“People who manufacture weapons or invest in weapons industries are hypocrites if they call themselves Christian, Pope Francis said on Sunday,” according to jpost.com. “Francis issued his toughest condemnation to date of the weapons industry at a rally of thousands of young people at the end of the first day of his trip to the Italian city of Turin.” By all accounts, the Pontiff’s speech was a long rambling affair that condemned the people who create the tools that some men use to defend innocent life in passing. Warning his audience to trust God rather than man, he digressed as follows . . .
“It makes me think of … people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons. That leads to a bit a distrust, doesn’t it?” he said to applause.
He also criticized those who invest in weapons industries, saying “duplicity is the currency of today … they say one thing and do another.”
Not that the Catholic Church could ever be accused of the same thing . . . [h/t SS, DrVino]
Don’t worry, I don’t.
I guess that makes the pope a hypocrite and one of the biggest at that. Who else is protected by a small army (110 people) with guns. Seems the pope is well invested in them.
Does that mean all the engineers and machinists at Sig are not Christian? Simply because they make guns that protect the pope and many others?
http://www.guns.com/2014/04/13/guns-swiss-guard/
I know – it sucks when you are forced to wear a star on your shoulder against your choosing, some guys with machine guns have arrived to take you to a local campsite where you will be worked until you stare to death and die. After you die they will pull all the gold filling out of your teeth. Would have been nice if you could have at least provided some resistance and had some tools to defend yourself. Band together with those like you and resist.
Should we distrust the pope because he is using guns? He has a small army of 110 people ready to use guns against attackers.
Duplicity? Like the Pope is demonstrating above?
Why didn’t Benito Mussolini bomb them? Why did the catholic people of Italy elect Mussolini only to join as an ally to the Nazi party? Why didn’t the pope at the time call for the resignation of Mussolini?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/05/how-the-catholic-church-got-in-bed-with-mussolini.html
Why aren’t these questions being asked? The more the pope talks the more ridiculous he sounds.
Despite what the Pope may think, he doesn’t get to decide who is and in not a Christian.
Damn straight. If this jackass knew the Bible a little better, he’d know that disciples near Jesus had swords – the ancient equivalent of a battlefield weapon. Today, that’d be an AR or AK. That logic is lost to this progressive pope. Altough I wouldn’t accuse the Catholic Church of being logical or particularly moral.
I believe that you’re referring to Luke 22:36, in which Jesus commands any of his disciples who lacks a sword to sell his cloak and buy one. Of course, leftists probably interpret that verse as they interpret the Second Amendment, i.e., to mean everything but what it actually says.
Yup, iirc, it was in preparation to travel the road to Damascus which was notoriously filled with thieves and murderers.
Of note, he’s completely contradicting Pope John Paull II’s statement that self defense isn’t just a right, but a duty. (http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1088)
That’s true pope is not a Cristian he’s a child molester he don’t read the bible he watch p**** movie and play with his peepee
Taking Scripture regarding swords in context:
The swords represent the two types of authority of the Church:
1. the spiritual (teaching) authority of the Magisterium
2. the temporal authority of the Church
He does get to decide who is and is not officially Catholic, through excommunication. But is he going to excommunicate the workers at Sig, Glock, & HK who make the guns his Swiss guards use to defend him?
Exactly!
If guns “r so eeevil!” and “all you need is God” then I think he should lead by example. Remove ALL firearms/weapons held by the Vatican and disband the Swiss guard. After all God will protect them right? Telling others that guns r bad mkay and having your own private army seems just a tiny bit hypocritical.
On an unrelated note: how long would it take IS or some of their nutty buddies to storm the Vatican and send the Pope to answer for himself? Further betting will be available on whether God personally steps up and sends Heyseuss with the blessed crusading M16 to judge the turrerorists and save the pope’s wrinkly behind.
I thought they used pikes. 🙂
Those are obviously ceremonial, they were made obsolete by the arquebus.
They use a pole arm known as the Halberd. Swords (like the Katana and proper Longsword…which was the same weight but nearly a foot longer) were mere side arms compared to a pole arm. Pikes were super long battlefield tools used in formation.
If you are a man and claim that you can judge people as God, I’d suggest that you are something worse than a hypocrite.
Also, if you spend much time studying the Bible for yourself, you (as many historical Christians before) will likely put very little stock in the opinion of the Catholic Popes.
Please tell us how reading the Bible, a Catholic book will disprove the Catholic Church.
I assume he followed this pronouncement with an order to remove all armed guards from the Vatican and his entourage, right?
RIGHT????
My chuckle for the day.
See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard#Modern_arms
It’s odd, because Wikipedia specifically says that members of the Swiss Guard must be Christian. And their weapons suppliers are a who’s who of the top world’s top arms producers. Does the Pope’s denunciation of weapons manufacturers not apply to the ones who supply his own armed guards, or is he yet another hypocrite?
Well, that’s because while god made all men equal, some are just “more” equal, himself included, than others. I mean, you or I are great and all, but he’s just more important than us little people /sarc
I thought Sam colt made all equal, not god?
Religion and violence? Nooooo.
Does it also mean the Swiss Guard can’t be Christian? Is he guarded by heathens?
Personally, I would rather have Varangians than Swiss Guard, but that me.
Varangians
Boy, had to look that one up!
Something something if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one? Not to mention the Islamic State savages executing Christians for the crime of not being Muslim.
Hopefully he’ll disarm all of Vatican city, so when the Islamic extremists burn down his city, decapitate him, and skull f*ck his severed head, they’ll send him to that god he claims to know so well.
Well that escalated quickly…
Yup, there’s something else going on here when one sees the absolutely visceral hatred and loathing for the Catholic Church and/or Christianity, and mentioning the Pope or the Church here and in lots of other online blogs, brings out the seeping poison from the woodwork.
We’re supposed to pray for people with a sickness like this, though, and I try.
While also remembering that the vast, vast majority of Catholic clergy are not “kid-rapers” and weren’t around to authorize the Inquisition and the Crusades.
What’s kind of strange, though, is how some of the people here have nary a good word to say about the MSM press and how they routinely lie about us and our firearms and take statements out of context and misquote us, but when it’s done with the Pope they evidently fall for it, hook, line and sinker. In between reading Jack Chick comic books, probably.
Dave, I have nothing against most religious people of any faith, but the mere concept of the pope, along with his blatant hypocrisy, disgusts me. Also, I despise those who say shit like ” We’re supposed to pray for people with a sickness like this, though, and I try”, like it’s your burden to have to look down on the “lesser people”, and hope we change our minds to your way of thinking. It’s a thinly veiled excuse to make your sense of superiority seem legitimate. You’re no more “sick” than the rest of us, prick.
so when the Islamic extremists burn down his city,
Please first remove the artwork, of which the tourists only get to see the tip of the iceberg, to safety.
I do, and that’s ridiculous. Don’t they check these guys out before they vote them in? It’s like they were choosing from a pool of applicants the DNC of Berkeley, CA put up instead of bishops or cardinals.
That’s what happens when you let a heretic sit on the throne of St. Peter. I think somebody needs to nail another message to his front door.
What is this message you are referring to? Inquiring minds…
+1
Protestant reformation way back when. German clergyman Martin Luther (not Martin Luther King Jr.). If I recall properly, he nailed the “99 theses” to a church door (don’t think it was at the Vatican though) stating the problems with the Catholic Church and sparked Protestant Reformation.
Also, as a Protestant Christian myself, I don’t really care what the Pope says.
I am pretty sure it was the 95 theses and not 99
Haha! Bravo.
Good thing, then, that the Pope doesn’t get to decide who is and who is not a Christian.
Speaking of duplicity and hypocrisy: has the Pope disarmed the Swiss Guard yet? Has the Pope sworn off armed defense when he goes around in his Pope-mobile? Oh, and has the Pope divested the Catholic Church of the largesse that is Vatican City, while decrying the greed of capitalism and of every person who exercises the God-given right to pursuit of happiness?
No? Well then: tend to your own house first, Francis.
Take up your sword, period.
Is it REALLY necessary to end this article with a jab against Catholics?
SOP for the most part, anytime the Pope opens his mouth; he’s a nice guy and very saintly and so forth but he has zero political acumen and sounds off about all kinds of stuff he shouldn’t. Besides that, he is routinely quoted out of context and then those remarks are interpreted by neo-Marxists in the media and splashed all over the net.
Naturally this is a great opportunity for anti-Catholic bigots to bash away at the Church and its over a billion faithful.
Watch: there will be a lot more of this on this board shortly. Where we already have God Himself as a mass murderer, etc., etc. It’s often like reading a Jack Chick comic book.
There are at best guess somewhere over 1.2 billion professed Christians on Earth today. Some percentage of those are Catholic, but I hardly think it’s a whole billion.
Meanwhile, there are between 1.2 and 1.5 billion Muslims.
So should we forego our First Amendment protections and not bash away at crazy Muslims just because there are a billion of them? The quantity of people who believe or profess something that is not accurate does not change the fact that something is not accurate.
People who believe that the Catholic Pope is infallible just by reason of his having been chosen to be Pope fail to recognize that he was chosen for that position by a group of Bishops who are in the end just fallible men themselves, many with their own personal agendas.
Somewhat less than 1 out of 5 people in the world today are Christians. A smaller percentage than that are Catholics. I fail to see how that gives them some superiority over the rest of us any more than 20% of the world being Muslim makes them an automatic authority on anything except jihad and terrorism.
Sorry, but it’s Roman Catholics of which there are over a billion, and the total of Christians which includes them is, of course, greater.
Comparing that one Church to the billion-plus muslims, themselves split along one major fault line between Sunni and Shiite, not to mention other sects and cults, is faulty. And it’s not Roman Catholics shooting people in mosques, beheading unarmed muslim prisoners and civilians, or lighting off suicide bombs on school buses.
And the Holy Father’s infallibility only applies when he makes certain utterances of the faith ex cathedra, not when he’s speaking carelessly and off the cuff to nooz reporters or crowds.
No one said anything at all about Catholics being superior to anyone else; far from it. But we don’t do jihad or massacre innocents (yeah, yeah, I know all about the Inquisition and the Crusades, 500-1,000 years ago). That sort of thing is not done by liberal democracies, so-called, anymore, or by an all-powerful medieval church; someone needs to clue the muslims in on the modern world.
And others could stand a good reading of just exactly what the Catholic Church is and believes and what the Pope does before rattling off all kinds of stuff generated by an MSM and academia that loathe Christians, let alone Roman Catholics. Others maybe ought to give up the Jack Chick comic books, too.
The problem with Catholicism has never been the faith. It has always been the church leadership. When you give someone who claims to be a man of god a taste of unbridled secular power, he tends to go a bit crazy. You’d think that the Church would have learned to stay out of secular matters the last time somebody nailed the message to their front door.
That message nailed to the door state the Pope had no spiritual authority. I read it.
Trust in God rather than man? I’m not a religious man, but even if I were I wouldn’t count of God or man to stop an armed home invader. Man won’t be there when it goes down, and if there is a God I’m pretty sure he has better things to do than watch my home like the ADT dude.
He was obviously not paying much attention to the Charleston AME church, and I expect they were praying as loud and hard as they could.
Does that mean god wanted them dead? I mean, if religious folks believe that anything and everything that happens is god’s will, then logically the answer would be yes, wouldn’t it?
It’s not that simple. The theology of trying to discern God’s Will from what occurs on earth – especially at the hands of man’s Free Will – is not a light, glib topic.
The nearest I can tell, we never really KNOW what God’s Will truly is/was in a certain circumstance. We seek revelation of His Will, but it is one of those things man simply cannot know.
It’s all part of that “humbling of self” that lies at the center of every single religion the planet has ever known …
On a practical level it’s pretty clear to me at least. As the old saying goes: “God helps those who help themselves.”
It is infinitely easier to express a knee-jerk emotional reaction than to explore the studies and analyze the results…
Where in the bible does it say it is a sin to own guns? This is why am a protestant Christian and not a Catholic because the Pope thinks he is more important than he actually is
He’s a pretty important guy, but he does not live in the real world. He says what spiritual leaders are supposed to say, besides he is concerned with your soul not your body. Guns are for preserving the body.
But in the Catholic church to commit suicide is a mortal sin – unforgivable.
To stand in the face of evil prepared to accept your fate when you could easily have armed and defended yourself, how is that not suicide?
I would not call a peaceful martyr’s death a suicide. Anyone who makes the conscious decision not to arm themselves is free to do so as they please. I however, enjoy my life and will attempt to preserve it through any means at hand, firearm or otherwise. Just to be clear, I do not agree with the Pope’s remarks. I say “Be fruitful and multiply, and protect that which you help make, then practice multiplying as much as you want, in as many positions as you want, because it is fun.”
The Pope is an important guy to some Catholics. Not so much to all the other faiths in the World.
I am not a Catholic so I ask is there a way to remove a pope besides killing him, this pope has been for all his charity at total odds with the teaching of Christ and been perfectly willing to kneel to the mob.
And then the Pope said, “We will deny and cover up all the child molestation done by our clergy in order to protect the children.” The Pope comes from an anti-gun Latin American culture, so his views on guns is no surprise.”
>> And then the Pope said, “We will deny and cover up all the child molestation done by our clergy in order to protect the children.”
You are aware that Francis has done more than the last three Popes put together to actually do something about pedophiles in the clergy, right?
No, no, no…he sits on his golden throne wearing a dress and raking in trillions while the rest of the world starves and has made it a condition that for priests to be ordained they have to rape children. And it’s God’s will that all the evil and terrible things happen in the world and mankind has zero responsibility for any of it and is a mere pawn in His sadistic games, while organized religions rake in trillions from gullible fools and dolts who believe in weird fairy tales… Etc., etc.
Only atheists and Protestants know the Truth.
And Jack Chick, of course.
Just FYI, I am an atheist. I don’t see that as a valid reason to perpetrate lies about the Pope, though. There are plenty of issues on which I disagree with him and the Catholic doctrine, or even find it outright ridiculous (like, say, contraception). And I don’t think that the Church is doing enough to combat pedophile priests. But it’s certainly doing a lot more, and righting many past wrongs, under this Pope, and that has to be acknowledged as part of a civil discourse.
Agreed, thank you; a voice of calm and reason; I was beginning to despair of such amidst all the hate, poison and vitriol, worse than that directed previously and currently against muslims and their religion.
I’m a traditionalist Roman Catholic convert from the Anglicans, and if it were up to me, I’d kick the chair out from under actual pedophile clergy and the higher-ups who enable/d them. We ordinary parishioners have been taking it in the neck for years now over this issue, and many of us are as angry if not more so, than some non-Catholics.
And I have to admit I liked the previous two popes a lot better.
Thank god I’m not Catholic!
I haven’t exactly been a regular church-goer as of late, but this comment along with the Pope infusing himself into the Global Warming debate is making me consider a long-term hiatus from Church attendance.
You do realize that the Pope only holds sway over the Catholic Church, right?
There are a number of people who carry in the church I attend.
I’m Catholic and will remain Catholic. Francis is the pope and also a man. Like other men, he can be wrong.
I wonder what he’d have to say to the priests in my area who carry. Or parishioners in Mexico and South America who’s priests are routinely murdered.
+1
Exactly.
And I bet he was misquoted or quoted out of context again anyway.
Anti-Catholic bigots love it.
He’d say “,,,it’s god’s will,,,,works in mysterious ways” would be my guess
That Statement along with the Vat-can transferring pedophiles to other Parrishes to continue their perversion is all one needs to dismiss any opinion the pope has.
Another hypocrite surrounded by armed guards but bashing on firearms. But you know I think he and Obama have a point. Everyone in the world just needs to hire armed guards to protect us, then we won’t need guns right??
Matthew 10:34 – “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.”
Methinks our Pope must read his scriptures more intently.
He said “weapons” , “weapons industry”, not sword/bow and arrow/sling shot dudes.
‘Warning his audience to trust God rather than man…’
That’s not the tune he’s singing about anthropogenic global warming.
“He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” – Luke 22:36 quoting Jesus Christ….
Dear Pope What’sHisHead,
Blow me, then go shit in the woods.
Sincerely,
The guys who arm the guys who keep the Commies from killing you in your sleep.
“Sincerely,
The guys who arm the guys who keep the Commies from killing you in your sleep.”
Like the US government arming the Mujahideen! I can’t quite remember, but I think that worked out well in the end, right? Universal arms proliferation is not a good thing and it’s pretty clear to me that that is what the pope is talking about. I don’t think that was targeted so much about private ownership of firearms, even if it’s many of the same companies supplying the goods.
Luke 22:36 – Then he said to them; “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.”
Proverbs 25:26 – “Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked.”
Luke 11:21 – “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe.”
People like Pope Francis are why I don’t go to church anymore. Pompous bastard.
In the Luke 22;36 quote,”Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” Jesus knew he would be convicted as a criminal and executed, and that his followers would go from being the followers of an eccentric rabbi to being fugitives from both Roman and Jewish law. He was telling them that having a purse with money and bag to carry their possessions in was important so that they could remain mobile. His “sell your cloak and buy a sword” was telling them that having a weapon to defend themselves was more important than having a cloak.
This guy was doing okay, but as of late he has went bananas. Is the Pope off his medications? It appears he believes, quite wrongly so, the only thing a firearm does is be obtained by criminals, and of those criminals ones who would run out and kill a person.
And to say you are not a Christian then? What a significant blunder! If you are Catholic I’d be reconsidering your faith or maybe your Pope because something is seriously unhinged.
Send all Vatican personnel to Islamic State and see if their theory works out.
And neither can the pope. His “religion” (Catholicism) is an offshoot of the true Christianity. Also in the bible we are allowed to defend ourselves.
Uh, small point; it’s the reverse. The other Christian denominations are offshoots of the Roman Catholic Church, starting with the Great Schism between the Latins and the Eastern Orthodox a thousand years ago. Then there was the Reformation, and following that, a vast slew of various Protestant Christian denominations, sects, and cults. Could have been predicted. It’s all in the history books.
And it’s the Catholic Church, ex ecclesia, non salus.
Or you could say the Catholics were a split off the Orthodox main Church. Personally I consider it neither way, there was the early church, and it split in two.
Protestants are more than happy to say that they broke away from the Catholic Church (because they consider it to have become corrupted). In their view, they broke away from the Big Church, to return to what the Big Church should have been but wasn’t
Knowing this, I was surprised (a bit) when I discovered the Eastern Orthodox Church thinks Rome broke away from them. Then I thought about it and realized there was no rationale for either the RC or EO churches to think they broke away from the other part, since they broke over a gradually widening doctrinal and cultural gap.
*Warning, ecclesiastical history nerd*
The Great Schism of 1054 was hardly the first separation. The Nestorians, Monophysites, and Monothelites (and probably more that I can’t remember) left first. The Pope of Rome usually agreed with the Patriarch of Constantinople and supported the “orthodox” belief. The relations between the two senior Patriarchates started souring about the time the Popes became “Barbarian” (i. e., Frankish or Lombard) rather than “Roman” in origin.
The separation between Europe and the the four more Eastern Patriarchates is, in my mind, more commonly known, because few people are affected by, or come in contact with, among others, the so-called “Oriental Orthodox” and the “Church of the East”.
Man, when you said “ecclesiastical history nerd”, you weren’t kidding.
To remind, the original system was the Pentarchy – five patriarchates, one of which was Rome. When the East-West Schism happened, one side of the schism was Rome, and the other side was the other four patriarchates. With that in mind, it always made sense to me to treat that situation as Rome leaving, rather than the other way around.
There are some other interesting aspects of this. For example, Catholics consider Orthodox to be mere schismatics (i.e. not wrong in matters of doctrine, but wrong in not accepting the Catholic hierarchy). On the other hand, Orthodox consider Catholics to be heretics (i.e. wrong in matters of doctrine). This is because Orthodox have retained the original non-Filioque symbol of faith: “believe in …the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, from the Father proceeding”; while Catholics have changed it to read “from the Father and the Son proceeding” – to Orthodox that addition was heretical.
The Coptic Church came first. There were a couple of centuries of Christians being fed to lions and whatnot until Constantine legalized the religion, then officially adopted Christianity as the State Religion of the Empire. Along the way, it got saddled with a lot of converted pagan rituals and holidays that weren’t used or celebrated in the early church. God replaced Zeus as the head of the Roman Pantheon, the Saints replaced the various lesser gods and the religion went on about it’s merry way, adopting all sorts of things and traditions that aren’t anywhere in the Bible. Like having a High Priest, I mean Pope, for instance. Mind you, I don’t mind the adopted pagan rituals. Christmas, for example, allows us to celebrate Christ’s birth by sticking a Yule Tree in our homes that was originally to celebrate Odin’s annual Wild Hunt in Midgaurd.
The first church started with the disciples of Christ. The Catholics spun off of those churches.
Davidx, what’s your issue with Jack Chick again? And ever hear of a fella named John the Baptist? He wasn’t Catholic was he? And Catholics always seem to forget the whole No mediator between God and Man but God’s sin Jesus. Catholics are today’s pharisees.
And I heard that the Vatican bank is the major shareholder of Beretta? Did some googling on that and there is only one article about it alongside a couple of other threads about it.
Not 100% sure if it is true or not.
Source:
https://usahitman.com/vbmsipb/
There’s a ton of articles about it: https://www.google.com/search?q=Vatican+bank+is+the+major+shareholder+of+Beretta&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Read about the Nazi / Fascist era Popes. (Pius XI & XII)
Sorry, pope, but your judgement on this is as jacked up as your judgement on the climate. In other words, way out of whack. What a sorry excuse for a pope.
Yep. Seems like a pretty smart, strong Christian once said something along the lines of “We are saved through Grace, not by works.”
Interpretation to this issue: Here I thought what made a Christian was profession of faith in Christ….not what job/vocation you did for a living.
Theologically, morally and sociologically, I think the pope is wrong as wrong can be on this.
I assume the pope will be getting rid of his court gesture dressed special operations elite soldiers guarding his palace if he is so AGINST weapons.
Seems ironic the pope calls people hypocrites and we shoukd trust in God and beat our swords into plowshares while he hides behind his bullet proof glass box.. Or is it just me?
Lead your flock by example much?
Pope ,how about some of the catholic priests and young men?
Luckily for people freaking out about this he wasn’t speaking from a position of formal authority. Unless he releases a Papal Bull condemning the production and possession of arms he is essentially stating his private opinion.
Remember even if he is Pope he still is bound by Church doctrine and for those who are interested if you actually read the Catechism of the Catholic Church the only group explicitly named in the regulation of arms are governments. Private ownership of arms is considered a prudential issue and the Church has no official stance on it other than as long as its done in a responsible manner and for the greater good it is acceptable.
The Pope, giving him the benefit of the doubt, misspoke and made it appear that his personal opinion is Church doctrine. It is in fact not.
So chill people the Pope made a bad statement which is his opinion not doctrine. For those interested look up the Catechism and read paragraphs 2302 to 2317 and you will see that private ownership of arms is never mentioned.
So I can’t stress this enough this is his opinion not doctrine.
His private opinion reveals him to be bereft of logic and unable to think five minutes down the road. Must be because he came from a South American country.
Not being bound by Catholic doctrines, I don’t care much about the distinction between church doctrine and the Pope’s personal opinion. He’s the leader of one of the largest and wealthiest organizations on Earth, and in a very powerful position. As such, his personal opinion is concerning to me, if that opinion is that I should be stripped of my rights.
Not sure that mackerel snappers that oppose freedom and liberty can call themselves Christians either. Just saying.
And not all atheists or anti-Catholic bigots support freedom and liberty, either.
Just gonna point out, the Bible never mentioned a pope….. Or purgatory, or Purchasing indulgences, or praying to Mary who was a virgin until sometime after Jesus was born… after all Jesus had brothers…., Or praying to saints etc.
The “Catholic” Church made the Bible, it is not a complete description of Christianity in Apostolic times. Some of the practices you mention could very possibly predate Nicea I.
It also doesn’t ever mention Jesus to be God (it only uses the expression “Son of God”, which isn’t quite the same thing).
Luke 6:37 NIV
[37] “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
A good rule of thumb is not to trust the media when it reports on the Pope. Here is a Vatican Radio story on the same speech:
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2015/06/15/pope_oil_and_weapons_weigh_more__than_human_lives_/1151621
Not much here on Smith & Wesson or American gun owners. In fact there’s nothing there on either subject. From the story, it seems the Pope’s words were referring to powers who arm both sides in the Middle East and the international arms trade.
Too many media outlets just want to make people angry and stir controversy, and damn the facts and damn the truth. I’d wait to see the whole text of the speech before jumping to conclusions.
Amen to that and even if he against private ownership of arms he can only profess his personal opinion on the issue and can not issue a statement of authority on the issue as it is not mentioned in the Catechism or explicitly laid out in the Bible so its a prudential issue that is left up to the individual as long as it does not lead to some egregious act of evil.
THanks. But I think it might be a more difficult question than whether private ownership of weapons can be formally defined as intrinsically evil. I don’t think that can happen, given the Church’s insistence on the right / duty of self-defense, the total novelty of the idea in the context of the Church’s history, not to mention the Church’s just-war teaching.
But it’s debatable whether the Church has the authority to forbid Catholics from owning or possessing firearms as a matter of discipline, similar to the old Index of restricted books or the modern requirement of fasting or penance on Fridays. Regrettably, I think that’s an open question.
But the issue is hardly raised by the Reuters account of the speech, reproduced in the JPost article TTAG trumpets. It seems to follow the predictable pattern of media link-bait-and-switch — what gets the most clicks and agitation is what gets spun and reported. I remember when JPII discussed the sinfulness of lust in marriage, and the media gleefully jumped on it for giggles and guffaws without bothering to explain the difference between lust and physical desire for one’s mate. Then there was B16’s identifying “contraceptive culture” as the cause of the AIDS epidemic in Africa, and the media screaming “Pope says condoms *cause* AIDS!” without bothering to mention that ‘contraceptive culture’ is Church shorthand for on-demand, ‘anything goes’ attitude toward sex.
Of course all I’ve said could be wrong — nobody’s seen any real reporting on this speech yet. It’s just too early to start screaming about anything.
+1
It’s clear that this pope cares about being a pastor rather than not ruffling feathers. I think he says many things to get people to thinking rather than as pronouncements of doctrine.
That being said, once you dig into what was actually said, often it becomes apparent that the media was just looking for clicks and views. I’ve done it enough to know not to get too excited about quotes like this.
Unfortunately, many people are looking for a reason to affirm their rebellion from their Creator. And, as you can see from the comments, quotes like these are all they need to pat themselves on the back for their rebellion.
I’ve stated this in the past and I’ll say it again there is a distinct difference between a religious person and a follower of Christ. And I believe the pope is a religious person.
Something tells me the real mr. christ would not carry heat, nor like guns too much
Nope. The real Christ Jesus (I will gladly drop the smugness of a formal “Mr.” before the name) was perfectly at home with a whip while driving out the money changers from the temple. At other times the bible reports he simply “slipped away” from his enemies. Considering Christ is The Son of God…actually God himself…it seems he didn’t need any proper battle implement to assist him. In fact he could have avoided the entire Crucifixion if he wanted to, but of course, he didn’t. He did know though, that his disciples, and therefore all of his followers, were mortal beings and would need what devices they could muster (swords or even “gasp” guns) to ensure they were not killed outright by evil people.
So where does the pope think the guns that are in the hands of his guards come from? Oh wait, he does know, he talking about mfgrs that make guns and sell them to people he doesn’t approve of or wants to keep under his time.
The dates change but the actions of those in power don’t. Pope’s have been shitting on the little guy since the pope wasn’t called the pope.
Catholicism isn’t a bad thing, it just generally ends up that way because of poor management. And not the management of JC and Supercheif, just the middle managment on Earth.
Those Glocks are +5 Holy Avengers…
They dont count.
GLOCK 17
Blessed weapon
The weapon is treated as having a +1 enhancement bonus for the purpose of bypassing the damage reduction of evil creatures or striking evil incorporeal creatures (though the spell doesn’t grant an actual enhancement bonus). The weapon also becomes good, which means it can bypass the damage reduction of certain creatures. (This effect overrides and suppresses any other alignment the weapon might have.) Individual bullets or slugs can be transmuted, but affected projectile weapons don’t confer the benefit to the projectiles they shoot.
I don’t think anyone can accuse this pope at being particularly bright.
I do believe the pope should speak for himself in matters of self preservation…
Actions like this are rather… concerning to me to say the least.
He (Jesus) said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
Luke 22:36
It’s opinion, not doctrine. He wasn’t speaking ex cathedra (“from the chair”) when he said this. His opinion on arms dealers and Catholics has about as much weight as me speaking on the matter.
And yeah, Francis, you might want to have the Vatican stop transacting with GLOCK if you really believe this sort of thing.
However, it’s endemic of the “guns for me and not for thee” mentality of the liberal set.
Nobody wants to give up their guns, They just want the other guy to give up his. Then there will be peace in our time.
What precisely determines Ex Cathedra? How is a sermon to a large gathering of people not? Does it require a more official setting?
The Vatican I council, which defined papal infallibility, decreed: “We teach and define that it is a dogma Divinely revealed that the Roman pontiff when he speaks ex cathedra, that is when in discharge of the office of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, by the Divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer willed that his Church should be endowed in defining doctrine regarding faith or morals, and that therefore such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves and not from the consent of the Church irreformable.” http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05677a.htm
And further: “infallibility is not attributed to every doctrinal act of the pope, but only to his ex cathedra teaching; and the conditions required for ex cathedra teaching are mentioned in the Vatican decree:
The pontiff must teach in his public and official capacity as pastor and doctor of all Christians, not merely in his private capacity as a theologian, preacher or allocutionist, nor in his capacity as a temporal prince or as a mere ordinary of the Diocese of Rome. It must be clear that he speaks as spiritual head of the Church universal.
Then it is only when, in this capacity, he teaches some doctrine of faith or morals that he is infallible (see below, IV).
Further it must be sufficiently evident that he intends to teach with all the fullness and finality of his supreme Apostolic authority, in other words that he wishes to determine some point of doctrine in an absolutely final and irrevocable way, or to define it in the technical sense (see DEFINITION). These are well-recognized formulas by means of which the defining intention may be manifested.
Finally for an ex cathedra decision it must be clear that the pope intends to bind the whole Church. To demand internal assent from all the faithful to his teaching under pain of incurring spiritual shipwreck (naufragium fidei) according to the expression used by Pius IX in defining the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin. Theoretically, this intention might be made sufficiently clear in a papal decision which is addressed only to a particular Church; but in present day conditions, when it is so easy to communicate with the most distant parts of the earth and to secure a literally universal promulgation of papal acts, the presumption is that unless the pope formally addresses the whole Church in the recognized official way, he does not intend his doctrinal teaching to be held by all the faithful as ex cathedra and infallible.” http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm#V
The ‘pope’ is just another ‘entitled’ sock-puppet of a corrupted religious/political/commercial venture, designed to control vast numbers of mentally-neutered peasants. Big man-Small Head.
A useless representative of an outdated concept.
Lighten up, Francis!
Last time I heard that one I fell off my pet dinosaur;-)
I expected better from him.
Wow f’ing puke.
Thank god I’m not a catholic.
Just to throw some data out there:
1,200 million Catholics (including a small number of breakaway sects)
800 million Protestants
240-300 million Eastern Orthodox
86 million Oriental Orthodox (which is centered on Ethiopia)
85 million Anglicans (I thought they were generally considered protestant but they are listed separately)
41 million others including Mormons, Christian Scientists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and so on, a very very very disparate group.
There are about as many non-RC Christians as there are RC Christians.
I guess I am just peevish and off-topic today but, if you split the “Protestant” category into groups with the same amount of inter-group consensus that the “Catholic”, “Orthodox”, and Anglicans have they end up in a big squabbling pile at the bottom of the list. 😛
I’m an atheist. This doesn’t offend me at all.
I wish the pope would go down to eastern Syria and Northwestern Iraq and explain to those wonderfully religious people how their guns are bad and the manufactures of their guns are bad and they should pound them into plows and stop hurting people with them . He could drive his electric car down there all on his own so the world could see how great his faith really is and he could even convert all those wayward souls to Christianity or maybe he could convert to Islam and everyone could get along and the wolves could lay with the sheep and everything would be fine . I think maybe he an Barry could go together as a team . A righteous team , sort of like a Christ and his prophet and I believe we can all be friends and …. and …… and …… oops , I was having another wide awake nightmare . Spear manufactures and Knife makers , evil hammer makers , car manufactures , Gun powder . On and on , all these people can’t be Christian either . I have seen a lot of people blown up in car bombs . Come on pontiff , don’t leave anyone out , it makes you look stupid .
Neither should kid f*ckers. Is that a plank in your eye or are you happy to see me?
Thank God I’m an atheist!
Don’t you mean “thank banana split…”? ????
Obviously, the Pope has not read Isaiah 54: 16, in which God says,
“Behold, I Myself have created the smith [&Wesson] who blows the fire of coals and brings out a weapon for it’s work. And I have created the destroyer to ruin.”
Woopsie!
If I were this (or any other pope) I’d worry more of trying to get rid of perversion in catholic church. You know, priests kids-rapers. There’s far too many that are still covered by the catholic church, directly or indirectly. Having grown personally in Rome, IT – I know with certosine precision.
So much for Papal Infallibility
Look back in history and you will find, if you don’t already know this, that the Catholic Church made an under the table deal with Hitler so he would protect their tribe. Then they looked the other way while thousands of Jews and other minorities were slaughtered. So, I take anything that anyone that represents the Catholic faith with a grain of salt.
Like this? http://www.npr.org/2015/04/24/401967360/pope-and-mussolini-tells-the-secret-history-of-fascism-and-the-church
But, god created man, hitler, George bush, Muslims, john browning, mark zuckerberg, and all us peeps, who made widely available guns, knives, IED’s, Chevy suburban, LCD screens, flush toilets, pop tarts, no?
Excuse me? That jab at Catholics at the end was unwarrented. The man is the leader of my religion, that doesn’t mean i am required to give a damn about his political opinions.
If you want to criticise the pope, go for it, but a blanket insult against an entire religion is un-fucking-necessary.
So what about the people that made the guns for the Pope’s armed guard? Hypocrite.
The Pope, and by extension the Catholic Church, does NOT get to decide what is “Christian” and what isn’t.
But hey, what do I know. During WW2 the Clergy of the Catholic Church decided that it was a good idea to cooperate with HITLER, rather than take a stand against the genocidal tyrant.
Suuuuure. I’m sure that Mary, who fled with her son rather than see a corrupt and totalitarian government murder him, would have LOVED to see the church sign a treaty with a corrupt and totalitarian government mandating Hitler Youth attendance for all the children. She would have LOVED to see her ideological descendants cowering behind their Mitres rather than being anything so dangerous as “Christ-like”.
Remember, none of us “little people” have a shroud of supposed “Holiness” to hide behind. When the time comes, we’ll be fed into the meat-grinder while the “holiest” leaders of the Catholic church wrap their assumed divinity around themselves and wait for history to swallow the details of their collusion with the next tyrant. The religion and its highest agents will endure, while the loyal, peaceful and perhaps most importantly, DISARMED adherents are sacrificed in a macabre reversal of Christs sacrifice on the cross.
Irony, thy name is the Catholic Church.
I guess the Pope doesn’t read the new testament…. Luke 22:36 “He that has no sword let him sell his garment and buy one.”
And of course, lets not forget that the Papal state hires that whole Swiss guard thing for security, so wouldn’t that make the Pope a merchant of death that he claims to so despise?
Aw, man! I wonder if holsters, as weapon accessories count. People sometimes say they lose their religion, but this is absurd. What’s my wife going to say?
Oh wait, nevermind. I’m protestant. We dumped the popes centuries ago for doing and saying stuff like this.
Well NOW I see Francis IS the final apostate Pope. My he’s gone hard left in a hurry.Get rid of your guns as you destroy your economy with globalwarming-er “climate change” BS. Don’t forget calling the murdering palestinians “heros”….NOW the just shall live by faith”-not by some guy in scarlett…and Jesus Christ never established any pope. Or South American liberation (marxist)theology…
“Trust God rather than man … ” Yeah … and the Pope is just another man that I no longer trust.
My grandparents are all Catholic and I feel bad they have this pope as their leader. The man is a jackass.
I’m wondering if the strange circumstances of his rise to the position were the result of some sort of blackmail the Marxists of the world held over the head of Benedict and the rest of the Vatican and as such, make this a fake, hollow papacy.
I can’t think of a more disgusting piece of trash who spouts decades old communist rhetoric than this rat in papal robes.
I don’t take gun advise from men who wear dresses.
By “dresses” I assume you mean “clothing men wear in other cultures which just doesn’t have incorporate individual pant legs”. In which case, there are some Scotsmen and centurions here to see you…
Hmm, sounds like the catholic pope is trying to declare himself a god or God himself. He is neither. Judgement is for.God, not a man who wears a stupid hat and expensive robes. In my opinion, he is merely an ambitious man seeking power and the earthly rewards of his position in a wealthy religious corporation. For those who are Catholic, I apologize, for one man should not be able to damage the reputation of the good works.of an.entire organization.
Ummm.. But Jesus says, “He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.” Luke 22:36
lol religion
Don’t worry, Franky. I don’t.
Hey man, religion is great if you want to make a lot of tax-free cash through a get rich quick scam. Just ask L Ron Hubbard.
Sprinkle some pedophilia on top and you got the catholic church. But don’t forget to deny it and do some victim blaming. Such great moral compass that il papa.
If he does not immediately disarm the Swiss Guard, he is just another hypocritical piece of shit.
I find it laughable that someone who sits on a golden throne, and leads a “church” with enough wealth to feed all of the hungry people in the world (but doesn’t)…… that is who gets to decide who can call themselves Christian?
I decided a long time ago to imagine how Yeshua/Jehova/Jesus would probably react to so many so-called Christians, and try to look at their actions/in-actions from that perspective.
People who manufacture weapons can’t be called Christians?
Then why did Jesus make sure the disciples had swords prior to leaving the upper room for the Garden of Gethsemane?
And why did David write that God made his hands strong for war?
And why did Nehemiah arm those who were rebuilding the wall of Jerusalem?
And why is there no office of the Pope in the Bible?
This is why some old man in a robe doesn’t broker your relationship with God or your ability to read the Bible and use your own brain.
This child molester is on an anti American Jihad, and he’ll be doing it on our own soil to our own body politic in September. The thought of that symbol of a one man tyrannical rule blaspheming our republic in the faces of our legislative body makes me wretch.
Members of the 9th Circle Cult aren’t classically Christian themselves, nor are Jesuits whom are to the last man guilty of idolatry.
I’ll stop carrying a gun when priests stop molesting little altar boys.
Neither is an organization that covers up little boys being touched.
Wow the global warming pope keeps delivering. This guy is a liberals liberal. He doesn’t realize that they (liberals) have no use for Christians, and unless he plans on converting to Islam, they aren’t going to start liking the Catholic church.
Discussing theology on a gun blog has to be one definition of insanity. I am a Catholic and I like Pope Francis. I think he is a breath of fresh air on most topics in the Church. I don’t agree with this statement he made, nor do I agree with the statement of the American Conference of Catholic Bishops that private gun ownership should be eliminated. But Catholics are are used to internal controversy. I remember back in the 80’s when I was in the Navy in Virginia Beach and I was a nuclear weapons loading officer, delivery crew and SIOP mission planner. The bishop of Richmond made a pronouncement that all Catholic military personnel who handled nukes should be excommunicated. However, the Catholic military chaplains who would have had to do the excommunications were not under him and ignored him.
Catholics live with stuff like this, knowing our allegiance to God, and even to our local congregations, is much more important that our allegiance to the Pope’s opinion. Also, let’s face it, he has a kernel of truth. If you think of “weapons manufacturers” as everything up to people who make WMD, some of them (not all) are ruthless bastards. I doubt he was even thinking of small arms manufacturers. But his statement was still irresponsible, IMHO.
What I wish is that one statement should not be used to make disparaging statements about a whole religion. When that happens, we start creating divisions that are not helpful to gun owners or anyone else. And that is true for any religion. The pastor of the Charleston church where nine people were killed was publically anti-gun. No one should use that to condemn that whole faith.
Religion is insanity. Discussing religion on a gun blog is discussing insanity.
What about all the people who make baseball bats? Do they get to still be Christians?
Or the people who make Lead Pipes? Do they still get to be Christians?
Or the people who make Candlesticks? Or Rope? Or Poison? Any of them get to still be Christians?
I have a novel idea…. lets condemn the killers in our society and leave the tools they use out of it.
I will catch hell for this, but the more comments I read by this Pope, the more convinced I am that he may be an agnostic or an Atheist. With his comments about having a world government and his pro Muslim stance and such, it does not seem he holds the Bible with much regard. On the topic of Guns, he is a complete hypocrite since the Vatican owns a lot of stock in Beretta Arms.
I consider myselft a Godly man, and hopefully a good christian. I am also an electrical engineer at Lake City.
-Confused in Independence.
And in a two-faced organization?
https://usahitman.com/vbmsipb/
As a faithful Catholic, I offten find myself disagreeing with the Holy Father concerning his comments made, outside of the contexts of the Faith and morality. He needs to be more specific. His comment violates 2264 of the Catachism of the Catholic Church and St. Thomas Aquinas’ own teachings on self-defense.
I remember a story told to me as a kid.
A man had received orders to evacuate his home because the river was flooding. He ignored the officers auggestion, saying God will save me.
As the waters rose, he got up on his roof. A man came by on a canoe, offering to rescue him. He still refused, saying God will help me.
Finally, clinging to his chimney, the water at his feet, a coast guard came by via helicopter and basket, but to their frustration he kicked the rescue basket away.
He was swept away by the water and promptly met God.
He asked? “Why didn’t you save me in my time of need?”
God said “What are you talking about, everytime I sent help you refused it!
This pope is big ass hypocrite. His swiss guard has pistols, smgs and assault rifles.
In Revelation, it talks about a great rising-up against the Church, I’m beginning to see how that could happen.
His Holiness just Sh_t himself there (well, he had also done it previously with his defense of Communism/Socialism), Has he published an encyclical against abortion? More people die from abortion each year than many other causes. Big Tobacco (cigarettes) paid millions of dollars in taxes. A FRACTION of that money was given to planned parenthood which used it to kill more people than cigarettes could ever hope to. Bill Clinton resided over the distribution of most of the Tobacco settlement claim $. More of it went to Planned Parenthood, and since, they very efficiently killed more people than all the deaths from cigarettes combined ever.
When ISIS reaches Rome, make sure your favorite gun manufacturer is busy contemplating their Christianity.
I wonder what he’s being blackmailed with.
This pope gets to decide who’s Christian as much as this corrupt government gets to decide who’s American.
I find it funny that this pope condemns weapons makers, yet supports Marxism through and through, a policy that has been responsible for the deaths of millions. What a joke.
Catholic bashing on a Sunday, wonderful.
Also, the headline doesn’t match the quote.
You and the Holy Father could learn the same lesson. Stay in your realm of competence or look like a fool.
Methinks the good Pope has been hitting the communion wine way too hard.
Another hypocrite that enjoys 24/7 protection from armed guards that thinks nobody else should have firearms. How many people has the his church massacred in the name of religion again?
I note in passing that the Pope’s Swiss Guard carries weapons. So, Francis, if you’re really a Christian, you’ll disarm them entirely.
He can take that roman popery and cram rosery beads up himself. Diddiling little boys is still A-OK though,right?
The pope’s real name is Jorge Mario Bergoglio and he is a left wing politician and he is delusional.
Why is his real name relevant to any of this (or anything else that he does as a Pope)?
Why, of course, it reveals his continuing communist conspiracy from Argentina as he conspires with Obola to render us all defenseless serfs. Try to keep up.
Luke 22:36
“Then He said to them, But now let him who has a purse take it, and also [his provision] bag; and let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy a sword.”
If your remember history and the fall of Rome, the Catholic Church was at a new height concerning riches and power….the emperor was openly gay and walked backwards in the streets…..
I’m probably going to hell for the things I’ve [not] done, my thoughts and morals have not always held up.
A sinner can seek forgiveness…so what does a ‘holy man’ seek?
The last emperor of Rome was a child, maybe 14yo, and was overthrown by a German chief in 476. The emperor you’re thinking of was Elagabalus who was assassinated in 222. Well before the fall. Further, the “walking backwards” thing was from his worship of the Roman deity Elagabal. He walked in front of a chariot bearing the image of the deity, backwards so as to look upon the image. Though he had many failings, he was the first to allow women into the Senate.
You are correct, except the ‘Church’ was OK with all the ‘progressive’ nonsense we are plagued with today..
The fall of Rome took centuries but seeing the same things that caused it’s failing mirrored in a fast pace today has me a bit worried!
And tongue in cheek….we lost it all when women got the right to vote! That doomed manhood……;)
Jesus Christ is the only man who has ever been without sin. All men are born with sinfull natures which is why they have the need of a savior.
Jesus lay with prostitutes. I don’t blame him- he had the same urges as other men.
Now if he was married, that’d be a sin.
I’m telling , Barry and Francis come out of nowhere at the same time to rule over the most powerful nation empire and the most powerful religious empire . Both these men are enigmas and offer only confusion . I do believe they will become a ruling team soon and rule together for 3.5 years when the great calamity falls . I have done extensive research on this subject but this is the wrong place for this discussion , They both do want to disarm Americans however , by their words and actions and this is a great platform for this topic . Nearly any item can kill in the right ( or wrong ) hands . If Francis really believes in his statement then literally everything made would prohibit the association with being Christian but then according to Barry the gun manufactures didn’t make those guns , they didn’t build that , we all built that . Hum ?
“Warning his audience to trust God rather than man…”
The Pope stopped talking and had some tea.
…at least if he wasn’t a hypocrite.
All the goodwill for the Catholic Church that the tremendous Pope John Paul II engendered in me is getting washed right down the tubes with this guy.
With non radical muslims being targeted by isis, isil, aq etc. Christians targeted where they are minorities, I will keep my sword and encourage those that don’t want to be victims regardless of religion, political Ideology, race or economic status to ignore this fool and beat their plows into swords.
Sadly, this pope has become a political hack and general “tool.” His stance on global warming, illegal immigration and now guns, gun owners and gun-makers demonstrates he has political aspirations rather than any interest in leading his flock in all things religious. I’m sad for anyone that calls themselves Catholic- you have my deepest condolences and heartfelt prayers.
I am not Catholic though I am a Christian. The socially liberal leanings of the Catholic Church make me sad. With things like this it is no wonder that we have seen a decline of the Catholic Church . Apparently Pope Francis has never read Pope John Paul II’s Evangelium Vitae. The Pope addressed the paradox between the commandment not to murder (becuase the image of God is in every human being), vs. the legitimate right of self defence. “Unfortunatly it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose action brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason.” Defense of self and others is part of protecting the santity of life. Trust in God and Passivity are not the same thing.
People Give the pope too much credit, he is as close to god as any other human being, and when he dies, he gets the same treatment as any nobody…I don’t understand why people follow these con men.
OK, here is the text from ZENIT, a news service that covers Catholic news:
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pope-s-off-the-cuff-address-to-youth-of-turin
A couple of things are immediately apparent to even the most low-information individuals. 1) These are extemporaneous remarks, not a formal, prepared speech, 2) they say nothing about the private ownership of weapons at all; 3) they don’t mention any US-specific firearms issues whatsoever.
A couple of things are immediately apparent to me as well. I own guns, I love shooting. My favorite is an S&W Model 25 with a 4″ barrel (bought that one in the 1990s for a couple of hundred bucks, imagine my surprise at the prices these babies command on GunBroker!), but my carry is a “Gen 0” Glock 22. I usually don’t vote Republican because the Republicans don’t nominate Republicans any more. And I’m a Roman Catholic.
It was disheartening to see TTAG jump on this story — complete with Mr. Farago’s anti-Catholic spin and comment cue — within hours after the Reuters report was released. If TTAG had waited, say, 15 hours, they could have fact-checked and, well, actually known what they were writing about. See, if NPR’s website said, “TTAG is anti-Semitic!” I’d go to TTAG and see for myself before deciding whether Robert Farago hates Jews. I’d like to think TTAG has the same respect for accuracy.
It was also disheartening to see so many bigots do the same thing. It’s apparent that there are a lot of people here who truly, deeply, hate Catholicism. That’s a perfectly-defensible position, although not for the ignorant, misinformed, illiterate reasons so many people have given in the comments. Certainly if, for example, one subscribes to Reformed theology, the Westminster Confession is a sensible document that accurately depicts the Roman Catholic Church as one of the greatest deceptions perpetrated on mankind. That is a respectable position, which appears in some of the comments above. I have no quarrel with people who hate (properly biblical hate of sin, I mean) my religiion because they only do it for love of Christ and His Truth — implicit in their (proper) hating is love for me and a concern for my imprisoned soul. I can be neighbors with someone like that.
I can’t be neighbors with people, like many commenters above, whose standards are satisfied by Klan rhetoric, simple-minded sniggering, tin-hat conspiracy theories, and ridiculous double standards whose only intelligible theme is “I hates dem Catlicks!”
There is a tremendous culture war beginning in the US over gun ownership. Those of us old enough to have lived through the Brady Ban and villification of gun owners on shows like the old “West Wing” haven’t seen anything yet. The antis have always preferred divide-and-rule (“we want assault cannons, not grandad’s shotgun” — “we want cheap guns owned by black people not expensive Wilson Combat 1911s”). They’ve upped the stakes — instead of dividing gun owners from themselves, they want to divide gun ownership from category of decent human beings. They’ll do anything — even spin a story about Pope Francis into something it’s not, with the help in this case of TTAG.
Y’all ought to ask yourselves — is my TTAG comment what I want to tell a Catholic who owns a gun? Is my comment what I want to tell a Catholic who is making up his or her mind about owning a gun? You can bet that leftist forces in the Church, who put their own opinions over the Gospel, either deliberately or in ignorance of the facts and Church teaching, will be busy imposing their agendas on well-meaning and unsuspecting Catholics. A lot of you guys, including Mr. Farago, ought to stay well clear of that fight. Until you wise up, you’re the antis’ best weapons.
+100
Well done.
now he has gone from preaching to meddling.
What amazes me is how these guys continue not to seem to realize that six hundred years ago a bunch of people got together and told Rome to go to hell and stay there. In fact most of America was founded by people fleeing Rome’s Europe. The protestors, or Protestants founded all the major denominations in existence, and yet the leadership in every one of them seems to have forgotten that Rome was our first enemy, and never stopped being one.
Our second enemy was Britain. And we’ve forgotten that, too.
Rome’s fall is a complicated one which began more than a millennium and a half ago. Corruption, apathy, Christianity, barbarians, incest, plutocracy, slavery, lead poisoning, etc…and a split with the East.
South American, leftist, Socialism. Blame capitalism, the worst system (except for all the OTHERS).
As one who was raped by Roman Catholic priests at St Thomas More parish in Durham NH and denied justice by this disgusting cult of pedophiles, by their using the statute of limitations, I got a bone to pick with this Pedophile Pimp Pope Frankie. He disgusts me.
Here is the TRUTH about this Pedophile Pimp Pope and the UN is condemning HIM and the rest of the RCC.
Pope Francis allowed his prelate 15 months freedom to commit crimes involving child pornography which sometimes involves their tortuous death
The next day, the Italian newspaper Il Corriere della Serra reported that Wesolowski was arrested by order of the pope because “there was a serious risk that the nuncio would be arrested on Italian territory at the request of the Dominican authorities and then extradited.” Wesolowski had more than 100,000 computer files of pornography. “Some were downloaded from the internet and others the victims themselves were forced to take. The prelate stored part of this chamber of horrors on his own laptop. The material, which is classified by type, shows dozens of young girls engaged in sexual activities but the preference is for males. Images show youngsters aged between 13 and 17 being humiliated for the camera, filmed naked and forced to have sexual relations with each other or with adults. … Wesolowski is suspected of belonging to an international network that extends well beyond what has emerged so far.”
If you want to know more, google Pope Francis Defies the UN on Torture. You will see, this is no man of gawd or a holy man, but a degenerate who continues the tradition of the last 8 popes in participating in the cover ups of the rapes of children. At least ONE MILLION children throughout the world, since the 1950’s were raped, tortured, brutalized, enslaved, used as medical experiments including forced sterilization, sold into sex slavery and murdered by this cult.
From their Magdalene and Good Shepherd Laundries, were women were treates as abject slaves, to their Industrial Homes like Artane and Bindoon, were boys sent to these houses of horror, were gang raped, gang beaten, forced to participate in the beatings and rapes, to their Industrial Schools, like their First Nation Industrial Schools in Canada, where at least ten thousand and more Native children were brutally murdered, beaten to death by nuns and brothers who ran them, besides being raped and used as medical experiments, and last but not least, their Women’s and Children’s homes, were children and infants died at almost an 80% mortality rate, the Unholy Roman Catholic Church should be completely and utterly destroyed, all of their Popes, Cardinals, Bishops and Archbishops who covered up these crimes, should be arrested and tried at the World Court at the Hague, and all their pedophiles and child abusing priests, brothers, nuns and sisters, arrested and tried also, it is time people wake the heck up and stop fawning over these degenerates and do something.
If one million children were done this way by ISIS or the Muslims, or any other organization, people would be up in arms, but because it is the Unholy Roman Catholic Church? they get a pass don’t they?
Says the Jesuit Pope…
The more we hear from Francis these days the less I think of him… He diminishes his position with this type of hair brained cool-aid drinking ideology… IMO this tripe does not serve God… This Christian is keeping his sword (guns) and I will help enlighten my Brothers and Sisters every chance I get…
Wow, the head of the Catholic Church has officially made a false church of the whole denomination…
F*ck the Pope.
Coming from an organization that over its history is directly responsible for millions of deaths and untold levels of misery and despair, this is laughable. Someone needs to tell the Pope to shut the EFF up !
Define ‘weapon’, il Papa; before you deign to define for others the limits of their faith.
Investing in gun manufacturers = not Christian.
Hiding pedophiles= Christian.
Got it.
Anything can be fashioned into a weapon. Boxing gloves have ripped up men’s faces and protected the hands of powerful men who’ve wrecked and killed other men in a “sporting” event.
OK, settle down. He was speaking in Italian and a lot is lost in translation when trying to put it into English. The word he used can be translated into sword, knife, pistol, rifle, grenade, missile, WMD’s. Get it? The liberal stupid media wants every one to believe that the pope is talking about guns and private ownership. So stop over reacting and saying all kind of stupid and insulting things about Catholics. It is official Catholic teaching to have the right to defend ourselves, period. OK, understand? Plus his speech was to Italian youth and not in any way Catholic teaching or official church stance, but the liberal media wants you to believe that by screwing up the translation, the context and the unimportance of the statement. Settle down, catch your breath and educate yourself on this before condemning Catholics, there are plenty of us who own guns for hunting and self defense, including my local parish priest.
+100
And thank you!
Roman Catholic gun nut in Vermont
This Pope is a Jesuit anti-Christ and in light of the tribulation taking place in North Africa and the Middle East , he may be ‘ the ‘ anti-Christ or the false prophet .
Ah, cool, another Jack Chick comic strip fan! Yes, the Pope is the Harlot of Rome, the Scarlet Whore, and he and his demonic minions distribute the Death Cookie to all the incredulous Papists who still believe in his evil regime when they’re not molesting babies.
Maybe ?
I saw it all in a dream .
I’m actually existing on the multiverse and you have just crossed over and communicated with one ( or more ) of my millions of doppelgangers in one of the millions of other dimensions that are existing at once and always .
We never know do we ?
And by the way David , you may not want to exclaim to the CLOUD ( Hello NSA ) , that you are a gun NUT . Those two words together may turn you into a nut without a gun . Just sayin . Maybe you could say ,
Gun owner in Vermont . I wouldn’t want to lose another brother in arms to the confiscators .
I really don’t have any problems with anyone being Catholic or Mormon or Jehovah Witness or any thing they choose to be as long as they treat me the same , but do you really believe we are living in the Millennial 1000 year reign on earth and the Pope is the representative of Christ here , before the final Judgment ?
If you do then it is pretty odd you would poke fun of my comment whether I meant it or not .
Anyway , Luv ya in the name of Christ OUR savior . God bless .
So disarm the Swiss guards at the Vatican, you hypocrite.
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