By Cliff Heseltine

I see a lot of snide comments here and elsewhere on the interwebz about “zombie guns,” “zombie bullets” and “zombie targets.” What exactly is your problem with these artifacts if, in fact, they get people interested in firearms and shooting and survival strategies? Does every bit of training have to be absolutely related to real-world scenarios even if that means people who could otherwise be recruited to the side of liberty and defense of the Second Amendment will be lost to us? Where is the sense in that? A little background, just for fun . . .

In modern fiction zombies are the result of either a naturally occurring catastrophic viral mutation or the intentional creation of an infection agent, extremely virulent, but only transmitted when bitten by a zombie. Once bitten the “infection” can’t be prevented or cured. Incubation may take as much as an hour or more, or symptoms may appear almost immediately, depending on the requirements of the plot. It’s interesting, however, that non-infected humans are often engaged in violent hand-to-hand combat with zombies without regard for blood splatter. In modern zombie myths, the undead may be either fast- or slow-moving, with purported explanations that newly-infected zombies are faster.

It’s generally considered that zombies are extremely difficult to kill. Since they’re are depicted as people who have already died and been re-animated by the disease organism, this might be considered a “reasonable” assumption, but there are some issues:

  1. In all of history, as we know it, no living thing has ever died and been “re-animated.” Even people declared clinically dead and who fully recover do not come back as zombies.
  2. No disease vector we are aware of has the ability to create the symptoms usually attributed to “zombies.”
  3. Zombies are immune to physical pain, heat, cold, loss of limbs or organs, including the heart, and exsanguination. It is a physiological impossibility for any life form to continue to function under those conditions.
  4. Zombies instinctively attack non-zombie humans in order to eat their internal organs and sometimes specifically their brains, however, they have no digestive functions nor an operational circulatory system with which to distribute nutrients.
  5. Zombies are not reliant on any physical organ other than their “brain.” They function entirely on instinct to seek non-infected humans. The only way to stop a zombie is to remove its head, which does not “kill” it, but renders the separate parts no longer a hazard. To completely remove the threat a zombie must have its brain removed and/or destroyed.

Now back to our regularly scheduled reality:

Because zombies, as described, are physiologically impossible, it must be understood that the concept of a zombie is purely metaphorical. They are the literary depiction of some inexorable evil in society that must be fought, that’s known and recognized as evil, and that’s socially acceptable to destroy on sight.

In many stories non-zombie characters are introduced for the specific purpose of depicting people who are unwilling to recognize or confront the threat that the zombies pose to mankind. These characters must either die or be lost to the zombie infection due to their refusal to face reality, although in some cases a character may have an epiphany and accept responsibility for their own defense and that of the community.

Down through the years, various antagonists have taken on the metaphoric role of bogeyman depending on sociological fashions. In Nazi Germany it was the Jews. In the Soviet Union it was dissidents, in WW II Allied countries it was fascism. In science fiction they are alien invaders (Starship Troopers), or a genetic experiment gone wrong (Day of the Triffids).

In modern industrial societies many of the younger generation, seeking to make a place for themselves in the world as free individuals, fear the threat of being absorbed into the mass of day-to-day life represented by their regimented parents. Their loss of individuality and absorption into the soulless industrial machine where they will – as they see it – work out their lives mindlessly following the dictates of society, bereft of free will appears to them as a fate worse than death. Think of Star Trek – Next Generation’s Borg: “You WILL be assimilated – resistance is futile.”

The beauty of Nazis, Triffids, the Borg and all zombie analogs is that they are universally recognized as a pure evil and it’s one’s DUTY to fight it. You can work toward their complete physical destruction without any societal approbation. This freedom of moral ambiguity is quite attractive to young people who are seeking to define their morals and ethics in a confusingly grey adult world.

If you look at much (non romance or “chick-flick”) fiction the key plot element is the point at which the protagonist has the self-confidence to take decisive, even deadly, action without fear of condemnation by society. The fictional zombie provides a perfect surrogate for the things in society we fear and wish to destroy unilaterally.

To millions of the younger generation in our urbanized society the traditional methods of passing on the “Manly Arts” of hunting and combat are no longer available. Young men growing up in the cities have little access to the tools or lore of hunting for food and little concept of why doing so would be worth the effort, since everything they need is in the grocery stores. In addition, access to firearms appropriate for hunting or combat is lacking and in too many cases either discouraged or even officially prohibited.

Following the carnage of the Civil War, two world wars, the futile combat in Korea and Viet Nam, and the nearly universal condemnation by public schools, academia, and the Progressive media since the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan, of military action, many young men fail to understand why military service would be advantageous to them or their country.

In America the only exposure most young men have to firearms is television, movies, and video games, or, unfortunately, urban gangs. The accuracy of the fictional depictions is quite often ludicrous and sometimes even farcical. Even in the best depictions of weapons the tactics employed and their effects on the participants are often entirely unrealistic.

Many first person shooter games include the concept of zombies, usually as easy targets to keep the game interesting. These games also vary widely in their ability or even desire to depict real universe operation of the firearms depicted. Once a gamer’s appetite is whetted, however, why shouldn’t we step in with an option to correct the mis-information and use those weapons and tactics in live, though fictional or even fantastical, scenarios? Why would we, as the people of the gun, willingly throw this opportunity away?

Practical pistol, 3-gun, and other similar competitions are NOT realistic recreations of practical scenarios. They may be closer than standing in one spot and shooting at a bulls-eye, but no one is shooting back at you! CQB training with AirSoft or Simunitions or even paintball may be closer to reality, but those scenarios are often claustrophobic with cramped shoot houses and constrictive safety masks and other equipment.

Zombie Hunts could be created using these same training weapons in order to teach maneuver and tactics, as well as teamwork. Since the zombies would not be shooting back the student would not need facemasks or other protective clothing, and such equipment worn by any “live” zombies encountered would not be an issue. Even though the interactions would be against fictional zombies the lessons learned would be applicable to real world situations as well. The possibilities are endless, educational, and most of all, entertaining. At reasonable prices what young man or group of friends would not abandon the Laser Tag storefront, “Capture the Flag” paintball arenas, or the on-line gaming community to take on these more exciting challenges using convincing replicas of actual firearms?

Once trained it would be important to move on to live weapons and teaching the characteristics, benefits and limitations of each type of firearm in real world situations. The students will already have learned some tactics and movement and teamwork, so variations of competition scenarios could be used. Targets should be life-size simulations of zombies, preferably mannequins, not cardboard cut-outs or steel gongs, and MUST fall when a head shot is scored. There could also be situations such as Team Three Gun where one team member carries the shotgun, one the rifle, and one the pistol. They must work out a safe strategy beforehand and then attack the course in unison to complete the stage. The zombie targets, until knocked down, must continue slowly approaching the shooters. Timing stops when the last zombie falls, but if any zombie reaches a barricade without falling the team would be disqualified. All other 3-gun safety protocols MUST be adhered to!

After fantasy training and competition against phony zombies, what could entice these young shooters to become life-long People of the Gun? A real-life Zombie Hunt, and we have a perfect surrogate infection in America even now – over four million feral pigs in 45 of the 50 states, with the greatest populations in Texas, California, Florida and Oregon, but significant numbers throughout the southeast and through Oklahoma, Arkansas and into Missouri.

Once trained and certified for live-fire new shooters could take the next step. Feral pigs are wary, dangerous enough to get the blood pumping, and there is generally no bag limit or seasonal restriction. All ya got to do is find ‘em and kill ‘em. This sort of field exercise is a perfect opportunity to expose young people to militia style small unit discipline and tactics and squad-level patrolling and ambushes. Contact with the zombie/pigs would be thrilling and instructive, since these targets won’t just stand there and let you shoot them, and they may in fact charge at you instead of away from you, in the manner of “Fast Zombies.” Such a hunt is not entirely without risk, which would make it all but irresistible to young people.

I can really see no downside to promoting the Zombie Apocalypse as a means of recruiting new blood to the shooting sports. Whatever training these people get will have some real world benefits, dispel some myths and outright falsehoods, provide entertainment and excitement and even a little taste of danger, and promote shooting sports and the businesses dependent on new blood to prosper into the future. And there can be no doubt that a certain percentage of these newbies will go on to military careers, mainstream shooting competitions, or man the pro-gun barricades with us.

So let’s stop arguing against zombies as ridiculous fantasies and support to the Zombie Apocalypse!

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153 COMMENTS

  1. As long as zombies are discussed in a somewhat comedic light, I think it’s great for our side.

    Just don’t go overboard and pull a Eric Cartman.

  2. Zombies are a silly novelty. Treating it seriously is stupid and just reinforces the idea that gun people have mental problems.

    So zombie colored merchandise? Novelty… fine. “Training”? Stupid. If someone is immature enough that they need to play with zombie fantasies, they should stick to paintball and COD.

    • I like Green tipped Hornady’s better than red 😀 COD and Zombies are what my generation got into in the college / young professional years. I don’t see any problem with it, except for mall ninja’s are annoying. You take a liberal college student, and get them tooled up with an AR15 zombie rifle, they begin to question their politics.

      But don’t tell me to grow up by casting away forms of entertainment that you don’t like or understand.

    • The novelty IS the training, and the training can be the stepping stone to the more “Macho” realities so many people are fond of promoting.

      The point is to get people who would not be other wise inclined to bother to get out and actually get a taste of shooting real guns. Are innocuous cardboard silhouettes or swinging steel gongs any more frivolous or unrealistic than zombie targets?

      I know you are/were law enforcement and your day to day experience is more real-world oriented, but an awful lot of people could be recruited to our cause by pure entertainment, zombie novelties or not, than will ever bother to get involved in training to be an “operator” which most of the really expensive schools and even a lot of 3-gun competition promotes.

      I like guns and shooting, always have. I do not do as much of it as I would like because it is expensive and after awhile just boring unless you move past the static targets available at most ranges. But there is no way I would pay for nor subject myself to the expensive and competitive and highly Seal Team Six mindset of most of the training and competition scenarios available today. It just ain’t my cuppa tea.

      Zombies? Hell yeah, I could go out and shoot a bunch of them on a weekend.

    • Its a socially acceptable and light-hearted reason to prep for disasters, and that’s why I like it. “Why do you have all this stuff?” “Zombie apocalypse.” And you all laugh and have another beer. Any excuse to be prepared I support, and if one makes it “cool” all the better.

  3. Nice pic of bicycle girl episode one of TWD.
    Ok ok I am not a zombie fanatic, but can we say it harmed the gun industry? Nah, it probably helped spawn a bunch of new young shooters. And that is a good thing.
    So carry on…

    • If that novel requires that you go all zombie and eat her brain, you better bring some peanuts. You’ll be one starving mutant.

      Actually, I take that back. She is extremely intelligent, A very successful and very savvy professional. More’s the pity…. Imagine if that intellect and cunning could be turned toward good instead of evil. Intelligent policy instead of self-serving PR.

    • Dirk, the story of you and Shannon has already been written. I think it was called “Fatal Attraction.”

      Stay away from the bunny boiler, my man.

  5. Because unfortunately, some manufacturers abandoned/suspended their non-zed lines, and are charging extra for the zombie version. screw that.

  6. “The Ophiocordyceps fungus contains various known and untapped bioactive metabolites, and is being investigated as a new source of natural drugs with immunomodulatory, antitumor, hypoglycemic and hypocholesterolemic functions”

    Don’t worry, science is working on the zombies.

      • Google the quoted text. It is a Wiki article about a fungus that creates “zombie ants”. It’s pretty fascinating, and is a step towards debunking the author’s “1. In all of history, as we know it, no living thing has ever died and been “re-animated.” Even people declared clinically dead and who fully recover do not come back as zombies.”.

        • I may (or may not) stand corrected. Nevertheless, it is my firm understanding that entropy is an absolute and cannot be run in reverse. Therefore, if something appears to be dead and comes back to life, it was never really dead in the first place.

          I stand by my statement that no living thing has EVER died and been re-animated by viral, medical or supernatural means, so zombies are not and cannot be real.

        • Whether or not something can die and come back to life depends entirely upon your definition of death. Cellular function can continue for hours or even days after “death” in a human body. You can make a frog’s dismembered legs dance by passing an electrical current through them. I did it once in a bio class. Indeed, even after the loss of cellular function it’s not inconceivable that with sufficiently advanced nano-technology one could effect repairs and revive the organism.

          But death is not a necessity for zombies, only that they cease being “people” and become “other”. In many cases the zombies have no death phase, one minute they’re talking, the next they’re going crazy and trying to bite their erstwhile friends. Such a thing is very much possible, fungi like the aforementioned cordiceps (the inspiration behind the game “The Last of Us”), parasites, diseases like rabies, all can alter their hosts, turn them into the “other”, the threat.

        • The movie 28 Days had living zombies. Normal humans that were turned into zombie like berserkers but still very much alive instead of being undead.

          Then there is the classic film White Zombie in which Bela Lugosi uses voodoo powder to destroy the upper mental functions of his victims. Turning them into mindless zombie servents for his suger mill.

        • C’mon guys, this is all fantastical speculation, physiological nit-picking, or pure fictional mythology. We’re getting a little off point here, which is that there are plenty of really evil things in the world for which the fictional zombie apocalypse is just a metaphor unless and until we are ready to put a real-world name to the thing we truly fear.

          Fighting zombies in the meantime gives us the opportunity to hone those skills we MIGHT someday need if we are forced to confront the physical manifestation of the metaphorical monsters.

          And explaining how zombies in fiction, or speculated in voodoo or other scenarios, are not actually dead before they are zombie-fied only corroborates my contention about entropy. Electrical stimulation to dead frog legs that have not yet putrified does not demonstrate in any scientific way that they can be brought back to what we refer to as life in the sense of a physical entity controlled by a thought process. Once the brain dies, life ends. Even if you keep the body functioning through extraordinary medical intervention the PERSON is never coming back.

          Even the transplantation of organs, including the heart, in humans does not indicate coming back from the dead because the brain of the person receiving the heart is very carefully preserved and functioning throughout the process.

  7. Well, as an actual zombie fanatic, I can honestly say that I became curious about firearms at a very young age because of this phenomenon. I’m sure hippy George Romero didn’t intend this, but my earliest memories about guns are not from cowboy movies or cop shows but this scene of his;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4eJEFuZD1M

    • That was the first zombie film I ever saw. I think I was 11. Scared me thoroughly.
      Good times. Good times.

    • Dawn of the Dead and Day of the Dead grabbed me like no other zombie flicks. To this day, one of my favorite movie quotes is Peter in that scene. “Ain’t it a crime. The only person that could miss with this is the sucka with the bread to buy it.”

    • I think you are absolutely right in that assessment, Ralph.

      The point at which that evil which we fear will overwhelm us becomes so obvious that the sociological constraints against openly fighting and destroying it evaporate is what many people wish for.

      The questions are: Who decides who the zombies are? and Will our response be in time?

      Meantime, why not have fun with it? Survivalists spend a lot of time and money on their hobby preparing for an Armageddon that may never occur. And yet much is learned in the endeavor. My contention is that we should make use of the interest in Zombies for the same purpose.

      • None of the Zombie-philes I know treat it that way. They use the fad as a thinly veiled attempt to hide their desperate desire to go on a shooting spree. Maybe I don’t the right people, but I am shocked by the reactions in these comments. I don’t see ANYTHING good about the zombie fad from the prospective of a responsible gun owner who wants to be taken seriously.

    • That’s what is terrifying about it as a fad, especially for the firearms industry. All of the people I know who gained an interest in firearms from their interest in the zombie apocalypse, make the “Irresponsible gun owners of the day list” look reasonable. I have had to give several people lectures on gun safety…

      And then lectures on REALITY.

      • Yes, but you had the opportunity to give them the lecture. That’s the point. I’m not entirely certain you can lecture to sanity – it doesn’t seem to have worked well for all those psychiatrists who attend lectures and conventions at every opportunity.

        At any rate, stupid is as stupid does. Ignorance can be cured, stupid can’t.

  9. Other than the zombie meme being tired, zombies are just a politically correct metaphorical “bad guy”. It is not unlike books, movies and games (fictional works) using “Nazis” as their bad bad guys (e.g. The movie “Sum of All Fears” using Neo-Nazis instead of radical muslim terrorists from the book).

    • I contend that while some people may be tired of the “zombie meme”, the general public has not lost interest as indicated by the continued production of vampire, werewolf and zombie movies and TV shows, each of which are just variations on the zombie theme.

      Since the evil represented by zombies is almost universal in fiction where people strike out in self-preservation, the concept of zombies, whether or not they look like Hollywood fantasies, will never go stale. I deleted from my original article some references to real-world zombie plagues because that might have initiated controversy that distracted from my main point, but not just feral pigs fit the role, and many others are much more virulent and pose a real threat to world pandemic. I will let each reader fit their own bogeyman into that role. “The Sum of All Fears” you mention is a perfect case in point.

      • You can’t lump vampires and werewolves in with zombies, that would be like saying Superman and The Hulk are the same thing.

        • I include them only as alternative metaphors as those things that are socially acceptable to destroy on sight. The actual literary differences by which an author decides which of these metaphorical Bad Guys is appropriate to their story are obviously a lot more complex.

      • When the flagship movie of your fad, i.e. World War Z, stars Brad Pitt. It’s pretty much the death knell.

        • Also interesting how little the movie actually resembled the book, which was, IMO, a warning as to how we are in peril due to our propensity to ignore real threats until they are poised to overwhelm us. The zombies were, once again, just a metaphor for the real threat.

  10. I’m not sure bringing in a bunch of people who truly believe that zombie’s are real and will ravage the earth into the shooting sports and so forth is a good idea. Maybe they should all see shrinks, not guns. Just my personal thoughts on the idea.

    • No rational person believes zombies, as depicted in fiction, are or even could be real. To think otherwise would be delusional.

      This does not mean we should not cater to those people who have been exposed to zombies as fiction and would enjoy fantasy encounters mimicking these scenarios. As I stated in the post, not every training regimen has to be starkly realistic in order to achieve its goals. I was in the Army. I learned a lot, but you could not have enticed me to go Airborne or Rangers or Delta Force or Green Beret. That is a whole different level of personality beyond mine and the majority of folks who would still like to enjoy shooting at stuff.

        • I have to wonder who you’re hanging out with. I’ve never met a single person who literally believed that zombies were a real or even remotely possible problem and I’m a member of a Zombie Eradication Response Team. I’d say that zombies are the least of your worries, you need to move out of the asylum and find some friends who aren’t clinically delusional.

          • I see zombies every election shuffling to the poles and pushing the democrat lever muttering “send us more welfare MORE WELFARE!!!!!”

          • Well, you have to admit, there are an awful lot of people running around and voting who show about as much capacity for reason as a pack of zombies. I liken it to the Invasion of the Mind Snatchers.

            • I agree with you on this Rich. I’ve run into a bunch of people whose lights were on but no one seemed to be home.

      • I don’t believe in werewolves either… but I’ve got a few 12 gauge rounds loaded with silver shot just in case. 🙂

        I will probably never use them, but it’s a fun hobby.

        Zombies are used in preparedness circles as an analogy. See, if you’re prepared for a zombie invasion, you’re prepared for pretty much anything.

        Realistically, you’re not going to fire a shot if a tornado knocks out the power for 3 weeks, but all that food and water you stockpiled for the zombie invasion would come in handy.

        • “See, if you’re prepared for a zombie invasion, you’re prepared for pretty much anything.”

          I know that’s the analogy I’ve always used. You need some kind of purpose for training or preparedness, if you don’t know what that is say “zombie” and you can cover it all….firearms, food, fuel….

  11. The metaphor analysis is right on, BUT zombies may not be simply a stand in for the forces of an impersonal adult world. To me it is much more plausible that they are what anthropologists might refer to as “the other”, social or racial groups not ones own. Yup, I said race. Go ahead, figure it out. The whole zombie thing is seriously problematic in my view.
    Dan touches on “the other one percent” correctly. Since the repeal of the draft, young folks are no longer much exposed to the military. An enormous mixing institution (for good or ill, lets face, cross class exposure to other classes is much less without a drafted army) is now filled with a more homogenous group ( ain’t a lot of rich kids in there). Our society is much poorer for this.
    It’s a lot easier for politicians to send volunteers, drawn from a less powerful political/economic group off to a needless, stupid war than it is to send the children of the rich and powerful ( yes, 43, I’m talking to you).
    So: zombies are a stand in for class/race warfare. Yes, exposing as many young folks as possible to firearms is a good idea, a very needed thing indeed. Zombies, however? Not so much.

  12. Just like every other fad this will die down, then you’ll see many of the people who were suddenly interested in firearms move on to the next thing. Many of the zombie lovers don’t quite understand how their freedoms are going to be affected by the control movement; they see guns as toys, something cool to do. If people truly get interested and then become a part of the gun community, take responsible classes, help promote good information and spread the joy of shooting then it’s fine. I don’t see many of these hipsters doing that.

    • Without encouragement from POTG and an entertaining way to get involved I don’t see ANY of these “hipsters” getting involved.

  13. The only two Zombies I know are Bill and Hillary Clinton they never seen to die no matter how sick they get !! Ha Ha………..

  14. I watched Night of the Living Dead growing up. I remember watching it with my brother and a baby sitter near halloween, 1977. I know it wekk because my sister was born the following year. So I remember it well. It scared, the shit, out of me. Since then I have been waiting and training for the ZA. By the time I was old enough. I had the tactics down and the weapons purchased to accomplish my mission. The 28 Days Later came along and ruined everything. I was going to have to be faster and more mobile. You can’t fight fast zombies. You can only outmaneuver or hide from them.

    But that’s the point, the ZA has taught me what the USMC and my LE career did not. Sure, I got the hard skills but my survival skills were sorely lacking. I’ve hunted deer, fished and even tried my hand a growing a garden in my backyard. But the ZA taught me I really would not survive 30 days. And that’s what it is for. The ZA is a metaphor from something bigger. Something infinitely worse. So if by inspiring a new generation of hunters and survival skills enthusiasts is all the ZA accomplishes, it was worth the hype, the green camo, green AR-15’s and zombie ammunition.

    This post does a good job in stating the obvious, that zombies, as the movies portray them, are not a physical reality. so it fill the niche to say what can’t really be said in polite company. That walking around and preaching the end of the world, economic collapse, etc will get you suspicious looks. So preparing for the ZA is a game, it’s fun and besides, the wife thinks it’s all just that. For fun. Or is it……….

  15. Please, dear God, make it all just stop.

    I’m with Hannibal, it was kind of funny for about a day or two, seven years ago.

    But now the Zombie stuff with gun guys just makes us all look like we have mental problems.

    Enough already.

    Zombies are fake, stupid, and wasting time on them is ridiculous.

    The real evil is very, very real.

    Deal with that.

    • Paul, I think you and Hannibal would get along quite well. As for the rest of us…

      “Zombies are fake, stupid, and wasting time on them is ridiculous….The real evil is very, very real.”

      You are correct that zombies are fake and stupid. To waste time thinking they are not would in fact be stupid. To spend time arguing against using them as stand-ins for what you accurately describe as “real evil is very, very real” does not seem a logical step.

      I am sure each and every reader here could enter their own name for that very real evil, and many would be surprised by the responses, but until there is a consensus on that point and until we are ready and willing to set up training and competition course using those concepts as targets, why would we not be willing to train and enjoy the shooting sports by using a non-specific metaphor such as zombies, for which you can conveniently and in your own mind substitute whatever group you personally feel qualifies as a zombie threat to your survival?

      Have you ever seen a shooting competition where the targets represented members of Congress, or an ethnic or religious minority? Probably never will, but those are the groups many would consider the true and real very, very evil. Zombies, although they represent what we fear as apocalyptic evil, are non-controversial stand ins.

      The resistance of some to this benign fantasy really boggles my mind.

    • +1

      Zombie Apocalyps preppers just make the Antis feel secure in their statements that all gun owners are future spree killers.

      • Really?

        Because in my experience, the folks over at http://zombiehunters.org/ are more eloquent and more knowledgeable than any other firearms or self sufficiency site I’ve visited in the last 10 years.

        Even on TTAG, we have professional liberal haters, grumpy-old-men, and OFWG who all also add fuel to the fire of the anti’s stereotyping.

      • “Zombie Apocalyps preppers just make the Antis feel secure in their statements that all gun owners are future spree killers.”

        We are not actually discussing here apocalypse preppers, zombie or otherwise, “Not that there’s anything wrong with that!”

        This was about using the interest in zombies to get people active in shooting who would not otherwise have the incentive if only surrounded by OFWG FUDDs and/or Seal Team and S.W.A.T. wannabes.

        As for: “…make the Antis feel secure in their statements that all gun owners are future spree killers.” I believe the intent of the Second Amendment was to make all the statist anti Second Amendment types fear deep down in their souls that if they overstepped their Constitutional limitations the gun owners would become spree killers – with the antis as the main targets. I do not think they would be remiss in this concern. Meantime we have to practice by shooting at zombies because targets that look like our Progressive politicians would make us look crazy.

        Yes I’m paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?

    • The meme of Zombies serves, just barely subconciously, to play upon the reality that preparing for self-defense involving multiple aggressors, often a reality in home-invasions and muggings-by-gang, involves the fears of particular types of people. Since it is politically incorrect to identify your most likely antagonist by nationality, religion, or ethnicity, ‘zombies’ serves the role of taking that unpleasant identity out of the equation. It becomes a question that need not be answered. Has the government made you expect an islamist attack? You don’t need to get into arguments about ethnicity or religion in order to prepare. Just train for ‘zombies.’ This takes the distasteful ‘who will your attackers be?’ question out of the game, reducing the politics. To that extent, the meme is probably beneficial. It’s also sort of an inside joke, since essentially no one believes in the kind of zombies described below in the Oxford English Dictionary’s historical survey of the word, a description that accords with what people well know, actually:

      “1.1 In the West Indies and southern states of America, a soulless corpse said to have been revived by witchcraft; formerly, the name of a snake-deity in voodoo cults of or deriving from West Africa and Haiti.

         1819 R. Southey Hist. Brazil III. xxxi. 24 Zombi, the title whereby he [chief of Brazilian natives] was called, is the name for the Deity, in the Angolan tongue.‥ NZambi is the word for Deity.    1872 Schele de Vere Americanisms 138 Zombi, a phantom or a ghost, not unfrequently heard in the Southern States in nurseries and among the servants.    1886 Century Mag. Apr. 815/2 This spiritual influence or potentate is the recognized antagonist and opposite of Obi, the great African manitou or deity, or him whom the Congoes vaguely generalize as Zombi.    1929 W. B. Seabrook Magic Island ii. ii. 94 At this very moment, in the moonlight, there are zombies working on this island.    1943 R. Ottley New World 46 Adding the zombies, jumbies, and obeah men to the gallery of voodoo characters.    1966 G. Greene Comedians iv. 104 Luckily no one dared move on the roads at night; it was the hour when only zombies worked or else the Tontons Macoute.    1979 J. Rhys Smile Please 30 Zombies were black shapeless things. They could get through a locked door and you heard them walking up to your bed. You didn’t see them, you felt their hairy hands round your throat.    1984 Times 26 Jan. 12/6 A zombie, as every schoolboy knows, is a person who has been killed and raised from the dead by sinister voodoo priests called bocors.”

    • I agree in part with both sides of the issue. From one practical point of view the claim to be ‘practicing for the ZA’ is largely a place-holder phrase used for social convenience, standing for “it’s none of your business whether what I expect is an islamist terror incident, the onslaught of a Salvadorean gang, or the sudden appearance of the Sinaloa cartel. It’s about Zombies. Get it?” This rhetorical device takes the distasteful ‘who will your attackers be? Are you an Islamophobe?’ question out of the game, reducing irrelevant and usually insincere political rhetoric from critiques of self- and home-defense training. To that extent, the meme “prepare for the zombie apocalypse” is probably beneficial.

      To the extent the term of convenience, Zombies, connotes instead an extended fantasy which incidentally has live ammunition attached to it, I very much dislike use of the term. That there is actual ammunition on store shelves with names like “Zombie Max” and Zombie-labelled sighting devices is certainly an invitation to despise a manufacturer’s conscienceless effort to sell, on a par with the infamous Joe Camel.

      • To the extent that I have perused the Internet for information regarding zombie cults, the majority of folks seem to be interested in some sort of childish zombie role-playing. I have no time for these sorts whatsoever. Who wants to spend/waste any part of your adult life pretending to be an undead and mindless cannibal?

        To those who choose the defense against zombies role, that is perhaps a fertile ground of new converts for real-world shooting and self defense using Zombie Apocalypse fantasies.

        More than that is really reading too much into this.

  16. I think we are doing a disservice (a potentially deadly one, at that) by treating any shooting sports as a game. Taking 3 inexperienced shooters, arming all three of them simultaneously, and putting them in an unfamiliar course with moving targets that look like humans is asking for trouble. I am more than ok with people having fun with shooting courses, but making it like a video game has the potential to dilute the deadly seriousness that comes with firearms handling. You have to start with fundamentals before you can get people on a dynamic range, especially if there are multiple simultaneous shooters.

    • I believe I made a specific effort in the post to indicate that people should train with AirSoft, Simunitions or paintball before being involved with live fire.

      The three-man team competition was a suggestion that may not be realistic in competition. Since I do not know what is involved in officiating these events I would leave that to the experts.

      And by the way, I have seen a few videos of 3-gun competitions. (Thanks, Nick.) How exactly are those NOT set up like First Person Shooter video games?

    • It seems realistic to assume that endless training and competitions (to view, not do…. really) encourage a one-sided view of things, as if the ‘defensive’ use of guns is a matter of taking out as many targets as you can, pulling the trigger fast, and counting your hits. That isn’t the reality in stopping ‘a bad guy with a gun.’ Those few who get involved (usually vicariously) having only a marginal hold on reality are indeed led to one-way fantasies. When they lose it, they do indeed look for a place where that one-way feature is almost guaranteed, the infamous ‘no guns zone.’ I’m fairly sick of the fast-trigger-finger worship: I’d rather young guys watch a Hickok45 clip than yet another Miculek blasto bit. Nothing against Miculek, but the art of really fast trigger pulling was obsolesced long ago by the machine gun.

      I ascribe the all-too-frequent police shootings of upset but otherwise innocuous people to the same “one way” mindset. The wish to have only safe successful gun fights leads to a self-fulfilling reality. If you pull the trigger before the other guy actually has a gun up, you are….wait for it….guaranteed to ‘win.’ Just like at Newtown, without the ‘suicide at the end’ bit. When three-gun scenarios involve four ‘figuring out how to avoid shooting’ moments for every trigger pull, I’ll find it more than a way to encourage “burn it up and buy more” living.

  17. There has been alot of criticism surround the fact that kids watch too many video games & live in the lands of make believe. This fact has been considered in the number of youth now shooting up the schools they attend. Then some of the adults resort to the Zombie craze?? I wonder where the kids ever got that idea?!?!

    I believe it was Taurus that laser engraved Zombie Slayer on the cylinder of one of their revolvers,,,, and Hornady has Zombie Killer bullets too,,,, I wonder how big of a three ring circus a prosecuting attorney will turn that into?

    Sorry,,,,, I refrain. YMMV.

  18. Honestly, I’m conflicted on the issue…

    I’m all for having fun, and to each his own, so roll with it if that’s your thing. I don’t mind a zombie flick or TWD once in a while myself. I can see the fun in it. Not that old and boring quite yet. (Although the shows are almost always completely devoid of any firearm reality, but hey – it’s not supposed to be reality, so cool)

    I’m all for new firearm enthusiasts, so as long as the newbies learn the proper respect/safe-handling/ responsibility for firearms – and know that zombies aren’t (nor even going to be) reality – then cool with me if that was their segue to learn about the wonderful world of firearms, and join us in the fight to protect the 2ND.

    On the other hand…

    I do cringe a little when i go to a gun show and I’m spammed with silly zombie stuff and the guy at the ammo table tries to tell me how great these zombie bullets are for only 29.99 for a box of 20, and how they are just the thing I need (before he realizes from the look on my face, I’m not a newbie/zombie dude)

    Part of me finds it to be a bit mall-ninja-ish, so naturally repel.

    Part of me wonders if it doesn’t draw the wrong people in. Firearms after all, are a serious thing. We, who know that and understand that and practice safety and responsibility can easily have a little fun with it, but man there are some strange freakin people out there that seem to get a little goofy with shit sometimes. You wonder if they don’t take it a little too seriously, if you know what I mean.

    So I just watch and laugh… maybe cringe once in a while… and maybe join in for a laugh and a hoot every once in a while too. I did a cool zombie shoot at the range once with AK’s, AR’s and Shotties and it was certainly fun. The headshot element made it a little different/challenging.

    I guess to me there really are very few absolutes in life. Not a black and white dude. It’s all shades of gray…. even in the darkest corner of space, there are protons. So make of that what you will.

    • You make some very good points, and some of the crap that appears in movies is what I would hope being brought under the wing of real POTG would dispel. I watched a particularly bad zombie movie just last week in which they fought off an assault with a tripod mounted Ma Deuce they were pushing around in a plastic shopping cart!

      “Part of me wonders if it doesn’t draw the wrong people in. Firearms after all, are a serious thing. We who know that and understand and practice safety and responsibility can easily have a little fun with it, but man there are some strange freakin people out there that seem to get a little goofy with shit sometimes.”

      My argument here is the same as with gun control and criminals. They can and will get guns whether we want them to or not. Why not use every possible tool to get those strange people into situations where they can be taught safety and responsibility with the tools they would otherwise not respect. The faces on the targets or the layout of the scenarios is meant only to entertain while educating.

      Some people are only entertained by pretending they are Jason Bourne or some Spec-Ops team member. Fine. let them go for it and I hope they are good at it. For an awful lot of us that level of intensity is not something we willingly seek out. If it were “Zero Dark Thirty” would have a bigger box office than “Zombieland.”

      • “they fought off an assault with a tripod mounted Ma Deuce they were pushing around in a plastic shopping cart!”

        LOL, now that’s entertaining! 😉 You’re either laughing with em or laughing at em, but I don’t take anything that’s not serious – too seriously anymore… so all good to me. (Until it aint of course, then I’ll cross that bridge)

    • While it is at least theoretically possible to crate a virulent biological agent that would cause a pandemic lethal to a significant percentage of the population – the Black Death killed about 30% of Europeans. The Spanish flue killed over 40 million world-wide, there is literally no real-world possibility of any disease vector that would recreate the symptoms we attribute to zombies. The closest any would come would be the rabies virus and it a long incubation time and is inevitably fatal in weeks if not treated immediately. The concept of large groups of rabies-infected people taking over whole cities or countries is ludicrous.

      As a metaphor for real world-altering evil, however, zombies are perfect.

  20. The zombie thing is no sillier than the post-apocalyptic Mad Max prepper thing. There’s a lot of anxiety out there, and people are just trying to deal with it somehow. We’ve all got a little Walter Mitty in us, especially gun guys. The same guys who laugh at zombie crap will take a “carbine class” as if they’re going to be dropping Tangoes in the ‘Stan.

    • “The same guys who laugh at zombie crap will take a “carbine class” as if they’re going to be dropping Tangoes in the ‘Stan”

      LOFL 🙂 That might be one of the best lines of all time.

    • Thank you for this.

      Fantasy is fantasy. Weekend warriors who hderp it up running fake operations as operators, all while looking down their noses at the zombie prepping people are so ironic it would make a hipster’s head explode.

  21. I thought the Zombies were the reanimated corpses of Xtian believers who have risen because Gabriel’s Trumpet sounded.

    On a lighter note, there’s speculation that the vampire myths were really about people who got bit by rabid bats, and started acting rabid.

    • Rich, see my response a few inches up where I discuss rabies as the closest possible real-world version of a zombie virus.

      Why would Xtian believers respond to Gabriel’s trumpet?

  22. In defense of Dan’s article, the government did hold a disaster/mass casualty training event that was zombie oriented. Whether it was deemed practical at the time due to the bird flu/swine flu scare or because the government just wanted to de-sensitize its foot soldiers to killing the common folk in the event of an uprising, the government saw a purposeful utility to zombies.

    • Mike, in defense of Dan who may get enough crap on his own, he is the TTAG editor of this article written by me, Cliff H.

      I thank him for his mild but appropriate editorial corrections and RF for having the balls to post this for me.

  23. If you are annoyed by Zombie-related items and media, YOU ARE TOO OLD.

    Sorry I had to say it. People need to lighten up when it comes to zombies. We all know they are not real. Don’t like it? Don’t watch it or buy merchandise related to zombies…

    Yes, its really that simple.

    • Do you? Honestly? Please tell me for a fact you know ZOMBIES ARE NOT REAL. Then go out and tell all your zombie prepper friends that. Because they need to hear it. I have personally lost some friends, because one day they watched the Dawn of the Dead remake and then they had to come convince me that the threat is real, and that Im not doing enough. They became scary and insulting.

      • Do you really miss having friends who are that out of touch with reality?

        Hell, I’ve written off a sister whose neurosis is less problematic than that.

        I’m here promoting the zombie concept as a recruiting and training tool and even I would laugh in the face of anyone I knew who came to me convinced that zombies are or could ever be real.

        There are many real evils in the world – communism promoted by the Soviet Union used to be one of them, fascism before that, at least one current -ism (if you discount the socialism that the Obama regime is trying to push) that has the potential if unchecked to reach pandemic and pathogenic proportions. Zombies as an analog to give us focus is not a bad thing.

        The major and recurring themes in all zombie fiction is the Politically Correct failure to recognize the seriousness of the problem soon enough to combat it effectively, and the woeful lack of the average citizen to decisively confront and deal with true evil staring him in the face.

  24. Speaking of zombies, did anyone ever hear what caused that Florida beltway attack…..I mean, definitively?

  26. On a gun blog, I assumed that “zombies” referred to the countless masses, gangs or neighbors, that will come pillaging your food stores three-four weeks after the shtf…a sort of euphemism.

    • Good enough analogy, if that’s what works for you.

      I suspect it would be difficult to tell the difference between desperate people who had not eaten in a few weeks and a zombie assault, except…hungry people are not diseased and will not infect you with their hunger. While it may become a necessity for survival (“Lucifer’s Hammer” – Pournel & Niven) it will never be so easy to gun down people who are starving as opposed to infectious zombies.

      For a real-world example of societal response to apocalyptic starvation read any historical account of the siege of Leningrad. I particularly recommend “Leningrad, Tragedy of a City Under Siege, 1941-44” by Anna Reid.

  27. For me the problem is that because all non-crazy people know zombies aren’t real, the kind of people who would be drawn into shooting because of zombies will consider it to be a game played with expensive toys. Not a hobby, not a calling, not a cause.

    As such, they will drift away in search of other toys rather than fight to protect them. Worse, anyone who looks in from the outside might not realize that we know it’s not real. The only thing worse than people thinking we’re stupid for playing zombie games is people who think we’re crazy for playng real zombies.

    • Consider the source. What do we care about their opinions – they already think we are certifiable just because we want to exercise our natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. Will they think we are more crazy because we shoot at fantasy zombie targets? Doubtful.

      The more we piss them off and the more crazy they think we are, the happier I am. They have a political agenda approaching dogma that requires them to consider us the crazy ones. Let them beat their heads against the wall of crying about our zombie games.

      You want to talk about crazy people? During the Desert Storm campaign I read an actual account of a Liberal politician who was complaining bitterly about the shark teeth painted on A-10 Warthogs being cartoonish and not taking the business of war and killing people seriously enough. And you’re worried about what they think of us?

    • You’re making a lot of assumptions, probably not knowing any actual preppers.

      Your post reminds me about people who have never actually known any gay people.. who rant about gay people like self proclaimed experts.

  28. The zombie thing never interested me. The other thing that concerns me is that if I was into the ZA and I was involved in a self-defense shooting and it went to court, I would not want to have to deal with addressing my fascination with zombies if Is brought up by the prosecution. Sure I could make all the arguments about how zombies are not real, yada yada yada but it is better for the issue to not even come up. That cinches the deal for me and I have not and will not buy a single zombie related product. If you are into it, fine. It is not for me.

    • I have so far and intend to continue living my life as a rational human being making intelligent decisions for my own survival. I refuse to order my life and actions around fears of what legal maneuvers some over-zealous prosecutor might do in the event I am forced to defend myself or anyone else.

      That same prosecutor will undoubtedly find my Call of Duty collection, Half Life 2, etc. and use that even if they can’t find a box of green tipped anti-Zombie ammo. If we capitulate to fears of what the antis MIGHT do then we have already lost. My advice, grow a pair and go live your life. Shoot at zombies if that’s what makes you happy. They are going to paint you as a gun-crazed potential spree killer no matter what you do.

      • Cliff,

        Grow a pair and go live your life? So much for civil discourse. You asked “What exactly is your problem with these artifacts”. I told you the two reasons why I chose not to be involved in this fad. If you don’t want to hear the answer then don’t ask the question. It seems the purpose of your post and all of your replies is to convince everyone else to your way of thinking not to explore the reasons for or against participating in this activity. I am fine with people who do this and think differently than I do. I am not trying to convince you or anyone else that they should come to my way of thinking.

        As armed citizens we make choices every day that can affect our physical safety and legal survivability in the case of a DGU. For example if someone cuts you off in traffic, do you just let it go or do you flip them off and chase them? Not letting it go can cause you to end up in a fight you didn’t need to be in. It also can cause you to be seen as an initial aggressor and if it escalates to violence you are in for a tougher legal fight.

        My choices of not playing the zombie game and not needing to retaliate for every little wrong someone does to me are my lifestyle choices It doesn’t have anything to do with the existence or size of my testicles. If those choices are not hurting you then don’t judge me or criticize me for them. I’ll do the same for you.

  29. “…In all of history, as we know it, no living thing has ever died and been “re-animated.”

    What would Jesus have to say about this?

    • This is not actually a discussion of religious mythology. I suggest when you see Jesus you ask HIM that question. Until then, if you have physical proof that my statement was in error rather than apocryphal commentary from the Bible, we can talk.

      I cannot and will not attempt to refute the story of Jesus rising from the dead on the third day, however – there is no solid medical evidence that he was actually dead when placed in that tomb, nor is there a chemical analysis of what was on that sponge that he was given to drink.

      And even if one were to stipulate to the account as being true, it is ONE person in the history of mankind and that ONE person would have to be also stipulated as the Son of God, hardly representative of the average person, and who, having risen, was hardly a zombie.

      • Back in those days, before science had nailed everything down so rigidly, miracles were almost routine. Jesus was trying to teach us how to do miracles, but apparently we weren’t ready to learn how. And then when he got executed, he resurrected enough of himself to ascend to heaven and lick his wounds. Meanwhile, some of his denser, magnetic Will essence couldn’t ascend with him and got left behind. Well, it turns out that everybody already has the power to do miracles and resurrect themselves, but to do so they have to expel all the death-seeking spirit essence from their being.

        But don’t pay any attention to me, I’m crazy. I believe I’m Jesus’s crazy brother who got locked away in the basement and nobody’s been allowed to talk about.

        My Presidential campaign is my Master’s thesis in the School of Metaphysics or the School of Sorcery, depending on your POV. 😉

  30. I think his point might be that we can’t look at Christ’s resurrection as a proven fact. That’s why faith is so important. He may or may not be a believer but I won’t take that statement as an intentional trolling of Christianity.

    • The way I understand it, Jesus ascended, and we were supposed to figure out how to follow him. Well, he left the part out about how to do so exactly. But I’m crazy, and I believe I have new information. I believe I’m Jesus’ crazy brother who got locked away in the basement and nobody’s been allowed to talk about. And that hew information is that there has been a great misunderstanding about the Divine Will and how reality works. But either way you cut it, the bottom line is that the fastest route to Individual Freedom is for the individual who wants Freedom to be Free. How can anyone “lead” those people anywhere, when they’re all marching to the beat of their own personal drummer? 😉

      I know, it sounds stupid simple, but what else is the goal?

      Free Will is God’s Will.
      <a href="http://rich_grise.tripod.com/cgi-bin/index.pl"Write me in in 2016!

      • It is written: Those who follow the Commandments of God and have the Testimony of Jesus will see Heaven. Simple really. Just read the Bible and it all becomes clear.

    • I’m on the side of – Who can disprove the fact that Christ rose from the dead? After all the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Saying that, I think, that all that is irrelevant in that the author precludes that reanimation is an evil thing as opposed to prophesy (in Our Lord’s case anyway). Just sayin…

      • I’m not entirely sure how this devolved into a discussion of Christianity, although I half suspected someone might take exception to the “No one ever brought back to life” concept. I’m just glad it waited until this late in the discussion to side track from the issue and intent.

        I fail to see how the concept of a resurrected Christ, Son of God, has anything in common with the fictional concept of evil zombies destroying humanity. There may be some argument made for the zombie plague as the work of one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but that is for another discussion, and perhaps more appropriate on some other blog site.

    • PW,

      Your post is kinda hanging out there and out of context, but you are exactly right. This post, and the comments about nothing dead having come back to life are in no way intended to support or refute Christianity. Were I to attempt to Troll on any subject (heaven forbid) I would certainly not pick THAT, it would be a perfect way to totally obscure the points I was trying to make.

      My ex-wife is deeply religious Russian Orthodox and my step-son is an atheist. They clashed frequently until I advised him that the surest way to make a life-long and potentially deadly enemy was to attempt to prove with logic the error of what someone wholeheartedly believes on faith.

      I live by my word and follow that advice myself EXCEPT in regards to gun control activists and Progressive politicians. I don’t care if they hate me.

      I posted above as to how Jesus might be considered the exception to the rule – one in how many billions?

  33. My only fear about the zombie equipment craze is what could happen if you used something labeled ” for zombie use only” in a real world DGU, the prosecutor could have fun with that at your expense. (remember the caution against using hand loaded ammo instead of factory loads).

    That being said, have you noticed how zombie behavior resembles certain real life folks: irrational, unstoppable, moving like an infestation to take over, forcing reasonable people to retreat and live in fear…. just saying!

    • If you’re worried about what weapon you can use during a home invasion, you’re living in the wrong state imo.

    • If you find yourself being prosecuted following a DGU EVERYTHING the prosecutor says or does will be at your expense. The important thing to remember is that you are there and alive to be prosecuted. If you limit your defense options to what you think an over-zealous prosecutor might approve of you may never see your day on the stand, which will be just fine with the prosecutor and all the other antis out there.

      They are happy to go on about “If it saves just one child…” but they could give a shit whether or not it saves YOU.

    • A little cryptic there, ensitue. What are you trying to say?

      I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be, a (shudder) journalist. I wrote this some for fun and some to share an opinion. If you did not think it was relevant or worth your time, you should have just moved on.

      • ” Cliff H commented on In Praise of the Zombie Apocalypse.
        … in response to ensitue:
        …… cliff a tiff on your part does not denote concern on mine. next time make your journalism relevant
        ……… A little cryptic there, ensitue. What are you trying to say?”
        It sounds to me like he’s complaining about you complaining about something. 😉

  36. I like TTAG because it often serves to remind me that there are a LOT of other gun guys out there I would not get along with. And I am definitely a gun guy. I think I’ve got enough ammo stashed away, I reload, I have a gun for most applications, and I enjoy just about every type of shooting there is.

    I still firmly believe it’s a generational thing.

    I don’t know of many men my age or younger who can’t understand my thoughts on zombies etc. or at least understand the logic behind some of my gun purchases.

    There aren’t as many FUDDs under 30 for instance… because hunting is harder to do now and the way information flows, there aren’t many young people who are compartmentalized like older folks. At work, younger people will all tell inside jokes about viral videos while older folks are clueless.

    The new generation does not just sit in front of the TV like the older generation is apt to do. We get our news online, pick and choose our entertainment, and generally stay much more connected to pop culture and niche interests.

    I thought the OP was brilliant, and with the exception of a few points, I agreed.

    Making shooting -fun- is what will boost the popularity of shooting sports and make shooting more mainstream again. This is why I love KJW and her videos.

    Some of you guys take yourselves way too seriously. I know it’s harsh to say this, but I wish we could fast forward about 20 years and let some of these “get off my lawn” types pass on to make way for the next generation.

    The day Colion Noir is president of the NRA, we’ve won.

    • “I thought the OP was brilliant, and with the exception of a few points, I agreed.”

      Bear, thank you for that. As an official OFWG (64 next month) I have to say your generational comments were accurate.

      I would be interested to know which of the points you failed to agree with so I could give your thoughts valid consideration. Unlike some people, I do not assume that just because I have an opinion discussion is closed.

  37. Zombie apocolypse in role play – yes. If its paintball

    Real ammo – never. Pigs or puppets not worth the downside.

    Newbies buying real guns – always a plus. Who cares what they shoot at. Bullseye, tannerite, 30 point buck… The 4 rules always apply. Teach & leave a legacy. I like to shoot skeet. Paint it green and call it zombie breath and I’ll still go 20 fer 25 or better.

    My oldest son is 6. His Red Rider has taken down low flying Dragons and Chicago Bears (Packer Fans obv) many times. He loves to shoot. I’ll squash the reality part eventually. You know about how it’s not cool to shoot low flying dragons…

  38. “… and my step-son is an atheist. They clashed frequently …”
    I’d like to ask some Atheist – ANY Atheist – why is it so important to you that there not be a Deity? The way I see it, each (Atheists and Dogmatists) is only allowing themselves to see half (or less) of What Is.

  39. I feel that any way we can get more citizens involved in the shooting sports is one more for our side , that would be another vote for gun friendly politicians , possibly another person to become a Patriot , to stand and be ready. Be prepared and ready. Keep your powder dry.

  41. the futile combat in Korea and Viet Nam

    You’re a dumb ass that most likely is a product of a typical 4 year long indoctrination program called the US university system.

    Please tell me why keeping 60+ million South Koreans out of the nightmare concentration camp of North Korea for 60+ years is an act of “futility”. Gawd you’re F’ing stupid.

    • They were futile wars like the one in afghanistan because congress wouldnt let us win. BTW I am a former Infantry Officer. If the damned gov’t is going to put people like me in harms way, then by god let us do our job and get out of our way.

        • Its called victory over the enemy. However that was not possible in Vietnam because we were not allowed to cross the border into North Vietnam. Imagine if congress had told Lincoln he couldn’t send Grant or Sherman into the South to defeat the Confederacy.

          • “> ” congress wouldnt let us win. ” Please define “win.”;
            Its called victory over the enemy. However that was not possible in Vietnam because we were not allowed to cross the border into North Vietnam. Imagine if congress had told Lincoln he couldn’t send Grant or Sherman into the South to defeat the Confederacy.””

            You haven’t answered my question. Please define “win.” What exactly would have had to have happened, what would the situation on the ground have to have been in order to say, “Mission Accomplished, we Won, we can go home victorious heroes now.?”

            All you’ve offered is another rerun of the same old tired pseudopatriotic propaganda slogans.

            • The Gov’t of NV surrendered, were destroyed or actively sought an cessation of hostilities. Kissinger didn’t care how long the peace talks took. He was put up at the finest hotel in Paris with all expenses paid.

    • Wow, so much hostility!

      “You’re a dumb ass that most likely is a product of a typical 4 year long indoctrination program called the US university system.”

      No, sir. I am an auto-didact who never subjected myself to the abuse of a university degree program. I am also a life long conservative and proponent of the burgeoning Tea Party.

      “Please tell me why keeping 60+ million South Koreans out of the nightmare concentration camp of North Korea for 60+ years is an act of ‘futility’.”

      In a long article about zombies this is the particle you want to complain about? Have to wonder who’s f’ing stupid here. You could have simply asked me civilly what the fuck I was talking about.

      For the record, I was born a few short months before the Korean Conflict began. I had a brother in law who was shot in the hip by a North Korean while patrolling the DMZ in the ’60s and who spent the rest of his life in pain on a 60% disability. I have a nephew who was stationed in South Korea, married a Korean woman and I now have two half-Korean grand-nephews.

      My comment about the Korean and Viet Nam wars being futile was based on over 100,000 American servicemen being killed, and so very many more being wounded, in those theaters with no victorious outcome. Korea ended in a truce that is still unresolved. In Viet Nam we ran home with our tail between our legs and the victory went to the commies.

      Our troops have kept the South Koreans safe for over 60 years, absolutely right, but a stalemate against North Korea is hardly a feather in our military or political caps. And yes, I know that China was the reason for this less than stellar outcome, but it was a stalemate nevertheless.

      I hope on the street, when you misinterpret the intentions of someone you run across and DO NOT KNOW, you do not over-react in such an aggressive and hostile manner.

      And the commenters here were saying that the zombie thing would make anti-2A types think gun guys were crazies. Are the zombies really necessary for that? Apparently not.

      • ” In Viet Nam we ran home with our tail between our legs and the victory went to the commies.”

        WRONG! The victory went to the Vietnamese. Today, they’re doing rather well, thank you very much:
        http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/12/taking-stock-july-2013-an-update-on-vietnams-recent-economic-development-key-findings

        (and that’s just one link from `google vietnam economy 2013`)

        Why should we expect anything different if we let, say, the Afghanis have Afghanistan, the Pakis have Pakistan, and so on?

        End the wars NOW! http://rich_grise.tripod.com/cgi-bin/index.pl How many more will die or be crippled in the next two years?

        • Guys we didn’t lose the war. We were not allowed to win and in the end congress said pack your bags and come home. Don forget we left in 73 and South Vietnam lost about a year and a half later after the Democrat traitor’s in congress who wouldn’t let us win cut off all aid to SV thus insuring their hero’s in the North would take over the whole country. Vietnam is still in poverty because of the communists so I don’t think anyone really won.

          • What would it have meant to “win?” Install a puppet dictatorship? Give the Vietnamese their country back? Oh, yeah, that second one, that’s the one we settled on, right? Did they all die because we weren’t there? Can we learn anything from this?

            • Rich,
              Unfortunately you suffer from the same delusion most americans do. You believe the whole world wants freedom and democracy. Its the furthest thing from the truth. The have no concept of democracy. Their societies only seem to function under a gov’t that demands complete compliance.
              Jimmy carter learned nothing. He was a typical democrat that stabbed an ally in the back which resulted in the rise of radical islam and all of the troubles we have with it now.

              • “You believe the whole world wants freedom and democracy.”

                Thanks for telling me what I believe. Whew! If you hadn’t helped out, I might never have known! </heavy sarc>

                Every living thing wants Freedom. ‘Democracy’ is at best a red herring, at worst mob rule, and no sane person wants that. (America is a Constitutional Republic, you know.)

                But I DO know that people DON”T want to be murdered in their sleep by American stealth bombs, no matter how noble the cause.

              • You are very welcome Rich. Glad I could help.
                However you are delusional if you believe every living thing wants freedom. Very few people in america really want freedom (in the American historical way) and the rest of the world doesnt want it either. Why else would they tollerate and support this growing welfare and police state we have in the US? And keep voting in the people enslaving them. People all over the world want cradle to grave nanny states where they are controlled and they give up even their basic right to self defense for a delusion of security. And free lunches and free money, legal drugs etc etc etc. People just no longer want to have to make any decisions about life anymore and want someone else tell them what they have to do.

                As far as dying from a bomb well bad guys have to get whacked one way or another and its not like irt was even in Vietnam where carpet bombing was used to make sure the target was hit and they oven still missed. Guess you preffer the jack booted thugs who call themselves cops to kick in doors in the middle of the night shooting dogs, kids and anyone else they see and then say OOPs my bad we read the address wrong.

    • “Please tell me why keeping 60+ million South Koreans out of the nightmare concentration camp of North Korea for 60+ years is an act of “futility”.”

      It cost the taxpayers (i.e., YOU) billions and billions of dollars, got a whole passel of guys killed, and accomplished exactly zero. Just like Obama’s wars now. There is no mission statement, no declaration – the official excuse is “to keep us safe from terrorist attack” but that’s ludicrous on its face – it’s American aggression that’s CAUSING the “threat of terrorist attack.” And it’s a handy-dandy rationalization for Big Brother to murder whoever he wants to by just labeling you a “terrorist” or worse, saying that you “associated” with some questionable group or whatever.

      In any case, war is bad. People who make war are evil people. People who even CONDONE war are bad people.

      There is no excuse for war, especially now, when EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD HAS A TELEPHONE! What are they trying to accomplish, besides enslaving us all?

      Write me in in 2016: http://rich_grise.tripod.com/cgi-bin/index.pl I’ll end the wars on my first day!

      • Rich,
        Call me a bad person then. Sometime bad people have to be taken out. But if people like me are sent to war make sure its for a good reason and let us do our job. People like me are the last people that want war because we are the ones who will die or come back wounded physically or mentally.

        • “But if people like me are sent to war make sure its for a good reason”

          Of course. I agree 100%. But the last time there was a good reason to fight a foreign war was to stop Hitler. But everything the government has been doing since then looks like it has been designed to turn America into a playground for Hitler’s disciples.

          • Wars, police actions etc are also used to protect vital national interests. Access to energy, blockaded sea lanes etc. Things that would hurt this country badly. Talking to bad guys is often useless as all they know is brut force. The first gulf war was caused by a dumbass president that told saddam insane we wouldn’t be apposed to him taking over Kuwait. However this country should never have become so dependent on foreign oil to start with.

  42. I’m not much into the zombie craze past watching “The Walking Dead”, but that feral pig hunt sounds really fun. Too bad I live in one of the few states where there isn’t much of a problem with them. May need to take a vacation in the future.

  43. I like the Zombie craze. It lets people who want to be preppers without the name of prepper. Its like war gaming with lots of fun injected. Zombies are PC too, no risk of racism, sexism, or any other ism. It’s the safe enemy to talk about for those concerned with their safety. It’s also a fun self deprecating response to justify another gun purchase. You don’t have to buy zombie themed stuff to be in the zombie fun.

  44. Thank you Cliff, I thoroughly enjoyed this article, quite possibly one of the best I have read so far on TTAG. Your thoughts on the benefits of the zombie fad very closely echo my own. I kind of like the zombie meme in a light hearted, joking sense. Many of the programs, books and movies dedicated to the ZA are quite entertaining. I totally agree that if it gets people interested in firearms, self sufficiency and survival/preparedness, what harm can it be? Let the kids have fun.

    To all of the people that are saying that the ZA aficionados are making the Pro-2A crowd look like nut jobs with serious mental issues, intent on going on a shooting spree: what do you think they think about us already?

    On a totally different note, the Hornady Z-Max .223 ammo is fantastic for varmint hunting. I don’t care what color the box is.

  45. The Serpent and the Rainbow is a book written by ethnobotanist and researcher Wade Davis and published in 1985. He investigated Haitian Vodou and the process of making zombies. He studied ethnobotanical poisons, discovering their use in a reported case of a contemporary zombie, Clairvius Narcisse.

    The book presents the case of Clairvius Narcisse, a man who had been a zombie for two years, as showing that the zombification process was more likely the result of a complex interaction of tetrodotoxin, a powerful hallucinogen called Datura, and cultural forces and beliefs.

    According to the book, there is an assortment of ingredients in Haitian zombie powder including puffer fish, matter from a corpse (specifically to Davis’ adventure in Haiti, the bokor, a Haitian shaman, crushed the skull of a deceased infant that had been dead for a month or two, and added it to the poison), freshly killed blue lizards, a large dried toad (Bufo marinus) with a dried sea worm wrapped around it (prepared beforehand), “tcha-tcha” (Albizzia), and “itching pea” (pois grater, a species of Mucuna).

  46. Resurrection is only possible through the Power of God, which is not available to the Devil. His diabolical factotems, the Vodoo priests, have through sorcery created a facsimile of death and resurrection through various potions and natural toxins. But the result is only a shadow of life, the victims are lost souls with little awareness and no memory of their past life.

    By contrast, the Resurrection, when it comes will be a glorious occasion for all who love Christ and yearn for his return. Those who deny Christ will be burnt up by his arrival. The second resurrection will be for non believers, and will end in their permanent death in the lake of fire should they succumb to the further blandishments of the Devil.

    So who do you place your hopes in? What prophecies and predictions are you prepared to believe? Look to the Bible for answers as to who reveals the truth, and who is an inveterate liar. But either way, try to avoid Zombies. You might burn your fingers on your blazing hot barrel before you fight your way out.

  47. I agree with the author.

    Zombies are just a fun metaphor or representative image for an unknown worst case situation.

    It’s the one of the most rigorous situations you might have to prepare for.
    And if you ARE ready for zombies, What AREN’T you ready for?

    A horde style enemy that can pop up anywhere, is hard to destroy, has infectious implications and maybe a long term apocalyptic situation is the perfect set up for a prepper: you will need reliable and potentially accurate weapons and back ups, along with water sterilization, first aid supplies and lots of well thought out plans and alternative options, escape routes, light weight bug out gear, etc. etc.

    A person could prep endlessly in mind for zombies and they would likely be pretty well ready for natural disasters, governmental nationwide imprisonment/genocide, foreign invasion, infectious agents, starvation situations.

    It doesn’t cover everything. But it is quite exhaustive.

    ;D

  48. I firmly believe you are right. Get more guns into law-abiding citizen’s hands and stop the criminals in their tracks. The more that die, the fewer that come back from prison!

    Another thought, is that rehab hasn’t worked well in prisons. When do we finally quit funding that wasted effort. We should have statistics that point out that fallacy as well.

    Finally, the zombies of today are the voters that put crooked anti-gun, anti-constitution, politicians in office. If they and their families are threatened by being ostracized, they may finally shut up and vote with those that make sense. Or they just make new friends, that cancel their freedom of speech and ability to buy guns to protect themselves and their loved ones.

    There is a cost to actions, and the enablers of anti-gun, anti-constitution, voters needs to be made plainer, Personally I have cut my relationships to only those that make sense and told the others why they are no longer considered by me, to be critical thinkers.

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