https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD246Wk2DT0

Late at night this past Saturday, a large group of angry and violent teenagers descended upon a Kroger in Tennessee intent on inflicting a world of hurt on whoever they found. The group assaulted store employees, and even beat an elderly woman in the parking lot. According to Shannon Watts and the Moms Demand Action crowd (employees of Michael Bloomberg) Kroger is a perfectly safe environment where nothing bad ever happens, and the only people who bring guns to the store are psychopaths — they have even launched a multi-million dollar campaign to brainwash others into thinking the same thing. However, as this video and the multiple injuries and near fatal assaults definitely show, while Shannon Watts may feel safe at her local grocery store surrounded by her armed guards the average citizen might need a little protection.

The people who were assaulted in the video above were healthy teenage kids. In a fair fight one-on-one, they might have a chance to fend off their attacker and survive. But in this case, they were attacked by an angry and violent mob. They were overwhelmed, and it was only through sheer luck that they were not beaten to death. From the local CBS affiliate:

The disturbing video shows a high school kid lying still on the ground while others repeatedly kicked and stomped on his head. The teen attacked is an employee of Kroger.

“They followed hitting him with a pumpkin. He was already unconscious, so all you could see was blood and pumpkins,” said a witness who did not want to be identified. He is a friend of the victims.

The attackers didn’t care that their victim was already unconscious — they wanted to hurt him. They could very easily have killed him, even if that wasn’t their intention. That man is alive because of sheer luck.

The victims didn’t just include young and fit teens, though — one elderly lady was viciously attacked in the parking lot. While a young person might have been able to defend themselves, does anyone seriously believe that an elderly lady can fend off even a single attacker?

“It was maybe about 100 to 125 kids. It was a lot of kids,” said the witness.

“Is that an exaggeration?” asked WREG’s Elise Preston.

“No, it`s not an exaggeration,” replied the witness.

What was the reason behind this attack, though? Perhaps the people involved somehow instigated the situation, and what we saw was simply the justified result? According to someone who knows the people involved very well, it was a pre-meditated attack on people who had done them no harm, simply because they wanted to beat people.

“They were playing a game called ‘point them out, knock them out.’ Where they would point someone out and attempt to knock them out or fight them. There was no real reason behind it.

This is a prime example of a situation where a firearm would have made all the difference. Whether you are an elderly lady fighting off a single attacker or a scared teenager fighting off a wave of people intent on beating the ever loving snot out of you and possibly killing you, the simple appearance of a firearm could have stopped the entire situation dead in its tracks. There have been scores of situations where simply displaying a firearm has been enough incentive to deter an attacker, and this may have been another one of those situations. And if that didn’t work, the bullets would have. Unfortunately we will never know.

There were no reports of arrests made at the site of the attack. Police were apparently not present, and did not respond in time. The best that the local police department could promise is that they will “work tirelessly to identify, locate and [hold them] accountable.”

Police need help identifying the attackers. If you have any information, you are asked to call crime stoppers at 528-CASH.

Shannon Watts and Moms Demand Action want this to be the new normal. They want every American to be as disarmed and vulnerable as these Kroger shoppers were — open to attack by angry mobs and leaving their lives in the hands of police who are too far away to respond in time.

This is Shannon Watts’ vision for America.

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223 COMMENTS

  1. Do you know what would have happend if you had shot one of those punks? CNN, NBC and PBS would make you the next Zimmerman.

    • I was just thinking the same thing. The libtard media’s headline would be something like “Innocent children shot at a Kroger.” As the video shows, these thugs aren’t children and most definitely not innocent.

      • I would happily defended myself from one of “Obamas sons” or ANY 5 humans for that matter, if it meant that 5 of them were not stomping my head in on the concrete. That dude is out light a damn light on the ground, and all anyone can do is video tape it at first.

        • If you have the choice between self defense and being bludgeoned by a mob, which do you choose? I dont want, now or ever to take another human life, but when presented with the shitty situation this Kroger employee was, it comes a time to ask yourself what value you place on your life?

        • Just take a minute and think if this was a group of white boys stumping on a black boys head. Every news station in the country would be there covering the news. I haven’t seen yet. Is this because if the do they are racists. People need to stand up and make all equal. Cover both ways. People need to stop being scared to speak out. We are all Americans and we to stop this. These kids need to be convicted of a Hate Crime like they would be if they were white.

          • Don Imus got more criticism and backlash from the press for saying “nappy headed hoes” that a black mob will ever get for stomping a white person.

      • That’s why I keep a machete in the truck.

        Whether it’s a machete or baseball bat, if you take a gun out of the equation, it’s harder for the media to cry racism.

        Of course, all that said, I realize that in some states it’s so illegal to defend yourself with anything other than a gun that you’d be better of using the gun and automatically be labelled as a racist by half the country if the story breaks on prime time.

        • in new york a baseball bat behind the seat of your truck is considered a concealed weapon, unless you have a glove and ball with it.

          • Hey guys in NEW YORK , you can carry a nice long thin Phillips screw driver on your seat , it’s a tool but makes a great weapon t…

        • if you are in your truck, you are in a weapon far more powerful and deadly than a machete…just floor it. If you are not in your truck, the machete in your truck ain’t much help.

        • I’ve honestly been considering CCing a paintball gun with rubber balls just because of conversations like this. I think there are valid points to using less than lethal force in some situations these days.

        • “I’ve honestly been considering CCing a paintball gun with rubber balls just because of conversations like this. I think there are valid points to using less than lethal force in some situations these days.”

          When you pull a gun and bounce a super ball off of their head and they just laugh at you, whats your next move? I hope you are a really fast runner.

    • Ditto. If there were 100 to 125 kids, a defensive gun use situation could quite possibly have been framed as a mass shooting story by the mainstream media and the bottom feeders . Riots, Sharpton-types, federal investigations over sensationalized BS served to America on a billionaire’s platter.

      Lesson: Carry a few mags and maybe a backup gun.

    • I wondered the same thing. If you had a weapon and displayed it what would you do then, if they did not stop? Shoot a few of them? Shoot in the air to scare them? Because if you shot one or more of them you would likely end up in a legal hassle that would drain you. The way the press and public opinion is today you would now become the bad guy because you shot a “defenseless” kid.

      • Then why do you carry or even own a gun?

        Any of that can happen after any DGU. If you are not prepared to use your weapon to defend your life, a decision that should NOT be hampered by “oh no, what if” thoughts, you have no business carrying a deadly weapon.

        That’s my opinion, at least.

        • Because options are good.

          And your response makes it /obvious/ you have never had to pull a weapon on another human being.

        • Actually, Bear, you are wrong about that. Beware of making assumptions when you don’t have any facts.

          Point I was trying to make: if your life is in danger and you are focused on that, you should not, in my opinion, be hampering your decision tree with nonsense. Survival of the moment is the prime directive; the aftermath is later, and probably should have been worked out mentally before hand.

          I know from my own direct experience that when I have been in DGU situations (notice the plural), I was not thinking about Al Sharpton, lawyers or the news media. I was thinking about saving my life.

        • Show of hands…How many of you on here when seeing the teenage Kroger bag boy on the concrete having his head stomped by a bunch of fatherless hoodlums, would not stop the assault and avoid the area even though you are carrying and you have the right to use deadly force to prevent a felony assault? I know you guys are on here because I have seen comments in the past stating such. “It ain’t nunna my business”.

        • Michael, I have never been in that particular situation, but I can say that I have gotten involved in other situations where other people were standing around doing nothing or leaving. None involved shooting anyone.

          I’m not too impressed by the “none of my business” approach if someone is getting hurt.

          • I did not think you did. I just replied on your string because it seemed relevant to the discussion. It was aimed at the entire group. There is a large group of gun owners that say “don’t be a sheepdog”. I have never felt threatened in my life to the point that I could not run or fight my way out. I started carrying a gun after the Aurora Theater shooting and also based on the story of Suzanna Hupp. My thought after the theater shooting was I wish somebody in there had a gun. Then I felt that I had no right to wish for that if I was not willing to be that person. Yes I train for self defense but my first priority for carrying is to have a gun in the hands of a good guy who can shoot with lethal accuracy to prevent violent crime against anyone in my presence. If that is a hero complex then that is more of a sad statement for our society as a whole, because I just feel like it is the right thing to do.

        • “I did not think you did. I just replied on your string because it seemed relevant to the discussion. “

          That’s cool; I was not answering “defensively” or anything. Just offering “my take” to your question.

          It’s a good question.

      • If you carry a weapon and are not prepared to defend yourself with it when necessary: dont bother carrying the weapon at all.

        Dont take this the wrong way, but you need to check your mindset on defensive situations.

      • I would never “display” a gun under any circumstances, just as I would never warn someone that I was armed. Apologize, yes. Beg for mercy, yes. Claim mistaken identity, sure. First time someone attacking me hears anything about a gun will be a “bang”. I only say that because my ammo is subsonic. If he sees it come out and gets turned around quick enough I won’t deliberately shoot him in the back. Otherwise, if I pull the gun I will shoot him immediately, the time for discussion has passed.

        • That last one with the green shirt kicking the boy on the ground looked very young to me. I’m guessing 14 maybe. I might have ran up and cold cocked him up side his head then drawn my gun to dare retaliation. I don’t believe I would have had to shoot but you have to be ready to or else these mobs just get worse.

        • That kid on the ground looked dead or close to it. I would have shot the punk to try to save the victim. Of course, running up and coldcocking is kinda behind me now, anyway.

    • Not to mention if you carry a pocket 9 like most of us or even a full size with a spare mag you wont walk out of that store alive. They may run when the lead starts flying but if they go outside and regroup realizing you are out of ammo after very likely killing several of them, then you would be history. Your only chance would be if you were OC’ing an AR or AK at that moment.

      I agree with the sentiment, but a single CC’er with the typical hardware we carry would be history in a mob attack like this. That and yeah the media would have a field day with your jury selection if you got that far before being lynched.

      • I’m going to have to disagree with you, at least on principle. Sure, anything can happen, but chances are, if you start shooting back, they will flee.

        If they go outside to wait for you, they will just be waiting for the cops to get there just as well. You don’t even have to go outside. Hunker down and guard the door.

        I seriously doubt they are as organized and willful enough, to press a coordinated attack in the face of armed defense. These are opportunistic criminals, not an invading army.

        They are, in general, looking for weak victims they can easily exploit. As William Aprill describes “apex predators,” they are essentially lazy. Being at the apex, they have the option of choosing prey.

        But in the end, who knows? I don’t carry an AR or an AK with me every day. I carry a full size, double stack 9 15+1. I don’t usually even carry a spare mag. With a mob of 100, an AR with a 30 rnd mag won’t necessarily be enough. You have to draw the line somewhere, and there are many factors that enter into that very individual equation.

        At the end of the day, you roll your dice and take your chances. But, having a gun is a HUGE first step, and fighting back at ALL…making it harder to be a victim can make a huge difference.

        • I agree, and all I carry is one spare 6-rd mag for my LCP. But I bet I won’t have shot out the first mag before it stops being a fun “game” for the attacking animals.

      • Some of us aren’t like you and carry spare magazines and in many cases more than 1 piece because we realize that there can be more than 1 perpetrator of violence and mayhem.

    • Better to be the next Zimmerman , than dead, that is why i also carry a shotgun/rifle in my SUV and a pistol/knife on me . and support the police even if they shoot these punks….and wait to a real problem hits … 911 is coming soon ,,near you too….

    • So be it.

      Disparity of force, mob violence = legally articulatable use of lethal force to stop the threat(s) to me or attacked third parties like the elderly lady or kid clerk.

      The kid clerk on the ground unconscious getting stomped and the pumpkin thrown on his head. That is legal grave bodily harm. Shoot the threat into the ground to stop the threat to him.

      Knockout game = Glockout lethal response.

      Call 911; Call affirmative defense attorney on card in wallet; Articulate briefly the lethal threat to law enforcement you acted on; Miranda up and have your attorney, that you just called for on-scene help, to speak the rest for you.

    • Only if they catch you, and they don’t seem to be looking for anyone who committed crimes that night.

    • Haters are going to hate, no matter what. You can’t let the national media’s machinations and fabrications dissuade you from exercising your rights and defending your family.

      Their efforts would be exposed and defeated, as they they usually are, in a case like this; especially when there’s video. The AK-wielding, rooftop Korean shop owners’ image came out of the 1992 L.A. riots looking pretty good, after all.

    • I call BS.

      There’s a difference between chasing someone for no reason and shooting at a mob that’s attacking people.

      • Gotta love the one lower case letter named posters on here that always say stupid things. I’ll just introduce myself as “j” because my other hand is occupied and that is easier to type. I am also too lazy to learn the truth so I will just believe what the media tells me because that is their job to do the research for us.

        j, if you think George Zimmerman had no reason to follow Travon Martin then you are ignorant. Your words were “chase someone” implying that Zimmerman chased Martin. So not only are you ignorant…you are a liar.

    • I have a concealed handgun license in Texas. I have been at this Kroger Store and worked not far from there for years when I lived near Memphis. Normally I carry a 44 Special Revolver and a 38 Special Revolver but if I ever return to Memphis to visit I will be carrying two semi automatics with 15 round
      magazines. I might not could stop all of them but I would have thinned out enough to make a difference.
      I do not play knockout games or allow myself to be physically assaulted.

  2. Wow….just wow….. I’m sure after this every news station in the US will run stories showing how wrong Watts and her cartel are about the need to CC. They would never ignore a blatantly obvious story that goes against their agenda.

    /sarc:off

  4. Well if you had watched the Today Show piece on home invasions, you would all know that all you need is wasp spray. All the non-hypocritical anti-gun folks issue their security details a can each.

    Now did that helpful young man say aisle 8 or aisle 9?

  6. even the woman who was filming this disgusts me. laughing hysterically “they about to jack that white dude” like its some big joke, only realizing how wrong it was when they started booting him in the head. something is seriously wrong with people these days…

    • Good luck with that. When the “thugs” are through destroying their own neighborhoods, they’re going to start coming after your peaceful, gentrified white suburban paradise.

  8. Notice that this blog plays the same game the news outlets and foreign press play. In France these thugs are euphemistically called “youths” while describing basically the same thing….blacks attacking whites. Now you have described them as teenagers…why the reluctance to describe them as black teenage gangs?

  9. Ahhh, more social justice. Will Bloomberg, Watts, Sharpton, Holder, Obama, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, and the newspaper industry take a bow and credit for the enabling this righteous mob action?

  10. It’s less why you *need* a gun and why you *should* carry.

    And carry something more than a 5-shot revolver.

    It’s just a matter of time until a CCW gets attacked by a group of young black hooligans committing a wilding attack.

    I hope and pray his shots are true and that he has enough bubblegum to go around for the whole group.

    It’ll then be up to decent Americans to defend the individual from the race hustlers who will demand a pound of flesh.

    John

  12. Anti-rights Billionaire Bloomberg’s employees (Shannon Watts) would argue that if a shopper had a gun then there would likely have resulted in deaths rather than just injuries.

    But who’s death to them doesn’t matter and who’s injuries don’t matter either. They only look at statistics, the big picture – not those of individual rights. They are socialist/statists who focus on the good of the whole, and to them the good of the whole is no freedom, no rights, and complete safety.

    And i’m going to quote this again as I stated on the other statist post:
    I think we should stop 100% of all deaths by sealing everyone in small white rubber rooms were they are not allowed to suicide, and are only allowed to eat what they are given, do what they are told, and work inside their rooms producing a product under tight surveillance. This is the answer people.

    • I know this is ultimately your point, but to state it explicitly: your solution won’t stop death. Those people will eventually die.

      Death is cessation of life; we don’t really think of rocks and stuff as “dead.” So, the way to not have life stop, is to not start it.

      The only way to prevent death is to not be conceived.

      Therefore, all emotional bleating about ‘being safe’ is illogical if the goal is to ‘prevent death.’

    • so has anyone who has NOT been banned by MDA’s Facebook page try posting the video and news link over there yet?

      • I was banned a long time ago. I think I am banned on most of the major anti-gun sites. They just don’t want facts on their pages that contradict their opinions.

  13. Props to that security guard. He went out there, most likely unarmed, and managed to disperse the whole group by himself in seconds. No doubt by being forceful. About 1:02, it looks like he takes down one of the mob. That take serious nuts to go into a violent gang like that single-handedly.

    • Didn’t watch the video, so I’ll take your word for this assessment.

      This would then stand as yet another piece of evidence that fighting back is the surest response. It’s not just rapes; it’s not just spree killers. ANY situation…break the back of the attack and end it.

      Military dudes…what say you? Is crushing an ambush still considered sound tactical doctrine?

      The “pee on yourself” or “give them what they want” crowd are culpable for advising people to accept their own victimhood. It’s pretty disgusting.

      And yeah, hat is off to the guy for showing some stones and not worrying about things like Sharpton or how the media might portray him.

      • As a retired USAF aircraft mechanic, I volunteered to be a “rioter” for a security forces training exercise.

        What the response team (and now myself) looks for is the leader. In this particular situation, the first person who advances upon you. My intention is to shoot them (center mass hopefully), then look to the next closest attacker (repeat cycle). My guess is that they’ll probably have a sudden change of heart and turn into “unarmed children”.

        If they retreat, call 911 and tend to the wounded. If not, well, at least I go down swingin’…

    • You mean the security guard who was right there with the “they got a white dude!” girl, video-recording on his phone, and who made sure to hand off his phone to someone else before jumping into the fray?

      • In his defense, he could be recording the attack as evidence. His back was turned when the kid was attacked, he handed off the phone and waded in and dispersed the crowd. They could have easily killed the kid.
        It’s important to catch the people, and video evidence is going to be key in that.

  14. One of my old USPSA shooting brethren who went on to fame and fortune in garden spots of the world such as Somalia says that 180rnds is about right to carry in a chest rig at all times…because you just never know.

  15. I just upgraded my “Kroger gun” from an LC9s to an AR-15 with a chest rig of P-mags. Even though no one needs a MSR.

  16. A tactical question: You’re an older person, not particularly agile, pushing a loaded shopping cart across this same Kroger parking lot and you see that this crowd of (ok, predominately) black kids is approaching. You’re armed with a Ruger LCP w/ 8 rounds of .380. Somebody in the crowd points you out and the kids turn toward you. You’re now their target. There’s no time to get into your car and, obviously, you can’t run. What do you do? How do you defend yourself? How do you defend others?

    • Brandish your firearm. Pose a credible threat.

      It’s the same strategy as bears use — making yourself seem larger to scare away any attacker. You don’t have to start pulling the trigger in every situation to win.

      If that doesn’t work, then start shooting and take as many with you as you can.

      That’s my strategy, anyway.

      • Here, I disagree. Time is of the essence – you can’t let them get close enough. If I draw my weapon, I’m going to fire at least once…and it’s going to be center mass of the closest attacker.

        • You draw before they get close. That is what keeps thm at bay. If they continue towards you (unlikely but possible) then you should shoot. But why would you shoot when they are 45 yards away? Have you trained with a handgun at that distance? You better wait until they get closer to 15 yards. and make sure you empty your mag into them getting hits on as many different ones as you can. You don’t want to have ammo left when they get to you and overtake you. This is of course my approach to the original poster claiming to be an older not so spry person. Personally, I am going to shoot then move then shoot then run and shoot. I am in good shape though so you have to consider your options.

        • firing at them BEFORE they have committed a crime? That gets you a murder rap. Brandishing your weapon (with them at a distance) allows them to retreat and narrows the number of attackers. . . . doubt that most of them want to roll the dice and get hit

    • Theoretical answer: If you are in fear for your life, shoot the leader if you can identify him.

      Slightly more practically: If they are far enough away when you are ‘targeted,’ command them to stay back. If they do, you may be ok. If they are close or continue to encroach, disparity of force comes into to play.

      If you have the time to issue such a command and they ignore it, that is one sign “these guys mean me harm.”

      It’s all going to be VERY situationally dependent, of course. But, again…first rule: HAVE A GUN. At least afford yourself that option, should you need it. Don’t EVER say, “Well, I’m just going to the grocery store, I don’t need my gun.”

      The need for it can happen any time.

    • Well, one thing that comes to mind is moving between two parked cars and then using the shopping cart to block one entrance. If you’re at your own car, use an open door to block the other entrance. Neither provides a real obstacle but together with a visible weapon and loud warning might cause a loose mob to look for another target.

      But, then, maybe not. Nighttime parking lots are rapidly becoming no-man’s-land. My upscale HEB has a dedicated parking lot guard, but still . . .

    • With 8 rounds and likely no time to reload, I put my family behind me, draw and fire at the ground in front of them. With all that noise, they won’t hear a verbal command and I won’t have time to see if they heed. They will hear a gunshot in an enclosed space. The second shot goes into the closest male attacker, followed by as much of a retreat as I can manage.

      And when giving my report, that “warning shot” will be a miss. And yes, I know one shouldn’t shoot unless you’re in imminent danger, in which case you should shoot to kill. But with this many attackers and no time to shoot them all, a ground shot + my best Clint Eastwood snarl seems like a way to scare them away.

      Feel free to tear this strategy apart.

      • A shot at the ground could fly off and hit a good person, better to make a first shot a leg wound hit, and if no stopping a mob attack , start shooting with center of mass hits , one per person and at the same time try to back up or get in your car etc….DEAD MAN TELL NO TAILS………….

        • Tales either.

          You don’t shoot warning shots.

          If you weren’t justified shooting center mass, you weren’t justified to fire the gun.

          This is why you don’t carry a gun that only holds 2, 5, 6, 7 or 8 rounds – even if it’s a 1911. These thugs will swarm you when you go to reload.

          John

      • There can only be one reason to pull the trigger. You fear for your life, or the life of someone around you. Thats it. Warning shots are an invitation to a lawsuit, or worse. When it’s time to shoot, it’s time to stop the fight as soon as possible, and that means shoot to kill. Not necessarily to shoot until they are dead, but shoot to kill until the threat is dispatched. Warning shots, shooting to maim or other such nonsense is ill advised.

      • Of course my life is in danger. But when you have a mob running at you, you need to short circuit the hive mind. If a loud BANG from an LCP does the trick, or if the gun has a laser that also pounds some sense into the attackers, I prefer that to killing someone. I know full well that is not sound doctrine in any other SD scenario, but in a case where you don’t have enough rounds to shoot all your attackers, it’s an idea — at least as good as putting 95 grain bullets into eight people. First, how many of those will you actually stop? Second, if you kill someone, will that whip up the mob even more? I don’t know. Like I said, I hadn’t thought it fully through, but I know you don’t shoot unless there’s an imminent threat. (Which is also why I declare a “miss” to the PD, not a “warning shot”.)

    • No one is going to think ” he can only kill 8 of us, then we’ll finish him off”. The idea of the mob is to provide anonymity for each person so they aren’t responsible for their crimes. Each person is NOT there for the good of the mob and sure as heck isn’t going to risk their own life. If I were the old person in your scenario I would drop as many as I could before they all turned and ran. I’m guessing that would be 2 or 3. They are not Japanese soldiers, there’s zero chance they’ll fight through a hail of bullets even when it’s obvious the mob would win. Some of the individuals would not win, and that’s not what they signed up for.

    • Because I tend to shop late at night, this is something I think about a lot. I’m sure most of us have been in parking lots where there are obvious buzzards circulating looking for victims. It happens in the best of places. I use Robert’s approach of a loud waring to keep homeless people away from me, but a large crowd like this presents a particular kind of danger. It looks like these kids were basically a disorganized mob and such things are driven by a “contagion effect” which effects some but not all members. It’s quite possible that a unexpected fierceness, a loud warning, a visible weapon, even a shot, would cause a different contagion to motivate the mob to leave you alone. But, man, 50-100 wild kids out to do someone harm is a scary proposition. And it only takes 3 or 4 of that 100 to decide to take you on to pose a real threat. An old guy getting kicked in the head like the young kid probably wouldn’t be getting back up.

    • That’s why you don’t carry a pocket pistol as your primary weapon unless you absolutely have to. It’s lacks capacity and the intimidating flash and bang of larger gun. The “yoots” might not even notice the LCP in your hand but they certainly will notice a full size 1911 or G20/21. If it looks like the mob is going to visit my “whitopia” I will be carry my Nano as a back up.

      • “The “yoots” might not even notice the LCP in your hand but they certainly will notice a full size 1911 or G20/21. “

        In the dark, with movement, in a generally dynamic environment quickly potentially escalating to gunfire and you are asserting that they won’t notice an LCP but they will a 1911?

        Good grief.

        They’ll sure notice that LCP when the person holding it starts shooting it. And before that, they will more likely notice the totally of movement that equates to:

        (1) He’s not running or showing passive victim body language

        (2) He planted his feet (or similar)

        (3) He reached under his shirt in a movement that looked like he drew a weapon.

        (4) It looks like he has something he did not have in his hand he did not have before said drawing motion.

        No. They won’t notice all THESE things because (4) happens to be an LCP rather than a 1911. {/sarc}

      • JR:

        The parking lot is lighted, it’s not pitch black. If it were pitch black they wouldn’t see each other. The scenario is across the parking lot not in his face so there is a good chance that a small pistol would not be recognized. Unless they are nearly in your face they will probably think the LCP is a cellphone since they aren’t thinking gun or else they wouldn’t be there. Clearly surveillance is not in your area of expertise.

        • You can pathetically try to insult me if you like, but with that statement, are you asserting that those thugs are experts at surveillance?

          I think your assumption about them not noticing anything but $PET_FAVORITE_GUN_MODELS is ridiculous. I’m certainly not going to base my own personal survival tactics on such nonsense.

          Carry on as you wish, though. By all means.

      • you only need to shoot one or two of them for the message to get across. a pocket pistol is a very good option for folks living in hot weather areas, because it can be with you even in shorts and a t-shirt.

    • I’m not tactically trained. My first reaction (really not thinking it through, since I wouldn’t have that luxury in the moment), I think, would be to draw my firearm, and if they kept coming after that, to shoot center-mass at the closest one to me.

      The problem/risk is: one or more of them in a mob of 20-30 will likely be carrying, and I don’t know which one. So, I would hope that I would have the situational awareness to see the mob running from the CiCi’s to the Kroger, and find cover before I was targeted. That way, a disparity-of-force situation that justifies deadly force in self-defense doesn’t escalate into a gunfight.

    • Having that much situational awareness these days is very rare. If you have that level of awareness you are already several steps up on all the other shoppers and may not even be targeted. The mob would likely choose an easier, more distracted target.

      • Yep. First line of defense. Always, ALWAYS, look. I’ve reached a point where I now berate myself for not following my own advice. That’s an improvement over just blindly walking into a dark parking lot and only later, much later, thinking “what if . . .”. This takes a little work. Am I the only one who’s starting to think that everyday life is beginning to resemble a Tom Clancy novel?

        • Yeah, it’s become second nature. When ever I transition from one environment to another, getting out of my car I’ll do a quick 360; entering a store or business, a 360; exiting the store into the street, a 360; stopping to get gas another 360 and so on.

          This is automatic in the same way that I look both ways before crossing a street on foot or I look in front in the rear view mirror and both ways when crossing an intersection in my vehicle.

      • Which brings up …do you brandish, or even open fire to clear the attackers away from the victim who’s already on the ground? Or stand a few feet away and watch someone get stomped while you are safely behind your gun?

        As far as warning shots, I’m with the camp that wants to try to have something in between zero and bodies on the ground. If they know I’m armed and standing my ground, and still come at me, then my conscience is clear. But if I start shooting before the mob knows what’s up, then I’ll always wonder if the people I shot were just the poor sad sacks following someone else’s bad suggestion, while the instigators get away and then (probably) do it all over again another time.

        I know, “don’t have time” etc, but those are people over there, and I’d so much rather they learn a lesson and live to make better choices next time.

        • The point was made earlier; they’re a mob, not trained soldiers. Draw a weapon, say very loudly at the crowd stomping the young man on his head, “I HAVE A GUN, STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR I WILL SHOOT, DO IT, DO IT NOW!

          Once the mob sees you with a gun pointed at them, I would bet that they will scatter like a bunch of cockroaches when you turn on the light. And it they don’t just at seeing a gun, I guarantee they will after they see the first attacker go down with a bullet center mass.

          I would bet my life on it

        • “I’ll always wonder if the people I shot were just the poor sad sacks following someone else’s bad suggestion, “

          I’m sorry, but that’s their problem.

          Interestingly, just the other day, we had a longish discussion about personal responsibility. Add to that the notion of consequences exist for our decisions.

          Following someone else’s bad suggestion can get ’em killed, or arrested, if that bad suggestion is to attack innocent people for no reason whatsoever. I can live that.

        • Stepping in when you see someone else being attacked is the next part of the problem. I think the security guard in the video deserves a lot of credit for rushing in to protect the kit who was getting kicked in the head. Quite possibly, he saved his life. (In this I’m also reminded of the three people who stepped in to save Reginald Denny during the LA Riots.)

          When I was a school principal, I thought nothing about stepping in between squalling 15 year old’s but, admittedly, it was an acquired skill and not something I came to naturally. What I learned from that experience is that an authority figure stepping into an ambiguous situation can often exert enough control to defuse or at least deflect things. But there’s always a risk that the homies may still not back off or that they’ll turn on you too. It’s something you have to just be aware of.

          But if nobody else is there and the kid or someone else is getting their head kicked in and you’re the only person armed what then? I think most people (intrepid teachers notwithstanding) are naturally reluctant to step into such a situation. This is something thugs count on. I must admit that even though I’m not a particularly effective combatant, my inclination would be to step in. Yep. Take the risk. Let’s face it. If a minimum wage security guard will step in, shouldn’t we? But much of this depends on the situation. Maybe not with Boko Haram in a shopping mall.

    • Get between two parked cars, taking your basket with you. The cars provide a level of protection, and the cart makes it difficult for them to get at you, leaving only one avenue of attack, which you have covered with a handgun.

    • Mistake #1 – Juvie Court.

      Unless he is under 12, charge him as an adult. The mere threat of a real term and grown up possibilities will make him snitch on his buddies. . . .

  20. This happened at the grocery store I do all my shopping at last week. It happened literally minutes before I got there with my 4 year old daughter. The police were still in the parking lot when I got there, I had no idea this happened until I saw the news story.

    A man was arrested for stealing a city backhoe, driving it to the grocery store, then shoplifting from the store. When confronted by a store manager, he threatened to stab him in the neck.

    http://www.weatherforddemocrat.com/news/article_ce6bffae-32ea-11e4-bc76-001a4bcf887a.html

    • Take a picture of you with a pair of scissors over your Kroger card and tweet the shit out of it telling them you will find somewhere else to shop unless they stand up to the goons who would have you be an unarmed victim in their store. Only way this will get anywhere.

  21. It’s sad that the person taking the video laughs at the beginning “They got a white dude! ha ha! Hold on, look at them! ha ha…” (0:20) and then only after the assault does she understand the reality and severity of what has really happened (1:07). 🙁

  23. There were more victims than that. A 25 year old man was attacked in the parking lot. I am amazed by how many people go around unarmed.

  24. Nothing that a Glock 19 gen 4 couldn’t handle. These people make me sick, that’s right I said “these people”. I’ll bet every single one of them is an Obama supporter. There is not one excuse in the world that could justify this, not one. And to the victims, I hope they are all ok and home safe with their family’s. I hope Kroger does the right thing and support the victims how ever they can. Just remember folks, elections can, and do have consequences. May God have mercey on America.

  25. I work at a kroger in the ftworth area, and i can tell you that at my store, or any of the stores that ive been to, we have no store security. If there is an incident, the store managers are the only ones that are allowed to intervene, and i can tell you from experience that they are never there when you need them. If the rest of us walk outside to even write down a license plate number, we can be fired. Of course just being human beings most of my colleagues and i would do what we can to help, but as you can see, thats not much. Be prepared to defend yourself, because this store policy is universal between all retail giants.

    • Now that you mention it, I haven’t seen security in most Krogers. I run service calls to in store bank branches in Kroger around Memphis, so I spend a fair amount of time in them. Out of all the stores, I’ve seen two that had guards.

  26. Has anyone been to Shannon’s Faceplant account to see if they are claiming that that mob of teenagers was actually a bunch of old fat white guy gun nuts in disguise?

  28. Something similar happened to a friend a few years ago when he was surrounded by about ten clowns with bad intentions. He pulled his firearm and yelled “which one of you mutherfvckers wants to get shot first?” Nobody volunteered — they all ran like hell — and my friend was able to go on about his business unmolested. Which was good for the bad guys too, since my friend is more than capable of shooting all of them in a couple of seconds.

    Armed people are not defenseless and make poor targets for any kind of bashing.

    • Similar incident happened to me. Years ago, while living in Detroit (my first house out of law school) . . . I happened to be working from home one day. About 10 “kids” were walking down the middle of the street, throwing things at cars, cursing, and being a problem. I walked outside and asked them if there was a problem. One of them started walking towards me and cursing louder. I lifted up my shirt so J.E.D. (My Jesus Educational Device aka Mr. Stainless Steel S&W .357 w 3in barrel) was quite visible. . . and asked again, if there was a problem. Mr. Leader said no sir, and they turned around. I then added that I am sure there were other streets with more appropriate shortcuts from school for them to select. Never had a problem again on my block.

  29. I don’t even know where to start here. Would love to rub the “Moms” nose in this, game over! Kroger took the high ground and I wonder how those Everytown billboards will look now. Would love to have the one next to it with this “timely” incident plastered on to it.

    I always CC at Kroger (and everywhere else) and OC is legal here with permit. Truly the AK, as crazy as it seemed would have made immense sense here, with a combat loadout. I agree that after the first couple shots that the crowd would flee otherwise I’ll be hurtin’ with my Kahr and no spare mags. But they’ll just be able to beat me with it…

    I’m still frustrated that we can’t go toe-to-toe with Everytown and their minions.This battle should be so easy…

    • I’ve read a few articles from earlier this year about Memphis, where mob attacks similar to this one have been happening with some regularity…and almost zilch for media coverage. Tell us more about whats happening in Memphis?

      • Well, the local news is chock full of shootings and such almost on a daily basis. I only go into Memphis when I absolutely have to for work.

      • As a native and, thank God, former Memphian, the city has been this way for at least 50 years. The incident happened in what the newspapers ALWAYS referred to as “fashionable East Memphis.” This is NOT the ghetto or, to the untrained eye, even a marginally bad part of town. There are $2 million homes within 1 mile of the Kroger…$1 million within 1/8 mile. (Look up Galloway Dr.) I have shopped at this store many times. Locals know not to go to the there after dark. To paraphrase the philosopher Mac Davis, Happiness was Memphis, Tenn. in my rearview mirror. (After visiting relatives in Memphis, I sing that song 100 times.)

  32. What really irritates me about this smart phone selfie generation is they don’t understand that video journalism would be much better if they would hold the camera in landscape mode. What a bunch of idiots.

  36. Bigger issue aside from self defense. Wtf is wrong with blacks these days….I’m talking this generation? Do you see roaming bands of whites kicking up blacks and Mexicans. NO. I’d rather shoot a whole mess of em and explain myself with the video tape. Who cares if your the.next Zimmerman, looks like race riots and warfare will happen one day….and it will be on their (blacks) shoulders for acting so poorly.

  38. Will be interesting to see if Kroger changes its policy and replaces the unarmed rent-a-guard with armed off-duty LEO’s.

  39. As I send my son off to college on his own to an urban campus this video hits close to home. That kid could be my son. My son is fit, reasonably well trained in the martial arts, and has a CCW but is completely disarmed at college by design and could fall victim to an attack like this. I watch this and ask:
    1. Where are the parents? What have they done or said that makes these kids think it is OK to attack anyone for fun? If I was involved in something like this, my liberal, pacifist, and even hand father would have absolutely personally kicked my a$$. My sons know the same fate would await them. No doubt.
    2. Is it time to bring back corporal punishment for anyone, teenagers included, who are arrested in mob violence situations like this? A good switching on the backside for participating. It hurts like a bastard at the time and then every time you sit down for a week. No long lasting injuries or impact on your schooling, career, etc. Only the most serious bada$$es will think twice about getting another switching for sure.
    3. If Obama, Holder, et al, is truly interested in justice, he will send a squad of FBI to Memphis to investigate. Charge the main actors and instigators with attempted murder. Charge hate crimes if deserved.

    Common sense tells you that for every one ‘wilding whoop a$$’ event where there is a video and makes then news there are 10 that don’t. How long will it be before law abiding citizens form civilian defense groups that take up arms and start to patrol and defend their neighborhoods from thugs like this?

    • Sigh. It’s all over. Yesterday in the bookstore I sat (for a brief time) near four high school princesses who were excitedly talking to each other about a night of binge drinking, taking pills which “made them pass out” (much giggling about that), and throwing up in the bathroom. It was all I could do to keep from dropping into principal mode and calling their parents. Instead, I left.

  41. Anybody know if this has made it to the lame-steam, I mean mainstream, media yet?

    They sure are quick to provide wall-to-wall, non-stop coverage when a white person does or says anything negative to or about blacks. Geez, the OWG who owned the NBA team got enormous air time just for using language – he didn’t even shoot anybody!

    • that “self-reporting” BS was a joke. . . . he didn’t do it because he felt guilty. He did it because he saw how much $$ the Clippers were worth to an egomaniac billionaire. Hell, I would do the same thing. . . . I am sure his pride will be soothed from the public shaming by a lot of zeros on the payout. . . . if he was truly contrite, he would donate the $$ to the United Negro College Fund for a scholarship. But I guess I am just the cynic here.

      • NWA and AMG used racist and sexist language, and not only did no one force them to stop and apologize,they paid them millions of dollars for it.

  42. “a large group of angry and violent BLACK SAVAGE pieces of sh*t, empowered by Holder, Obama, Sharpton and Jackson.” FIFY.

  43. the only thing that will stop this madness is to see as many of the attackers laid out in a puddle of blood on the sidewalk or parking lot….the more that are eliminated the better…..this is not a ‘color’ thing it is attacking the innocent who MUST respond with a self defense remedy….and a semi automatic weapon will provide that response….imho

  44. In Memphis the game is called “point them out knock them out.” In Chattanooga its called “point them out and get your ass shot.”

    • it is called Polar Bear Hunting or the Knock Out Game in other places. Don’t worry – they are also going after Asians, Hispanics and light-skinned Blacks, too.

      • They are going after everybody. Everybody that looks weak that is. Thugs, cowards, thats all they are.

        • Ya had it happen to me but I stood my ground and fought back. They really are cowards who will run or go find an easier target when anyone stands up to them. I got a bump on the back of my head when someone came up from behind me but that was the extent of my injuries. Now I understand the old saying “Your back is up against a wall.” I have CCW now but I also have OC spray and an asp. I started carrying the OC and the ASP because of the mob attack. I understood then what I understand now. You start shooting into an unarmed mob regardless of how violent they are and you are looking for a long jail sentence. With the OC and an ASP I can defend myself pretty damn well.
          I have never experienced anything like that again, but every time I go into a mall or a shopping center and I hear a group of kids shouting and playing around I tend to tighten up. The mall security zeroed in on the leaders and took them down one dude they took down bloody hard. After that the mob broke and ran. I learned a couple of thing that day. Don’t run, if you do they will attack you. Look for the leaders and go after them. You take them out and you take out the mob. It was estimated that in just under twelve minutes they managed to do over a million dollars in damage. The thing I will always remember is their eyes, it was like they had turned into something mindless and less than human. It think it was the longest 12 minutes in my life.

  45. I just recently moved to TN/KY area from Europe (Military) and was weighing how much of a PITA it would be to ccw living on base (unable to carry until outside the gate etc.) with the restrictions and what not…PITA or not I’m taking the course now and getting my permit, I’m not going to let my family be a statistic.

    • Don’t check with the SP’s they will tell you what they want you to hear. The JAG can give you the answers you want. You have to remember that a military base is on federal land, and as such has its own laws that have nothing to do with local or state laws. Rules and Regulations can change from base to base and it is always good to check with the base before walking in with a loaded weapon. The installation commander can implement any rules or reg he/she sees fit, as long as they do not take away from the original intent of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Just remember, a written general order falls under Article 92 and is the same as if you were given a direct order by the Installation Commander.

    • I think in almost any state except for maybe Cal and NY you would be justified using a gun to defend yourself or someone else from emanate danger. Shooting into a crowd of people even a violent crowd is a good way to end up in jail.

        • Pepper spray, also known as OC spray (from “oleoresin capsicum”) Spray it in your eyes and it burns like a dickins, I can tell you first hand becasue I have been certified on it three times now. The big problem with it is if you have to grapple with the person you just sprayed becasue then it gets on you. It burns your skin as well, to me it feels like a bad sun burn, and has varrying degrees of severity depending on the person. Warm water and dawn dish soap is the best thing to take it off, Dawn Soap has a degreaser in it and it will help get the oil off your skin. The sooner you can get it off the less likely you are to burn. You might try baking soda to make it stop burning. The only thing I know that really works is time. An asp is a collapsable baton collapsed it is about 10 to 14 inches long, fully extended it is about a two and a half feet long. It is made of metal and very hard. The first blow is usually the most effective becasue it extends as it is deployed. I have never used my asp except to reach high places and to beat up the red man. I have used my OC spray more than anything, It is very useful on dogs that want to bite. Not so good on really drunk people and pot smokers becasue their eyes are already dried out and you need the tearing action to make it work.

        • That is pretty much what I said. Eminate danger is anything that is attacking you. I am not even sure that CA can fault you for that. But I am sure that they would find some other reason to cite you for having a gun. My warning about firing into a mob even an angry one still stands. Even the cops won’t do that.

  47. When I was a teenager a group like this started throwing rocks at a group of us at night from the other side of a parking lot, eventually striking a friend in the head. He took off after them and in 10 seconds you couldn’t find a black kid within a mile. Imagine if they heard a gun shot. Was that politically incorrect? 🙂

  48. I nearrly got f##ked up years ago selling insurance on the southside of Chicago. I stayed a bit too long and it was dusk. I found the street blocked by dozens of young black “children”. They yelled at me and tried to pullme out of my car but I gunned the engine and plowed through the little darlings. Kill or be killed. These kind of attacks should help open RIFLE carry too. NO I didn’t hit any of the youts either. And I don’t think I would get any props being married to a sista’…

  49. beautiful memphis, how i miss my home town. that being said, and knowing how the locals act, this mob would have easily been dispersed once shots were fired and one of them lay bleeding on the pavement. there wouldnt be the worry of a “zombie hoard” to contend with. less than 3 bullets would have stopped all 100 of them.

    • sounds about right. IMO, those posters saying that ya gotta carry a full-size double stack gun with extra mags are confusing a flash mob of troublemakers with an organized attack.

      • I have a glock 22 with a dual mag pouch. That is 46 rounds if I can’t keep a mob off with that then I am in trouble.

        • I usually carry a pocket gun, such as a Kahr P380, and I am confident that it will disperse a mob of youths. When 1 or 2 go down, the rest will scatter.

          It might not immediately stop an adrenalized and determined thug trying to flee apprehension from the cops, but I’m not going to apprehend anyone.

    • @Such a big, big, gun: You have left the same comment, word for word, in 8 posts in the last 20 minutes. I have deleted all of them except for this one, the final one, in order to leave this reply. Repeated cross posting of the same comment will be treated as spam, and if you do it again, you will be banned as a spammer. This is the only warning you will get from me.

      • Thanks. What is worse it really didn’t have anyting to do with the topic. I know we can go sideways on a topic but this guy came out of the shoot sideways.

  51. Geezus. THIS is why I carry every damned day (both pistol and pepper spray): because there are people out there who have both the means and inclination to inflict INSANE cruelty and harm. If I am ever confronted by such people, I’d rather have more than just a calm voice of reason in my back pocket.

  52. It’s a no win situation. Get beaten and die, or defend yourself and have the media crucify you.

    Just another day in the land of the free.

  53. In Omaha, Nebraska, where I live, the dominant supermarket chain is Baker’s. It used to be a family business (hence the name) but was bought out by Kroger several years ago. The only negative change I have noticed is that, instead of the bag boys automatically taking your grocery cart to your car, they ask if you want that service. I have checked each of the stores I patronize for “No Guns” signs, which have the force of law in Nebraska, and have never found any. I am delighted that Kroger has told Shannon Watts, et al to pound sand.

    Several years ago, one of the Baker stores was plagued with a series of parking lot muggings. In response, the bag boys kept a careful watch over the customers. On one occasion, when I trailed about 10 feet behind my wife, the bag boy explicitly asked her if she knew me and didn’t leave until he was satisfied with her answer. Another of their stores, which we patronize most often, was held up late one evening. Of course, it can happen anywhere and staying out of the “bad” part of town won’t help because the bad guys drive.

  54. The right way to deal with this situation is never to be in this situation.
    How many times have people written about ‘situational awareness’ on this website?
    If you don’t understand the demographic danger zones of the area you’re in, then you aren’t paying attention.

    Situational awareness means that before you decide to become a reporter in Syria, or Iraq you understand going in that you might get your head cut off by the locals.
    So, unless you accept that upfront – Don’t go there.

    Situational awareness also means that you need to be aware that Section 8 vouchers
    have spread the ‘vibrancy’ of the inner city to lots of formery safe neighborhoods.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/306872/?single_page=true

    Situational awareness should also tell you that there is nothing at a Krogers, or a Walmart
    that is risking your life for. – Nothing!

    If you don’t live in a ‘safe’ area then you’ll have to move –
    and not next year.
    All it takes is one good punch to the head and you can be permanently brain damaged.
    https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=knockout+game&tbm=nws

    If you think you can fix these problems – Good luck to you.
    Philly, Camden, Birmingham, Trenton, Jacksonville, Detroit, St Louis, etc are waiting for your solutions.
    America has spent somewhere between 7 and 20 trillion dollars trying to fix
    inner city black youth dysfunction, to no avail.

    The are plenty of safe, friendly rural areas in America.
    Most of these are very gun friendly.
    Life is too short to have to risk your life to buy groceries.

  55. I subscribe to change.org I have segned several petetions as a veteran regarding the VA clusterbomb. However Ms. Watts just dropped this and it hit my inbox:
    /QUOTE(whitespace removed)
    Kroger: It’s time to adopt gun sense policies in your stores
    Shannon Watts
    Zionsville, Indiana
    Sign Shannon’s Petition
    A grocery store is one of the last places I should expect to see someone openly carrying a loaded weapon. It’s where I shop regularly with my kids.
    But Kroger, the largest grocery chain in the country, has policies that allow customers to openly carry guns in its stores — despite the risk it poses to customers and employees alike.
    Numerous shootings and gun rallies have taken place at Kroger brand stores in recent years. The company policies that have enabled this to happen are not in line with its core values, which include creating a “safe and secure workplace and shopping environment.”
    Most states have weak gun laws that let people openly carry guns even if they haven’t had a background check or training. Private businesses like Kroger have the responsibility to protect their customers when the law won’t.
    How can we possibly know if an armed person at a Kroger store is a responsible gun owner, or a serious threat to our children? This isn’t something we should have to worry about when we’re out grocery shopping. Moms will support businesses that protect the safety of our children.
    Target, Chipotle, Starbucks, and other businesses have already responded to petitions from moms and supporters urging them to adopt common-sense gun policies in their stores. Now, we are calling on Kroger to do the same and protect families who shop in its stores.
    /END QUOTE
    I have a simpler answer. If there is an irresponsible gun owner in the store-flagging people at the low ready etc.. call the Police. And if there is someone committing a forcible felony in the presence of all these defenseless kids and moms-then know that a responsible gun owner, if they so choose, has got their back as well as their own-like it or not.

    • So according to MDA, they don’t know if an OCer is safe, but they’re not worried if a CCer is safe?

      I view Shannon Watts like Lucy ready to pull the football out from under Charlie Brown.

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