Yup it’s a twofer: a Passively Constructed Negligent Discharge Story of the Day and an Irresponsible Gun Owner of the Day all in one. The media part of the story comes to us without the slightest editorial hesitation from fox6now.com, starting with the headline: Gun accidentally discharges inside of Froedtert Hospital, deputy suspended. We’ll get to that unnamed deputy in a mo. “A person with a legal concealed carry permit brought a gun inside of [Milwaukee’s] Froedtert Hospital Friday, June 27th, but when a deputy tried to confiscate the weapon, it accidentally went off.” I guess it wanted to stay with its owner. Some guns are like that. The JRR Tolkein-esquely-named hospital confirms that . . .
a patient brought a gun inside of the hospital, and the hospital does not allow firearms inside of the building. The patient mentioned he had the weapon on him, and that’s when deputies were notified to confiscate the firearm.
Officials say the firearm discharged as the deputy attempted to clear the weapon, and the bullet struck a wall. No one was struck or injured, and the only people present in the exam room were the two deputies and the patient.
Two deputies? Both named unnamed, apparently. One of which is in deep doo-doo, if the sheriff’s ire isn’t just for the cameras and doesn’t have to pass police union muster.
Sheriff Clarke is upset about the incident and very apologetic to the staff of Froedtert Hospital.
A press release says that Sheriff David Clarke ordered a criminal investigation into the discharge of the weapon by the deputy, and it will be reviewed by the District Attorney’s Office.
“Attempting to clear a firearm in a hospital examination room is unimaginable, rising to the level of recklessness. We don’t train this way in the handling of our own firearms. Fortunately, nobody was struck,” said Clarke. “However, this lack of awareness by this deputy is serious enough to pursue a charge of Recklessly Endangering Safety. This is intolerable.”
Would that be First- or Second-Degree Recklessly Endangering Safety? In either case, what are the odds it’ll be walked down to a disciplinary action of some sort. And the Deputy’s name will be kept out of it. Because police.
Sheriff clarke is one of the good guys. Bet he hangs this deputy out to dry
Need an ammo can filled with sand, kept in the trunk of the patrol vehicles. Open can, point gun into sand, clear gun. High-speed oopsies are stopped cold. Not much you can do about the ringing in the ears, though…
Sand? Really? Cop or no cop, if you can’t safely clear a weapon without discharging it, you have no business handling ANY weapons!
So, you can safely clear every known type of weapon you might find in America? You know where the magazine release is on every version of the HK PSP/P7, and how it works? The pushbutton safety on the slide of a Bren Ten? That you cannot unload the chamber of a 1911A1 with the thumb safety in the on-safe position? That the grip safety must be depressed on certain pistol models to allow operation of the slide when clearing the chamber? That some pocket pistols don’t have an extractor and must be cleared by raising the pivoting barrel with a lever on the frame? That most revolvers, once cocked, cannot be unloaded (cylinder opened to remove the ammo) until the hammer is safely lowered?
Look, most cops aren’t gun enthusiasts, and many gun enthusiasts would have difficulty with all the above items. That’s why cops and military folks have a safe zone for loading/unloading weapons; so if a human, despite their best efforts, makes a mistake, no one gets hurt. An ammo can filled with sand will stop all handguns rounds, and most carbine-type rifle rounds, safely. Because nobody’s perfect. Not even you.
If this was the deputy’s duty weapon, I’d be far more worried about the level of training they had received: but a stranger’s gun? That may even have been modified? Give me, and the deputy, a break.
So, you can safely clear every known type of weapon you might find in America?
I’m not aware of any firearm where you need to pull the trigger to clear it. Field strip, sure, like Glocks and other striker-fired guns. But why would the cop want to field strip the gun?
WELL SAID… Write it up as a NEAR MISS and move on… Learn from it..
Um, yea, pretty much.
Of course, when I’m confronted with a gun which I’ve not operated before, I keep my finger off the trigger.
The other thing I do to prevent discharges is open the action. If you’re ever confronted with a firearm that you need time to figure out how to fully unload, opening the action is a good first move for just about anything that isn’t full auto, firing from an open bolt.
Ralph, you and I both know he probably pulled or “hit” the trigger at some point, but that doesn’t mean it was a deliberate act. Have you ever watched someone try to clear/unload a handgun that they are totally unfamiliar with, and that doesn’t work like the ones they are used to handling? Turning it over in their hands, struggling to manipulate a tiny chrome-plated slide or a sticky cylinder latch? I have, and it’s not pretty.
I don’t normally line up to make excuses for cop ADs/NDs on most days, but in this particular type of situation, I give far more latitude than the normal “I shot a hole in the locker-room/patrol-car/dispatch-office with my duty weapon” situation.
Dyspeptic Gunsmith, even that requires a level of knowledge that most police simply don’t have, in my experience.
…and I’d have to disagree with the “open the action first” approach, too. I always remove the source of the ammunition first (if it has a belt or detachable mag); that way, if there IS a problem later, there’s only one “Boom!” instead of a whole string of them. If you open the action with the mag in place, and you can’t figure out how to HOLD it open (Walther PP series, HK P7/PSP, anyone?), you end up with live rounds falling out of the gun, onto the floor, one at a time, every time you work the slide.
Or they open the slide, check the chamber, let it close (chambering a new round), remove the mag, THEN shoot a hole in something.
that doesn’t mean it was a deliberate act
We know it wasn’t deliberate. That’s why it was a negligent discharge, not a deliberate discharge.
And trying to clear a gun when you have no clue how it works is the definition of negligence.
And that’s why I wonder if they actually have a policy in place that addresses this potential problem.
If the deputy violated a policy designed to prevent this type of problem, then go ahead, hang them out to dry.
If there was no policy, and the deputy HAD to do something with the gun, then they might have been doing the best they could under the circumstances. That doesn’t rate a hang-out-to-dry in my book. YMMV.
If there ISN’T a policy, I bet there will be soon.
Ralph,
I’m not aware of any firearm where you need to pull the trigger to clear it.
How about pull “a” trigger? Here you go; the Sokolovsky Automaster .45.
http://weaponsman.com/?p=15007
Not common, not intended for carry, but otherwise meets your specs. The wide world of guns is weird and wonderful, indeed.
What Ralph said. If you need to touch the trigger to clear a weapon, you are either doing it wrong or the weapon itself is faulty.
Damn! I thought yeah I can clear any gun. Then after reading, I started having my doubts. Thanks, for making me feel a little more humble. However I do know, DON’T PUT YOUR BOOGER PICKER ON THE GO SWITCH! Thankfully he knew to keep it pointed in a safe direction, on purpose or not I am glad no one was hurt. Hopefully this police officer will be riding a desk, but I cannot think of a worse punishment than Hospital duty.
Regardless of how the action is fed, unless it is a full-auto, firing from an open bolt, opening the action disables any round in the chamber from firing.
So… pulling back and locking the slide on a semi-auto works, even if the mag is still in.
Opening the cylinder on a revolver works to prevent firing.
I seriously doubt the patient was packing something obscure. We’re left with two choices that cover the vast majority of CCW pieces, a mag-fed semi-auto and a double-action revolver.
If the cops were carrying the box of sand (as you suggest above), then all they had to do was a) ask the patient for the gun, keeping the muzzle in a safe direction and their booger hooks off the bang switch, b) ask the patient for the holster, c) put (a) into (b) while keeping their boogerhooks off the bang-switch, d) walk out to their car, e) clear the gun outside.
This stuff is simple. It really is. I’ve taught a bunch of kids in 4-H programs how to handle guns. They’ve never had a accidental or negligent discharge. I’ve taught women and men of a wide range of ages how to handle guns. Same deal, no unintentional/accidental/negligent discharges.
First and best thing to do is just keep the finger off the trigger.
There seems to be a problem in LEO training with this finger-on-trigger issue, as is evidenced by how many cops red-leg themselves when putting a Glock (or similar pistol) back into the holster. It is the reason for the NYPD trigger on Glocks.
I’m still going to have to disagree with you, DG. Virtually every clearing procedure for magazine-fed firearms starts with “magazine out” for a reason; getting the source of the ammo out of the weapon makes clearing the chamber easier and safer.
And with your insistence on “locking the slide back”, you still seem to be ignoring that many, MANY autoloading handguns that are popular for carry simply cannot be locked open. Almost all cheap/small .22, .25, .32, and .380 pistols, and a few more expensive ones, fall into this area. Some may even lock back when empty, but do not allow the user to manually lock the action open because there is no external slide lock (an empty magazine is required to active the mechanism internally). Walther PP/PPK/PPKs and similarly built copies fall into this category, I believe.
Combine these two factors with an unfamiliar firearm, and you end up with someone jerking the slide to the rear and pressing/rotating various levers, trying to get the slide to stay back, while ammo is dropping out every time they pull on the slide, making them more concerned and desperate.
Then you have the popular Beretta .22 and .25 pocket autos, with no extractor. An inexperienced user can pull on the slide until they are blue in the face, and they will NEVER clear the round out of the chamber, except by luck if it drops out while they are struggling with the pistol. And in jerking the slide back, they are going from a hammer-down condition, with a 16-18+ pound long double-action trigger pull, to a much short and lighter (6-pound-ish?) trigger pull, making it far more likely to discharge while they are messing with it. No way to lock these slides back, either.
Mag out, THEN clear the chamber, folks; and DON’T depend on the slide locking back or staying locked to the rear — ever.
Here is a question for every one here… why unload the weapon at all? Why not simply take the weapon (finger off trigger) and preferably within its holster then remove it directly to an at least semi secured location like the trunk of a cruiser perhaps? Unless its something knocked together in the shed or something truly vintage it will be safe enough so long as the trigger remains un pulled.
Verifying condition of any firearm is rule number 1. Rule number 2 is if you can’t do number 1 then don’t touch it.
C’mon man! It aint a three lock box. Open it up, look and feel for an empty chamber. When I first brought my pistol home, I laid it on the coffee table. My teenage son picked it up and I said don’t handle it if you don’t know how to unload it. 2 seconds later he had the mag in one hand and the pistol with the slide back in the other hand and the ejected round on the floor. I asked him how he knew what to do. He said a friend of his has an M&P 22. Why can my son who had never seen my gun clear it for the first time and a deputy can not?
I carry my gun everywhere that does not require me to pass through a metal detector. I have had several Dr. appts and if I need to disrobe for an exam, I place it in a small bag with other personal belongings.
Are we not all overlooking the most obvious answer? “Hey buddy, you can’t have that gun in here, do us a favor and just clear it, make it safe and hand it over to us? You can have it back when your doctor visit is over” Or just…”Hey buddy..you can’t have that in here, go put it in your car.”
Yep. I feel pretty confident that I could safely clear just about any weapon you could possibly hand me in America. Keeping my finger off the trigger goes a LOOONG way toward making that happen.
I will say DJ9, that you and I totally agree on one thing. The first thing I’m trying to do is get the magazine out, or the cylinder open. You are certainly correct about the amount of weapons out there that the slide won’t lock back… the Beretta Nano is another.
The cop in question gets no breaks because he was stupid and unsafe. Even if his service weapon was the only gun he’s even seen or touched in his whole life, he should know the 4 rules and always follow them, no matter what. No parts of his body should have been able to pull that trigger on accident/negligently.
Ralph you should be aware that there was a massive recall on Taurus semi-auto pistols in Brazil that would go without pulling the trigger.
The following link goes to a video showing a defective Taurus that will fire without pulling the trigger.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a84_1395261848
When unloading most semi-autos where I can drop the mag, I will do that first, whilst keeping my finger off the trigger.
Since I work on lots of guns, my rule is modified to open the action first, especially on rifles. A Garand has no way to drop the mag. Open the action. A bolt gun might have a blind magazine. Open the action.
The point is, once you open the action, you’ve bought yourself a second level safety that the gun cannot fire with the action open (modulo the open bolt full autos I’ve mentioned), and now you have a margin in which you can puzzle over how to remove the magazine, if it is not obvious (as you mentioned with a couple of the above pistols).
Do we really need something like that? Is it too much to ask people to use some common sense?
In one word…YES! In two words…unfortunately yes.
I think you’ll find that common sense is NOT that common.
What part of “keep your finger off of the trigger until you are ready to shoot” do people not understand?
Now, cue the cop bashing in 3… 2… 1…
Uh… Why would a concealed firearm be subject to confiscation by a person with a concealed carry permit? Is a hospital a prohibited location there? If not, then why isn’t a violation of rights under color of law and unlawful confiscation of property additional issues? “Does not allow” is not the same as a prohibited location.
Hospitals are no go in Wisconsin.
BTW, my wife works at Childrens Hosp in the same large campus, very separate but next to each other.
We were on vacation last week so this is the first I had heard about it.
Never heard about it either. Funny given that my wife, who also works there, usually gets the hospital’s alerts when they put the place on lockdown. Not a word.
Froedert is a posted no-weapons zone. As such, the patient was tresspassing and he could (a) be asked to leave, or (b) could be disarmed. Given that he was there for a medical issue, I’m assuming he consented to (b), although it would have been smarter for him to just go do it himself. Maybe his medical condition prevented that alternative.
What a douche bag. You don’t elevate or otherwise increase the danger of ANY situation, which seems the cops do all the time.
How hard is it to clear a god damn gun anyway?
Revolvers I’m not even going to talk about and virtually every Semi-auto I can think of is the same way, drop the mag and pull the action back and make sure the cartridge has ejected. Pull the slide back again and visually verify there is no cartridge in the chamber and no cartridge is seen.
How tough is that? There was no need to clear the weapon anyway let alone doing it improperly.
Copied from above, because you might have missed it:
So, you can safely clear every known type of weapon you might find in America? You know where the magazine release is on every version of the HK PSP/P7, and how it works? The pushbutton safety on the slide of a Bren Ten? That you cannot unload the chamber of a 1911A1 with the thumb safety in the on-safe position? That the grip safety must be depressed on certain pistol models to allow operation of the slide when clearing the chamber? That some pocket pistols don’t have an extractor and must be cleared by raising the pivoting barrel with a lever on the frame? That most revolvers, once cocked, cannot be unloaded (cylinder opened to remove the ammo) until the hammer is safely lowered? You can unload a Rohrbaugh R9,and a Semmerling LM4 .45?
Look, most cops aren’t gun enthusiasts, and many gun enthusiasts would have difficulty with all the above items. That’s why cops and military folks have a safe zone for loading/unloading weapons; so if a human, despite their best efforts, makes a mistake, no one gets hurt. An ammo can filled with sand will stop all handguns rounds, and most carbine-type rifle rounds, safely. Because nobody’s perfect. Not even you.
If this was the deputy’s duty weapon, I’d be far more worried about the level of training they had received; but a stranger’s gun? A gun that may even have been modified? Give me, and the deputy, a break.
Dude, the cop pulled the trigger. HE PULLED THE TRIGGER. He doesn’t get a break because he pulled the trigger.
100% AMEN CORRECT! The final word in this whole darn thing.
HE PULLED THE MOTHER FREAKING TRIGGER! Are you kidding!? Any person not a LEO that did this would face harsh penalties, the LEO should too.
No matter what, a bullet has to be in the damn TUBE. I know how to verify there isn’t a bullet in a gun before I pull the trigger. It’s like verifying nobody is coming before you pull out in your car. Either someone is coming or there isn’t someone coming. PERIOD. When you ride motorcycles, there are things you make sure of or you die.
I’m 57 years old and have been handling firearms since I was about 16 and NEVER EVER had an accidental or unintentional discharge. NEVER, not once!
I’m not one to make allowances for ignorant fuck-ups. A cop fired a gun in a hospital. I stand by my first comment. What a douche bag.
And further, bringing to light the various firearms that are more difficult to manipulate, like I’m going to say, oh gosh, anyone could make that mistake, isn’t going to work on me.
Yeah, with even a modicum of intelligence you can safely clear ANY gun.
Just don’t pull the trigger.
If you aren’t sure of where the mag release is, you can simply study the gun for a moment, make an educated guess, and carefully try… after all, unless you’re foolish enough to pull the trigger, it’s not going to go off.
If you have to, empty the mag one round at a time, there’s no risk if you don’t pull the trigger.
It really is that simple. If you’re stupid enough to pull the trigger, you might have a (criminally) negligent discharge. As long as you don’t pull the trigger, you’re good!
Go Sheriff Clarke! We need people like him in Cook County,Illinois. Too bad it won’t happen. I can’t comment on stupid cops or irresponsible cc guys. Hang ’em.
Again. You dont have to know the specifics of a gun to keep your finger off the trigger. No excuses. Negligent discharge. No breaks given.
I don’t know how to clear every weapon ever made, but I do know that my finger stays out of the trigger guard and off the trigger until I’m ready to shoot.
There was a video on here a few days ago about a guy who was servicing a customer’s weapon, racked the slide and the gun fired because the firing pin was sort of “stuck”, protruding out – when the slide closed forward the pin struck the cartridge and bang. So, it is possible that a weapon in a state of dis-repair could have been involved and no trigger was touched. Far fetched but possible…
Normally I’m the first to call for an overly aggressive cop’s job, but honestly…. intent is what matters most to me. It doesn’t say anything about this deputy being violent or aggressive. Stupid? Yes indeed.
I’m not sure about his job, but I don’t think he should be charged with a crime. Mens rea should be given more consideration than is usually is.
…and not just for cops.
That is what I meant to imply.
It should be considered for all.
The appropriate mens rea for a “reckless endangerment” charge is, appropriately enough, “recklessness”, i.e negligence rising to the level of willful disregard of the risk occasioned by the action in question. Intent is not necessary. Lots of offenses involve mental states less than “intent” or even “knowledge”.
The bullet struck a`wall, not a floor, why not. Neglagence??????????
I agree. To me it seems like sheriff Clarke’s main issue was his attempt to clear the firearm. Personally I feel it would be irresponsible to leave it loaded. However I recommend while attempting such a procedure one should keep their booger hook outside of the trigger guard.
Let me see here,all the following procedures must be accomplished without touching the trigger at any time: 1-remove magazine, 2- rack slide to the rear and lock open slide, 3- inspect chamber visually and physically to ensure no round remains, 4- place the little orange safety dodad [that you carry in your pocket] in the chamber and ease the slide forward, 5- secure the firearm.
Did I say, KEEP YOUR DAMN FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER AT ALL TIMES enough? Argle bargle.
I am assuming that it was an auto pistol and not a revolver.
You’re not the only one doing a lot of assuming, here…
Definition of negligent: “Finger on the bang switch” when clearing a firearm.
No assumption necessary.
what is most striking to me is that the sheriff has so little faith in his boys that he thinks that them even trying to clear a gun is reckless.
I agree, but that’s what got me thinking that perhaps he’s upset about a policy violation, not the specifics of this particular incident.
Well, I’m sure that the Sheriff is in possession of more information than has been given to the press…
I was in Froedert for quite some time after I was in a motorcycle accident. One of the guys I got to know while I was in there had been shot in the calf–a nice, simple, clean through-and-through. But, man, did this poor SOB suffer. He always looked like he was in terrible pain. Watching him recover truly reinforced my desire to never get shot.
Most people don’t realize how much stuff gets destroyed by a bullet going through even a ‘non-lethal’ area. A piece of metal ripping and tearing its way through flesh, nerves and muscle is going to do some damage. Usually permanent.
If you or I would have done it, we would have been charged with a crime.
Ok.
So is he, apparently.
Nope.
They sometimes do a big show of a trial.
But the worst that ever happens is loss of job.
No conviction.
Hell, a cop can murder a preacher for giving a homeless woman 43$ so she can get a hotel room, and he STILL only lost his job. No criminal conviction.
“The patient mentioned he had the weapon on him”. WHY?
Because he’s in a hospital, and if he was going to be admitted, they were going to find it sooner or later.
I would think that if you’re a lawful concealed carrier and you’re strapped when you’re taken to the hospital as the result of an accident or some sudden onset condition that involved coming in through the ER, it would be best to declare that ASAP upon admission and get out ahead of the issue.
I’m missing something??
The story says that a patient came into the hospital (for what reason we don’t know, maybe he had a hang nail) and declared he had a weapon. When the deputies tried to take it away from him, it discharged.
It would seem to me that he had not said anything about the gun, nobody would have known. I’m not seeing anything about him being admitted, or that he was there for anything other than a routine appointment.
because he finally notice the sign.
But the emphasis in Wis CCW class is the law and not gun handling he shhould have know the restricted places. Hospitals are clearly taught to be no go.
So this is a mixed bag of trouble.
What if circumstances prevent you from storing your firearm before entering the hospital?
thats why the hospital doesn’t allow firearms. because police.
When I was 14 years old, over 40 years ago (besides solid training from my older brothers) my hunter safety teacher told us if some one tries to hand you a gun with out the action open, don’t except it and have them open the action.
The man was not a criminal and could have walked it out to his car. Maybe that was not possible, who knows why.
Is it not now clear that a gun is more dagerous when being mucked with than left alone.
If you’re having a heart attack they usually won’t let you get up and walk outside.
First of all, perhaps the CCW holder was taken to the hospital due to sickness or injury, and was simply carrying his firearm up until his medical “emergency” happened. But could he not have cleared the gun himself? And could the cop, if not familiar with the type of gun have simply asked the CCW person for the procedure? If this was not an adversarial contact w/ the LEO, some simple cooperation between the two would seem desirable..Sheesh.
To be fair, we don’t know the circumstances of the patient in question, who may not have been able to do much in terms of helping safe the weapon.
Not that such a fact would excuse firing it…
Just goes to show you… the safest place for a legally carried firearm is in your holster. Those pistols get crazy when you take them out in hospitals.
I think this horse is officially dead. Stop beating it.
I’ll ask again and I’ll say again:
Are these the hometown heroes whom we’re supposedly relying on to help protect us from a tyrannical federal government, or at least not actively to support said tyranny? Hmm?
NOBODY who carries a badge is your friend. At best, at overly generous best, he’s a currently quiescent future enemy.
Maybe next time they can ask the gun owner to clear his own gun rather than attempt to do so themselves. Or let the licensee keep his legal property, after all hospitals shouldn’t be victim zones like so many other places.
I couldn’t bear to read all the comments, but from what I read, no one acknowledged the fact that had the deputy encountered a firearm he didn’t know how to clear, he could have asked its owner how to clear it. After all, according to the article, he was in the same room at the time… I mean that seems like the easiest solution and would be what I would do if I ran into something obscure.
Yes, that would be a reasonable attitude — for most folks.
For a type-A, take-control-of-the-situation, I’m-in-charge-here person, often seen on police forces (for good reason, in most cases, I might add), and ESPECIALLY one who is trying to do something in front of one of their co-workers? The chance that they would ask for help (read: admit to a lack of knowledge about firearms)? Almost no chance at all, in my experience.
Just. Not. Gonna. Happen.
With all the modifications people perform on guns of all types this could have been a system malfunction. I have seen a carry weapon with a trigger job that lets off at a crisp 2-3 ounces. The idiot who was carrying said pistol was proud off the expertise of the gunsmith (irresponsible idiot) who performed the modification with the full knowledge the weapon was going to be a CCW weapon.
And then you have the amateur gunsmith who modifies their weapon with no idea of what the modification will actually do to the weapon. A hand gun’s systems are interlinked, meaning that it could have been a cascading effect having nothing to do with a finger on the trigger. Also the article never states that the LEO had his finger on the trigger.
Their isn’t enough information in the article to determine the cause of the AD; that’s why there will be an investigation to determine causality. All LEOs are not the “bad guy” and don’t need to be crucified over every accident.
Remember the premise of the law that says “presumed innocent until proven guilty” or do we throw that out the window because the AD was initiated by a LEO. My father was a deputy sheriff, police sergeant, and twice Chief of Police in two different towns. He had stories about many ADs on the range mostly the result of weapon unfamiliarity. Most of these were in training scenarios with the weapon pointed at the berm and the LEO in question attempting to clear an unfamiliar weapon.
None of us know all there is to no about every type firearm ever built. So in this case cut the LEO some slack until after the internal investigation is completed and released to the public.
2 to 3 ounces?
Holy crap. I wouldn’t be involved with a trigger like that for any thing but a competition rifle with a highly experienced shooter (eg, benchrest rifle). And even then, I’m going to recommend a specifically-designed trigger for the purpose (like a Jewell or other).
I’ve had people ask for 2 pound triggers on hunting rifles and I’ve refused.
Most people have no idea how light a 3 to 4 pound trigger, done correctly, really is. A S&W revolver, from the factory, in single action mode is spec’ed at about 2.75 lbs, and most people would agree that it is a pretty light pull on a handgun.
Why “clear” it? Just secure it. Just stow it securely someplace then give it back upon patient discharge… Without playing with it.
Most cops are Beta rabbits pretending to be Alpha males which is why they need a Shield, a Union and a Uniform to hide behind
I see no reason why the deputy needed to clear it period. The deputy could have simply asked for the holster and then re-holstered it and offered to hold onto it until the conclusion of the exam or if necessary log it in at the station to be reclaimed.
Another reasonable idea, but it assumes a holster was being used in the first place.
Although I certainly don’t endorse it, many folks do pocket-carry without any type of holster, especially with the tiny autoloaders, small-frame short-barreled revolvers, and derringers.
The deputy could have asked instructed the concealed carrier to remove his holster with the gun still inside it and left it holstered and not be risking prosecution and/or termination.
See my previous response, above; it also applies here.
It occurred to me that the sheriff crucifying the deputy without the facts may have a chilling effect on cops confiscating a firearm fearing being crucified due to some unknown defect such as the defect that plagued the Taurus firearms in Brazil that fire without pulling the trigger at all.
I would not be surprised if I heard that the deputies begin refusing to disarm licensed carriers due to fear of causing an ND.
The deputy could have asked instructed the concealed carrier to remove his holster with the gun still inside it and left it holstered and not be risking prosecution and/or termination.
Everyone should be aware that there was a massive recall on Taurus semi-auto pistols in Brazil that would go without pulling the trigger.
The following link goes to a video showing a defective Taurus that will fire without pulling the trigger.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a84_1395261848
Yikes.
Wonder if that was a Bubba’d trigger job, excessive wear on internal parts, poor fitting, or something else?
It even fired with the thumb safety in the “on-safe” position, with just a little shake.
I repeat, for emphasis: Yikes!
I think the Sherriff’s point is more on the side of WHERE the deputy cleared the weapon versus the actual clearing of it. And from my viewpoint, if you don’t know how to clear a particular weapon then you don’t. Better to carry it somewhere safe before beginning an experiment that could lead to disaster.
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