works.. bunch of suckers.
And stay off my God¤□¤ lawn.
Let’s see. A Nazi was arrested and a Karen was shot — it’s a perfect story! The only thing better would have been if all Nazis had been arrested and all Karens shot.
How did the name Karen become so hated? I once loved a beautiful woman named Karen, she passed many years ago and now morons everywhere are disparaging the great name of a wonderful woman . F@#K ALL OF YOU !
“How did the name Karen become so hated?”
Blame Reddit. (Seriously! 🙂 )
https://www.reddit.com/r/karen/
I wonder what would have happened if this guy lived during WWII and tried to fly the swastika on his house in 1943? You know, that time when a lot of our American fathers and grandfathers fought and died to rid the world of Nazi oppression?
Nazis tried to conquer Europe and commit genocide on anyone who they deemed less than human or a threat. We fought them, they lost.
In 1941 they had no where near the respect for any part of the bill of rights we do not. Make no mistake, racism, sexism and suppression of minorities were far worse than they were today. The true fact was the “greatest” generation just was the last generation that had to fight for survival. The US had no choice but to fight in WW2 or it would have been isolated. It would be a second rate power by the 1950s. Germany would control space by the 1970s and I would have been all over.
All good points. Japanese internment camps are a prime example.
I was stationed at Norfolk Naval Station in 1987 at the height of the Cold War. I was billeted in the Submarine Barracks. Some idiot third class petty officer also billeted in the same barracks but a crew member on a different boat, decided that flying a Russian Flag (Hammer and Sickle) out of his 5th story window would be cool. The window was on a busy road. Well, someone notified Base Security. They paid the guy a visit, took down his flag and provided him a chauffeured ride in a Navy Limo to see the Duty Chief on his boat. He went to Captain’s Mast and the last I heard he completed his tour as a tender puke.
Important lesson: when your job is to protect a country from their enemies, don’t fly the flag of said enemies and expect everyone to be cool with it.
Before someone gets all twisted about referring to Soviets as our enemies, in the cold war that’s what they were. When a country threatens to nuke your cities and then movies ballistic missiles a couple hundred miles off your coast, they are your enemy.
The article only enforces my belief that some folks, on both sides, need Spayed and Neutered! Never convince me otherwise, and it’s the only way we’ll be well rid of both!
Spay and neuter all liberals would be the end of ignorance in this world
The Nazi could catch fire and I wouldn’t waste piss on him. That said, the amount force used was WAY over what was required. He saw the thief commit the crime. All he had to do was call the cops and he gets his freak flag back to fly and she gets an all expenses paid trip through the legal system however short or long it may be. He gets to stay home and hate in peace with the smug satisfaction that the thiefs day is ruined. Not the case now and I suspect, in hindsight, Adolf jr. would have chosen differently.
As angry as things like stealing a flag might make us you still have to go through a decision making process before responding. Shortcut that process and just ride the angry train through, you will have the rest of your life to deal with the consequences.
If I saw someone stealing my flag I’d be furious but I have enough self control to not react in a manner that turns me from innocent to guilty. It’s not easy, it’s life.
In hindsight Adolf jr would have chosen differently…… Nazi’s are not that smart.
Good point
I’m not a supporter of nazi scum but keep your hands off others stuff and obey the law and amazingly nothing happens.
Theres gonna be a whole lot more killin between now and the end of the year after elections.
Sadly I believe you are correct.
Luckily I live in a small town so lawlessness can be handled quickly. I fear for the TTAG posters who live in large cities and have riots.
In this case I side with the law, you can’t shoot an unarmed person for stealing something outside your home, and you can’t shoot them in the back when their running away regardless if they have the item or not; now had she broken into the house and was trying to steal something well then it’s open season; and I think it’s open season if they’re trying to steal your car.
Also you need to know your state laws too, because some states STRICTLY forbid the use of deadly force to protect your property, but all states will allow deadly force if you’re life, or those who live with you, is at risk. So if the thief has a gun and is trying to steal your property you could have a case of feeling threatened by a deadly weapon, but if that thief is unarmed that changes a lot of dynamics. Even if you have signs posted stating no trespassing you still don’t have the right to shoot a trespasser, unless that trespasser is coming at you with a weapon.
So going back to the lady trying to steal a flag, the homeowner is probably going to jail and should, and if that lady dies he should be there for life. Was the lady stupid for trying to do that stunt? Of course, but just being stupid doesn’t qualify for being shot.
Even the Castle doctrine won’t protect him for shooting that woman, read: https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/may-i-shoot-an-intruder.html
I swear I’ve seen that face in a list of dumb mugshots. But that’s who’s dumb enough to join a fed group like neo Nazis.
Illinois nazis? I hate Illinois nazis. Oklahoma nazis too.
Jake?……Elwood?……Is that you?
Nope. Now go away old man.
“need Spayed and Neutered!”
I wouldn’t worry to much. It turns out that Millennials have a much lower testosterone content than older generations. As result, there are much fewer kids being born and more are being aborted.
On top of that, living in mommy’s basement, and playing video games has a bad effect on their social lives. Their college education also reprograms their minds about the beauty of transgenders and gays.
The days of the current adult generation are numbered, and the coming crop of liberal idiocrats will create something amazing to behold…..The new national anthem, by john Lennon:
“Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too”
AIN’T IT GRAND..??… 🙂
I vomit in my mouth a little every time I hear that song played. It’s as though no one else on the planet is paying enough attention to the lyrics to know that this is not a song of peace, but rather a song of longing for the cultural obliteration to be wrought by our would-be communist overlords.
Exactly: “Imagine renouncing morality and reason for mindless bovine self-indulgence,” over and over again. Fuck both Lenins!
Shooting the thief over what is PETTY THEFT seems excessive to say the least. The police should have been called, especially as it seemed the thief remained in the locale.
I don’t agree with the shooting but make no mistake about it. This wasn’t about theft.
Crazy how many people willingly fly loser flags
Nice moustache.
This is to George Washington and the other Right Wing Dip Sticks: It is more than obvious that you listen to and love the Orange Hemorrhoid’s rhetoric. The comment better dead than Red should should be a real warning to you who are so quick to bash the Left. I served my Country, I love my Country, I love and revere the American Flag. When you start throwing around you hate and accusations saying Liberals like the Nazi flag and are Commies and spew all your other garbage, you are insulting a lot of true and good Americans! Look at your Messiah in the White House. He has so brainwashed you and indoctrinated you that you over look what is right in front of your eyes. He is Putin’s puppet and is selling this Country down the river! He has made lemmings of you and you will follow him right over the lip of the cliff.
Cool story, bro. I got the dd 214. And enough sense to know that putin is being served by the dems and the left.
Nice try, troll.
Eat chit mfer……js
… lol
Mick Quilan — are you enjoying your koolaid ?
So how is driving our oil and gas production up and oil and gas prices down resulting in an almost bankrupt Russia, playing into Putin’s hands. Your elevator doesn’t have to go all the way to the top floor to know that Putin can’t be happy about that. Your variety of stupid isn’t going to play well here.
She shouldn’t have tried to commit theft and should be prosecuted for it.
He shouldn’t have shot her (particularly after she allegedly dropped the item but even if we assume that’s a lie) and should be prosecuted for it.
The law should apply equally.
Someone needs to send this guy some money for his jail account….js
He won’t live long enough to spend the jail cash . EVERYBODY hates Nazi’s. If not in solitary he will be room temperature in no time .
Are you joking or what?
The Aryan bro’s in prison will make him a hero for the cause probably. He’s one of them.
Aryan brotherhood? Not even human. Just like the bloods and crypts NOT HUMAN ! Worthless pond scum . Let them rot In prison , or maybe prison riot , they can take each other out ! It would be an all around win for humanity
Evidently you have not seen some of the tats that guys get in prison.
Fuck you trash. Hope someone stomps your throat in, even better, I hope it’s a white right winger.
F@%$king Nazi’s. – they culturally appropriated a Chinese symbol. On second thought who gives a f@%k about the Chinese and their symbols.
Jimmy Beam says: June 30, 2020 at 12:42
lawful gun owners will again be vilified as fascists and killers.
__It didn’t take long ehh? Because this story fits the agenda of the left perfectly, tar all POTG with the same broad brush, it’s no surprise. TTAG’s own radical leftist/socialist, Miner the G.D. 49er, even threw in racism & white supremacist + Hitler youth – for good measure. This article was like the ideal piece to trigger ttag’s 49er loon.
Miner49er says: June 30, 2020 at 10:21
And I am so glad that there are no white supremacists in the ranks of the POTG, America is truly a post racism country: total of 14 guns, that’s enough to arm his entire Hitler youth squad!
It doesn’t matter who posts what, if anti racism triggers you, you are a racist piece of shit.
Ron/Grim Reapers is a trailer trash nazi wanna be. AB would dick you down and make you swallow.
“she was dared to try and steal one of the two swastika flags that hang in Feaster’s front yard. So, she ran over to do it.” What was she, like 12-years-old or something?! Talk about your stupid, juvenile, and (unfortunately) in this instance, fatal errors in judgment.
She was just really feeling her entitlement.
avatar Karen lover says: June 30, 2020 at 19:01
How did the name Karen become so hated? I once loved a beautiful woman named Karen, she passed many years ago and now morons everywhere are disparaging the great name of a wonderful woman . F@#K ALL OF YOU !
__Yo there sugar britches, you really need to lighten up. The Karen thing is nothing personal; guys with the name John are in the same boat; every hoe needs and is looking for a John. Even so, guys named John don’t seem to be offended. John Doe is a thing too.
How did you know where I keep my sugar cubes? Are you the one that keeps looking in my bedroom window ?
Dude, you need serious help. Even your attempt at comedy outlines a failed life.
Personally I think people here underestimate her crime along with the crime of the person or persons who dared her. This man was by all accounts a Neo Nazi and some among us hate him for that but by other accounts he was, to all intents and purposes, a good and friendly neighbor willing to allow others their beliefs as long as they allowed him his (I thought this was what America was all about). At a minimum by this woman’s action and that of her friends at least one life and possibly two (her own) are ruined. According to the report he had been robbed several times, had more than likely called police with a less than satisfactory result, and was probably fed up with the people and the system. She was just the proverbial “straw”.
Is it really his fault? He had been harassed for his beliefs on multiple occasions. How much should he be expected to take? Personally, I hope she has to shit in a bag and walk with a cane the rest of her life for what she’s done to him. In a free country we don’t harass people or make fun of them for their beliefs unless they harass or make fun of us.
I don’t agree with or share his beliefs but I have my own and you may not like them either. Tough shit, don’t harass me and you won’t get shot (at least not by me). Just sayin’
This. He was minding his own business. She didn’t. Two lives, at least forever changed and not for the best.
HERE! Here! My good fellow, you got it right, if the perp (her) had refrained from committing crime neither she nor the homeowner would be in jeopardy.
I now suspect the flags themselves were intended as a deterrent, having been robbed multiple times rather than a “Beware of Dog” sign the homeowner decided something more impactful was necessary to ward off burglars thus chose the flag referenced in the article. I also surmise if the homeowner was robbed repeatedly that his neighborhood isn’t the greatest and again the flags were a means to an ends ie. “just leave me and my shit alone” which the likely BLM-ers/Rev.Com/AntiFa/SJW-types across the street ignored.
I commend the shooter on his accuracy, hitting a moving target, it appears multiple times, is an accomplishment. I hope he’s acquitted as a matter of principle that should send a message to thieves everywhere.
Are you suggesting that his being a nazi should excuse him from the basic laws surrounding deadly force?
If you fly a swastika in your yard you don’t get to break the law because people have given you shit for it in the past.
“Are you suggesting that his being a nazi should excuse him from the basic laws surrounding deadly force?”
Why not? He has rights too. One of them is the right to fly that flag and believe what he chooses. The other is the right to use the 2nd to protect the 1st. Most of us say if someone comes to take our guns we would shoot them for violating our 2nd amendment rights. What’s the difference? The ONLY difference is the right we’re protecting.
Life’s really pretty simple unless you make it complicated. Your rights extend right up to the point where they infringe on someone else’s rights.
On one hand, we have a “Nazi” sympathizer/white supremacist/Neo-Nazi/God knows what exercising his First Amendment rights to make an ass of himself by expressing an opinion aka flying a swastika flag. Again, God only knows what opinion he was trying to articulate because I’m sure his explanation wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense to most of us.
On the other, we have someone stupid enough to screw with this kind of nut job by carrying out what we might call a triple dirty dog dare. One hopes some kind of inhibition altering substances were involved, but maybe not.
Bottom line here is that both of them are in the wrong. She infringed on his free speech rights and his property rights by stealing his flag. He infringed on her rights as the law of most states don’t allow you to shoot people who don’t pose an imminent threat of serious bodily harm. In short, he went vigilante on her.
Both of them are going to pay the price for their individual stupidity. Him criminally and her with whatever injuries she suffered and maybe criminally for the theft. Both played a stupid game and they’ve won a stupid prize.
Isn’t prejudice and hatred & racism interesting. That it exists in your mind, it’s YOUR problem, but it does come out and is exposed in a number of ways. Like in the comments of this article, fascinating comments many of them… All manner of bias and prejudice, hatred & racism – put into words.
Also a artifact from WW2, from ANY nation involved in the war, does not know it is a racist or hateful piece of memorabilia. Many are able to think of artifacts from WW2 in a strictly HISTORICAL perspective. Plus there’s the FACT that many of these items now have a high $$$ value. I could give many examples but I’ll just let you look it up. A search of the term high value nazi memorabilia returns some details and results. That in no way says that I have or collect such items by just the FACT that some items will and do sell for serious $$$.
However, I have no problem saying that I have a Mannlicher M95 Austro-Hungary Infantry Rifle/Carbine; this rifle was the principal Austro-Hungarian rifle of WW1. It withstood, in 1892, not the one I have but one used for testing at the time, a so-called torture test of firing 50,000 rounds through a single rifle without lubrication of any kind. At first I thought it was a cheap POS, but that’s not the case. Shoots the powerful and stout 8x56r round. It took a number of years to restore and it looks much better than the one in the link below. The Mannlicher M95 was used, in a number of ways and uses in WW2. Now I wish I had bought several of them and more of the war time ammo.
http://www.hungariae.com/Mann95.htm
I also have a SVT-40 (Samozaryadnaya Vintovka Tokareva) and some others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVT-40
No you don’t. What gun forum did you copy and paste this from? You own a baseball bat.
People being re-educated by Commies in BS that violent rioters & thieves burning down places have rights!
The Constitution is clear on this! U get shot!
The founders are rolling violently in their graves! People have the right to defend their property on their land…the end….
If everyone got shot for trespassing on Private Property & Stealing/Damaging private property crime would come to a end!
If u don’t know to leave other people’s property alone u should not be here on this planet!
Grow a set of balls and post under a single name so people can tell if you’re a home-grown wingnut or just some fly-by-night troll trying to make gun owners look like blood-thirsty rednecks.
don’t care
I want everyone in this thread who said she deserved it to think long and hard about all the stupid shit you have done in your lives, and whether you think you deserved to be shot for anything even twice as bad as stealing something off the side of a house on a dare which belonged to an admittedly horrible person.
This was clearly not a home invasion or some huge theft that would destroy his livelihood, or anything else that would even tempt me to use deadly force, much less legally justify it.
@Jr
This was something much worse than a home invasion. This was harassment (and not for the 1st time) for exercising his 1st amendment rights. It was, in fact, an attack on the constitution. You and everyone here can try to paint it as petty theft but you and I both know that you’re just fooling yourself.
This is the result of poor parenting. No respect for the rights and property of others.
Sorry, I’d like to put on my unconditional supporter of freedom and property rights hat and say of course you can shoot over bait but that’s not the case. You cannot legally shoot a fleeing felon, even while making a citizens arrest. The homeowners right to protect their home in Oklahoma is limited to the house and maybe curtilage – porches, under the eaves, between the house a detached garage. In Oklahoma, a person breaking into the house can be treated as an attacker with intent to harm.
A person steeling property outside might be a felon but, nationwide, neither citizens nor police enjoy a right to shoot fleeing felons, or fleeing felony suspects. Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985) That right is enshrined in the 6th Amendment (right to trial) and the 4th Amendment (right to be free from unreasonable seizure, such as seizure of your life).
Had this happened further south (Texas) he may not have been hauled off …… you have a right to protect your life, livestock and property and the flag was his property ……. But it’s always a bad idea for ‘the Castle law’ (Not the same as mentioned above ) to shoot a fleeing subject because at that time any threat to your life is over…. …….
I’m all for free speech, the Second Amendment, and defending one’s self and one’s property. That said, you should NEVER shoot a would-be thief or vandal as they’re running away from you. That’s no longer defense – that’s full-on assault with a deadly weapon.
If you’re going to own and/or use a firearm, you need to familiarize yourself with the laws regarding the use of deadly force. The woman was wrong to attempt to steal his flags. The man was wrong for shooting at her as she ran away.
Good, bad, or otherwise, both people broke the law. His offense was far more serious than hers.
John, I think I basically agree with you. Both things were really really wrong. I hate what the Nazi’s stood/stand for but as long as they don’t try to force their beliefs on me then the 20 years I served the Navy means I fought for their right to express them. I know some will say , “But hey, she was only expressing her feelings!” The problem was, she was forcing her beliefs on him for not allowing him to have his own beliefs. Sometimes it sticks in the gizzard when you have to allow things you don’t agree with to go on, but that’s the nature of Freedom of Speech. If that speech is intended to incite someone to cause harm to others, it no longer is protected, ” (Urging others on to commit a crime ala “The Accused ” with Jodi Foster) (ie. yelling fire in a crowded theater when none exists, just to see people get hurt.)” That said, never shooting a would be thief or vandal when running away from you, in this instance, at face value, I agree 100%. I can think of other instances where that would be the right thing to do. Such as the thief stole a gun and is running away from me and threatening the children on the street corner with it. I will take my chances in court, but I will not allow the thief to make good on their threats to the kids.
I also served in the Navy. The point for me isn’t that she was right to do what she did in any way. Instead, what she did was in no way deserving of death.
As you were in the Navy, you likely remember the Use of Force Continuum, as well as the Deadly Force Triangle. You might even remember the Seven Justifications for Deadly Force. Knowing these things, you obviously would not be able to justify what this man did in this case.
Yes, there are other instances where deadly force would be authorized or at least justified. I do agree that you would have to use your best judgment in such instances, risking running afoul of the courts in the process.
The point, for me, is that if you choose to avail yourself of any of your rights, you must understand those rights and the laws that pertain to your actions. As you said, the woman was not within her rights to do what she did. She was instead infringing on the man’s right to free speech. I have to assume he’s been subjected to much harassment due to his free expression. Most of us understand that “freedom of speech” does not equate to “freedom from social consequences”. Instead, it means “freedom from government restriction on that speech”. She would’ve been within her rights to stand on the sidewalk and yell in his general direction, or write a letter to the editor of the local paper, or even picket the man’s residence in protest. She did none of those things. Instead, she entered his property in an attempt to steal from him.
As for the man, he was not within his rights to shoot an unarmed woman running away from a botched burglary attempt. Yes, he has a right to keep and bear arms. Yes, he has a right to defend himself and his property with appropriate means of force. No, he does not have the legal justification to kill someone in this instance.
Maybe he was tired of the harassment. Sorry, but harassment comes with unpopular speech. Maybe he was tired of the trespassers. If you’re using your property to make unpopular speech, you’re getting trespassers. If he’s going to keep and bear arms, he absolutely needs to know the law.
John, well said. 🙂
Karen lover says:
June 30, 2020 at 21:42
How did you know where I keep my sugar cubes?
__Keeping your sugar cubes there might help sweeten what should already be sweet to the taste, but in your case maybe no amount of sugar could help.
Are you the one that keeps looking in my bedroom window ?
__That may have been the Golden State Killer [Joseph James DeAngelo]. But he may have looked you over, he did look in on victims most of the time, and thought to himself, I’ll pass on that one. That he looked and kept looking, as you mentioned… But he still apparently couldn’t bring himself to do the deed. Next time ask, or beg, the fellow to come in when you notice him looking. Swallow your false pride and don’t be too proud to beg.
Shut the fuck up looney toons. Before your Karen died, a black man stuffer her mouth.
At least he’ll get plenty of cell block cred with the local neos. “What you in for new guy?” “Not much, just shot sum bitch a few times fer stealin’ my swastika flag off muh powerch.” They might even make him grand imperial poohbah cyclops wizard, or whatever the hell. He’ll be in heaven.
He needs to spend the rest of his life in prison.
Just as an aside: The swastika is an ancient symbol that has had different meanings in different times and places. Actually, it is a pity that the Nazis appropriated it for their evil purposes, forever tarnishing its image in Western Civilization. I, for one, can remember (when I was a kid) seeing a swastika in a sidewalk-contractor stamp on sidewalk “flags” poured in Detroit in the early years of the 20th century. (Probably, all are gone by now.) There is an article in Wikipedia covering the swastika at this address: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika. Some of you might find it interesting.
oh yeah, a shame. distinction of whether right or left directionally as well.
my indian (asian) pal’s mom has old jewelry adorned with these symbols. many textiles as well.
i have a persian rug with this symbol all around the border.
Thats why I put fishing hooks in my American flag
I hate the fact this asshole can fly these. 1st amendment and all that. I Disinvolved all hate groups and looters and violence. But I’m also a big believer in the 2nd amendment. I’m not sure if you can kill a person over something that small. If it were his car that would be different story.
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