“Red Jacket Firearms and the Hayden family, want to bring their fans and general public up to date on the developments recently brought to attention by the tabloids and media. We acknowledge that allegations of child abuse were made against Mr. Will Hayden. This was reported by someone intent on smearing his reputation. The child in question was properly interviewed by child services and an arrest was made, as part of standard procedure, which is done routinely in many states. Mr. Hayden fully cooperated with law enforcement and the child was subjected to questioning, as is also routine at the child advocacy center. She was then . . .
released to return back into the Hayden home, as there was no evidence or indication of any forms of abuse. Furthermore, there has never been a history of abuse or neglect by Mr. Hayden by any of his children and his daughter Stephanie and their entire family, stands by Will to defend him against this false claim. While we have an indication as to who this report may have come from, we are not going to release that information until it has been thoroughly investigated.”
Crazy women will be…crazy.
Maybe if false accusers were thrown in jail for wasting taxpayer dollars or at least were able to be sued we would see less of this.
Allegations of child molestation causes serious character destruction and follow a person until the day they die. That is a lot of impact from something that can be said in spite in less than a minute.
For instance, there is no way that woman in the Duke rape case should have just walked away after all that. If the boys involved in that case were not all individually wealthy enough to afford the lawyers to prove their innocence, they would be rotting in a jail cell or having to report their whereabouts to neighbors right now.
One can sue purely on Defamation of character the trick is proving in court the defaming statement or material was not only false but the slanderer knew it was false at the time of fabrication. This is compounded by CPS’s policy to keep ‘whistle blowers’ anonymous regardless of an investigations outcome. I hope will can beat this and is granted Justice by whatever powers he beseaches.
filing a false police report is a felony.
So True. When my first wife divorced me I was going to a father’s rights help group for child custody. One of the presenters had to go through false allegations, lost custody of his daughters for 5 years and spend over $100k defending himself to finally regain sole custody. I was so fearful that something like that would happen I asked the family psychologist for the group what I should do. He said take your daughter to counselling, which I finally got my former to allow. After about 1/2 year of biweekly sessions, the psychologist I was taking my daughter to asked to see their mother, which she refused. I dutifully sat outside during the counseling sessions and have no idea exactly why she wanted to see their mother.
This story had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the truth about guns.
Has everything to do about guns…
Baseless accusation/s, like these, or in DV cases, subject an individual to undue public scrutiny, temporary loss of rights, and if Mr. Hayden got his bond through a bondsman, he’s out the premium, just because some harridan cried wolf.
Mr. McCain, may I bet that you have one of those “Believe the Children” bumper stickers on your car. A question attorney’s should ask in juror voir dire for SAOC and DV cases.
I hope she’s charged with false reporting, and he sues her ass off.
How do you know it’s a baseless accusation? Because a media consultant said so?
The media consultant is making those statements based on what the police have said thus far. It’s the police, child services in particular, that said there was no evidence. Ergo, it was a baseless accusation.
How do you know it wasn’t a false accusation???
They have found no proof that there was any: It’s innocent until proven guilty, NOT the other way around!!
I have also had a spineless scum bitch make an allegation against me! She told the police that I was beating her, and even punched herself in the face to try to make it look like I hit her.
False allegations are NOT as uncommon as you think!
Wall, you know squat about me or what is on my car, so you may stow your silly attempt at an insult.
In fact, I said, what I said, because indulging in prurient curiosity about these matters and feeding the gossip mill only harms a person who has been false accused, as it appears Mr. Hayden has been.
But, again, this story has nothing to do with the “truth about guns” and I for one don’t much care for gossipy tripe like this on a blog site that claims to be about guns.
Having been in the exact same situation as Will (more or less – see post below) I can tell you that just an accusation can result in the loss of your guns these days – at least temporarily – depending on the state you live in. It could happen to anyone and we should all know how best to interact with the police if they knock on your door. So yes, it does involve the truth about guns, albeit indirectly. PTM, are you aware that in Missouri I could accuse you of harassment right now, get a protective order against you, and you would lose your guns until you can convince a judge otherwise?
Only takes someone’s word to have your rights stripped away and thrown in jail, in DV cases it is gulity until you prove yourself innocent, because everyone will want you to be gulity.
Will has nothing to do with guns???? Lighten up idiot
“I for one don’t much care for gossipy tripe like this on a blog site that claims to be about guns.”
Then leave and don’t come back. Oh, yea. You are the final arbiter of what can and can not be spoken of on AlGore’s Intratubes thingy. Forgot that for a moment.
I agree, and since TTAG is about gun culture, that includes how false accusations about guns and violence can be abused, and likely will, in divorce courts, by disreputable attorneys who abuse the system by encouraging tactics like this story implies in Will Haydens case.
If the current Gun Violence Restraining Order laws proposed in CA and nationally pass, that will be another way to make false accusations, to deprive men of their rights and liberty. This is one of the concerns with those laws as proposed, along with the light to no practical penalty for false reporting.
See DivorceCorp for more about the problems with divorce court proceedings.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DivorceCorp
A tip to young men- dont marry crazy. Ok in bed, but not forever.
These days it is a bad deal for men to marry, just don’t do it. If a woman really loves you she will still be happy to be with you out of marriage. If not, they she doesn’t really love you and best you find out before you end up in court.
Say “I want prenup!” 😉
…. I actually know someone who was unable to see his son because his ex wouldn’t let him. Didn’t do anything illegal or violent, son didn’t hate his father either, father wasn’t a bad person, she just prevented him from seeing his son because she didn’t like him. It’s not even like she needed to hang out with her ex, it’s the son! Women can be so spiteful and spineless to do something that negatively affects the child just to spite someone who isn’t even in their life any more!!!
It does. Owning guns or being in the industry has been used to smear a person’s reputation from disgruntled and money-grubbing ex-spouses, family, employees, etc. This is a good example why laws that require taking away the right to own a firearm from persons even accused of actions (not related to firearms) need need to be defeated.
And this is why I keep my gun ownership and competition sport on a strict need-to-know basis, and this is why I don’t tell my employers about my sport. It doesn’t affect my work performance so there is no need for anyone to know.
Tell the guy in DC who was busted for chunks of lead (black powder sabots) after a false complaint by his ex-wife. And I feel certain that, depending on the laws of his state of residence, Mr. Hayden’s gun rights could be in jeopardy just because of the arrest. (e.g., In MA, the Chief “may issue” to a “suitable” person.)
Actually, Rev. Dipstick, your comment had nothing to do with the truth about guns — just your hubris.
Ralph, don’t you have a movie to review and favor us with more of your rhetorical twaddle?
Speaking of “twaddle,” here’s Paul’s apology to the Synod.
“A Public Apology from Paul McCain”
http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=19851
I think he also owes an apology to us.
Ralph is knowledgeable, friendly, extremely entertaining to both read and converse with and he’s a great asset to our humble little community here. If we want to talk about “twaddle,” any and everything you bring to the table would be one hell of a good start, Rev.
The word of God endures only so long as the good rev sees fit. This guy is the most self-righteous and judgmental individual I’ve seen here on TTAG. Tragic, really, that he has a congregation.
Hey Paul, take a break and go get right with God, you shouldn’t be teaching people the Word and are clearly unfit to bear the Verbum Domini Manet en Aeternum banner.
Sincerely,
A Reformed Lutheran
Matt Richardson: +1 Just please note that PTM is LCMS, not ELCA
An Armed Lutheran (http://www.armedlutheran.us/)
@Tim:
Yea, I noted he was LCMS, not my bone to pick. Mine is an ELCA family as well (or was, prior to branching off after the mass-move to California and other Western states.)
I suffer from a severe deficit of faith, and stopped attending some years ago. My kids attend weekly and sometimes twice-weekly, however. They can decide to continue on their own, when they have grown.
P.S.
I see you’re a GRNC member, greetings from Wake Co!
Maybe it’s only the stopped clock principle, but for once I’m agreeing with Paul. Aside from this guy being famous and himself involved with guns, this has no relevance to the truth about guns and certainly no material effect.
False accusations are sometimes filed, sure, and they can be ruinous. If anything, this guy’s fame gained him entrance into the legal express lane and his troubles have vanished nearly overnight. That’s not at all the experience of regular everyday normal guys. This story is really more The Truth About Celebrities, than anything about guns. Sorry, TTAG, we already have TMZ for that.
I don’t care any more about this guy’s personal problems than I do some gun company executive’s career moves.
Jonathan, this isn’t Guns & Ammo, where nothing gets covered unless somebody pays for it. The reach of this site is very broad, and nobody should be complaining about it because they’re not paying for it, as they would pay for a subscription service like the hard copy of G&A. You can always skip a post here if you’re not interested in it, and that’s okay. But grousing about it is disingenuous. It’s free. Enjoy it or don’t.
Agreed…..and just like PTM…..he’s dead wrong. A variety of accusations against you these days can result in a sudden ejection of all your gun rights until you prove otherwise. How on earth do you rationalize that this isn’t relevant to our cause?
I think it’s pretty well established by now that Paul T. McCain has never met a false accusation that he didn’t stand behind. Or stand in front of, saying “nothing to see here, move along!”
For those who don’t already know: This feller apparently makes a living (or an ego-tripping) off of “white knighting” and doesn’t give a flying *bleep* about the men and children hurt by false-witness-bearing women that abuse the legal system.
He’s already pleaded guilty to giving false testimony — see his plea above. So I guess that he’s in favor of it. No wonder he hated this post.
Totally unrelated, have to say it. “Whatever happened to the Snowdens of yesteryear?” Love your usename!
So what is the punishment for filing a false report? It has to be a severe punishment, whomever made these acusations damn near ruined this mans life.
No, it isn’t a tough punishment…”we couldn’t have people not report crimes for fear of being accused of falsely reporting a crime!”
Actually, it can be a felony if the reported crime is a felony.
Check out SC 16-17-722, for example, where Section (B) reads:
(B) A person who violates subsection (A) by falsely reporting a felony is guilty of a felony and upon conviction must be imprisoned for not more than five years or fined not more than one thousand dollars, or both.
And yes, we charged women that filed false sexual assault reports when it happened.
And did all the militant feminists show up and protest your decision to prosecute these cases?
Nope. Not where I was, anyway.
All I can say is that under these circumstances, he deserves the benefit of the doubt . . . for now.
Now about the terrible safety practices shown on Sons of Guns, thats another story.
Oh come on, who hasn’t fired a blank in the air at their own workplace?
I just did my first desk pop. That’s a real thing, right?
Innocent until proven guilty? Nah, better arrest him before the child even makes a statement.
BTW, his show isn’t as bad as some people seem to think it is.
Just another day of the MFM ignoring the #RealWarOnMenAndBoys
Where does it say he was arrested before the child was questioned?
The comment
The child in question was properly interviewed by child services and an arrest was made, as part of standard procedure,
is at best ambiguous with regard to timing.
It does NOT say, “properly interviewed and THEN an arrest was made.” All we know is that both actions happened.
The statement further explicitly states that the child was questioned AFTER the arrest (ie, after he was cooperating with the police). It is unclear if that is a second questioning.
Historically, with 24 years in the crim defense biz, I’ve found the cops will bow down to whatever their local CPS/CWS folks advise. One less case to file. Have seen vastly more cases that couldn’t be made after I CPS finding of abuse, than those that were later found to be passed over.
As for Rev. McCain – I wouldn’t expect any apologies any time soon. Probably still trying to figure out how to get a bumper sticker off the car without marring the finish.
Post Script – False reporting charges, even though felony grade, are usually dropped to misdos, or non-DV harassment.
Hey, he was RELEASED after the questioning, if he was not arrested before, he would not have been arrested.
So arrests are made as soon as there’s an accusation without even questioning the child first? Utter bullshit.
Guilty until proven innocent in this country when it comes to things like this.
If this does prove out to be false, that’s really as low as it gets… to falsely accuse someone of molesting a child. That should be a grave crime in itself.
You do a serious disservice to the kids who need to report real cases of child abuse and for whatever reason are afraid to and feel people may not believe them.
Only a total scumbag would falsely accuse someone of such a heinous act, and only a real scum bag would commit such a heinous act.
“That should be a grave crime in itself.”
It is a felony, at least in some states.
Whether it is prosecuted is another matter entirely.
Naw, despite what most people seem to think, being arrested is not the same as being found guilty. I imagine the intent is to protect the child who is supposedly being abused, and that seems fair so long as we get it done, like a decision to go forward or not in less than a week. Not tossing someone in jail and beginning to look 18 months later. Which a lot of countries do.
Well by the statement, it sounds like he is innocent of the allegations. This will hurt his carrier thought. The person who made the claim, (the mother/ex girlfriend) should be charged. But that will never happen.
Agree, there should be consequences for those who bear false witness. Serious consequences.
Said it before:
I really don’t like Will Hayden, that stupid show or asshat outfit (Redjacket), but I really do like a think called Due Process. The man is innocent until proven guilty. That’s the basis of our whole system. I suspend judgement or any other commentary. If this turns out to be patently false, there should be consequences for those who would bear false witness against their neighbor. If it turns out to be true, there will be serious consequences for the criminal offender.
Does anyone else see the irony in stating “innocent until proven guilty”, then immediately asking for penalties for the accuser?
If you really believe in innocent until proven guilty and a system of law, it applies equally, not just to whoever your biases support.
Your statement makes no sense whatsoever.
They are calling for penalties for the accuser if he was falsely accused. By definition, in order for the crime of false accusation to even be KNOWN, the guilt of the false accuser has to be known.
It is truly a Boolean Exclusive Or:
Either the accusation was correct and he is guilty of molestation.
-OR-
The accusation was false and the accuser is guilty filing a false report.
There is no other option, and both cannot be simultaneously true.
Can’t see any breakdown of due process with charging the accuser if the facts support that option.
That is incredibly oversimplified
What about these possibilities:
1. He is guilty, but they cannot prove it to the level required in court.
2. She had honest reason to believe it, but upon further investigation her suspicion was found to be incorrect.
It isn’t just a case of false accusation or guilty.
“2. She had honest reason to believe it, but upon further investigation her suspicion was found to be incorrect.”
The law isn’t there to disprove your suspicions so you can feel good about yourself. Making a claim to which you have no actual proof beyond your “suspicion” is called “MAKING A FALSE ALLEGATION.”
If suspicion is all you need, why don’t we call the police on those people with dark makeup and clothing, because they look suspicious, or why don’t we call the cops on that person visiting their family and accuse them of breaking in, because they look suspicious and you never saw them before. I’ve been working in the back of the house of an out-of-state relative I was visiting, and suddenly 4-5 cops come around the corner of the house! What were they doing there?? Well, they said they hear noises/talking in the back of the house. Oh, could that maybe be… BECAUSE PEOPLE LIVE THERE?! Do you know what cops just show up around the back of people’s houses? Most likely some dumb bitch called the cops because they saw someone “suspicious.” – Hey, let’s just all call the cops on people we have suspicions against!!! Yeah, that’s REAL f____ing smart!!
I said nothing about prosecution or proof in court. I said he’s either guilty or she falsely accused him.
There are no other possibilities. Your two cases fit within that. (1) he’s guilty, (2) she falsely accused him, as in she accused without sufficient evidence.
Taken purely as bare facts, it is that clear cut.
I can very much sympathize with Will because the exact same thing was done to me during my divorce. Sadly, if you are married to a crazy woman, and it goes south just get ready for it. I think it’s becoming standard procedure these days. Fortunately I was able to prevent arrest because I heard about the investigation within 24 hours of the accusation and was able to very quickly put a stop to it by showing complete transparency. I invited the cops into my house for an interview after speaking to my attorney and gave them a tour of the home. Then I volunteered for a poly. Within 48 hours it was over, no visit to the county lock up, no poly test. I wouldn’t normally advocate inviting cops into your home but, in this situation, it worked out for me. They never asked what was in the safe or anything like that although I was frisked and read my rights in my kitchen. Glad it worked out for WH as well. Whether you like him or not….no one should be wrongly accused of molesting their own child.
Man, that is just the rottenist thing ever, to falsely accuse someone of molesting any child, let alone their own.
Heck, there’s even a commandment for that one. Thou shall not bear false witness.
I’m not a religious zealot, but that’s a fundamental tenant for how you are to act in this world, and what you owe your neighbor and your society, and what they owe you in return.
I think you are making too much of an assumption that these types of people are human and play by the same rules as us. My ex is a monster in every sense of the word. When the above mentioned predicament did not result in my incarceration she turned around and accused my 9 year old (at the time) step son of the exact same crime against my daughter. It was dismissed just as quickly but, the damage was done. To this day I can’t let my current wife (it was her son) anywhere near my ex because I’m quite literally concerned that she would do grave physical harm to her. Ain’t divorce fun?!?!
Was she crazy when you married her, or was it a gradual slide?
No, more like the flip of a switch Jacob. She came home and announced that she wanted a divorce completely out of the blue. I thought we were good / had no idea. From that point on it was all means to an end kind of stuff. She threatened to kill me so many times and in so many different ways that it became a running joke at my office. At one point they had a tongue-in-cheek chart on the wall where you could take bets on how and when I would meet my end. Kind of like what they do to guess a newborns birthday and weight. Ha, ha, I work with a funny bunch of assholes!
Mo, my ex-wife did the same to me. With my two year old daughter, after one of my twice monthly, 8 hr visitations (extortions) they took her to a child psychologist with their filthy accusations, and of course the psychologist wrote a letter to the judge advising that all future visitation be supervised until this matter could be resolved. But of course it can never be resolved because the man can never prove a negative, it’s logically impossible, so the father, in this case me, is treated as guilty perpetually, and all visits henceforth were had to be supervised. So much gained by the vindictive accuser, so much lost by the innocent accused. This is how the fabric of society is destroyed. One more “fatherless child”, the result of a female psychopath, and her eager lawyer, who has learned how to game the system.
Oooo I know that trick too NevadaSmith. After the above tactics didn’t work she took my three year old daughter to every shrink in town hoping that someone would believe that I had done something to her. It’s called “Therapist Hopping”. If the shrink she was seeing didn’t tell her what she wanted to hear she would just move on to the next one with the goal of finding someone to testify in court. Most of the madness ended after I was able to catch onto this plan as well and put a stop to it. I went so far as to schedule my own appointments with the therapists so that I could counter the claims she was making and end it. My sympathies to you. I feel your pain and hope it is over with. My daughter is a teen now so her mother can’t convince her to say / accuse me of suspicious sounding shit anymore.
Mo, sadly it didn’t end until I quit trying to find justice in court rooms. 20 court hearings and an appeal were enough for me. Loss of wife, daughter, house, all savings, and 50k new debt, all for nothing, gone with the wind into the pockets of lawyers. Divorce Corp, er Court, is a huge wealth transfer mechanism from fathers to ex-wives and lawyers. I finally interviewed a good lawyer who, after a quick review of the facts in my case, gave me difficult but good advice: “Disengage”. Maybe his dad was a Marine at Chosin Reservoir. I quit trying to get a judge to protect the father-daughter relationship. Judges rarely ever protect the man. Judges will always protect the woman at the man’s expense, however. That’s how they get re-elected.
That lawyer had seen enough of these cases to know I was dealing with a psychopath. She read books like “The Emotionally Abused Woman”, memorized lists of “abuse criteria”, then recited these in court or pleadings. The “Family Justice” system is like a modern Gulag, separating men from their money and children, at the behest of vindictive women and their unprincipled lawyers. It was hard for me to believe someone could, as you say, flip like a switch, and go from “the good wife” to the devil in a dress, accusing me of a laundry list of bad behavior, none true, simply to promote her victimhood status, to justify her falsehoods and maximize pecuniary gain in court judgements. Didn’t have anything to do with me, really. I was just a meal ticket, and sperm donor: husband #3. After she was gone, my brother talked to husbands #1 & 2. So now I know she is a sociopath. I recently received a postcard from some poor chap (he didn’t sign his name) who said he “was almost #6”. I think husband #2 must have have got word to him… As for me and my daughter, who is now 21, I have not seen her since she was 3.
Most men are totally naive to the abuse they will be subjected to by the legal system during divorce. No one is prepared for it, no one can thinks it will happen to them, and few realize how corrupt our legal system is as it pays homage to the female imperative. False accusations from the female, and a robotic response by the child protective services and the judges, all of whom are trying to stay out of the papers “just in case” this accusation is true and they are accused of “doing nothing”.
Forewarned is Forearmed. So be Forewarned! False allegations pose grave danger to patriots. Keep your powder dry, and don’t keep it all in one place. Stash your arms in several locations, and don’t let your wife know about them all. Remember, she _will_ get the house in the divorce, and you may have no warning, it may happen while you are at work, but eventually you may be given a chance to reclaim some of your possessions (after she has stripped everything she can find of value). Buy a gun safe, and store a few old rifles it (without their bolts, of course), and a few hundred pounds of lead bars for the apocalypse. It is only a sacrificial anode. It’s the first thing they will take or break into, and maybe they will think they got your goods. But stash at least some of your arms and ammo where a casual search won’t find it. The attic, the basement, inside a wall, think camoflage. Build a cache behind some thin masonry (like Bruce Willis in “RED”). Whatever. As Gandalf said to Bilbo: “Keep it secret. Keep it safe.” But don’t bury them in the back yard. Rust sucks, and as a patriot once said: “if it’s time to bury the guns, then it’s time to un-bury them”.
Is it known how old the child in question is, and what relation to Mr. Haydon she is? just curious.
IDK the child’s age. IIRC, it’s his daughter, who was born just outside of Wedlock (which I believe is southeast of Baton Rouge).
This story has EVERYTHING to do with guns because of the current attampts to confiscate firearms from someone who is merely accused of domestic violence.
As I said before forget the Adults. If anyone wants to feel sorry or sympathy FEEL SORRY for the CHILD.. The adults can take care of thereselves.
So it doesn’t matter if a person is arrested on false allegations, “they’re adults,” they can handle it, huh? That’s a pretty shitty thing a characterless low-life would say.
Yeah it really is. How do LEO’s get this kind of attitude? It’s their job to protect the adults too….is it not? What are you protecting the child from if they had nothing to do with the BS accusation in the first place?
” While we have an indication as to who this report may have come from, we are not going to release that information until it has been thoroughly investigated.”
Mikey, is that you???…..Shannon? Amanda Mercot? Roxanne Cooper? I know how you like to slander people and support people who slander others. Always supporting biased news to promote your agenda.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it were one of them – it wouldn’t be beneath them!
At least they didn’t dispatch the SWAT team to make the arrest…. and we might as well take all of these evil guns and any ammo we can find down to the station too… Maybe the boys in Baton Rouge play by a different playbook than say Jersey??
I have done plenty of these investigations, normally the child is removed and one can figure out pretty quick if there was abuse. But only after the interview with the victim, a physical exam and an interview with the alleged, did we ever make an arrest.
John,
I have a sis that is in the same type of work as you. Women make these allegations all the time to get back at men for whatever reason. I think its BS that women never pay the price for making these false charges. They should spend some time in prison. Preferably the same amount of time as the man would have if he had actually don’t it.
I’m no law enforcement guy and believe in innocent until proven guilty but, if the DA didn’t feel strong about the case there is no way they would have charged him a second time. Not saying it’s all true but something happened. I don’t see to many people coming to his defense. I find it hard to believe that a crazy woman and a twelve year old girl snow balled the investigators. Unfortunately it’s not good PR for the gun community
We stand behind this family and the show how sad that someone has to do this to another and put both family’s through hell Pray for both
Since you don’t know for a fact that he did not rape his daughter, what you are saying is you don’t care if he raped her or not, you support him. It’s sad enough that anyone supported him before this as he is a sack of shit to start with, but supporting a rapist is terrible.
never donate seeds into arsenic tube of non-wornderful.
I love all the comments from guys on here about “My crazy ex did this!” or “This happened to me, too!”
Don’t want to deal with crazy? Don’t stick your dick in it in the first place, or at the very least wrap it up good. Otherwise you reap what you sow.
You libtard idiots! This story has nothing to do with Will Hayden’s profession! You assume too much by what you don’t have any clue about! You’re all Nancy “clueless” Pelosi clones! Back the fuck off and give the man peace!!! Whatever slander has been spoken, Will will handle in his own way and damn everyone who believes otherwise! Red Jacket brothers ALL THE WAY!!!
The Alinsky Rules writ large. Make allegations of impropriety and then fade into the shadows.
Moral of the story? Don’t date crazy people, kids. Just don’t.
Can’t fix crazy. You can stay away, sometimes thats hard, and once legally bound to them its damned near impossible.
Re-arrested and aggravated rape charges filed. 12 year daughter making the accusation, not the ex.
He is a real piece of sh*t, if this is all true. Got to wonder who the DCFS “counselor” working this is and what their work history is. Have little to no trust or faith in any “child protective services” after witnessing their actions over the last 40 years throughout the country. A mess, all the way around, and if it is found to be false people need the living sh*t punished out of them for it. Multiple people. Seen far too many innocent people burned by county and state “child protective services” and no one punished for it.
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