Pennsylvania Governor Tom Wolf Makes a Great Case Against Red Flag Laws

By
Dan Zimmerman
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88

The absolute ignorance of our justice system and its operations it would take to genuinely post this and to think it makes a good point is jaw-dropping. It’s ironic, too, because proponents of red flag laws say that they’re only going to be used in extreme cases, like when someone is publicly threatening to shoot up a school, for example. But this graphic actually proves the opposite—it all starts over “photos of guns” and “cryptic messages,” neither of which are illegal or even necessarily concerning. …

Democrats are the first to complain about our criminal justice system, and often for good reason. Yet pointing out that police frequently lie both under oath and to obtain warrants, that wrongful convictions regularly occur, and that most people don’t get their day in court anymore because 99% of cases are pleaded out, is all useless if you then go on to make everything worse with your other policies. 

Red flag laws seek to remove the basic constitutional protections guaranteed to all Americans before their liberties can be taken away. There is not sufficient due process, because the accused have no representation and get no trial before they have their rights taken away.

And while there may be “recourse” or a method for targeted individuals to petition the court and get their rights back, that really becomes a question of means. Can you afford an attorney to fight back? Do you have the time away from work to pursue recourse? And even if you prevail, can you recover the damage done to your reputation in the process?

Furthermore, why would anyone think these protocols are not prime for abuse from other citizens as well. Society has been grappling with the Karen effect for some time. The honest truth is there are a certain number of very bored, empty individuals running around out in society with nothing better to do than rat on their neighbor for the slightest imagined infraction. 

— Hannah Cox in This Democrat Governor Just Proved Why Red Flag Laws WILL Be Abused

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

88 COMMENTS

  1. And without a hint of irony the same people pushing for no-bail release of murderers even though your holding pending due process is “temporary” will support this “temporary” infringement on gun owners while they await due process.

    The fact that so many of our elite tier peers support suspending the rights of others based on little more than the mad, accusatory and vengeful screechings of bed-poopers like Amber Heard is the real problem.

    The boy who cried wolf is holding all the cards now.

    • Too many people have a simple and basic misunderstanding about “gun control.” “Gun control” is not now, and has never been, about crime or criminals. Quite frankly, the Left couldn’t give a rat’s behind about crime or criminals. Gun control is, and has always been, about disarming the citizenry so they cannot represent a threat to the government once the Left establishes the dictatorship they have been working toward for well more than half a century and, thanks to the stolen elections of November 2020 and January 2021, are now in the process of consolidating. The key word in the term “gun control” is not “gun” – it is “control.” A quick study of basic world history will show that one of the first actions taken by every Communist government upon their takeover was to go to all of the local police stations, get the lists of gun owners, and then go door to door and disarm everyone. That is why the Communists – er, I mean the Democrats – want a national gun registry. Is there really anyone at this point in time who still does not understand this?

      And by the way, it is way beyond disingenuous that the Left always speaks of “we need gun control” as if there were currently no laws concerning firearms. There are now more than 24,000 gun control laws in effect at the federal, state, and local levels in this nation. Every conceivable aspect of firearm purchase, ownership, and use is covered dozens of times over. Firearms are by far the single most regulated and restricted consumer product in this nation. The only ones who are impacted by all these laws, however, are the law-abiding, which of course is the goal. Criminals very rarely (check the FBI data on this) even attempt to obtain firearms through legal channels, and are thus unaffected by “gun control.” As I stated above, “gun control” has nothing to do with crime or criminals.

      • frank – that ‘propensity for abuse’ is not a bug, it is a feature. One could ‘almost’ make a case that it is requirement since the flaggers have already demonstrated on numerous occasions their willingness to abuse such ‘laws’ – and with little to no recourse for their victims, before, during and after said abuse.

    • the point of no return for Amerika was passed a long time ago. GOD has allowed the men to be emasculated, the females turned butch and the children brainwashed by the communist. This will not end pretty. The clueless (stupid) will die. Socialism usually ends in mass murder. People control always comes before the chaos. Know your history… YOU are not free in Amerika

      • Too many Americans take an “it can’t happen here” mentality. Until it does. I wonder if the Jews were thinking the same thing, right up until they got marched into the gas chambers for their “shower”? Even worse, too many Christians in the U.S. think that they are “too darn special” to suffer anything, and will not fight, either, until there is nothing left to fight for. Sadly, Tim, I echo your sentiments: I think we reached that “point of no return”, as well.

  3. So we can do this with any constitutional amendment now then? How about the first? The fourth? The eighth? Definitely the thirteenth while we’re at it.

  4. This is the kind of due process that mao, stalin and hitler could all get behind.

    No wonder its so appealing to fools like miner49er and herr dacian.

      • How about FDR? Rounded up American citizens at gun point and put them in concentration camps based solely on their race.

        And of course we forgot miner49er. He gets behind this version of due process, also. You’re known by the company you keep, miner.

        • To be fair, people of one country that lived here in the us, that were isolated because of that, were more apt to stay with what they knew. They were not welcome socially at other’s events. The Japanese that were here in Ca mad their living from truck gardens or by from the sea. The teens and 20 somethings were Zoot Suiters, like the Mexicans and some of the Chinese. The families listened to powerful radios from elevated spots on the coast, kept their Shinto religion and spoke Japanese at home and in business. Of course, they were looked on as potential spies. Some used radio to get back to Japan. Many were good Americans, but much of American society was closed to them.
          Some terrible things were done by Japanese soldiers to Americans, other Whites through the Pacific, not to mention what the did to the indigenous populations of the islands they took over. Many American Japanese lives were saved because the camps, there was a lot of violence against these people just because of who they were.

        • I’ve got to respond to the half truths in rt66paul’s post.

          The Japanese who immigrated to this country were precluded from buying in “white” neighborhoods. The only land they could rent because they were precluded from buying land, was marginal farm land that white farmers thought was incapable of raising crops. The Japanese who farmed were all too familiar with farming useless land and turning it into fertile valuable farm land. They carried those skills from Japan to the U.S. and made lots of land that was “junk” land fertile farm land. As for fishing, of course, they turned to what they knew and could carry on without a lot of bigoted white interference. Japan had centuries of fishing history and were usually better skilled at fishing than the white fishermen. Of course they spoke Japanese in their homes. If you ever lived on the east coast, you would know that almost 100% of non-English speaking immigrants spoke their native tongue in their private homes. If a housewife rarely left her home due to fear of harassment and insults from racist whites, she wouldn’t have much opportunity to learn English.

          Every wave of immigrants faced discrimination from the previous wave. Irish immigrants faced as much discrimination as every other group. No irish woman was fit for any domestic chores except hand washing clothes or scrubbing floors or washing dishes. Irish women weren’t fit to work “upstairs”. Irish men were considered to be especially good with dogs and horses which was natural as they were only a few evolutionary steps above the animals themselves. Ever hear the term “paddy wagon”? That refers to the van that used to pick up drunken Irish men who turned to liquor to forget the incredible discrimination and hatred they faced everywhere in this country and because they couldn’t earn enough to buy a ticket back to Ireland. It’s still used today and every time I see it I write to the publisher or editor of the article and complain that they wouldn’t use the term “n _ _ _ er wagon” why should they use the opprobrious term “paddy”? paddy is a derogatory term for anyone of Irish descent, taken from the Irish spelling of the name Patrick which is Padrigh (and I think I have spelled it incorrectly)

          One of the major differences between Japanese immigrants and Irish immigrants was that Irish immigrants could become naturalized and own land in their own names. Japanese immigrants were ineligible for citizenship and could only own land in the names of their children who were U.S. citizens by birthright. However, I assure you that could that birthright be changed, white amerika would have been more than happy to have that birthright taken away.

          The finest man I ever worked for was an American of Japanese descent. He was already practicing law when the infamous Democrat presidential edict was handed. His partner in his law practice, a Jew, kept his house and his half of the practice for him until the later judge and still later, appellate court justice was able to get out of the concentration camp by volunteering for military service. When he returned all his property had been kept up by his Jewish partner who honored their partnership agreement, unlike so many less fortunate Japanese and Americans who had to see their life savings go for less than 10¢ on the dollar. Yeah, they got compensation at less than that amount signed into law by a Republican president, Ronald Reagan.

          Did you know the first kamikaze pilot was an American pilot who was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor? Look up Colin Kelly and see what got him that award.

          WWII for those of you who were not alive during that holocaust was fought without quarter in the Pacific. No quarter on either side. I remember a picture printed in the Evening Bulletin newspaper of Philadelphia of a young lady with a Japanese skull sitting on her desk. It was a present from her boyfriend who was fighting in the Pacific. No one thought anything of such a gruesome souvenir.

          I remember a former Marine bragging to me how many gold teeth he brought back from combat in the Pacific that he had pried from the jaws of Japanese dead and some not dead. We won the war, so history basically records our version of what happened. Curtis LeMay remarked after the war that it was a good thing we won, otherwise our leaders would have been convicted of war crimes for the fire bombings of German and Japanese cities. People bleat about the two atomic bombs yet overlook the fire bombings of other cities that created more destruction and loss of life and permanent injuries than the two atomic bombings combined. WWII ended in 1945. Let us put to rest forever the stereotypical slander that existed through the war years on both sides. Let me give one last indication of atrocity. When I worked in a Naval District legal office in slow periods I used to read Court Martial Reports, the rulings of the Military Court of Appeals on courts-martial. I was amazed by the huge (in my estimation) number of courts-martial for rape and murder and torture inflicted on the South Korean civilians who ostensibly were our allies by U.S. servicemen. It didn’t matter. They were only gooks so rape, killing and various physical assaults didn’t count — until they came to the attention of the military justice system.

          Never heard about that, did you? It was real.

      • @Miner
        Just to be clear, you agree with Trump’s statement, correct? Or, are you opposed to red flag laws?

        • “Just to be clear, you agree with Trump’s statement, correct? Or, are you opposed to red flag laws?“

          That’s a false dichotomy, there are many options between doing nothing and taking firearms without due process.

          It is not an all or nothing proposition, there’s room for negotiation and setting up a system of checks and balances that would require testimony before a judge.

          It’s clear that the American population will not stand by as nothing is done to address these issues, we need to get in front of the issue rather than talking darkly about assassinating our political opponents.

        • Okay, so you think there should be due process first? In other words, the defendant would actually have a chance to defend himself and face his accuser in court before anything is taken?

      • MINOR Miner49er Not hardly. He got it just right. You Leftists are all for “social justice” except where it applies to people who own a firearm.
        Have you ever bothered to read the 14th Amendment? You know the one that guarantees you due process? The Red Flag Law in fact deprive you of that right and allow supercilious and ridiculous accusations to bel blown way out of proportion.

      • minor49IQ…Yes or No: Red Flag Jim Crow Gun Control kkk nazi joe? He does nothing, he says nothing when druggy son and deceased brother’s wife leaves handgun in dumpster. C’mon man.

      • Heh. Not all of us here like President Trump, and of those of us who do (or even tolerate him), we don’t agree with all of his policies. To try to convince us by bringing up what President Trump thinks is “Appeal to Authority”.

        I am willing to admit that this is one of the things he’s wrong on. I suspect you’re the type who opposes everything Trump, though, so I take it you’re going to automatically reject so-called “Red Flag Laws” because of Trump’s support?

        Because, due process objections aside, they are a really bad idea. If a person really is a danger to self or others, why not put the person in custody, rather than (1) attempt to find all his guns and assume that he doesn’t have a hidden stash somewhere, (2) assume he can’t get more guns afterward, and (3), assume that he can’t use other means, such as kitchen knives, gasoline, or other very common dangerous things that he can go on and use to commit murder and mayhem?

        Seriously: if someone is a danger to self or others, it isn’t because of access of guns. It’s because of the person’s mental state. And here you are, suggesting that all we have to do is “take away” his guns, and everything in the world will be safe.

        Yeah, right.

      • MINOR Miner49er. The name Trump was not mentioned nor should it have been. For your edification, you Socialists are kin folk to Fascists. Not Conservatives, nor Donald Trump.
        You see there was this guy, Giovani Gentile an Italian Socialist who ghost wrote Mussolini’s Manifesto. Not to mention he was a favorite of your other cousin Adolf.
        So you see, you are using a smoke screen to try to cover your tracks.

  5. “any removal of weapons is temporary”

    As a “temporary” gov’t agency or “temporary” gov’t spending program.

    “Pennsylvania Governor Tom Wolf” – Pennsylvania? As I recall Pennsylvania might just be one of the states that CANT EVEN HOLD AN HONEST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

      • “Exactly, PA broke their own election laws repeatedly“

        Specifically, what Pennsylvanian election laws were broken?

        • 01/28/22
          A Pennsylvania court on Friday ruled the state’s mail-in voting law is unconstitutional

          Commonwealth Court Judge Mary Hannah Leavitt agreed with that argument, writing the law violates the 1838 amendment that says a person must vote in-person on Election Day unless they meet certain criteria. She wrote the law can only be changed through another constitutional amendment.
          https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/591831-pennsylvania-court-says-states-mail-voting-law-is-unconstitutional/

          They literally trucked ballots into PA from out of state to take advantage of this.

        • It’s like you’ve never heard of a search engine.

          TBF, there are probably lots of things in common usage that you’ve never heard of. Like intelligence. A brain. Logic. Common sense.

        • Dude, you may want to update your search engine. You quote an article from 01/28/22.

          That’s a lower court ruling from Pennsylvania, which has been overruled by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania’s Supreme Court:

          “Justices keep mail-in voting law in place, at least for now
          March 1, 2022
          HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — Pennsylvania’s mail-in voting law will remain in place, at least for the near future, despite a state judge’s order that would have made it expire in two weeks, the state Supreme Court ruled Tuesday.

          The justices issued a one-paragraph order that overturned a Feb. 16 decision by Commonwealth Court Senior Judge Mary Hannah Leavitt that would have pulled the plug on the state’s 2-year-old voting law.“

          Would I find most interesting is that the Republican majority in the Pennsylvania legislature was in favor of the expansion of mail in voting, right up until Donald Trump lost.

          “Gov. Tom Wolf signed the bill into law on Oct. 31, 2019. At the time, Republicans didn’t see mail-in voting as an electoral liability. In fact, shortly after Act 77 passed, Republican Senate Majority Leader Jake Corman pointed out to CNN that the introduction of no-excuse mail-in voting merely removed the formality of listing an excuse. “We never checked anyway,” he said.”

          https://www.publicsource.org/trump-politicized-mail-in-voting-in-2020-pa-republicans-supported-it-originally/

        • “It’s like you’ve never heard of a search engine.“

          Alien, you might want to update your search engine so you are able to see more recent citations, it would keep you from embarrassing yourself in public.

        • When it comes to anything that you post on this forum, I begin with the premise that you’re lying.

          You constantly prove me correct.

          No update is necessary.

        • Miner,
          I’m aware of the date. I listed it on my comment. You left off an important part of that article you’re quoting. They didn’t overrule the lower court. They decided to leave the status quo in place while it is being litigated. I haven’t heard the final result of that litigation. Post it if you know.

          March 1, 2022
          The administration of Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf asked the Supreme Court last week to keep the law intact during the litigation, arguing that stopping mail-in voting ahead of the spring primary season “would, if anything, only exacerbate voter confusion and the danger of disenfranchisement.”
          https://apnews.com/article/pennsylvania-945da9d7cc39f52e0515577ae1d974c6

    • I can imagine how many of those said weapons that are seized in Red Flag orders will suddenly and mysteriously “disappear” from the evidence locker. Or, outright destroyed before the accused has any say in the matter (innocent or not)? It really is the perfect run-around the Second Amendment. All in the name of “saaaaaftey” (as Eric Peters would say).

  6. Ummm…I have a few fakebook “friends” who rant & rave day and night. And sometimes ramble on about gunz. I mostly quit following or delete them. And there’s been so-called red flag laws(or an approximation) in ILLannoy for awhile. As in a lot of states. I hear a lot of dumb chit about “you elected dims” on TTAG. I didn’t & there is quite a robust gun community in ILL. Resist Pennsylvania…

  7. This Gov is a massive slimeball.
    Either he’s stupid and doesn’t know the definition of due process, or he knows and is just lying thru his teeth.
    Really doesn’t matter which one it is. This shows the Pennsylvania voters he’s unqualified to be their Governor.

    Claims that red-flag laws would require due process. Then outlines a “process” where “Randy” has ZERO “due process”.
    Randy has NO knowledge of the police petitioning the Court to remove a Constitutionally protected natural right.
    He ALSO has NO opportunity to secure legal representation, review evidence, rebute the statements and evidence police/accusers provided to the court, OR provide a statement on his behalf prior to the Judge rendering a decision. 🤔

    Randy is COMPLETELY out of the process. Well, until SWAT w/military hardware shows up to take his personal property.

    By definition, the “due process” T Wolf CLAIMS is in the red-flag process, is in fact, BLATANTLY absent.

    • Since “threat to democracy” means “anyone who doesn’t agree with the regime” it is safe to assume that “due process” simply means “time it takes to punish those who do not agree with the regime.”

      • It’s important to pay close attention to what they ACTUALLY say.

        When Democrats say it they almost always say, “A threat to OUR democracy.”

        If you then understand that the United States is NOT a democracy, but a Constitutional Republic, you then understand that they are not referring to the country you and I believe in and wish to defend, but the imaginary “democracy” that exists only in their minds and future plans which looks nothing at all like the country founded in 1791.

        • It’s part of the propaganda being pushed so they can ditch the Electoral College (EC). People are confused by the EC because they think we have a democracy (hello public education). Plus, the word democracy polls well with the focus groups, so they use it for anything. “We have to [fill in the blank], so we can defend democracy!”

        • Along with “diversity is our strength” and “we have a mandate to keep people safe”. They ain’t talking about you n I. Carlin: “it’s a big club… and you ain’t in it”.

        • This is such an important point. Leftists have spent decades redefining words, to the point that we can’t understand them at all. When they talk about pride, or gay, or racism, or gender or any other topic, they are specifically NOT using the words the way we use them.

          So when they say “our democracy”, they’re not referring to the free vote in the USA. They’re talking about the continued rule of the Democratic party, above and beyond anything that would interfere with their rule (i.e., the Constitution, Federalism, the Supreme Court, etc).

    • Wolf (and Shapiro) take their lead from states like New York, New Jersey and Maryland rather than Ohio or West Virginia…whole different way of thinking east of the mountains…but the dude does want to give me a couple of grand….so he can’t be all bad….

  8. “Due Process” often means “tiny shreds of fairness we are forced to give you by higher courts, but to which we want to find exceptions so we can treat you as badly as we like.”

  9. In Illinois we have “(430 ILCS 67/) Firearms Restraining Order Act.”
    It has been abused since day one and is more of a leverage law then anything else.
    Hearings are supposed to take place in 14 days to get your firearms back.
    They usually don’t and this act is basically used as legal blackmail against people.
    While your neighbor “supposedly” cannot snitch on you, it has happened.
    Any LEO can also have your firearms taken away if they file a complaint.
    There are a few takeaways from this unconstitutional law:
    1) An angry wife can abuse the law and use the proceedings against you in a divorce.
    2) An LEO can try and take away your guns for just about any reason.
    3) A RINO governor signed this law and it’s far worse now that we have Pritzker as governor.
    (the law keeps getting amended to include more reasons to violate your Rights)
    4) The law was written by somebody who was supposedly a pro 2A person.
    I suggest you Google “(430 ILCS 67/) Firearms Restraining Order Act.”
    Click on the following link:
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/it-might-surprise-you-who-helped-write-illinois-new-lethal-violence-order-of-protection-law/
    I know of few people who this law was used on and it was a huge hassle.
    They are now divorced.
    My friends kid got into trouble and the cops tried to take his guns.
    (My friend, not his kid who was 10 years old)
    The kid was in grade school and it had nothing to do with guns or threats.
    The cops brought the kid home and thought they could get some free guns.
    They found out he had a FOID and asked if he had guns in the house.
    They used the threat of taking his FOID so they could take his guns but that would take time.
    The guns were transferred to someone else but the cops didn’t go after his FOID card to get them.

    Red Flag laws are ripe for abuse to strip you of your constitutional Rights.

    • been down this road…cops gave up after two days in frustration…didn’t even get [find] half of them…never keep them all in one place…and, yes I did get them all back..pick a good lawyer and keep him in your hip pocket….

  10. IF RED FLAGS LAWS WERE SIGNED INTO LAW…THEN MOST DEMOCRATS WOULD BE EASY TARGETS…JUST SAYIN…

  12. Red Flag laws would save thousands of lives because the majority of gun homicides happen “in the home” proving beyond all doubt that it is not a break in or an attack on the street that results in most homicides.

    The results of studies prove you “are less safe” when you have a gun in the home.

    States with tough gun laws have less homicides than States with lax laws

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/20/us/everytown-weak-gun-laws-high-gun-deaths-study/index.html

    • A lie.

      The Journal of the American Medical Association published a study on California’s red flag laws:

      “Question: Has implementation of the gun violence restraining order law, beginning in 2016, been associated with a reduction in firearm assault or firearm self-harm in San Diego County, California?

      “Findings: In this cross-sectional study, the gun violence restraining order law was not significantly associated with a reduction in firearm violence of any kind during its first 4 years of implementation, 2016 to 2019.”

      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2790705

      • You cherry picked on small area of the country NOT THE ENTIRE U.S. Nice try but you failed. You are the liar not me.

        • Small area? Commiefornia contains nearly 11.91% of the entire US population. Fake new, dingleberry.

        • Small area? Commiefornia contains 11.91% of the entire US population. Fake new, dingleberry.

        • What, you think that I’m the editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association? Or that I completed the study and wrote the synopsis?

          Damn, you’re stupid.

      • Dacian,
        Illinois has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, so many that most of them are unconstitutional. This is an indisputable fact, I could give many verifiable citations but you aren’t worth my time. You quote CNN (Everytown – so reputable) and I will point you to the violence in Chicago. The related and updated hourly stats are here: https://heyjackass.com/
        BTW: I work in Garfield Park and was born in Englewood Hospital. (now closed)
        I’ve seen more real shootings in my life then in a John Wick movie.
        Come Visit, I’ll give you a partially guided tour.
        Then I will leave you in Englewood on a weekend night when it’s hot out.
        You can tell the dope sick gang bangers all about Everytown and Harvard.
        I’m sure they will find it fascinating before killing you.

    • Dacian: chopping everyone’s hands off, at birth, would save tens of millions of lives every year. Think about it: no more stabbings, no more gunfire, no more drunk driving, and probably a whole lot fewer drug overdoses if people couldn’t get the bottles open. So, because it’ll save lives, can I assume you’re on board for supporting hand hopping?

    • Dacian the dimwit: Soros isn’t going to pay for the #words to which you LINK. You actually have to type/copy words/BS.

    • The Harvard “research” has been debunked, and the Everytown study wasn’t even worthy of the word.

      And it’s “fewer”, not “less”.

  13. I have to wonder if these politicians even bother to actually read the crap bills they sponsor and vote for.

  14. Brilliant observation in this article, and the key to the concept’s defeat: we must start calling these “Karen Laws”.

    That succinctly sums up our opposition to the concept, explains exactly what’s wrong with the idea, and explains it in terms that the leftists will clearly understand. No prog would ever vote for a Karen Law.

  15. This will turn into another political mess. What if all the people in charge of deciding who is a threat are democrats, they will make up false evidence just to disarm everyone.

  16. I am totally against red flag laws but if we live in a state that has one we need to petition our politicians to expand it to anyone that might have access to knives and motor vehicles too. Who could possibly not want that as I am sure such could save lives. More and more we are seeing knives and motor vehicles used in mass killings with a more recent one was a horrific slaughter of innocents including children in Wisconsin with a red SUV!

    https://theconversation.com/suv-tragedy-in-wisconsin-shows-how-vehicles-can-be-used-as-a-weapon-of-mass-killing-intentionally-or-not-172359

  17. I think there needs to be more teeth to these Red Flag laws. That is, the person who is turning in someone to be “Red Flagged” should not be anonymous. If they insist, the matter should immediately be dropped. The other person whose rights are being stolen should know who that person is who is “Red Flagging” them, and that person should be able to sue and take every last dime and property from the one who Red Flagged them, whether person or organization, or company. The person unjustly Red Flagged should also be able to force the other person (doing the Flagging) to pay for their lawyers and attorney’s fees he/she had to incur, just to PROVE their innocence. But that will never happen, because hell has not frozen over yet, and this is Stalin 2.0 we are living in.

  18. I can see a lot of “better safe than sorry” cases. Better “err on the side of caution” and take them guns, because their (police/admin) butts would be in a crack if it comes out they were aware and did nothing. Y’know, like we’ve found out about more than half of mass shootings in the last decade. (Oh, wait. Nothing happened there, either.)

  19. this governor sounds erratic… his security protection should be disarmed for the safety of the community

    • he’s an eastern lib…it’s the way they think…sure ticked off a lot of people when he shut down the liquor stores though…

  20. Seems like “red flag” laws are just a half measure for what the issue is, a mentally deficient person having a firearm.

    If a person is alleged to be such a danger to themselves or others, shouldn’t that result in an involuntary commitment.

    OK, say you’ve taken away the guns from a nominally suicidal or homicidal person. Do they also take away knives, rope, bats, or household chemicals? I’ll take things that can kill you just as dead as a firearm Alex…

    • Meaning, if you get into a discussion about “red flag” laws, say they don’t go far enough.

      This person who is to dangerous to possess firearms is still free to do whatever they want.

      People who are seriously threatening harm to others ought to be put under psychiatric observation and therapy.

      Then pass the popcorn.

    • a mentally deficient person having a firearm
      This is where they want your brain going. But the real problem with “mass shooters” isn’t mental deficiency so much as moral deficiency. Those folks will ultimately skate because they aren’t that mentally ill and can convince the judge they were just a little out of sorts and they are feeling muuuch better now*. And the judge isn’t even looking at whether or not they’re simply evil.

      (* Night Court reference)

    • nice to know we’re coming around to the realization that…yes,..women can lie…

  22. I might support red flag laws if:

    Applying to the court to modify the order automatically entitles the gun owner to the identity and residence of:

    The judge
    Each police officer
    The snitch

    Anyone who got one reversed for any reason, whether on a technicality or not, automatically gets $100,000 plus attorneys fees (both indexed for inflation because screw this crap), and the town, the judge, each police officer and the snitch are all personally and jointly and severally liable.

    Require that a bond be posted for those damages prior to issuing the order to remove the guns.

    No exceptions. Well, OK, maybe for illegal aliens.

    Then you’d have to be REALLY sure that there is fire under that smoke before you act peremptorily to negate a constitutional right.

  23. How about we do it their way, EXCEPT add:
    The due process to return the firearms and other rights and property removed entails an automatic finding against the first accuser for triple costs, and a minimum of $30,000 per day penalty against the police, the judge, and the accuser, each, if the charges are found unsubstantiated. Oh, and the due process requires a different judge than the original “due process” finding.

    Carey’s idea is good, too, but I’d make them EACH liable for a full penalty, meaning the more people that are in on it, the bigger the windfall for the victim is.

    • BTW, I also think the accusers, police, and judge should have their rights removed for an equivalent amount of time. (And, no, the cop should not get paid during the time he is forced to be unarmed.)

    • I like that, and give the $30,000 a day penalty to the person who has been Red Flagged. Lord only knows how much it will cost them to defend and prove their innocence to such Stasi, Gestapo-like creatures. Force them to fork over their own hard-earned money to the victim who had no say in anything. And hand over the weapons the weapons of the police officers, judge who ruled it was okay, and the one who did the Red Flagging over to the victim as compensation, as well, including some bullets just because.

  24. And what happens when, as, if it turns out that the ladies boyfriend problem is a figment of her imagination, she being unloved, unattended, ignored, lonely, seeking attention as some women might be. Some innocent guy is run through the legal, judicial wringer, possibly worse, as has happened. Who is responsible is a question demanding of answers, answers being few and far between.

  26. Governor Wolf is lying through his teeth. Due Process is exactly what’s missing from his little asinine cartoon. You’re being deprived of your property based upon the accusation from some third party, even though No Crime has been committed. You’re denied representation and the right to confront your accuser in court. You’re denied the right to present evidence on your behalf or witnesses in your favor. All before the government seizes your property. If that isn’t an absence of Due Process, then why did SCOTUS point this out in their ultra rare 9-0 Decision in Cagliari v Strom last fall? The Court ruled unanimously that Mr. Cagliari was deprived of his Due Process Rights.

  27. We use to live in PA. Wolf is one of the worst governors in the country. I would not trust anything he says. You know there is something wrong with Anyone who would put a transgender in his office of health secretary.

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