Matthew Dolloff pinkerton denver shooting
This photo provided by the Denver Police Department shows Matthew Dolloff. Police identified on Sunday, Oct. 11, 2020, a 30-year-old man as the suspect in a fatal shooting that took place in downtown Denver during dueling protests. Matthew Dolloff, a private security guard working for local television station KUSA TV, was being held for investigation of first degree murder in connection with Saturday afternoon's shooting, Denver police said in a social media post. (Denver Police Department via AP)

From the Associated Press:

A private security guard working for a local TV station was jailed for investigation of first-degree murder in the deadly shooting of another man during dueling right- and left-wing protests in downtown Denver, police said Sunday.

Matthew Dolloff, 30, was taken into custody in connection with a clash that took place Saturday afternoon in Civic Center Park.

Lee Keltner Dolloff shooting
Courtesy Twitter

A man participating in what was billed a “Patriot Rally” slapped and sprayed Mace at a man who appeared to be Dolloff, the Denver Post reported, based on its photographs from the scene. The man identified by the newspaper as Dolloff drew a gun from his waistband and shot the other person, according to the Denver Post journalist who witnessed the episode.

The shooting victim, whose name was not released, died at a hospital.

Lee Keltner, left, as another man fatally fires a gun, Saturday, Oct. 10, 2020 in Denver. Keltner was supporting the “Patriot Rally” and sprayed mace at the man on the right side of the image. The man at right then shot and killed the protester at left. A private security guard, Matthew Dolloff, working for a TV station, was in custody. (Helen H. Richardson/The Denver Post via AP)

A decision on any charges will be up to the Denver District Attorney’s Office, police said. A spokesperson for District Attorney Beth McCann said Sunday that the arrest affidavit in the case remained sealed and referred further questions to the police.

It was not immediately clear if Dolloff had an attorney.

Police Division Chief Joe Montoya said two guns were found at the scene, as well as a mace can.

The shooting occurred beneath a city surveillance camera, and police said they have footage of the incident, KUSA-TV reported.

KUSA said it had hired the guard through the Pinkerton security firm. “It has been the practice of 9NEWS for a number of months to hire private security to accompany staff at protests,” the station said.

The right-wing Patriot Rally was one of two demonstrations happening at about the same time that drew hundreds of people to the park. Protesters at a left-wing “BLM-Antifa Soup Drive” nearby held up flags and signs railing against Nazis and white supremacists.

Representatives of Pinkerton did not immediately return email and telephone messages for comment.

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263 COMMENTS

  1. “We contracted him through Pinkerton”.

    Interesting way to word it.
    I predict Pinkerton will throw Matt and News9 under the bus tomorrow, claiming to have no input in the hiring of Matt.

    Personally, I think he was chosen by Kyle or by the station because of his history as a leader in Denver’s radical left protest movements, to give Kyle Clark street cred by association, as in “that guy’s one of us, he’s with Matt”.

  2. I’ve been maced on two occasions, one was so bad that lost my vision and unable to breath. The perp i was arresting was fleeing and I was afraid he would return to attack me. I jumped on his back and chocked him out, very big scary EDP. So if your incapacitated by mase what are your options, take a beating , fatal hit to the head or stop the threat.
    Just my thoughts

    • You were effecting a lawful arrest.
      Your opponent was resisting arrest and assaulting an officer.

      Dolloff was initiating or participating in an altercation, and introduced firearms into it after somebody else introduced pepper spray.

      • The man with the bear spray was there with other armed men. Someone took out a knife, another took out a baton and the shooting victim took out bear spray.

        The bear spray man aggressively approached the armed security and demanded he to take his hands out/off where he had them, which was in the ready position to draw from appendix concealment. This is where you see the guard try to deflect the canister and is open palm struck to the face. The bear spray man then says “mother fucker” and steps back to spray the security contractor as he draws his gun. The security draws his gun and fires a head shot immediately after being sprayed.

        It appears the biker with the bear spray had a handgun in a shoulder holster. The police said they seized two handguns from the scene and made two arrests. The other person arrested was an employee of the news channel, he was released because he had no part in the shooting, he was simply standing behind the security contractor.

        The security contractor did not jump in between the men, he was standing off to the side watching along side the other news channel employees. The news photographer is the man who took the pictures everyone is using.

        The biker is the one that approached and made threats, he may have also had a gun on him. He started the entire violent situation that lead to his death. He could have not approached the armed security and assault him, he could have not stepped back and sprayed the armed security contractor, he could have just walked away like the other old man asked of him. His ego was challenged and he lost the stupid game by winning a hollow point to the brain.

        • I’m finding myself in the awkward position of not immediately disagreeing with Chief. I’m seeing two people who got into an unfortunate altercation, each appearing to escalate things unnecessarily.

          I need more details on this event before I can provide any comment.

        • The security contractor did not jump in between the men, he was standing off to the side watching… The biker is the one that approached and made threats…

          Tim Pool: “According to a reporter on scene the shooter approached the Trump supporter initiating the confrontation”

          But the linked article in Tim’s tweet doesn’t say that, so who knows what he’s talking about.

        • “The security contractor did not jump in between the men, he was standing off to the side watching
 The biker is the one that approached and made threats


          Tim Pool: “According to a reporter on scene the shooter approached the Trump supporter initiating the confrontation”

          But the linked article in Tim’s tweet doesn’t say that, so who knows what he’s talking about.”

          Look closely at the image on the top of this TTAG story. The shootee is flat footed and stationary. The shooter is stepping forward (heel of rt foot raised with rt leg back), while reaching for the pepper spray can. This image shows the shootee was TOTALLY justified in the act of slapping his killer. This POS Shooter was attempting to remove personal property from his victim.
          The lesson here? Keep your F’in hands off others property.
          This shitbird should NEVER see the outside of a jail cell for the rest of his days.

        • ‘security contractor’ is an overstatement as he had no credentials to his name according to state licensing records. He will be convicted of murder in the first and serve a life sentence.

        • I watched the video a few times. I’ve not worked up any sympathy for the “victim” here. He was in people’s faces, screaming “Shoot me, Nigger!”

          Hmmmm – where have we heard that same challenge, very recently? Oh yeah – Kenosha. “Shoot me, Nigger!” When someone is begging to be shot, he doesn’t have a lot to complain about when he does get shot.

          I wish there were more videos from different angles. But, I can’t really bring myself to care a lot whether the shooter is burned, or not. Everyone in the video seemed to be provoking everyone else. Idiots all around.

        • I watched several different videos covering 5-6 different people, and one (1) person was trying to quiet things down, EVERY other person was actively looking for more and more trouble. End of story, if all of them had been killed I wouldn’t have cared a whit, good riddance. Dead guy at least provided a lesson that lotsa tats does not equal a protective vest. Doesn’t get you much sympathy, either.

          Oh, and I don’t think there were any Trump supporters there, or Biden supporters either, or police supporters. Those were nutbar thugs looking for trouble.

        • Chief cockbreath, kindly eat a dick. The shooter was no “security guard” officially hired though any security company. He has no security credentials. Stop espousing lies to try and defend antifa scum. A news producer known to be sympathetic to antifa hired a gunman known to be an antifa activist (ie michael reinoehl), used his press credentials to get a paid antagonist inside the patriot rally area (which was already winding down with no violent actions) to try and film trump supporters harassing a black man. False flag, false pretense, fucking smoke screen. I hope the shooter hangs on the first degree murder charge which has been filed against him and anyone else involved are found guilty as accomplices to murder.

    • There were 2 people with guns confronting Mr. Keltner. Keltner maced the unsub with gun #1; at which point Dolloff drew down on Keltner, Keltner then discharged his mace a split second before Dolloff fired his pistol at Keltner.

      My problem with all this is, Keltner was trying to fight a gunfight with OC spray. Not very effective. Worse considering there were TWO people with firearms drawn! He repelled the unsub, but not Dolloff who had time to react.

      Nobody is asking who the unsub was. He abandoned a firearm at the scene of a crime.

      • I heard that 2 guns were recovered at the scene, but didn’t know if:
        1. Dolloff had a BUG.
        2. Clark had a gun.
        3. Keltner’s corpse had a gun.
        4. Another party dropped a gun and ran.

        • Armed men threatens black male BLM supporter. The armed men are anti BLM. The black man asks why you pull out a knife, he hears an armed man say he would shoot him. Black man freaks out and calls the man’s bluff by shouting “shoot me then” and says he has the right to stand his ground. Security witnesses the situation unfolding and makes a comment. Armed man aggressively approaches the security to threaten him. Armed man hits the security guard and exposes his own gun. Armed man steps back and shouts “mother fucker” then sprays security guard. Armed man dies on scene from a head shot and has his gun seized from his dead body. Armed man was there with his armed son and buddies to stand up and fight Antifa and BLM.

          So… Looks like what it looked like from the beginning: a defensive gun use of the day.

          No responsible gun owner is going to back a man, with a “Don’t Tread on Me” tattoo, who is bullying people knowing he is armed with a handgun. This man came out for trouble and thought scruffy boy was a push over so he treaded on him. Yet this man claims to support law and order and backs the police.

          Felony menacing. Felony assault. Felony use of a firearm. Disorderly conduct. Disturbing the peace. To name a few possible charges for the now dead law and order biker.

        • No censor, security guy approaches bear spray guy and tries to grab his can of bear spray, held low and at his side. Security guy gets rebuffed and bitch slapped. Security guy draws and fires. Bear spray guy raises bear spray as that is what he has in his hand.

          In the primary photo being circulated you can see that the gun is already going back into battery when the bear spray is proliferating. Bear spray guy was already dead when he sprayed, or slightly before. No justification for this at all.

        • The chief saw what I saw. There was no second armed guy with a gun opposing dead guy, he was the second gun. There was no justification for anybody spraying nor shooting anyone, they were all shitheads except that one fellow trying to calm down dead guy and Black Guns Matter guy. Even then, I don’t know why he was there if he had any sense.

      • and as it should be disregarding the burning of buildings ” the power” should sleep, a silver war(spybot) without government intervention.

  3. Previous story made the security guard out to be a tattooed member of antifa. Hard to tell in the photo if the shooter is lowering the muzzle or if the muzzle is recoil elevated. Looks like what could be a puff of gunsmoke going toward the sprayer. Sometimes it’s more trouble than it’s worth to analyze stupid.

    • The shell casing can be seen leaving the firearm, and the shooter fired only one round. This means that the bullet is either in between the shooter and the shootee or has already entered the shootee’s face and he hasn’t reacted yet.

        • Looks more to me like the slide was moving forward into battery, just like how Strych9 hypothesized. The spent casing was just launched…

        • Has to be going back into battery. The slide isn’t far enough back to eject the casing seen in the air.

      • Idk if it’s just me but kinda looks like there may be a bullet hole in the left lens of his sunglasses.

        Good shot.

        • Yep, blood was filling the area where the eye was, making it darker…

      • No matter how many times I look at the photo the shell being ejected doesn’t look spent. The slide is back and there is smoke but it looks like the bullet is still in the shell. The glare along the case seems to extend along the length of what looks to be a seated bullet. There doesn’t seem to be any entrance or medication of an impact of a bullet in the man shot either.

    • He is BLM, not antifa. And Doloff HAS a tattoo… which is how we know who he is, and from that we can see his extensive posting on radical leftist causes and his affiliation with BLM.

      All one needs to do is a little bit of investigation. It’s not hard.

      • Tim Pool actually did a deep dive into this guys social media history and other stuff.

        Since this doesn’t fit the narrative of the media this will drop the media cycle in a few days

        • Tim Pool confirms the man is not Antifa. Tim Pool was down at the Occupy Wall Street protests. So either Tim Pool and Dolloff are both Antifa communist agents or they are both Democrats active in politics.

    • How wise would it be to start trouble with a group that Tig is affiliated with ? He’s one of the big boys that these idiots do not want to antagonize !

    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upd0DcOanIo

      He’s had a wrist tat associated with anarchists/antifa/BLM for years.
      It’s a Space Invader with a one word caption.
      The word would indicate the meaning, if I could only read it.

      Antifa has used it as ‘space invaders against Fascism’
      BLM version is ‘space invaders against Racism’

      Dolloff’s version leaves off the against text above the symbol, with one word below the symbol.

  4. All it takes is one look at these two to tell who deserves the dirt nap….
    Just look at the fat, tattooed commie scum… then when he pulled out his mace he thought THAT would protect his life???
    You threaten me and then spray mace at me????? You better be prepared for me to STAND MY GROUND you fat commie scum bag…

    • Hey dumbass, STFU. The old fart with the mace was the patriot. The skinny dude who shot him was BLM. How about you ytake 10 minutes to get your facts straight before you initiate your projectile diarrhea from your piehole??

      • Go eat $hit ….. doesn’t matter YOU STUPID MFER….. IT WAS A GOOD SHOOT….
        WHY DON’T YOU GO SUCKLE YOUR MOMMY SOME MORE….B!tch

        • And I don’t view everything politically like your mouth breathing a$$….. it’s people like YOU giving POTG a bad reputation…
          So go sit your little a$$ down before your mommy comes for you to suckle her breasts…. even if you are 15 years old!….
          That’s sick btw…. perverts and incestuous dirtbags you are…

        • You’re to vulgar to censor yourself, try spelling it out.

          Good shoot?

          Guys that arrested him have a video you haven’t seen and charged him with 1st degree murder.

        • Are you just trying to defend your no information position? BLM boy who was supposed to be a security guard (deescalate situations not go guns blazing) screwed up hard. He has no real security credentials and no real ties to the Pinkerton agency besides declaring to be one himself. 9 news is known to be friendly with extreme leftist types and somehow he has a job providing security for them while armed at a rally that he would be antagonistic towards. You’re so quick to determine who deserves death by just a quick glance and by your admission you would ally yourself with radical leftists because I guess bland grey jump suits wont offend your sensibilities. Communist scum like you deserve the “dirt nap” you’d so gleefully condemn someone for not dressing the way deem fit. Drink bleach to help the rest of the country no one deserves to be damned by your presence.
          And never say “it’s people like YOU giving POTG a bad reputation” without looking at yourself first. You don’t speak for me and I sure as hell will never speak for you.

        • @John Paul

          How on earth do you figure? I sure hope you think Kenosha Kyle deserves to be behind bars, then. Because it’s just as justified here.

          Dead guy assaults the armed man. Armed man draws is firearm in response to being assaulted. Dead guy assaults him AGAIN, this time with a chemical agent that will leave the latter temporarily blinded\incapacitated. In other words, unable to defend himself.

          If that isn’t a justification for shooting there must be no such thing short of being under fire.

        • “Drink bleach to help the rest of the country”

          I think we have a Trump supporter here, have you shoved a UV light up your bunghole yet, that’s also part of trumps instructions you know.

      • “Patriot” dude is a moron who got what he asked for.

        How he voted doesn’t change that. Self-defense is universal and if someone attacks me, give me cause to draw a weapon and THEN tries to attack me again with a blinding chemical agent, it’s now a gunfight. Don’t care if you have a donkey or elephant bumper sticker.

        • Nope. The requirement for responding with deadly force is a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury. Mace (etc) is typically considered non lethal by the police. The shooter appears to be the one who upgraded the dispute from non-deadly to deadly, and thus was not legally entitled to use deadly force.

        • It’s pretty obvious the laws do not account for all the scenarios…. so with that being said, once again, spray mace at me and prepare for me to end the altercation….I WILL STAND MY GROUND….. AND IDGAF WHAT THE INFILTRATED .GOV OFFICIALS SAY OR DO…..I WOULD RATHER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6…

          This is what the 2nd is about…. SELF PRESERVATION…. WE ARE GRANTED THE RIGHTS BY GOD, NOT BY GOV

        • Police have shot and killed people in the past for macing or trying to mace them. The rationale is that if a police officer is just incapacitated by a non leathal weapon, then there is a extereme danger of the attacker being able to steal the officer’s gun to kill said officer or harm others with it However, it seems the law does not extend this rationale to non LEOs who carry, even though they can face this same danger.

        • There were no good guys present, send them ALL to prison for 5+ years. BTW, I’ve seen mention of a black guy here, but did not notice one in any of the videos. All of them white troublemakers, although I assume that somewhere there were police supporters since that was supposed to be what the rally was about. They were not here.

  6. Interesting pistol setup, Glock 19 (MOS) with an RMR and a Streamlight, I say interesting as I don’t see Pinkerton issuing these, but I could be wrong.

    • I worked in security as an HR Manager for a number of years. Typically, security companies don’t issue service weapons. You use your personal weapon, subject to certain company restrictions.

      Now, I’m sure it’s way different for high-end firms like Blackwater and other quasi-military outfits. And there’s always exceptions to every rule. But for your typical guard service, it’s not really a thing.

        • yeah,..now that I think about it…every time I worked for the feds I was issued a weapon…sometimes I was able to take it home…sometimes not…lesser contracts just asked you to provide your own….spent a little time working for Pinkerton…nothing really special about them these days….

      • The way it worked in CA the last time I was involved was you had to have separate credentials. A basic guard card to work. But if you worked armed you had to have a weapons card. You had to test and qualify on the different calibers you wanted to use. .40, .38/.357, 9mm just about covered all the bases.

        Most armed security contractors required a certain caliber for that assignment and they required you to provide your own holsters, etc. If you wanted to carry pepper spray or a baton it required separate cards for that, too.

        As a rule, unless you got into a .gov contract, armed security was only paying about 5 bucks an hour more than unarmed.

    • I think it will become apparent that Pinkerton’s was not involved in any portion of this clusterfuck.

  7. There has to be more to this story, even for a wacko leftist, doing this in broad daylight with cameras everywhere, and within sight of substantial number of law enforcement seems unlikely.

    Then again, it’s 2020

    • Almost all of these guys are independent contractors…it’s a common gig these days, that those who are wise and not desperate for cash won’t take. They bring their own gear, some better than others. This guy apparently bothers to care about what he carries. I assure you he didn’t get it from Pinkertons.

      A side effect is that Pinkertons isn’t super careful about ensuring licensing, suitability, or screening of their contractors, especially not when they need somebody quick.

      The guys they hire come from the same spectrum of people in the community…so who knows what the guy’s personal politics or other activities are. As far as who the agressor was, I haven’t seen enough video, so I dunno. Either way, he did exactly what someone should expect many PPS agents to do when hit and sprayed.

      • A lot of Millennial former military men become private security contractors instead of cops. Was the thing to do back when the war first started. It paid very well. Most people moved on once the federal funds started to dry up. Some people continued to provide security in more civilized environments. Politics doesn’t matter to them, they provide security for whomever pays.

  9. I saw the guy in the black BLM tee shirt as the main instigator/inciter in all this. Loud mouthed, pushing and pushing, trying to get a reaction from someone. Lots of yelling and shouting. Such things only serve to get the crowd amped up and on edge. Even those around him that he was not trying to rile.
    This was a bad shoot all around. I too would like to know who the second gun owner is. (I can’t afford to drop my gun and leave it behind!!)

    • One of the photos appears to show the biker having a handgun in a shoulder holster, which would be the second gun recovered. There is a video of the man after the shooting being treated, it could show them taking the gun off of his body, but the video is graphic and may not be circulating because of the gore.

  10. Another rent-a-cop who probably grew up on call of honor and the other stupid games! You wanna talk gun control , how bout actually screening these clowns!!!

      • Probably because dollof was a killer who belonged to antifa. That security guy in seattle took an AR that was looted from a cop car from antifa without killing anybody. If dollop had been there he would have shot the security guy.

        • That’s defamation. Zero evidence for such accusations. The government confirms no basis in fact for such claims.

          The Japanese video game Space Invaders is not Antifa. The tattoo is about other things not related to an European ideology.

        • You must know nothing about bikers that age and race. I would not be surprised he was part of a “club” as they like to call it these days.

          I know from personal experience.

        • You have a clear Agenda to distort, that much is clear. You’re a socialist troll fake insider wannabe. I know from experience.

        • “Chief Censor says:
          October 11, 2020 at 18:42
          You must know nothing about bikers that age and race. I would not be surprised he was part of a “club” as they like to call it these days.

          I know from personal experience.”

          Oh, so CC is letting everyone know he’s seen a few episodes of “Sons of Anarchy”
          Thanks for clearing that up CC.
          And what’s with the ” that age and race” BS!?!?
          Such an ageists AND racist comment to make. Only showing everyone on TTAG what a DemoKKKRatic POS he really is.
          GFY CC!
          Trump/Pence 2020

        • Come on, everybody knows that most bikers are right wing nut jobs who hate n*****s.

          I’ve never seen a black member of the pagans or the avengers or the HAs.

          The biker dude was just there for racist fun, his work a day job is cooking meth and selling it to your kids.

        • “I’ve never seen a black member of the pagans or the avengers or the HAs.”
          Wow, can you take a guess how many men who like like the victim and reside in the US are members of those 3 biker groups?
          I would bet it’s below .00001
          Get a clue racist.
          Trump/Pence 2020

        • I grew up friends with a biker club. They were all black. Some of the nicest folk I have known, especially to a dumbass 15-year-old white kid. Threw some great parties, too!

        • It appears the CC and Miner never post simultaneously – likely because they share have to share one brain cell.

      • Wow, this didn’t age well too, now did it CC. “Gotta stop all those violent bikers” huh.🙄
        Lots of posts on here like “Chief cockbreath, kindly eat a dick” too.
        Trump/Pence 2020

        • Hahaha that’s me. I’m just your average dude from Texas who couldn’t watch chief fuckface keep spewing his bullshit commie lies on this great forum any longer. Especially when there are so many questions yet to be answered. Authorities have charged the shooter with 1st degree murder, we’ll see how it shakes out and what evidence they have to support the charge.

  11. Whatever else happened, I feel the prosecutor will have a hard time getting a conviction on someone who shot a guy yelling “shoot me”.

    • I know a man that went to prison because he and his buddy were drinking. Buddy dared him to run him over. Laid down in the street for him.

      You can’t fix stupid. But you can run it over and then put the survivor in prison.

      • Wait, seriously? Where’s the criminal intent there? One appeal should have been all it took to overturn that. Or have courts decided to drop that basic premise of the law entirely and just rule on everything as strict liability now?

        • I think when he sobered up he was so full of remorse for his friends death that he just gave up and challenged nothing. He was never very bright. This thing destroyed him and his family. I knew most of his brothers. It really affected everybody. I never knew the dead guy. But his family was also destroyed by this. They were so young when it happened.

          Dude has been out of prison for quite a while now. He usually lives in one of his family members garages or in a homeless shelter.

    • Doesn’t work that way. To use deadly force, the threat has to be reasonable and imminent that the other party will likely cause death or great bodily injury. You can yell anything that you want at someone. They might punch you out. But they can’t legally shoot you absent a real threat.

      • A man says he is going to kill you, and he possesses just two hands, the moment he lurches at you, his life is forfeit. Let’s not pretend that hands are not deadly weapons. Among all the statistics on “gun crimes” – more people are killed with hands and feet every year, than are killed with rifles. It is NOT necessary that the person you are defending your self against is carrying a gun, or even a knife.

      • Kyle Rittenhouse has already had lawsuits filed against him and he hasn’t been to trial for the criminal charges.

        • “And they will be dropped because Kyle was in the right.”

          Actually, Chief, I bet they go through with the Kyle prosecution, simply because of the ramifications in the ‘community’ if they drop the charges.

          Pretty much identically with the George Zimmerman prosecution. They knew they had nothing, but they had to play the game anyways…

      • “The family may have no grounds to sue.”
        For it to be a justified shooting, the shooter CANNOT instigate or escalate the situation before initiating the use of deadly force. Reaching in and grabbing for the pepper spray can was a CLEAR escalation of the confrontation, and he had NO authority to behave in such a manner.
        The family has amazing and awesome grounds to sue.
        Once again, CC is cluelessness.
        Trump/Pence 2020.

    • My guess is that both get sued for wrongful death. And remember, a criminal conviction requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Wrongful death mere requires proof by a preponderance if the evidence, a much lower standard. If the victim was not pulling a gun, at the time he was shot, which is unlikely, since he was both retreating and using mace against his attacker at the time he was shot, then the shooting is very likely unlicensed, as self defense. I suspect it is going to be hard to overcome. And both Pinkerton and the TV station have somewhat deep pockets.

  13. “fuck around and find out” works both ways.

    If you try and mace someone holding a gun at you
    1) you’re an idiot
    2) you better not have just assaulted him if you expect him to be culpable

    • That’s my take Hannibal…you spray that chit in my face I WILL shoot you. It’s called ASSAULT. It doesn’t matter what “side” you’re on. I honestly don’t know why more azzwholes don’t get shot. Left,right or centrist.

      • Do you guys have access to a video that so clearly proves that dead guy strikes first?

        Do the laws of Colorado allow for someone to use lethal force in response to non lethal force aggression?

        • In the video, you can hear the spray go off just before the shot. I take that to mean that the gun was out and possibly on target when dead guy decides to fend off an armed man with his mace. The shooter was wrong and should go to jail, but mace guy was dumb.

        • “Do the laws of Colorado allow for someone to use lethal force in response to non lethal force aggression?”

          No. You must have a reasonable fear of death or grave bodily harm to yourself or another and you may not initiate a violent confrontation and then claim self-defense. However, individual disparity of force is a considerarion.

          If you intentionally escalate a non-lethal encounter you similarly can’t claim self defense. So, you can’t for instance get into a verbal confrontation, step aggressively toward the other person, get scared, back away, draw and fire. Your aggressive move forward lets them legally put hands on you to defend themselves, from your advance. Without a legal justification for having made this advance you just became the aggressor.

          Basically, particularly in Denver which is even tighter on use of deadly force, unless the start of this altercation is the slap (which is to say that the dead guy just walked up and physically assaulted the shooter for no reason, or words were exchanged and the dead guy made the first physical move into conflict) the shooter is fucked.

          In some situations this can be a damned fine line and if you end up on the wrong side of it you’re in a whole heap of trouble. At the present time it seems that DPD believes that the shooter crossed that line.

        • In the video of dead guy and Black guns matter guy, those two were pissing and moaning at each other while a hero guy tried to calm them down. Dead guy had the mace in his hand. With hero guy between them, dead guy turned and left the screen to the right while hero guy remained occupied by black guns matter guy. Something like 5 seconds later dead guy fell back into the scene, his culture cancelled. His interaction with the shooter had to be VERY quick.

      • I hate the violent BLM and ANTIFA losers as much as any red blooded American, but this biker dude was wrong AF and he got what what he had coming, all politics aside.

  14. It is interesting (although not surprising) to see how the MSM is handling this story in comparison to the Kyle Rittenhouse incident. Rittenhouse was immediately labeled the “bad guy” by the media as they deemed him obviously unjustified in defending himself from “unarmed” “peaceful” “protestors”. Here, they are already vilifying the “unarmed” assailant as the “bad guy”, and are suggesting the shooter (“peaceful protestor”[?]) may have merely been defending himself from an “extreme aggressor”. We are witnessing some incredibly abstract stretching of logic here.

    I am keen to learn more factual information about this incident, but generally I have discovered that the most efficient way to winnow the truth out of the chaff being spewed forth by the MSM is to look at the individuals involved- and play pin the donkey on the ass. Generally, whomever the media decides to canonize first is invariably the most suspect of being in the wrong.

    • They didn’t just label him a bad guy. They said he was a white supremacist. That’s the go to put down from the Left. They don’t require any evidence other than you vote differently. They’ll smear anyone without a second thought.

    • Also, the MSM gets almost everything that matters exactly backwards if politics are involved.

      I haven’t looked at the video closely enough to say anything about who was really in the right or whether maybe they were both in the wrong. (Not going to; I don’t care that much.)

      But if the MSM is saying the shooter was in the right and the dead man was dead wrong, then the shooter is almost certainly at least antifa-adjacent and probably did commit murder instead of doing the sane thing and walking away.

  15. Idk if it was justified or not, all I know is it looks like he has a nice shooting stance, good two handed grip and perfect shot placement.

  16. Murder. I watched entire video, guy that was killed was retreating and holding ground from attack and was unarmed. Shooter is a verified leftist anarchist.

  17. So, why did they need to hire security guards to cover “peaceful protests?”

    These people are insane.

    • Because journalists are no longer impartial observers but instead are now active participants by pushing a narrative.

      • Plus, antifa will attack anyone not with them who tries to film anything.

        Plus, antifa routinely dress up in “press” attire and claim they’re journalists when they’re really directing anarcho-communist terrorists and throwing bricks at people’s heads.

        Plus, nobody except the progressive/left establishment likes or trusts the average journalist anymore, and the non-average journalists like Andy Ngo who are ferreting out the truth are doubly despised.

        Simply identifying yourself as a journalist marks you as a target to various people for varying reasons, some good, some not so good.

  18. The only guy with any sense was the older gent with the white whiskers trying to keep two idiots apart before one of those idiots walked away and went after the “security guard”.

    I’ve no room for sympathy for these people. Neither of them should have been there. Not the guy with the big spray can in his hand and not the guy with the pistol stuck in his pants.

    The police are saying they have their own video footage from a surveillance camera. They aren’t saying much more, just that it recorded the shooting.

    Guess that will come out at trial.

      • Truth!

        Twice, back in my early adult years, I used a firearm in self defense. Having the gun enables me to get clear of the criminal element without firing a shot.

        My hope is to never have to repeat those experiences but to always be ready for them.

        And yeah, the best way to win a gun fight is to not get into a gun fight!

  19. Vic N, said it in another post. Monkey Dance, and totally unnecessary.

    I still have not figured out what the protests are really doing besides ticking people off. Antifa, BLM, crazy people have no plans to take control of the Federal Gov, much less local. Witness the camp/No go zone that was set up. They could not even manage that.

    Civil War is in the news..but even the War of Northern Aggression was not a Civil War by definition. So what is this all about besides children throwing a tantrum? Allowing the MSM to dictate how the various movements are supposed to think and act?

    Another unnecessary death, another guy dies on a dirty sidewalk and I ask myself why? What is the point of all this?

    • Is it a motivated ideology meant to overwhelm the system like Obama tried to do or the result of too many people with mental instabilities?

      Either way, the best thing for people to do is be armed and find a way to filter out all the fake news bs.

      • “meant to overwhelm the system like Obama tried to do”

        But isn’t it interesting, the violent civil unrest and protests occur 3 years into the Trump administration?

        And remind me again, how many members of Obama’s administration have been charged, convicted and sentenced to prison?

        I mean, I’m familiar with trumps campaign manager, assistant campaign manager, personal attorney, national security advisor, etc. being sent off to prison, I just can’t remember which of the Obama administration high-level officials were ever charged or sent to prison, can anybody help me out?

        You know, that’s quite a rap sheet for the ‘law and order’ president…

        • You completely ignore context. Your comments always just parrot whatever the media is talking about. It’s like you’re incapable of critical thinking.

        • miner49er, I hope you do realize that you are making a great argument for the “deep state” theory and the corrupt justice system. Taking your statement on face value, it seems obvious that one side has been targeted. We all know that the other side has numerous criminal violations that have yet to be punished.

          The reports were just declassified, give it time.

        • “The reports were just declassified, give it time.”

          We already found out that the FBI knew there was nothing to investigate before handing it off to Mueller. We also knew that Mueller’s team found out there was no collusion immediately, yet they continued so that the media could create a Russian Collusion panic and interfere with the 2018 mid term elections. Recall that the House was running on holding the “traitor” accountable. Now we know that Obama was briefed in 2016 that Hillary was planning on pushing the Russia Collusion Hoax in order to draw attention away from her misdeeds.

          Miner is another insincere democrat that isn’t for justice, but rather for by any means necessary victories, even if it includes fraudulent investigations, dishonest media fear mongering, and political prosecutions.

        • Whiner= 💯 Racist troll!
          He claims all white bikers with tats are racist against blacks.
          My chiropractor in St Pete FL around 20 years ago looks like this victim, rides a HD on nice days, has a black receptionist, and PT therapist. Hands down the best chiropractic group I’ve been treated by in my life.
          My current account looks similar to the victim also, rides a huge HD, and is married to a black woman. Awesome people, I have them to my home for BBQs several times each year.
          According to whiner, they don’t exist. I guess when you’re a racist scumbag, everyone you see who doesn’t look like you is a racist scumbag in your mind.
          Shut up you racist POS whiner!
          Trump/Pence 2020…… and beyond.

        • Some people have the nasty habit of judging books by their cover. It just so happens that racists do that as well.

        • Some trolls do their think on urban sidewalks/streets. Some like Miner49er do it on a keyboard from moms basement. Soro’s coven will bankroll either.

    • I’ve asked myself that same question. What could anyone hope to accomplish by getting in someone’s face and yelling? It’s nothing but an ego battle. I’m going to assert myself because I’m right and you’re wrong. It accomplishes nothing other than making people miserable. I’d say 99% of these people have no life. They’re trying to fill a void.

      • It was a perfect storm of stupidity. I’m surprised that only one person got shot.
        Make no mistake, I don’t agree with the actions of the victim, but his actions IN NO WAY absolve the shooter of his piss poor decision making skills. Escalation by grabbing others property is strong-arm robbery. This idiot might be looking at a Murder 1 during commission of a strongarm robbery. Should not have gone for that can of pepper spray. He’ll have plenty of time behind bars to think about that critical error during his handling of the situation.

  22. oh my…
    hes got that “holy shit…what if everything the progressive left taught me was wrong” look on his face
    >or it could be hes coming to the realization that as a heterosexual male the next 2 decades or more of his life are going to be the worst ever

  24. When protests turn violent and less-lethal is used vs. a firearm, it could be a very gray case for justified use of lethal force. He had better get a REALLY good attorney.

    • Here is a picture enhanced from a commenter who says the shooter is in the wrong. Even he has to admit reality.

      https://i.imgur.com/U8RerEU.jpg

      The man was armed and dangerous. He was assaulting people while carrying a handgun. Force continuum was in play. Would be self defense for the shooter (without a doubt) in a red state.

      • Nope. Shooter was the one who took the dispute from non deadly to the use deadly force. That means that his use of deadly force was probably not legally justified. Hence the charge of murder.

        • When a man hits you in the head, bear sprays you and he has a firearm on him… It’s reasonable to believe he is an immediate threat of committing grievous bodily harm or death. The man doesn’t have to wait for the bear spraying man to take out his handgun, the man was already physically attacked twice and sounded as if the attacker had already threatened to shoot a black man. Also, the people with the attacker had knives, batons and handguns.

          For self defense you must have a reasonable belief that there is an immediate or imminent threat of grievous bodily harm or death.

          Of course the shooter took it to deadly force because otherwise he would be the one shot. He figured force continuum was occurring. He was confronted, he was threatened, he was hit, he was sprayed with a chemical and the man was armed with a handgun. The last thing that attacker could have done was pull his handgun from his vest and shoot the guard.

        • And I read he wasn’t being charged for murder by the DA. He is under investigation on suspicion of murder.

        • “When a man hits you in the head,… ”
          The shooter got bitch slapped when he tried to grab the victims pepper spray. Shooter had NO authority to remove the pepper spray can from his victim.
          CC likes to leave this fact out.
          Shooter escalated the situation, then went to deadly force first.
          Go to jail!

        • @James Campbell

          Why did Lee touch the black man first? Why did Lee take out the spray over an argument about his son? Why did Lee and his son threaten the black man with a knife, baton, bear spray and handgun? Why did Lee leave the confrontation to confront an armed security contractor protecting a producer and camera man? Why was Lee menacing and ordering around the security using the threat of bear spray? Why did Lee strike the security in the head with his makeshift brass knuckles when the security tried to deflect the spray after being threatened by the armed Lee? Why did Lee shout “mother fucker” and steps back to spray the security when the security was drawing down on him? Why did Lee choose to spray the security after he presented his sidearm?

          The easy answer: Lee was the aggressor and thought he can menace a soft target up until he realized he screwed up, then under stress he did what came natural to him, he became violent.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xg9GLr36Ao&t=1m24s

        • As a civilian or security guard you are NOT allowed to escalate the situation in ANY way/shape/form, then go to the level of deadly force FIRST, then expect to have it deemed a “good” shoot.
          What the F’ can’t you understand about that FACT. This comes into play during the investigation and trial of EVERY defensive claimed shooting.
          If the shooter had NOT grabbed at the spray can (without authority no less), the shooting may not have happened. If the shooting HAD happened, it would likely be deemed a justifiable defensive shooting.
          That grab at the can make all the difference between good or bad.
          The shooter is ultimately responsible for HIS own actions, regardless of what the victim did during the escalation.
          Are you that stupid that you cannot comprehend a simple FACT that defines good shoot/bad shoot?
          Trump/Pence 2020

        • @James Campbell

          Lee approached the camera man with anger and was armed while doing so. Lee had a handgun visible and was holding bear spray. The news crew and security were filming the altercation from the beginning. Lee is the one who left the argument to go after the camera man for filming him. That’s when the security guard got between the camera man and the aggressive Lee, then security was assault by Lee for doing so. The streaming camera man can be seen on video, he was the other man who was arrested.

          There is this thing called menacing. It’s a law. A law that can be considered a violent felony offense. It’s a crime that disallows the person committing the menacing to claim self defense. The commission of this offense by another can allow a person to use deadly force in protection of oneself or another. Felony menacing is a crime that rises to the level that allows a citizen to perform a legal citizen’s arrest or detainment of the criminal.

          Lee was witnessed assaulting the black man first and his son was witnessed to have a knife and baton. Lee was also witnessed pulling out bear spray to menace the black man over the black man calling out Lee’s son for taking out a knife. It sounds as if Lee also threatened the man with the use of his handgun. This is felony menacing in action. Lee then committed another crime by approaching the news crew and threatening them.

          You cannot commit a violent felony in partnership with another then claim self defense when deadly force is used on you or your partner in crime. Same issue with the McCloskeys.

          Lee’s son got him killed. His son should have not threatened the use of a weapon or violence, which caused Lee to assault the black man first. Then Lee’s ego got the best of him. Lee tried to stop people from filming him acting a fool.

          https://www.shouselaw.com/co/defense/laws/menacing/

          For purposes of Colorado’s criminal menacing law, you use a deadly weapon when:

          You use or display a weapon (even if the victim does not see it),1 or
          You use or display any article that a reasonable person would believe is a deadly weapon.

          Examples of deadly weapons include (but are not limited to):

          Guns,
          Knives,
          Baseball bats,
          Metal tools (such as hammers),
          Chainsaws,
          Blow torches,
          Your fists (depending on the circumstances), and
          Any hidden object you represent to be a deadly weapon.

          #Law and Order

        • ” security guard got between the camera man and the aggressive Lee, then security was assault by Lee for doing so.”

          Wow CC, once AGAIN, you completely left out the FACT that the faux security guard committed an attempted strong arm robbery on his victim between those two items you listed. Are you autistic or something?
          He attempted to remove the victims personal property (strong-arm style), got bitch slapped, then killed his intended strongarm robbery victim.
          This is deadly use of a firearm during the commission of a robbery. Pure and simple.
          I sure hope you don’t teach at one of those “higher education” facilities near you.
          You don’t even understand the concept taught to children in kindergarten. Remember……YOU are responsible for YOUR actions? I do, and so does a Judge and JURY.
          No matter HOW HEATED the confrontation got, the shooter had NO right to attempt the removal of ANY property from his victim. This act is not just called strong arm robbery in this situation, but also is defined as escalation of the situation.
          Reality: When a person escalates a confrontation, and/or is in the process of committing a crime, and subsequently raises the level of force to a deadly level, killing his victim, that is textbook 1st degree murder.
          Shitbird is screwed!
          Trump/Pence 2020.

        • Chief, generally speaking you’re a moron, but here I think you’re right. I haven’t seen what dead guy did once off screen (you say he was assaulting the cameraman supposedly protected by the shooter) but it was only a moment before he returned while dead. My only question is where you think you saw a black guy, I haven’t found one in the whole mess. And kudos to the local blacks for that, people are trying to make scapegoats of them, good time to stay home.

        • @James Campbell

          You are delusional.

          There was numerous cameras out there recording the situation. Two far away on both ends, one from the news crew, one from a bicyclist and one from the police surveillance camera. They clearly show the people committing felonies were Lee and his son. The news photographer also caught the felony menacing and assault committed by Lee. The photos show Lee armed with a handgun as well.

          It’s not robbery to defend your client from physical assault by a man that was committing crimes on camera and was trying to stop your client from recording him committing additional crimes. Dollof did his job by stepping between the client and the attacker. Dollof was hit in the head with makeshift brass knuckles, then sprayed with a chemical for defending his client.

          By the way, I heard Dollof wasn’t licensed by the city of Denver, but he is licensed in the state of Colorado. I have to verify this… Then there is the fact he was operating as private security for a private person. Legalities aside, he was operating in defense of his client as security, he was not an Antifa member.

          You are sick in the mind if you believe Dollof was robbing a man who attacked a black man (and that man’s son was threatening the same black man with deadly weapons). You can clearly see Dollof stepping in front of his client who is recording Lee and Lee’s son, you can hear Lee threatening the client then shouting “mother fucker” at the security contractor after assaulting him the first time. Lee is on video and photographs assaulting people who did not assault him.

          Did the black guy try to rob Lee and his son? Why did Lee assault the black man? Why did Lee’s son go for his knife and baton? Why did Lee take out his bear spray? Why did Lee try to strong arm news reporters from filming him and his son? Why did Lee strike a man who defended the reporters from Lee’s aggression? Why did Lee insult then assault the same man he already hit in the head? Why did the hat maker knock the hat off the head of the obvious plain clothes security?

          #Law and Order
          #Fuck Around and Find Out

        • @LarryinTX

          The kid in the “Black Guns Matter” shirt is mixed. He is a light skin black male. There was a word white men used to describe such persons, I will not use it.

        • The still image at the top of this article shows the shooter reaching for the victims pepper spray while getting slapped.
          Textbook escalation on the shooters part.

        • @James Campbell

          Here is more evidence that shows Lee does not like people filming him. The video also compiles some sources for context. However, the video does not apply the law, thus comes to a different conclusion. In the video you see Lee is the aggressor and he immediately attacks the security contractor. The contractor was protecting his client and was also observing the BGM man being surrounded by armed people.

          No robbery. No interference. No arguing. No time to deescalate before attacked.

          Dolloff drew and fired a head shot within 2 seconds. He followed the rule of: don’t draw unless you are going to use it. He had enough information that the group was armed and threatening violence. You can argue whether it was lawful under Colorado’s laws in a court room, but in red states Dolloff was acting in good faith to defend himself and others from felonious assault and felony menacing from an armed group.

          Dolloff had a CCW issued in 2018. I heard he also was issued a license for security, it was not issued out of Denver city.

          Dolloff is clearly trained, seeing he landed a head shot under 2 seconds using a red dot. Most noobs can’t find the dot within 2 seconds to save their life. Dolloff cleared his shirt, presented from concealment and fired a single head shot within 2 seconds. Not surprising, he is a pro gun guy after all.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2OhrCoFlrM&t=2m0s

        • CC, ALWAYS willing to double down on dumb.
          Great analysis of this shooting BTW, the support you’ve seen here on TTAG really backs up how right you’ve been.
          So, according to you, we should see the shitbird walk on Wednesday, right? đŸ€Ł
          Trump/Pence 2020

        • Chief, why do you insist on filling in the blanks? That video doesn’t show what you say it shows.

          You allege “In the video you see Lee is the aggressor and he immediately attacks the security contractor. The contractor was protecting his client and was also observing the BGM man being surrounded by armed people.”

          There is literally nothing in that video that proves your point. It is 100% your narrative kicking in and connecting the dots.

          It may end up being true if it is seen on video besides the one you provided…but not at all on the one you provided.

          The only thing you can say with any certainty with that video is that Lee walked over towards the security and in short order a conflict occurred.

          Where this ends up I suspect is going to depend on what the city camera shows.

  25. Wow, the armchair quarterbacks supporting the shooter are in overdrive. I will wait until I see the vedio before I claim it was a righteous shoot. The fact that armed security shot a man with mace is questionable at best. He was not law enforcement and could expect their help before he was incapaciated.

    • Exactly. Heavily armed police were right there. Mace guy was dumb, but there was no justification for the shooting. People that cheer on a death are sick.

        • Well…there’s that.

          It could also be said that the guy with the mace was almost 100% unlikely to kill him or greatly injure him seeing how many witnesses and responders are nearby.

          If he was gonna kill ya, why start with a can of mace? Seems he may have been packing for real, why start non lethal?

  26. Looks like murder 1 to me. Dude on the left had stepped back when the guy on the right decided to draw and fire. Dude on the left had mace in his hand the entire time and only deployed it after the guy on the right drew his gun. Here’s the video, but in stills.

    https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1602470771994.jpg

  27. That set of pics appears to show someone pulling his gun and firing because he had been slapped in the face. That would not be conducive to a justifiable defensive use of deadly force in itself. But we need more info to see the whole picture.

    • Some people are saying that the man on the left slapped the shooter because the shooter and tried to reach in the other mans vest and take his gun. I can’t really tell if there is a gun in there, and there doesn’t seem to be enough context to me to conclusively say the man on the right is reaching for it.

      I would say, however, this conclusively proves the man on the left had backed off a few step, meaning he retreated before the man on the right drew his gun. Also, the man on the left had the mace in his hands the entire time. I believe he only deployed it after the man on the right started drawing.

      Unless more video/photos come out to give greater context to justify the shooting of a retreating man (highly unlikely) this is open/shut murder.

      • Stepping back to mace someone is not retreating. He started it, first of all. Second repositioning is not retreating — you learn that in the military.

        • In frames 6-9, his legs are bent as if in motion and the distance between the two people grows. He is moving backwards. He does not present his mace for use, he is simply holding onto it, until frame 10, which is after the shot.

          Typically, an aggressor would want to close the distance, especially with mace, which is a short-range weapon.

          Unless more context comes out, there is no reason to think he was doing anything other than disengaging. Unfortunately, the time period between frames 9 and 10 are massively important and also missing.

          Who started it is irrelevant as you don’t get to shoot people are are backing off.

          Lastly, literally every post you’ve ever made here (excepting Rittenhouse related content) has been wrong and your purpose here only seems to obfuscate reality. The only reason why you support Rittenhouse is because his position is clearly unassailable. I’m inclined to bet against you simply because you’re consistently wrong.

        • Watch the fence behind dead guy, he was stationary and had knocked the shooter backward. I still don’t think we need either of them, if shooter had immediately offed himself it would be perfect, no taxpayer involvement!.

      • CCs case of a justifiable defensive shooting looks thinner and thinner as time passes and people look at the details leading up to the firearm discharge.
        When the shitbird receives his formal indictment, I expect a Murder 1, with a side of attempted strong-arm robbery. That side makes it deadly use of a firearm during the commission of a robbery. No joy in Mudville, mighty shitbird has struck out!
        Bon Appetit Shitbird!
        Trump/Pence 2020. Come and vote for the competent leadership and SC Judges, stay for the ground-shaking TDS! 🍿

        • CC apparently gets his Soro shilling as a jailhouse shyster. He is WAY to wrapped up in defending whatever antifa/BLM/etc maggot of the day.

        • @neiowa

          Is Kyle Rittenhouse an Antifa member? I was the first person to lay out the case for self defense within 24 hours of the shooting. I watched it live and gathered evidence to protect Kyle from prosecution and defamation.

          I support the right to self defense. I support private security over the department of police. I support the right to keep and bear arms without permission slips from the police/government.

          In the words of the Republican party, “play stupid games, win stupid prizes.” The end.

        • Cheif, don’t flatter yourself.

          “Is Kyle Rittenhouse an Antifa member? I was the first person to lay out the case for self defense within 24 hours of the shooting. I watched it live and gathered evidence to protect Kyle from prosecution and defamation.”

          Yep the first, only you, no one else and no one sooner. Within 24hrs? That’s a Twitter lifetime. The case for self defense was almost instantaneous. A lot of us watched it that night.

  28. He shot the guy first, casing is already ejected from the gun when spray is deployed. And he’s no security guard, doesn’t have a license in Colorado.

    • And all those Patriot Muster Militia guys are not militiamen because they didn’t go through the legal process and weren’t ordered by the governor to be out there as a militia.

      Just watch the videos from the beginning instead of taking a still image and creating fake news.

      • You don’t have to be a member of a state-sanctioned militia to be a member of a militia. The 2nd Amendment recognizes the Right of the PEOPLE, not of the States or Federal Government, which are always regarded as separate and distinct entities in the Constitution.

        “Just watch the videos from the beginning instead of taking a still image and creating fake news.”

        Meaning: “Don’t observe the evidence that undermines my position. Don’t believe your lying eyes.”

        • I tell you to watch the videos from the beginning for the entire context yet you think I am saying something entirely different. You are the ones taking a single still image and creating a narrative. There is different videos for you to watch, many images record together, with audio too. But nooo…

  29. This site has been going downhill the past few years all because of the commentors here. The hypocrisy is sickening.

    • Perhaps less guns more politics is the reason. I would have thought TTAG would have mentioned the militia that got took out for an attempted kidnapping. Nothing about that?

    • Yeah, but that’s because most of the articles are now about political hot button issues and that’s what gets the clicks.

    • Thanks for the link.

      “If he was operating as a security guard, he was in violation of the law. Security guards are prohibited from carrying or using a firearm without getting an armed firearm endorsement for their license.”

        • “he would first need to have a license!”

          So you folks believe Doloff needed a license to carry a gun?

          Wait a minute, I thought under the Second Amendment everyone had the right to carry a gun anywhere, anytime, is that not your position?

          So only the tatted up, aggressive biker carrying the bear spray canister in the ready position is permitted to carry a gun, OK, got it.

        • Wow, miner, just wow. No wonder Trump gets a second term. If you’re the caliber of the opposition it’s a given deal.

          You cannot be this stupid and still able to breath for yourself. Can you?

  31. I am having difficulty reconciling the conflicting statements on this thread with the actual video sand photo montage that was referenced in the first thread on this shooting. Lee was involved in a verbal confrontation with the guy in the Black Guns Matter tee shirt. Thanks in part to the intervention of the older gentleman, that verbal confrontation didn’t escalate to a physical confrontation. Lee retreats from that verbal confrontation and exits to the right. Within only a couple of seconds we see Lee falling after he had been shot. There is simply not enough time for Lee to have taken any actions against Dolloff that would warrant Dolloff to seize his mace. Drawing his pistol in response to the slap after attempting to take the mace is extremely problematic. Dolloff had no legal right or justification to take the mace from Lee. Lee had every justification to use mild physical force against someone who was trying to take his property from him. (The legalities or illegalities of Dolloff’s actions would be more easily understood if Dolloff had been trying to take something innocuous such as a briefcase from someone)
    Given the timing of the gunshot occurring almost simultaneously with the mace being discharged, it would appear that Lee raised his mace canister only after Dolloff drew his gun and pointed it at Lee. We can question Lee’s tactics, but Lee had an absolute right to mace or even shoot Dolloff for drawing the gun and pointing it at him.

    Dolloff and Lee are both behaving like idiots. However; it is Dolloff who repeatedly escalated the conflict. Given his role as an alleged security guard for the news people, it simply would not have been appropriate for Dolloff to take the cannister from Lee when it was at waist level.

    I think the missing link here might be any actions or statements by Dolloff or the journalists that he was guarding that might have provoked Lee to exit the first confrontation and exit to the right. I suspect that this missing link will be revealed by the security camera video that has not been revealed. Given the political activism of the television station journalists, it seems probable that they and Dolloff did something to provoke Lee that we are unaware of.

    The bottom line is that Lee’s family are going to own a television station and the Pinkerton agency is going to try to prove that Dolloff is not their employee or at least isn’t on duty during this confrontation.

    • @ELMER FUDD
      Having watched a lot of footage from different sites from the day of this shooting, I have come to the exact same conclusions as yourself.
      I would like to add a little more information for further clarity.
      All these events took place on The Patriot’s side of the rally which had finished at this point and most attendees were leaving.
      The guy wearing the Black Guns Matter shirt had already been in numerous verbal altercations with other people during the day before the final one with Lee just prior to the shooting. He actually tried goading Lee into macing him several times and at one point even said “Go ahead and spray me and find out.” Lee refrained from doing so on every occasion.
      There’s also a little confusion surrounding the face slapping.
      Lee slapped Mathew’s face after Mathew had made an attempt to steal the spray can while Lee was holding it down by his side and then Mathew withdrew.
      From the still photos of the video immediately prior to the shooting, Lee appears to slap Mathew’s face again.The reason is unclear to me.
      As you suggest, Lee moves in a purposeful manner to the right,out of camera view, as if something has been said or gestured etc. towards him, which made him feel the need to go and challenge it.
      After the 2nd slap, he clearly backs away until there’s circa 6 feet between him and Mathew. Had he wished, he could have easily maced Mathew,with much greater effect when they were closer together, but didn’t.
      Also, the shooter must have already drawn his gun before the victim was aiming the mace at him, as no-one can have had drawn a firearm so quickly, aimed and fired, virtually simultaneously with the mace being released.
      Below is a statement from the police themselves.
      ” It’s going to be tough to show that pepper spray is a lethal weapon when almost every police department in the country places the use of pepper spray at one of the LOWEST levels on the use of force continuum… If it doesn’t cause serious injury or death, you aren’t justified in using lethal force to defend against it. And legally, in a court of law ,Self defense claims require a REASONABLE expectation of suffering serious injury or death, not a POSSIBILITY of that happening.”
      In my opinion, Mathew Dolloff will be found guilty of 1st Degree Murder and be sentenced to a long time behind bars.

      • I agree 💯% with these statements on the events leading up to the shooting. Elmer Fudd and Shameless are spot on.
        Look out now, CC and whiner should be along shortly to tell you two NOT to believe your own lying eyes!
        Trump/Pence 2020!

  32. Will this be the next “reason” for gun control….its like Tombstone out in the streets. Maybe it’s ok. Justice comes from the barrel of a gun, someone once said.

  33. Quite a difference between this shoot and the Kenosha debacle. Rittenhouse was alone and faced a group of fascists who would surely have killed or seriously crippled him in their whipped-up frenzy, Dolloff had a number of “friends” behind him who could’ve come to his aid. (If they’d put the camera down…)

    There is one point to make for future references, however-keep your hands to yourself and in your pockets until you see an actual deadly threat.

  34. Ohh man, if that commie killed a for real 1%er that’s a hornets nest he just kicked, the reprisals will be epic

    • Yup, was just reading that one. If he was truly an employee of the Pinkerton agency and of the TV news station, those two companies are in for one hell of a massive lawsuit. There will be lawyers parachuting into the dead guy’s family’s back yard begging to represent them.

      Probably are already.

      • Absolutely! I have to say the image of lawyers parachuting into the victims family’s backyard made me laugh out loud so that I had to explain it to my wife who is still chuckling. Thanks for our laughs! Laughter is hard to come by these days…

  36. OMG the hypocrisy in the comments sections is unnerving and you can see the political bias. Same folks who say that Kyle Rittenhouse was justified in his shootings and praise him as a hero say Dolloff was not justified in this shooting. I think neither was justified, but Rittenhouse less so than Dolloff. At least there was an actual threat to Dolloff. In the picture the pepper-spray was shot first. You can clearly see that.

    • Huh? Why don’t you think that Rittenhouse was being threatened with death or great bodily injury? The second time, in particular – he was running away, was caught and knocked down by the second victim, and the third, surviving, victim, pointed a gun at him.

      • Skateboard to the head vs. pepper spray. Tell me how you do not think Rittenhouse was justified. Can I wallop you in the head with a skateboard?

        • What about the black man that tried to kick/stomp Kyle? He was shot at.

          What about the bald guy that was chasing Kyle?

    • Actually Stir Fried, the bias is all yours. Kyle was running away from the threats including a violent mob of people shouting out to cause him harm. Did Dolloff retreat like Kyle to the police?

      I know Pandas are slow, dumb animals, but you are really giving them a bad name.

    • ANOTHER synopsis of the events leading up to the shooting that TOTALLY blows CCs BS narrative out of the water.
      How about a citation for where you read the victim came to that event to start trouble???
      Did you write it down yourself, then read it CC?
      Trump/Pence 2020

  39. Dibs on shitbirds ammo stash!
    He won’t be allowed to have it where he’s headed. đŸ€Ș

    • https://i2.wp.com/www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/RALLY_862.jpg

      There is the proof that Lee was the aggressor. The audio also proves Lee was going after the reporters specially. The photos, audio and video evidence proves Lee was assaulting and battering people exercising their 1st Amendment.

      As you can see Lee also put on rings on both his hands to work as brass knuckles, which is considered a weapon (even a deadly weapon). Possession of a brass knuckle is a class 1 misdemeanor under Colorado law.

      Lee’s son is also wearing gloves with protection for his knuckles. He is also seen armed with a baton (a deadly weapon) and a knife (a deadly weapon).

      Lee and his son went there ready to fight and kill. The organizer of Patriot Muster said the event wasn’t for such conduct. Lee (and his son) menaced, assaulted and battered while concealing their identities. They were not there for a peaceful get together with all Americans.

      https://i1.wp.com/www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/RALLY_860.jpg

      Lee was trying to hide his identity just like his son was. He must have been afraid of being “canceled” for arguing with a black male and threatening him (while along side his son, who did the same).

      It’s an arguable case of self defense. A smart lawyer can get him off using the law and the physical evidence. Arguing a fairy tale will get him charged and possibly convicted.

      I would not convict the professional security contractor just like I would not convict Kyle Rittenhouse. They were doing their duties to protect what/who they had the right to protect. Cops can do the same without question.

      • Also, in some places, it’s a felony to conceal your identity like that or while committing a crime.

      • Chief Guevara’s turd, why do you continue to hang out here and keep posting complete bullshit??? No one here believes a word you say, you’re simply wasting your time. Just go away already and save us from having to skip over every comment you post.

        • I use evidence/proof and the letter of the law. You use lies from grifters and paranoid schizophrenics.

          I am teaching you guys what self defense looks like and what not to do. You guys own guns but don’t understand what the laws are in this country. Law and order isn’t possible if you don’t follow the rules and refuse to learn them.

          Dolloff has a case for self defense. The judge sealed the case files to hide the investigation. Then the DA asked for an extension from Wednesday to Monday to decide if he will charge. If it was a clear cut 1st degree murder charge they should have charged him by now and continued collecting evidence for a conviction. It’s possible the delay in bringing charges is for the DA to present lesser charges or to clear Dolloff in lengthy detail. Even if Dolloff didn’t have a Denver specific license to operate in the city limits, that’s only 1 year in prison max.

          Lee and his son were armed. They committed felonies and misdemeanors before Lee attacked a group of bystanders. Lee had a few mags and a handgun on him while battering media with in tent to “fuck them up” until they leave. Lee has zero power to violate an American’s right to the first amendment using physical force and weaponry.

          Trump supporters have to learn this country has a Bill of Rights for everyone and an armed society is supposed to be a respectful one. There is a lot of Democrats in the military, police and contracting business. So get over it!

  41. Again the problem remains. The left do whatever they like and always get away Scot free. This is not law and order without justice!!! Lying Liberal news Hires a terrorist to attack Trump supporters. Not prosecuted??? This is bullschift !!! NBC, ABC, CBS and CNN would murder any Patriot and not think twice about it. Biden cannot obviously recall information, nor walk or talk or even think without a wire or a teleprompter. Brainwashed left still believes Biden is great and he’s the man. People THINK! Your interface that mounts to your snowflake brain adapter needs to be disconnected from your cable box.

  42. I would like to make a public apology to chief censor. I have accused him of being a paid shill for the left. After reading every comment he has made here it becomes obvious I was wrong.

    He is very obviously mentally ill and very lonely.

    • Don’t ask a liberal about prison life, you won’t find very many liberal politicians in the joint.

      You would do much better to ask Donald Trump‘s campaign manager, Paul Manafort, or his assistant campaign manager, Rick gates.

      If you get no answer, perhaps you could talk to Donald Trump’s long time personal attorney and whore hush money cash bag-man.

      Or you might speak with Donald Trump’s national security advisor, disgraced General Michael Flynn.

      For a more in-depth review, you might speak with republican speaker of the house Dennis Hastert, based on his sexual proclivities I’d say he’s enjoying whatever time he spends rocking on the old cell Block.

      But I wouldn’t bother asking Barack Hussein Obama, Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden, they’ve never seen the inside of a courtroom under indictment, much less in prison.

      • Because no democrat has ever done wrong or gone to jail. You weasel fuck.

        Let’s start with FDR. One of your sides icons. He rounded up American citizens based solely on race and put them in concentration camps. He never spent a day in jail either.

        But not to worry. A lot of these folks will be in prison very soon.

        • Still waiting on Trump to arrest Hillary and Obama at the very least. Also the FBI director and agents. It’s been 4 years.

  44. This is just getting sweeter and sweeter for the case against Ch 9 news.
    Not only did they hire the radical left shitbird killer, knowing FULL WELL what he was about. They ALSO hired the “spray me MFer” agitator, then ACTUALLY used press credentials to get him into the event he was paid to stir up! No Bueno!
    Seems a few Ch 9 employees may end up being formally charged as co-conspirators in this 1st degree murder of a Patriot and Trump voter.🍿 Talk about voter supression.
    Ch9 news top brass be all like 😭 today.
    Trump/Pence 2020.
    Vote this way if you don’t want to be KILLED by the lamestream media outlets. Just because you respect law and order.

    • Well, well, well… The case for self defense is looking stronger with every piece of evidence released.

      A criminal doing violent things and trying to cover it up. What a patriot — trying to stop the 1st Amendment of those Democrats. Even his son is caught taking out a deadly weapon to use on the black man for yelling at his father.

      Famous last words, “Get the cameras out of here or I am going to fuck you up!”

      Sounds like and looks like a rage filled violent man seeking to harm innocent people and doing so well armed.

      By the way, the organizer for the event was banned from Instagram and Facebook for posting lies about the shooting and for telling people how to bring their guns to the event he claims was for peace and love.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17c2q9rpyhc

      • Chief Cuck,
        Do yourself a favor and stop wasting your time.

        It’s been shown that black guns matter dude was a paid agitator who was brought inside the secure patriot muster area by the news producer using his press credentials. The black guns matter agitator is on camera prior to the shooting trying to elicit a violent response from patriot muster attendees so the news producer could catch trump supporters losing it, this man continued even after the rally was over and people were going home. It did not work on anyone that day, including Lee. Dolloff is fucked and will fry, but here’s to hoping that the news station is sued into oblivion and the producer, along with anyone else who is complicit, at least loses their job and is blacklisted from working in the media industry in the future.

  45. Why don’t these articles write “aggressor/defender actions in the correct sequence when they are clearly known and phote documented? It makes a major difference in the presented information. It should have been reported here as: Slapped, Pistol drawn, chem sprayer then Shot fired. Very simple and the Webb had the pic and vids avail to anyone who looked. Sure as hell changes the narrative this article pushed.

    You know the alledged contracted security guard was not certifed (that means legally unqualified and unlicensed). Whose screwup was that? This means the person filling the “Guard Position” should not have been there! You will also notice the “News Staff” he is supposed to protect aren’t in the pictures “being protected”.

  46. The shitbird killer went “hands-on” first too.
    Enjoy cuddling with your cellmate shitbird!

  47. Since 2 guns were found it is reasonable to realize that the guy spraying the mace may have been reaching for his gun or threatening to go for his gun while using the pepper spray to render the guard defenseless.

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