Remember: No one needs more than ten rounds of ammunition in a magazine. The very idea of a 15- or 17-round magazine is ludicrous, let alone 30 for a rifle. Any more than 10 (and let’s face it, you probably don’t need even that many) marks you as a gun-crazy idiot who’s just out to hurt someone.
Unless, of course, your home happens to be attacked by two or maybe even three Florida men criminals. Thieves who are apparently after your guns. That’s what a suburban Tampa man experienced earlier this weekend.
It happened early Friday morning in Wesley Chapel. Deputies were dispatched at 12:43 a.m.
Pasco County Sheriff Chris Nocco said the [homeowner] was home alone, playing video games, when he heard glass shatter toward the back of his house.
The homeowner grabbed a gun and began walking down his hallway, where he saw an armed intruder dressed in dark clothing and wearing a mask, Nocco explained.
Why did the intruders choose that particular home?
As for what led up to the shooting, the homeowner told law enforcement he was a gun enthusiast who posts pictures of his firearms to social media. So, he believes his house was targeted.
What would the world do without social media? Anyway . . .
The homeowner shot and killed the first intruder and then took out the second one, who was right behind the first.
At some point, one of the three intruders managed to fire a gun. But, the homeowner was able to shoot him, too, before his gun jammed.
The homeowner then got another firearm while the burglar who was still breathing tried to make a quick getaway. But he was stopped outside the house by a neighbor who was — you guessed it — also armed. ‘Merica.
The wounded would-be thief was later identified as Jeremiah Tramel and, as a part of this abortive criminal enterprise, he’s now on the hook for two murders.
“He is accountable for the deaths because it was during the commission of a felony that he was involved in that those two people died,” Sheriff Nocco said.
You’ll be positively gobsmacked to learn that . . .
According to Nocco, Tramel has previous charges on his record, including a battery arrest. Investigators say the other two intruders had records, too.
All in all, a happy ending for the homeowner, though we wouldn’t wish that experience on anyone. Still, we’re glad that he came out of it in one piece and lives in a jurisdiction that appreciates the rights of individuals to arm and protect themselves as they see fit.
And while the internet is forever, he’ll probably be doing a lot less posting of gun pics in the foreseeable future.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Exactly how I see all this ridiculousness associated with social media. Things in life that would have turned out very differently if people were less inclined to be show-offs.
Where are those pompous gun control zealots during a violent crime? Where gun control zealots always are during a murder, assault, robbery, child molestation, rape, kidnapping and home invasion: NOWHERE.
Gun controllers would likely claim that the victim was partly to blame for having guns in the first place. They’d argue that if he didn’t have guns this “senseless tragedy” would never have happened. Just owning guns makes you attractive to criminals who also want to own guns. Not having guns reduces crime.
Yep. And that girl in the miniskirt was just asking for it. If women didn’t dress that way, then rapists wouldn’t keep wanting to have sex with them. Hell, put all the women in burkas! Not having women visible reduces crime.
Gotta love that gun control logic.
+1 to Ing. Just what I was thinking and couldn’t have said it better.
“Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.”
All the way around, perps and victim…
Ain’t that the truth?
Here’s the deal, ONE robber breaks in, and gets shot.
THEN the second robber runs in … and gets shot.
THEN the third robber runs in … and gets shot.
Gun jams, third robber runs out. Likely he’d have been dead too if not for a jammed gun … and taxpayers would save a ton of money.
Home owners gun jammed? Must not have been a Glock or M1A. Please buy good guns and maintain them. Your life may depend on them, Nice article to read with my morning coffee, great way to start the day on a positive note. .
It was a Glock 9mm. His second gun was a Kriss Vector Carbine,
Names of the dead included in this report:
https://tampa.cbslocal.com/2020/07/11/pasco-home-invasion-teen-victim-shoots-all-3-suspects-2-dead-10/
Great. Homeowner reported as a “teen”. The anti’s will grab a hold of that aspect and take off running.
No, BG #3’s Glock jammed. It wold not surprise me to learn that BG’s gun had mixed ammo, e.g., a fo-tay in there. Homeowner apparently emptied his Glock than got the Vector.
Anything that involves mechanical engineering and moving parts can fail. The fact that his “Glock perfection” jammed is a good reminder on the importance of malfunction drills, anything can happen and it sometimes happen at the worse time and place.
It says teen, and his name isn’t being released because he’s a minor so, if I had to guess, he might have limp wristed the handgun in his heightened state if he was a reedy young kid. Regardless, he did awesome and more power to him.
“The Tampa Bay Times reports that the first gun the homeowner retrieved was a Glock 19 and the second was a Kriss Vector 10mm semi-automatic rifle”
So yes, his Glock 19 did jam. Fortunately it did not shoot him in the leg as well before hand either, so he’s very lucky.
Oh, so they can jam. Myth busted! This guy is an unintentional hero in more ways than one.
He likes showing off his guns so maybe the Glock was John Wick blinged out with flashy Chinese 3rd party parts…. I’m sure it looked great in the pictures.
Well also busts the lol only 9mm myth. With that said kinda jealous of a kriss vector 10mm as a backup.
If you are in CA you’ve got bigger problems than jams, imported parts, etc.
Indeed, and Californians are fleeing California in record numbers because of those problems. If you don’t live in California, then you have the problem of a California diaspora establishing itself in your state and turning it into California. Then my big problems become your big problems.
Bear with me, this is gonna take a minute to say.
People ask me why I don’t care for polymer frames fairly frequently. Being fair, I was always suspect of them, but really it’s more to do with personal experience these days. In particular, my recently deceased Sisters Mother-in-law’s Gen 2 Glock 19 is what cemented that firmly in mind, 12 years ago.
She was, and has been for about 15 yrs. on a not so gentle health decline, and required surgery @ Bethesda, which necessitated a flight. We took her to the airport, and she left said weapon in our care for the duration. Of course, the first thing I did, was to secure it upon return.
As per usual, check the chamber & mag ejection. First order of business. Except, it didn’t. At all.
Rotated in hand, and forcibly grabbed the base plate and pulled with ever increasing pressure. And then pulled some more, and more again, as it slowly slid out. Being equitable, this was her truck gun, and it spent quite a bit of time in Florida vehicle interior heating/cooling cycles. This gun, as far as I know, hasn’t been fired in decades. It sat in the center console of the truck. No house fire survivor was this one. Nothing more. Nothing less.
That said, the entire frame is heat warped, the sides are visibly bowed inwards into the well. Reinserting the mag was as much of a Herculean endeavor as removing it. Test fired it a bit, it still functioned otherwise perfectly, aside from the aforementioned issues.
Hence my entirely due & cemented firmly in mind skepticism of polymer as the base material of a weapon. I know, the argument of the validity of a sample size of one. However, it so happens that I held it in my own hands, and it is incontrovertible evidence evermore in my mind, regardless of what anyone else says, or thinks.
I don’t want a weapon that requires pampered climate control to be “reliable”, because that is the literal definition opposing the term. That’s my position, & I won’t be moved on it.
*straps on flame suit*
No flames from here. A G-23 was my Florida car gun for about 8 years, but it was cleaned and fired somewhat regularly and never experienced any of the plastic deformation you described. And it was stored in a zipped case under the driver’s seat, so it likely didn’t experience the high heat that one did stashed in the center console…
I have wondered what the max temperature that the polymer would tolerate before warping would occur. Does anyone know if there is published specs on this ?
Understandable, I’ve never seen another like that one either. Which is why I mentioned the sample size.
The circumstances here were admittedly, a little outside the norm. She owned a bar, and the vehicle stayed in the bereft of shade blacktop parking lot, day in, day out. Pretty much 16 hours a day, 340 plus days a year, for those most of those very same decades. She was a workaholic.
All considered, that is likely a large factor in play here, that most won’t ever experience. Goal wasn’t to induce paranoia in the masses, but only to explain my reasoning behind past comments I’ve made.
No idea Ed, I’ve never seen any data on the subject. I’m sure there is, though I’d suspect it’s probably kept close to chest by the manufacturers. Publishing such, would likely scare off at least a few potential customers.
Personal experience with such damned sure has kept me firmly in the all metal camp, lol. Although I do want a high cap Rowland conversion something fierce.
Based on my personal experience in the military 50 years ago I do not trust the m16 platform. Would not own an AR pattern rifle for this reason.
Am I depriving myself of a good weapon platform? Maybe. But there’s a bunch of good alternatives out there.
I do have a g19. In my personal experience these are decent, trustworthy firearms. Again, personal experience.
I have a cheap bolt action rifle. It is more accurate than it deserves to be for the price. It has a fixed magazine, with a polymer floor plate trigger guard piece. Even kept unloaded except for occasional use, the magazine spring has bowed the floor plate away from the gun body, far enough that the magazine metal slides down a little and cartridges will not cycle properly into the chamber. Someday I hope to make a steel copy of the floor plate that will stay in place like it should.
Deformation from heat is one issue, but I’m curious about deformation from water absorption. Thermoplastics are hygroscopic, and Florida has abundant moisture. Plus, repeated cycles of hot/humid to air-conditioned produces ample condensation. Any studies on water-warpage of polymer firearms? Just curious.
Good thing you pulled on your flame suit. If the frame was wrapped, it was not from heat sitting in the vehicle.
Glocks are made from “Polymer-2”. I can’t find the specifics on Polymer-2, other than it is a Nylon based plastic. I doubt it has worse tensile characteristics than regular Nylon.
Regular nylon has a melting point of 220C, as in around 428F. So you basically need a fire to melt it.
Its tensile strength of various Nylons run from about 16MPA (million pascals, about 2300psi) at 3.5% water absorption (about as “wet” as nylon can get) for the weakest Nylon I can find to about 150MPA. In a dry state at the same temperature they range from 20MPA to about 300MPA.
Which is a lot weaker than at room temperature where the various types range from about 30MPA to 3000MPA depending on wet/dry and the type of nylon.
So unless glove boxes in Florida get to be probably about 300F and perhaps a very large individual was sitting on it during those many years, it did not warp from heat.
There are good reasons for not wanting a polymer gun, suitability to handle high heat is not one of them (unless you regularly expose your guns to temperatures well in excess of 300F. Which the frame should never be close to anything like that. I doubt you could get the barrel in a pistol that hot even). Mostly you might want something heavier to absorb recoil. Or you want something that is slimmer, as polymer is thicker for the same strength as steel (but lighter).
BTW Nylon takes about 150 days to reach equilibrium with its environment for moisture absorption. Its about .7% change in dimensions when saturated compared to a 50% RH state. That’s pretty unlikely to result in the gun warping so badly it would not function. The guns literally are design to experience that kind of warping.
And that is regular nylon, not reinforced nylon which is more dimensionally stable. So a pin hole that was just perfect, is going to be a bit tight. The width of the gun would compress about .7% (BTW, if you notice, the actual slide surfaces are steel, not polymer and that isn’t going to change. And the slight increase in clamping pressure from the frame on these parts isn’t going to warp them). If you’ve also notices, Glocks tend to be pretty loose as it is. For a reason.
Steel expands from things also (though not from water). Your 16″ rifle barrel when heated 200C is going to expand by .1″
So if the ATF is going to test your barrel length and you think its really close to <16" for some reason, insist the ATF inspect conduct a few mag dumps right before they test it 🙂
A guy who is married to a woman that my brother once dated got his Glock wet in the rain. The frame on his Glock also warped, after he dried it off in the microwave oven.
Frankly, I know what the material properties are. I also know And the 2 year old level deriding comment from a drive by coward account speaks for itself. Comprehension failure on the part of drive by. I inspected it. I measured it with a micrometer. Not someone else, whose story I related, but my own.
The skepticism about online comments, while due, does not change the fact at hand. Point of fact, I just called my BiL, and he will be bringing it when they come down for Christmas. I will be happy to post the photos with the micrometer in photographic frame so you can see for yourselves.
At which time, I’ll happily see crow being eaten again. My Brother-in-law, who is a Glock fan boy, was in denial for years until faced with the fact in-hand. Pretty funny it was, watching him attempt to extract that magazine.
Matt, you forgot one very important detail. Since my actual reply was eaten by the moderation filter, I will address something I didn’t think of at the time.
Molecular expansion due to elevated temperature. Mentioned were the hydroscopic properties of the various sorts of nylon polymers, but did not arrive at the conclusion sitting right within your own comments. You might have inadvertently given the answer to the quandary.
That is to say, in this region extreme humidity levels are very common. Including, but infrequently, up to supersaturation values. Coupled with high internal vehicle temperatures, and the corresponding expansion of said materials would increase absorption rates due to the relaxed molecular structure. Conjecture, but worth investigation.
One thing that is for certain, the gun sat without a magazine in the well for an extended amount of time. There is no other explanation for the inward bowing of the grip’s level of severity, a mag inserted wouldn’t have allowed that much movement in the material.
As to the question of veracity, understandably, skepticism is due on the web. It’s something that’s kept me from speaking of it all of these years, as the gun in question isn’t mine, and is located several hours away from me. However, I spoke to my BiL, who now has possession, and asked him to bring it the next time they come down. Which will be at Christmas, at which time I’ll be happy to post high resolution images, with a micrometer in the well for verification.
Otherwise, you’re free to think whatever you like of the situation in the meantime. Matters not to what I observed with my own eyes, and measured myself. No amount of claim, disparaging, formulae, nor anything else will prove it impossible to the one whom observed the results.
A personal note: I must admit I took deep satisfaction while watching him (BiL) struggle with the magazine extraction after all those years of vehement denial. The apology, & corresponding look on his face was worth all the wealth in the world.
@ Matt once again.
You misunderstood, and perhaps I didn’t make myself perfectly crystalline. For that, I will accept fault. However, when I said the frame, I meant the entire length of the grip/magwell. I thought that would’ve been clear when I said,
“Test fired it a bit, it still functioned otherwise perfectly, aside from the aforementioned issues.”
Obviously indicating the rails were within tolerance, else I’d have never attempted to fire it at all. Regretting not writing an entire dissertation on every single point of the inspection operation to sidestep the ocd properties of the internet…
I’m no Glock fanboy, but if you were to ask me which was more likely to jam: a Glock 19 or a goofy meme gat, I’d pick the latter 9 times out of 10.
Most people don’t have back up guns. And Everyone needs to practice clearing a malfunction. It seems the “only” time a weapon jams, is when you really, really, need your gun to work NOW.
I don’t own any glocks. I don’t plan on buying one either. I think people are getting a false sense of security. When they buy “the famous glock, that never fails”.
I practice using snap caps all the time. In my long guns and handguns.
I don’t use social media at all, but have written reviews for some of my guns for TTAG. Glad this homeowner lived to learn that lesson.
Umm, Jeff…you realize that TTAG is a form of social media. Anyone searching about firearms can easily discover TTAG’s archives and your articles.
Just sayin’
It would be somewhat less connected and easily mined for useful information but yes everything posted is at some level searchable and an infosec risk.
I keep an archive of TTAG articles. They are very handy for: Research, technical information, gun politics, gun law, training, teaching etc.
It really does help with zeroing in on likely best purchases for later and what versions to avoid.
Random comments under a user name are not the same as Hi my real name is …. I work at …. Here are all my photos of my house car guns etc…
Awesome,,, more is always better…two less dirtbags to worry about, sounds like a party moment…🍻
Good guys +2, bad guys -2…
That’s hockey methodology!
For the viewing audience who are not hockey aficionados, hockey statisticians correlate goals for and goals against a team for each player of the team. When Player A is on the ice and anyone on his team (including himself) scores a goal, he gets a +1 added to his “plus/minus” score. When Player A is on the ice and the other team scores a goal, he gets -1 added to (technically subtracted from) his “plus/minus” score.
And it happened while the bad guys had a powerplay, that’s nuts! Hockey is the only sport I miss by the way, go Lightning!
Show them your barbecue gun and shoot them with your shity gun, maybe a yeet Cannon
Hey! Spread the word…robbing people’s homes can be very hazardous to your ability to continue breathing. The DEms want you to hand in all those nasty guns…Just call the police…Oh wait the DEms want to defund the police and send social workers instead…Yes one minute please, just stay on the line…I’m looking up the name of the social worker on call…
My AR is loaded with more than 10rounds😃
The homeowner’s lack of common sense OPSEC made him a target when he posted his guns on social media.
Keep your gunowner status to yourself to prevent robbery or government sponsored robbery (AKA GVRO). It is better to prevent a situation than have to shoot your way out of a situation. Hope the homeowner does not have a lengthy legal battle.
hhhmmm,
People displaying ‘come and take it’ and gadsden flags on their homes and vehicles.
True but they make for great neighbors up here. Not much in home invasions outside of Albany for some reason.
Eff that.
I’m not going to hide my hobbies or interests and I shouldn’t have to.
Also, hiding that we are gun owners just plays to the antis by making it look abnormal and like there are less of us than there are.
How many times have you read an anti gun article or news story where someone said “I don’t know anyone who owns a gun.” and you thought “Yeah, right. You just don’t know anyone who will tell you that they own a gun.”
The reason they are not told about the guns owned by those they know is precisely for the how likely they are to tell the world via ‘news stories’. It’s no ones business what guns I own (if any) anymore than the brand of underwear I choose (if any).
You don’t have to hide anything. That’s part of open carry in many places. There is a world of difference between ‘hiding’ and exercising wisdom. Hiding is for underground rebellion in communistic dictatorships. It is better to surprise criminals with overwhelming opposing force.
I never felt that I needed other peoples praise on social media. Remember a quote from Don Corleone in the Godfather, ” Never let anyone know whats under your finger nails “. Good advice.
Crimson,
Wore my Infowars Moaon Labe t-shirt to the Emmaus Farmers Market, today. Tho people stopped me to express support for the 2.
I do not advertise guns or the 2A on my car or home. We do display a large USA flag. However, when I am out-and-about, I will advertise the greatness of this country, including the 2A, on my person.
In other words, agreeing with you: not hiding, but careful as to where and when.
Always glad to see your posts.
Shouldn’t haffa blah blah blah – Shouldn’t haffa conceal that you store __months of food to feed your family, have a backup genset for your home, have a Bailout location/refuge for your family, keep cash in the home for emergency? Perhaps (not) but only a moron would reveal such.
In this (Pasco) county, he’s not going to have any legal battle. Our prosecutors aren’t looking to make criminals out of ordinary citizens defending themselves.
This is not a bad place to live.
Perhaps no lengthy costly criminal legal battles but you forget civil courts. The place where families of the deceased file lawsuits because their son, or daddy is dead at the hands of a gun-toting braggart so anxious to kill he listed and even displayed photos of his arsenal online. Probably posted many comments here and there about woe to those who mess with his stuff. All that stuff is online forever, even when you have taken it down. This guy is a true schmuck. Probably it will be pointed out that his doors were unlocked just begging for a poverty stricken intruder to enter looking for something to feed his family. Why even the neighbor was involved in this trap! If he prevails his attorney will still have a bill for him. He might be buying a Bryco with what is left of his savings but trust me nobody will brag about that online.
If you leave a ladder leaning against a building someone will climb it and fall and you will pay.
“Hope the homeowner does not have a lengthy legal battle.”
*Highly* doubtful, it’s Florida, after all. Rather pro self-defense oriented by the prosecutors.
Just one county over from Polk county, where sheriff Grady “Blow BLM looters out the back of your house” Judd was just re-elected to another term in office… 🙂
Don’t put your money on that, I’m in one myself in Fl.
True enough Geoff but let’s face it – Sheriff Grady ran unopposed for the – what? 6th time? Grady Judd is going to be Polk County sheriff as long as he wants to be. Or until he runs for Governor.
I’ll be very surprised if he goes for Governor – I think politics kinda makes him queasy.
He has a pretty sweet deal as it is right now…
I don’t think gun owners need to be in the closet about owning guns. Firearms need to be viewed as common as a skillet.
In my state, if you’re looking to steal a gun, pretty much any house would do.
That is why I support open carry. But you have to be smart about it. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to this. You don’t open carry a long gun, when you for go shopping for groceries.
Why? Because it scares the livestock and causes miscarriages to women? What’s the difference? Mainstream media’s lies about long guns being prevalent in mass shootings?If you want to be offended by a sight of a firearm, you will get offended even if it’s just a pistol. If you don’t, the rifle or shotgun on a sling will not raise your blood pressure. A gun is a gun.
Now he just needs to post graphic pictures of the dead and wounded burglars to his social media and posting gun pictures won’t be a security issue anymore.
Oh hell yeah, bragging about the caliber of gun they used and the gun!!, we should get a website started and make tags and rules on where to tag them and the season, LOL…… look guys, OJoe over in Colorado got him one with a Colin Kaepernick Jersey on, oh but you didn’t tag him in the right spot !!! Fine him $5
+1 & Agreed
They used to take “at ask,” risk teenagers to mourges to view what happens when you at like a thug.
I agree 100%. Looking at the pictures would make it clear to the fools that you will defend yourself, when you are home. That said; what about when you are not home?
On another subject: RED FLAG LAW’S!
Has anyone else though about the fact that if I want asalt someone, and want to be sure that they are unarmed, the best way to do it would be to file a red flag report on them?
In defense of Glocks: yes they can jam with bad ammo but… any jam can be cleared with a half a second rack and slide, contrary to a 1911 which may have to be sent to a gunsmith to clear a stovepipe. Short story: Once, over a 3 day weekend at Sig Sauer Academy, we shot 1500 rounds each (of low quality ammo to keep price low). I had one jam (out of 1500 rounds) on the third day in the middle of a friendly competition. I cleared my Glock in a second and survived the round. Another guy had same thing happen with a $4000 custom 1911 and could not clear jam. He lost competition, not his life.
Lesson learned: only use high quality ammo in your weapons for self defense, pratice, pratice, pratice and make sure that you know and can clear fast any jam. Glocks are ugly, grip angle sucks (compared to a 1911) but…. they are reliable
C C I agree and avoid limp wresting a Glock.
I can imagine with the high numbers of glock 19’s in the hands of new gun owners, there’s going to be a lot of initial limp wristing and shooting low-left. A lot of range and dryfire time cure those issues.
I had a S&W semi-auto handgun, several decades ago. When I first heard about “limp wristing”, I purposely held the gun as loosely as I could without dropping it, and fired it. It worked perfectly every time. If you need to hold a gun a particular way for it to function properly, else it will jam, then there is something wrong with that gun, like a too-stiff recoil spring that is on the verge of failing on its best day.
Try the Polymer80 – it’s a Glock with the grip angle of a 1911. And also, it’s somehow not as ugly as a Glock.
I wouldn’t own a Glock, damned things disgust me.
But I have never had a jam in one of my Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Colt or other major American gunmaker’s handgun when using typical factory ammo. I have seen it with some cheap guns I’ve owned. Also very worn older guns and rifles too and yes with reloads.
Know a guy that fixed all his 1911 feeding problems by buying a new factory crimp die for his reloading bench. After that, smooth sailing.
Other than that all experience with jamming has been on rifles, and 100% turned out to be magazines.
Surely just giving up your guns and letting them have them and cooperating would have been better. Are your guns worth a human life? People have insurance.
Just kidding of course.
Had me for a moment, and before the last line, looked up to see the name. Nope, sarcasm. Dripping, puddling on the floor sarcasm. 😀
@9×39
I had be real careful because some folks here don’t recognize sarcasm even if its PAINFULLY obvious.
I’ve made numerous satirical comments here only to be taken seriously. Now at the end I have to put (sarc) or some other disclaimer that I’m just kidding folks, keep your panties on.
Most of my closest friends have never seen my guns. Most of time have one in reach. In 30 years of conceiled carry one person said you have a gun. The way I was setting and where she was setting it showed. Then she took hers out to show me.
“The way I was setting and where she was setting it showed. Then she took hers out to show me.”
That could have been the beginning of a very pleasant evening… 🙂
Good one !
100 ‘gray man’ points for hiding your shame.
Most of my closest friends not only seen my guns, they also shot most of them. And I shot theirs.
Last weekend I took my friend’s sister in law to the range for first time in her life. She had great time and wants to go again. I lost count of how many first timers I brought to shooting. If I kept low profile with my guns, who would convert the fence sitters to the dark side?
We live in evil times my friends! When you cant show off your stuff and look at other people’s stuff. Sad!!! But obviously true. Keep the Tula ammo outta the Glock and keep em in the A zone!
Good for the homeowner! Now there are two more bangers that have assumed room temp. Unfortunately, the thug that survived will probably plea bargain his charges down and be out in a couple of months.
Another one (two) bites the dust! Hey Hey 🤣
He’ll do 15 years. They don’t screw around with that crap in Pasco County.
Preach it. Maybe 15 years for each of the 2 charges. He’s going nowhere for good long spell.
And good riddance…
Raiford isn’t as bad as it was in the 70’s but it’s still no picnic. After the last couple of weeks, I couldn’t imagine sleeping at night with no a/c. Just put me in Ol’ Sparky if I’m doing life.
@ Klaus
*Grins ear to ear*
Was just saying roughly the same a couple of days ago. Question posed was, “How in the 9 levels of hell did my ancestors even sleep in this state before HVAC existed?”
Then again, I was wearing a long sleeve hoodie for most of the day yesterday, w/ a 108 F heat index.
Never malfunctions,,, wait for it,,, until you need to depend on it.
Punks have been emboldened by other punks on TV who got away with looting, bullying and arson. Notice there were not one but 3 perps to increase bullying strength by numbers as shown on TV. There is one problemo punks do not understand. Punks do not have a clue how ready and willing America is to smoke criminal ratbassturds providing the law gives cornered victims of violence a clear green light to proceed.
It is interesting the similarity that has to American soldiers in international conflicts.
What an absolute idiotic thing to say. Want to provide some examples there jerk off?
Before you go looking for things to be easily offended by and give half baked sorta kinda maybe twisted platitudes…
If government bureaucrats would green light our soldiers and allow them to do the things they need to do, we would not lose so many of them to needless skirmishes with fights that can easily be won but get prolonged for the stupidest of reasons. This has been going on for many decades. I’m talking about THEIR ‘rules of engagement’.
My apologies. There’s so many idiot lefties posting it’s hard to sort it all out.
As seen on TV!
Yep, and I believe the usual alphabet of broadcasters are guilty of making it seem like the thugs (mostly peaceful protesters) are getting away with their thuggery. They are happy to encourage any kind of lawless behavior if it hurts Trump or the GOP.
The hyphenated-Americans have no idea how they have overplayed their pair of 2s hand and how much the avg American is feed up with their “Racism” BS.
Joe Biden asks” Why couldn’t he just shoot the guns out of their hands?”
Ha!
or at least wing them in the shoulder!
or shoot em the knee, a totally humane thing to do :p
Or shoot them in the leg? Preferably in the femoral artery LOL.
There, shotguns reign supreme. Legging. May I suggest #4 and a duck bill @ 8 meters or less? Femoral shots are great against armor you can’t penetrate, but wholesale removal of the legs is better for faster exsanguination.
Wonder what SloMoJoe would do if he knew his beloved scatter gun could do that? Well, not his, doesn’t work for double’s. :p
Ok, before anyone thinks about taking that angle. Forget it. Those things are a massive liability in a non-riot defensive shoot. Remember kiddies, attached to every one of those pellets is a lawyer waiting downrange. They enhance spread, horizontally, meaning mo’ fliers, and a larger chance of hitting something, or one, unintended…
None of my many revolvers EVER failed for any reason. So far 3,300 rounds. My ammo is Hornady and Buffalo Bore.
The SemiAutos use Gold Dots, Winchester FMJs (Target practice). Of course, every once in a while a stovepipe remind me to hold on with a vise like grip.
My trouble is that the revolvers don’t need such a grip, so when I change to semi autos at the range I have to remember….
I have looked at the Glocks, they felt chintzy and just didn’t feel right in my hands. All of my guns are metal all the way….
I agree with the posters about things are getting out of control when you can’t show or talk about your goodies. I personally have done it many times, but never under my own name and through a VPN.
But I am very happy the homeowner did an excellent job under difficult conditions.
Dirtbags are to be ground up and spit out….
Steel slide, steel frame, steel magazine and follower.
No fan of polymer here. My first handgun was a Glock 19. Worked great with FMJ hardball but wouldn’t trust it with certain types of HP rounds, so bought a SIG instead. Amazingly enough, they put a plastic recoil spring guide rod in the SIG and I swapped it out with a 304 stainless rod instead.
It made a good gun even better. I’ve heard people call the P239 a “boat anchor” but that’s their opinion.
A near perfect outcome!
Damn shame two young men are dead, one going to prison likely for life and their families are left grieving. But the fault is their own, they made bad choices and reached the most appropriate ending for their chosen way of life.
Marsy’s Law refers to a Crime Victim Bill of Rights law that was first passed in California and later in a handful of other States. It includes a provision for restitution to the victim.
In this case the victim should receive all firearms, ammunition, personal effects of any value owned by the three would-be killers. Automobiles, cash in their wallets or bank accounts, whatever they own give it to the victim or sell it at auction and give the victim a check.
That’s not the law of course, but it ought to be.
NOT a shame. 100% that these 3 twits should have been capped long ago and spared many others pain and suffering.
Where is the physical description of the POS??? Can I stereotype?
My shocked face NOT
https://www.wpxi.com/news/trending/florida-homeowner-playing-video-games-fatally-shoots-2-intruders/PYKCGSPTNFCTPGMQLZYQ7FJFG4/
How do we all get a sheriff like that?
Lost track of the number of favorable mentions of 2A and the constitution.
More than half of Florida Sheriffs are pretty much like that. Unfortunately, they all get painted in the same light as some on the southeast coast like Palm Beach or Broward under Scott Israel. They are outliers in the grand scheme of things in Florida. Get up in NW Florida like Walton or Okaloosa county (where I shot on the the Sheriff’s Dept team in the 70’s as a non-department member) and you will find no-nonsense, constitutional, law enforcement.
“How do we all get a sheriff like that?”
The next county over has sheriff Grady “Because they ran out of bullets” Judd.
In central Florida it’s a *guarantee* LE will never abandon a precinct or sheriff station to a rioting mob, they will open fire (and likely laugh while doing so) first … 🙂
That after they fire up the big green egg with a couple of slabs of ribs on it.
I can see Orange Cty and particularly Orlando as being the exception in central FL.
Posting your entire life on Fakebook, Instaturd and Twitless. Is not real Intelligent. Prime example here and my wife’s aunt. They posted of Fakebook(No Privacy settings)for weeks how they were planning a vacation and would be gone for 10 days. At some point in the foolishness they decided it would be a good idea to post their itinerary. when they were leaving and coming home. Along with all the wonderful places they planned to attend. They had a great time. Posting photos the whole time they were gone. Forward to getting home. They opened the front door to their house and thought they were at the wrong address. The house was virtually cleaned out. Nearly everything was gone. seems while they were gone a moving truck arrived and loaded up. not really knowing their neighbors all that well. The neighbors thought nothing of it. This happened in Kansas City. Three and half years ago. They no longer use Fakebook…
A commercial in the 70s went – “The neighbors didn’t know the Smiths were moving. Neither did the Smiths.”
Get to know your neighbors…
I worked with a guy named Kevin Happy in 1980 at Fairchild-Republic in Hagerstown Md Kevin sent his paycheck home to CT every week except for what he needed to live on. He went home at Thanksgiving to find his home empty down to the carpets. His wife wasn’t found for 6 years. She had split and moved to California.
Be careful of who you are married to.
The homeowner killing two and wounding a third is very impressive. But the cherry on top is a neighbor assisting to capture the surviving would-be killer to join the fight and hold him at gun point. That makes this more than just one citizen standing up to criminal scum, it is a community effort and an outstanding example of how any home invasion crime should turn out. Both the victim and his neighbor deserve commendation from the city and county for services performed to the community at great risk to their own lives.
Of course people should have the right to talk openly about the stuff they own, their hobbies and pursuits. Just be aware of the risks you are taking in this modern world of anti-social media, how scum will look to take evil advantage of your identity.
Me, I began some twenty years ago actively taking down all mentions of myself on social media. Today my searches for myself, including keywords to narrow the focus, turn up nothing. That is the way I like it. No social media links to my guns, no stickers on my vehicles.
Remember always when posting your private details and any info that can identify you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guOYDWXQe7E
Operational Security. Live it.
This is the lefts point exactly. There where only three burglars so people should only be allowed to own a three round magazine or three muzzle loaders or have an on call social worker to deescalate the situation. Honestly. It’s just common sense.
All left leaning gun control concepts are outgrowths of the Hoplophobic thinking that guns cause negative human behaviors, rather than negatively behaving humans using whatever they damned well please to commit violence.
That’s the root of it.
Straight up
No. That’s only what the Left feeds to their useful idiots. In reality, all leftist gun control stems from desire to get more centralized power and to take the power away from the people. Leftists know that there is no chance Americans would hold still for the glorious socialistic revolution, unless they are disarmed first.
After decisively resolving a home invasion, immediately call 911 to request a social worker to drag away the DRT perps, and clean up the mess in your house for you. Only possible value of a social worker…….bring their own body bags and cleaning supplies.
‘The Onion’ (theonion.com) reports a story about a new social media app. Allows one to just enter all their personal information right up front on a convenient form. Saves a heck of a lot of time attracting the right ‘friends’. And it’s secure!
Florida man shoots three home invaders, kills two. PLEASE tell me it was moe and Larry who caught the fatal doses of high speed lead , Curly is my favorite stooge.
CC – I’ve had a somewhat different experience. Over the last 10 years as match director of local competition, and as a RSO at others, I’ve only seen three catastrophic failures, and two of those were Glocks. By catastrophic I mean a failure that could not be corrected without disassembly and/or parts replacement.
First was a GLOCK 23 that half way through a match just jettisoned it’s slide on the admin load. Notable was the look on the competitors face as he stared down at the cartridges now visible in the grip frame, and the hush that went over the gallery. You could argue that’s a maintenance issue and springs should’ve been changed, but that’s generally true of catastrophic failures in all guns, 1911s or otherwise.
Second was competitor who took a tumble, tripping over a trigger wire. He rolled over, GLOCK 17 remained in holster. He retired to the safety table, brushed the sand off, racked a couple times, and all seemed good. Returned to match and experienced a dead trigger. Again to bench for disassembly and blow out with compressed gas. Returned to match again with same result.
Third was a Beretta 92 that broke a firing pin.
By far most stoppages I’ve seen have been due to reloaded ammo, magazines, home gunsmithing, or operator error, and those affect pistols across the board.
Now, I’ve never owned a $4,000 anything, so no experience with one, but imagine that piece was tuned to the extreme to the detriment of reliability. Or they’re shooting their own reloads;)
Sorry to say some low life lawyer will get involved with an excessive force law suit. These three fine upstanding youths were just turning their lives around and starting to lead fine upstanding lives wiped out by this vicious psychotic gun owner just waiting to use them. BLM will probably be by to burn this psycho’s house down and hang him from a street light. They probably were just there to play video games with the home owner and they probably were winning so he went off the deep end because he was losing. Note this is sarcasm!!!!
Two of three losers who won’t bother anyone again and hopefully the third will be too old when he gets out of prison he won’t be able to either. Hope I’m wrong and he doesn’t get sued but it’s happened before.
Very unlikely, a rare event in clear cut cases of self defense. If that is tried, very likely to be tossed out by the first judge who receives the case.
Thieves love to find cars in casino, stadium, auditorium and other parking lots with NRA, 2nd Amendment, or other patriotic bumper stickers identifying the auto owner as a potential gun owner in states with readily availible concealed carry permits. Many businesses that refuse to allow anyone to enter armed, forces the gun carrier to leave his weapon in the car. Bottom line, do not advertise and you probably will not be targeted
Video games, yeah right! He was probably yanking his PUD and got Astroglide all over it and the slippery sonofabitch slid out of his hand across the room… the gun I mean
Jammed ready pistol. I don’t think it matters what brand of ‘at the ready pistol’ is involved. Most common fault that leads to failure is magazine springs. You load it up and let is sit for however long and don’t unload or swap magazines and in the end you kill the spring. Fortunately he got three shots off. If one chambered then only two from magazine. I had a Beta CMag loaded. Was supported to last three years without damaging the springs, NOT. Those replacement springs are hard to find. My ready pistol is a Springfield, those tactile features are essential when the glass breaks in the night. I have to down load and swap magazines every three months. And maybe that is not often enough.
If you leave a mag fully loaded for 30 years, I can see that being an issue, otherwise I really don’t believe it.
Quality springs will last. I had a custom magazine made for one of my competition rifles. The spring lasted about a year before I started to get misfeads. Replaced the spring with a cut down Steyr AUG spring. It has lasted over 20 years with no issues.
We need more Sheriffs like Chris Nocco. This was a happy ending story and the Sheriff properly identified the victim. He has his head grounded in reality and not in politics or Marxist Social Justice.
Game, Set, Match 👍🍺
“Remember: No one needs more than ten rounds of ammunition in a magazine. The very idea of a 15- or 17-round magazine is ludicrous, let alone 30 for a rifle.” I know this is sarcastic, but Hawaii HB1902 is likely to pass soon, making rifle magazines more than 10 rounds illegal to buy or transfer (for non-LEOs), and there is very little news coverage of this.
When will Democrats admit that magazine capacity restrictions for the public (but not LEOs) do not “make it safe” from known, mentally-deranged violent criminals who have no respect for others and do not follow the law? These “high-capacity” magazines make civilians safer from multiple attackers.
This bill HB1902 is still moving forward in the Hawaii state legislature. It would prohibit sale or transfer of magazines over 10 rounds. It is already prohibited to sell or transfer pistol magazines of more than 10 rounds. On 7/8/2020, the Hawaii State Senate rceived notice of House intent to agree to the amendments proposed by the Senate.
If I remember correctly, the bill is a response to the January 19, 2020 incident, where two Honolulu police officers responding to the scene of a stabbing near Diamond Head were shot and killed during a violent sequence of events that is believed to have ended when the suspected killer died after setting fire to the home he was hiding in. The 69-year-old murderer had a history of mental instability, with symptoms including delusions that he was being tracked by the Secret Service and FBI. Court records also show numerous restraining orders had been filed against Hanel by three neighbors. But because this mentally-deranged murderer used an AR-15 to murder 2 police officers, the Honolulu Police Chief Susan Ballard made an appeal for legislative proposals to ban rifle magazines that hold more than 10 bullets and for new restrictions on the sale of ammunition. Some Hawaii State lawmakers said this bill would close loopholes and prevent gun-related crimes.
“We’re asking them to please, please pass these bills, for law enforcement, for all of our public safety, for the safety of our officers, for the safety of our community,” Ballard said. “These bills are there to make it safe.”
HB1902 HD2 SD
Measure Title:RELATING TO FIREARMS.Report Title:Firearms; Large-Capacity Magazine; ProhibitionDescription:Prohibits the manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds, regardless of the type of firearm with which the magazine is compatible. Allows possession of large-capacity magazines that were legally possessed prior to the effective date of this Act. Allows acquisition by means of inheritance of large-capacity magazines that were legally in possession prior to the effective date of this Act. Allows possession and use by law enforcement agencies and officers. Allows the use of blank-fire assault weapons and detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds for use solely as props for motion picture film or television program production when authorized by the chief of police of the appropriate county and not in violation of federal law. (SD2)
Can’t have people resisting the Chinese invasion. They are called the “People’s Liberation Army”. Ready to liberate you from your wealth, property, freedom, and life
Po po jerrimiah his mama is proud
See, honey, it may look like I’m just playing Mass Effect until 3am, but I’m also guarding the house.
On a different note, I wonder what social media he was posting on. Facebook would block those posts faster than you could reload.
AH heck, I just keep a 1911 or CZ metal gun for social encounters. Spad
“As for what led up to the shooting, the homeowner told law enforcement he was a gun enthusiast who posts pictures of his firearms to social media. So, he believes his house was targeted…”
So the guy posts photos on public media and then assumes that’s why he was targeted because someone broke in? Why? And why would he only think it made him a target now when he saw no problem with it before? Maybe instead of just guessing they could ask the surviving guy.
People think that the movies are like real life and that bands of desperados are always planning a big score after doing a bunch of research. 99% of burglars are not like that. If they were smart they wouldn’t be burglars going after someone with guns. They’re largely opportunists. Unless these guys are known to him it’s much, MUCH more likely that they either chose his house for other reasons (looked like a soft target, not well-lit, easy escapes, etc), saw gun stuff at the scene (bumper stickers, guns displayed visible through window, etc) or one of them was at the house for some other reason… part of a work crew or something.
I have nothing against people who delete their social media because ‘op-sec’ (lol) but it doesn’t mean you’re not a target.
I wonder if there is any common denominator between the 3 criminals?
I’m 70 and was never into guns. Shot pheasant as a teenager and my old man had loaded handguns in his bedroom but I had no desire to shoot or learn about guns. My young son however is very much into guns. We now have about 2 dozen guns from WWII K98s to Mausers, to AR 10 and AR 15s, 303 Enfields and SKS, AK 47s along with Glock 19, 1911, other various Lugers and 38s and other 9mm handguns. I am learning lots more about guns and shooting more than I ever dreamed. I’m still a bit of a Liberal but I’ll never give up my guns!
Owning guns for historical and educational reasons is as good as any other. Passing on what you’ve learned is as good as it gets.
July 4, 1976.
My dad took out the scoped Marlin .22LR and dug up a small dirt backstop in the back yard. We used a wooden ladder as a rest. It was a good day.
“I’m still a bit of a Liberal but I’ll never give up my guns!”
Then do us a favor and vote for who will let you keep them…
Good for you. Better late than never. Keep learning and one day you may find out that K98 is a Mauser. 😜
we don’t play in the south
Not even with your sister or cousin?
Bless this homeowner. On a side note, I’m willing to wager his jammed Glock was “upgraded” and was not OEM factory stock.
Three stacked perps. Maybe there is a place for FMJ in your defensive loadout; would have made a great penetration test.
…a la “Deadpool”!
Practice, practice, practice !!!%
Those deriding the Glock for jamming are forgetting that this was a high stress situation and he may have merely limp-wristed the gun. That can easily cause a jam and, as others pointed out, knowing how to clear a jam under stress ids important. His backup gun might have been so close that he was comfortable just switching and not wasting time trying to clear it.
Sheriff: “Sir, why did you killed two of the three home invaders?”
Homeowner: “Because my gun jammed”.
I love a happy ending.
I find that his Glock was probably not stock, Although no manufacture produces a perfect product all of the time. I have three Glocks, one has way in excess of 10, 000 (ten thousand) rounds through it and not one failure. The Glock is like the small block Chevy of guns. Somethings just work.
When in the army we had 1911’s (yes I am that old) and at almost every range day, someone would have the slide exit the receiver. These were old 1911’s many probably left over from the 1st world war. Nothing is perfect.
As to the article: If three or more contestants for the room temp challenge attempted to enter my home, I prefer a Glock or Pump shotgun. I like things that work.
Luis Casado 21, Kyhle Durham 21 are the dead. The three were known violent criminals.
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