I’m sorry, WTF? Spree killer James Holmes used a Remington 870 Wingmaster shotgun, a Smith & Wesson AR-15 modern home defense black assault rifle and two Glock .40s for his Aurora rampage. An AK-47 didn’t come into it. And besides, our soldiers don’t carry AK-47s. So is the President saying our soldiers should carry AKs? Anyway . . . “I, like most Americans, believe that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual the right to bear arms,” the CIC told the National Urban League convention in New Orleans. “I think we recognize the traditions of gun ownership that passed on from generation to generation. That hunting and shooting are part of a cherished national heritage . . .
But I also believe that a lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals. That they belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities. I believe the majority of gun owners would agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons, and we should check someone’s criminal record before they can check out a gun seller.
You mean buy a gun? That box has been well and truly ticked Mr President. But let’s get emotional about it . . .
We must also understand that when a child opens fire on other children, there’s a hole in his heart that no government can fill.
A) James Holmes wasn’t a child. B) OMG! The government can’t fill a hole in someone’s heart? You mean there are actual honest-to-God limits to what government can do? Who’d a thunk it?
Rest assured: this is not the assault weapons ban that the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence is looking for. Meanwhile, by trying to play it straight down the middle—without a clue about what he was talking about—Mr. Obama has screwed the proverbial pooch.
NRA email blast in three, two, one . . .
Does he know that they do, do background checks?
I don’t think he knows much when it comes to guns.
I mean, murder is illegal, but somehow that does not stop criminals from killing people. Why do people in government think that by banning access to a type of firearm they will make us safer? Criminals will circumvent these laws all day, and it leaves the rest of us at a disadvantage, unable to fight back. Even if these government initiatives have good intentions they end up hurting us in the end. I just wish these people would stop and think about that. Oh wait, that makes too much sense…..can’t have that.
God forbid these morons think! I don’t want them to think. Every time they think, we get a worse law, than the previous one they had already thought about. NO! DO NOT THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With the exception of person-to-person sales.
sssh
No need to clue them in.
And in a lot of states you have to run person to person sales, at least some of them, through an FFL.
My dude Barack is on a slippery slope. He is getting really close to losing my vote. The only thing saving him is his proposed National Affordable Defense Act also known as Obama Arms.
Same her Bob.
I voted for Obama but won’t this time around.
With Obama Care, F&F, and this mysterious ATT, I can not support him.
His executive orders giving more power to the EPA, and his closed door policy with DHS, and back for amnesty for illegals kind of sealed the deal for me.
I spoke to my parents who are strong Democrats, always have been. They realize he is pushing this country towards socialism and they are fine with it, they support it. I love them dearly but they who are college educated teachers agree he is dumping the constitution, and change the country towards socialism. They are very active in the Democratic party as well, and I was literately shocked.
Change the country towards socialism?
I’m willing to bet that half the people who use words like “socialism” and “communism” and “fascism” have no idea what those words even mean.
This is a socialist country, and has been for some time. Federal income tax; Medicare; Medicaid; Welfare; Food Assistance; Income Assistance; TARP & bank bailouts; Agriculture subsidies; housing assistance for single, half-black/half-indian, lesbian mothers; the list is endless.
Since the day the first social program was enacted, this has been a socialist state. It’s been bolstered and shored up by Democrats and Republicans alike.
Wake up. You’ve been had.
Thank you. I don’t know how many people I’ve tried to tell this.
I didn’t vote for obama in 2008 but favored him over john mccain…or mcsame (no offense to him).
What really sealed Obama’s fate as far as earning my vote is his continuation of bush era bullshit: secretive intelligence pseudowars, torture at gitmo and rendition, the NDAA (ruled unconstitutional), and escalating the war in afghanistan.
The real question i have is how stupid were people in 2008? Without catering to the disgusting appetites of the toxic Republican Party, Obama is not the messiah, never was, and never will be. “Change” was a illusion to cover up the fact that Obama is no different than bush: he’s a puppet to the current economic paradigm dependent on infinite growth, wars for profit to enrich the military industrial complex, and continued erosion of civil liberties in the name of security.
You strip the party away from the man and hordes of government dependent followers, Obama could easily fit into bush’s cowboy boots.
You Obama-voting folks have no business criticizing whatever nonsense this community organizer is perpetrating on the American public. His intentions were quite clear from the jump.
Seriously? The Defense Act is saving your vote? An act that will give the government more power to take away civil liberties? Did I type in the wrong site today?
Yea I think I am on the wrong site here. Is this the Huff Post. Odumbo has always been a commie,,period. Anyone not doing their homework, please don’t vote.
Obama and his brand of politics is a threat to our national security. Allowing national security leaks to happen and then doing nothing to root out the mole, the refusal to expose (or even talk about) radical Islamic extremists in America, botched BATFE operations, failure to act on Iranian instability, having an open border policy so new Mexican “voters” can get on the welfare roles, supporting illegal aliens voting in U.S. elections, spending money like a drunken monkey, refusing to do anything to create favorable climate for business, giving banks financial disincentives to loan money, union-uber-alles attitude, etc etc. I’m not sure I can take another four years of this. And those of you who think that the second term agenda does not include gun control simply have your heads in the sand. I can guarentee you that the plans for the second term include (1) AWB, (2) hi-cap mag ban, and (3) regulation of all transfers of all new and used post 1898 firearms.
I didn’t like either the D or the R candidates in the last two elections. ended up voting L… Best of both worlds. Lots of individual liberty and small govt.
Da frick? Criminals are understandable but what about law abiding citizens? My dude, you are on a slippery slope. I defended you on that birth certificate bullshit, but it will be hard for me to spin this.
That is some funny shite right there.
if it makes you feel better, the birth certificate legend still lives!
“….and we should check someone’s criminal record before they can check out a gun seller”
Welcome to 1993. By the way, Seung Hui-Cho and Mr. Holmes passed their Brady Checks. So did the Columbine Shooters, since they had a girlfriend straw purchase their weapons.
The Brady System is as obsolete as Windows 95, and is less reliable than an American ally in the Middle East.
I agree. Does that mean we should replace it with something more restrictive? Because that’s what Obama is talking about.
What he is talking about are person-to-person sales that do not go through any form of background check. In my opinion, this is the only law that needs to change. It has nothing to do with recent events, but it is still a glaring flaw in the system.
It’s already illegal to sell a firearm to a person you know or would reasonably suspect to be a criminal. What are you going to do? Make it more illegaller?
No, we would make it require a background check just to make sure the seller is right in his judgment that the buyer is legit. I’m sure no seller would ever lie about what he thinks, but we need to make sure.
Moonshine7102,
No. However, it should be a requirement that all buyers must pass the instant background check. As of now, person-to-person sales rely on the judgement of the seller. Well, we have a tool available to us that would allow the seller to be sure the sale is legal. We should use it.
Amen, brother. We should be using it.
“Well, we have a tool available to us that would allow the seller to be sure the *purchaser has not yet been found guilty of a disqualifying crime.”
——
It only looks at the past, man. It’s not a crystal ball.
Moonshine7102,
Absolutely correct. But right now we aren’t looking at all. In a person-to-person sale, the seller is blind. The least we can do is look at the data we do have.
How many criminals would such a check prevent from gaining access to a firearm? The answer is, IMHO, very simple: the same number who are currently prevented from purchasing a firearm at a gun store. Under your system, the only place a criminal would be able to purchase a firearm would be from another criminal. Just like now.
While placing an undue burden on the large number of law-abiding citizens who would like to sell a firearm to their buddy, or their brother, or hell, even a perfect stranger, without having to ask the government’s permission to do so.
Moonshine7102,
No. As of now a criminal can locate the the guy with a “for sale” flag sticking out of the muzzle of an SKS at a gun show, and buy it on the spot.
What is wrong with preventing that from happening?
How many criminals do you suppose aquire their firearms using the method you describe? Last I checked, the vast majority of criminals report purchasing their guns from fellow criminals.
You cannot reduce the number of guns sold illegally by making it more difficult/tedious/onerous to sell them legally.
There are only 4 ways that bad guys get guns and “from other criminals” is not one of them, at least not if you’re interested in where the guns come from, which I suppose is the whole point. I explained it here.
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.it/2012/06/four-major-ways-criminals-get-guns.html
Mike, you are out of your damn mind. Your “only four sources” have almost nothing in common with the FBI’s gun source information. You say they’re listed in descending order, and your first item is “straw purchases.” The FBI’s information says that straw purchases are an almost immeasurably small percentage source of guns. I believe it was on the order of 2-3%. You have theft at #2, the FBI has it much further down the list. The #1 source of crime guns is friends/family, according to the FBI. These are not necessarily sales, but could be loans, trades, etc.
Even if they are sales, do you honestly think that if John Doe #1 was going to sell a gun to his buddy/cousin John Doe #2 for use in an armed robbery, he would rethink that decision simply because he was supposed to call it in to NICS first? “Wait, I was gonna give Johnny this gun so he could stick up the local grocery store, but now that I have to run it past the gummint, nevermind, because now it’s more illegaler.”
And how would you keep track of whether that gun now belonged to Johnny Doe #1 or Johnny Doe #2? Oh yeah, that’s right, gun registration. Because how do you know which guns I have unless they’re all individually registered?
Matt,
Undue burden? Do you go through all of the paper work when you buy a gun in a shop?
What I am proposing is one step below that. It’s a phone call.
crosswiredmind: Undue burden? Do you go through all of the paper work when you buy a gun in a shop? What I am proposing is one step below that. It’s a phone call.
OK, it’s just a phone call. To a system that I don’t have access to. And “all of the paper work” at the gun shop? Those 4473’s are retained on site, as a record of the firearm’s disposition.
So if I meet you in a parking lot to sell you my Sig P238, you want me to make a phone call to make sure you’re legal. Do I also have to keep paperwork proving I made the phone call? The NICS isn’t going to keep a record, because they’re not allowed to by law. If I don’t have to keep paperwork, what’s to stop me from simply saying I called it in?
For the record, just because we can sell at will to anyone who is legal doesn’t mean everyone goes all willy-nilly. Lots of people who sell through Gunbroker, Armslist, Florida Gun Trader, etc., will use some sort of form like this, if for no other reason than to cover their own ass should something bad happen down the road. If I was selling something that I’d bought through a store, and my name was on a 4473 somewhere attached to that serial number, I’d probably fill one out and file it with my other papers. But that’s for my use, and it’s likely that no one else would ever see it, and it’s sure not the government’s business that that transaction took place.
Oh, and looking at that form again, I also remembered that a lot of people on GunBroker, etc., require you to have a valid Concealed Weapons Permit before they’ll do business with you, because it’s a basic proof that you’re a good guy. It’s not required by law, but it’s a good example of the gun community policing itself.
Except Mexican criminals. Then the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives, and Really Big Fires will supply them.
Which they didn’t, but don’t let facts get in the way of a good hyper-partisan sound bite.
Except when they did. What kind of hyper-partisan fool doesn’t get that? Even if you accept the Holder and the DOJ spin, they admitted (eventually) that guns walked. Holder characterizes that as a mistake. The only questions are if it really was a mistake and if there is a coverup related to who knew what/when. Those are the facts. If you cannot agree to that, then you are either a hyperpartisan liar or woefully ignorant.
There is a difference between a result caused by inaction, and a result caused by premeditated intent.
To claim that BAFTE supplied Mexican criminals with guns is a clear misrepresentation of the facts.
What do you call it then, when federal agents tell dealers to allow suspicious transactions and allow said weapons to be taken across the border with no real means of tracking? The Bush administration tried it (with actual tracking devices, even) and failed miserably when said devices were found and disabled. What is it when the same failed tactic is recycled, sans the tracking devices? The claim that they wanted to “track” guns, with no real means of doing so, makes about as much sense as a crash test with no dummies, seatbelts or airbags.
Stupidity does not equal ill intent. Just because F&F was dumb, does not mean we were supplying narco-terrorist on purpose.
Yo Rob, please don’t say “assault rifle”, that’s Brady speak. Sporting and defense rifle sounds better.
assault rifle is a select fire military weapon, thus it is military speak.
Rifle suffices just fine.
I’m growing to like the term “Modern Rifle”, partly because it annoys the fudds.
“Modern rifles”, short and uncomplicated. I like it.
Annoying the fudds is an added bonus.
The most popular US “Modern rifle” was designed roughly 55 years ago (a few years longer if you consider the AR10 design). By the time the anti’s accept the term “modern rifle” it will already have passed into “antique” status!
“fudds” i had to look that one up.
Hilarious!!!
“The most popular US “Modern rifle” was designed roughly 55 years ago (a few years longer if you consider the AR10 design). By the time the anti’s accept the term “modern rifle” it will already have passed into “antique” status!”
Can’t we just call them vintage rifles now?
…and so it begins.
Well good thing our criminals don’t have AK-47’s dumb ass!!!!
I would be willing to bet a dollar that 95% of all gun related crimes are done with hand guns, not rifles. Then you have sawed off shotguns, and maybe once in a great while someone using a semi automatic rifle.
Then again I showed to pistols to my parents the other day. I asked them do you know why one is legal and one is illegal in the state of CA? They couldn’t answer….
When I told them it is because one has a mag safety and one doesn’t they kind of looked at me funny. Then I showed them two other hand guns. one the company payed the extortion from CA and the other wasn’t paid. Then they looked at me funny again.
In fact most citizens don’t even own M-16s or grenade launchers or anti tank missiles. Although we should be able to in my opinion, but that is a different story.
When the man running our country can’t tell the difference between a true assault rifle and well a semi automatic rifle there is a serious issue, or not, as they are pushing to try and get the UN ATT signed before he gets booted from office.
Barack will be re-elected. Anyone who thinks otherwise is insane. You sir will be one mad bro the day after election day.
after the election? what coma have you been in sparky. i’ve been pissed since bill clinton got elected and i haven’t seen any reason to let up since.
Barack can help you bro. Just give him a chance. Sometimes you just gotta believe in something. Barack is that “something”.
One can hope and vote. It might not mean much voting republican in CA, but if Romney gets enough swing states it could happen. No I won’t be upset, I will simply buy as many as I can and get ready when it is time.
Actually, every vote matters. If it’s a close election and Romney wins the Electoral College but loses the popular vote, then God help us. It will be 2000 again, but with massive playing of the race card and using the OWS stooges.
So every vote does count.
Obama is dumber than a bag of hammers and the American people that are a tiny bit smarter than that are starting to see that, in spite of the media elite’s best efforts to prop him up.
Unless he pulls an October surprise, attacks Iran say, he is toast. If any disagree state it now and have the guts to own up come November 7th. The media will be completely shocked and left looking for answers on how our first Affirmative Action President got his lunch handed to him.
As to what weapons We the People should be ‘allowed’ to own. Screw him. We need to keep firing politicians till we get some public servants in office that understand they serve the people at the people’s pleasure and we will no longer stand for their fat cat cronyism.
The heck with a lame AK, I want an M1A2 Abrams.
Due to lax reporting, it is impossible to accurately identify handguns bersus rifles percentages. Illinois, for example, reports only “firearm” deaths, but not what firearm. But I did find this interesting stat on the FBI crime stats docs: ■Information collected regarding type of weapon showed that firearms were used in 67.5 percent of the Nation’s murders, 41.4 percent of robberies, and 20.6 percent of aggravated assaults. (Weapons data are not collected for forcible rape.) (See Expanded Homicide Data Table 7, Robbery Table 3, and the Aggravated Assault Table.)
“assault weapons” compose of a “astonishing” 1/5 of 1% of all crimes committed with guns. OMFG!!! 😉
Just a few months ago, two kids in Philadelphia joyriding on a stolen ATV were gunned down by a gang member with an AK – the full auto variety.
Its easy for him to say when he has the best trained protection in the world covering his ass.
While I do agree that we all don’t want weapons in the hands of lunatics, we already make an effort towards that. Background checks (obviously including criminal record checks) are as far as we can go unless each person gets individually screened and interviewed. But then that would just be redonkulous. How about those who are allowed to own a gun can also be allowed to carry a gun so we can protect ourselves (and our families) wherever we might be outside the house? That way a lunatic can’t just go spraying bullets into a damn near guaranteed unarmed crowd.
Well, if no lunatics have guns, what the @#$% is the point of carrying??? Seriously. Why bother arming yourself if no crazies are going to create a need for you to be armed??????
But the fact is that the crazy folk will all ways find some way to get their hands on firearms. Whether through the black market, a trip down to Mexico, friends, etc. Gun control laws can only do so much, and truthfully we’d very likely be better off if more citizens carried firearms. Look at the Swiss, nearly their entire male population, and a good portion of the female population serve or have served in the military. Nearly all of them own firearms, whether issued to them or personally owned. Surprisingly (or not), despite the extreme amount of dormant firepower sitting in nearly every home in the country, the crime rate in Switzerland is lower than most countries in the world. Fact remains, criminals are less likely to commit a crime if they know their target is armed. Had there been someone with a CCL in the audience at that theater, deaths could have been prevented.
Wrong on several accounts.
The idea that someone carrying in the theater would have reduced the scale of the crime is an emotional presumption. A possibility yes, but not to any degree of confidence, nor a guarantee against the chance that errant rounds would have worsened the outcome.
Furthermore, saying “crazy folk will find a way to get their hands on a gun” is also another emotional cop out that ignores a large body of evidence, particularly in the case of Australia, that correlates convenience of acquiring firearms with their utilization in committing violent acts. When ready access to firearms in Austalia was removed entirely via a mandatory buyback, violent crime rates dropped precipitously, armed violent crime dropped doubly so. (mind you, correlation still isn’t causation, but the strength of the association isn’t something to ignore)
Additionally, saying that the Swiss population is secure as a result of *everyone* being armed is a gross simplification and neglects the well established circumstances that contribute to crime.
Case in point: Switzerland spends 31.6% of it’s GDP on social welfare programs like social security, education, and healthcare; the US spends roughly 19.1% (2001 numbers, wikipedia)
Stringent gun control works, and we have an example of that today: ever heard of a title 2 weapon used in a crime? How many instances since NFA was passed in 1934?
If all firearms were required, without exemption, to undergo Title 2 tax and registration or be subject to forfeiture/prosecution, the incidence of ‘common’ armed crime would likely drop. If the US were to implement more efficient, integrated social/healthcare programs, the incidence of ‘common’ armed crime would likely drop. If for some friggin’ reason we as a society could dump our Hollywood-esque fetish for guns…well…let’s not get ahead of ourselves eh?
On that note, the President’s bit about AK’s is just more illogical crap. AR’s, AK’s, Galil’s, etc, aren’t our problem. Our problem is a complete small arms saturation, whatever you want is merely a question of price and a quick trip to a Sporting Goods store…unless of course you want something like my SBR. Only way to get her is through patience, diligence, and actually investing your time…and really, isn’t that exactly what a responsible gun owner should do?
Convenience and accessibility matter, anyone saying differently is bullshitting you.
If he moves back to Chicago in January he’ll be living in Gun Control Utopia, luckily he gets Secret Service protection at our expense.
I’m not sure if the SS can stand up to Gangland.
only for 10 yrs after he leaves office. They changed the law after Clinton left.
We’ve made an effort, yes, but is it enough of an effort? The fact of the matter is that state reporting to the NICS is spotty at best. Some states report no mental health holds at all. Some are highly inconsistent on DV holds. Obama has said before, and I tend to agree, that the system could be improved by mandating the states to comply with their reporting duties. That is about the best we can do, and doing this is consistent with most of his statements. Obama knows that there is no interest in Congress to re-up the assault weapons ban, knows full well that that ban was largely responsible for democrats losing their majority in the middle of the Clinton presidency, and will not be tolerated by the party chieftans (whoever they may be–I always wonder who is the real power behind the presidential throne). So this is typical politician speak–something Obama is pretty adept at–saying something that sounds good but means virtually nothing. Obama must know that this too will blow over and the world return to the more mundane mayhem that infects the news cycle.
As I’ve said many times, all we have to do is take people who’ve proven to be a danger to society and lock them up – if they cannot be reformed, then execute them. It’s utterly absurd that the government will say “This person is dangerous and a threat to innocent people” and then put them out on the street so that they can harm innocent people.
“An AK-47 didn’t come into it.”
He must be getting his information from O’Reilly.
It’s disturbing how little these people know about the subject, but what’s even worse is that when we point out the facts, we’re accused of being irrational and selfish. In that spirit, next time a drunk driver uses a Chevy to kill someone, I’m going to call for a ban on Toyotas.
Anyone who’s surprised by this is officially an idiot. Just sayin’.
Yup. I’ve been saying it for 6 years. Sometimes, it’s awful to be right.
And with that, he lost the election.
No he didn’t. The vast majority of voters don’t give a frick about guns. They have other concerns such as the economy.
Most people don’t vote.
There is a large enough single-issue bloc on this matter that he can’t risk angering them. He just convinced them to vote in larger numbers than usual.
as if that bloc wasn’t already against him
“The vast majority of voters don’t give a frick about guns. They have other concerns such protecting their entitlements.”
Fix’t.
if the election hinges on the economy we have no worries. after all, this is now bo’s economy.
Matt, you are absolutely f–king correct. They are voting to protect their entitlements.
Obama and his Chicago School of Finance Keynesian circus ring never impressed me worth a damn, nor anybody else not under the messiah spell.
People will not vote for obama because of the economy. It is declining despite his best efforts. jesus christ himself cannot satisfy the 1 quintillion dollar derivatives bubble just waiting to pop.
i live in ca. i can’t buy an ak-47. but that doesn’t seem to slow the bad guys down any. only those of us that play by the rules. being law abiding sucks. and for the record i don’t want an ak-47. but i would like for it to be my choice.
It’s a Freudian Slip. BO really believes that good soldiers fighting for a good cause carry AK47s and bad ones fighting for a bad cause carry AR15s.
Honestly, Aharon, I like you, and generally respect your opinion (even if you are a little over the top sometimes), but I really feel that stuff like that distracts from the message and detracts from our side’s credibility.
I suppose it’s possible that you actually believe what you said, but I doubt it. It’s just a cheap talking point.
I believe the majority of gun owners would agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons…
The difference is emphasis. I think we should do everything reasonably possible, stopping short on infringing on the rights of the law-abiding populace. You think we should do everything possible, regardless of its efficacy or the unintended consequences.
What does a dude have to do to get a hat tip up in here?
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/robert-farago/time-mag-writer-mainstream-media-is-pro-gun-control/#comment-334690
Anyway, as I said in the other thread, exactly which country does he think he’s the President of? Are there any countries that actually still use the AK-47 as a service weapon? Indonesia uses the Pindad SS1 and Kenya uses the G3.
What does a dude have to do to get a hat tip up in here?
Not be anonymous?
I kid.
A lot of countries use the AK.
Russia and its now independent, former Soviet republic neighbors.
AK-47 users include some Afghan units, some Iranian units, some Iraqi units, North Korea, Laos and Vietnam. I suppose some third-line Russian units use it, but they’ve generally been replaced by the AKM or AKS-74.
LOL well very few original, bona fide AK47s even exist in the first place. There is a reason why the AKM model was the most popular.
The AKM is still in service with many third world governments. In the various states in the former soviet union, the AK74 and its variants are the most popular.
Do a search under BING old post still up ,, March 30, 2012 (disinfo.com) Homeland Security buys 450 million rounds 40 S&W H.P. ammo ! This is old stuff , can not understand that you are that much asleep .. same for other items do some internet home work ………. this is old hat too.. awake America!!!!
And if AK-47 type weapons are banned.
What happens when a nutjob goes berserk with a scoped bolt action rifle and takes out many many people are long range? What will be the call then?
If they have their way then…what happens when a nutjob goes berserk and takes out many many people with a lever action rifle? What will be the call then?
The hard truth is that the only destination for this type of mindset is what happened in the United Kingdom. Banned them all one at a time, until the idea is “Ah, whats the point, might as well just ban em all…that way well be totally sure nobody will get shot”
And that worked so well in Cumbria and Clerkwell.
sigh, 3 more months…….
Okay, Barry — come out, come out, wherever you are.
Yeah, that’s better.
@OFWG Obama haters
How will you make yourself feel good if you don’t for a black man? Ya know it is the only choice.
Honestly, I was shocked to see it was Rob who posted this article, seeing how Rob continually comes out and defends Obama and claims that Obama isn’t anti-gun.
We all know that he’s wrong about most gun owners thinking AK’s should be banned.
“I think we recognize the traditions of gun ownership that passed on from generation to generation. That hunting and shooting are part of a cherished national heritage…”
Ok, one more time for the slow kids in the room:
The Second Amendment was created to protect the citizen’s ability to defend against tyranny and oppression (aka, YOU, Obama) NOT to protect his right to “sport shoot!” The 2A says that we the citizens have the right to possess the means to overthrow a tyrannical government. “Sport shooting” and “hunting” don’t have a damn thing to do with it.
So, really, is it any surprise a tyrant opposes the 2A? Why wouldn’t he? You can always tell a corrupt politician; he’s the one who opposes the means to bring down corrupt politicians.
“The right to possess the means to overthrow a tyrannical government”
Thank you.
I’m really surprised at how little this point gets made. I’m also incredibly surprised that this point NEEDS to be made.
America was founded by rebels. We were created by fighting back against the worst greatest power. Our national anthem, The Star Spangled Banner, is about that battle. We hear it at every sports game, but yet it seems people forget about it.
I agree. It’s not about hunting. It’s not about sport shooting. It’s about our citizens being able to take up arms, and fight back should we ever need to.
So yes… military style weapons SHOULD be available to citizens. And of course, those in power that rule over us are not going to want us to have them. Because they don’t want us to be able to fight back.
I have heard this before that the 2A is to allow citizens to fight back against the Govt. However in practice that is just idiotic because the Govt have stealth bombers, M1A1 tanks, cruise missles, Navy seals etc. Your assault weapon(s) are not really going to stop the Govt if (and it is an implausible if) they wanted to come and get you.
All the stealth bombers, tanks, SEALs, and missiles in the US inventory couldn’t stop the majority of the US population from overthrowing the government if we were determined enough. It might take time, but we’d win eventually.
With all our technology and elite forces we have enough trouble stopping relatively small insurgencies in third world countries. How could we stop a full blown insurgency/revolution in our own country?
It wouldn’t need to be a fair fight. So long as the populace can put up some effective resistance, then then the military would have to actually use all those heavy weapons. And a lot of soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines who might go along with some armed intimidation (of an unarmed population) are not going to go along with using Abrams tanks and heavy artillery on civilians who could literally be their families.
really? 870 wingmaster?
Ok,
First order of buisness.It’s what i felt and said all along.The AK.Why the AK.Well because the AK works.It’s a symbol on nations flags,it go’s bang when you pull the trigger.It’s the BOGEY MAN’s bad guy gun.It’s the “pick on me gun”.If the orange head wonder freak had a AK’47,boy we would really here the screams.Why?More than likely there would not have been a JAM.It might not be accurate as a AR,but forget Q Tips and sensitivity.And do not for one moment,that Mittens(Romney) also bought and paid for will allow under pressure the rights we hang onto by our finger nails.Intresting thing is”someone who is of the “THOUGHT”process and espouses a “Socialist” outlook,actually another bought and paid for puppet,their all puppets,it’s been the go to gun till this day.Actually,most inner city gangsters cheerish this gun,as well as cartels,bought and paid for thugs on the books.
LOL! You do realize it was the AR mag that failed. It was one of those double drum POS mags.
….and Mr. President, you belong on the street…not in the oval office.
Love the disconnect, you can do sport shooting with an AK-47, but people choose not to because the bolt doesn’t lock back causing longer reloads.
On top of that even with a good muzzle brake, the AK-47 has major recoil in comparison to an AR-15 with a 7.62×39 upper.
As you all know I am a pro 2A black man. 2A is very important to me; especially since I live in the SW and work in the NE. However, 2A should not be the big issue of 2012.
Jobs, the gap between the rich and poor, education, debt, offshore jobs…..and banking…..health care, first responders, ..and of course trust of a candidate should help you cast your ballot. Look at them all and others then vote….. But please vote.
No fair sitting it out. Everyone needs to vote. Shows who should have the power. The more voices heard the better. Get everyone out to vote at every level. ” Don’t be a drag …….participate”……..hopefully some middle age folks will remember that line and get busy…..:-)
Stay safe.
Sup my nigga.
Robert?
What the bidness is?
Agreed. The Second Amendment is safer than it has ever been and we have bigger fish to fry.
Sure it is….lots of options this year.
1. President that supports a “modern rifle” ban
2. Presidential candidate that has already signed a “modern rifle” ban in his home state.
The future looks bright <sarcasm
Let’s talk about the economy, how many gun stores will lose their business with a gun ban? Gun manufacturers? Gunsmiths? Companies that make accessories and add-ons? Tactical gear? In this economy is he going to really justify closing all of these businesses? Many of which are small businesses?
GOOD POINT. I bet he hasn’t even cared about/considered that….but he’ll go on a “I support jobs/small businesses” campaign when he’s trying to get elected. So stupid.
Not to mention the huge tax increases coming for people who are barely getting by as well as small businesses. But those don’t happen until next year. It’s almost like there’s something important he had to delay them for…
Windows 95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, XP, Vista,7, and even the Phone OS interfaced Windows 8 are more reliable than the info spewed out by the media and Mr. Prez.
“But I also believe that a lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals. That they belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities.”
With the war on drugs, and the gang wars, our streets, at least in some areas ARE battlefields, ones the police are reluctant to travel on even in the line of duty, without traveling in packs.
“ I believe the majority of gun owners would agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons, and we should check someone’s criminal record before they can check out a gun seller.”
I thought we already did that. Ya know fill out paper-work, send it off, if we’re lucky fast same-day approval. If not, wait possibly weeks for that approval. Upon approval (State Police, FBI, ATF, or whatever other agency demands to approve, depending on said purchase item) then be able to take it home. This shows Mr. Prez’s ignorance, or blatant disregard, of existing laws (and he went to law school?)
Unfortunately, the State of Floriduh uses the Dept of Agriculture to issue carry permits (and maybe pre-sale of guns, too). They cannot access the Federal databases because they are not recognized as a law enforcement agency.
Um, no. Every time you purchase a gun in Florida, a NICS check is performed. NATIONAL Instant Check System.
As for the remark about CCW permits—-FDLE handles the background check. That’s why fingerprints are submitted. I don’t think you’re correct in what you claim.
I did say “maybe for gun sales, too”. You must have missed that. I guess if I wasn’t sure, I shouldn’t have posted it at all…. sorry.
As for the CCW being processed by the Dept. of Agriculture, I’m sticking with that statement.
Here is the form that gets filled out and submitted for CCW. Note the agency at the top of the form:
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/FORMS/FormsRequest790.html
You know the insidious thing about Fyrewerx‘s comment? There’s nothing about it that can be pointed out as patently false, so you can’t actually call him a liar, and yet the comment is completely misleading.
Man, you should really write for some talking head on TV, maybe Bill O’Reilly, because that’s exactly the kind of thing they do.
@Matt in FL — please read my response to Mike, above.
Nothing like a snarky remark Matt. Thanks, I needed that.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/FORMS/FormsRequest790.html
Your comment — “Unfortunately…” — makes it sound like you think the Dept of Agriculture handling concealed carry in Florida is a bad thing, as if the standards are somehow made less stringent because of it. That’s why I pointed out your statements as being absolutely correct, but still misleading.
It’s true that the Dept of Agriculture handles concealed carry permits in Florida. It’s probably also true that, because they’re not law enforcement, they can’t access the Federal databases. But here’s the thing: that’s completely irrelevant. The DoA might handle the paperwork, but the background checks are no less stringent than anywhere else, because the NICS check is still done, just like everywhere else, and the background check part is handled by FDLE. Your disparaging comments (“unfortunately, Floriduh”) make it appear that you think that the same people that count cows are in complete charge of handling carry permits, and that’s just not the case.
Therein lies the genesis of my snark. By using selective truths (both sentences were 100% correct), and leaving out the context and detail, you did exactly what the talking heads on TV do, which is present half-truths with a tone of incredulity. “Can you believe that those dumb hicks in Florida are so dumb that they let their cow-counters be in charge of who can carry a deadly weapon?!”
Did I misjudge your intent? If so, what was your intent with your initial comment?
My intent was merely to point out that a full background check, nationally, is not done for CCW applicants in FL. I have nothing against counting cows (I was raised on a WI farm, before becoming a Federal LEO). I learned of the glitch in the system while waiting to apprehend an alleged BG. I had asked the local officer how this guy could have a CCW from FL while being wanted in 2 other states and for issues involving crossing state lines. That’s when he advised about how the CCWs are handled. FL now has over 1 million CCWs issued. The amount done per month has made it difficult to check each background thoroughly. Most states’ checks are done by law enforcement agencies, and at a very slow pace. The manpower required is just not in the budget of FL law enforcement agencies (as it is at the licensing agency). I think this is “unfortunate” because it makes it too easy to get a CCW in FL. I believe it is more a matter of theoretical vs reality in this process.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t believe that the background checks done here are any less stringent than most other states. You fill out the form, they run a check for wants and warrants, and… ? I’m not sure what you consider “a very slow pace.” My nonresident Virginia permit took less time to receive than my resident Florida permit.
It’s true that Florida has a million active permits issued; 2.2 million total since 1987. I’m sure you read the same information I do, so you’ll recognize it when I say, out of 2.2 million issued, only 6200 revoked for crimes, of that number only 168 revoked for gun-related crimes. That’s an infinitesimally small percentage. I’m quite satisfied with the job our folks up in Tallahassee are doing on this. Are some going to slip the through the cracks? Sure. That’s the nature of bureaucracy and the nature of life. You’re never going to eliminate every single mistake.
Your story, if true (I’m not making a judgement on that, but you understand, it is the internet), marks the second case I know of in which a “bad actor” was found in possession of a Florida nonresident permit. In both cases, the bad actor did something wrong, unrelated to the actual permit, the mistake was discovered and corrected. I’m sure that there are one or two examples of the same thing happening from most states that issue nonresident permits in any measurable quantity.
Matt, in light of those figures you’ve provided, I tend to agree that the background checks FL does are very good. The “slow pace” I was thinking of was more for states like Iowa (2 -4 months, sometimes).
I apologize for any statements that are taken as misleading, or missing some information. They were not intended as such.
Matt, an interesting item I noted today (I missed it a few days ago), at the rate they’ve been processing the FL CCWs the last few weeks, they’re processing approx. 1 every 1 1/2 minutes (based on 10 hour work days). There’s a lot of “assuming” in my calc. I know they only work 5 days per week, but I don’t know hours per day, nor do I know if they had a large backlog that are getting filled now. Friends tell me they haven’t been waiting very long… several weeks at the most. I’m not trying to make a point… merely noting an interesting item.
Fyrewerx, I don’t know what the rate they’ve been processing in the last few weeks is, but there’s a story that’s been making the rounds lately that lists Putnam saying his office is issuing between 10k and 15k permits per month. Examples here and here. (I could easily add 2-3 more examples, but they’re all the same story, and more than two links in a comment sends you to the spam filter.)
Assuming that’s true, and there hasn’t been a massive change of pace in the last few weeks (something you’ve seen that I haven’t, perhaps?), then I think your math is a little off. I just ran some numbers, assuming 10 examiners (which I think is probably low, and Putnam has also said he’s added more workers to handle the demand), and assuming 8 hours per day, because these are government workers, after all.
12500 permits/month / 160 work hours = 78.125 permits/hr
78.125 / 10 examiners = 7.8125 permits/hr/examiner
7.8125 = 7.68 minutes per permit
Increase that to 15 workers, and that’s 5.2 permits/hr/examiner, and 11.52 minutes/permit.
I have no idea how many people are actually processing permits, but to get to your 1-1.5 minutes per, I had to reduce the number of workers to between 1.5 (1.152 min) and 2 (1.536 min).
You’re right – I should have done the calculation in manhours. I’ll try to find out how many people are processing them. Reminds me of a joke –
Q: How many people work at your shop?
A: About half
Political speeches are meant to be broadly understood– the Sunlight Foundation did a study that says most of them are at a lower high school level for this reason. We on this site are very knowledgeable about guns– I think it’s fair to say the American public is not. I doubt most people watching would know what an AR-15 even was. Both Romney and Obama want to avoid audience members feeling the need to pull out a smartphone and Google something during a speech. Nick even said that “the AK-47 system is the most popular firearm ever produced,” in his excellent piece on AK purchasing, and he’s 100% right. Most people have heard of an AK-47. It was just meant to evoke the image of a military-type weapon that would have a higher probability of being understood.
I think it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario– if he mentioned the Glock, S&W, or Remington models used we would (correctly) complain that he was attacking quality gun manufacturers that supply our troops and LEOs. If he mentioned the wrong gun, we would claim he has no knowledge of military hardware. And the “child opens fire on other children,” line was not in reference to James Holmes at all. The line preceding that one was about youth in gangs and using education as a means to “steer young people away from a life of gang violence,” and was in a later section of the speech.
last night my buddy pointed at my Armalite-10 and said, people who want to buy something like that need background checked everytime they buy one, I pointed at his Remmy 870p and said, thats the exact model that was used in the shooting, people who want to buy one of those need to be background checked everytime they buy one.
we both looked at each other (and I wanted to slap him) as i said “they both already were background checked duh”.
We both ended up agreeing that no matter how much gun control you try and throw into the mix, crim’s will be crim’s. Get money the ski mask way.
He went on to make the standard concessions to the 2nd Amendment adherents, which made the speech difficult to decipher. Is he finally taking a stand or is this just more talk aimed at appeasing both sides?
The latter.
Barry (The Smartest Man In The Room™) Obama just whacked a few more ring nails in the coffin of his political aspirations. I love this guy, sure am gonna miss him.
According to Rasmussen (which is the only polling organization that I trust), there are only 100 electoral votes still up for grabs abd Barry would have to lose EVERY swing state to lose his Presidency. Unless something crazy occurs prior to the election, that just ain’t gonna happen. So we’re going to be stuck with that putz for another four years.
Time to stock up a vaseline ’cause we’re all gonna be backdoored.
And stock up on the guns and ammo, because although La Pierre is a lying, self-serving demagogue, he might just turn out to have been right.
And stock up on the guns and ammo too because although La Pierre is a lying, self-serving demagogue, he just might turn out to have been right.
Ralph, I know, I know, don’t get cocky and we’re still a long way off from 11/6 but….
Thursday, July 26, 2012
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows Mitt Romney attracting 48% of the vote, while President Obama earns support from 44%. Four percent (4%) prefer some other candidate, and five percent (5%) are undecided.
Never give up, never surrender!!
Mikey, I appreciate the advice but I’m pretty much all set thanks.
Remember the Scout motto; Be Prepared.
The meaning will be decided later, depending on polling results. Because that’s real leadership.
Wow, I finally agree with mikeyb on something. Barrys been the best thing for the gun industry in the last 100 years. This fool will get back in and gun and ammo sales will continue to soar. Watch what happens to AK sales after his stupid comments today.
More people die by bullet in 1 year in your country than in your 2 last war(Irak and Afghanistan). And you still think its good idea to wear war weapons in your country. None so blind as those that will not see.
You pretty much summed up WHY I still think it’s a good idea. Thanks.
And more children die by drowning than by gunshots. Shall we limit the depth of swimming pools people are allowed to have in their back yards?
The murder rate in the US is approximately 5 per 100,000. The global average is approximately 7 per 100,000. We are on the correct side of that curve.
and were dropping. and thank goodness or that.
Facts never change a person’s mind who is ruled by emotion. Mr. S clearly is.
Hmmmm, that’s weird. I absolutely disagree with that statement. I asked all my friends who own guns and none of them agreed.
Once again, taking out of both sides of his mouth.
He’s been anti-gun his whole life. The only surprising thing about this video is that he finally admitted it. You can put a fork in him, because he is done. He trying to use the recent tragedy to try to sway the american public. I think he got his timing messed up, because we are even more determined to protect ourselves.
Aren’t we all “soldiers” in the war to preserve freedom?
A rifle like an ar15 is indeed good for assaults, as well as counter-assault. So is an ak47. I understand the compulsion to use euphemisms like “home defense” to soften connotations of the weapon, but there are two important realities that are obscured by doing so. The weapon is what it is, and people owning them makes the US people a very hard target for anyone who would do us ill. 2A talks about both people and militia. The people are the militia and the militia are the people whether you have a gun, fatigues, organization, friends, acknowledgement of these facts, or not.
Barry proves once again that he has his head firmly planted up his ass.
Meh. Go screw yourself Mr. President.
Lucky for you, many of your supporters are not informed enough to understand what you’re saying is flat out stupid.
“ I believe the majority of gun owners would agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons, and we should check someone’s criminal record before they can check out a gun seller.”
I’ve read this several times, and I’m still confused by it. “Check out a gun seller” WTF is he trying to say? Does he mean check out a gun buyer? Or was it a feeble attempt at addressing the so called “gun show loophole”?
In general, he’s obviously detached from his subjects. I expect the overwhelming majority of gun owners already feel the amount of p/w and checks is more than enough.
I understand that the U.N. global gun treaty will be ready soon and that the senate will have a vote on it,,, That’s what all this about, they can not have the NEW WORLD ORDER while we still have legal firearms ownership,, and another item I learned that FEMA now has many camps already to go, plus the Marines have special units of Military Police all set to control civil unrest…WAKE UP AMERICA ,, almost out of time…
Tin hat time. You really think the Govt (which is not a monolithic block by the way) is going to round up people and put them in camps?
While it remains to be seen if it will happen again. It HAS happened in the past with Japanese Americans. (I can’t say if that held true for German-Americans though, ’cause I don’t remember.)
The funny thing about conspiracy theories, at least until overwhelming evidence is presented to either prove or disprove them is the following: A lack of evidence is not evidence it isn’t truth.
We’ll probably never know with certainty if the conspiracy theories of 9/11, global warming, NWO cleaning house for a smaller population of sheep to control, etc. IF we ever do it may be too late for us, or just make for a good laugh.
Be vigilant, be suspicious. Just don’t flip out, or be blind.
One too many conspiracy tales invalidated your argument.
Well actually all of your conspiracy nonsense invalidated anything you tried to say but hey its “Freedom of Speech” so Rock On!
One more reason to invest in an aluminum mine.
there is not enough energy, money, and resources to round people up and give them the FEMA camp treatment just like there is not enough of the aforementioned to construct a new world order.
You got bigger things to worry about than nwo. the unsustainable economic paradigm, coupled with finite energy and increasingly unstable markets and the devaluation of the American dollar are THE greatest threats to the American people right now.
NSA now has a file on every American , guns or no guns , it’s what they THINK about you, if you are pro- bill of rights ,, FEMA has a place for you , checked first hand 30 FEMA camps have full staff and already to go ,, more as needed, have sources that back this up… and why does homeland security need 450 million rounds 40 s&w ammo , 100 million rounds 556 nato, and 10 thousand new M16’s ????????????
Um, you do realize that DHS covers our major intelligence agencies, border police, and immigration law enforcement. In other words the ammo goes to existing LE efforts. And I would love to see your source on those numbers. Sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.
The purchase order for 450 million rounds of .40 S&W was documented here a couple months back, and yeah, when you break it down across everyone under the DHS umbrella, it’s not an unreasonable figure. I would assume the 100 million rounds of 5.56 would be reasonable as well, though I haven’t seen that figure anywhere but the post above. I don’t know anything about the 10k M-16s.
the last Marine out: 30 FEMA camps? You make me giggle. Oh, and “checked first hand” usually means “saw with my own eyes,” so are you claiming you’ve seen any/all of these camps with your own eyes? Can I have addresses? Coordinates? GPS? Google Maps link?
because homeland security is adequately preparing for civil unrest as the economy spirals into collapse. no surprise there.
refer to the post above as to why FEMA camps are a tyrant’s unattainable goal.
FEMA camps? LOL! That is so crazy, I don’t even know here to begin the debunking of it.
haha, like I said in a post above, the US doesn’t have the money, resources, and energy to put americans in FEMA camps.
Theyll do what they did in the great depression: use apathy. Apathy caused deaths by starvation, disease, and crime while the survivors worked in the few remaining jobs for slave wages.
tell me where this fema camp is. i want to see it with my own eyes. and the blue helmeted un troops staged in our country. i think you’ve been taking alex jones at his word. never a good thing to do. we have real problems in this country without making up non existant ones.
I have a friend out west , across from his gun shop is old R.R. warehouses that have all been updated no windows, electric fence the whole works , has not been used by R.R. many years, anyhow he rode around it with his pickup took pics , all kinds keep out , security the works… at what point would accept. also you can do a BING search guns.com 450 mil. 40 s&w ,,175 mil 556,,, or vision to America.com = homeland stock piles tons ammo & guns ,,, and it goes on and on … What would make you accept the TRUTH ????????
the last Marine out: …at what point would accept… What would make you accept the TRUTH ????????
Tell me where your friend’s gun shop and/or the warehouses are. Don’t be vague. I’d accept those specific answers.
As I said before, we’re aware of the ammo purchases by DHS. They are not an unreasonable amount for a government agency that has virtually every other governmental law enforcement agency under its umbrella.
Ah yes, the old “I have a friend who swear’s he’s seen it.” :rolleyes:
I first heard the “secret detention camp” craziness in the mid 90’s. Some rumors just take on a life of their own.
Besides, why would the Fed need detention camps when they can just brainwash us with “chemtrails” (google it) to make us compliant?
AK sales will now skyrocket because of his silly statements.
Indeed. The law of unintended consequences strikes again.
i hope they do skyrocket. Every home with a semi-automatic 😀
Here is a great article by a wonderful columnist in Detroit that is easy to share with people who do not understand the “modern rifle”:
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120726/OPINION03/207260338/In-defense-maligned-assault-weapon?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p
Dirk,
Quality referral, thanks! (I just wish the Detroit papers had a wider audience.)
GET A GRIP, man; Obama said soldiers, not US soldiers and he said CRIMINALS, not law abiding citizens.
People are hammering Obama as if he said something wrong.
Ladies and gentlemen, such lofty blather and vaporous emanations are the very bedrock foundations of the mental flatulence regularly issuing forth from the very brightest of graduates of Harvard Law School.
Remember, these people know oh so much more than you do. They’ve been to Harvard. You haven’t. Therefore, they’re so much more qualified to run the country.
“But I also believe that a lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals. That they belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities.”
Can we get an official TTAG poll on this….with an option C “AK47’s belong in my hands” just to see what all the gun owners think here.
I’m for option C.
in a few more months it’s going to be Obama who ???
“I believe the majority of gun owners would agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons,”
“everything possible”? Not so much. Everything reasonable? Sure I’m on board with that. If you come up with some kinda of hurdle that I have to jump through that will have a significant impact on crime, and you can also make a “reasonable” case for it’s utility, if you can not only concretely prove that it has benefits but also prove that those benefits outweigh it’s costs then… I’ll consider it.
So if one is NOT a soldier and owns an AK-47 one is a criminal? Barak needs to grow a brain.
No AK’s ever used by U.S. Army and Marines. He’s apparently thinking about his little towel headed buddies in the middle east.
I hope the lot of you realize that the real reason the govt wants you to surrender your firearms is that the end results are:
1) You can’t uprise ( Important especially when tyrannical leaders are in power ).
2) Your other rights are on the table as well.. Forget about due process. Forget about your rights to vote. Forget about your right to speak up. Forget about privacy. Forget about life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. Forget about any and all of your rights and privileges.
3) They realize 100% that criminals won’t follow any laws that they don’t want to.
4) Your levels of fear will rise; crimes will rise once criminals have no resistance; the now disarmed public will cry out for more govt resources to protect them; surrendering more rights in the process. It will encourage large govt; govt that in the end will fail because it can’t stand its own financial weight. They’ll print money to cover it for as long as it can, but at some point, there will need to be a purge of the dead-weight.
5) ultimately, you will be living in a caste system of some sort; govt by the rich and those in power, and everyone else- mindlessly slaving over and doing whatever the govt and the rich dictate. You won’t have to worry about getting rich; it won’t happen unless you are already there.
6) if you oppose in any manner, you will be detained in one of their facilities and quietly disappear into the night- never to be seen or heard from again.
Sounds familiar:
“I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth or home defense. But I do believe an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon nor needed for home defense.” – Ronald Reagan
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