For those who haven’t read about it yet, there was a mass shooting Saturday at a grocery store in Buffalo, New York. The shooter drove several hours to find a place he thought would have the greatest concentration of African Americans and few people carrying guns. He then used a rifle to kill ten people and injure three others.
In this article, I want to go through what information we can find about this tragedy with the goal of giving readers good information they can use to keep themselves safe from similar attacks in the future.
The Shooter’s Motivations Are Important
While I don’t wish to spread the shooter’s deranged message of hatred and racism, it’s important that we look at this shooting for exactly what it is. To do anything else would be to bury our heads in the sand and potentially leave ourselves vulnerable to sick people who will eventually be inspired to violence by these shooters.
The kind of person who would conduct a mass shooting of unarmed people in a grocery store won’t be stopped by hiding information. Hopefully we can save some innocent lives by learning what we can from the shooter’s manifesto (which you can find here, in full).
To be clear, the manifesto is clearly the product of a diseased mind, but there are a few important things we can glean from it.
First, the shooting wasn’t the lone act of a depraved individual. It’s part of a trend that readers should be aware of. The shooter specifically mentions other mass shooters as inspiration, including those responsible for the El Paso shooting in 2019, the 2011 bombing and mass shooting in Norway, the Charleston church shooting in 2015, the Poway synagogue shooting in 2019, and the Christchurch mosque shootings in 2019. Not only did he learn tactics and methods from the previous killers, but he shares a similar ideology.
While the manifestos and statements from these previous murderers differ in important ways from that of the Buffalo shooter, a common thread among them is concern that people of European descent are being replaced. The “thinking” here goes that white people aren’t having enough children, and that they’re being intentionally replaced by other races because minorities tend to have more children and come in as immigrants.
The Media Paints With A Broad Brush
Immediately after the attack, media outlets and left-leaning social media accounts set out to smear anyone on the right side of the political spectrum with blood from the attack.
While recent polling shows that 1 in 3 American adults share this concern to some degree, what sets these murderers apart is they think terrorism is the solution. The shooters think that by attacking minorities, they’ll discourage them from moving to predominantly white countries or staying in them.
The Broader Conspiracy Theory and Who Might Be Next
It’s worth noting that the Buffalo shooter (like some of the others) places the Great Replacement conspiracy theory into a broader narrative of a supposed Jewish conspiracy to dominate the planet, and he finds ways to shoehorn other groups he dislikes into the alleged plot as well.
He writes that transgender people (under the guidance of a Jewish media and activism cabal) contribute to replacement by becoming infertile instead of making white babies. People of East Asian descent, he says, are good people, but should stay in Asia while Islamic people are bad, and are intentionally trying to replacing whites.
The Buffalo attack wasn’t meant only to intimidate black people.
Whatever your feelings on any of the above, the key takeaway from this is that if you’re part of any “controversial” group (LGBT, Jewish, Islamic, Hispanic, black, etc.), you should realize that there are people out there — though very small in number — who want to hurt you and your friends. If you frequent places where there’s a high concentration of potential targets (i.e. synagogues, mosques, black neighborhood stores, gay bars), you and those who run these spaces should be taking this threat seriously and coming up with a reasonable action plan for such an attack.
While it’s a complex topic (one that I’m willing to help people navigate), the basic idea is to make your venues harder targets to attack. When shooters see that you’ve got good security measures, they’ll probably go somewhere else where they have a better chance of racking up a higher body count.
This Advice Applies Broadly
Really, this is something any gathering place should consider, whatever the types and ideologies of the people who meet there may be. Gatherings of any kind without putting some effort into keeping the people there safe is irresponsible. Do the right thing and keep the sheep safe from the wolves, because even if this particular brand of deranged mass killer wouldn’t target your people, as we know from sad experience, some other kind will.
The Attack Itself
To help readers see what they’re up against, we’re going to share a link to the graphic video the shooter livestreamed from a camera mounted to his helmet.
Once again, the intent here isn’t to glorify the shooter or his cause, as much as to drive home that this is not only a grave threat, but one that you can mentally and physically prepare for.
* * * CAUTION: The video is VERY graphic. * * *
You can download the video here (H.265 Codec required), but don’t watch it if you’re disturbed by violence and don’t watch it at work or around children. The video is also available here.
Again, the video is GRAPHIC and DISTURBING. You have been warned.
Between the video, the shooter’s manifesto, and media reports, there’s a lot of useful information we can learn if we study this attack.
Situational Awareness Is Key
The biggest thing you can do to improve your odds in such an attack is to pay attention. Some of the first people to die did nothing to avoid getting killed because they didn’t notice that a man parked in an unusual spot (the crosswalk in front of the store) while wearing military-style gear including safety glasses and a helmet. Then they didn’t notice that the man exited his vehicle with a rifle in a ready-to-fire condition (i.e. not slung).
While not everyone who was shot in the beginning stood much of a chance, buying yourself a few precious seconds to become a moving target can make a big difference. Getting behind some kind of cover or concealment would be even better.
Doing both of the above while returning fire with your own gun would be even better, but your opportunity to do any of this is lost if you don’t see and recognize the threat before it’s too late.
Today’s Shooters Are Preparing For Armed Opposition
It’s worth noting that the shooter planned to face opposition from a security guard — which he did — and possibly from a civilian with a concealed weapon. He shot and killed the guard in an exchange of fire (after the end of the video) by wearing body armor.
The killer minimized his chances of having to deal with an armed civilian by choosing a place with strict gun laws. Like other recent mass shooters, he didn’t plan to kill himself or die fighting police.
There are several takeaways here:
First, if you’re going to carry a weapon for self defense, be prepared to face the threat of a person wearing body armor. If you’re a security guard (or the owner of the establishment hiring security), you should consider having a rifle readily available instead of relying strictly on a pistol. That would both improve power against armor and improve shot placement.
If a rifle isn’t a good option for whatever reason (i.e., you can’t get it approved by a corporate office, it isn’t legal, or you’re a concealed carrier and can’t reasonably or legally carry a rifle), work hard on your shot placement. The standard Failure Drill, also known as the Mozambique Drill (two shots to center of mass, one to the head) was designed for this kind of situation. When upper torso shots fail to incapacitate, targeting the central nervous system, which really can’t be protected by armor or a helmet, is the next logical move to stop the attack.
Even if a mass shooter chooses to use face armor, such armor is generally not very effective at preventing incapacitation. It may help them survive long enough to get to a hospital, but terrorists like the Buffalo killer want to maximize body count. Shooting them in the face is still the best way to stop them.
This will require more practice and proficiency, and may not be reasonably possible with the smallest pocket pistols, but it’s a skill and capability worth practicing and developing.
Anti-Gun Laws Attracted The Shooter
We do need to point out that the State of New York, especially the legislature, bears some responsibility for the loss of life here. The shooter specifically chose to exploit a weakness that New York intentionally created with their strict “may issue” (often “no issue” in practice) concealed carry permitting.
Sheriffs who won’t issue permits to anyone but the wealthy and well-connected are also to blame. The Buffalo killer lived in a small town on the New York/Pennsylvania border, closer to Philadelphia than to Buffalo. But he chose Buffalo because of New York’s stricter gun laws. New York gun control laws leave people helpless in the face of such dangers.
Here’s a passage from the shooter’s manifesto:
Hopefully the Supreme Court has the same spine they apparently showed on the abortion ruling that recently leaked to press. Many anticipate that the Court will do right by gun owners in their New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen and end “may issue” concealed carry laws. The ruling will be issued by the end of the Court’s current term.
Don’t Assume Deranged Shooters Aren’t Prepared
It’s tempting to think that mass shooters are insane, which is true on a broad level. After all, they’re doing something that won’t really achieve their political goals. Instead, what they invariably do is to galvanize their political opponents and fracturing people who agree with them on anything.
But that doesn’t mean they’re stupid or unprepared. The Buffalo shooter’s manifesto is full of information on how to conduct these attacks successfully. Everything from tactics to gear to target selection was extensively researched and thought out. The guy even wrote about what underwear would work best, hoping other shooters would follow.
The guy’s training may have been lacking (experienced shooters will see issues if they watch the video), but possible future shooters are reading what he wrote and watching the video. Some of them will take up the slack and get better training. Don’t rely on them being incompetent.
If you find yourself up against such a threat, don’t assume that you can just spray a few .380 ACP rounds in their general direction and they’ll go away like many past shooters. You’d better be as proficient as you can be, and be prepared for a real fight for your life.
While these sorts of mass shootings are statistically far less likely than a minor-league criminal trying to snatch your wallet, preparing for more than the “three rounds, three seconds, three feet” kind of fight won’t stop you from being able to deal with more common threats. And it just might save your life.
Sensible advice!
Photorealistic targets provide a more realistic training environment than bullseye or paper plate targets. There are a multitude of different targets to allow you to tailor your training to various scenarios. While more expensive (and more painful) Simunition training is excellent for learning what works as a defender and what actions are pure LARPing cosplay B.S.
The author makes an understandable mention of concern if you’re part of a “controversial” group, and then names off the classic intersectionals such as LGBT, Jewish, Islamic, Hispanic, black, etc. I’ll add a very important group that’s being aggressively and publicly pursued as well…Caucasion, heterosexual, conservative, faith/God-following, America-supporting, pro-life Christians, with males being the center of the bullseye. We are being excoriated as the reason why many people who want to push their (skewed, perverted, and in some cases downright evil) agendas cannot have their unfettered way.
The day after this mass shooting in Buffalo, another event happened here in Orange County, CA at a church against worshipers. And it, too, will soon become lost in the noise as the next event, and the next, claim their 15 minutes in the news cycle.
The Marxists started pulling on the thread of our society three generations ago, and the tapestry is beginning to quickly unravel around us. We will have a major event which the Left will use to trigger either an outright Civil War or martial law, and even if contained to certain major metro areas, the consequences will be devastating. Remember when we knew the “good old days” before the Internet? Before 9/11, TSA, and DHS? Before Barry Sotero and the huge national lurch to the Left? Before COVID and election stealing? It’s no longer a leap to consider a showstopping event that will leave scars all the way to our grandchildren.
You wouldn’t be so obviously ignorant if you weren’t too stupid to spell “Caucasian”.
And you only wrote all-over-the-map babble, Fake-Name. You might as well have said that this human filth’s evil proves that The Denver Broncos have been cursed in The Super Bowl because KFC doesn’t use The Colonel’s real recipe anymore.
Hey Big-Mouth: Did an evil knownothing go to Buffalo and run around murdering your “Caucasion, heterosexual, conservative, faith/God-following, America-supporting, pro-life Christians”?
Hmm. I guess I did type a bit too quickly, and I inadvertently misspelled a single word out of well over 200. Thanks for reading the entire thing and providing input. You seem like a really swell person who’s fun at parties.
No, but an evil know nothing racially motivated criminal WAS in Waukesha where he used an SUV of peace to murder little kids and grannies. Or the BLM activist who shot up the subway in NYC recently, though he was incompetent and wasn’t terribly successful. Of course who can forget Bernie-Bro who used an SKS to shoot up a group of Republican Congressman playing baseball. The left has been pushing the use of violence for political purposes for some time, and then acts shocked and appalled that violence is being used.
De Facto, we shouldn’t forget the Las Vegas shooting as well. The motivation isn’t clear, but the target population was — and it certainly wasn’t the typical LGBT, minority, or other group.
If you give the fox a chicken and it leaves the rest alone you might not have to burn down the chicken house.
Oh that was about a fish eating bird called a Crain , like ” hey you crain, get outa my pond”.
Wrong thread:
“the Left will use to trigger either an outright Civil War or martial law“
It’s not the left discussing the implementation of martial law, it’s right wing extremist members of the United States Congress who are discussing an unconstitutional military takeover of America’s government.
“In our private chat with only Members, several are saying the only way to save our Republic is for Trump to call for Marshall law. I don’t know on those things. I just wanted you to tell him. They stole this election. We all know. They will destroy our country next. Please tell him to declassify as much as possible so we can go after Biden and anyone else!”
And make no mistake, the right wing nut jobs are very clear on who their targets for unlawful military Justice are:
“ …we can go after Biden and anyone else!”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna25973
You see, here we have one of the lowest members of the animal kingdom – a shill. While this individual was capable of being a free-thinking individual, a memetic mind virus has hijacked the brain of this once proud homo-sapiens. While higher intelligence is no longer possible, the shill still possess a kind of low, animal cunning and is NOT to be underestimated. Here in the shill’s natural habitat, we see him employing one of Saul Alinksy’s foundational principles from “rules for radicals”. “Accuse your enemy of whatever you’re doing.” This approach is also typically utilized in combination with “hold them to their own standards”. Sadly, the strange mind-virus of Marxism that holds sway in the mind of this individual is nearly impossible to treat, and will likely be terminal.
“Before 9/11, TSA, and DHS?“
Oh yes, we remember before the Republican President Dick Cheney created both the TSA and the DHS.
We remember when Donald Trump’s Saudi Arabian buddies engineered and financed the greatest terrorist attack on America on 9/11, on the Republican George Bush’s watch.
I realize you’ll find this difficult to believe, but some people are capable of calling out bad policy from any political party.
“And it, too, will soon become lost in the noise as the next event…”
No, it will quickly be forgotten because it was a racist act committed by a non-white person. The super-duper right wing ultra maga conservative Fox News mentioned this shooting on the radio yesterday. They made a point to say the victims were Asian, yet they didn’t mention the race of the assailant. Now what would be the point of mentioning one without the other? Things that make you go hmm…
I will add that every time they mentioned news about the Floyd case, they said Floyd was black and the cop was white.
This sounds exactly like what is probably in Payton Gendron’s manifesto.
Good points. The days of 3 feet, 3 shots, 3 seconds is relegated to the thief. Mass killers demand a higher level of training and prep. Since carrying a rifle is not too practical, at least be damn good with your pistol and carry at least ine extra mag. Rigs like Tier One are perfect for appendix carry with an onboard additional mag. A Glock 43X or 48 can carry 15+1, so with an extra mag, you have 31 doses of extreme fast violence to deliver to put down the murderer. Train, practice, train, practice. If your range doesn’t allow such work, find another range.
I recently saw an admittedly old video from Demolition Ranch where Mike had concealed over thirty guns, at least 3 of which were long guns. After watching the video, though, I couldn’t help but wonder: how do you comfortably sit at a desk, or drive a vehicle, while conceal-carrying an AR15?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Try a folding stock long gun. For example the SU-16c, Mini 14 folding stock, a break action shotgun. Or Any long gun equipped with a pistol brace. Or a pistol equipped with a pistol brace. Or a hand gun equipped with a USA 1Shot brace.
I have experimented with carrying some of these. Or having them in my car.
There are more Carry options than most people think. Because they’re thinking conventionally. People need to learn to think outside the box.
I use to backpack carry a folding/ take down rifle during my college days.
quote——————First, if you’re going to carry a weapon for self defense, be prepared to face the threat of a person wearing body armor. If you’re a security guard (or the owner of the establishment hiring security), you should consider having a rifle readily available instead of relying strictly on a pistol. That would both improve power against armor and improve shot placement.———-quote
This whole diatribe is total nonsense. In the first place many stores that hire security guards probably would not even let them carry assault rifles because of the over penetration factor that would kill innocent by standers as happened earlier this year when a cop with an AR 15 killed a girl taking cover in a changing room when he fired on the UNARMED mentally deranged man. Another case of a moron cop with little to no training.
And due to the fact that the nut case has body armor on tells everyone both security guards and civilians with a CCW that the pop gun pistol is useless against body armor and a nut case with a weapon of war i.e. the high powered assault rifle.
Yes the assault rifle is a danger to everyone when shopping these days or places with large groups of people like concerts as it is the weapon of choice for mass murder. It should be heavily regulated just like machine guns and silencers are.
Nonsense dacian wouldn’t know nonsense if it ate his nonsensical head off.
He was accidentally correct about some of the advice in the article being nonsense — but the biggest nonsense was not about the article suggesting that a rifle is better than a pistol against a shooter wearing body armor. That much of the article is 100% correct. The article is also correct in pointing out that there is nearly zero chance of security having access to a rifle in any non-government building in the USA (and not much better chance even in government buildings).
The article’s biggest mistake is in preaching head shots as the answer to body armor. Sorry, Jennifer but head shots are not a practical answer for a defender armed with a pistol, especially not any reasonable CCW pistol. A CNS hit is certainly the most effective answer, if you can get the hit, but the CNS shot has too small a target area and that target is almost always moving. A far more practical response to body armor is to shoot for the pelvic girdle — a larger target that is always moving less than the head (yes, even if you were shooting at Elvis Presley, the pelvis still moves less than the head!). Admittedly a hit to the pelvic girdle is not an “instant” stop — but a pelvic hit is a lot faster stop than a CNS miss.
Anyone who has any business carrying, ought to be able to get that CNS shot when practicing the Mozambique Drill against a stationary paper target — but that does not translate into making a successful CNS shot against a live moving target that is shooting at you.
Rather than the out-dated classic Mozambique Drill, let me suggest an Inverted Mozambique Drill: two quick shots center of mass, followed by two quick shots to the pelvic girdle.
Whichever drill you choose to practice, your practice should include quickly moving to cover or to a being a smaller target (kneeling or prone). Practicing the classic standing Mozambique Drill is nearly as foolish as practicing the El Presidente drill while thinking it is a tactical drill.
No better then I shoot aiming for the head would probably hit him square in the nutz.
Thank you, I came here for the same response.
Aiming for the groin area is a much more sure shot. You can hit hips, pelvis, femoral artery (if luck to save the taxpayers money), and so on much more reliably with that larger target area.
Thats nice now go finish college or actually purchase a firearm.
Have you read any of the comments illiterate dacian? Basically, they are telling you to shoot the bad guy in the gonads. Do you understand ‘lower center of mass’? Popgun pistol or 102 howitzer, if you get nailed in the nuts, you’re going down – but not on me!
“Have you read any of the comments illiterate dacian?”
Asked and answered, in the same sentence.
darcydodo…It’s pathetic incompetent morons like you who provided the soft targets for the shooter…Take a bow bozo.
Dacian you have stated several times you CCW. If you believe what you have posted that CCW is ineffective for all the reasons you state, what are you doing carrying a paperweight with you? Or do you have special skills that others don’t?
@ “dacian”
“The Dacians (/ˈdeɪʃənz/; Latin: Daci [ˈd̪aːkiː]; Greek: Δάκοι,[2] Δάοι,[2] Δάκαι[3]) were the ancient Indo-European inhabitants of the cultural region of Dacia, located in the area near the Carpathian Mountains and west of the Black Sea.”
They were in fact considered “white”. Oh the shame of it all!!!
Now then, where was I? Oh yes. It is apparent, by the way you articulate your “thoughts”, that you are not totally stupid. You are in fact insane. Are most Indo-Europeans like you?
He stated he likes to “toy with peoples minds.”
That’s a little weird to me, especially for someone 74 years old(?).
Just for fun, imagine dacian talking to a surving POW and ” toying with his mind.”
Anyway dacian’s fcked up and I feel sorry for him.
This person did NOT use an assault rifle.
You fool, that officer that shot the little girl through the wall was not over penetration, he literally missed his target and shot the wall. Also have you heard of an invention called hollow points? Yes they prevent over penetration and disintegrate when passed through a medium. “Pop gun”? I figured from speech used in 18th century England you would be educated enough to know training beats equipment. U.S. has a very strong infantry and they us shot out M4 rifles that shoot 4moa. It’s training that makes the difference.
Military style arms are necessary for civilians to own as part of checks and balances. They prevent government take over such as in Australia and Canada where they arrest citizens for sneaking out of their homes trying to go to work because their children are starving to death at home. They call it quarantine but the people die more from starvation than covid. The government needs to respect the people.
Why regulate “assault rifles?” Did you not know these “assault rifles” are used in less than 400 homcides per year? If we start banning “assault rifles” then we need to ban cars, they kill 30,000 people a year! A government taxi will pick you up and take you everywhere. Hopefully they have a handicap sticker to assist you with your lack of mental capacities. You play this game of “One life is worth it!” we all end up in padded rooms being told when we can and cannot see the light of day. All for our own “safety.”
I’m not entirely sure if we should bother regulating rifles: even the worst of them only begin to approach the death toll of mass murder by other means.
Having said that, we should adopt the same regulations for silencers that Europe has.
I watched the Christchurch video before it was cleansed from the internet. This video has a lot of similarities.
The big difference between this and Christchurch, is that cops responded quickly. I’ve read the claim that cops were on scene in two minutes – whether that be accurate or not, they did respond quickly.
But, yes, expect more copycats. The media will go over and over every detail, it will be preserved on 4chan and other places, where the next nutjob can study it. Just like this fool studied Christchurch and others.
Good article, all of it! One question, would a 10mm or another larger caliber handgun be effective against body armor?
No. generally speak, pistol calibers are useless against lvls. 3, 3a and 4 armor. I’m sure 10mm would sting against soft armor, the likelihood of penetration is almost nil.
Look it up. Many soft plates state 44mag stopping ability and rigid plates of all variety exist and go up in rounds they can stop from there. The answer isn’t likely carrying a handgun to shoot through armor but knowing that a failure drill or similar might prepare you defeat armor with any caliber. You would need a rifle to go through even cheaper plates and that might even mean AP. Good luck carrying that everywhere.
Kill the terrorists,
The only handgun round which has a very good chance of penetrating typical soft ballistic vests is the FN Five-seveN round.
The other consideration is blunt-force trauma. While readily available soft ballistic vests will stop .44 Magnum, a .43 caliber 240 grain slug slamming into your torso at 1200 feet-per-second is going to hurt like a motherfvcker and will likely break one or more ribs in addition to causing massive bruising. It is probably equivalent to someone busting you HARD with an old-school wooden baseball bat. I would venture to guess that there is even a non-trivial possibility that it could cause cardiac arrest–the same way that a very hard punch to the chest can cause cardiac arrest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWlk1Y3bjZI
Forget the body armor. Your target should be Headshots. Practice your Marksmanship. It’s what military and police snipers do. Also it was a single headshot that stopped the church shooting in Texas a few years back.
No but having caught a 40 cal to a soft plate before it will definitely hurt. My hit cost me a broken rib. I feel if you did it enough times it’d definitely have effect. But then, you’re vouching the target isn’t high or isn’t very determined.
Body armor provides effective protection against all handgun calibers. The only vulnerable spots are those not covered by the armor. That means the head and the body below the belt including groin and legs.
Also their sides. If there are side plates, then armpit.
It was an aimed shot to the armpit that stopped the texas church shooting. Sunderland springs? I don’t remember the exact town name.
In light for caliber +p 10 (and 357 sig) like underwood there is some ability to get through some level 3a some of the time (good luck with the newer uhmwpe but that may be beyond asshole budget ). That’s about it for common caliber legal pistol cartridges. 5.7, 22tcm, 7.5fak, and other less common loading have some options but realistically head and hips if they are wearing armor or helmet.
Double Tap has some lightweight super fast 357 sig. I wonder if that would defeat 3a armor. I know the Lehigh bullets will even in 9mm. See the Buffman videos. The hollow points from Double Tap may be preferable if they work because they would probably do more damage in situations without defeating armor (which would be a more likely scenario).
Solid copper seems to work the best with ballistic fiberglass at 3a (ish) thickness and older kevlar test panels. Lehigh Xtreme defender over penetrator for 9mm/357sig so far. Would want to check 10mm and 9×25 as well as 460 Rowland but other bills first/or people with suitable pistols.
I’d love to know how these do against 3a.
https://doubletapammo.com/collections/357-sig/products/357-sig-77gr-dt-lead-free-a-sc-hp-20rds
Caliber : .357 Sig
Bullet : 80gr. Barnes TAC-XP Lead Free
Ballistics : 1725fps / 529 ft. lbs. 4.25″ S&W M&P
1825fps Glock 35 5.25″
I have a 4.25″ M&P .40 S&W. I want to get a 5″ .357 barrel for it. I’ve been on the fence because of the price and availability of .357 Sig ammo.
While I would generally not go for hollow points for this purpose (tends to fragment and not penetrate as deeply after armor due to less mass and excessive speed) this does have potential in it’s design for being barrier blind(ish) with auto glass. Let you know if I get to run some redneck research/locate a box.
One to also check out if it restocks and thus far seems to be a frontrunner. https://www.underwoodammo.com/357-sig-65-grain-xtreme-defender.html
Of the possible pistol rounds for “security” personnel carrying openly, a fairly hot 10mm load is probably the closest they are going to get to an effective load against body armor.
It still won’t penetrate, but two or three quick rounds center chest stand a reasonable chance of temporarily stopping a shooter wearing no more than Level IIIA soft body armor. Almost no chance of any useful effect against Level III or IV hard body armor that is readily available.
Unfortunately even against soft body armor that stop will be only a very short time and we live in a society where the security guard would probably be prosecuted if he takes advantage of that brief pause to deliver the shot needed to make the stop permanent.
Hot loaded .45LC or .44mag too I rekon.
It’s hard to believe that someone shooting a person wearing body armor in the head or hip is going to be prosecuted for doing so — having said that, we do live in such a society where it’s at least possible, and we should be ready to rally behind anyone who is being prosecuted by a rogue prosecutor.
We need to remember: sometimes prosecutors cave to pressure.
We shouldn’t cede sound and perfectly just tactics just because they might be used against us legally. When we are attacked, our first goal should be to win the physical fight. We can worry about the legal fight afterward — and so long as we act with sound legal knowledge, we can make that legal fight harder for the prosecutor — and that legal fight can include public relations nightmares!
His body armor did NOT cover every inch of his body.
Unfortunately it covers the areas most people reflexively shoot at.
That’s my point. That is why people need practice and why people need more than ten rounds.
Preaching to the choir here but Gamer747 did mention some hip/groin to head targets that I need to look into as I have mostly been using the multiple small bullseyes at the high and low heights at various lower widths.
It was a single headshot that stopped the church shooting in Texas a few years back. We discuss this on TTAG when it happened. If folks haven’t been practicing for this they’re just wrong.
Generally Agree Chris, just gets a bit more complicated when the asshole gets a helmet and cuts the headshot effective target area in half and groin/hips becomes the larger incapacitation target. Sucks that some of the stuff I had to learn for military active shooter drills may be more relevant than I ever hoped to see.
The kinetic energy, that is the force of impact of a bullet, on a ballistic helmet will be plenty enough energy to disrupt the shooter. He will have quite a headache. You can then close on the shooter and shoot them, again and again, if necessary. To stop the threat.
You’re shooting gets a lot easier with practice. And that includes dry fire which costs nothing.
*may disrupt the shooter, one of my squad mates took a hit to the helmet on deployment and while jarring was not that disruptive (took cover called out direction without a delay) it turned out to be a 303 from around 350ish meters out. But lots of variables and we tended to start with hips if body armor was suspected.
Finally! This is the one situation a Desert Eagle with 50AE would have some import (impact?). Still, it’s not much of a concealed carry solution, but the MF’er’s eyes would light up when you hit him with a 50 cal bullet. Even if it doesn’t penetrate the body armor, it’s gonna make him stagger…
Unless he was using rifle plates but ae and 429de would be interesting to see on 3a, possibly a similar effect as a 12 ga slug re blackface deformation and possibly disrupting his actions.
Our local ranges in the Seattle area do not allow human shaped targets. Otherwise, I am always amazed at scenarios where defensive shooters keep going for body center especially on someone wearing a vest. I am more inclined to shoot lower than the vest or even the ground in front of them. Schrapnel is very effective against feet and ankles.
If need be an 14-16 inch circle about 2-3 feet below a 6 inch circle would get a field expedient option for a blank target fill in.
Too bad someone hadn’t pulled up right behind him and put one in his miserable dome…
The video should never be taken down. It is our First Amendment right to see the truth unedited. If H.S. children must watch video of Holocaust victims. Or pictures of the Cambodian genocide. Or video of the Japanese soldiers committing the Nanjing Massacre.
Then I see no reason why they cannot watch this video.
Morality used to be emphasized in our schools. Just as rifle teams and second amendment education and their responsibilities, were also taught in our schools. But emphasizing morality and character were removed. Because the atheists said morality had Religious connections and is really just a point of view.
And the Socialists progressives who have no children, didn’t want other people’s children learning about their civil rights. And the responsibilities that go with them. So they destroyed the rifle teams.
The video should never be taken down. It is our First Amendment right to see the truth unedited. If H.S. children must watch video of Holocaust victims. Or pictures of the Cambodian genocide. Or video of the Japanese soldiers committing the Nanjing Massacre.
Then I see no reason why they cannot watch this video.
Morality used to be emphasized in our schools. Just as rifle teams and second amendment education and their responsibilities, were also taught in our schools. But emphasizing morality and character were removed. Because the atheists said morality had Religious connections and is really just a point of view.
And the S0ci@lists progressives who have no children, didn’t want other people’s children learning about their civil rights. And the responsibilities that go with them. So they destroyed the rifle teams.
btw
What about the security camera footage of the shooter in Boulder Colorado??? If it has been released I am not seen it. Perhaps it’s because the shooter was a white man. A Muslim white man. And his victims did not have dark skin.
“It is our First Amendment right to see the truth unedited.”
That isn’t how it works. You can’t form your own opinions. They must be given to you.
“Morality used to be emphasized in our schools.”
Don’t look now, but morality is once again being emphasized in schools. The only difference is, it isn’t the traditional morality that has worked since the beginning of time. It’s the morality of the new progressive religion. What could go wrong?
Yes indeed that old time morality really did work for thousands of years.
For a person who says he is killing people of color because he feels that European decent people are being overrun by them, he starts off by killing a white woman. DUH!
It makes me wonder, is his “manifesto” really legit, or is someone in the press making it up?
One of the unfortunate victims was an old black lady who crusaded against ” gun violence”. Gunz ain’t violent. People are. If this vicious boy had been 17 a federal “hate crime©” rap would be off the table. He could be executed at 18. Look for a huge crackdown on body armor…mom n dad were blissfully unaware of their errant spawn’s murderous intent. Boy still had braces😦
He bought into the racism because he doesn’t understand the difference between right and wrong. In reality, I think he just wanted to kill and be an “important” person. He was trying to give his life meaning while taking out his frustrations on life.
It reminds me of a couple of white supremacists who murdered a black person for being black. They then murdered a white person for having a car they wanted to joy-ride.
People who don’t value the lives of minorities (whoever they may consider to be a “minority”) don’t really value the lives of anyone else, either. It’s a major reason why I don’t particularly like the notion of “hate crime”. When someone kills, maims, robs, assaults, or merely makes fun of someone else, is it ever done out of love? Why should it suddenly be worse because some sort of “protected status” was involved?
No, crimes are crimes, and should be punished as such, regardless of motivation.
You lost me when you pandered the false narrative that white people are not the target. You mean white people aren’t attacked and unlike other groups, openly slandered for even existing? One shooting and the world forgets that a black racist group burned down whole neighborhoods. If your attention span is any indication of the norm… We truly are in a failing society with no hope of turning around. How about you focus on the fact that anybody of any color should be ready to do battle against evil to protect their brothers and sisters of any color or made up sexual ideology?
Version of the Mozambique I run is two shots to the pelvic girdle and one to the head.
If you can’t walk or I’ve clipped your femoral you only have three minutes left on this earth.
Viking makes an amazing target to practice this very drill.
Do you have a link to this target?
The “situational awareness” section is silly victim blaming. He parked the car, got out and started shooting in a matter of seconds. I don’t think anyone could have done much in that time.
There was little to no chance of saving every life but there WAS time to shoot back.
Not when he first got out of the car.
Ok…but I did not say anything specifically about that. What I did say (again) is:
“There was little to no chance of saving every life but there WAS time to shoot back.”
I thought that INCLUDED when he got out of his vehicle.
I don’t consider this to be victim blaming. Situational awareness is an ideal — yet, in some cases, it’s impossible, and in other cases, we’re human, and it’s not really possible to be fully situationally aware.
Nonetheless, we should always do our best to be aware of our surroundings, and it isn’t “victim shaming” to point that out whenever something like this happens, however difficult it might have been to be sufficiently aware.
If this were still a country worth a damn this cowardly freak would be hanging from a rope by the end of next week. But no, the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave is an idiocracy. And it is dying.
He refrained from shooting a white male employee who was cowering on the floor between checkout lanes, and actually appears to say “Sorry” to him as he turns away to continue shooting at other people.
Nauseating. Indefensible. Evil.
Would it have been less “Nauseating. Indefensible. Evil.” if he had killed the White male employee?
Murdering innocent people is heinous. Watching someone murdering specific people “for reasons” while sparing others and apologizing to them during the act is malevolent.
Reading the mental gymnastics people attempt in order to somehow justify any semblance of acceptable “logic” behind an act such as this is…
Nauseating. Indefensible. Evil.
Don’t worry. I’m pretty sure he killed a white person as well.
If you watch the video. You will see the first person that he shot was a white brunette woman.
Just a couple of thoughts. Learning to shoot head and groin shots is a good skill to master so you can defeat body armor. Most ballistic helmets in my opinion are useless because they either have an open front or a shield which is not bullet proof. Also, the ballistic energy from a handgun 9mm or higher should be enough to knock them out if you hit them in the helmet or face shield. Certainly it will disrupt them.
Having a rifle available in a store or church or whatever is not very practical unless you carry one on a rack in the cab of your pickup and are attacked or see an attack while you are in your vehicle. When you hear the first shot that is the time to react if you have not eyeballed the person first.
dprato says “When you hear the first shot that is the time to react”
My first reaction is to hit dirt and/or get behind something heavy.
Imagine being 104 feet off the ground, when you hear that first shot. I came really, really, really close to killing myself by taking that dive . . .
Helmets cut the useful hit zone of the head about in half. Still a bit to aim at but does make a small moving target smaller.
Video links are all dead. FYI.
Blame Biden and his disinformation gestapo. Or, blame Google. I saved it to hard drive, but I don’t have anyplace to upload it to.
The first one works fine. It just takes forever.
Give it a couple hours and I’ll throw up another copy on another drive if that one goes down.
Here is another of his mussings. Probably will get taken down soon so archive it if possible,
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiRs5fEqeX3AhXVTTABHZmVCrEQFnoECAgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fkiwifarms.net%2Fattachments%2Fpost-may-29th-discord-transcript-docx-pdf.3283621%2F&usg=AOvVaw1BteeTP5ar4ljqaR_Lfsqu
I archive most of this sorta stuff. Rarely repost it, but I keep copies for the same reason that I buy physical books.
Thanks for the link.
Thanks strych9 and KenW.
A recent course I attended had those 3d foamish targets up with t-shirts on them and depending on the drill/scenario one or more would be wearing a plate. The first few times you hear that ping after making hits without the ping was definitely a cadence stopper.
Per the clock seemed like the best way to go from the ping was down into the gut/hips/legs. Headshots cost time and accuracy for the class.
Makes sense. The head is a small target and stress doesn’t help. Lower trunk is a bigger target and full of important stuff. I’m changing up my starting point after a couple of these body armor cases.
Lower center mass for me.
Did they give that guy a ticket for not wearing a seat belt.
Seat belts save lives.
If the shooter was not able to acquire body armor easily, the armed guard would have had a chance to take him down. Trump banned bump stocks after the Vegas shooting. It’s time President Biden bans civilian ownership of body armor and makes it a felony to possess (unless you work for a legitimate security company). Why wouldn’t you gun guys be in support of criminals not being able to wear body armor when they commit mass murder? Don’t you want to be the hero and have a chance to stop the bad guy? Dreaming of the day you get to save everyone by whipping out your little “concealed carry”? Body armor needs to go now.
Perfect response Hogg boy! The answer to everything is PROHIBITION!! We need to create more Al Capones who get filthy rich by trafikking in the very things you have prohibited. Do you understand how the Mexican drug cartels work? We have a Hogg Winner here!
Because making something illegal isn’t the same as making something not exist? Body armor for military and LEO is never going away, so it’s always going to be available for a price.
Why not just outlaw shooting people. Oh wait…
“It’s time President Biden bans civilian ownership of body armor and makes it a felony to possess … ”
WHY SHOULD YOU CONSIDER BUYING A BACKPACK WITH ARMOR INSERT?
“The greatest benefit of purchasing a bulletproof backpack or bulletproof plates for an existing backpack is for “Peace of Mind.” Though no parent should ever wish that their child will ever need to use such a product, many customers emphasize it is always better to be safe than sorry.” — https://bulletproofzone.com/blogs/bullet-proof-blog/should-you-buy-a-bulletproof-backpack-or-bulletproof-backpack-armor
Why do you hate children, Hogg? Why would you prefer that they die defenselessly in a shooting situation?
What ever happened to “If it saves one life?”
It’s tempting to think that mass shooters are insane, which is true on a broad level.
Generally speaking, no, it’s not true on a broad level.
The fact that you can’t wrap your head around how someone else thinks doesn’t make them crazy and thinking that they are crazy is dangerous to you when the sort of person who did this is the topic. “They’re crazy” is an open invitation to say they cannot be understood which is a great way to be lazy and not think about how they operate. This will leave you with blind spots of your own creation.
If you can’t even start to think like these people they’ll surprise you every time. I said this about the Christchurch shooter. He wasn’t nuts. He followed a line of logic, and wrote it out, that is incorrect and corrosive but his thinking was ordered around that incorrect concept to the point that he saw his actions as a form of defense.
He therefore came to an erroneous conclusion and committed an atrocity that he could fully justify, and in fact, intended to do so publicly in court. This guy, so far, appears to be the same.
“his thinking was ordered around that incorrect concept to the point that he saw his actions as a form of defense”
Correct, a good example of this would be Vladimir Putin, who claims his overt invasion of Ukraine is a defensive move to save Russia.
The erroneous conclusion this guy came to was that he had to kill people. He just wanted to. The raciss aspect is a distraction. He wasn’t just picking off immigrants, was he? He wasn’t avoiding killing white people, was he? No, his goal was simply to up the body count. The entire raciss aspect was just a way for him to focus on something other than his own unhappiness with life. It was an excuse. He had already threatened to shoot up his school a year or more ago.
“He wasn’t avoiding killing white people, was he?“
Yes, he was. He lowered the weapon from the white staff member, and said “sorry” for muzzling him.
From his writings and his actions it’s clear his full intention was to murder only Black people.
Of course, anyone who tried to stop him was going to get shot, no matter what their color was, he had a mission to perform.
Imagine at a certain point the hate and bloodlust became just too much, and he just started shooting anyone he could because it was getting good to him.
“he just started shooting anyone he could”
In other words, you agree that it wasn’t just about race. That was just something for him to focus his personal emptiness on.
“In other words, you agree that it wasn’t just about race“
I understand you would like to somehow re-classify this as anything other than White supremacist racism.
But the fact is from the moment he began his planning to the moment he was apprehended by the police, his stated focus was to kill Black people.
Just because he ended up killing one white person during his spree does not somehow indicate his focus was not to kill Black people.
You claim “the erroneous conclusion this guy came to was that he had to kill people. The racist aspect was just a distraction”.
That is an intentional mischaracterization that aims to somehow downplay the fact that white supremacy and the murder of Black people (and other minorities) was his prime motivating goal.
And more importantly, this goal was part of the radical right wing anti-immigrant indoctrination spewed nightly by Tucker Carlson and other Fox ‘News’ entertainers for fun and profit.
That’s not patriotism, that’s fascism.
“That is an intentional mischaracterization that aims to somehow downplay the fact that white supremacy and the murder of Black people (and other minorities) was his prime motivating goal.”
I’m not trying to downplay the racism aspect. I’m also not trying to emphasize it as the MSM is. I’m calling it as I see it. There’s much more to this story than just racism. Didn’t he kill a non-threatening white person? This guy also threatened to shoot up his high school around the time of graduation. The Buffalo Police Commissioner said that threat was general in nature and NOT RELATED TO RACE. Am I supposed to just ignore that?
I think it’s best to look at all available information before forming an opinion. The MSM presents the “news” in a way to push a narrative. I’ve noticed that your opinions always align with the MSM narratives. In other news, propaganda still works.
“…this goal was part of the radical right wing anti-immigrant indoctrination spewed nightly by Tucker Carlson and other Fox ‘News’ entertainers…”
Big surprise, you just regurgitate the MSM narratives. The shooter literally made fun of Fox News. He also admitted to learning about race replacement theories on very specific websites that didn’t include Fox News. Do you ever get tired of being wrong about everything?
“He wasn’t avoiding killing white people, was he?”
He avoided shooting the white guy in the checkout area and even apologized to him for having pointed a rifle in his direction. So, yeah, it does seem that his shooting was racially targeted, though his marksmanship may have not been perfect in that regard.
But even if he misses a few of the finer points the overarching point of what he’s doing is getting attention for a cause. His killing, regardless of whom he actually shoots in the end, is politically motivated just as the Christchurch killer was.
I’m not going to rehash the entirety of what I pointed out back in 2019, I’ll just say that this behavior is not crazy. It’s pure, brutal utilitarianism based on cold logic. No different than targeting the family of a political figure for kidnapping and then sending them piece by piece to the targeted person along with snuff flicks.
Yes, it’s fucked up but it’s going to get their attention and provides proof-of-life at the same time it demonstrates your will. It’s a medieval way of thinking but it is far from crazy. From a genetic to a societal level it makes sense and it’s the old way. No different than what the Romans did to Carthage.
Some actions are not nice. Some are damned mean, what some might call “evil” but that’s a value judgement IRL. Such behavior doesn’t make the actor crazy.
Skipping the logic and philosophy details: If you grant them the facts in totality and the first principles they’ve drawn from those facts you end up with an opinion-based argument on “how bad is the situation” and therefore arguing about what level of response is justified. This guy’s response is pretty extreme because he believes the situation is extreme and justifies it. He chooses a purely utilitarian solution.
No one would fault the Jews in Europe during the Holocaust for using some pretty brutal tactics against the Germans. This guy sees himself, erroneously, in a similar situation to that of the Jews. He can justify a Hell of a lot if he’s correct. He’s not correct.
===
But all of this is sort of an academic aside after-the-fact. It matters in trying to prevent such actions from taking place, which .gov is barking up the wrong tree on and has been for a long time. Gun control and speech control won’t help, they’ll make it worse.
Regardless of the philosophical argument, my overarching point here is that you’re unlikely to win a confrontation against such a person unless you understand that many of them are coldly rational and calculating, which means that they may, in fact, be quite competent at what they are doing. Failure to accept, recognize and respect this will almost certainly lead to a lack of planning on your part and that could easily get you killed. It may not always be the case, such as with the Gabby Giffords shooter but you shouldn’t assume these people are stupid or crazy.
“His killing, regardless of whom he actually shoots in the end, is politically motivated just as the Christchurch killer was.”
I’d say it is and it isn’t. He found some cause to focus on, but he apparently just wanted to kill. He had previously said he was going to shoot up his school and kill himself. The local police said that threat wasn’t related to race. He found something in his sick mind that had more meaning, would get more attention, and still allow him to kill people. He decided not to kill himself so he could relish being the center of attention.
You have to label this incident as racist terrorism because that’s what it was. What I’m saying is that there’s more to this story. This guy was going to be a mass killer even if he never read about replacement theories. He just found something to focus his sick mind on. If we want to understand this guy, we shouldn’t only focus on the race or political aspect.
From the Post:
“When I came home at ~10:30 I was eating pizza bites when I hard my cat Paige scream from the garage,” Gendron wrote.
“I quickly enter and the gray cat was attacking her. I then spent the next hour and a half chasing the cat around the garage and stabbing it with my knife (the camo one).”
The radicalized teen took meticulous notes of the killing, recording the time at which blood spilled from the feline’s mouth, what knife he used to stab it and how many times he slashed its neck until its head was detached.
He also posted disturbing photos of the cat’s decapitated body and his own face sprayed with splatters of blood.
“It bled from the mouth at about 11:00 and at about 11:45 I was able to grab the cats tail and wind up and smack the cats head on the concrete ground,” he wrote. “I did that a few times and when it went limp I grabber [sic] a hatchet and swung at its neck ~20 times until it came off.”
https://nypost.com/2022/05/17/alleged-buffalo-shooter-payton-gendron-once-beheaded-cat-journal-entry-shows/
Tell me those aren’t the actions of a future mass murderer or serial killer.
If you want to call this a form of OCD, go ahead.
Either way, the point is that these people are capable of meticulous planning and sometimes execution. Yes, they’re essentially terrorists. His cause in this case, as in Christchurch, was overtly political.
They wanted to stop the currently level of immigration through a two pronged assault. Scare the immigrants so they’ll leave or won’t come and arouse public awareness for the cause in a manner that they hope will create political pressure on the government to limit all forms of immigration when it comes to the “wrong” type of people.
Some of these people are genuinely crazy. Some of them have even been taking medication for their craziness. So it’s not wrong to acknowledge that they are generally crazy.
Whether or not this particular mass murderer was crazy, however, doesn’t matter too much:
we have seen, time and time again, that even crazy people have the capability to create and carry out detailed plans. It’s the pair of assumptions that (1) the attacker must be crazy, and (2) the attacker will necessarily be sloppy that’s necessarily dangerous.
Whenever there’s a situation like this, the default should be “we need to stop this”, and then figure out afterward, when the dust has settled, whether the attacker was crazy.
The problem is that most people don’t separate 2 from 1 and then pack them together as a nested set of assumptions thinking they’re only making one assumption.
You shouldn’t give a shit. You should assume that they’re coldly calculating and fully competent at what they’re doing and respond to that. If they’re really crazy they’ll probably be significantly less competent than you expect, so much the better. You should plan for the worst and hope for the best not the reverse.
Even in the aftermath I wouldn’t simply grant the assumption that taking psyche meds = crazy. Someone can be angry and down the wrong path, misdiagnosed and on pills. That may make them worse in some cases.
What matters in the immediate, as you correctly point out, is dealing with the problem. That requires some planning and thinking on your part. In doing that, I’d recommend completely jettisoning the idea that they’re crazy and defaulting to the assumption that they are not crazy and have a plan that they’ve actually thought out in a manner that makes them competent to accomplish their goals.
At absolute best, them being crazy is so immaterial that mentioning it is a waste of time. But no matter how insignificant it may seem it will creep into the mindset of many people who may actually end up dead because they incorporated that assumption into their thinking.
The concept is clear. BE Nosy! Everyone gets looked at and possible threat or no threat assigned. It becomes second nature over time. Too many think “oh that won’t happen here.” but it does.
Helps to have a people watching personality with some paranoia thrown in I think. This can be learned though if practiced.
so…Be NOSY! Watch what people do and how they act….and put the training time in on the range.
When I make eye contact with people, I smile or nod. I’ve noticed that most people won’t even make eye contact.
That got significantly worse with masks, at least around here.
With a person as prepared and driven to kill as this douche bag was no amount of gun control would’ve changed anything. No gun, no problem. What about pipe bombs or Molotov Cocktails? Evil will find a way.
If the shooter wasn’t able to obtain a car easily he couldn’t have driven to Buffalo. Now go stfu and gtfo.
Eggsactly, in almost ever crime a vehicle is used in the commission .
I find it strange on what forms of death humans accept and what forms they dont.
They’re playing the long game on taking our cars away as well. For now, they’re content to make them expensive to use. Sound familiar?
Great job on this story. Always carry EVEN WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO.
Sorry 2A haters that’s My law
“. . . be prepared to face the threat of a person wearing body armor. If you’re a security guard (or the owner of the establishment hiring security), you should consider having a rifle readily available instead of relying strictly on a pistol.”
Good point. I hadn’t thought of this before; most of us probably haven’t thought of it.
And yet, some folks have; those where such threats are vastly more probable than in the US. I live part time in Mexico. In the last couple of years I’ve noticed security guards carrying machineguns.
No, I don’t mean scary looking black-colored rifles. I mean full-auto machineguns. When I saw them I was guessing; but, being the inquisitive type, I asked to be sure. In each case the guard confirmed that it was an “ametralladora”. The practice isn’t universal; I’ve observed this only 3 times: once at a department store; another at an electrical equipment supply store; and, once at a supermarket.
What’s the take-away for an assailant willing to do a lot of harm and kitted-out with a bullet-proof vest? There COULD be a non-zero possibility that the security guard he will face is better-armed than he is. Or, well enough armed to make his bullet-proof vest unreliable.
We probably won’t have machinegun equipped guards in America. We could, however, have rifle-equipped guards. Assailants will have a tougher time kitting up with vests carrying plates capable of withstanding rifle bullets.
Livr “part time in Mexico”- you get a ZERO for situational awareness (and brains). A “security guard” (mall cop” makes with a “machinegun” makes you feel good – are you stupid or just playing at it?
Whenever out and about watch your surroundings. Don’t put your nose in your phone, or look at the ground. Be aware of what is happening around you.
The majority here does observe, it is our nature. But I have seen many people get too relaxed when they don’t think they are in a place where they need to be vigilant. You need to be observing and accessing all the time.
I’ve open carried many times just to see who might be paying attention. It’s amazing how many people are so engrossed in their own little world that they don’t see anything. Nose in the phone being the biggest culprit. People need to practice situational awareness just as they practice with their firearms.
Most excellent article indeed. Nailed it totally. Outstanding advice and suggestions. My compliments to the author.
This was horrific especially at close range. It’s a miracle worst carnage wasn’t suffered. My prayers and sympathies for all victims and their families and friends.
Very disturbing because there will be copycats. If I managed a high end grocery store in a “good” area, like a Whole Foods, for example, I’d be very concerned, especially with the condition white (both meanings) customer base. Same if I went to a conservative or fundamentalist church in a “white” area. Or a synagogue or mosque just because they are always obvious targets. I normally carry a Sig 238 because of the small size, but every time I see a situation like this one, I keep thinking I should carry the SR9C with 17 rounds. Interesting point about aiming below the armor – a bit of a flinch should assure that outcome.
Whole Foods near me has “gun busters” posted along with NO WEAPONS ALLOWED signs so I shop there with total piece of mind…NOT. I try not to go there at all but when I can’t help myself, I CC.
This guy’s reason for living is the attention he’s getting and the hope that he will be an inspiration to someone else. The hope for the inspiration isn’t about some racist cause. It’s about him feeling important. He did this because there was no point to his life. Like Hannibal said below, these people used to just end themselves.
The SR9C is hard to conceal with the 17 round magazine in warm weather. I’d say you’re good carrying the 10 rounder on your hip and the 17 round spare mag in your pocket. I have one as well. I also have a pocket .380 for easy carry. I got the 911 .380 when they came out because the one with night sights was cheaper than the 238 without them.
comment is awaiting moderation
What a fucking scumbag.
“The kind of person who would conduct a mass shooting of unarmed people in a grocery store won’t be stopped by hiding information…”
“Hiding” information is not the point, it is a strawman argument you are using against people who have realized the reality: that this kind of maniac used to blow their brains out by themselves. Thanks to the fact that disingenuous authors like you will happily publish the thesis of their screeds and publicize them if they get a high enough body count. It has zero tactical relevance if one finds one’s self in that situation.
Again , you can get carry permits in Buffalo or more specifically Erie county, since it’s the county that issues them . Yes it’s a pain, costs a few bucks, takes way to long , but a person can get one . Sure we’re “ shall issue “ yet I don’t know anyone who’s been turned down .
Oh and Sheriffs don’t issue them here, judges do . If you live in a city the city PD does the background , live in a county then the Sheriffs office does, but the packet gets sent to and approved by a judge .
Once just once I’d like to read an article where the author actually knows NYS laws and procedures , and doesn’t simply replete what they’ve read in others error filled articles.
Yes it would appear (contrary to common belief) that New York State, California and other NE States although considered “May Issue” ,are in fact (according to the County) “Shall Issue”. Albeit with additional hoops to jump through. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Concealed_carry_across_USA_by_county.svg
“Sure we’re “ shall issue “ yet I don’t know anyone who’s been turned down“
By posting the truth you are thwarting the scheduled ‘Two Minutes Hate’ against New York’s ‘socialists and Marxists’.
Citizen, perhaps it is time you are re-educated on the essential right wing conservative doctrines, you must be carefully taught who to hate.
Now repeat after me:
“You’ve got to be taught to
hate and fear
You’ve got to be taught
from year to year
It’s got to be drummed
into your dear little ear.
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught to be afraid
Of those people whose eyes are
oddly made
and people whose skin is
a different shade
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught
before it’s too late
before you are six or
seven or eight
To hate all the people
your relatives hate
You’ve got to be carefully taught.“
Over the years, I have seen far more hate coming from the Leftists than I have from so-called “right-wingers”.
Whenever that hate translates into mass murder, though, regardless the method, it’s very seldom committed by people solidly on one side or the other — the person is usually so crazy, they are all over the map politically — but when it is a Leftist, the story doesn’t last long in the media.
The author says: “It’s worth noting that the Buffalo shooter (like some of the others) places the Great Replacement conspiracy theory…”
Please explain how it’s a conspiracy theory when our dear leaders like Jerry Nadler, among others, literally say that’s what they’re doing? Why do we have open borders under the Puppet Administration? Do you seriously not understand the goal of that mess?
“…any “controversial” group (LGBT, Jewish, Islamic, Hispanic, black, etc.), you should realize that there are people out there — though very small in number — who want to hurt you and your friends.”
Most racial groups are killed by their own racial groups. Jews may be an exception. Most LGBT aren’t being killed because they’re LGBT unless it’s by an Islamic terrorist. The fake news about trans people being killed because they’re trans is just that, fake. They’re being killed because of their lifestyle. Those that have been killed are usually hookers or druggies.
How about this? Murder is wrong. Racism is wrong. All life has inherit value. Getting caught up in the left wing narratives doesn’t help anyone.
i live in a shall issue concealed carry state
part of the law states that property owners can put up a sign saying no weapons allowed
i simply dont go to those places
and if for some reason i have to
i just carry anyway
Ya know…
His body armor wouldn’t have meant anything if he had been shot by a 5.7×28 cop killer armor piercing round (as the left claimed it was anyway).
Constituitional Carry…no permits…all states and this won’t happen so often…perps will have too many people shooting back…just one to flank idiot and put him down while he’s busy trying to shoot someone else…just like the citizenry put the James gang out of business…
Situational Awareness
Readiness to Act
Prepared For Violence
These three things have to be part of your everyday mindset if you want to protect yourself and others – regardless of whether you carry a firearm. (Though carrying a firearm makes the 3rd point easier.)
One point on shooting someone in armor: you might need/want to advance on them – while shooting. Moving toward an assailant is not *usually* expected behavior, and combined with punching some kinetic energy into the armor might give you an opportunity you might otherwise not have.
Also, shot placement is again key. Aside from head or groin shots, if you hit the same spot in the armor with round after round, you will penetrate. Armor loses its coherence after absorbing a round – but only in that spot. (And, obviously, it depends on what you’re hitting it with.) I wouldn’t count on it as a tactic, but it’s something to keep in mind.
Constituitional Carry in all states and this crap will stop with less deaths per incident…and armor won’t be as “invincible” when you have 3 or 4 citizens shooting at perp…
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