Some ideas are just too good to pass up, no matter how much the taxes are to get it done. Today’s 0bscure object of desire definitely falls into that category. A firearms genius in Florida has designed this $2,000+ Kel-Tec SUB-2000 rifle to be a suppressed SBR that not only folds in half, but also has a rotating, free-floating rail to allow you to mount optics on it and still fold the gun. This isn’t just a one-off project gun, either. It’s going into production with a little help from some Sunshine State firms . . .

Over 2000 sub-2000, c Nick Leghorn

Kel-Tec is working with the designer to manufacture specially-designed Sub-2000 receivers and stocks to fit the customized design. Red Lion Precision is manufacturing a special run of their SUB-2000 rails with a larger ID and OD to allow for the attached silencer to be free floating inside the tube. And there’s already a distributor lined up to sell these things.

The catch: this is a two stamp gun. You’ll need one stamp from the ATF to transfer the SBR rifle and one more for the silencer itself (since it isn’t pinned and welded in place). As such, the market for this gun is geared more towards SOT holders who only need to submorm 3 to the ATF. And apparently that market is sufficiently large to justify this thing. But I’m guessing that plenty of those without an FFL might want one too. Expect pricing and availability sometime around the SHOT Show.

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57 COMMENTS

    • The Kel Tec doesn’t use model glue. Just Phipps head screws, and some Loctite on the front sight which you’re going to dump anyway.

      If you haven’t shot a S2K, you don’t know what you are missing. Mine is in .40 S&W and has way more reach than any pistol.

      The version shown here would be the ultimate Urban CQB gun,.

      • Well i disagree the PTR-51P. PDWR is a pistol by PTR modeled after MP5 but chambered in .308, you can use arm brace as a stock like very short battle rifle. So believe it beats keltec in reliability, quality, reach and take down power. Therefore better in every catagory.

  3. Unless the rail has some odd internal diameter I’d imagine they could sell quite a few of the base SBRs for those with their own pistol cans.

      • Since the prosecution knows I am not guilty they probably haven’t presented anything to the grand jury. The judge n prosecutor in my case are known for violating the law and constitutional rights. The better question to ask is if I had an illegally possessed silencer why hasn’t the federal government charged me? If I committed a felony why do I still have a firearms license?

        • The wheels of justice are slow to roll. Plus, they are looking to build a case against you, see exactly what all you do in your online business, probably have a little survailence on you to see your daily activities and one night the Brentwood SWAT or TBI SWAT will be banging down your door. They probably read your online postings too. We just might see you on News 2 sometime soon. Seriously Leo… you may be a small fish but the guv’ment has been very heavy handed with others on less evidence. And calling the judge a ‘Dumbass’ on your website will not help your case. Just sayin’.

  6. Why not just work on actually getting the products you already make on store shelves, kel tec? I’d have bought a sub 2000 ages ago, but they’re impossible to find. I gave up and bought a cx4.

    • I think you’re probably better off.

      If I wanted to invest in a suppressed carbine I would get a 9mm lower from Double Diamond LE Supply… not a plastic gun that is designed to break in half. Sub-2000 might be a good truck gun or something, but I always thought it was hideous.

  8. This is a textbook example of what is known in Maine as “Perfumin’ the pig.” The manufacturing technology required for this type of product is similar to that of a bumper jack. What did it cost to manufacture a Sten gun?

  9. What kind of suppressor does it come with? If it is pinned and welded, what happens if you get baffle strikes or have to replace parts? (This is an honest question as I don’t know much about integral suppressors…)

  10. Having owned a keltec sub2k. This is a neat idea but one I passed up on.

    The Leonidas is much quieter and probably cheaper if you roll your own. And this is coming from the president and CEO of the 300BLK haters club.

  11. Red Lion should just move to Cocoa Beach since it seems all their products are meant for Kel-Tec products. Make the pivoting handguard a standard accessory straight from the factory.

  12. I hope on the 2K$ version that they don’t have a hacked-down AR buffer tube jammed over keltec bolt tube so they can run the sliding stock they have pictured. You can see the hacked buffer tube on the last pic.

  13. “You’ll need one stamp from the ATF to transfer the SBR rifle and one more for the silencer itself (since it isn’t pinned and welded in place). ”

    Simple solutions seems to me, then, is to offer a pinned version a la Sig MPX (when they finally hit the street in 2047).

    • We still don’t know how sig got away with that. Many many many suppressor companies have been wanting to do this and got shot down by ATF. Heck we had an idea similar to that but in 5.56 back in 2010 I believe.

  14. really cool looking and I’ll be honest, I want one, but something about purses and sows’ ears come to mind…

  15. This is just wrong. Not wrong like a deadhead sticker on a Cadillac, but more like spinner rims on a minivan. But yeah, I’d shoot it, too, if a buddy showed up at the range with it.

  16. Why not pin/weld the suppressor in place to save one tax stamp? And do these exist in .45 acp (due to the subsonic nature of .45 acp)?

    • Just because the suppressor is pinned in place doesn’t make it a one stamp gun (ok there are a few machine guns like that but nothing in the last 25+ years has been approved that way). The barrel+stack has to be longer than 16″ for it not to still be an sbr.

  18. “Some ideas are just too good to pass up, no matter how much the taxes are to get it done.”

    I submit that the moral calculus re: paying taxes is similar to that re: giving a bucket of gasoline to an 8 year old. At the very best, it will be wasted. More likely, great damage will be done with an otherwise productive resource.

    Shame on you. Thanks to your indulgence, the government now has several hundred more dollars to use to harass me.

    • Agreed. Not that this isn’t gun porn in its purest form but I wouldn’t do it for the simple reason that if and when gun-grabbers get their way – everyone with tax-stamped gear will be at the top of their list for round-ups and confiscations.

      Critical thinking people. It’s free and far more effective than any gun.

  19. I could be wrong but it looks like there are much better choices that are about the same size but use a folding stock instead of a folding barrel.

    Especially if you are going with 2 stamps.

  20. It may not be fair, but I just can’t shake the “Kel-Tec is junk” attitude I have toward them and their products. I’ve known too many people who have had too many problems with their weapons.

    • In their defense, they are really good at fixing their crappy pistols and whatnot in a timely manner. I only had to send my PF9 back three times before I gave up on it, left it in my junk drawer and started carrying my G26 full time. The PF9 was such a good idea in concept; slim, light, easy to conceal… but I couldn’t justify carrying around a heater that jammed constantly 🙁

      Admittedly, their guns aren’t the greatest, but they have some good ideas, sadly they’re often poorly executed…but then again, their stuff is cheap as sh*t and if it doesn’t work for you, you can always just toss it in the junk drawer or sell it.

    • One man’s experience: A Sub2K in 9mm and a P32.
      Neither one has ever failed. We actually pulled out the Sub2K at the range on Sunday, shot 100 rounds through it without issue and it’s been over a year since it was last shot. Stored with no cleaning from the last time and no lube beforehand Sunday.

      I would gladly trust my life to either one, but I do have newer, more powerful firearms that I use more often.

      • Glad to hear it. I’ve got no hate for Kel-tec, they’ve done alright by me. Their customer service is awesome. They could benefit from better product development/production IMO though. Sub2ks are unicorns in FL. I’ve tried to get one for a long time and no one has them…I’d love to play with one, in particular, the one mentioned in this article, but I don’t see that happening any time soon.

  22. So I love the sub 2k but I feel like spending $2k is a bit over the top. however it would be the only suppressed carbine that folds in half… that I know of any ways…. but then again, what would the point be to suppressing a gun like that? My vote spend the money on the rotating for end and hang all your ninja gun gadgets off your sub 2k and be happy no need for a suppressor.

  23. Last time I read that much prejudiced gun snob POV dribble was about a Hi Point 995 I built up with $700 worth of accessories and paint. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. If the gun runs reliably and has the feature set required by the operator I think it’s a winner.

  24. I like the idea of this build. And for starters I’d LOVE to get an M4 style buttstock on my sub 2000. Please tell me what the buttstock is on the pictured gun, and how this was done. Or, if it’s someone’s trade secret, then… who can do it for me?

  25. I wouldn’t mind if Kel tec made some kind of an AR stock for the regular sub 2000 you can build up these things so they look half decent but the back end of it OMG Help !

    Edit: LOL i didn’t see what Gary said but yeah we want a decent stock lol

  26. WOW how much farther off was this article to not only the real thing, the KEL-TEC Sub-CQB, in 2020. also any version that didn’t come to fruition in between. price (more than price the released) , style (not an SBR), contractors (um no), number of tax stamps needed (only 1 needed) etc… great idea back then, and maybe it influenced or inspired KEL-TEC Industries to come out with this new Sub-CQB, who can say.

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