OSD: Gun Control Is a 1911, Gun Rights Are a GLOCK

By
Dan Zimmerman
-
67

 

[The video above is] a good watch generally, and we want to zoom in on a particular aspect. At 6:54, Isaac explains why Glock’s critical innovation that changed the entire industry is … the slide stop.

Hang on. The slide stop is a tiny piece of metal, and shouldn’t affect a gun’s overall design or manufacturing process.

But that’s exactly the point. Isaac points out that (with some exceptions), pistols pre-Glock were designed such that the slide stops had to be robust and precisely machined. That single design choice — requiring tight tolerances for the slide stop to work properly — cascades into the engineering and manufacturing steps. It limits the materials you can make the slide stop from, creates a pretty high minimum time to produce the part, and requires tighter quality control.

Multiply that by every part in the gun and you end up with a gun that’s expensive and slow to build, and difficult to repair. And forget about iterating quickly on the design for future updates.

So what Isaac identifies is that Glock’s magic wasn’t in making its precision great. The magic was in making its precision not matter. Stamp your slide stops out of sheet steel. Make the frame out of plastic. Make the design so good that those things don’t matter.

Execution matters, but the best designs can tolerate a lot of faults in execution. If your design is great but impossible to execute well, then your design isn’t great.

This is a mirror for gun rights and gun control. We all start from the premise that if someone’s trying to hurt you, you have a right to stop them. Gun control then delegates that right to the police. But for that to work, every step of the process has to go right.

One bit of imprecision — one violent person who isn’t apprehended, one 911 response that’s too slow, one police officer being too quick to shoot at a shadowy figure in your home — and the overall system stops working for you. Whereas gun rights are the opposite — everything else can fail you, and gun rights still work as a backstop for your self-defense. Flamewar version of this analogy: gun control is a 1911, gun rights are a Glock.

— Open Source Defense

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67 COMMENTS

  1. Interesting analogy, but I prefer the basic version we got from our founders: rights belong to the individual; allowing the government to become as large and powerful as it has was a mistake and its power should be trimmed substantially.

  2. Oh cripes! Now dacian is going to have another of his ignorant false analogy ‘manual safety orgasms’ of copy-n-paste and stupid all over the comments section.

  4. My friend, Barley, is militant about readiness to defend family, self, and property. EVERY room in his house has a hidden handgun, in addition to the one always on his belt. He has also adopted my practice of pajamas with pockets and a .380 in a pocket holster in his strong side pajamas pocket. Barley also trains/practices almost daily…and, at 70 years old is impressively strong and fit. The point? Gun rights (the ‘Glock’ in the above essay) lay the foundation for defense, but, are not defense. Readiness is defense. Barley is one of the most ready people I know.

  5. While I don’t hate the T Rex kid I wondered why I should take advice from a teenager with no experience in self defense. Or life. Or being a grownup. I guess he’s a big boy now. Sure got a bump from Tucker🙄I do “get” my lowly Taurus’s are near clones of GLOCK©.

    • Do your “lowly” Taurus’s go BANG every time you pull the trigger? All three of mine do, just like my two Glocks, my S&Ws, Rugers and all of my other firearms…

  6. This is likely the worst article I’ve ever read on TTAG. Glock wasn’t innovative with their slide stop. MIM slide stops were a thing and being incorporated into production lines of pistols before the Glock was ever invented.

    There is some degree of slop in every slide stop I’ve ever seen on a GI 1911. Glock was something of a trailblazer in making polymer guns affordable to the masses.

    overall 1911s and Glocks are both great guns, and they are both for gun rights….only “well intentioned” politicians and their irresponsible and naive voting base are gun control.

    • There is this childish millennial/zoomer mentality spreading today with the younger 2A newcomers that 1911 owners are “Fudds” because of their not completely abandoning proven and tested technology for whatever modern Wunder Tupperware is the rage at the moment. This is categorically false.

      Fudd = ANYone who says they, “support the 2A, BUT…”

      There are no other legitimate definitions for Fudd in the 2A community . These Glockenkinder are simply stupid and immature. Stupid and immature is nothing new. Folks keep making new kids all the time and usually it takes 30-40 years for them to grow up and eventually flounder for a clue. This has been the case for time immemorial. The true question is are they so damaged and scarred that today’s children will never grow up?

      • Fudd has shifted in application. I remember it was more fun owners that saw no purpose for pistols let alone assault rifles unless used for hunting and being all for every gatekeeping hoop to jump through and expense paid for the process to be exclusive. So you know common sense European laws.

    • “This is likely the worst article I’ve ever read on TTAG.”

      Feel free to not to ever read TTAG again, if your ‘tender sensibilities’ were so offended.

      • Rodney it seems the pot has met the kettle when it comes to tender sensibilities. Feel.free to.do whatever you wish including a full sit and spin.

  7. Every semi-pistol I own the barrel rocks back (Sam Colt?). I’d really like to try something different i.e. Beretta’s Px4 that has a rotating barrel, not sure it that’s a good thing for a south paw. Can you get one that rotates to the left?

    • “A gun in the home makes a homicide 200% more likely and a suicide 400% more likely”

      False

      basic math

      around 400 million guns in homes in the U.S. do the math. With 400 million guns in homes, the likely hood is less than .0001% for either of those. Comparatively, If each of those homes with guns had a shower, a person is more than 130% more likely to slip and fall in the shower and die as a result

    • dacian, that is PURE UNADULTERATED BULL SHIT! There are millions of guns in millions of homes with NO deaths due to the discharge of a firearm. Again, you are LYING like a rug. Again, you post another Leftist propaganda piece from an anti-gun advocate. And please don’t eve try to tell us that ABC is “pro gun”.

    • ABC News reports on guns mislead Americans

      “So what about gun accidents for little children? They are extremely rare. For all children under age 10, the Centers for Disease Control reports that for 2010 (the latest year available) there were 36 accidental gun deaths, and that is out of 41 million children living in the United States.

      “In addition, two thirds of these accidental gun deaths involving young children are not shots fired by other little kids but rather by adult males with criminal backgrounds. Unless you send your child to play over at a criminal’s home, your child is exceedingly unlikely to get shot.

      “Indeed, if you worry about your child’s safety, you better check into other dangers lurking around the playmate’s house: a swimming pool, chemicals and medications, bathtubs, water buckets, cars and bicycles.” — https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/abc-news-reports-on-guns-mislead-americans

    • And this is coming from a totally liberal ABC. Of course. I believe every word they say, don’t you. 🤮🤣🤪🤮🤮💩💩

    • If gunms are dangerous why do you own so many dacian.
      Are you somehow better qualified to own a firegunm then the rest of us.
      What makes you so special?

  9. I recently saw something new on a 1911… a serial numbered slide stop. Where, you ask ?
    On TV’s ” CSI – something”, during the opening credits no less. Kind of made me wonder who dreamed up that shit, where lil ‘d gets all of his ” gun facts ” from.

    • you haven’t heard … lack of a second number means a law abiding person is a criminal.

      The US democrat party is the only political party on earth that actually tries to create criminals from law abiding citizens by trying to define in a law that lack of a serial number is a crime.

  10. What the heck comparison is that?

    How about black powder muskets and a bolt action rifle?

    1858 Remington revolver and the 1911?

    Sopwith Camel and a F-22?

    If a custom made 1911 with tighter tolerances, machining, higher level of QC, is the Mercedes-Benz of the gun world, would that make the Glock a Chevette?

    And trying to compare them as examples of gun control vs gun rights? WTAF?

    • And just for FUN,
      If a custom made 1911 with tighter tolerances, machining, higher level of QC, is the Domaine de la Romanee-Conti Romanee-Conti Grand Cru of the alcohol beverage world, would that make the Glock a 30-pack of Bud Light? 😉

        • Not sure what one would call the 9inch 10mm wolf barrel but still waiting on that one.

    • “You don’t need 30 round mags. If you can’t stop whatever you need to with 10 7.62 rounds. You got bigger problems,’ he told his 1.2 million followers.”

      spoken like a true inexperienced idiot.

      I been there several times, not with 7.62, but if I had been limited to 10 rounds my wife and I would be dead. its not really about ‘groups’ in a controlled setting of a firing range Hogg, its about a very chaotic sequence under stress and putting rounds in the bad guy until the threat is stopped and limiting a victim to a fixed number can mean death for the victim.

      Hogg, the bigger problem is you. You actually want victims to die.

      • “You don’t need 30 round mags. If you can’t stop whatever you need to with 10 7.62 rounds. You got bigger problems,’ he told his 1.2 million followers.”

        spoken like a true inexperienced idiot.

        He actually thinks shooting at a stationary silhouette paper target is an actual defense scenario.

        Bad guys trying to harm you do not stand still and pose and say “shoot me with a pretty tight group’ – you moron. In the time it takes to stop them it can be very chaotic, you are under tremendous stress and your body naturally and automatically puts you under that stress as it dumps hormones into your system to enact the natural survival response, time varies, and the amount of rounds varies and so does the number of rounds impacting to stop the threat. There really is no ‘average’ or certain number in reality as its situation dependant, it takes as many rounds as it takes to stop the threat and can’t be ‘pre-predicted’. Limiting that supply of ammo to 10 rounds can result in the death of the bad guy victim

        your embarrassing ‘pretty tight group’ with your ignorant comments … anyone who would belive you is a complete moron. It were as simple as saying ’10 rounds will do it’ the military and police would not be carrying multiple 15 and 30 round magazines…its no different for the ordinary person using DGU, they too are encounting ‘combat’ in that imminent moment and it will take what ever the number of rounds it takes to stop the threat.

        • correction for: “can result in the death of the bad guy victim”

          should have been..

          …can result in the death of the bad guy’s intended victim.

        • That Cruz mass murderer used TEN ROUND MAGAZINE’S to mass murder at yer HS dumbazz🙄

    • You know I am honestly impressed he actually went to the range and shot anything. The grouping sucks but it was likely his first time shooting anything relevant to self defense. With that said it is clear college hasn’t taught him a damn thing related to processing new information or learning from experience and others. So I can only assume this will be the start of his “I am a gun owner but” political career of professional grifting.

  12. RE: “Gun control then delegates that right to the police. But for that to work, every step of the process has to go right.”

    Uh…In reverse should every step in the process go right a Gun Control History illiterate could assume
    Gun Control does have standing…

    The History of Gun Control tells us Gun Control deserves no standing whatsoever and it belongs in a toilet…Think outside the box before inadvertently lending Gun Control any kind of helping hand.

  14. We get it. You don’t like 1911s.

    Fine. you do you, I’ll do me.

    But this is just a stupid, stupid comparison on so many levels it isn’t even a good parody.

    • Don’t have one but they are neat and will likely pick one up eventually, I am just looking more at a USP for various flavors of 45 fun.

    • Flamewar version of this analogy: gun control is a 1911, gun rights are a Glock.

      Mission accomplished.

  15. Ever single Eastern-Bloc firearm is laughing at every single blinkered idiot who thinks GLOCK pioneered anything, let alone loose tolerances and inexpensive materials.

    • *Ever-Y.

      F*** TTAG for still not having an Edit function in their comments. Jesus Christ.

      • they do if you check the box for save your name and email and notify… then you get about 4 minutes to edit

  16. 1911 is gunm control for me because I can shute those better then I can a Glock.
    I suppose it’s what ever you practice with the most.
    I do like the higher capacity of a Glock.
    Light gunms recoil more then heavy gunms, for me JMB got it right in the power to weight to recoil ratio.

  17. I have a Glock. I have a couple other 9mm handguns. Including the old Browning Hi-Power.
    I have a couple 1911’s. Like them all for what I use them for.
    I also have 1 of the high capacity 1911s that showed up several years ago. Can’t think of the brand name at the moment and too lazy to go look at the weapon or look it up online.
    From my point of view, gun control means hitting what you’re shooting at.
    Gun rights means I can own whatever gun I can afford to buy without some brainless twitt telling me what I should or can purchase or own.

  18. THINKING OF 1911 , WISH THEY WOULD START MAKING ALOT MORE WITH SA / DA .
    JUST WISHING . IN ALL CALIBERS .

  19. My Ruger Mark Ii has a stamped slide (bolt] stop, and I believe it predates the Glock 17. The Sig P220 has a stamped slide stop and predates Glock by a decade.

  20. Glock’s main “innovation” was marketing. That and selling to police departments at below invoice pricing.

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