With the Second Amendment being an easy read for the literate and Pennsylvania state law prohibiting the regulating of firearms by local government, it should be hard to imagine a world in which a township can use zoning to prohibit a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) from doing business strictly because they deal in guns.
But that’s the case in Pennsylvania, where the township of Lower Merion officials argue that the law does not extend to zoning, which regulates land use. The move will not come as a shock to most as Democrats have always used any manner of mental gymnastics to circumvent the law when it suits them. I think we have a word for people like that. Criminals.
With a Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court prepared to issue a ruling shortly as to whether Lower Merion has the authority to limit where guns are sold, the decision could have a sweeping impact across the state, as a win for the township could encourage additional leftist-run communities to implement similar zoning regulations, and protect those that already have in the state.
“It could open up the floodgates for every anti-gun municipality to zone out home-based FFLs (federal firearms licenses); it would put them out of business,” said Pennsylvania state director for the Gun Owners of America, Val Finnell.
Adam Garber, executive director of CeaseFire PA and either mentally inept or morally corrupt, argues that not being able to use zoning as a loophole to violate the Constitution and Pennsylvania law would allow the firearms industry to operate unfettered, saying it is barely regulated as it sits. No, I’m not kidding; he actually said that.
“At that point we are really talking about the Wild, Wild West of a world where this is the only industry that is barely regulated now in several ways and would be completely unregulated… The consequences we know are really clear, which would be more violence,” said Gerber, I mean Garber.
Let’s take a moment to look at the ridiculous claim of “more violence.” Surely Adam has a study to share that would correlate an FFL’s presence with that of violent crime, right? Don’t hold your breath on that one. These people make a career out of saying things and hoping they stick without a hint of foundation. But what if the claim was true? Is he saying there is a particular part of the township he would like to direct all the violent crime to?
The Lower Marion ordinance originally would have prohibited FFLs from operating in residential or walkable downtown areas, relegating them to strip malls and industrial use zones while requiring measures such as smash-resistant windows, an alarm system, and internal video surveillance. A Montgomery County judge struck down some requirements in 2024, including the window modifications, but allowed the overall zoning restrictions.
Josh Grimes, the Lower Merion Commissioner and obviously a graduate of the Democrat institute for criminals in government, walked himself into a proper admission of his contempt for the law, but he likely didn’t pick up on it because, well, he’s a moron.
“A substantial number of our residents are in favor of restricting the pervasiveness of guns and firearms… We can’t do that meaningfully because of federal and state laws but our solicitor advised us that we can, again, use zoning laws to regulate where they can be to the most appropriate parts of the township,” Grimes said.
Right, Josh, those inconvenient state and federal laws got in the way, so you want to use zoning to single out one specific retail subset to “regulate” the location of that which Pennsylvania state law says a local government may not regulate? Tell me you’re corrupt without telling me you’re corrupt.
Attorney Josh Prince is fighting for a broader interpretation of Pennsylvania’s preemption law, arguing that FFLs can be held to the same zoning regulations as other commercial businesses but that singling them out using policies that deal with firearms specifically is in violation of the law, and he is correct on the matter.
Let’s be honest: These are punitive measures designed to hurt firearms businesses, the industry, and their customers. They amount to nothing more than authoritarian behavior outside the bounds of the law and without foundation for the purposes of imposing leftist will on the community and law-abiding Americans.
While I would rather these people crawl in a 10×10 cell so we can move on to allocating money and resources to improve communities without petulant distractions, I’d also like to remind them that we can play that game too, perhaps taking a closer look at zoning as it pertains to Planned Parenthood and businesses that offer gender-affirming care.
The communist city council in Seattle did something similar. They did not use zoning, but implemented a tax, up to 25% on firearm sales within the city. The money was to be used for alleged victims of so called “Gun Violence”. Most gun shops closed. One gun shop moved just outside the city limits and offered Seattle residents a 10% discount on their firearm purchases. Seattle council members were counting on that tax to raise about $250,000, That did not happen. So instead of getting the basic sales tax from firearms and ammo, they got nothing.
Were they really counting on that revenue or was that a convenient claim to make as a plausible excuse for their behavior which had other, unstated, outcomes which they desired?
It sounds like they drove them out, so mission accomplished. The next goal will be to drive them out of the county, and so on.
Likely correct, but they wouldn’t say no to the money, to be used for nefarious purposes. Reference any DOGE report.
The Justice Department may be going after the Washington State Licensing Department in light of the Justice Department filing a lawsuit against New York State for their ‘motor voter’ system that automatically registers illegal aliens.
Washington State has been doing the same thing for YEARS, and the state AG offices are housed in the other half of the building where the primary office of WaDL is located.
So… Any attempt by the AGs office to claim ‘no knowledge’ of the unconstitutional scheme is going to be pretty hard to deny.
https://www.wethegoverned.com/panic-at-the-department-of-licensing-ferguson-knows/
I, for one, would pay good money to watch Bob “The Weasel” Ferguson arrested and walked out of the Governors Mansion..
This is probably one tentacle of the new gun control push: going after FFLs using state, local and county power to push them out of business.
That’s 100% the intent in Colorado. They’re not going to ban things, they’re just going to make it such a PITA that they cut into the revenue of straight gun store businesses and make it unprofitable to run such an enterprise.
Then they’ll say “We didn’t ban anything, we just had reasonable [something] regulation. It’s not our fault that no one wants to sell you [bad thing]”.
The Columbus, OH suburb of Dublin did that oh, some 30 years ago. Passed so many zoning restrictions on businesses that the downtown Davis Guns left for Plain City I believe, where they withered and died. They were a seriously good LGS, but fighting city hall really hurt them. At that time, Dublin was still surrounded by cornfields, but the city leaders were pretentiously polishing their snooty looks as the suburbs jostled for ratings on the real estate charts. Can’t have rubes like me come in to buy a box of surplus SKS rifles and a couple cases of Norinco ammo. Dublin gets no more of my dollars, although I do wave as I navigate the new octopus interchange on my way past to Vance’s.
I had no idea that Dublin did that, though I’m not terribly shocked given the people who live there.
Lived on Bethel over by Northcrest Park for a while. Most of the people I went to college with came from Hilliard or Dublin.
Yep, back in the ‘90s. I suspect you don’t get this way much now, but the stone facades on all the downtown buildings were part of that blizzard of pretense. A lot of it was driven by the success of Muirfield. Davis Guns was located on W. Bridge just a block or so west of High, north side of the street. I think there’s a vet clinic on that property now, where the swells take their rat dogs to get nerve pills. Been awhile, and it’s changed a lot. The last pic in my memory of them there is of a moving sign in the window, surrounded by a facade of that fake stone that had just been acid washed. They tried to survive the purge.
Northcrest? Still a nice area. Eastward on Bethel is beginning to crumble a bit, and west is pretty dolled up, but Northcrest is still decent. If it weren’t for gun shops, Micro Center would be my favorite store. Ok, maybe partly because of the Wendy’s that’s right there. Daughter is in grad school at a place south of there.
I haven’t been to Ohio, or really done much east of the Mississippi in quite some time. At least not anything I actually wanted to do. Occasionally to TN but that’s about it on the funzies front.
I’m not shocked that the area around Microcenter isn’t doing well. When I first moved to Columbus I lived in the Fox & Hounds apartment complex off Kenny.
It was cool back then, mostly married grad students. We had a garage with our unit and on the weekends we’d wheel a BBQ out of, pull out chairs and this giant tree stump that I stole from a tree cutting up on Godown near Case and kinda do a 20-35 person “block party” with food, beer and playing Stump. The Stump game was pretty much the attractant for everyone. People even brought their kids.
In retrospect, fact that the complex allowed us to play a game like Stump in a parking lot probably didn’t auger well for the future of the entire area. There was already a super, super shady liquor store just north of us on Kenny.
That little complex that MicroCenter was in was already kinda going downhill at that point too. MC was cool, built some rigs with parts bought there, but there were already the beginnings of the attraction of unpleasant elements obviously doing things like dealing drugs in the parking lot and the cops didn’t do shit. Is the gun store there the same as it used to be? L.E. something?
I would say they certainly could use zoning to limit FFLs, just like they can use it to limit something like strip clubs and c-a-s-i-n-o-s*. The 2A doesn’t give you the right to open up shop anywhere you want to. I can’t believe these guys were dumb enough to admit that they were singling out FFLs because they hate the firearm industry. That may not end up helping their cause.
*avoiding moderation system
It is sort of an interesting question when you consider that these businesses are legal.
Would they openly try such a thing with a bakery, bookstore or clothing retailer? In a manner of speaking they already do with zoning but they don’t appear to do it in an arbitrary and capricious manner designed to exclude those businesses from whole areas.
Logically, though probably not legally, if an area is zoned for business then it should be fine to run any legal business in that area. Right?
There are different types of business zoning, just like there are different types of residential zoning. It’s logical when there’s a natural geographic flow to it. In other words, you get into more dense residential units as you inch closer to commercial areas. Likewise, you get into more industrial areas the farther you are from residential areas. They could make it make sense, but the way they’re going about it may not be legal.
Can’t understand “shall not be infringed”?
AT ALL/ANYWHERE
So long as they’re not actively trying to run gun stores out of the area, I suspect that zoning is not an argument that we’re going to win on.
Courts will probably find that zoning is acceptable so long as it’s not being used in a capricious or punitive manner or for another purpose (like eliminating gun stores from an entire area).
This is an area where I suspect that the Devil is in the details and courts will defer to local governments “within reason”. It’s not exactly going to be easy to argue that it’s an infringement to say that gun stores must be located two blocks away from where the owner would really like the place the business unless this is being done in some manner that’s fairly obviously discriminatory.
My general assumption being that gun stores are classified as “retail” and that anywhere you could start another retail business for books, or clothes, or health supplements or cell phones, one could have a gun store, legally speaking.
In Colorado we differentiate between industrial and commercial zoning, for instance. My understanding is that if your business is classified as being commercial (including retail) you can put your business within a commercial zone. I’m not aware of further restrictions (though they may exist) on what types of business you can put there so long as that business is deemed “commercial” as opposed to “industrial” or “agricultural”.
I’m sure they could play some sort of shell game with the definition of a business if they wanted to. It would be interesting to look at the zoning regs across the country and see what sort of options there are and therefore what is and what is not legal.
@strych9 There are usually lists of allowed businesses within particular zones. Some businesses are even allowed in some residential zones. Zoning *can* be useful. Like anything else, it can also be a tool to abuse. That’s why some rural counties resist enacting any zoning ordinance.
@neiowa The 2A doesn’t read: the right of the people to sell Arms, shall not be infringed.
We can still win by being honest about everything.
That’s why some rural counties resist enacting any zoning ordinance.
Which is why I don’t know shit about them.
“Would they openly try such a thing with a bakery, bookstore or clothing retailer?”
How about a sort-of ‘lack of clothing’ retailer?
They did that down here about 20 years back when a couple of ‘lap dances’ businesses opened up, a blatant prostitution establishment.
Regulated them right out of business until they packed up and left, they did…
I’m confused.
If it was blatant, why didn’t the prosecute these people? Why weaponize regulations?
It’s not only words that the moderation catches. Its misinterpreting letters.
I had written about missing J ay in Florida and word press moderated it.
I assume it saw g ay. I reposted using the same letter separation as above and it posted.
Artificial intelligence isn’t so intelligent.
Let’s change the zoning where Atty. Prince may practice law.
If they have a home office, check if that violates HOA rules about conducting a business from home.
In Florida, it would not necessarily violate HOA rules. Could. But might not. You have to know your documents.
What follows is TLDR. Basically if you can be the epitome of “the grey man” in your neighborhood, the less the chance you’ll attract unwanted HOA attention.
Think of it this way: If you were James Bond and you live in a neighborhood, what’s the best way to avoid being discovered as a spy? Don’t attract attention.
Running a business can get you hung up with your HOA if you cause traffic problems, or if you do other things that get you found out. In my neighborhood, nobody complains about the dude making furniture in his garage. And if they did, our HOA would tell them MYOB. But at the same time, he’s not sawing and drilling metal-on-metal after 10 pm. So the HOA doesn’t even know that guy’s name!
By contrast, our HOA knows all about the people down the street who constantly have tires stacked up on their driveway and who are blocking the street with multiple different cars during weekdays.
For a home office situation, an HOA in Florida doesn’t care what you do inside your home unless you have customers coming over and causing parking problems, disrupting the peace, etcetera.
If you are a music teacher, a ceramics or painting teacher, you can have an individual student or two at a time, but you probably can’t get away with having a whole orchestra show up at the same time in 20 moms’ minivans 5 times each week.
Again, it’s all about not attracting attention. And maybe don’t blab all your stuff to the neighbors.
Just don’t make any offensive smells or sounds, because complaining neighbors are one of the TOP reasons somebody catches hell from their HOA.
Florida statute pretty much says that something is an offense if it violates the documents and that violation can be detected from the street, the neighbor to either side, or the property to the rear.
No “detection”? No complaint.
Know your documents, maintain your house as expected (given the documents and the neighborhood), and stay on good terms with the neighbors in front, to either side, and in back of you.
Don’t do anything to offend the neighbors who walk their dog or their kids in front of your house, either.
Anybody can make a complaint, and then the HOA has to investigate. And that is always when the trouble starts.
Let’s change the zoning where Atty. Prince may practice law.
Minnesota Supreme Court Goes Nuts! Cars are Public Space in Minnesota on Roads State v. Kyaw Be Bee.
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAKZBzuEydE
“Minnesota Supreme Court….Cars are Public Space…”
Finally, we can get back to legislating what people can legally do in their private lives. ‘Bout time we ban smoking in vehicles.
Another sleazy discriminatory tactic from those with an agenda History Confirms is Rooted in Racism an Genocide aka Gun Control.
h ttp://youtube.com/post/UgkxHIGS5TOqEaVx5oQHw6DBvqEGf1hyDmwL?feature=shared
Speaking of sleazy, wanna get together sometime? 😉
LOL.
Man you never quit.👍
No firearms within 5 miles of a school
exactly why we didn’t get a trader joe’s near the middle school. previously osco had beer/ wine but [aldi] wanted hart likka, a bridge too far for our karens.
AG Bondi FIRES BIDEN’S CHIEF ATF LAWYER & She’s (the ATF lawyer) Promptly “ESCORTED FROM THE BUILDING”…
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkvRZbrj6Fs
BIDEN’S CHIEF ATF LAWYER fired and escprted from building
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkvRZbrj6Fs
fired by AG Bondi….ATF lawyer escorted from building.
Of course they can use zoning to regulat the location of gun related businesses, or any other business for that matter…and they have been doing it for decades .
America is the land of the sheep…and sheep are stupid and have to be told what the can and can’t do, even on their own property.
HOAs are another example of the concept.
All of this is simply more openly demonstrating the civil war ongoing since 2Jul1776. The phase we see now is called “Lawfare” (which Trump is waging against the deep state). There are no defined parameters to when this phase morphs into another. However, I do detect that there is a faction that perceives eliminating CEOs as a natural offspring from the current phase.
If the takers had their way there would be no rights.
I suppose when all the FFF dealers are gone we can smuggle us up some guns from Mehico.
I wouldn’t mind having some china brand full auto.
BREAKING NEWS: Senators Demand ATF Recind These 4 Unconstitutional Rules IMMEDIATELY!
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBk0L5aoqRs
Testing
Happening in Monterey, California also.
see: https://www.gallagherammo.com/blog/licensing-shitstorm-zombie-returns
We need to work at the national level to abolish how local zoning and local business licenses can be used as a weapon against gun and / or ammo stores – there should be a federal law that overrides any local business license requirement and allows applicants to rely on state and federal permits only.