I’ll tell you what could go wrong with a PIN-number-locked handgun: you wouldn’t be able to unlock it. What’s that you say? How could you fail to punch in a simple, say three-digit code when push came to ballistic shove? The same way I sometimes have to enter my four digit code four times to unlock my iPhone. (See: Ham in Toy Story) I imagine it would be even more difficult to punch in the appropriate numbers if someone was trying to kill me. So, breakingnews.ie reports . . .
San Diego-based Safety First Arms has created the Smart 2, a gun that is locked and unlocked using a PIN number, which can unlock the weapon in less than a second. In safety terms, it can also help prevent unauthorised use by sounding an alarm if picked up and not unlocked within 10 seconds.
The alarm has also been designed to sound if it is picked up while the Theft Guard feature is activated, thanks to motion detection, and it also knows when someone attempts to tamper with it.
For now the gun is only in the prototype phase, still around two years away from becoming available. However, it has already secured more than a million dollars in orders from gun stores.
Only one 3D-printed prototype has been made so far, and the weapon’s price tag is set to be over a thousand dollars.
Yeah, I know: that last one is shocker. A grand for a 9mm gun that’s less useful than a GLOCK 19 or similar? No wonder the former Navy SEAL running Safety First moved from Mission Texas to the Land of Fruits and Nuts (sorry JWM).
Still, as always, I’m all about the free market. If that’s what people want, let ’em have it! So to speak. Oh wait. New Jersey’s “smart gun law” mandating the extinction of “dumb guns” after a “smart gun” is on sale anywhere in the continental U.S. The repeal of which was vetoed by . . . wait for it . . . Republican Governor Chris Christie.
Leaving it where a kid can find and play with it is inexcusable.
You must not have kids. Left to their own devices, kids can find anything, yes even if you put it on the top shelf in your closet. Believe me, it has happened. Kids used boxes to see where daddy put his (duty) weapon on the shelf in the master bedroom closet. One ended up dead.
Most people with kids figure out “put it up higher” is stupid pretty quick, yeah. That’s why you don’t leave your gun out.
There is no substitute for teaching kids about gun safety. Even little kids can learn the rules.
Kids are curious, and they play with the weapons out of curiosity. Take away the mystery, disassemble the weapon in front of them, show them how it all works and put it back together again. Get them a pellet gun. Tell them that they are free to do target practice, if they ask your permission first.
Heck, a little airsoft pistol in the basement (with some styrofoam as a backstop) would make a good practice tool.
I don’t get it… we already have safes and all other sorts of locking devices for guns that allow you to actually use the gun when you’re carrying it. If a “curious child” can defeat those measures, why not this one?
There is a long list of potential problems with this design.
– Grip is enlarged to hold the locking mechanism and grip safety, which will make it too large for some people’s hands.
– Spokeman says that it is designed “to prevent… theft” (0:50 in the vid). There is NOTHING in this pistol’s design which will prevent this pistol from being stolen. If they are referring to the noise, it is a possible deterrent in SOME situations, and of no use in others; but if you don’t KNOW it’s going to make noise if you mess with it, there is no deterrent effect at all. Car alarms make noise too, but we still have car theft. And as someone else has already said, instructions on how to disable the lock and alarm will be available online, before the end of the first month it’s on the market.
– Even if the threat is in the same room with you, you must take your eyes off the threat to enter the PIN and unlock your pistol. He even does it in the video, with no threat present (1:05 in the vid).
– Grip safety must be depressed to enter the PIN and unlock, but if you let off the grip safety, it re-locks. Shift your grip on the pistol due to a sweaty hand, move the pistol from your right to your left hand to open a door, and not only will the gun re-lock, 10 seconds later it will loudly announce the fact that you are momentarily defenseless by activating the alarm.
– Finally, all these fancy options are battery-operated, but to truly prevent unauthorized use, the unit MUST revert to a locked condition if the battery dies, otherwise folks would just steal it and mess with it until the battery died, then they could use it at will. If it reverts to a locked condition when the battery dies, and if you need it to defend your life but the battery is dead, then so are YOU.
Because this design may allow its creator to be eligible for fat NIJ or DIJ grants and subsidies. There is a large industry out there that works precisely like this.
Treason from a ” former” navy seal
he’s a Navy seal he knows more about guns and gun safety than we do .
Inventing a new gadget for sale on the free market is treason? What are you, a communist?
Guns are, or are about to be, illegal in NJ, so WGAS what their laws say?
not until they are being produced. this is still a prototype.
The biggest lie is that the gun wouldn’t be usable if stolen.
I guarantee that the means to destructively disable the locking mechanism will be on Youtube within 1 week of release.
They might be able to make it harder by molding the locking mechanism into the and making the gun un-serviceable but you’d still be able to strategically drill/dremel out the locking point.
But oh well, what ever makes you “feel” safe. Because today, feelings is what matter.
Very much a mistruth. I looked at the Armatix patents, I could get the gun dumbed down in a few minutes plus break down time. I wish someone would buy me one I’d put a how to up on Youtube.
My first handgun was a demilled MAS 50 my dad brought back from Viet Nam. Well, they demilled it by shortening the firing pin. Guess how long it took me to fix that gun? Hint: it took me longer to find the right person to call for the part by a long, long ways. This was at Ramstein in maybe 1977. I was 12. With the Internet? 10 minutes tops.
The possible combinations for a 3 digit code are not many (1000 to be exact). Anyone can unlock it within minutes. Just start at 000 and work your way to 999.
The lock itself may be able to engage and disengage in under a second but, if you’re the assailant, how many shots could you get off or how fast can you get to the victim before they punch in the code. While the body is being filled with adrenaline. And maybe you’re walking up at 3 am. And will you have one in the chamber? Will you remember at 3 am if you put one in the chamber?
I don’t think it’s necessary to even go over the issues faced with a LEO having one of these for a duty piece.
Lastly, how often would you train with this gun at a range or even your back yard (if you’re lucky enough to live in the country), if you have to enter your code, fire, then enter your code again so the alarm doesn’t go off in 10 seconds while you refill your magazine.
The pictured gun can’t have 1000 codes because the possible numbers are 1-6, not 0-9.
Even easier then.
6 x 6 x 6 = 216 possible combinations taking any three at a time with repeats.
Good example/lesson here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw231YQi9yE
That can be defeated by some form of ‘wrong code entered lockout’.
Example: Enter the code wrong, the gun won’t accept a code re-entry for a set length of time…
Geoff, that’s a horrible idea.
Under stressful conditions you’re going to be insanely likely to fat finger your PIN repeatedly. Lockout would render you defenseless and the subsequent alarm would render you found, known by your attacker to be defenseless and then known by the universe to be shortly dead. How long are you going to want to wait to be able to re-enter your PIN? The entire concept is flawed and the proposed implementation is catastrophic even without bad PIN lockout functionality.
It’s open to destructive disablement of the locking mechanism, can easily be brute forced, announces its presence, fails completely to accomplish one of the advertised capabilities (theft avoidance, not deterrence, avoidance) and as anyone who’s ever played with electronics knows, it’ll fail the first time you really need to depend on it. So what are they going to do to remedy that? Probably allow the operator to bypass all of those security features.
Adding electricity and/or additional mechanisms to a device meant to be as dead reliable and simple as possible only increases the failure surface area.
Smart guns are not either. They’re diversions in the discussion of dangerous freedom over safe servitude.
If you want to make guns safer to unauthorized users you’re unclear on what a gun is and what an unauthorized user is.
Even if it works perfectly, its worse- it gives anyone the idea that they can leave a loaded gun in a drawer. Their kid can handle it without risk or fear. Then Johnnie goes to the friend’s house, finds a standard gun, and thinks it’s also safe to handle and point at his friend. Infinitely better to teach that all guns are dangerous and should be secured, that he shouldn’t touch any of them without permission, no matter what.
Don’t these people understand that their “solution” is worse than the problem?
“Don’t these people understand that their “solution” is worse than the problem?”
I think you nailed it for this issue! Nicely done!
Agreed. The solution to people doing stupid things is not smarter guns, but smarter people.
As with all the other gun on the market, including the other smart gun…
Fine with me, you want one, buy one.
Just dont mandate them.
You make the point.
Other arguments: see “Don’t Israeli carry” video posted earlier today.
These “Smart Guns” all seem to me like a perfectly positioned means to get yourself a posthumous “Darwin Award”. Go for it.
Were I to buy one, it would be as a novelty. Nothing more. The idea of cops using one is laughable. When a cop draws his pistol it is nearly in a reaction mode. If they have time to prepare, its “Shotgun, rifles, & swat” not pistols.
Treading on those SEAL creds to sell guns to idiots. Eh, if it makes him money I guess.
The idea that it’s an anti theft system is retarded. Six digits… so with a three digit code… that’s what… 120 possible codes? Using six digits like 720 possibilities? Something like that. Either way, not a lot.
“PIN number” is redundant – OK, now the Internet is safe again. A PIN can be cracked or stolen. Any electronic lock can be defeated in a mechanical device.
“PIN-number-” That’s what I was going to say. I have seen “Personal PIN Number” and _that_ gives me chest pain. 8>)
PIN number
VIN number
ATM machine
All of these are redundant over and over again, brought to us by the Department of Redundancy Department.
Well, to be fair– sometimes (every time?) 3-digit acronyms have multiple meanings. While not exactly confusing when used in a sentence involving money or some non-technical discussion, “ATM” is also very very widely understood to mean Adobe Type Manager and Asynchronous Transfer Mode. Probably tons of others, depending on one’s background. ATF isn’t just a government agency, it’s also Automatic Transmission Fluid. The list is endless.
With a little bit of noise or whatever Ay-Tee-Em can be misunderstood by the listener. Adding “machine” is redundant, but clarifying.
Back on topic, these guns are dumb. I do see that he has left and right hand pads, but it’s a dumb idea for all those mentioned. 216 combinations? Now why wouldn’t I steal it? I’ll have the combination before we make out of the neighborhood.
Uh yeah… a non-safe safety. Sure-get one for Odumbo and the hildebeast’s SS crew 1st. I hear ya’ on phones, locks and computer codes-I got tons of #’s and codes to remember in my old age. Brain farts R us…
This is proof of how stupid people have become.
Let me translate the audio for everyone who don’t understand the native tongue of liberal bullshit:
“Hi, I’m a former navy seal and let me show you why I’m such a horrible parent and a dingle berry. If you’re to lazy like me to be situational aware or store your weapons correctly then have I got a product for you! With only using a 3 digit code that a child could guess, just awkwardly input your pin code and hope it works. After you input your pin from being scared, shaking and in a hurry, your gun will activate”.
So what do you, former navy seal do when say you need to protect your family RIGHT the HELL NOW, and the battery dies?
[Dr. Krieger] Nope nope nope. [/Dr. Krieger]
Force all the 3-letter guvment agencies and the politi-critter bodyguards use it, let see how they like that cluster of fun.
Ok, so lots of bashing here so I won’t reiterate what everyone else is saying. Instead let me offer one bit of praise. I think if there is a silver lining to this not-so-well thought out prototype its the auto lock feature when the grip safety is disengaged. I like the idea of a gun that can shut itself down if wrestled away from me.
I get that because of NJ laws involving smart guns have tainted the waters on this subject. I wonder would we be so adamant against smart gun tech if it were not for anti-gunners in this regard. Personally I’d love a smart gun EXACTLY like the one in Judge Dread, explosive rounds and all!
“I like the idea of a gun that can shut itself down if wrestled away from me.”
So do I, until I think about the other times it might decide to shut-down. Like if I relax my grip, or shift the pistol to my other hand to open a door. And then 10 seconds after that, the alarm goes off to tell anyone nearby that I am temporarily unable to defend myself.
Yeah, no thanks.
and nobody is even talking about batteries, or how poorly electronics seem to handle shock and vibration (as evidenced by how many red dot sights I’ve bought over the years)
I’ll talk about batteries. For it to be truly resistant to unauthorized use, the default failure mode for a dead battery must be locking the pistol to prevent use. That means if you need it to defend your life, and the battery is dead…then so are you.
Let’s take the whole dead battery thing another step.
Okay, the gun (herein after referred to as ‘luggage’ ….(“1 2 3 4 5. Hey, that’s the same combination I use on my luggage!”) must have some finite battery life. If the luggage compartment that holds the battery is secure from the bad guys’ tampering, how does the luggage’s owner change the battery?
It can’t be a small/simple task, making the luggage even more useless when (not ‘if’) the battery dies and you need in RIGHT FRIGGIN’ NOW for self defense.
Great idea. Not.
Big ol’ pile of NOPE. Stress = fine motor skills go to hell.
Loretta Weinberg (NJ’s version of Diane Feinstein) wanted to fix her smart gun mandate and make it work better for the the gun grabbers.
The Dems passed the upgrade, and Christie vetoed. it. If he had vetoed a straight bill to revoke the mandate, then we’d have something new to complain about.
I don’t care what gizmos he has, what psycho has his little boy point a gun at his little girl.
Ditto. It’s only a matter of time before he becomes the next TTAG’s irresponsible gun owner of the day
I’d like to know what gun stores have ordered a million dollars worth of these two years before they’re released if they make it that far…
So… all I have to do is look for which numbers are greasy, worn, or otherwise glinting from scratches? cool…
That might narrow-down your choices, yes.
I am not a math wiz, but according to the Online Permutation Calculator (yes there is one!) If the conditions are six buttons with a three-digit pin and each button can be used more than once in the combination number of permutations are only 216 possible combinations. A kid left alone with a gun is not going to care about he alarm, so if the kid is clever, and a lot of them are, the should be able to go through all the combinations in somewhere between three to ten minutes. And you know a kid will do it.
I’m sure it works great in that AirSoft prototype, but beat on those electronics with the recoil from a thousand rounds of real 9mm, and let’s see what happens.
And as others have pointed out, a PIN is zero protection from theft. It would take, what, a half hour to input all the possible three-digit combos until you find the right one? Put in some earplugs and start punching in numbers.
Also, that kid in the video is the perfect age to be well acquainted with Eddie Eagle, which is a much better idea than relying on electronic gizmos and lazy storage practices.
Well, that won’t happen. I can’t imagine having to punch in the PIN enough times to shoot a thousand rounds.
Good point. I imagine this thing would make it through about two or three range trips of fumbling with the PIN (with possible unsafe gun handling to do so if you don’t have rock-solid muzzle discipline), having the alarm go off unexpectedly because you nudged the gun sitting on the bench, etc, etc, and it’s back to the gun shop for a proper gun that isn’t an irritating pain in the ass to use.
This one isn’t perfect, but it’s been around for over 20 years. Obviously, you’d need two rings and they will ruin your credit cards. Still… it has a niche.
http://tarnhelm.com/magna-trigger/gun/safety/magna1.html
I have a gimp right hand. To engage the grip safety and press the keys with my thumb would be a hassle. And so I would imagine it would be even harder for those with two normal hands, but who have one occupied (I am used to one handed manipulation of everything)
I haven’t see a smart gun I am on board with, but this one seems one of the worst as for as thought put into it. At least a thumbprint requires just holding it (problem is scanners are not very good, time, reliability), and the RFID proximity. But we know the flaws there, but at least it they don’t require extra manipulation.
Why the hell do so many people insist on putting the locking device in the gun itself? It’s like they’ve never heard of a removable action or trigger lock, which deter unauthorized use already, and can be retrofitted to practically any existing firearm design.
This gun is for a market that doesn’t exist. For those interested in keeping guns safe from children, there are cheaper and more reliable ways.
For those that are not interested, they are not going to buy this $1k gizmo when they wouldn’t even used the free lock that came with their gun.
When I need advice about hair gell, I’ll call a former SEAL. Gun “safety”, not so much.
So, try doing all of that at 1:00A.M. In the morning. While your going from the white to the red zone in all of about ten seconds. And God help you if you wear glasses and can’t the buttons. Yea, what could possibly go wrong?
I carry autos, but keep a nice double-action revolver by the bed for the reason you describe. Far less chance of a mistake.
The technology would be useless against a determined thief and is unnecessary to protect 2-year olds.
Common sense dictates that firearms should be kept on the person or locked-up when the presence of youth that are too young to be trained is possible or probable.
I home carry and have no underage children in my house and don’t anticipate any but I lock-up all of my firearms when not in use.
Future of smart 2; what could go wrong!
1. It has been determined by the Demo-Erratically control US government through the ATFE, DOJ, FBI, and the Whiterwater–I’m mean Whitehouse. That because Trump misspoke, DNC ,and President Elect.—candidate, Hillary “Do No wrong ” Clinton are concerned that they may be attacked, or assassinated by NRA-TYPE Domestic terrorists because of Trumps misunderstood comments regarding the old 2nd amendment. So as a precaution, Nationwide, with the Help of safety 1st systems…We are “Temporarily changing ” all Firearm Pin numbers to protect the government and general public. An emergency situation requiring assistance for home invasion, B&E, deadly assaults, al other active shooters, etc….You should immediately contact *911* for Local / State Law Enforcement who are properly trained to handle such incidents…The government will notify all owners when the “lock-down ” is lifted..A new expanded mental Healthcare, political re-education, and background check may be required…Please remain calm…
2. Alarm activation under false alarm automatically causes Law enforcement to arrive at your home. Because it is a remotely activated panic alarm to a firearm *(probably mandatory in some states )* The Local or city police can use ” exigent circumstances ” to kick in your door, and seize your firearms, and other property they deam unfit, or hazardous. All without a warrant. May require multiple Expanded mental heathcare, and background checks before—maybe you get your firearms back…perfect for states like; California, NJ, NY, MD, Connecticut, Massachusetts, etc…
The reaction is so anti for any kind of change to the mechanical release of a spring loaded firing pin. Electronics will be part of the firearm future just like every other product we have today. There is a generation of customers that will embrace different aspects of firearm features.
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