TTAG’s Testing & Reviews Editor Nick Leghorn has little time for the quasi-religious belief that ammunition magazine capacity limits save lives. You know: by [theoretically] forcing a spree killer or criminal to use 10-round magazines you [theoretically] force him to take a few seconds to reload, during which time an intended victim can [theoretically] mount a counter-attack and disarm or disable the killer. Provided the bad guy isn’t using one of tens of millions of higher capacity magazines currently in circulation or simply switches to another, fully-loaded weapon. Leghorn reckons it’s better to . . . wait for it . . . shoot the bad guy. That’s crazy talk! No wonder I was scared watching him load-up a Surefire 60-round mag which, by the way, performed flawlessly. OMG! Did I just give a spree killer a tip? Let’s hope they live in a mag cap ban state and obey at least that bit of the law.
A good shot to shot reload is 2-3 seconds. How much time does that really give you?
it was enough time during the Tucson shooting to tackle Loughner before he could reload a second magazine. All the damaged he caused was from one hi-capacity magazine
Last time I checked murder was still illegal and he is a murdering psychopath. . . 4-5k people die on motorcycles every year, they serve absolutely no useful purpose except for maybe pleasure (offroad not included) Maybe we should outlaw motorcycles to save lives. . . . Especially for the lives of girls who have a soft spot for drunk biker boys
Also, he could have easily had a second pistol. I don’t believe in woulda shoulda couldas
Think how quick it would have stopped if people were carrying.
^ This
Cause Loughner was trying to shoot Giffords and walked straight into a crowd of people to do it. That’s why he was the only person to ever get tackled and stopped. He was surrounded by people at arms length the second he was out of ammo. His goal wasn’t a massacre, it was giffords. If you think mag caps make a difference as the VA tech and Combine shooters, they used 10 rd mags.
Actually, the gun malfunctioned and then the extra long mag made a convenient handle for people to snatch at when they tackled him.
If it had dropped clear properly, I’m skeptical he would have been tackled during the reload. If something doesn’t go wrong for the attacker, then it’s a really dangerous game of Mother May I.
That was a handgun, though, and that particular killer wanted specifically to shoot his first target in the face at close range. Of course that left him vulnerable to an immediate counterattack. With a rifle’s stand off distance, the entire dynamic is different. Even among spree killings, the Tucson experience was rare. Others have been able to swap mags when empty or
change guns when jammed.
Really the primary people impeded, which is also to say imperiled, by arbitrary mag capacity limits are lawful self-defenders. They’re the ones terrified and marginally prepared for a shootout they never wanted or intended.
Loughner wasn’t tackled during the two seconds it would take to reload; he was tackled because he dropped his magazine, which was then kicked away by a woman at the scene. Those are the facts, look it up yourself. Seeing that Loughner could no longer shoot, another man at the scene ran and tackled him. It is ridiculous to claim that one can stop an attack during a reload; there simply isn’t enough time.
How often used it a factor in a mass shooting vs home defense? Meaning tally up our calculate the total number of people involved in a mass shooting that involves a “hi-cap” mag vs. The total number of people forced to fend off multiple attackers with only ten round mags.
There’s almost no chance limited magazine cap would have made any difference at Sandy hook or aurora, co (his hi-cap mag failed forcing him to switch to a shotgun).
The Arizona shooting may have been lessened by a forced reload, then again there is no guarantee that he would not have been tackled from behind had he a 30 round magazine.
So we have exactly one instance where magazine capacity had a decent likelihood of having a beneficial effect, several where it certainly didn’t, plus half or so of home invasions involving multiple assailants and the high chance of missing your target in the single most panic inducing event in someone’s life and ten rounds can easily fail to cut it.
Sorry the defense needs of adrenaline fueled, near panicked homeowners across the nation outweigh the least important factor for the safety of the comparatively fewer mass shooting victims.
After all, if a 30 (or 60) round magazine saves only one life…
In other words, what’s more deserving of attention, A single mass shooting or half or so of all home invasions?
Can’t we just pass a law against murder? Wouldn’t that take care of it? I mean, don’t even try to tell me there are those who would not pay attention.
Only because he opened up in the middle of the crowd rather than from the edge of the crowd, also the crowd was why the 2 ccw guys on sight didn’t open up on him.
Oh, I hadn’t heard that! Is the media keeping it a secret?
So now your ar can be a big booty girl too
Doesn’t surefire have a 100 as well? Is it as functionally reliable?
Yes they do and yes it is just as reliable. Try this for irony Surefire is a CA based company….
Its in Fountain Valley, CA, and they offer factory tours. It’s about 25 miles from where I live, and the Oakley world warehouse is about 30 miles. Both offer excellent customer service.
So is ProMag
The only bad things I’ve ever heard about them are from people who don’t know from experience, but “think” that something that big “must be unreliable.”
They’re basing opinions on previous drum-based efforts like Beta Mags
Oh the humanity! If only it had been one of those safe-for-babies-and-old people 59-round magazines!
Wait, what? Nothing bad happened? Huh … how ’bout that?
Strap two together, and now you have 120 pills at your disposal. Where will the Madness end?
I like your style.
That would be pretty difficult to do based upon the shape and weight of the fully loaded mag.
We can dream, can’t we?
It would be a mitt-full, but with enough Sponge Bob tape you could get it done.
think of the sheer horror that would be caused if someone strapped two 100rd drums together. (if it was possible)
Velcro, duct tape, or crazy glue, it can be done!
Gorilla tape. That stuff makes duct tape look wimpy.
Jeez, I keep trying to make my AR LIGHTER, for carrying, and we need to deal with hundreds of rounds of ammo? That’s what 20-round mags and bandoliers are good for. Or, 30-rd mags and bandoliers of stripper clips.
What we need is a flexible extended magazine we can strap to our arms, under your long sleeve shirt of course. then there would be a short piece of magazine, coming out the bottom of your AR, that would quickly snap on to the arm mag.
This of course brings new meaning to the phrase “we’re connected” Can’t you just see it? Arnold Swartz-a- ma-call-it, yelling, “I’ll be back, and when I come I’ll be connected”
I’ve been hesitant to buy one of these, but they sure look fun. I have a 75 round drum magazine for my AK.
Scientific tests have proven that the eleventh round is the one that does all the indiscriminate killing, while rounds one through ten save all the baby whale pot smoking moms for mayors. Or something.
I’ve never tried whale pot… is it fun?
Hard to spark a bowl at 30 feet under.
There’s nothing lower than whale pot. Not even ditch weed.
OOooh. Can we invent a *31* round mag which will not allow the evil 11th round to be loaded! That could WORK! Even without excessive retooling. TA-TA!! Now everybody is happy, no?
I just saw Jerry Miculek fire 10 rounds of 12gauge in 1.21seconds. On target. No 60 round mag needed. And he’s even older than me.
Jerry’s older than EVERYBODY! ;D
That’s because his trigger finger warps the space time continuum and he ages slower than everyone around him.
Great point about mag limits being a “quasi-religious” belief system, Robert. The cosmologists have there Big Bang Theory, which is religion disguised as science, and the Holy Magic Mag Limit Empire.
Cosmologists have run into one fact after another that casts doubt on the BBT, and they keep thinking of things like “Dark Matter” and “Dark Energy” to prop that mess up. They are religiously attached to it, and won’t let facts suggest they need to start from scratch again….
We await your research proposal.
The 60 round magazine doesn’t scare me. You know what scares me? Teenagers with car keys – that scares the shit out of me.
Especially after a little drinky poo
Yes sirree.
OMG! it only holds 60 oh the horror
If it saves one life…. The more I think about that justification, the more I realize how horrible it is. On paper (regardless of what law that justification is for), it seems great. Every single human life on the planet has an inherent value. But you could use that justification for for almost anything. People have gotten into verbal confrontations that escalated until guns were drawn, and innocent bystanders were killed in the ensuing shoot-out. So, repeal the First Amendment and have speech cops. If it saves one life….
The point is, there is no shortage of asinine laws that “if it saves one life….” could be used as justification for. And it seems so reasonable at first glance….
Ban all cops. If it saves one innocent life…
Or one dog…
Or one donut!
Didn’t the guy in Norway use 10 rounders?
Can you guys do a compilation of just how many spree killers were miraculously stopped during mag changes, vs how many times a killer was rushed unsuccessfully? I’m tired of hearing that tired mag cap excuse…….
I’d love to see that study!
Not sure, but I think it’s been done, as in Tuscon was the only example that did not occur in the movies, inspired by the desire to outlaw inanimate objects.
One thing about these mags is that they need copious amounts of liberal tears to function properly. Good thing those are in nearly infinite supply!
This is clearly not a 60 round magazine. Its an ultra high capacity extra magnum death .30 caliber mag clip. Ban it. Save the dolphins. Nobody needs 60 clip mags ever for self-defense ever. Says the people who have never owned a gun….
I actually shot a multigun match with Mr. Leghorn about a year ago. While waiting for the next stage, a group of us were standing around and talking, and the reliability of high-capacity (as in, actually higher than the standard 30) AR magazines came up. Foghorn retrieved a Surefire 60-rounder, I guess the same one in the video, from his range bag, explaining how perfectly it had functioned for him. To prove the point, he loaded it up, started the next stage… And promptly had 2-3 feed failures.
Now, I’m sure the thing normally worked just fine, and every piece if equipment eventually malfunctions. But the sheer irony of seeing the thing misfeed repeatedly not five minutes after a lengthy speech extolling its reliability was hilarious.
10 rnd mags were used by Klebold & Harris. Good thing CO finally passed a mag law… oh wait….
Look at China, nutters with knives (lest we forget Rwanda) killed 29 people and injured over 100 people. It’s the mentality, not the inanimate object. But I’m just preaching to the choir, eh, and who cares about common sense or reason, blah!
60 rounds, great but at $129 each I will pass. Magpul 40 round mags for $19 for me.
Yeah, I checked ’em out, as well. A little steep for me. Not saying they aren’t worth the price, just that I’ll probably never know.
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