A man sprays mace, left, as another man fatally fires a gun, Saturday, Oct. 10, 2020 in Denver. The man on the left side of the photo was supporting the "Patriot Rally" and sprayed mace at the man on the right side of the image. The man at right, then shot and killed the protester at left. A private security guard working for a TV station was in custody Saturday after a person died from a shooting that took place during dueling protests in downtown Denver, the Denver Post reported. (Helen H. Richardson/The Denver Post via AP)
Report from the Associated Press:
A private security guard working for a TV station was in custody Saturday after a person died from a shooting that took place during dueling protests in downtown Denver.
The shooting took place shortly before 3:50 p.m. in Civic Center Park after a man participating in what was billed a “Patriot Rally” sprayed mace at another man, the Denver Post reported. That man then shot the other individual with a handgun near the courtyard outside the Denver Art Museum, according to a Denver Post journalist who witnessed the incident.
A man turns after fatally shooting another man during dueling protests, Saturday, Oct. 10, 2020 in Denver. The man on the left side of the photo was supporting the “Patriot Rally” and sprayed mace at the man on the right side of the image. The man at right, then shot and killed the protester at left. A private security guard working for a TV station was in custody Saturday after a person died from a shooting that took place during dueling protests in downtown Denver, the Denver Post reported. (Helen H. Richardson/The Denver Post via AP)
The man who was shot was taken to a nearby hospital, where he died an hour later, the KUSA TV station said.
A man is taken into custody after fatally shooting another man, Saturday, Oct. 10, 2020 in Denver. At the time two rallies, one right-wing and one left-wing, were taking place near one another. A private security guard working for a TV station was in custody Saturday after a person died from a shooting that took place during dueling protests in downtown Denver, the Denver Post reported. (Helen H. Richardson/The Denver Post via AP)
The KUSA TV station said on its website that it had contracted the private security guard who was arrested in connection with the shooting. “It has been the practice of 9NEWS for a number of months to hire private security to accompany staff at protests,” the station said.
Denver Police Department Division Chief Joe Montoya told the Post that police could not confirm the shooter’s or the victim’s affiliations, but he said the incident started as a verbal altercation. Two guns were found at the scene, Montoya said, as well as a mace can.
The Patriot Rally was one of two rallies taking place about the same time in the park. A counter-protest called “BLM-Antifa Soup Drive” took place nearby.
Maybe invest in a security guard that has more discernment training than some dipstick who pulls a trigger over mace. All the people defending this can shut up about the McCloskeys now.
The right-wing Patriot Rally protesters gathered in the park’s amphitheater and occasionally chanted patriotic songs and held up banners, the Post reported.
Protesters at the left-wing “BLM-Antifa Soup Drive” held up flags and signs railing against Nazis and white supremacists as they gathered in the middle of the park, several hundred feet from the barricaded-off amphitheater, the newspaper added.
This is a tragedy, but, I’m all for this shoot, if Mr. Mace was the aggressor and sprayed the security guard unprovoked. It’s a good shoot to me. But the same rules should be applied for the right – not just the left.
Antifa throw a brick at you?
Shoot them.
Antifa approach you with a bike lock?
Shoot them.
BLM guy spray you with mace or try to KO you?
Shoot them.
Antifa/BLM knock-out game?
Shoot them.
Antifa hit you with a skateboard?
Shoot them.
BLM try to Reginald Denny you?
Shoot them.
All for it! People need to learn to keep their hands to themselves and if the masses witness a few hooligans getting perforated. Good.
The photos posted elsewhere show Mr Sunglasses Security tried grabbing the can of mace before it was deployed, was slapped in the face, knocking his sunglasses and hat askew, and then drew and fired.
“After Being Pepper Sprayed” is the obvious defense for the shooter. All he has to say is he was blinded by the spray and in fear for his life and the gun went off blindly. Doesn’t mean he will walk.
Even though such big gulp size spray cans say they have a long range they do not work well against most anyone with firearm. Calling the shooter a “Security Guard” is far fetched to say the least.
Was he grabbing the mace after being threatened with it ? That would likely make this a justified shoot. When used OFFENSIVELY mace attacks can be justification for lethal force.
The guy with the mace appears to be menacing others prior to the shooting.
And it appears the Trump supporter was armed with a handgun too (in a shoulder holster). The police say they seized two guns after the shooting.
It’s looking more like a defensive gun use. The man was threatening violence, may have been touching someone else, hit the guard, sprayed guard and was carrying a sidearm at the time.
“if Mr. Mace was the aggressor and sprayed the security guard unprovoked.”
The shot was heard immediately after you hear the spray, so the gun was already out and probably on target. That means mace guy makes the decision to spray someone at distance that’s pointing a gun at him which seems pretty dumb in that particular situation. Throwing his hands up probably would have saved his life, and 100% Antifa-BLM guy still would have gone to jail.
The shooter is a professional contractor with a very famous security firm. He is not Antifa. He may be a Democrat, but most people are, especially people his age.
“He is not Antifa.”
He has an Antifa tat. He’s Antifa.
Show me *anyone* who isn’t Antifa rocking an Antifa tat…
@Geoff
Hear it from one of your favorite right wing grifters.
“Hear it from one of your favorite right wing grifters.”
I just did. He’s an admitted Leftist rocking an Antifa tat.
Ergo, *Antifa*…
To Chief sensor
If a guy has a swastika tattoo he’s a Nazi. If a guy has an antifa tattoo he’s antifa/communist.
@cc A very famous security firm with a very long history of hiring people of very questionable morality to do very shady things.
“Chief Censor says:
October 11, 2020 at 15:27
The shooter is a professional contractor with a very famous security firm. He is not Antifa”.
Wow CC, that didn’t age well?
Less then 24 hrs later and everything you stated has been proven wrong.
At least you’re consistent.
How about a citation to where you read the victim went to that event looking for trouble.
It will be my pleasure to prove that as nothing but bullshit too!
Don’t be around stupid people doing stupid things in stupid places.
They were all doing variety of stupid things.
That’s stupid. People are too stupid NOT to do STUPID things.
Just looking at the available info, the Patriot Prayer guy looks to be wrong AF. If you OC someone unprovoked or over some bullshit verbal altercation then you deserve the bullet same as if you tried to beat them with your hands. The fact is the defendant has no idea what level of violence you’re escalating to and it isn’t his job to find out. Attack people get slotted, I don’t care if our politics agree or not.
Actually, it looks like Chief Commie is still a lying Commie sack of shit, and another one of his Commie Comrades assassinated another member of Patriot’s Prayer.
If Chief Commie thinks anybody here believes a word he says when he repeats his Commie talking points, he’s sadly mistaken.
Oh look… someone’s making up for their Daddy Issues….it’s so cute.
“Trumpgoobers” huh? You’re one of those idiots that thinks that throwing molotovs and burning cities is protected as “protest” 😂
I bet you also believe what the liberal media tells you to believe, at face value, withour question. Cause you’re a gullible idiot. You sheeple think it’s a tragedy when rapists and violent drug addicts (like Jacob Blake and George Floyd) get shot and killed but are totally fine with this. You’re all such hypocritical morons and mindless drones. You don’t even know why you don’t like Trump. It’s only cause liberal propaganda told you not to like him.
Well… what the fuck? Very interesting.
Michelle Malkin has the timeline in her twitter feed.
Killer was in the Occupy movement, doxxed by 4chan thru his wrist tat. Bernie supporter via his bumper sticker.
Not a defensive trained person IMO, no “2 shots to the chest”
Murdercrats gonna murder.
Indeed. I have a question though. If the shooter was there as security for the press, why was he getting into it with this guy? Was the mace guy attacking his clients?
I got a different question, I thought that many tats made you bulletproof?! If not, WTF is the point?
The crosses didn’t seem to save the man.
I thought violence and hate were anti Christian values?
The man was menacing the black guy and cussing up a storm. He physically attacked the security when told to stop. It appeared the man had a shoulder holster with a handgun to go along with the bear spray.
The man sprayed the security guard when he started to draw down. The bullet appeared to pass through the man’s hand, then into his right cheek.
The man was arguing with a black guy who was wearing a “Black Guns Matter” shirt. The guy in the shirt was inferring he had a gun. People started to surround the black guy, those people had knives and other weapons. The guy with the bear spray was angry and cussing, but figured the black guy was armed with a gun. So the mace guy went after a white guy that told him to put down the mace. The mace guy then hit the private security contractor, knocking his hat and glasses off his face. The security guard drew his gun from the appendix position. The mace man then sprayed the armed guard. The security shot the man in the face with one shot.
It appeared the guard was carrying a gun with a threaded barrel, suppressor height sights, a light and a red dot. He worked for a very popular contractor and was hired by the local 9 news.
Mace man may have also had a gun. He was wearing some kind of anti BLM shirt and a bunch of rings. Apparently he thought he could bully people and assault them like Patriot Prayer did. Ended up with the same results, but this time it was a pro that shot him in the head with a single shot.
I hope there isn’t a third Trump voter who thinks they can bully and assault people. We don’t need to see this for a third time. Do not felony menace and assault people over Trump, Antifa and black lives.
1) The BLM guy was bullying people as they were leaving and calling everyone the N word.
2) The security guy is there to protect his client. He was not hired to get involved in was clearly non-lethal until he got involved. He certainly didn’t de-escalate the situation.
This one’s gonna be sooo juicy.
DPD ain’t playing on this they hit the Pinkerton with 1st degree murder around midnight.
And so now we know that 4chan was right before the news was because we know damn right well who the shooter is.
The Pinkerton security guard has ties to Antifa so deep he has tats proclaiming it and social media posts about this shit going back years. The journalist in question has known Antifa on the socials claiming he’s “one of them” long before this went down and follows them on socials like a damn puppy. And News9? Oh, man do they have some… uh, issues *cough* with their staff being violent leftist assholes. They fired a meteorologist recently over a little case of arson.
This one’s gonna be a hoot.
Yet the police wasted no time claiming that the shooter definitively has no ties to Antifa. That was a quick investigation. It’s hard to use the Charlottesville incident to point to the violent right when BLM and Antifa lefties are going around assassinating political enemies and cops. The media will continue to ignore the violence from one side and elevate the other.
The cops initially reported an Antifa connection and then retracted that about 15 minutes after a Lefty state legislator went on a Twitter rant about them saying it.
Pretty weird to have someone who’s got “no Antifa connection” yet has Antifa tattoos.
I’m having a bit of a problem with being so “Down with the struggle” that you willingly volunteer to spend the rest of your life (possibly up to 50 fucking YEARS) in a cage staring at a concrete wall.
What’s the attraction? “I really showed him!”?
He’s hoping on being released as “a hero of the revolution” after the overthrow.
Geoff:
I don’t think this is a case of being “so down”, nor is it what some have claimed in terms of an “assassination”. I think two hot-heads got into it in a difficult situation and in the end both will pay an extremely heavy price.
Based on the current totality of evidence and the fact that DPD has other video which seems to have led them to a murder charge here’s my opinion based on how Colorado actually operates and how Denver operates in particular. [Full disclosure; I had my own encounter with an attacker in Denver’s jurisdiction but I was in a far better legal situation because in my case the other guy had a knife and had attacked other people, which I had immediate foreknowledge of. There’s no debate in Colorado law as to weather or not the knife in this incident constituted a “deadly weapon”. It did. The outcome of that incident is he’s worm-food and I’m not. I didn’t use a firearm because I didn’t have time to deploy it. It was hand-to-hand from start to finish. However, this incident and the resulting interaction with DPD tells me a bit about how this goes down in Denver. Well… that and my lawyer at the time…]
======
Biker guy has a heated confrontation as reporter and his guard are entering the immediate area. The biker guy breaks off the heated encounter and happens to travel directly towards the reporter and guard with a can of mace in his hand.
At that point based on most of the evidence I have on hand I think the guard probably made a very serious mistake and overreacted to the presence of the mace. Seeing it as a threat to himself or his charge he moved forward and tried to disarm the biker. At that point the biker slapped him, which was legally permissible based on the guard’s action(s). At that point both people backpedal and the biker brings up the can of MACE while the guard draws a gun and we kinda know the rest.
The problem with that is that in Colorado just having a can of mace in your hand isn’t illegal, but one must admit that it’s sort of suspicious behavior. So, if the guard “sees it as a threat”, that’s all well and good but the guard crosses the legal line and becomes the aggressor if he tries to take the can away from the biker unless the biker issued a threat to use the mace, and even then in Colorado the guard is generally justified in drawing but he has to take a *defensive* posture at that point or stand his ground, he can’t move the overall situation “forward” in an aggressive manner that ratchets up the threat level to himself or someone else.
What I suspect happened here based on the background of the guard is that he’s not disciplined and he let his preconceived notions of the man in front of him cloud his judgement, panicked and cross the legal line from defender to aggressor. In doing so he unfortunately killed someone and that makes this murder.
It’s been suggested that the biker also had a concealed firearm. Barring further information to the contrary this information is entirely superfluous to this incident. Unless the biker specifically mentioned the gun in a threatening way the guard probably didn’t know he had it and even if he did a weapon that’s not being deployed or for which there is no reasonable threat of deployment (verbal, he reaches for it etc.) is not something you can shoot someone over.
*That* explanation makes sense.
This will likely go to trial, then, and we’ll see the video evidence…
Channel 9 Antifa dude (Kyle Clark, detained by cops along with Matthew the shooter) says Matt isn’t Antifa, he’s a Channel 9 News Security Contractor (hired by Kyle because he’s Kyle’s fellow traveler/co-conspirator)
Cops say killer dude (with easily verified Antifa/Occupy history and Antifa tattoo on his wrist) isn’t Antifa, because Kyle and a politician told them so.
They are just so SLY! Who could ever figure this out! And, of course, if he (they) are not antifa, then the murder will be forgiven, no harm done, right? You cannot make this shit up.
Antifa came about with Trump not with Obama. If being at Occupy Wall Street makes you Antifa, is Tim Pool now Antifa? What about Peter Schiff?
Let’s just make every shooting political because that will work out well. Let’s not look at what happened, just look at who did it. Democrats have no rights, correct?
Chief Commie:
Antifa came about in the 1920s, before Hitler.
Kyle hired Matt because Matt has long term street cred as a leftist organizer in Denver going over ten years back. If you’re trying to disassociate him from Antifa, I don’t think anybody here is going to believe you.
We are not talking about the anti fascist group in Europe who was setup to fight Nazis. We are talking about American politics and history.
Not all Democrats are Antifa. Antifa is considered an organization by Republicans. The man is not in that organization. If he was, i am sure his employer would know about that and would fire him for being part of a “terror organization.” They had to have done a background check of his criminal record, his social media and tattoos and drug tested him as standard procedure.
It’s silly to say every Democrat is Antifa. That’s claiming Antifa is just an idea or it’s like saying every Republican is a white supremacist. Either you can show us evidence he is a part of this terror organization or you are simply labeling all Democrats terrorists especially if they have ever protested anything.
Under that logic, I guess all Republicans are civil war terrorists like those Michigan liberators. Round them all up for being anti US, for being the new ISIS.
“Not all Democrats are Antifa.”
Democrats refuse to denounce Antifa, even with video evidence.
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck… Antifa.
“Antifa came about with Trump not with Obama”
Those black bloc anti-capitalist anarchists were definitely around during the Obama administration.
Here they are five years ago. It’s the same people as today.
I guess a professional security business doesn’t do background checks or doesn’t care the man is a Democrat. I guess the government also agreed as they gave him his license.
Space Invaders is now Antifa? Japanese arcade games are communist.
Let’s just ignore what the Trump supporter was doing before he made physical contact with the guard.
Matt Dolloff is no security professional. He’s a hobby farmer with a fair bit of skill with firearms, and he’s as Marxist as his Comrade, Chief Commie.
This!
1. Kyle Clark, NBC 9, is Antifa.
2. Shooter has ‘space invaders against racism/fascism’ tattoo on right wrist.
3. There’s a picture of victim standing still, slapping shooter in the face, shooter’s feet are moving and he’s reaching for victim, possibly victim’s pepper spray.
4. Victim moves back 4-5′ as shooter draws AIWB, victim deploys pepper spray, shooter blows his head off.
My guess (and it’s only an educated guess at this point) is that after Black Guns Matter failed to start a fight with victim, Clark moved in to pick a fight with him, then ‘Pinkerton’ moved in for the kill. Victim slapped Pinkerton away, then backed away from them.
Take a look at their feet, and where they are in relation to the fence.
Loath as I am to repost anything from 4chan here the following montage is actually damn good at showing you how the distance is opening, not closing, when the shot is fired.
Mr. Pink probably deserves that murder charge. I’m just hoping the Metro doesn’t get too spicy. I have some business to get done in that area this week.
[Warning: the last three images in this slideshow are pretty graphic.]
You may have to finagle that link a bit to avoid a bot-check loop.
Honestly impressed that worked, thanks for making that happen and yes every now and again the chans put out better reports than anything I ever got from the S2…….. who when bored likely was on there anyway.
Thanks for the post of 4chan. They do get it right a lot of time. It’s just that they seem to be the only ones that are trying.
I don’t see how this can possibly be a good shoot. Since both sides were in retreat. After the slap.
And if the security guard is there to protect the reporters? Then why is the guard even engaging with this idiot? I don’t see this idiot attacking the reporters.
I think the shooter is going to prison for a very long time.
@Chris
Pretty much. Compare this to the retired Marine working the same job months ago. He managed to disarm two people with stolen police patrol rifles, disable the rifles, keep his charges safe, evac multiple blocks on foot, return the rifles to the police and do so without firing a shot.
And he did that smack dab in the middle of a full blown riot.
Under Colorado, and particularly Denver law, the shooter is probably fucked and he deserves it. Denver’s kind of a sketchy place to carry, as is Boulder in some regards, so you better have your ahit screwed on tight. He didn’t, and for that the price is usually very steep.
Sooo, is pepper spray a deadly force assault or not?
We seem to have several results , depending on on who is praying and who gets sprayed.
In Portland, throwing IEDs at cops isn’t a reason to use deadly force.
According to Kenosha County DA (and Albuquerque) , clubbing you in the head with a skateboard isn’t a reason to use deadly force.
Wow. I didn’t know fireworks are now IEDs. ISIS can save a lot of money and risk.
Light an M-80 then place it on a surface 1ft away and level with your face. Flinching is cheating. Alternatively, do the same but hold it in your open hand. Now do it with a closed hand. Now do it with it resting against your leg. If you’re unwilling to do any of those, consider that its probably a dick move to throw them at someone.
Oh, look, it’s Chief Commie, making excuses for and minimizing the actions of Marxist terrorists again. When you use fireworks mortar shells as offensive weapons, either by throwing them at law enforcement officers or using them to ignite gasoline bombs, you’re using them as IEDs.
In CA improper use of pepper spray is a felony. Was this improper use?
Looks more like antifa wanted to murder someone and the victim went non lethal when he should have went nuclear.
Spraying somebody who’s pointing a gun at you is ‘improper use’?
Maybe in California, but not in Colorado.
Attacking a guy for holding pepper spray at low ready (waist level), and shooting him when he open hand slaps you to get you to back off gets you booked for murder within 8 hours in Denver. Somebody’s baby is going to get a nice college fund from NBC9 and Pinkerton’s, if Pinkerton’s is involved.
Lat comment was the first thing I thought when I read the story. Victim’s family should soon own a news organization and a security firm.
Normally no, but if you use it against someone with a firearm, it’s a very reasonable conclusion you’re doing it to steal their gun after disabling them and thus ARE a deadly threat, especially in light of the recent mob violence. Look at the case of the guy who stole the taser at the Wendys (also the cop couldn’t tell in the dark and heat of the moment the guy they didn’t search was still using the stolen taser instead of having pulled a firearm, but that’s beyond this comparison). At the *very* least I expect a defense attorney to raise the argument of such.
Any offensive use of pepper spray is potentially lethal.
For example I think it’s reasonable to assume the offensive use of pepper spray will be followed by an attack WHILE I’m disabled. A person willing to use pepper spray to disable a non threatening person is likely to beat them while defenseless after.
It’s also reasonable to assume an unprovoked pepper spray attack is prelude to armed robbery.
There have been a few federal cases where OC spray has been found to be a lethal weapon , mostly involving its use in bank robberies.
Tear gas and pepper spray can create serious, even life threatening complications in people with underlying heart or lung conditions, like asthma or COPD.
Who says pepper spray is non lethal?
Cops say it’s okay to shoot a man dead if he attempts to grab their taser. If that constitutes self defense, then it is arguable that bear spray rises to meet that threshold. The argument being the taser could be used on the cop and then the cop could be attacked while he can’t properly defend himself. Being sprayed will definitely incapacitate to an extent. If the man with the spray is armed, it would rise to the level of a reasonable belief the person sprayed could be shot considering he was already struck and sprayed, as in the force continuum is playing out.
Additionally, the security guard was outnumbered by an armed group the man was with. They had knives clearly visible and a man took out a baton to use against the black male. The black male was being threatened by the crowd to the point he felt the need to warn them through inference he would shoot them if attacked. The security guard saw this happening and did his job of trying to protect others before he then became a victim himself by the main agitator causing the whole force continuum.
I would say the man has a good argument if the bear spray attacker had a handgun on him and there is evidence the man was there to start trouble via violence.
Let’s not forget that Colorado is anti gun and anti self defense.
They will argue the man was menacing a black male and was anti BLM. The black male was wearing a Black Guns Matter shirt, the anti BLM man was angry about it and was trying to harm the black male. While the armed crowd started to surround the black male a private security contractor told the anti BLM male to put the mace down. The anti BLM male then aggressively approached the armed security guard saying “mother fucker” and open palm strikes the security when he tried to stop the male from spraying him. The anti BLM male was intentionally wearing rings on his hands as a makeshift brass knuckle weapon. The security guard then drew his gun because he saw the anti BLM male wearing a shoulder holster with a gun on his left side. The anti BLM male then sprayed the security guard who was clearly presenting a gun and giving lawful commands to put down the mace. The security guard then fired one shot in defense of himself after two physical assaults from a man armed with a gun, mace and makeshift brass knuckles.
Not sure that argument will work in Colorado. I guess it will depend on the totality rather than mace versus gun. The argument had a higher chance of success with the Patriot Prayer shooting because that was at night with a known violent gang who was actively seeking assaults.
It should go to court. I will not be surprised he is found not guilty, but is banned from security firms out of the risk versus reward factor.
“Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.” The man should have listened to the Black Guns Matter guy warning him if he fucks around he is going to find out.
Thank the two of you above me for sharing some details. Awful. If those are true, I hope they draw and quarter the son of a bitch.
Who is the guy wearing the Black Guns matter shirt? Who are the others?
Is he Antifa, part of the security, or ??
BGM is on video trying to instigate a fight with the ‘right wingers’. Yelling, screaming, etc.
Dead guy squares off against him, somebody moves in between them, BGM starts yelling at and shoving the peacekeeper in the middle, dead guy walks off, within seconds (bout seven seconds IIRC) you hear spray and gunshot.
“Don’t touch me!” says BGM guy as he shoves dude. These people are nuts.
I’m glad to see someone else noticed that.
The POS instigator/escalator makes physical contact with an armed citizens, while saying “don’t touch me man”.
He knows where the camera is, and follows the “push” with a “pointed finger” in the face. This gives the appearance of just pointing a finger to those casually observing the video (exactly how 99.999% of the public will view it).
My thought exactly, everybody there was nuts. And all were looking for trouble. LE has too much to do, should just announce “who cares?” and go on about their business.
FFS, that’s been going on since 2015.
The other camera angles appear to show bear spray man’s buddy pushing the black man and the bear spray man away from each other. That made the black man more angry because he is the one being touched when the bear spray guy is the one threatening physical assault.
Words are not violence. Regardless what the left says. The leftist are the ones that shout “words are violence” and “silence is violence.”
“Words are not violence.”
Oh yes they are.
If you write or say something that hurts my feelings, or my beliefs, you just committed violence…which is implicit in the word “hurt”, as in inflict, as in damage, as in harm, as in frustrate, as in unfair, as in not getting my way.
To hurt someone, you must use violence. Words are violence. Even you saying words are not violence hurts my feelings and my beliefs.
You are such a meany, someone should find you, and publish your name and address. And favorite alcoholic beverage (and if it is not near-beer, you hurt me all over again).
So, there. Wah.
Now Chief Commie is sticking up for Black Guns Matter guy, who has been seen trying to start fights at multiple political events in Denver in the past.
If you want to know who’s in the wrong, just look at who Chief Commie is carrying water for.
Claimed by some to be the shooter, but if so, he appears to have had time to change into a plain black T-shirt.
Definitely not the shooter.
There’s a huge difference between Black Guns Matter dude (fair skinned black man I believe) and 5’11”, 145lb white shooter.
Black Guns Matter dude has been doing this at virtually every Denver event with significant conservative presence. Arfcomers are accusing him of being a paid instigator, working in concert with Kyle and Matt, or both.
Right. Because a Maj Toure supporter is a paid agitator getting his money straight from the Jewish people. Can’t wait to hear the accusations that it was all a conspiracy to destroy “Western” civilization.
That POS is no more a Maj supporter than Chief Commie is a 2A supporter.
His BGM shirt is nothing more than cover.
Only thing that surprises me, is that it took this long for the sh*t to start! No matter who shot who(m), the puppet masters are salivating today. It’s all coming to fruition!!!
Stay the f* away from these “protests.” Engaging with these commies at this point in time is a lose-lose proposition. Let the left shoot themselves in the face with this violence. They are creating Trump voters in vast swaths of the population.
Meanwhile, keep adding to your supplies as you can. If this does come to a head in the future, right now it’s better to be quiet and prepared than confrontational and dead.
I understand your reasoning…but you’re wrong.
Patriots scheduled a rally / protest. Antifa crashed the party. THEY want you to stay home. Intimidation, threats, violence. If you win the streets you will likely win the war.
The trick is containing yourself while they goad you on…if you snap, they will claim victim status. Think of them as the tantrum ridden, fatherless children they are.
Be there. Be calm. Watch your 6. Don’t go alone.
There are many more sane people than these immature little f* commies. There are maybe ten thousand of these shits across the country. They think they will win the streets, but when it comes to a head, they won’t. Now is not the time. The time is when they have succeeded in breaking down the rules that protect them. They want to rule by violence, but their numbers will not allow that.
Stock up, get or stay in shape, practice, network with your neighbors. And do it quietly. Don’t brag on social media or otherwise attract attention to yourself.
“Don’t brag on social media…”
Don’t incriminate yourself on social media…
FIFY
Then Patriots should have settled the question on the spot. Demanding the whole nation get involved in your personal pissing contest has gotten old, leave me out. Any taxpayer money should be spent cleaning up the mess, including cremation without ID or services and tossing the resulting dust pile onto the street.
Sometimes the best strategy to become the king of the hill is to stand back and let the fools fight.
You can’t assault someone because they said mean words to you. It’s America, we have the right to speak and the right to self defense. If you don’t like that you can move to Canada.
Exactly.
Be polite, de-escalate, disengage. Remove yourself from the situation in a CALM and ORDERLY manner.
This is the ONLY proper behavior for a responsible LTC/CHL holder.
Remember, polite, de-escalate, disengage.
If you’re attacked in a manner in which YOU feel YOUR life (or the lives of friends/family in your group) is in imminent danger, neutralize the threat ASAP!
Take the shot, own the shot. Say NOTHING to the arresting officers, make no comments or statements to anyone. DO NOT unload OR put down the firearm until LEO are approaching the scene, and then place it at your feet, so you can grab it should another person attempt to grab it and use it on you.
“Be polite, de-escalate, disengage. Remove yourself from the situation in a CALM and ORDERLY manner.”
Agreed, but there are some people out there who won’t let you walk away, and Antifa and BLM appear to be that type.
I think that’s covered in the second half of his comment.
His mom hasn’t gotten him out of bed for breakfast yet.
This whole thing is craziness.
The cops literally watched it happen. They were standing there pointing at the situation and talking. Only when the man was shot did they intervene. The police were given orders to keep the two groups separated to prevent violence. The cops just stood there too lazy to walk over and stop the arguing.
Man. Talk about mis direction. The fascist waving signs claiming they aren’t fascists.
Antifa, by word and deed, are brown shirts. And fascism has no place in a free society. It’s past time that they were destroyed.
Isn’t this what they always do? They call themselves the opposite of what they really are. Just like the “Democratic Republic of xyz” in Africa and Asia. Put the words “children, poverty, soup drive, animals, nature, democratic” and you can be a professional scam artist, or ruthless dictator and you get favorable news coverage.
Pretty much everything out of their mouths have been lies, but not to worry, half the country believes them.
the little blm punk could have been easily dipatched with a slapjack..after i put him to sleep i would have shoved a bar of soap in his foul mouth…
the so-called contractor is toast…he will have a long time to go over it in his head with big bubba and axel..
He was armed. “Fuck around and find out.” “Black guns matter.”
Be careful who you mess with. Democrats are now becoming more armed than Republicans. Record numbers of gun sales and carry licenses all because of the Democrats tooling up. By the way, they love their arm brace rifles.
I don’t know who is what but pepper spray is used to incapacitate someone! So use it on me I’m gonna shoot you, period!
I totally agree.
In a situation where there are multiple agitated people around, and a firearm has been presented in a defensive manner, it is TOTALLY reasonable for the armed person to fear it being take away and used against him, post pepper spraying.
IMO, It wouldn’t be too difficult for a defense attorney to convince a jury of LEVEL HEADED citizens of that.
This detail might not matter much in this situation, so much was done wrong.
“IMO, It wouldn’t be too difficult for a defense attorney to convince a jury of LEVEL HEADED citizens of that.”
Ah, there’s the rub.
“Ah, there’s the rub.”
Yes, I actually went back and added those two words….”LEVEL HEADED”, before posting my comment.
So much was done wrong
Yeah, the aggressors don’t get to go to guns and claim self defense.
1. Kyle gets in Lee’s face (I’m assuming) and starts yelling ‘spray me’.
2. Matthew rushes Lee, grabs for his spray can (held down low in non-threatening position).
3. Lee slaps Matthew as he backs away from Matthew.
4. Matthew draws Glock. Lee stupidly yells ‘shoot me’ (sounds like Jo Rosenbaum there).
5. Lee aims spray at Matthew as Matthew aims Glock at him.
6. Lee triggers spray, Matthew immediately shoots Lee in response to the spray.
Lee’s actions aren’t perfect, but Matthew’s are assaultive and Lee’s are mostly defensive.
“Yeah, the aggressors don’t get to go to guns and claim self defense.”
Escalators are included in this rule too.
This should be FIRST and FOREMOST in the minds of EVER person carrying ANYTHING that can be defined as a weapon.
Totality shows mace man was the aggressor. He was told to put it down, he got angered by those words, then went after the man that told him that. That man ended up being an armed guard.
Imagine the bear spray was a handgun. If you take it out of the holster and hold in your hands during an argument, you cannot claim defense. Words are not violence. The kid could have insulted your dead mom, still not violence. Using bear spray in such a manner can be considered felony use and a violent felony.
I disagree. In all of the photos and video I’ve seen it looks to me like antifa security tries to grab the bear spray, gets bitch slapped, draws and fires, and bear spray guy raises and deploys bear spray in defense because that is what is in his hand and there is no time for anything else.
Hey The Crimson Pirate, just ignore CC.
No need for further investigation or any other opinions (Sarc)……..”Totality shows mace man was the aggressor.” Sez CC.
Good thing we have CC here to tell everyone not to believe their own lying eyes.
Hey CC, GFY and STFU!
Trump/Pence 2020
For clarity, the shooter attempted a strongarm robbery (grabbing at the victims property) that the victim thwarted with a bitch slap. Around 2 seconds later the strongarm robber shoots his victim dead!
Deadly use of a firearm during the commission of a robbery!
Not looking good for Shitbird!
Trump/Pence 2020.
Sooo…don’t take pepper spray to a gun fight??? Got it😏 Did they arrest the right dude? I dunno enough about it.
He’s in jail on a 1st degree murder charge as of last night.
Breonna’s boyfriend was booked for attempted murder of an officer.
Why didn’t he shoot him in the leg?
Shouldn’t the TV station have hired a conflict-resolution-specialist instead of an armed guard
Use their rules against them.
This.
Based on the mace in the air, second pic: he’s already been shot. The pistol is working through the beginning of recoil. AND based on the pic montage, he got popped in the head. Two much blood pooling in the eye sockets.
make that too. Damn autocorrect. The sheriffs look geared up enough to take Takrit.
Good catch on the slide position on the top photo. Based on the video, I heard the spray first, immediately followed by one gunshot, then the guy drops. But in the top phot there’s no obvious injury to the dead guy’s face??? is it possible that the top photo was taken while the bullet was in mid-air? Yikes.
And if I got it right that also means that the dead guy sprayed someone with a drawn gun. Bad move.
Lesson of the day: gun > bear spray
Lesson on the day when this shitbird shooter hears the “Guilty of Murder in the First Degree” verdict in court?
Getting bitch slapped while trying to grab a can of pepper spray out of another persons hands is NOT sufficient grounds to pull your handgun and kill the person who slapped you.
IF you feel YOUR life is in danger while being confronted by someone with pepper spray, SHOOT them.
DO NOT attempt to take the can away, fail at the attempt while getting bitch slapped, THEN shoot them. In this scenario, a case will be made that the shooter DID NOT fear for his life while being confronted with pepper spray. The shooter made a conscious decision to remove the pepper spray from his victim (having ABSOLUTELY no right to act in this manner, it is NOT his property). Shooter then responding to the failed snatch attempt that resulted in a bitch slap (which was a result of HIS improper actions) by pulling his firearm and killing the person he JUST attempted to remove personal property from.
In NO way is this a justified defensive shooting, shitbird shooter is totally screwed!
The pistol is finishing it’s recoil and nearly back to battery. You can see the ejected case above the RMR.
Shows up better in the higher rez photos like this one:
Oh, and yes that means what you’re probably thinking. The guy with the MACE already has a bullet in his face, it’s just covered by the other stuff.
Cycle time on a Glock like that is about 0.05 seconds. Assume it’s a 19, so 9mm, toss in Critical Duty for your guess (not that it much matters at this range) time to target ~0.0105 seconds. So the bullet hit the guy like 0.03 seconds ago when that picture was taken.
Good analysis. But due to the angle it’s tough to say how far the empty casing has traveled, so could the slide still be traveling backwards? Not that it really matters, in the greater scheme of things.
Life lesson: Don’t pepper spray a guy who’s pointing a gun at you.
And follow the law of the three stupids: don’t go to stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things. He could have walked away with his life.
Nah. If the slide is moving rearward, the chamber would not be open enough for the casing to have been ejected. Slide has to be moving forward unless a second round was fired.
What LarryinTX said. And only one shot was fired.
The gun’s action is on the return stroke and has mostly completed it.
I will never carry pepper spray. If a situation is so dangerous that I can’t disengage and need to defend myself with force, I won’t be using a can of Mace.
This!
If your life is threatened, use deadly force until the threat is neutralized!
Pepper spray does NOT neutralize a threat, it only disorients the threat, so someone WITH PROPER TRAINING can go “hands on” and secure the person. That’s the LEO and professional security personnel, NOT the average CHL/LTC holder.
Something to think about…how would you explain to a jury that you DIDN’T escalate the situation after having to shoot someone you FIRST pepper sprayed. Here’s you orange jumpsuit and cell, this is your new cellmate…..
Rules to live by;
1) never bring mace to a gunfight.
2) stay away from stupid people in stupid places doing stupid things.
3) OODA loop, ALWAYS!
Observe – Look, stupid people in a stupid place doing stupid things.
Orient – This could get ugly.
Decide – I’m going home to watching college football instead.
Act – Leave (alive).
In the normal world, pepper spray primarily fills two roles.
1. For dealing with an aggressive dog. I’d rather pepper spray somebody’s dog than shoot it.
2. Women who don’t want to carry a gun (like my wife). Pepper spray is better than nothing.
I spend a lot of time in public open spaces here in CA. I would much rather use pepper spray on an aggressive animal than have to explain my pocket carry j frame.
Been a while since I actually had to spray a dog.
Last incident that came close, homeowner doing some yardwork close to road, GSD comes into the road growling at me. I pull spray, hold low behind my hip and freeze. My dog freezes. GSD sniffs my dog, my dog sniffs GSD, owner calls her dog back into her yard, I put spray back in my pocket and continue my walk. Felt a little better being that close to an aggressive strange dog having a can of OC in hand and ready to rock, but it was not a situation that would call for drawing a handgun.
Police have a use for pepper spray as they have to arrest people who may pose some threat not but a lethal threat.
Other than that I see pepper spray as almost useless against anything on 2 legs. If I’m on my own time minding my own business and someone attacks me I’ll choose between my hands or a gun depending on their threat… I’m not bringing intermediate stuff into the equation. If I’m being assaulted and the threat is beyond fisticuffs, it’s turned into a gunfight.
And if the other person decides to continue the assault once I am armed and warning them to cease… they have chosen poorly.
All spot on.
“I’m not bringing intermediate stuff into the equation”
BRILLIANT! When a CHL/LTC holder uses “escalating levels of force” (such as pepper spray), it’s viewed by a jury as that person not REALLY feeling their life was in danger, and having actually ESCALATED the confrontation toward it’s deadly conclusion.
This sh!t is throughly gone over in every CHL/LTC class I’ve ever attended. Also gone over IN DETAIL at the annual member seminars held by CHL insurance providers.
Why do so few on TTAG remember this?
Trump/Pence 2020.
While I am always “prepared” to defend myself, both personally and while in my vehicle, avoiding a fight is the best way to win. I have 4 kids that depend on me.
Funny enough, a few months ago I got rid of sports sedan and bought a 4wd truck. One of the reasons was that it provides more options to escape if necessary.
Get yourself a stout bumper with brush guard. Damage to your fenders, grill and radiator will disable your vehicle, making escape impossible.
Add a winch and a snatch-strap to escape soft earth…
Does high centered on a pile of bodies count as ‘soft dirt’?
Re: winch
Correction: Winches, plural. Front and rear, less time necessary for now complicated rigging should you need to pull from the opposite end.
Still on first cup of joe….Clarification please….
The victim is wearing a BLM shirt?? Is it an anti blm shirt, I can’t tell. Is he part of the “PATRIOT” group.
The headshot victim is part of a “Patriot Rally”. The shirt is anti-BLM but I have not yet seen a picture or video where I can figure out exactly what it says.
Why was he fighting with the guy in the “black guns matter “ shirt ? That’s usually worn by the patriot pro 2a side.
Are we sure the victim wasn’t on the left ? Has he been identified ?
Thats what was throwing me off.
“Are we sure the victim wasn’t on the left ? Has he been identified ?”
Yeah, he’s called “dead, right there”. Unloved, unhonored, and unsung. Bluff called. Prize awarded.
I don’t think anyone there knew what side they were supposed to be on, some ended up dead, others in deep shit, all who were intelligent were not there.
So… I can’t speak to the specifics of that incident.
What I can tell you is this:
These goings-on in Denver are complicated and involve a lot of actors from outside Denver. The Springs and suburbs mostly, notably Aurora. Front Range politics are, uh, blurry at best.
As such you find odd mixes of political views in some cases and this is likely an example. Some BLM folks are big into guns to defend against what they perceive as a likely threat of racist white gun owners and I’ve witnessed some of them argue with RMGO/NRA folks on topics that initially seem to make little sense until you realize that a Black Guns Matter shirt around here might be a sign that someone is a vocal liberal who owns guns a la the John Brown Gun Club and see the shirt as a “twofer” on “structural racism” and guns.
You also find intentional mixed messaging sometimes. Once you recognize it sometimes the purpose is obvious and sometimes it’s more subtle.
Back in the day here I took a bit of a razzing for an EDC with a Patagonia messenger bag in it. There’s a reason for me doing that kind of thing. Some shit you might wear can get you into some really odd situations, like the guys with NRA shirts and RMGO stickers arguing loudly with a BGM shirt guy in a parking lot. It’s easier in many ways to not publicly signal an opinion on these things and only discuss them in any detail with people you actually know because you never know when someone who flies the “friendly” flag might not actually be all that friendly.
Interesting place to live.
The politis of Denver and the metro area are quite interesting, as you report, but who is “Kyle” at 9News, and why should we care?
Sam:
Kyle Clark is an anchor/reporter for News9. He’s got an internet history that some might describe as “inappropriate” in terms of BLM, Antifa and other fairly Lefty groups.
It’s been alleged that he was the one being guarded by the shooter but I have seen no good evidence to support that. It was also alleged that he was the other person, a News9 employee, who was taken into custody and later released. That appears to be false as the person taken in for questioning was apparently a producer.
Ultimately I’m not sure what, if anything, Kyle Clark has to do with this specific incident. He’s a local media personality and a bit of a controversial figure. There are those in the Front Range who see a lot of Left-leaning political bias at News9 generally and…. Look, they’re an NBC affiliate and in some regards they try to make their local reporting palatable to the larger NBC crowd/company as well as the residents of the City of Denver.
There’s a huge chasm in these sorts of opinions in Colorado and it’s essentially geographic. People around me tend to detest News9 and will never give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially since it was just a bit over two months ago they canned an employee for calling the Feds “Nazis” on air.
Does Colorado have the same “metro” v. rural split as California?
Years and years ago, I was assigned to Cheyenne Mountain in C-Springs. As part of a hosting delegation for dignitaries from California, I sat at a dinner table with a bunch of swells who were claimed to be influential persons. One of the guests was explaining that on a recent trip to Aspen, he was appalled at how the New Yorkers had driven-up land prices in the Aspen area. Being non-PC, I asked why that was a problem for him. After some sylabic nonsense, I noted, “So, you are upset that you will have to pay a higher price for the land you intend to sell to some slob from California, after the prices are even higher?”. The “swell”, responded, “It’s just good business”.
“Does Colorado have the same “metro” v. rural split as California?”
I can’t say it’s a one-to-one comparison because I’m not that familiar with California itself having not been there in over a decade but essentially “yes”. Yes in quotes because it’s getting more and more blurry. We get A LOT of people from California here and generally they start renting an apartment in the Metro or a house and then buy a house somewhere else.
So, for example, I live outside of a town which has expanded quite a bit in the last five years. Basically it’s what you’d expect; developer buys some farmland and throws up a neighborhood of 1/4 acre plots. So there are a couple of them on the Southern edge of town which are almost exclusively people from places like Cali.
The result of this is that formerly rural areas that were “red” are increasingly becoming “blued” by pockets of relatively high-density development sold almost exclusively to people from outside the state and a huge percentage of those people are actually from Cali.
You find this kind of thing in *random* (it’s mostly based on price) places too. Like if you travel out 70 to the East towards Kansas you’ll find a couple big developments like this out by a town called Byers which is about 50 miles East of the furthest Denver suburbs. Just out there in the middle of farm country and all built in the last two years.
I remember passing through the Aurora wrought iron portal on Colfax, headed east. Not much out that way until Kansas City.
My favorite “town” was Punkin Junction, way southeast of Denver.
BLM= You’re Fucking Right, Biker Lives Matter (not entirely sure of exact wording, but that’s the gist of it)
I read he was a biker that showed up to confront the left because he wasn’t afraid. He was wearing an anti BLM shirt that was about bikers’ lives matter. He arrived after the right wing rally finished.
A “Biker’s Lives Matter” shirt, in Colorado, is not proof of an anti BLM attitude. It could easily be anti cager or simply pro-motorcycle.
“I read he was a biker that showed up to confront the left because he wasn’t afraid”
Citation please.
Citation?
WTF CC, it’s only been around 20 hours.
On the first guy, who didn’t get shot, who is having the verbal altercation and wearing the Black Guns Matter shirt; Black Guns matter is Maj Toure’s organization out of Philly. He spoke at the PA judiciary committee hearings Life Savor and I attended. Seriously pro 2A, and has been around the pro 2A activist scene for a while. His group is not at all an NFAC type bunch of morons. So I would guess this tool bought the T shirt and actually has nothing to do with BGM.
On the victim, he is wearing some kind of BLMish shirt. It might be a satire of BLM. Can anyone find out what it is and who he is?
As others have pointed out, the shot breaks right as, or right before the pepper spray is being deployed. There is no justification for the shot. There is no threat of death or serious bodily harm.
I will say that if Antifa deployed pepper spray, it would be justification for a defensive shoot. Antifa/BLM have a long and well documented history of beating and killing people as a mob. Trump/Police supporters have ZERO history of beating or killing people as mob.
And finally, Score Keeping.
Good Guys 5
Commies -5
Score break downs
Good Guys
(1 for AK commie shot in Austin, .5 for Seattle Antifa Bike Punch, 1 for Portland stabber lady, -1 for Machete comes to Dallas, 1 for multiple Antifa beaten after attacking wheelchair veteran, 2 commies dead and 1 wounded by 17 YO in Kenosha)
Commies
(NFAC shot 3 of their own, Aurora protester wounded 2 other protesters and another jumped off a bridge, -2 for Playing in Traffic in Seattle, +1 for Portland driver crashed and beaten, +1 for PP member shot in Portland, +1 for Patriot Muster guy shot by Antifa/Reporter/TV Station Security?)
If you assault me once, I pull a gun out to defend myself and you assault me again with a blinding agent, you are now a deadly threat. You are trying to impair my vision so that you can take my gun.
If you’re stupid enough to ‘mace’ someone pointing a gun at you, you deserve everything you get.
but what if the first “assault” against you was a defensive measure because you reached to take away my self defense pepper spray?
And I am quite sure that at least half the people who are going to pretend like this was a homicide would think exactly the opposite if it were some moron antifa twerp who slapped and then tried to mace an armed ‘patriot prayer’ member or other rightest organization. I know this because I saw what y’all wrote when someone smacked a kid with a skateboard and got shot.
And I was right there with you. But it’s funny how quickly someone isn’t allowed to defend themselves from attack when they no longer fit your political mold. Remember how everyone says “an armed society is a polite society”? Apparently not because this idiot attacked someone twice, once after it was clear he was armed.
When you F around with an armed man, guess what you find out?
Find me an instance of a crowd of pro police and/or Trump supporters beating someone senseless, or to death. I’ve been watching antifa do it multiple times over more than 5 years.
It’s not hypocrisy. The evidence is different for the two sides.
Oh, you are so right, the right wing protesters and Trump supporters never assaulted any one, the news stories prove they are just a group of local choir boys collecting money for the poor:
Rolling StoneWeb resultsProud Boys Maxwell Hare and John Kinsman Sentenced to Four Years
Willamette WeekRight-Wing Brawler Tusitala “Tiny” Toese Is Wanted for Violating …
Statesman Journal › 2020/09/08Pro-Trump Rally: Men arrested for alleged attack on counter-protesters
Yahoo › news › watch-proud-b…WATCH: Proud Boys brutally beat Black Lives Matter protesters after …
The New York Times2 Proud Boys Sentenced to 4 Years in Brawl With Anti-Fascists at …
The Daily Beast › video-proves-pro…Video Proves Proud Boys Initiated October Attack on NY Antifa: NYT
Newsweek › … › Donald TrumpWeb resultsProud Boys Repeatedly Rush, Attack Black Lives Matter Supporters in …
Links bitch.
Those were links when I posted it, sorry they didn’t survive the posting.
But all you have to do is copy and paste the title into Google and smack that search button to find out more.
And such language, I hope you keep the basement door shut so your mother isn’t offended by your salty language.
“Private security guard” has antifa tats and a long social media history of being affiliated with Occupy and other antifa-aligned groups. Strains credibility that such an individual would pass a background check for an executive protection job and get put in the field with a gun amid a march by people he has a documented social media history of hating.
I’m glad to learn that a so-called antifa tattoo equals an antifa member.
Ergo, the police officer who shot Tamir Rice was wearing a confederate flag T-shirt under his uniform shirt so obviously, he’s a racist who support slavery of black folks.
So you are admitting that the shooting of Tamir Rice was justified and had nothing to do with racism. Thank you.
The soon-to-be prison inmate – soft-tush with nick name “DoughyLoff,” might not be antifa – but it’s definite he is a Bernie-bro. And a Bernie-bro is a stone throw away from a green or pink haired minimum wage uneducated Antifa clown.
The shootee was involved in a tense verbal confrontation with the guy in the “BLACK GUNS MATTER” shirt. I suspect that the BGM guy was advocating more for Black people to be settled than against regulation of Black rifles. Some guy worthy of extreme respect was intervening to moderate this verbal confrontation. Shootee withdraws off camera to the right. Shootee is shot almost immediately. I perceive that there was no time for shootee to do anything to anyone that would justify sudden escalation to deadly force.
IMHO, this was another assassination by ANTIFA / BLM radicals.
Before shootee withdrew screen right, he could be seen to have can of mace out and ready to deploy, I thought for a minute he was going to spray “Black Guns Matter” guy. He was there for a fight, just figured he was going to be the bully. Bad judgement, won’t happen again!
“an armed society is a polite society”
I don’t believe it’s true but maybe society is a little more polite today now that another LARPing fat dude has learned what happens when you try and bully people with your stupid bear mace. That seems to cross political lines.
“an armed society is a polite society”
“I don’t believe it’s true…”
The phrase is shorthand: “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
– – Robert A. Heinlein
In the book, Beyond This Horizon, it was not uncommon to open carry a weapon, and personal affronts were not easily excused away, often resulting in what we may think of as duels. The point being with a majority of sensible people ready to defend themselves and their sense of honor with a deadly weapon, one doesn’t lightly suppose that brash, reckless effrontry of others will be riskless…quite a different “society” from today’s privileged children.
In the photos and video I have seen the security guy tries to grab the can of mace which is low and at the victims side. The victim avoids the grab and bitch slaps the security guy. Security guy draws and fires with no justification. The victim raises and sprays his can of bear spray in defense as it is what he has in his hand. In the photos you can clearly see the gun is going back into battery while the spray is proliferating. The victim was spraying about the same time he was already dead.
“sensible people ready to defend themselves and their sense of honor with a deadly weapon”
Sam, I guess that’s where we differ.
I don’t think it is reasonable to ‘defend one’s sense of honor’ with a deadly weapon.
Anyone who employs a lethal weapon because their ‘sense of honor’ has been offended is a violent thug who needs to be incarcerated for a very long time while receiving psychotherapy for their personality disorders.
That sense of entitlement over some distorted concept of masculine honor is exactly why I don’t believe every American citizen should have the right to carry a gun.
I don’t think it is reasonable to ‘defend one’s sense of honor’ with a deadly weapon.
Well – Then do nothing and keep your mouth shut when I’m shafting you from behind.
With guns, we are ‘citizens’; without them, we are ‘subjects’.
Matthew Doloff was booked on 1st Degree Murder.
Doloff was BLM, ANTIFA and Occupy Denver. Complete Marxists.
9 News should have vetted him even though he came from a private security firm.
The membership showed he was a supporter of the cause. That was all the vetting the station needed.
They knew who he was my guess.
He didn’t have a Denver Security Guard License. In addition you need an armed guard endorsement.
City of Denver said he has never been in the system. I doubt Pinkerton send him to 9 news without the license. Something else going on here.
A slap and bear spray doesn’t justify Lethal Force.
“…9 News should have vetted him…”
WHAT?
They don’t bother vetting any of the agitprop they spew, why on earth would they bother vetting a security hire. 🤣
They did vet him. He’s an antifa Bernie Bro with the tats and bumper stickers and face book posts to prove it. He fits right in with the culture and ideology at any lamestream media organization.
Thanks.
I had not heard that detail.
Last I heard the station was shifting all the blame to Pinkerton.
Trump/Pence 2020.
I heard the shooter tried to take the guys pepper spray and that resulted in the shooter getting slapped in the head.
Yes, exactly right.
This escalation of the situation (by the shooter) was around 2 seconds before the shooter increased his level of force (pulled his firearm) and shot the victim.
This is IN NO WAY a justifiable defensive shooting. The shooter had no legal authority to remove the pepper spray can from his victim. For clarity, the victim was holding the can at waist level, pointing it toward the ground, when the shooter attempted the grab and got his bitch slap. The action was a CLEAR escalation of the situation by the shooter.
He should never see the outside of a prison cell after his trial.
Trump/Pence 2020
it looks that way from the series of pics on 4chan linked above. that changes things very much from a legal standpoint.
👍
Just don’t tell CC or whiner, they’ll tell you not to believe your own eyes! 🙄
Trump/Pence 2020
The truth is that this shit should have been stopped before it took place, two opposing group’s shouldn’t be allowed to protest at the same location to start with, the instant this was noticed, the justice system should have put a end to it, and been allowed to do so by any means necessary, no matter what the governor, mayor of that state had to say, to many stupid people in high office’s, that needs to be removed, if you’re wanting to really slow down crime, the punishment must be stricter, not a slap on the ass, these protests are alright as long as they are peacefully done, and the first sign of violents, should revolk their rights to ever protest again, if they are caught back protesting are causing trouble, they are charged with a felony and sentenced to a minimum of 5 years in prison without perroll no exceptions, if murder occurred and founded guilty that it wasn’t self-defense or protection of your properties, and u, friends, family are in harm’s way, the murder will meet their maker within 24 hrs, no exceptions, stiffer penalties is what is necessary. AMEN
Hmmmm. Sounds like a king giving over reaching demands to some colonists. Wait, I think I known this story?
Years ago two opposing demonstrations would always be kept apart. Cops only started letting letting them into each others space or even pushing them together since 2015 or so.
“It has been the practice of 9NEWS for a number of months to hire private security to accompany staff at protests,” the station said.
Wait a second…. why would 9NEWS have been hiring private security to accompany staff to all these PEACEFUL protests?
How many news stations are hiring private security for their reporters while also telling everyone the protests are peaceful? Wouldn’t it be fun if someone made that kind of information public?
I wonder if the FCC can pull their License and put the entire company off the air?
They hired the armed security because they went to a right wing protest. The left decided to show up to do a counter protest via a food donation gathering.
It was a soup drive.
Then they allegedly threw canned soup at the cops.
Now I know why they organized a counter protest as a food drive.
He didn’t have a City of Denver License. He’s never even been in the system.
Big deal in Denver.
He’s got his whole life ahead of him (sitting in a jail cell), to contemplate the errors of his ways. Good thing he’s only in his 20s, because that list is loooooooooong.
Trump/Pence 2020
Is 9NEWS going to have a poll over a name change? Pravda or Izvestia?
Remember a while back there was an incident where an antifa guy grabbed an AR from a burning cop car somewhere and a security contractor there protecting reporters took it away from him?
Seems like it’s been going on since early in the unrest.
It’s a good shoot. All better now? All were looking for trouble, some found it, it’s all good, my tax dollars do not need to be involved in any way. When an innocent is harmed, let’s get re-involved.
So the main stream media is hiring security guards while at the same time wanting to ban guns…….Hypocrisy at it’s finest!
Law suit against the TV station for renting guns that they should of known this would happen. I see premeditation on the part of the MSM & a hate crime on top of it!
Going to one of these things doesn’t seem particularly prudent. Going armed and putting oneself in a position of high risk, where emotions are high is just plain foolish. Since I carry, if I were to go to something like this, I’d carry concealed and I would do NOTHING other than be on the sidelines not participating in the drama, only observing.
Sure it looks like murder but it also looks like they both did the monkey dance. Dumb.
So much for pepper spray
Pepper spray has it’s purpose.
Works great for spicing up bland mexican food. 😆
Serge left once the riots started. He hasn’t been back since. He is too busy protesting for communism.
PEOPLE SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE , SOME SEE WHAT THE MEDIS WANTS THEM TO SEE YOU SHOULD ALL STFU
We can now confirm security dude was antifa. How? chief sensor showed up to claim he isn’t and defend his actions.
I posted a video from Trump supporter Tim Pool. He explains to the older crowd. You don’t have to take my word, you can take his.
Tim Pool is hardly what I would call a Trump supporter. He’s stated for months he isn’t voting for Trump and only recently stated he might vote for him because the Dems have gone absolutely bananas and allowed the fringe of the party to seize the platform. He’s a centrist and reluctant Trump supporter at best, which makes his takes good for a middle of the road perspective.
FIX YOUR HEADLINE! He shot the guy first, casing is already ejected from the gun when spray is deployed. And he’s no security guard, doesn’t have a license in Colorado.
Everyone was wrong here , should have maced the one guy laughed and walked away..he kept saying mace me
Mace Mr BLM laugh and walk away
Wow the comment section here she has been infiltrated by commies. If any of you commies commenting here want a free helicopter ride, I’m available.
You know I always used to say that helicopter rides are expensive but bullets are cheap. But then 2020 happened, and bullets are probably more expensive than helicopter rides at this point.
As long as you aren’t promising Islamic plane rides; The take off is fine, but none of pilots learned how to land.
Thanks, but I’ve had plenty of ‘free’ chopper rides.
I can understand how that might be an exciting thing for an adolescent like yourself, but most of us old folks done been there and seen the elephant.
Shooter could have very easily walked away and de-escalated.
Bad DGU in my book.
Even if it’s a good DGU, he’s going to get to go to jail, lose his guns, and pay a lawyer.
I would bet the shooter didn’t even have carry insurance. Dumb as dog sh!t!
DON’T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!
Jolly pirate, I suggested no such thing.
in fact, my statement was:
“ … obviously, he’s a racist who support slavery of black folks.”
The police officer also was psychologically unfit for duty, and had been discharged from other police departments because of his erratic behavior.
The photo used in this article shows the shell casing being ejected. He was drawn on before pepper spraying. The victim said, “Put it away”, as in, put your gun away, as it was drawn from the holster. He was shot right as he raised up the can of pepper spray. This was a bad shoot and mr. Antifa is going away for a long time.
Cops are still saying they find no evidence of an Antifa link to this guy. So far that claim remains an invention of the internet.
He was not a licensed security guard in the city of Denver. Colorado leaves licensing requirements to lower levels of government. Presenting himself as a security guard could carry a fine of $999 and a year in jail. That’s besides being on trial for murder.
There are no doubt lawyers just salivating to sign up the dead guy’s relatives on this one. The TV station and the Pinkertons will be seen as having deep pockets and whatever the connection to the shooter, they will leverage that for every cent they can scrape up.
Alright – serious question time – why is it if you disagree with BLM/Antifa you are a Trump Support and conversly, why do you have to be a BLM/Antifa supporter if you dislike Trump….??????
There are more than 2 parties – and people can dislike both, right? So I am confused by rhetoric and name calling like it is some kind of math class 1+1=Trump/BLM/Antifa…
Seriously, are you all really this dumb, or just play one on the internet?
extreme polarization like we have today creates binary thinking.
in normal times maybe it isnt quite so bad, but when the people sense they are at an inflection point for society this happens.
AGAIN, Sequencing of “ACTIONS” under pics is screwed up. Verbal with Chem spray canister in plain sight, Slap, Draw gun, Chem sprayed , Fire gun.
The shitbird killer went “hands-on” first too.
Enjoy cuddling with your cellmate shitbird!
Since 2 guns were found it is reasonable to realize that the guy spraying the mace may have been reaching for his gun or threatening to go for his gun while using the pepper spray to render the guard defenseless.
Informative post! This is a great share thank you
Useful post! I really need this type of article.. this is very useful for me.
Nice information!
Sic Semper Trumpgoobers.
This is a tragedy, but, I’m all for this shoot, if Mr. Mace was the aggressor and sprayed the security guard unprovoked. It’s a good shoot to me. But the same rules should be applied for the right – not just the left.
Antifa throw a brick at you?
Shoot them.
Antifa approach you with a bike lock?
Shoot them.
BLM guy spray you with mace or try to KO you?
Shoot them.
Antifa/BLM knock-out game?
Shoot them.
Antifa hit you with a skateboard?
Shoot them.
BLM try to Reginald Denny you?
Shoot them.
All for it! People need to learn to keep their hands to themselves and if the masses witness a few hooligans getting perforated. Good.
The photos posted elsewhere show Mr Sunglasses Security tried grabbing the can of mace before it was deployed, was slapped in the face, knocking his sunglasses and hat askew, and then drew and fired.
“After Being Pepper Sprayed” is the obvious defense for the shooter. All he has to say is he was blinded by the spray and in fear for his life and the gun went off blindly. Doesn’t mean he will walk.
Even though such big gulp size spray cans say they have a long range they do not work well against most anyone with firearm. Calling the shooter a “Security Guard” is far fetched to say the least.
Was he grabbing the mace after being threatened with it ? That would likely make this a justified shoot. When used OFFENSIVELY mace attacks can be justification for lethal force.
The guy with the mace appears to be menacing others prior to the shooting.
And it appears the Trump supporter was armed with a handgun too (in a shoulder holster). The police say they seized two guns after the shooting.
It’s looking more like a defensive gun use. The man was threatening violence, may have been touching someone else, hit the guard, sprayed guard and was carrying a sidearm at the time.
“if Mr. Mace was the aggressor and sprayed the security guard unprovoked.”
The shot was heard immediately after you hear the spray, so the gun was already out and probably on target. That means mace guy makes the decision to spray someone at distance that’s pointing a gun at him which seems pretty dumb in that particular situation. Throwing his hands up probably would have saved his life, and 100% Antifa-BLM guy still would have gone to jail.
The shooter is a professional contractor with a very famous security firm. He is not Antifa. He may be a Democrat, but most people are, especially people his age.
“He is not Antifa.”
He has an Antifa tat. He’s Antifa.
Show me *anyone* who isn’t Antifa rocking an Antifa tat…
@Geoff
Hear it from one of your favorite right wing grifters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6FtvzED4Ms
“Hear it from one of your favorite right wing grifters.”
I just did. He’s an admitted Leftist rocking an Antifa tat.
Ergo, *Antifa*…
To Chief sensor
If a guy has a swastika tattoo he’s a Nazi. If a guy has an antifa tattoo he’s antifa/communist.
@cc A very famous security firm with a very long history of hiring people of very questionable morality to do very shady things.
“Chief Censor says:
October 11, 2020 at 15:27
The shooter is a professional contractor with a very famous security firm. He is not Antifa”.
Wow CC, that didn’t age well?
Less then 24 hrs later and everything you stated has been proven wrong.
At least you’re consistent.
How about a citation to where you read the victim went to that event looking for trouble.
It will be my pleasure to prove that as nothing but bullshit too!
Don’t be around stupid people doing stupid things in stupid places.
They were all doing variety of stupid things.
That’s stupid. People are too stupid NOT to do STUPID things.
Just looking at the available info, the Patriot Prayer guy looks to be wrong AF. If you OC someone unprovoked or over some bullshit verbal altercation then you deserve the bullet same as if you tried to beat them with your hands. The fact is the defendant has no idea what level of violence you’re escalating to and it isn’t his job to find out. Attack people get slotted, I don’t care if our politics agree or not.
Actually, it looks like Chief Commie is still a lying Commie sack of shit, and another one of his Commie Comrades assassinated another member of Patriot’s Prayer.
If Chief Commie thinks anybody here believes a word he says when he repeats his Commie talking points, he’s sadly mistaken.
Oh look… someone’s making up for their Daddy Issues….it’s so cute.
“Trumpgoobers” huh? You’re one of those idiots that thinks that throwing molotovs and burning cities is protected as “protest” 😂
I bet you also believe what the liberal media tells you to believe, at face value, withour question. Cause you’re a gullible idiot. You sheeple think it’s a tragedy when rapists and violent drug addicts (like Jacob Blake and George Floyd) get shot and killed but are totally fine with this. You’re all such hypocritical morons and mindless drones. You don’t even know why you don’t like Trump. It’s only cause liberal propaganda told you not to like him.
Well… what the fuck? Very interesting.
Michelle Malkin has the timeline in her twitter feed.
Killer was in the Occupy movement, doxxed by 4chan thru his wrist tat. Bernie supporter via his bumper sticker.
Not a defensive trained person IMO, no “2 shots to the chest”
Murdercrats gonna murder.
Indeed. I have a question though. If the shooter was there as security for the press, why was he getting into it with this guy? Was the mace guy attacking his clients?
I got a different question, I thought that many tats made you bulletproof?! If not, WTF is the point?
The crosses didn’t seem to save the man.
I thought violence and hate were anti Christian values?
The man was menacing the black guy and cussing up a storm. He physically attacked the security when told to stop. It appeared the man had a shoulder holster with a handgun to go along with the bear spray.
The man sprayed the security guard when he started to draw down. The bullet appeared to pass through the man’s hand, then into his right cheek.
https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/TDP-L-RALLY_874-2.jpg
The man was arguing with a black guy who was wearing a “Black Guns Matter” shirt. The guy in the shirt was inferring he had a gun. People started to surround the black guy, those people had knives and other weapons. The guy with the bear spray was angry and cussing, but figured the black guy was armed with a gun. So the mace guy went after a white guy that told him to put down the mace. The mace guy then hit the private security contractor, knocking his hat and glasses off his face. The security guard drew his gun from the appendix position. The mace man then sprayed the armed guard. The security shot the man in the face with one shot.
It appeared the guard was carrying a gun with a threaded barrel, suppressor height sights, a light and a red dot. He worked for a very popular contractor and was hired by the local 9 news.
Mace man may have also had a gun. He was wearing some kind of anti BLM shirt and a bunch of rings. Apparently he thought he could bully people and assault them like Patriot Prayer did. Ended up with the same results, but this time it was a pro that shot him in the head with a single shot.
I hope there isn’t a third Trump voter who thinks they can bully and assault people. We don’t need to see this for a third time. Do not felony menace and assault people over Trump, Antifa and black lives.
https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/TDP-L-RALLY_865.jpg
You’re a fkn turd….stfu
I am surprised you aren’t in a mental ward.
1) The BLM guy was bullying people as they were leaving and calling everyone the N word.
2) The security guy is there to protect his client. He was not hired to get involved in was clearly non-lethal until he got involved. He certainly didn’t de-escalate the situation.
This one’s gonna be sooo juicy.
DPD ain’t playing on this they hit the Pinkerton with 1st degree murder around midnight.
And so now we know that 4chan was right before the news was because we know damn right well who the shooter is.
The Pinkerton security guard has ties to Antifa so deep he has tats proclaiming it and social media posts about this shit going back years. The journalist in question has known Antifa on the socials claiming he’s “one of them” long before this went down and follows them on socials like a damn puppy. And News9? Oh, man do they have some… uh, issues *cough* with their staff being violent leftist assholes. They fired a meteorologist recently over a little case of arson.
This one’s gonna be a hoot.
Yet the police wasted no time claiming that the shooter definitively has no ties to Antifa. That was a quick investigation. It’s hard to use the Charlottesville incident to point to the violent right when BLM and Antifa lefties are going around assassinating political enemies and cops. The media will continue to ignore the violence from one side and elevate the other.
The cops initially reported an Antifa connection and then retracted that about 15 minutes after a Lefty state legislator went on a Twitter rant about them saying it.
Pretty weird to have someone who’s got “no Antifa connection” yet has Antifa tattoos.
I’m having a bit of a problem with being so “Down with the struggle” that you willingly volunteer to spend the rest of your life (possibly up to 50 fucking YEARS) in a cage staring at a concrete wall.
What’s the attraction? “I really showed him!”?
He’s hoping on being released as “a hero of the revolution” after the overthrow.
Geoff:
I don’t think this is a case of being “so down”, nor is it what some have claimed in terms of an “assassination”. I think two hot-heads got into it in a difficult situation and in the end both will pay an extremely heavy price.
Based on the current totality of evidence and the fact that DPD has other video which seems to have led them to a murder charge here’s my opinion based on how Colorado actually operates and how Denver operates in particular. [Full disclosure; I had my own encounter with an attacker in Denver’s jurisdiction but I was in a far better legal situation because in my case the other guy had a knife and had attacked other people, which I had immediate foreknowledge of. There’s no debate in Colorado law as to weather or not the knife in this incident constituted a “deadly weapon”. It did. The outcome of that incident is he’s worm-food and I’m not. I didn’t use a firearm because I didn’t have time to deploy it. It was hand-to-hand from start to finish. However, this incident and the resulting interaction with DPD tells me a bit about how this goes down in Denver. Well… that and my lawyer at the time…]
======
Biker guy has a heated confrontation as reporter and his guard are entering the immediate area. The biker guy breaks off the heated encounter and happens to travel directly towards the reporter and guard with a can of mace in his hand.
At that point based on most of the evidence I have on hand I think the guard probably made a very serious mistake and overreacted to the presence of the mace. Seeing it as a threat to himself or his charge he moved forward and tried to disarm the biker. At that point the biker slapped him, which was legally permissible based on the guard’s action(s). At that point both people backpedal and the biker brings up the can of MACE while the guard draws a gun and we kinda know the rest.
The problem with that is that in Colorado just having a can of mace in your hand isn’t illegal, but one must admit that it’s sort of suspicious behavior. So, if the guard “sees it as a threat”, that’s all well and good but the guard crosses the legal line and becomes the aggressor if he tries to take the can away from the biker unless the biker issued a threat to use the mace, and even then in Colorado the guard is generally justified in drawing but he has to take a *defensive* posture at that point or stand his ground, he can’t move the overall situation “forward” in an aggressive manner that ratchets up the threat level to himself or someone else.
What I suspect happened here based on the background of the guard is that he’s not disciplined and he let his preconceived notions of the man in front of him cloud his judgement, panicked and cross the legal line from defender to aggressor. In doing so he unfortunately killed someone and that makes this murder.
It’s been suggested that the biker also had a concealed firearm. Barring further information to the contrary this information is entirely superfluous to this incident. Unless the biker specifically mentioned the gun in a threatening way the guard probably didn’t know he had it and even if he did a weapon that’s not being deployed or for which there is no reasonable threat of deployment (verbal, he reaches for it etc.) is not something you can shoot someone over.
*That* explanation makes sense.
This will likely go to trial, then, and we’ll see the video evidence…
Cops say Antifa dude kills Trump dude.
Commie politician dude complains, says cops smeared Antifa.
Channel 9 Antifa dude (Kyle Clark, detained by cops along with Matthew the shooter) says Matt isn’t Antifa, he’s a Channel 9 News Security Contractor (hired by Kyle because he’s Kyle’s fellow traveler/co-conspirator)
Cops say killer dude (with easily verified Antifa/Occupy history and Antifa tattoo on his wrist) isn’t Antifa, because Kyle and a politician told them so.
They are just so SLY! Who could ever figure this out! And, of course, if he (they) are not antifa, then the murder will be forgiven, no harm done, right? You cannot make this shit up.
Antifa came about with Trump not with Obama. If being at Occupy Wall Street makes you Antifa, is Tim Pool now Antifa? What about Peter Schiff?
Let’s just make every shooting political because that will work out well. Let’s not look at what happened, just look at who did it. Democrats have no rights, correct?
Chief Commie:
Antifa came about in the 1920s, before Hitler.
Kyle hired Matt because Matt has long term street cred as a leftist organizer in Denver going over ten years back. If you’re trying to disassociate him from Antifa, I don’t think anybody here is going to believe you.
We are not talking about the anti fascist group in Europe who was setup to fight Nazis. We are talking about American politics and history.
Not all Democrats are Antifa. Antifa is considered an organization by Republicans. The man is not in that organization. If he was, i am sure his employer would know about that and would fire him for being part of a “terror organization.” They had to have done a background check of his criminal record, his social media and tattoos and drug tested him as standard procedure.
It’s silly to say every Democrat is Antifa. That’s claiming Antifa is just an idea or it’s like saying every Republican is a white supremacist. Either you can show us evidence he is a part of this terror organization or you are simply labeling all Democrats terrorists especially if they have ever protested anything.
Under that logic, I guess all Republicans are civil war terrorists like those Michigan liberators. Round them all up for being anti US, for being the new ISIS.
“Not all Democrats are Antifa.”
Democrats refuse to denounce Antifa, even with video evidence.
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck… Antifa.
“Antifa came about with Trump not with Obama”
Those black bloc anti-capitalist anarchists were definitely around during the Obama administration.
Here they are five years ago. It’s the same people as today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ms5uHO424
Like 9 years ago?
I guess a professional security business doesn’t do background checks or doesn’t care the man is a Democrat. I guess the government also agreed as they gave him his license.
Space Invaders is now Antifa? Japanese arcade games are communist.
Let’s just ignore what the Trump supporter was doing before he made physical contact with the guard.
Matt Dolloff is no security professional. He’s a hobby farmer with a fair bit of skill with firearms, and he’s as Marxist as his Comrade, Chief Commie.
This!
1. Kyle Clark, NBC 9, is Antifa.
2. Shooter has ‘space invaders against racism/fascism’ tattoo on right wrist.
3. There’s a picture of victim standing still, slapping shooter in the face, shooter’s feet are moving and he’s reaching for victim, possibly victim’s pepper spray.
4. Victim moves back 4-5′ as shooter draws AIWB, victim deploys pepper spray, shooter blows his head off.
My guess (and it’s only an educated guess at this point) is that after Black Guns Matter failed to start a fight with victim, Clark moved in to pick a fight with him, then ‘Pinkerton’ moved in for the kill. Victim slapped Pinkerton away, then backed away from them.
Take a look at their feet, and where they are in relation to the fence.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28207/slap1-1630252.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28207/slap2-1630253.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28207/slap3-1630254.jpg
Loath as I am to repost anything from 4chan here the following montage is actually damn good at showing you how the distance is opening, not closing, when the shot is fired.
Mr. Pink probably deserves that murder charge. I’m just hoping the Metro doesn’t get too spicy. I have some business to get done in that area this week.
[Warning: the last three images in this slideshow are pretty graphic.]
https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1602414191190.webm
You may have to finagle that link a bit to avoid a bot-check loop.
Honestly impressed that worked, thanks for making that happen and yes every now and again the chans put out better reports than anything I ever got from the S2…….. who when bored likely was on there anyway.
Thanks for the post of 4chan. They do get it right a lot of time. It’s just that they seem to be the only ones that are trying.
I don’t see how this can possibly be a good shoot. Since both sides were in retreat. After the slap.
And if the security guard is there to protect the reporters? Then why is the guard even engaging with this idiot? I don’t see this idiot attacking the reporters.
I think the shooter is going to prison for a very long time.
@Chris
Pretty much. Compare this to the retired Marine working the same job months ago. He managed to disarm two people with stolen police patrol rifles, disable the rifles, keep his charges safe, evac multiple blocks on foot, return the rifles to the police and do so without firing a shot.
And he did that smack dab in the middle of a full blown riot.
Under Colorado, and particularly Denver law, the shooter is probably fucked and he deserves it. Denver’s kind of a sketchy place to carry, as is Boulder in some regards, so you better have your ahit screwed on tight. He didn’t, and for that the price is usually very steep.
Sooo, is pepper spray a deadly force assault or not?
We seem to have several results , depending on on who is praying and who gets sprayed.
In Portland, throwing IEDs at cops isn’t a reason to use deadly force.
According to Kenosha County DA (and Albuquerque) , clubbing you in the head with a skateboard isn’t a reason to use deadly force.
Wow. I didn’t know fireworks are now IEDs. ISIS can save a lot of money and risk.
Light an M-80 then place it on a surface 1ft away and level with your face. Flinching is cheating. Alternatively, do the same but hold it in your open hand. Now do it with a closed hand. Now do it with it resting against your leg. If you’re unwilling to do any of those, consider that its probably a dick move to throw them at someone.
Oh, look, it’s Chief Commie, making excuses for and minimizing the actions of Marxist terrorists again. When you use fireworks mortar shells as offensive weapons, either by throwing them at law enforcement officers or using them to ignite gasoline bombs, you’re using them as IEDs.
In CA improper use of pepper spray is a felony. Was this improper use?
Looks more like antifa wanted to murder someone and the victim went non lethal when he should have went nuclear.
Spraying somebody who’s pointing a gun at you is ‘improper use’?
Maybe in California, but not in Colorado.
Attacking a guy for holding pepper spray at low ready (waist level), and shooting him when he open hand slaps you to get you to back off gets you booked for murder within 8 hours in Denver. Somebody’s baby is going to get a nice college fund from NBC9 and Pinkerton’s, if Pinkerton’s is involved.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkCGW-mVcAIRQkf?format=jpg&name=medium
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/222783/1602401656463-1630311.png
Lat comment was the first thing I thought when I read the story. Victim’s family should soon own a news organization and a security firm.
Normally no, but if you use it against someone with a firearm, it’s a very reasonable conclusion you’re doing it to steal their gun after disabling them and thus ARE a deadly threat, especially in light of the recent mob violence. Look at the case of the guy who stole the taser at the Wendys (also the cop couldn’t tell in the dark and heat of the moment the guy they didn’t search was still using the stolen taser instead of having pulled a firearm, but that’s beyond this comparison). At the *very* least I expect a defense attorney to raise the argument of such.
Any offensive use of pepper spray is potentially lethal.
For example I think it’s reasonable to assume the offensive use of pepper spray will be followed by an attack WHILE I’m disabled. A person willing to use pepper spray to disable a non threatening person is likely to beat them while defenseless after.
It’s also reasonable to assume an unprovoked pepper spray attack is prelude to armed robbery.
There have been a few federal cases where OC spray has been found to be a lethal weapon , mostly involving its use in bank robberies.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-tear-gas-and-pepper-spray-affect-the-body
Tear gas and pepper spray can create serious, even life threatening complications in people with underlying heart or lung conditions, like asthma or COPD.
Who says pepper spray is non lethal?
Cops say it’s okay to shoot a man dead if he attempts to grab their taser. If that constitutes self defense, then it is arguable that bear spray rises to meet that threshold. The argument being the taser could be used on the cop and then the cop could be attacked while he can’t properly defend himself. Being sprayed will definitely incapacitate to an extent. If the man with the spray is armed, it would rise to the level of a reasonable belief the person sprayed could be shot considering he was already struck and sprayed, as in the force continuum is playing out.
Additionally, the security guard was outnumbered by an armed group the man was with. They had knives clearly visible and a man took out a baton to use against the black male. The black male was being threatened by the crowd to the point he felt the need to warn them through inference he would shoot them if attacked. The security guard saw this happening and did his job of trying to protect others before he then became a victim himself by the main agitator causing the whole force continuum.
I would say the man has a good argument if the bear spray attacker had a handgun on him and there is evidence the man was there to start trouble via violence.
Let’s not forget that Colorado is anti gun and anti self defense.
They will argue the man was menacing a black male and was anti BLM. The black male was wearing a Black Guns Matter shirt, the anti BLM man was angry about it and was trying to harm the black male. While the armed crowd started to surround the black male a private security contractor told the anti BLM male to put the mace down. The anti BLM male then aggressively approached the armed security guard saying “mother fucker” and open palm strikes the security when he tried to stop the male from spraying him. The anti BLM male was intentionally wearing rings on his hands as a makeshift brass knuckle weapon. The security guard then drew his gun because he saw the anti BLM male wearing a shoulder holster with a gun on his left side. The anti BLM male then sprayed the security guard who was clearly presenting a gun and giving lawful commands to put down the mace. The security guard then fired one shot in defense of himself after two physical assaults from a man armed with a gun, mace and makeshift brass knuckles.
Not sure that argument will work in Colorado. I guess it will depend on the totality rather than mace versus gun. The argument had a higher chance of success with the Patriot Prayer shooting because that was at night with a known violent gang who was actively seeking assaults.
It should go to court. I will not be surprised he is found not guilty, but is banned from security firms out of the risk versus reward factor.
“Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.” The man should have listened to the Black Guns Matter guy warning him if he fucks around he is going to find out.
Thank the two of you above me for sharing some details. Awful. If those are true, I hope they draw and quarter the son of a bitch.
Who is the guy wearing the Black Guns matter shirt? Who are the others?
Is he Antifa, part of the security, or ??
BGM is on video trying to instigate a fight with the ‘right wingers’. Yelling, screaming, etc.
Dead guy squares off against him, somebody moves in between them, BGM starts yelling at and shoving the peacekeeper in the middle, dead guy walks off, within seconds (bout seven seconds IIRC) you hear spray and gunshot.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Riots-and-looting-in-American-cities-and-worldwide-Floyd-Death-RIOT-SQUAD-/5-2331989/?page=2900
“Don’t touch me!” says BGM guy as he shoves dude. These people are nuts.
I’m glad to see someone else noticed that.
The POS instigator/escalator makes physical contact with an armed citizens, while saying “don’t touch me man”.
He knows where the camera is, and follows the “push” with a “pointed finger” in the face. This gives the appearance of just pointing a finger to those casually observing the video (exactly how 99.999% of the public will view it).
My thought exactly, everybody there was nuts. And all were looking for trouble. LE has too much to do, should just announce “who cares?” and go on about their business.
FFS, that’s been going on since 2015.
The other camera angles appear to show bear spray man’s buddy pushing the black man and the bear spray man away from each other. That made the black man more angry because he is the one being touched when the bear spray guy is the one threatening physical assault.
Words are not violence. Regardless what the left says. The leftist are the ones that shout “words are violence” and “silence is violence.”
“Words are not violence.”
Oh yes they are.
If you write or say something that hurts my feelings, or my beliefs, you just committed violence…which is implicit in the word “hurt”, as in inflict, as in damage, as in harm, as in frustrate, as in unfair, as in not getting my way.
To hurt someone, you must use violence. Words are violence. Even you saying words are not violence hurts my feelings and my beliefs.
You are such a meany, someone should find you, and publish your name and address. And favorite alcoholic beverage (and if it is not near-beer, you hurt me all over again).
So, there. Wah.
Now Chief Commie is sticking up for Black Guns Matter guy, who has been seen trying to start fights at multiple political events in Denver in the past.
If you want to know who’s in the wrong, just look at who Chief Commie is carrying water for.
Claimed by some to be the shooter, but if so, he appears to have had time to change into a plain black T-shirt.
Definitely not the shooter.
There’s a huge difference between Black Guns Matter dude (fair skinned black man I believe) and 5’11”, 145lb white shooter.
Black Guns Matter dude has been doing this at virtually every Denver event with significant conservative presence. Arfcomers are accusing him of being a paid instigator, working in concert with Kyle and Matt, or both.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/5-2377570/?r=88297021&qte=1#i88297021
Right. Because a Maj Toure supporter is a paid agitator getting his money straight from the Jewish people. Can’t wait to hear the accusations that it was all a conspiracy to destroy “Western” civilization.
That POS is no more a Maj supporter than Chief Commie is a 2A supporter.
His BGM shirt is nothing more than cover.
Only thing that surprises me, is that it took this long for the sh*t to start! No matter who shot who(m), the puppet masters are salivating today. It’s all coming to fruition!!!
Stay the f* away from these “protests.” Engaging with these commies at this point in time is a lose-lose proposition. Let the left shoot themselves in the face with this violence. They are creating Trump voters in vast swaths of the population.
Meanwhile, keep adding to your supplies as you can. If this does come to a head in the future, right now it’s better to be quiet and prepared than confrontational and dead.
I understand your reasoning…but you’re wrong.
Patriots scheduled a rally / protest. Antifa crashed the party. THEY want you to stay home. Intimidation, threats, violence. If you win the streets you will likely win the war.
The trick is containing yourself while they goad you on…if you snap, they will claim victim status. Think of them as the tantrum ridden, fatherless children they are.
Be there. Be calm. Watch your 6. Don’t go alone.
There are many more sane people than these immature little f* commies. There are maybe ten thousand of these shits across the country. They think they will win the streets, but when it comes to a head, they won’t. Now is not the time. The time is when they have succeeded in breaking down the rules that protect them. They want to rule by violence, but their numbers will not allow that.
Stock up, get or stay in shape, practice, network with your neighbors. And do it quietly. Don’t brag on social media or otherwise attract attention to yourself.
“Don’t brag on social media…”
Don’t incriminate yourself on social media…
FIFY
Then Patriots should have settled the question on the spot. Demanding the whole nation get involved in your personal pissing contest has gotten old, leave me out. Any taxpayer money should be spent cleaning up the mess, including cremation without ID or services and tossing the resulting dust pile onto the street.
Sometimes the best strategy to become the king of the hill is to stand back and let the fools fight.
You can’t assault someone because they said mean words to you. It’s America, we have the right to speak and the right to self defense. If you don’t like that you can move to Canada.
Exactly.
Be polite, de-escalate, disengage. Remove yourself from the situation in a CALM and ORDERLY manner.
This is the ONLY proper behavior for a responsible LTC/CHL holder.
Remember, polite, de-escalate, disengage.
If you’re attacked in a manner in which YOU feel YOUR life (or the lives of friends/family in your group) is in imminent danger, neutralize the threat ASAP!
Take the shot, own the shot. Say NOTHING to the arresting officers, make no comments or statements to anyone. DO NOT unload OR put down the firearm until LEO are approaching the scene, and then place it at your feet, so you can grab it should another person attempt to grab it and use it on you.
“Be polite, de-escalate, disengage. Remove yourself from the situation in a CALM and ORDERLY manner.”
Agreed, but there are some people out there who won’t let you walk away, and Antifa and BLM appear to be that type.
I think that’s covered in the second half of his comment.
His mom hasn’t gotten him out of bed for breakfast yet.
This whole thing is craziness.
The cops literally watched it happen. They were standing there pointing at the situation and talking. Only when the man was shot did they intervene. The police were given orders to keep the two groups separated to prevent violence. The cops just stood there too lazy to walk over and stop the arguing.
Man. Talk about mis direction. The fascist waving signs claiming they aren’t fascists.
Antifa, by word and deed, are brown shirts. And fascism has no place in a free society. It’s past time that they were destroyed.
Isn’t this what they always do? They call themselves the opposite of what they really are. Just like the “Democratic Republic of xyz” in Africa and Asia. Put the words “children, poverty, soup drive, animals, nature, democratic” and you can be a professional scam artist, or ruthless dictator and you get favorable news coverage.
Pretty much everything out of their mouths have been lies, but not to worry, half the country believes them.
the little blm punk could have been easily dipatched with a slapjack..after i put him to sleep i would have shoved a bar of soap in his foul mouth…
the so-called contractor is toast…he will have a long time to go over it in his head with big bubba and axel..
He was armed. “Fuck around and find out.” “Black guns matter.”
Be careful who you mess with. Democrats are now becoming more armed than Republicans. Record numbers of gun sales and carry licenses all because of the Democrats tooling up. By the way, they love their arm brace rifles.
I don’t know who is what but pepper spray is used to incapacitate someone! So use it on me I’m gonna shoot you, period!
I totally agree.
In a situation where there are multiple agitated people around, and a firearm has been presented in a defensive manner, it is TOTALLY reasonable for the armed person to fear it being take away and used against him, post pepper spraying.
IMO, It wouldn’t be too difficult for a defense attorney to convince a jury of LEVEL HEADED citizens of that.
This detail might not matter much in this situation, so much was done wrong.
“IMO, It wouldn’t be too difficult for a defense attorney to convince a jury of LEVEL HEADED citizens of that.”
Ah, there’s the rub.
“Ah, there’s the rub.”
Yes, I actually went back and added those two words….”LEVEL HEADED”, before posting my comment.
So much was done wrong
Yeah, the aggressors don’t get to go to guns and claim self defense.
1. Kyle gets in Lee’s face (I’m assuming) and starts yelling ‘spray me’.
2. Matthew rushes Lee, grabs for his spray can (held down low in non-threatening position).
3. Lee slaps Matthew as he backs away from Matthew.
4. Matthew draws Glock. Lee stupidly yells ‘shoot me’ (sounds like Jo Rosenbaum there).
5. Lee aims spray at Matthew as Matthew aims Glock at him.
6. Lee triggers spray, Matthew immediately shoots Lee in response to the spray.
Lee’s actions aren’t perfect, but Matthew’s are assaultive and Lee’s are mostly defensive.
“Yeah, the aggressors don’t get to go to guns and claim self defense.”
Escalators are included in this rule too.
This should be FIRST and FOREMOST in the minds of EVER person carrying ANYTHING that can be defined as a weapon.
Totality shows mace man was the aggressor. He was told to put it down, he got angered by those words, then went after the man that told him that. That man ended up being an armed guard.
Imagine the bear spray was a handgun. If you take it out of the holster and hold in your hands during an argument, you cannot claim defense. Words are not violence. The kid could have insulted your dead mom, still not violence. Using bear spray in such a manner can be considered felony use and a violent felony.
I disagree. In all of the photos and video I’ve seen it looks to me like antifa security tries to grab the bear spray, gets bitch slapped, draws and fires, and bear spray guy raises and deploys bear spray in defense because that is what is in his hand and there is no time for anything else.
Hey The Crimson Pirate, just ignore CC.
No need for further investigation or any other opinions (Sarc)……..”Totality shows mace man was the aggressor.” Sez CC.
Good thing we have CC here to tell everyone not to believe their own lying eyes.
Hey CC, GFY and STFU!
Trump/Pence 2020
For clarity, the shooter attempted a strongarm robbery (grabbing at the victims property) that the victim thwarted with a bitch slap. Around 2 seconds later the strongarm robber shoots his victim dead!
Deadly use of a firearm during the commission of a robbery!
Not looking good for Shitbird!
Trump/Pence 2020.
Sooo…don’t take pepper spray to a gun fight??? Got it😏 Did they arrest the right dude? I dunno enough about it.
He’s in jail on a 1st degree murder charge as of last night.
Breonna’s boyfriend was booked for attempted murder of an officer.
Why didn’t he shoot him in the leg?
Shouldn’t the TV station have hired a conflict-resolution-specialist instead of an armed guard
Use their rules against them.
This.
Based on the mace in the air, second pic: he’s already been shot. The pistol is working through the beginning of recoil. AND based on the pic montage, he got popped in the head. Two much blood pooling in the eye sockets.
make that too. Damn autocorrect. The sheriffs look geared up enough to take Takrit.
Good catch on the slide position on the top photo. Based on the video, I heard the spray first, immediately followed by one gunshot, then the guy drops. But in the top phot there’s no obvious injury to the dead guy’s face??? is it possible that the top photo was taken while the bullet was in mid-air? Yikes.
And if I got it right that also means that the dead guy sprayed someone with a drawn gun. Bad move.
Lesson of the day: gun > bear spray
Lesson on the day when this shitbird shooter hears the “Guilty of Murder in the First Degree” verdict in court?
Getting bitch slapped while trying to grab a can of pepper spray out of another persons hands is NOT sufficient grounds to pull your handgun and kill the person who slapped you.
IF you feel YOUR life is in danger while being confronted by someone with pepper spray, SHOOT them.
DO NOT attempt to take the can away, fail at the attempt while getting bitch slapped, THEN shoot them. In this scenario, a case will be made that the shooter DID NOT fear for his life while being confronted with pepper spray. The shooter made a conscious decision to remove the pepper spray from his victim (having ABSOLUTELY no right to act in this manner, it is NOT his property). Shooter then responding to the failed snatch attempt that resulted in a bitch slap (which was a result of HIS improper actions) by pulling his firearm and killing the person he JUST attempted to remove personal property from.
In NO way is this a justified defensive shooting, shitbird shooter is totally screwed!
The pistol is finishing it’s recoil and nearly back to battery. You can see the ejected case above the RMR.
Shows up better in the higher rez photos like this one:
https://www.gettyimages.ae/detail/news-photo/man-sprays-mace-as-another-man-fatally-fires-a-gun-in-news-photo/1279577446?adppopup=true
Oh, and yes that means what you’re probably thinking. The guy with the MACE already has a bullet in his face, it’s just covered by the other stuff.
Cycle time on a Glock like that is about 0.05 seconds. Assume it’s a 19, so 9mm, toss in Critical Duty for your guess (not that it much matters at this range) time to target ~0.0105 seconds. So the bullet hit the guy like 0.03 seconds ago when that picture was taken.
Good analysis. But due to the angle it’s tough to say how far the empty casing has traveled, so could the slide still be traveling backwards? Not that it really matters, in the greater scheme of things.
Life lesson: Don’t pepper spray a guy who’s pointing a gun at you.
And follow the law of the three stupids: don’t go to stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things. He could have walked away with his life.
Nah. If the slide is moving rearward, the chamber would not be open enough for the casing to have been ejected. Slide has to be moving forward unless a second round was fired.
What LarryinTX said. And only one shot was fired.
The gun’s action is on the return stroke and has mostly completed it.
I will never carry pepper spray. If a situation is so dangerous that I can’t disengage and need to defend myself with force, I won’t be using a can of Mace.
This!
If your life is threatened, use deadly force until the threat is neutralized!
Pepper spray does NOT neutralize a threat, it only disorients the threat, so someone WITH PROPER TRAINING can go “hands on” and secure the person. That’s the LEO and professional security personnel, NOT the average CHL/LTC holder.
Something to think about…how would you explain to a jury that you DIDN’T escalate the situation after having to shoot someone you FIRST pepper sprayed. Here’s you orange jumpsuit and cell, this is your new cellmate…..
Rules to live by;
1) never bring mace to a gunfight.
2) stay away from stupid people in stupid places doing stupid things.
3) OODA loop, ALWAYS!
Observe – Look, stupid people in a stupid place doing stupid things.
Orient – This could get ugly.
Decide – I’m going home to watching college football instead.
Act – Leave (alive).
In the normal world, pepper spray primarily fills two roles.
1. For dealing with an aggressive dog. I’d rather pepper spray somebody’s dog than shoot it.
2. Women who don’t want to carry a gun (like my wife). Pepper spray is better than nothing.
I spend a lot of time in public open spaces here in CA. I would much rather use pepper spray on an aggressive animal than have to explain my pocket carry j frame.
Been a while since I actually had to spray a dog.
Last incident that came close, homeowner doing some yardwork close to road, GSD comes into the road growling at me. I pull spray, hold low behind my hip and freeze. My dog freezes. GSD sniffs my dog, my dog sniffs GSD, owner calls her dog back into her yard, I put spray back in my pocket and continue my walk. Felt a little better being that close to an aggressive strange dog having a can of OC in hand and ready to rock, but it was not a situation that would call for drawing a handgun.
Police have a use for pepper spray as they have to arrest people who may pose some threat not but a lethal threat.
Other than that I see pepper spray as almost useless against anything on 2 legs. If I’m on my own time minding my own business and someone attacks me I’ll choose between my hands or a gun depending on their threat… I’m not bringing intermediate stuff into the equation. If I’m being assaulted and the threat is beyond fisticuffs, it’s turned into a gunfight.
And if the other person decides to continue the assault once I am armed and warning them to cease… they have chosen poorly.
All spot on.
“I’m not bringing intermediate stuff into the equation”
BRILLIANT! When a CHL/LTC holder uses “escalating levels of force” (such as pepper spray), it’s viewed by a jury as that person not REALLY feeling their life was in danger, and having actually ESCALATED the confrontation toward it’s deadly conclusion.
This sh!t is throughly gone over in every CHL/LTC class I’ve ever attended. Also gone over IN DETAIL at the annual member seminars held by CHL insurance providers.
Why do so few on TTAG remember this?
Trump/Pence 2020.
While I am always “prepared” to defend myself, both personally and while in my vehicle, avoiding a fight is the best way to win. I have 4 kids that depend on me.
Funny enough, a few months ago I got rid of sports sedan and bought a 4wd truck. One of the reasons was that it provides more options to escape if necessary.
Get yourself a stout bumper with brush guard. Damage to your fenders, grill and radiator will disable your vehicle, making escape impossible.
Add a winch and a snatch-strap to escape soft earth…
Does high centered on a pile of bodies count as ‘soft dirt’?
Re: winch
Correction: Winches, plural. Front and rear, less time necessary for now complicated rigging should you need to pull from the opposite end.
Still on first cup of joe….Clarification please….
The victim is wearing a BLM shirt?? Is it an anti blm shirt, I can’t tell. Is he part of the “PATRIOT” group.
The headshot victim is part of a “Patriot Rally”. The shirt is anti-BLM but I have not yet seen a picture or video where I can figure out exactly what it says.
Why was he fighting with the guy in the “black guns matter “ shirt ? That’s usually worn by the patriot pro 2a side.
Are we sure the victim wasn’t on the left ? Has he been identified ?
Thats what was throwing me off.
“Are we sure the victim wasn’t on the left ? Has he been identified ?”
Yeah, he’s called “dead, right there”. Unloved, unhonored, and unsung. Bluff called. Prize awarded.
I don’t think anyone there knew what side they were supposed to be on, some ended up dead, others in deep shit, all who were intelligent were not there.
So… I can’t speak to the specifics of that incident.
What I can tell you is this:
These goings-on in Denver are complicated and involve a lot of actors from outside Denver. The Springs and suburbs mostly, notably Aurora. Front Range politics are, uh, blurry at best.
As such you find odd mixes of political views in some cases and this is likely an example. Some BLM folks are big into guns to defend against what they perceive as a likely threat of racist white gun owners and I’ve witnessed some of them argue with RMGO/NRA folks on topics that initially seem to make little sense until you realize that a Black Guns Matter shirt around here might be a sign that someone is a vocal liberal who owns guns a la the John Brown Gun Club and see the shirt as a “twofer” on “structural racism” and guns.
You also find intentional mixed messaging sometimes. Once you recognize it sometimes the purpose is obvious and sometimes it’s more subtle.
Back in the day here I took a bit of a razzing for an EDC with a Patagonia messenger bag in it. There’s a reason for me doing that kind of thing. Some shit you might wear can get you into some really odd situations, like the guys with NRA shirts and RMGO stickers arguing loudly with a BGM shirt guy in a parking lot. It’s easier in many ways to not publicly signal an opinion on these things and only discuss them in any detail with people you actually know because you never know when someone who flies the “friendly” flag might not actually be all that friendly.
Interesting place to live.
The politis of Denver and the metro area are quite interesting, as you report, but who is “Kyle” at 9News, and why should we care?
Sam:
Kyle Clark is an anchor/reporter for News9. He’s got an internet history that some might describe as “inappropriate” in terms of BLM, Antifa and other fairly Lefty groups.
It’s been alleged that he was the one being guarded by the shooter but I have seen no good evidence to support that. It was also alleged that he was the other person, a News9 employee, who was taken into custody and later released. That appears to be false as the person taken in for questioning was apparently a producer.
Ultimately I’m not sure what, if anything, Kyle Clark has to do with this specific incident. He’s a local media personality and a bit of a controversial figure. There are those in the Front Range who see a lot of Left-leaning political bias at News9 generally and…. Look, they’re an NBC affiliate and in some regards they try to make their local reporting palatable to the larger NBC crowd/company as well as the residents of the City of Denver.
There’s a huge chasm in these sorts of opinions in Colorado and it’s essentially geographic. People around me tend to detest News9 and will never give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially since it was just a bit over two months ago they canned an employee for calling the Feds “Nazis” on air.
Does Colorado have the same “metro” v. rural split as California?
Years and years ago, I was assigned to Cheyenne Mountain in C-Springs. As part of a hosting delegation for dignitaries from California, I sat at a dinner table with a bunch of swells who were claimed to be influential persons. One of the guests was explaining that on a recent trip to Aspen, he was appalled at how the New Yorkers had driven-up land prices in the Aspen area. Being non-PC, I asked why that was a problem for him. After some sylabic nonsense, I noted, “So, you are upset that you will have to pay a higher price for the land you intend to sell to some slob from California, after the prices are even higher?”. The “swell”, responded, “It’s just good business”.
“Does Colorado have the same “metro” v. rural split as California?”
I can’t say it’s a one-to-one comparison because I’m not that familiar with California itself having not been there in over a decade but essentially “yes”. Yes in quotes because it’s getting more and more blurry. We get A LOT of people from California here and generally they start renting an apartment in the Metro or a house and then buy a house somewhere else.
So, for example, I live outside of a town which has expanded quite a bit in the last five years. Basically it’s what you’d expect; developer buys some farmland and throws up a neighborhood of 1/4 acre plots. So there are a couple of them on the Southern edge of town which are almost exclusively people from places like Cali.
The result of this is that formerly rural areas that were “red” are increasingly becoming “blued” by pockets of relatively high-density development sold almost exclusively to people from outside the state and a huge percentage of those people are actually from Cali.
You find this kind of thing in *random* (it’s mostly based on price) places too. Like if you travel out 70 to the East towards Kansas you’ll find a couple big developments like this out by a town called Byers which is about 50 miles East of the furthest Denver suburbs. Just out there in the middle of farm country and all built in the last two years.
I remember passing through the Aurora wrought iron portal on Colfax, headed east. Not much out that way until Kansas City.
My favorite “town” was Punkin Junction, way southeast of Denver.
BLM= You’re Fucking Right, Biker Lives Matter (not entirely sure of exact wording, but that’s the gist of it)
I read he was a biker that showed up to confront the left because he wasn’t afraid. He was wearing an anti BLM shirt that was about bikers’ lives matter. He arrived after the right wing rally finished.
A “Biker’s Lives Matter” shirt, in Colorado, is not proof of an anti BLM attitude. It could easily be anti cager or simply pro-motorcycle.
“I read he was a biker that showed up to confront the left because he wasn’t afraid”
Citation please.
Citation?
WTF CC, it’s only been around 20 hours.
On the first guy, who didn’t get shot, who is having the verbal altercation and wearing the Black Guns Matter shirt; Black Guns matter is Maj Toure’s organization out of Philly. He spoke at the PA judiciary committee hearings Life Savor and I attended. Seriously pro 2A, and has been around the pro 2A activist scene for a while. His group is not at all an NFAC type bunch of morons. So I would guess this tool bought the T shirt and actually has nothing to do with BGM.
On the victim, he is wearing some kind of BLMish shirt. It might be a satire of BLM. Can anyone find out what it is and who he is?
As others have pointed out, the shot breaks right as, or right before the pepper spray is being deployed. There is no justification for the shot. There is no threat of death or serious bodily harm.
I will say that if Antifa deployed pepper spray, it would be justification for a defensive shoot. Antifa/BLM have a long and well documented history of beating and killing people as a mob. Trump/Police supporters have ZERO history of beating or killing people as mob.
And finally, Score Keeping.
Good Guys 5
Commies -5
Score break downs
Good Guys
(1 for AK commie shot in Austin, .5 for Seattle Antifa Bike Punch, 1 for Portland stabber lady, -1 for Machete comes to Dallas, 1 for multiple Antifa beaten after attacking wheelchair veteran, 2 commies dead and 1 wounded by 17 YO in Kenosha)
https://www.mystateline.com/news/national/17-year-old-suspect-charged-with-murder-after-2-deaths-in-kenosha-shootings/
https://www.dailywire.com/news/antifa-beaten-after-they-allegedly-went-after-man-in-wheelchair-you-guys-came-to-the-wrong-city
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/08/portland-antifa-cries-police-assistance-woman-appeared-harassing-stabs-one/
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/austin-motorist-shoots-kills-protester-with-rifle-after-crowd-stopped-his-car-video/
https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2020/07/24/antifa-cold-cocked-blocking-traffic/
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2020/06/09/police-give-additional-details-in-beating-of-machete-wielding-man-amid-dallas-protest/
Commies
(NFAC shot 3 of their own, Aurora protester wounded 2 other protesters and another jumped off a bridge, -2 for Playing in Traffic in Seattle, +1 for Portland driver crashed and beaten, +1 for PP member shot in Portland, +1 for Patriot Muster guy shot by Antifa/Reporter/TV Station Security?)
https://www.theepochtimes.com/one-dead-two-in-custody-after-gunfire-during-pro-trump-rally-counter-demonstration_3534085.html
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/one-dead-in-portland-shooting-after-antifa-trump-supporters-clash-video/
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1295235403847368704
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8561931/Jeep-speeds-Colorado-BLM-march-demonstrator-accidentally-shoots-two-protesters.html
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/07/26/nfac-shooting-louisville-being-investigated-negligent-shooting/5514492002/
https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/protests/protesters-hit-by-car-on-i-5/281-50f663e8-7adf-4a1a-873d-96540dbc624b
BLM Bikers Lives Matter t shirt
Thanks, you have the best score card. Good recap.
If you assault me once, I pull a gun out to defend myself and you assault me again with a blinding agent, you are now a deadly threat. You are trying to impair my vision so that you can take my gun.
If you’re stupid enough to ‘mace’ someone pointing a gun at you, you deserve everything you get.
but what if the first “assault” against you was a defensive measure because you reached to take away my self defense pepper spray?
And I am quite sure that at least half the people who are going to pretend like this was a homicide would think exactly the opposite if it were some moron antifa twerp who slapped and then tried to mace an armed ‘patriot prayer’ member or other rightest organization. I know this because I saw what y’all wrote when someone smacked a kid with a skateboard and got shot.
And I was right there with you. But it’s funny how quickly someone isn’t allowed to defend themselves from attack when they no longer fit your political mold. Remember how everyone says “an armed society is a polite society”? Apparently not because this idiot attacked someone twice, once after it was clear he was armed.
When you F around with an armed man, guess what you find out?
Find me an instance of a crowd of pro police and/or Trump supporters beating someone senseless, or to death. I’ve been watching antifa do it multiple times over more than 5 years.
It’s not hypocrisy. The evidence is different for the two sides.
Oh, you are so right, the right wing protesters and Trump supporters never assaulted any one, the news stories prove they are just a group of local choir boys collecting money for the poor:
Rolling StoneWeb resultsProud Boys Maxwell Hare and John Kinsman Sentenced to Four Years
Willamette WeekRight-Wing Brawler Tusitala “Tiny” Toese Is Wanted for Violating …
TMZ.com › 2020/09/08 › trum…Trump Supporters in Oregon Chase Down, Beat BLM Protesters
Statesman Journal › 2020/09/08Pro-Trump Rally: Men arrested for alleged attack on counter-protesters
Yahoo › news › watch-proud-b…WATCH: Proud Boys brutally beat Black Lives Matter protesters after …
The New York Times2 Proud Boys Sentenced to 4 Years in Brawl With Anti-Fascists at …
The Daily Beast › video-proves-pro…Video Proves Proud Boys Initiated October Attack on NY Antifa: NYT
Newsweek › … › Donald TrumpWeb resultsProud Boys Repeatedly Rush, Attack Black Lives Matter Supporters in …
Links bitch.
Those were links when I posted it, sorry they didn’t survive the posting.
But all you have to do is copy and paste the title into Google and smack that search button to find out more.
And such language, I hope you keep the basement door shut so your mother isn’t offended by your salty language.
“Private security guard” has antifa tats and a long social media history of being affiliated with Occupy and other antifa-aligned groups. Strains credibility that such an individual would pass a background check for an executive protection job and get put in the field with a gun amid a march by people he has a documented social media history of hating.
I’m glad to learn that a so-called antifa tattoo equals an antifa member.
Ergo, the police officer who shot Tamir Rice was wearing a confederate flag T-shirt under his uniform shirt so obviously, he’s a racist who support slavery of black folks.
So you are admitting that the shooting of Tamir Rice was justified and had nothing to do with racism. Thank you.
The soon-to-be prison inmate – soft-tush with nick name “DoughyLoff,” might not be antifa – but it’s definite he is a Bernie-bro. And a Bernie-bro is a stone throw away from a green or pink haired minimum wage uneducated Antifa clown.
The shootee was involved in a tense verbal confrontation with the guy in the “BLACK GUNS MATTER” shirt. I suspect that the BGM guy was advocating more for Black people to be settled than against regulation of Black rifles. Some guy worthy of extreme respect was intervening to moderate this verbal confrontation. Shootee withdraws off camera to the right. Shootee is shot almost immediately. I perceive that there was no time for shootee to do anything to anyone that would justify sudden escalation to deadly force.
IMHO, this was another assassination by ANTIFA / BLM radicals.
Before shootee withdrew screen right, he could be seen to have can of mace out and ready to deploy, I thought for a minute he was going to spray “Black Guns Matter” guy. He was there for a fight, just figured he was going to be the bully. Bad judgement, won’t happen again!
“an armed society is a polite society”
I don’t believe it’s true but maybe society is a little more polite today now that another LARPing fat dude has learned what happens when you try and bully people with your stupid bear mace. That seems to cross political lines.
“an armed society is a polite society”
“I don’t believe it’s true…”
The phrase is shorthand: “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
– – Robert A. Heinlein
In the book, Beyond This Horizon, it was not uncommon to open carry a weapon, and personal affronts were not easily excused away, often resulting in what we may think of as duels. The point being with a majority of sensible people ready to defend themselves and their sense of honor with a deadly weapon, one doesn’t lightly suppose that brash, reckless effrontry of others will be riskless…quite a different “society” from today’s privileged children.
In the photos and video I have seen the security guy tries to grab the can of mace which is low and at the victims side. The victim avoids the grab and bitch slaps the security guy. Security guy draws and fires with no justification. The victim raises and sprays his can of bear spray in defense as it is what he has in his hand. In the photos you can clearly see the gun is going back into battery while the spray is proliferating. The victim was spraying about the same time he was already dead.
“sensible people ready to defend themselves and their sense of honor with a deadly weapon”
Sam, I guess that’s where we differ.
I don’t think it is reasonable to ‘defend one’s sense of honor’ with a deadly weapon.
Anyone who employs a lethal weapon because their ‘sense of honor’ has been offended is a violent thug who needs to be incarcerated for a very long time while receiving psychotherapy for their personality disorders.
That sense of entitlement over some distorted concept of masculine honor is exactly why I don’t believe every American citizen should have the right to carry a gun.
Well – Then do nothing and keep your mouth shut when I’m shafting you from behind.
With guns, we are ‘citizens’; without them, we are ‘subjects’.
Matthew Doloff was booked on 1st Degree Murder.
Doloff was BLM, ANTIFA and Occupy Denver. Complete Marxists.
9 News should have vetted him even though he came from a private security firm.
The membership showed he was a supporter of the cause. That was all the vetting the station needed.
They knew who he was my guess.
He didn’t have a Denver Security Guard License. In addition you need an armed guard endorsement.
City of Denver said he has never been in the system. I doubt Pinkerton send him to 9 news without the license. Something else going on here.
A slap and bear spray doesn’t justify Lethal Force.
“…9 News should have vetted him…”
WHAT?
They don’t bother vetting any of the agitprop they spew, why on earth would they bother vetting a security hire. 🤣
They did vet him. He’s an antifa Bernie Bro with the tats and bumper stickers and face book posts to prove it. He fits right in with the culture and ideology at any lamestream media organization.
Thanks.
I had not heard that detail.
Last I heard the station was shifting all the blame to Pinkerton.
Trump/Pence 2020.
I heard the shooter tried to take the guys pepper spray and that resulted in the shooter getting slapped in the head.
Yes, exactly right.
This escalation of the situation (by the shooter) was around 2 seconds before the shooter increased his level of force (pulled his firearm) and shot the victim.
This is IN NO WAY a justifiable defensive shooting. The shooter had no legal authority to remove the pepper spray can from his victim. For clarity, the victim was holding the can at waist level, pointing it toward the ground, when the shooter attempted the grab and got his bitch slap. The action was a CLEAR escalation of the situation by the shooter.
He should never see the outside of a prison cell after his trial.
Trump/Pence 2020
it looks that way from the series of pics on 4chan linked above. that changes things very much from a legal standpoint.
👍
Just don’t tell CC or whiner, they’ll tell you not to believe your own eyes! 🙄
Trump/Pence 2020
The truth is that this shit should have been stopped before it took place, two opposing group’s shouldn’t be allowed to protest at the same location to start with, the instant this was noticed, the justice system should have put a end to it, and been allowed to do so by any means necessary, no matter what the governor, mayor of that state had to say, to many stupid people in high office’s, that needs to be removed, if you’re wanting to really slow down crime, the punishment must be stricter, not a slap on the ass, these protests are alright as long as they are peacefully done, and the first sign of violents, should revolk their rights to ever protest again, if they are caught back protesting are causing trouble, they are charged with a felony and sentenced to a minimum of 5 years in prison without perroll no exceptions, if murder occurred and founded guilty that it wasn’t self-defense or protection of your properties, and u, friends, family are in harm’s way, the murder will meet their maker within 24 hrs, no exceptions, stiffer penalties is what is necessary. AMEN
Hmmmm. Sounds like a king giving over reaching demands to some colonists. Wait, I think I known this story?
Years ago two opposing demonstrations would always be kept apart. Cops only started letting letting them into each others space or even pushing them together since 2015 or so.
“It has been the practice of 9NEWS for a number of months to hire private security to accompany staff at protests,” the station said.
Wait a second…. why would 9NEWS have been hiring private security to accompany staff to all these PEACEFUL protests?
How many news stations are hiring private security for their reporters while also telling everyone the protests are peaceful? Wouldn’t it be fun if someone made that kind of information public?
I wonder if the FCC can pull their License and put the entire company off the air?
They hired the armed security because they went to a right wing protest. The left decided to show up to do a counter protest via a food donation gathering.
It was a soup drive.
Then they allegedly threw canned soup at the cops.
Now I know why they organized a counter protest as a food drive.
He didn’t have a City of Denver License. He’s never even been in the system.
Big deal in Denver.
He’s got his whole life ahead of him (sitting in a jail cell), to contemplate the errors of his ways. Good thing he’s only in his 20s, because that list is loooooooooong.
Trump/Pence 2020
Is 9NEWS going to have a poll over a name change? Pravda or Izvestia?
Remember a while back there was an incident where an antifa guy grabbed an AR from a burning cop car somewhere and a security contractor there protecting reporters took it away from him?
Seems like it’s been going on since early in the unrest.
It’s a good shoot. All better now? All were looking for trouble, some found it, it’s all good, my tax dollars do not need to be involved in any way. When an innocent is harmed, let’s get re-involved.
So the main stream media is hiring security guards while at the same time wanting to ban guns…….Hypocrisy at it’s finest!
Law suit against the TV station for renting guns that they should of known this would happen. I see premeditation on the part of the MSM & a hate crime on top of it!
Going to one of these things doesn’t seem particularly prudent. Going armed and putting oneself in a position of high risk, where emotions are high is just plain foolish. Since I carry, if I were to go to something like this, I’d carry concealed and I would do NOTHING other than be on the sidelines not participating in the drama, only observing.
Sure it looks like murder but it also looks like they both did the monkey dance. Dumb.
So much for pepper spray
Pepper spray has it’s purpose.
Works great for spicing up bland mexican food. 😆
Serge left once the riots started. He hasn’t been back since. He is too busy protesting for communism.
PEOPLE SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE , SOME SEE WHAT THE MEDIS WANTS THEM TO SEE YOU SHOULD ALL STFU
We can now confirm security dude was antifa. How? chief sensor showed up to claim he isn’t and defend his actions.
I posted a video from Trump supporter Tim Pool. He explains to the older crowd. You don’t have to take my word, you can take his.
13m55s for those with short attention spans.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/private-security-guard-shoots-kills-protester-in-denver-after-being-pepper-sprayed/#comment-4641665
Tim Pool is hardly what I would call a Trump supporter. He’s stated for months he isn’t voting for Trump and only recently stated he might vote for him because the Dems have gone absolutely bananas and allowed the fringe of the party to seize the platform. He’s a centrist and reluctant Trump supporter at best, which makes his takes good for a middle of the road perspective.
FIX YOUR HEADLINE! He shot the guy first, casing is already ejected from the gun when spray is deployed. And he’s no security guard, doesn’t have a license in Colorado.
Everyone was wrong here , should have maced the one guy laughed and walked away..he kept saying mace me
Mace Mr BLM laugh and walk away
Wow the comment section here she has been infiltrated by commies. If any of you commies commenting here want a free helicopter ride, I’m available.
You know I always used to say that helicopter rides are expensive but bullets are cheap. But then 2020 happened, and bullets are probably more expensive than helicopter rides at this point.
As long as you aren’t promising Islamic plane rides; The take off is fine, but none of pilots learned how to land.
Thanks, but I’ve had plenty of ‘free’ chopper rides.
I can understand how that might be an exciting thing for an adolescent like yourself, but most of us old folks done been there and seen the elephant.
Shooter could have very easily walked away and de-escalated.
Bad DGU in my book.
Even if it’s a good DGU, he’s going to get to go to jail, lose his guns, and pay a lawyer.
I would bet the shooter didn’t even have carry insurance. Dumb as dog sh!t!
DON’T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!
Jolly pirate, I suggested no such thing.
in fact, my statement was:
“ … obviously, he’s a racist who support slavery of black folks.”
The police officer also was psychologically unfit for duty, and had been discharged from other police departments because of his erratic behavior.
The photo used in this article shows the shell casing being ejected. He was drawn on before pepper spraying. The victim said, “Put it away”, as in, put your gun away, as it was drawn from the holster. He was shot right as he raised up the can of pepper spray. This was a bad shoot and mr. Antifa is going away for a long time.
Cops are still saying they find no evidence of an Antifa link to this guy. So far that claim remains an invention of the internet.
He was not a licensed security guard in the city of Denver. Colorado leaves licensing requirements to lower levels of government. Presenting himself as a security guard could carry a fine of $999 and a year in jail. That’s besides being on trial for murder.
There are no doubt lawyers just salivating to sign up the dead guy’s relatives on this one. The TV station and the Pinkertons will be seen as having deep pockets and whatever the connection to the shooter, they will leverage that for every cent they can scrape up.
Alright – serious question time – why is it if you disagree with BLM/Antifa you are a Trump Support and conversly, why do you have to be a BLM/Antifa supporter if you dislike Trump….??????
There are more than 2 parties – and people can dislike both, right? So I am confused by rhetoric and name calling like it is some kind of math class 1+1=Trump/BLM/Antifa…
Seriously, are you all really this dumb, or just play one on the internet?
extreme polarization like we have today creates binary thinking.
in normal times maybe it isnt quite so bad, but when the people sense they are at an inflection point for society this happens.
AGAIN, Sequencing of “ACTIONS” under pics is screwed up. Verbal with Chem spray canister in plain sight, Slap, Draw gun, Chem sprayed , Fire gun.
The shitbird killer went “hands-on” first too.
Enjoy cuddling with your cellmate shitbird!
Since 2 guns were found it is reasonable to realize that the guy spraying the mace may have been reaching for his gun or threatening to go for his gun while using the pepper spray to render the guard defenseless.
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