Jarhead6 proves that even a GLOCK – yes a GLOCK! – might be ammo sensitive. Or prone to limp wristing. Or, God forbid, fail to function for some unknown reason. All I’ve got to say about that: all mechanical devices can fail. Anyone who believes that his GLOCK brand GLOCK will never, ever let him down is setting themselves up for catastrophic failure – of their abilities during a defensive gun use. Double-feed! Tap, rack, it still doesn’t fire! What will you do? Seriously, what will you do? A gun is a tool. Don’t be one and stake your life on the Austrian brand’s rep for perfection. Nothing’s perfect. Except this post, obviously.
That’s clearly faked.
Now that being said, pardon me gents. I have to remove this Beretta slide from my jaw…….
Excuse me, My Nano now has over 7,000 rounds through it all flawless. Range buddy had over 19,000. I will run this little Micro 9mm against any Glock made. And the build quality of the Nano is about as good as you will ever find in in comparison to other Micro 9mm. I have nothing against Glock. Just have never believed all the crap about them being perfect. No firearm is.
I’m just happy with the fact that when a Glock fails to fire, it’s rare enough that it is an OMG!/Newsbreak! moment.
Although I’m a fan, I can admit that Glocks are not perfect. But neither am I, so I consider us a good match.
I don’t love them, but I respect them. However, the one type of gun (that shall remain nameless here) whose owners seem to make a recreation out of picking on Glock people…? I see them jam all the time. Not because they’ve been limp wristed, but simply because they frigging exist, apparently.
About three weeks ago I took a friend to the indoor range. He struck up a conversation with someone who had one of Those Guns who swore up and down that it had functioned reliably for her. He was overjoyed to hear this; he had reluctantly sold his years ago because it jammed a lot. She let him shoot two mags. It jammed, nose into the feed ramp. I’d almost bet money she is continuing to tell people it’s utterly reliable.
It’s certainly wrong for Glocksters to claim their guns are perfect. But they are a hell of a lot better than that other kind; to the point where those other folks have to whoop for joy on the occasions where a Glock fails.
Yeah; I’d carried a Glock 30 CC for over 10 years; I shot it once as a test after burying it in sand, shot two mags flawlessly. It did have a failure to feed once about 3 years ago. So even a Glock is not perfect.
But then I’ve carried one of “those guns” (I’m assuming you mean a 1911) OC for about 3 years, A RI initially, but it would have an FTF once in a while, about every 20 rounds, so I sold it and went with a Kimber and now a Sigsauer; both have been flawless. I carry the full sized versions. I hear the compact and subcompact models tend to jam more often.
It is true that the compact models (Commander and Officer sizes) tend to have more issues. However, I have a Kimber Pro Carry II (Commander size) that has been utterly reliable. I can’t actually remember the last time it did anything wrong.
Wow! What a timely post this was! Went to Walmart today and bought 400 rounds of Tulammo Maxx Brass on my way to the range. The wife and I split 100 rounds and each of us had a double feed issue (Fail to extract) and she had a fail to fire. She was shooting the Beretta Nano and I had my flawless Glock 19. This was my first failure with my Glock 19 in a year and over 5000 rounds. I have not cleaned our guns for the last three trips to the range so that may be part of the issue. This was the first time ever using the Maxx Brass. I have had not one single issue with the steel cased stuff. I have never claimed that Glocks don’t fail but you can not say they are not more reliable than most auto pistols.
Glocks are a tool that seem to do a decent job. I say decent because I have been all over the map with them. I have had a real love / hate relationship with glocks. At this time I am about in the middle and do not particularly love or hate them. With all of that said I typically carry a Glock 19. I might add with a different trigger connector different sites and some replaced springs. I would bet my life on it.
I bought two 100 rnd cans of 9mm Brass Maxx Tula ammo. I had multiple FT feed and FTF in multiple pistols that have had never had a single jam in 1000s of rounds. Literally first malfunctions ever. The ammo is bunk. Zero issues with the steel case by Tula however.
I have three cans left. I should have been leery when the “All ammo sales are final” sign was on the same shelf with this stuff.
DAMMIT! I just bought two cans of that stuff. It’s so shiny and pretty! How can it be bad?! Guess I get to practice malfunctions.
I just shot a 100 rounds of Tula Brass Max through my Gen4 G34 with no issues.
I had two 100 round cans of Brass Maxx Tula also and had 5 failure to feeds on my G19 out of the 200. All chambered with a tap on the back of the slide. Only failures so far with about 1000 rounds through a new gun. Had similar problems with Tula brand in my .380. I initially thought it is cheap and practice ammo so who cares. Then decided I don’t like failures even in practice loads so I will not be buying anymore.
The only thing failures during practice hurt is your pride. You can’t beat that price and training to clear malfunctions may be priceless.
You get a thumbs-up from me for today.
The only thing that failures hurt during practice…. etc.
True that. In the abstract I wouldn’t mind a gun that choked on lower-powered range ammo as long as I knew it would run (nearly) flawlessly on defensive ammo, which of course is when you REALLY need it to.
In practice, when you have a gun that chokes a lot during practice, you get that niggling doubt in the back of your mind that the gun is trustworthy at all.
Personally, I would never use the steel projectile Tulammo in my pistol. Cheap ammo = all kinds of misfires.
Glock brand Glocks still make excellent batarangs in that situation. Just don’t tell Batman.
Even superman ducked when the bad guy would throw his empty gat at him!
Noooo, a Glock brand Glock fails…….kinda glad my “Glock” is a Ruger……./Sarc.
Anything made by man can fail. Perfection? Glock’s marketing nitwits need to understand that guns aren’t curtain rods.
Ralph, you’re subversive in so many ways… 😉
Just another sign of the apocalypse. . .
; P
It only happened because they said it couldn’t. Ain’t that what sunk the Titanic?
Well, let June 30th, 2014 be the day the interwebs declared GLOCK to be OVER
Or something.
Another casualty of Freedom Group!
Oh wait. NVM. Stuck in outrage mode from a different website.
Train the correct malfunction. I’ve had Ak’s jam on me too. When people hear that its almost like you told them the earth is flat, but its true. ALL guns can jam.
I’ve had a stovepipe–once. So yes it can happen, but it IS surprising when it does. Unlike, say, a Tec-9 where a mag with no jams is newsworthy.
Yes sir, that made me chuckle, I mean just thinking of a tec-9… hahahaha.
Just one question:
What is a moon arch?
In it’s defense, monarch is crap ammo. I have had light primer strikes with an XDm using monarch. It is the only time I have been able to make the gun malfunction.
I thought it was Mon-Arcsh ?
My 1911 devours Monarch, steel and brass cased stuff, and at 14.99/box of 45ACP no complaints here, just dirty as all hell.
That’s an ammo failure, not a gun failure – and the box looks like it was rolling around on the floor of someone’s truck when Clinton was in office. It isn’t news that it’s possible to make bad ammo. Anyone trying to use steel-cased McAmmo for defense deserves what they get.
“That’s an ammo failure, not a gun failure”
As are a lot of firearms malfunctions, but that does not stop the fanbois of various stripes from crawling out of the woodwork with claims of “never malfunctions” and “eats everything.”
Yep. It’s only an ammo failure when it isn’t a Glock.
Seriously, folks. I’ve seen more crap ammo (both in the form of new/imported/steel-case brands, and individual examples of crappyness in brands that used to be reliable performers) in the last 2 years, than I have in the previous 20 years. What this means is: factory ammo is no longer as reliable as it used to be, so we can no longer use factory ammo as a standard to judge how reliable our firearms are during testing/training. Make sure you try multiple brands and types of ammo, before making any firm calls on the reliability of a firearm.
And don’t expect top-shelf results from bargain-basement ammo (in reliability OR accuracy).
That was brass in the video.
I’m not personally familiar with that ammo, and it kinda LOOKED brass-cased, but when he held up the box to the camera, the letters “STEEL” are clearly printed on the top-right corner of the box face. Maybe it’s steel-cased with some kind of a copper wash/plating on the case?
Anyone who has used it, can you comment?
Monarch makes steel (good polymer coated steel no lacquer, looks like reboxed wolf maybe?) and brass cased (reboxed Prvi Partisan, headsamp was PPU). The brass may be some kind of plating/ coating on an inferior metal though as you suggest. Bought a few boxes of the “brass” Monarch and it shot great but left little flakes of some semi transparent yellowish substance almost like enamel of some sort all over the action.
The steel stuff is great though at least in 45… great accuracy 0 malfunctions in the few hundred rounds I bought, no more dirty than any other cheap ammo.
Thanks for the info, Tex300BLK.
When you are in a fight for your life, you press the fvcking trigger, and the gun doesn’t go boom, are you going to have the philosophical question of, “was it a mechanical malfunction or a ammunition malfunction?”
Will answering that question improve your unfortunate situation in any way?
I thought not.
Its a fvcking malfunction. Now get the gun running again, finish your engagement, scan, safely holster, then run to the end of the fence and back until i tell you to stop.
Yes during a gun fight it matters not why it malfunctioned. BEFORE the gun fight, if it truly is the ammo not the gun, you can reduce your chances of a major Oh $#!+ at a bad time by switching ammo. If it’s the gun, you need to man up and admit your prized such-and-such is in fact not a gun you want with you in a dark alleyway. So it IS important to be able to tell the difference–just don’t bother with it during the gunfight.
Monarch is cheap and usually available at Acadamy. I’ve used it (brass & steel) for IDPA when short of reloads. never had a problem with my S&W brand glock. I see Glocks choke at matches all the time but I suspect ammo problems more than Glock problems. We have one guy (an excellent shooter) who I’ve never seen complete a match w/o a jam or FTF with a 1911, just part of doing the biz.
Glocks are not perfection. Chevys are not built like a rock. Budweiser is not the king of beers. Nationwide is not on your side. The best tires in the world do not have Goodyear written on them. Wheaties is not the breakfast of champions. M&Ms will melt in both your mouth and your hand. What happens in Vegas does not stay in Vegas. Gillette is not the best a man can get. And plenty of things run just like a Deere.
Welcome to the real world.
Do not slander the good name of M&M, sir. They do not, in fact, melt anywhere but your mouth. Or a campfire. Or a microwave.
The milk chocolate melts in your mouth not in your hands. They have a candy coating that will stain your hands but the chocolate doesn’t. So technically that claim is correct.
Yeah just like 1911’s dont fail… they have “magazine issues” or “extractor issues” etc but they dont fail…. never…
tongue firmly in cheek
Tex, surely you know that the 1911 is the finest handgun ever made with a time-proven design? Blasphemy against the sacred name of John Moses Browning!
(Hmmm, evidently HE didn’t think so as he continued designing handguns afterwards.)
Ha haha haha. Fun to read but Ooohh so true.
+1000
If it weren’t for the wit @SCOTUSBlog was dishing out today, you’d win the Interwebz for that.
…where everything has planned obsolescence so that you have to buy more and keep the gears of economy rolling… 😀 finished that for you.
are too. is so. do too. will not. does too. yeah it is. nunh unh.
If he is going to make these video’s the first thing he should do is put some damn glasses on. I cannot harp on this enough as I have experienced temporary site loss in one eye back when I was younger and dumber.
What accent is that? I thought I was watching an episode of Swamp People.
Had a Glock 38? (45 gap) fail over and over and over because the ammo American Eagle, shed so much brass flecks the gun would seize. We’re talking after a single box (50). Rinse and repeat, for same results.
I see them fail regularly at competitions– could be ammo, I don’t know. But they have malfunctions, just like every other brand.
Could be modified Glocks too.
I would first ask if they’re running aftermarket barrels or magazines.
#1 cause of failure on a semi-auto is the magazine. Far and away.
But in a Glock, those who replace their Glock barrels with something aftermarket so they can shoot lead loads experience a higher rate of issues than if they were shooting factory new jacketed ammo out of a gen-ew-wine Glock barrel.
I have no love for Glocks. I’m somewhat known around these parts for a low opinion of Glocks and their cheez-whiz construction. But I will readily admit that if you’re using factory-new ammo from a reputable ammo manufacture (Federal, CCI, Remchester, Speer, et al) and not cheap-assed com-block or third-world world crap (Tula, Wolf, etc), Glocks have very few problems as long as you don’t limp-wrist them. I have two Glocks, and as long as I’m feeding them factory ammo, and I hold them correctly, they almost always (99%+) go “bang” when I mash my boogerhook down on the bang switch.
The number of failures to feed & fire I can count on one hand in 10K+ rounds on two pistols. One of those was due to a primer being mashed into the primer pocket sideways on some Fiocchi ammo. The round fed, I pulled the trigger, there was a “pffffffffht” as the powder cooked off and flared out the primer hole and down the magazine, resulting in a pucker factor of 11 on my part.
Result…. that was that. Pffffft. Pucker factor 11. All quiet. Dropped the mag, ejected the round, examined the obvious problem, and got on with my day.
Failure to eject? That’s where the limp-wrist issue comes in, and it becomes more of an issue as the magazine empties.
I clean my G19 when I feel guilty about it. And, being that I don’t like Glocks, I rarely feel guilty about not cleaning it.
C’mon Steve in co…tell us what the other gun was. We can take it. I really have no problem with Glock brand Glocks. I just don’t like the way they feel in my hand. YMMV
Starts with one, ends with one, and has a nine and a one in the middle.
I took two defensive gun classes in the last year and I have not bought a Glock because, in both classes, another attendee had a Glock that kept malfunctioning.
One was a Glock 19 and the other was a Glock 26 (and different attendees). In both cases, we tried different brands of ammo but the problems persisted (and delayed the class).
My Sig and S&W didn’t have any malfunctions.
Those Glocks were the only ones in the class?
And I still see legions of folks insisting that Glocks don’t need lubricant. When asked why, or what made them think so, it’s “because I always heard that”, or “I read it online.”
Wrong. They need lube, even before the first time they are fired. Check the manual, folks; it’s right in there, all you have to do is read it (and do it). Maintenance/Cleaning section.
I mention that because it’s quite possible that it was the cause of the problems Mad Max described, above.
Sometimes, I think that Glock is the Apple Macintosh of guns. They’re so simple to operate that people seem to forget they need maintenance, just like people forget a Mac isn’t impervious to malware.
That said, a Glock shooting quality factory ammo needs so little maintenance that it is easy to see how the myth got started.
Well said I have been to ranges a ton of times and maybe once a visit I see someone having jams with their glock and blaming everything but the gun. I have owned a few glocks and I have had jams with winchester white box in both gen 3 and gen 4 glocks in 9mm. I got an M&P and have yet to have a jam with or failure using factory springs. One time a friend of mine had his M&P out and he cut himself setting up the target. he wiped his blood across the top of the barrel after dunking it in mud and shot a full magazine of 17 rounds of tula with no jams. I tried the same thing with my glock and I had 3 jams that magazine lol.
Now for personal defence I use the M&P9 or my sig 226 because they are the only pistols I have not had jams with yet. However when they do since both have had over 3000 rounds through them I know they just need standard maintenance as for my glocks I sold them, Why keep a pistol I have reliability issues with that only has a 1 year warranty when I can have a reliable pistol I can bet my life on that has a lifetime warranty that is also from a company that is american owned and made. To some people it may not mean a lot but we are in a recession and every purchase for domestically made stuff saves jobs here. I know glock makes pistol here too but the profits go to Austria after operational expenses vs when with a smith more of the profits stay here as the owners are US residents. However now that sig is going to 100% US operations by 2015 I might become an over the top sig fan especially if they transition from a limited lifetime warranty to a full lifetime warranty like S&W and Taurus
Steel cased ammo. Sigh.
Just say no, people. When you need to play “bet your life,” don’t bet on steel-cased ammo. I don’t care if it is in a AR, Glock or exquisite double rifle you’re taking to Africa. Just say no.
If you want to feed that crap through your gun on a range whilst punching paper or ringing steel, well, it’s your gun and your money. Sooner or later, you’ll be spending money to replace your barrel.
But please, don’t ever use the steel-cased crap for carry ammo unless the alternative involves throwing rocks.
What if the alternative is using a Rockchucker reloading press?
I’ve been harping on people here to get interested in reloading for well over a year now.
It has been met with languid sighs of exasperation by the audience at the dottering old fogeyness of yours truly.
I fully and vehemently support people reloading. People who learn to reload well, competently and efficiently end up learning a lot more about guns when they do so.
That said, please don’t shoot lead reloads through a factory Glock barrel.
Yeah, I know about those glock barrels.
Actually I’ve never reloaded anything that wasn’t jacketed. And it has been a LONG time since I reloaded at all.
I am no gunsmith but what does the case have to do with the barrel? I thought the only problems with steel cased ammo was that you can’t reload it and if you let your gun cool off with a round in the chamber then the non corrosive coating will cause the spent case to seize in the chamber.
I don’t know why (yet), but there’s something in the cheap, cheap, cheap nature of steel cased ammo that leads to higher rates of barrel erosion.
It isn’t the steel case. It’s the mentality behind the steel case: Cheapness. Cheap, cheap, cheap.
There are other ways to cut costs on ammo besides the steel case – and one of those ways could be cheap primers, cheap powder, etc. There’s likely something in the powder or primer they use that seems to cause higher rates of barrel erosion.
Are stainless steel barrels a little more resistant to this erosion?
Can’t say, as I’ve not run a structured test side-by-side with steel ammo in both a chro-moly barrel vs. a 416 stainless barrel.
I can tell you that benchrest/F-class shooters report that stainless barrels last longer against throat erosion.
With the cost of a AR15 barrel though (inexpensive), replacing the barrel after you burn it out by shooting steel case through it will pay for itself versus just going all brass (which substantially increases the life).
But to hell with it
I shoot brass for a reason. I dont feel like replacing the barrel every 5k rounds, even if it is cheaper.
I also police up my brass for reloading. Brass left on the ground is money left on the ground, IMO.
Thank you. As usual I learn a lot here at TTAG, one of the main reasons I come here. And I’ve learned to pay particular attention to certain posters with a lot to offer. So I googled “steel cased ammo vs brass”, and found this interesting test by Lucky Gunner, on steel jacketed ammo in Bushmaster ARs.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
Throwing rocks indeed.
And changing barrels twice as often, but with cost savings in ammo to pay for it.
Watched the front of a Glock where the guide rod rests/passes through during firing shear right off
But… The weapon was a high use duty weapon in a high volume firing unit and probably had north of 100K rounds through it during years of service. Not bad givin that background.
You guys say nothing is perfect… I’ve never had a failure to feed with my revolver 😉
I have had a “FTF” with a revolver – it was because I didn’t crimp the case mouth enough in a hard-recoiling setup. The bullets came far enough out of the case to interfere with the carry-up because they were dragging on the frame.
There’s no gun out there–not even an imaginary one made of impervium that isn’t going to break and will always “feed” spec ammo–that cannot be induced to fail with sufficiently crappy ammo and/or user. I certainly wouldn’t blame a malf like this on the revolver; it functioned fine. This is a classic and real case of the ammo being the issue.
That having been said, there was indeed an issue here, and (again) in a gunfight the cause wouldn’t matter. But it’s good news because its cheap to fix bad ammo before the fight.
You’re a tool.
I had a FTF with a Glock once, but it turned out to be an empty magazine that caused the problem.
in 7 years and 8000 rounds, my Stoeger Cougar (that’s a Beretta Cougar made by Stoeger, a Beretta subsidiary) has never failed me, at all. I have shot cheap brass, wwb, mystery reloads, my own lead reloads, crappy tula steel, wolf steel, you name it, it eats it all. Just saying.
I bought some of the TulAmmo BrassMax 9mm ammo and had problems too. I traced it to a faulty taper crimp, this caused failures to feed and extract in my Glocks. Now it is just range training ammo.
Glocks are like Jesus…I don’t mind Glocks, it’s just their followers that get on my nerves
Come on, is it really our fault that we’re so happy with our choice that we want to tell the world, and help prevent others from being led astray into cheap 1911 or Glock-copy hell? 😉
Now I’m no Glock fan but I do respect them & this failure in one isn’t new (just like firing hollow points or oddly crimped rounds in 1911 before polishing the feed ramp) from the sounds of it the ammo is at fault or possibly the mag. Don’t think a mag can cause double feed fail to feed? Try an old black follower mil spec AR mag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Uqtz2asE4
As long as people make excuses for the guns that exhibit this behavior, guns will continue being made that exhibit this behavior.
2500+ rounds through my S&W brand Glock (Sigma SW40VE) and no trouble. I’m not a lucky bottom scraper, my range toys are CZ75 9mm tackdrivers. My Glockish S&W is a home defense tool. Liked it so much I got the SD40VE to keep it company, one for me and one for Mrs. Scooter. Half the Glock price, great grip, good capacity, dead reliable. “But the trigger sucks!” Glocktards cry. Meh… A little practice and it ain’t so bad.
In other breaking news: water is still wet!
Nobody serious actually contends that a Glock is perfect. That’s a marketing ploy for what is undeniably an extremely high quality gun.
Can it fail….ever? Yes. Can it forever prevent YOU from failing it….ever No.
But here’s the thing: it doesn’t matter, not even one whit. Comparing the relative performance of the GLOCK to you in a DGU is like the old joke about not having to outrun the bear, just outrun your friend. YOU are that friend.
hahahaha,
you wanna know why most people (to include glock fans) are actually surprised by malfunctions?
BECAUSE THEY DONT TRAIN ENOUGH.
What tickles me to no end, though, are 1911 guys, “I’ve shot 20,000 rounds through my kimber and haven’t had a malfunction yet!”
well, no, you fat fvck, you obviously haven’t fired that many rounds…
Any gun, to include HKs, SIGs, and Glocks, which are the standard in reliability when it comes to handguns, WILL have a malfunction at one point, whether it is the firearm or ammunition. It doesn’t matter. You pressed the fvcking trigger and it didn’t go boom. something is wrong.
“ive fired 10,000 rounds through my 40 and haven’t had a malfunction!”. hahaha. sure. *rolls eyes*
“Double-feed! Tap, rack, it still doesn’t fire! What will you do? Seriously, what will you do?”
Well you fvcked up by tap and racking following a double feed…
run to the end of the fence and back until you remember what “remedial action” means kid
Funny this popped up as I was putting my comment on another thread, and it turns out to be somewhat relevant here.I’m a middle age guy and had no prior experience with pistols whatsoever before what I describe below.
Last year I became curious about guns and decided to try it to see what the hoopla was all about, in part because it is so easy and accessible in the US in my view (I’m from Europe). It’s fun and kinda addictive, I must admit. My first experience was with a Glock 21 (45 acp, brand new, through an outdoor equipment store), which I chose because the brand is so popular with law enforcement.
I did some reading, practiced dry firing, could keep a penny balanced on the far sight through multiple trigger press, positioned my feet right, shoulders etc. At the range, however, I seemed to really suck. First shot would usually be very close to center, the following ones, all over the place. The trend was low and left, so I thought trigger control, obviously. Worked on that some more, a little improvement but still highly unpredictable placement. Lots of care and concentration into every shot, for rather mediocre results. Strangely, I seemed to get better placement at 25 meters than at 15 (I practice at 8, 15 and 25 meters).
Then one day, I tried a Kimber Custom II stainless, a rental at the range. I could not believe the difference. First, the ergonomics, from the grip, to the balance, to the weight (I believe some weight is better for a 45); then how much easier it was control the light trigger, and how little effort I had to make to place my shots in much smaller groups than the Glock. Then how much easier it was to get back on target after firing. Pretty much every aspect of shooting. That day some law enforcement officers were practicing on standard silhouettes in preparation for a test. The less proficient ones were struggling with their Glocks, with groups extending low and to the left. They left targets behind and I started to use the parts they didn’t shoot at. I could empty an entire magazine at 15 meters inside a 8 inch circle and I was hardly even trying. I mean I was being sloppy, and it still happened. I know that for you experienced guys that may not seem much of a performance but it had never been that easy before. I did not have any malfunction throughout the session, although I don’t the record of that particular rental gun (100 rounds+ FMJ on this occasions).
I do believe that there was something wrong with that Glock (got rid of it). The Glock trigger is horrible out of the box, that’s a given. But I would often get cases ejected in my face, over my head and one fell inside my shirt after grazing the back of my neck on one occasion. The gun seemed to become very inconsistent after 2-3 shots and improved if allowed to “cool down” (I would not venture that this was a temperature issue per se). This could be verified using a bench rest. Placement at 15 meters was very unpredictable and very inconsistent, more so than at 8 or 25 meters. I realized that, despite the fact that it never had a FTF, FTE, FTRB for 1200 rounds plus (in about 6 months), this gun was, in fact, dysfunctioning most of the time.
I don’t carry and would not consider it, except for going in the wilderness on horseback, where I could have to put down a badly injured, suffering animal. I get my kicks of firing nice groups at the range and I don’t need much more than that. My next gun will be a 1911 and I certainly wouldn’t consider a Glock again. Even if another one is likely to work properly, I don’t see any reason to bother with the awful trigger and poor ergonomics when so many good 1911s come out of the box much more satisfying to operate and will work fine with FMJs.
From everything I gathered, the reliability issues may be related to mass producing. 1911s have tight tolerances and must have surfaces shaped right. With modern manufacturing methods, this can be accomplished but occasionally there will be glitches, or problems falling through the cracks: poorly finished surface, slightly wrong angle, rough edge, whatever. In a 1911, it translates into malfunction. In the Glock I had, maybe something similar translated into dysfunction. The Glocks are more reliable probably because they are more “loose” in every aspect. It allows them to always fire even when not actually working properly. I’m sure if I get a good 1911 it will be much more fun and satisfying than a good Glock. I’m ready to pay an extra 200 bills for it.
My 2 cents (that I can balance on the far sight pretty well)…
My issue Glock I bought police trade in Glock 17 that so used abuse that it should been sold to public. My first mistake was not checking Glock 17 out well enough at gun store know slide release was so well worn out on it would hold open slide on last shot of mag. Second mistake I bought second gen Glock 17 witch just use two pins hold gun together so went replace worn out slide release nobody had them they just had slide release for 3 pin third gen Glocks. I have owen both Glock 19 and Glock 17 that fail useing Tula 9mm ammo but be fair I have had other handguns have few issues with Tula 9mm ammo to. If handgun not take care of well enough used abused for long enough time does matter who makes it or what made out of it can stop being reliable safe that can even happen with Glock. I remember time in 1990 when work indoor gun rang guy brought rust glock 17 in holster that slide rust shut frame gun all metal parts in gun where rust destroy. When ask guy how did Glock 17 get in this shape he explain he heard you could take Glocks 17 in to ocean that Navy seals do all time they never need field strip or clean there guns after they been in ocean. So what fool do he took Glock 17 in ocean scuba dive with him. Once done scuba dive with Glock 17 he did dry off he did take part clean he shove in to leather holster wet salty sea water all over where rust in leather holster. Than went home shove in foot looker for few months when pull out rust so badly he could get Glock 17 work at all. Indoor rang pay about $50.00 dallors for rust Glock spent two days getting all rust parts spring out gun make work again frame slide where still use able. My point is any damn fool can use abuse there gun no longer reliable if use cheap ammo expect thing happen with ammo match price.
What?
Umm, Patrick, hate to tell you buddy, but your post was pretty much un readable. Maybe take some English composition classes.
i understood you perfectly well. perhaps you can do some movie reviews?
Every single firearm I own has experienced a malfunction as some point in it’s life. Big deal. It’s a mechanical object, and has an expected fail rate. Anybody here who claims to have a firearm that has never malfunctioned needs to go shoot more than 50 rounds through it between cleaning.
I designed and ran a 37 round shotgun stage at a 3 gun match last weekend held in a dustbowl. I watched many “never jam” shotguns choke horribly by being expected to run 40-50 rounds through them in 3 minutes or less. Oddly enough the number one offender there was the JM Pro 930, I however saw several SLP’s go down, a couple VersaMax guns, the Rem 1100, and several poorly built Saigas choke all over the stage too. There were a few Benelli guns with minor issues, but didn’t need to be swapped out while shooting the stage.
If your gun has “never had a malfunction” I’m calling bullshit. Go shoot your guns, and all of them will at some point experience a malfunction. Anybody saying “This gun has never jammed” is selling you something, or he’s never shot it enough for that statement to have any meaning.
My first semi auto handgun was a glock 17 almost 5 years ago. Got it new and thought it was the worst gun ever. Ftf’s, fte’s, stovepipes(even though I didn’t know they were called that then) since I was still new to handguns I though glock was just middle of the road gun. Sold it for almost what I had in it and ended up with 2 hi points a 40 and a 45. That I never had a problem with. If I knew then what I know now I’d have kept the 17 as a malfunctioning conversation starter at the range. When it comes to the 45acp round I’ll stick to my 1911 plus I hate clocks grip angle. My 40 will stay my m&p but I will be getting another g17 for 9mm especially now since I got a sub2000 that uses the same mags.
I’m not sure what other issues may have been at play here, but Glocks certainly misfeed or fail to fire in other ways just like any gun. That being said, that Monarch ammo is terrible stuff…I had 3 or 4 FTFs with it from one box…never bought it again.
I’ll bookmark this page for future reference.
If any of my Glocks ever malfunction, I’ll come back here and let y’all know about it.
But what every Glock shooter should know is that bad ammo, lack of cleaning/lubrication or limp-wristed shooting can make any semi-auto handgun malfunction.
Hold on let me put this into perspective for you. Any glock can jam if limp wristed. I carry a g23, and i can purposely jam it at will. But held with the proper grip, even a less than proper grip it runs flawlessly 99% of the time. I would say it’s about as close to a revolver as any semi auto can get. Say what you want, I own other pistols but will only trust my life with one.
A Glock never malfunctioning? What do you think it is, an H&K? /sarc
Never seen a glock not go bang but I have seen 2 go kaboom (40 slow and weak). I own several glocks
And while I would prefer not to have to bet my life on anything, I go out in the world every day with a glock by my side.
Did he call it Mon-arch? I’m having a hard time taking this dude seriously, he looks and sounds like a stereotype.
OK, I admit it. I’m a Glock fan–since 1991. I own six now, am think highly of them. No, they are not perfect. But they’re damn’ simple and VERY reliable IF held properly and fed GOOD ammunition.
Let’s do a ‘magazine/clip’ terminology thing right up front: A ‘JAM’ is a mechanical stoppage that will take tools or partial disassembly to remedy. A ‘MALFUNCTION’ is a non-mechanical stoppage that can be cleared immediately using the proper technique, with neither tools or disassembly.
Glocks RARELY ‘jam.’
This fellow gave me the willies just watching him do the intro; Waving a pistol about in one hand with the slide in battery and a magazine inserted does not give me any confidence in this fellow’s skills.
When he shoots, his offside hand is mostly useless; It’s too far forward, he has his index finger in front of the trigger guard on that flat thing ‘Muricans wanted Euro manufacturers to stick ON there that serves no purpose except to pull the muzzle down, and his isometric tension is poor. He is sticking his offside thumb up in there like another sight, and it’s probably riding on the slide–along with that sticking-up right thumb–slowing it down. Mostly, he setting the gun up to fail.
If you do enough stupid things to a pistol, it will malfunction. If you give it some help (hold it properly, give it resistance to recoil against to help the slide function, don’t slow it down with big meat surfaces riding on it, clean and lubricate it properly), and feed it GOOD ammunition (not bargain-basement stuff, or oddly-shaped bullets with the wrong ogive to feed smoothly, or soft-points, or reloads), darn near ANY modern pistol will be reliable.
If your pistol malfunctions (NOT ‘JAMS’!), it is almost certainly your fault and not that of the gun.
I have owen Glocks over ten years lets talk about thing Glock fan boy do not like talk about owen Glocks. Frist lets talk about plastic front site on Glock after time shooting fly off gun down rang happen with Glock 17 I owen. Slide release which Glock does recommend using as slide release because wears out stops working as one before call me lier fan boys go read firearms manual that comes with your gun state there buy way owen Glock 17 which that happen to. Glocks are ammo sensitive I work two indoor gun rangs hate Glocks because Glocks did work well reload ammo or cheap ammo with hard primers would cause them all kinds of issues weak strikes on hard primer. Yes I have seen happen spent tens years working in two indoor gun ranges watch happen see happen with my Glocks. Special oiling cleaning needs with your Glock yes Glock need run dry because if over oil your Glock you can cause all kind failure issues working part like trigger return spring can break make Glock non functional . Hey Glock fan boy Glock have had recalls like ever one else on gun market. Those that train well with there Glock s like policemen have issue with them to as I was remind buy friend my mine that use his is daily as cop until 45gap issue happen police department change from Glock some one else . Do hate Glocks no do not I have owen them do I think of them most perfect handgun out there because there is no such thing. Yes I think there alot other handguns like Glock that better than Glock these days what Glock does see that in number police departments go away from Glock. That my opinion if like Glock good for you under stand like all thing made buy man not perfect.
Patrick, others have mentioned your writing style, so I won’t bother. However, Glocks do not HAVE a ‘slide release.’ They have a ‘slide stop.’ That little lever on the left side is a device to hold the slide open, and nothing more. The other gadget vis. the slide is a ‘slide lock.’ It’s for taking the gun apart.
Since the days of John Browning, the little lever that provides slide hold-open for pistols is a ‘slide stop.’ Not a ‘release.’ People who use the slide stop as a ‘release’ are abusing the gun and making it more likely to malfunction. Glock factory people get rather pissy when you call that little lever a ‘slide release’ and use it as such. So does S&W. And Colt. And SIG-Sauer. And everybody else. Frankly, I’d be happy if pistols didn’t even HAVE a ‘slide stop.’ It’s a nuisance.
Glocks do prefer being ‘dry’ as opposed to ‘wet.’ However, they work REALLY well if lubricated properly: a lube smear on each rail, a drop spread on the barrel, a smear on the inner slide surface where the barrel hood runs, a smear on the locking block, a tiny drop on the connector.
I can reassemble a Glock without the trigger return spring in place; It will still fire. Repeatedly, if one manually returns the trigger. It will fire with a broken recoil spring and guide. Once. It will fire without an extractor, extractor plunger, spring, or bearing. It will fire without a safety plunger and spring.
That’s pretty reliable.
“That little lever on the left side is a device to hold the slide open, and nothing more.”
Are you sure about that, sport?
“People who use the slide stop as a ‘release’ are abusing the gun and making it more likely to malfunction.”
They are also following the instructions in the owners manual included with every Glock.
The Glock “Instructions For Use” factory manual I have in front of me is dated 03/11, and this is a direct quote from the Loading and Firing section (pg. 23 of this version of the manual):
“After the last round has been fired, the slide remains open. Remove the empty magazine from the weapon by pushing the magazine catch (19). Insert a new magazine and then either push the slide stop lever (27) downward, or pull the slide slightly backward and allow it to spring forward.” (Bold emphasis mine)
You might want to check the intended use for those other pistols too; I don’t have a manual for any of them handy, but I do know it would be rather wasteful to groove/checker the top edge of a lever (usually done to give a better grip or prevent slippage of whatever part of the human body it is coming into contact with), if the true intent was that the user should never touch/use the top edge to release the slide, only touch the bottom (when manually locking the slide to the rear).
Yes, I’m sure. Ask an instructor or an armourer from any manufacturer. That little lever with the grooves is there for people who don’t know any better. By the way, you made my argument FOR me: “Slide STOP lever.”
Anything else, Sport?
You’re wrong. If it was only meant to hold the slide open, and not to release it, it wouldn’t be grooved/serrated; it would be an internal part that you couldn’t push on. He quoted the manual of the firearm. They aren’t going to tell people to do something that would be considered abuse.
Actually, I am an instructor and certified armorer for several different brands. I have an older Glock Armorer’s Manual handy, too, and I don’t see any reference to what you said anywhere in it.
And you didn’t address the factory instruction manual being in direct conflict with what you stated, above, either. Do you really expect us to believe that the company would put a procedure in the manual that would cause damage to the pistol when used as directed?
The part is used that way because it was designed to be used that way. If they didn’t want it to be used that way, they could have located it somewhere else on the pistol. But they didn’t; they put it right where the user could reach it quickly and easily. There’s no need to hurry if the only thing you use it for is locking the slide to the rear; it could be on the bottom of the dust cover, or, heck, it could be an internal-only part like is used on Walther’s PP-series pistols, with no external user interface at all.
What I have heard from many factory reps, is that the slide stop (or slide release, for other manufacturers; they built it, they can all it whatever they want, including “George”) should never be used to release the slide on an EMPTY chamber. THAT is what can cause damage. With rounds in the magazine, closing the slide with the slide stop lever actually is a “softer” close than the pull-and-release method, as the slide travels a shorter distance, and therefore strikes the barrel with less energy. It’s also a “softer” close than what the pistol suffers when it is being fired, so if being fired is “abusing the gun”, then I guess we are all guilty.
Yes, as you said, this can cause or contribute to a failure of the slide to close completely, especially if the pistol is dry, dirty, or the ammo is out-of-spec. In reality, I’ve never seen a pistol that would load correctly with a pull-and-release, but would NOT load correctly with a slide-stop-release of the slide. I bet you haven’t either, because the difference between the two is miniscule. Tiny. Almost unimaginably small.
Next time you go through Armorer training, ask them why the user/instruction manual says to use the slide stop as a slide release, and if it is truly damaging, how so, so you can explain it to your students. Because when you stand in front of a class and tell them to disregard the factory’s instruction manual, it really doesn’t help your credibility. At all.
John your funny if you slide stop fail work your slide fail hold open on last shot which mean well not hold open your slide on last shot which what meant to do. If your return spring break on your glock no longer working semi out trigger well not reset self on owen make no longer semi auto . John if your doing ever thing you say your doing with you Glock than your being stupid with it. John I bet you know how many rounds you shoot in your gun ever time you shoot when slide does lock back on your last shot . Because you know many rounds you put in your gun . I watch guy like you John with Glock 19 shoot hand at one indoor gun rang I work at he thought put ten rounds in his Glock 19 after shoot ten round his slide did lock back. So instead pull slide back checking if there round in chamber he thought gun broker went take part sure enough he put eleven rounds in Glock 19 shot him self in hand soon pull trigger take gun part. What happen if guy pull mag out lock slide back on gun with work slide stop he would have 9mm hole in hand for rest of his life John. So John you fire your Glock with all safty parts remove from Glock I sure hope you do not go court have face judge explain why you did so. John please do not be fan boy explain why Glocks are reliable because you made case worst not better.
So accord John you can fire Glock once with all part broken missing yet. Sure the Glock well fire it well not eject with out extractor, extractor plunger, spring, or bearing so after fire gun find some way get case out chamber after gone off before shoot another round in that Glock. So far this does sound like reliable semi auto Glock John. With out trigger return John your Glock no longer have reliable semi out specialy if have return trigger manually fire gun. John reason all most all handguns have slide stop has little do with cleaning more do safety because most people lose track amount round fire in there handguns forget how many rounds they where shoot in them when slide stop lock back on last round. Show most people that are out round there nothing chamber if did have slide back you would know if your handguns was unload unless pull slide back check hold open make sure because did have slide stop do it. Second alot faster load shoot handgun if slide back all have do put fresh mag in your gun release slide buy press down on slide release or pull slide back let go.
Look all Glock fans boys slide stop or slide release meant hold open your slide of your handgun so you do with out have to your slide with your hand it all,s hold open slide on last round when shoot your gun. If does hold open your slide on last round your shooting or fail work when engage gun on mean guns broken. Next time all go through poilce train with Glock you can ask with they teach police release there slide with slide stop. Your right old Armorer training instruction manual does tell them about not use slide stop release your slide how ever new one does so Armorer teaching class. The reason there slide stop on Glock simpe people owen gun with out them forget rack there slide check if there unload it. On Glock that can be issue there lots report of people owen Glocks who shot them self with there owen gun claim there where unload when ask did drop mags from gun or lock slide back on there Glock with slide stop . All most ever case they said knew guns load when take part gun shooting them self with. So that why there slide stop on your semi auto so you can slide back see have empty chamber because easyer than do than trying hold slide open hand welling pulling againt recoil spring of your gun try push slide closed. Any who owen handgun with out slide realse can tell how much pain is hold open slide with out slide stop on semi auto handgun any been real firefight not video game one well tell lot faster use slide stop on your handgun than pulling slide back release reload semi auto. Glock trolls nice try stick some easyer.
People do not use there slide stop on the unload Glock do not check see if there Glock unload when go clean there unload gun end up shoot them self with them soon pull trigger on there unload gun which happen many time report here many times. If you have some one has weak hands harder pull slide back on there semi auto than is push on slide stop realse slide on there gun. If was such issue with Glock trolls they would be here defend there Glocks over matter,
Glocks fail more frequently than glock owners would care to admit. Granted glocks seem to have a higher chance to fail with the more after market parts the owner installs. The upgrades my glocks have are night sights, as well as texturing jobs
Glocks are the hondas of the gun world. Mythical properties of impossible reliability. Even tho I see just as many hondas broken down on the road or ruined in the junkyard as any domestic.
Just another reason to buy an American Gun, the iconic Beretta M9, made in Maryland, They are not made of cheap plastic!
Original M9 pistols were all-metal, except for the grips. While I don’t own one, I’m told that current M9 models have several all-plastic or plastic-coated parts, including the recoil spring rod, trigger, safety lever, mag release, and magazine follower/baseplate. Also something called the hammer cap (?). The recoil rod was originally solid steel, then changed to a hollow steel tube with pinned-on head, and now it’s plastic.
I’d rather have a pistol that was designed to use polymer parts from the beginning, than one that has suddenly begun using plastic parts where metal used to be standard. The official story is that it was done for weight savings, but I’m betting the bean-counters were heavily involved, too.
Glocks are made in Smyrna GA. You must be like 3 guys on the planet that doesn’t know that.
Glocks are made here too. Beretta is Italian.
I have a glock 23 gen 4, failure to feeds are very common. I had a glock back in the 90’s that you could not make jam. The old glocks would eat whatever you put in them, dirty or clean you could even fire them under water. But that was then and this is now. Today the beretta is the way to go, I have a px4 storm 40 with thousands of rounds sent down range, lead bullets, fmj, and hp, eats them all and not one jam. Like it or not that is the way it is.
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