Over at modernserviceweapons.com the delectably named Hilton Yam offers a beginner’s guide to 1911 malfunctions. You got your vertical stovepipe (above), horizontal stovepipe, feedway stoppage, high angle failure, double feed/failure to extract, and failure to extract in conjunction with magazine failure. While I love me some 1911, I’m loathe to carry one, both for its ammo capacity limitations and the potential – make that certainty – that it will fail. C’mon admit it. It’s not a question of “if.” It’s a question of “when.” The odds that a 1911 will fail when you need it most, especially if you keep it well maintained, are lower than a snake’s belly. So . . . is it worth it? [h/t Pascal]
Well that’s it for anyone else. Start saving if you want one.
Awesome gun with rich history and a wonderful legacy. It is too big for me to carry comfortably, and combined with the potential failure issues, this is a no-go.
It’s also a pain to clean.
It’s a great gun for a 100+ year old design. But it IS a 100+ year old design.
It’s not that much of a pain to clean, it just has a few more steps than a Glock.
Wipe down the feed ramp, clean the barrel, wipe off and then grease the rails, wipe off the breechface, put a dab of grease on the locking lugs and you’re good to go.
So you’re saying that it will fail AND that the odds of it failing are extremely low?
Not sure where you’re going with this.
It will fail. The question is when. The odds of failing when you need it are low. Text amended.
Unfortunetly the only two certainties in life are death and taxes. Every gun will fail as it gets older, so with all guns, it’s a question of when.
I personally see the 1911 series as a luxury, not a tool. Something you buy to show off or to have “just because” or to collect.
Yes, it will fail eventually, but won’t any gun? If I had to pick one gun to last me the rest of my life, it would be my 1911.
Now, I like to think I’m not biased, because I’ve owned 3 1911s (2 currently), a Glock, a Beretta, and a dozen or so single and double action revolvers, and I love them all, and my most used handgun is a HK USP45 compact.
The 1911 is thoroughly NOT a beginners handgun, or really a handgun for anyone who doesn’t cherish their firearms. It does take some TLC to keep it going, but it will return the love x 2.
Plus, I like the option of just straight up knocking the piss outta someone with my pretty little heavy steel pig. Try that with a polymer frame.
Mine has never failed me in any way. It rattles and its pretty ugly, but it works. Period. I’ve never had a reason to doubt it. I would like to get a GLOCK-brand GLOCK at some point though, interpret that however you’d like…
That’s what I’ve always heard. The older ones that rattled like a loose bumper never failed, but when they became an icon and higher end versions with tighter tolerances were introduced, that’s when reliability issues came about.
For what it’s worth, I would like a 1911, probably a Para or a SR1911, but I don’t know if it would ever be a regular carry. My fil used to carry a Springfield 1911 when he was a range master, he swore by it.
I have an old Argentine 1911. It rattles, and it eaten everything I’ve ever fed it, though it didn’t like a batch of particularly light target loads and didn’t extract them all, but that was my fault. At gun fighting distances, it is plenty accurate, even with the crappy WWII style sights. I can doubletap or quickly dump a magazine into a nice tight group better than any other pistol. You don’t need target sights, match barrels and extra tight bushings for a carry gun. So yes, it’s worth it.
Just goes to show that a 1911 that is as reliable as a Glock (if there is one) is going to only be as accurate or less so.
After my wife’s grandfather passed away we were clearing out his house. We found his M1911 he kept from WW1. I stupidly did a quick cleaning job on it and ran about 100 rounds through it with no problems. The slide shakes worse than my mossbergs pump, the hammer has a taste for blood, and it likes to kick the shells right back at your face, but it ran beautifully for a near 100 year old gun. Afterwards I took it to my smith to get properly cleaned up and he swore a blue streak that I just fired walmart ammo through a museum piece
My Sig Sauer scorpion.. I wish I had 2 glocks instead 🙁 failure to feed once a magazine.
The Scorpion suffers from excess tolerance tightness. I had one. DO NOT RUN THIS PISTOL WITH A BUFFER. The slide will not reciprocate fully after each shot if you do and short stroke or fail to return to battery due to momentum lack. Also, as a result of the cerakote, it seems as though it is more prone to cleanliness related malfunction. I sent mine back because it wouldn’t lock back after the final round and they replaced the slide stop.
I sold it as I was poor and needed to make cash but it was a nightmare.
A person who only relies on one review is clearly asking for trouble. We are supposed to be smart customers. A bad review is a good thing as long as it is fair.
Works fine for me. And I can buy standard magazines in MD.
I own an R1 with some amateur gunsmithery (beavertail, hammer, various other pieces….). The scuttlebutt on the intertubez is that the R1 is especially prone to failure, so I must be the exception. 2500+ rounds and not a single malfunction.
I carry a 5″ Les Baer on my hip, 2 extra magazines on my belt and a S&W J frame in my pocket with confidence that they will work and that I can place the round(s) where they need to go.
I feel more confident with this combination than anything else I have tried, and I have tried alot of others.
More BS from the guy who bought an untested Caracal and fell into a swoon over the R51
To repeat, the 1911 is the most combat tested pistol the world has ever seen. The families of innumerable Krauts, Itaiys, Japs and assorted flavors of commies will testify to the efficacy of the 1911. If it lacked reliability it would have been replaced long before 1985. The full size 1911 is a combat pistol. If you buy one in the $750-$1000 range they will be very reliable. It is the high cost precision competitive target shooting models like the $3000 Wilson Combat that have reliability issues. Precision is the enemy of reliability because the tight tolerances get jammed up with goop.
You want to see stovepipes? Limp wrist the Tupperware wunderwaffen Glock.
Especially as the magazine empties and the gun has lost mass.
Yep. Need to be a “lock the wrist up tight” guy with Glocks, especially the little ones.
Thanks for the 10% spring change test. Simple.
Tdiivnva,
So much fail, so little time.
See Rabbi’s comments below. Military 1911 are loose and feed ball ammo. Todays 1911s are nothing like military issue. They are much tighter to increase accuracy and in doing so, reliability suffers.
You are obviously much more educated and experienced than all of the other writers here. I look forward to reading YOUR blog.
No, today’s 1911’s are built tightly to appease people who think a tight gun is the same thing as an accurate gun. The only problem is, that’s not true. For a 1911 to shoot accurately, you need a correctly made barrel that locks up correctly to the slide. None of the other pieces contribute to the inherent accuracy. If the barrel locks up to the slide in the same place every time, and the sights (being mounted on the slide) are adjusted correctly, your 1911 will be accurate, even if the rest of the gun sounds like a freaking maraca.
When I first noticed the maraca (I’m stealing that, by the way) I thought it was a problem. But the thing continued (and continues) to punch jagged holes. And with me behind it that’s saying something.
All firearms can fail. Glocks fail after the magazine springs wear out for example.
I owned a Colt 1911 model 70 in the 80’s I could never make it work reliably, not even after a lot of tuning by my local gunsmith. I got rid of it.
Fast forward to this century. Dan Wesson 1911s have been absolutely bulletproof. Everything works perfectly, every single time. Run them WET, run them CLEAN, as if your life depended on it.
If you’re the type that is not embarrassed by a dirty car full of crap and dirt all over the inside, and you only put gas in it and nothing else, then a 1911 is not for you because you’ll keep it the same way. You now who you are….
If your life depends on your weapon you’d better damn well hope it’s clean and properly lubricated regardless of what make or model it is.
You actually trust your life to that gun? See S&W, Glock,, Sig, HK Ruger…..
Ruger pistols? Ewwwwwwwww!
They look awesome, they have great history, and although I haven’t shot one, I believe the people who say they’re great to shoot. And no, they’re not worth it. Not on my minuscule gun budget.
When I win the lottery or get that $15k/yr raise (similar odds), then I’d love to have a well-crafted 1911 (and I’d still EDC a polymer 9mm). Until that time comes, for all my purposes I’ll stick with economical, ergonomical polymer 9mms with an unbeatable record of durability and reliability. I can’t afford for them to be anything else.
The design of the gun you’re testing has a fatal flaw, and you’re holding it wrong. Even if it didn’t have a fatal flaw you’ll die in a gun fight because you didn’t go to SEAL camp. It’s the shooter not the gun, unless it’s the gun. With that gun it isn’t even true that “an armed society is a polite society” unless you consider gun guys laughing at your gun choice polite. Again.
I own two 1911’s a 5 inch Kimber Warrior and a 3 inch Kimber Ultra II. I have never had an issue wih either pistol. I carry both regulary and have full confidence in both pistols and my abilities.
When it comes to failures; ALL weapons will fail at some point. Everyone’s training should include immediate and corrective action.
Combat tested and countless thousands of soldiers have trusted their lives to the 1911. Before the Interwebz there was never this fear of a 1911 failing regularly. All guns can fail. I trust a 1911 with my life on a regular basis and have NO reason to doubt that it will ever let me down. It never did in the service and it hasn’t since.
True, but those guns were purposely built loose and sloppy to increase reliability.
Additionally, the military runs FMJ which feeds much smoother than today’s hollow points.
With the current rush towards accuracy, reliability in 1911s have suffered. I no longer take one out of the box to see HOW it works, my first test is to see IF it works.
David Kenik
http://www.armedresponsetraining.com
Not my experience at all except for the crap that Colt was putting out in the 70s and 80s. Dan Wessons are 100%. So are Springfields and most others.
The way I see it is this: Go to any specific firearm forum and you will find post after post of problems, for ALL of them, not just 1911s. Most shooters these days don’t have the first clue about how to break in, maintain or shoot a handgun. Handguns are not cell phones!!
And about the 500 round days, the most successful guns in limited and open competition are the 2011s. They get shot A LOT, they are very tight, and very customized. The “loose as a goose” so it works is just another forum/keyboard myth.
JAS,
There is a big difference between slamming parts together by hand, and true, hand-fit 1911s.
Hand-fit 1911s that are smith by true professionals cost upward of $3000. Dan Wesson does not qualify.
I have an STI Trojan 9mm, it’s my “class gun”, 2000+ rounds so far and the only failure I’ve had was a double feed when my shirt caught the slide during a ‘draw from concealment’ drill.
I’ve owned, carried and shot many 1911s since 1958. Most, particularly the G.I. issue, were totally reliable. Only one, a 1989 Colt stainless Gold Cup, was a total POS. The most accurate was a High Standard G.I. model I bought through Lipsey’s several years ago.
I carried a Colt Gold Cup National Match for a long time, now carry a Glock. Technically speaking, from an engineering perspective, mechanical things have a MTBF – Mean Time Between Failure. This is a complex calculation. Simplistically, I shoot my guns, inspect them and clean them as required so I ensure they work when I need them. Is the gun maintained, is it modified, is it beat to ish? All of these have an impact on the MTBF. I love my 1911, it is more of a capacity issue and bulkiness for me than confidence in whether the gun will fail or not. I don’t keep guns that are not reliable.
S&W got the 1911 right. I’m sure someone somewhere had some trouble though. My 1911DK never ever failed to fire or extract, shooting factory loads, self made SWC loads etc. It was a bet your life on gun. Unlike Kimber, Smith got the extractor right. I don’t own it any more as it was too heavy to CC. I wasn’t too skippy about carrying the hammer back on a live round even though it was safe. As a comparison, I shot competition with the Glock guys & they had jams galore, although that could have been due to sloppy reloads. My wish list gun is the S&W Scandium Bobtail(4 1/4″ barrel). I feel the Smith 1911 is well worth the considerable expense./// Poster formerly known as R…., Prince eat your heart out.
Holy Moses, did you just post something without signing it Randy?
I agree, Randy, with the S&W assessment. The only 1911’s I’ve kept are a pair of Smiths. One is an early (but not too early) stainless steel base model. The other is a higher-end melonite-treated version with the larger extractor. Both just run. Neither has needed any tinkering. Neither shows any ill-omen wear marks. If either was smaller and lighter I’d carry them, and I shoot them more accurately than my carry gun. Such is life. I sometimes carry one in the winter just ’cause.
Excellent article!!!
The M&P9 has a mean rounds between stoppages average of 20,778. I have yet to see another gun equal this rate. A 1911 would need several tune ups just to make it to 20,000 rds fired. 1911’s are kind of last century. They certainly have a proven combat record. So does the mosin nagant, I don’t see people arguing that they would rather have a mosin than a modern bolt gun because of combat pedigree. I like my 1911’s as what they are, relics of the past and fun range toys.
I prefer my Finnish Mosin over most bolt guns I’ve messed with. Now is that a damn fine gun.
Every gun has the potential to fail.
Would I be willing to trust my life to a 1911? Yes, after I had shot that specific one for a period of time to know it is defect free.
But I apply that same standard to Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, and so on.
I own exactly one 1911, a Kimber. That specific Kimber has never given me an issue of any kind in years of ownership. In terms of reliability, I would trust my life to it because I have seen it operate. The real reasons I don’t carry it daily:
1. Manual safety. I want my carry gun to have the minimal amount of fine motor skills to operate it in a defensive shooting
2. Cost to replace. If I did have to use a firearm to protect myself, the odds are real good that I would lose that firearm for at least a little while, and potentially a lot longer. Look at the way police have treated firearms confiscated (either for a criminal investigation like GZ’s trial, or like in the post-Katrina New Oreleans). They generally don’t come out of their time with the police looking like they went in. I’d rather lose something in the $4-600 range than something in the $1k world. And I can find reliable options in that price range.
I hate to break this news to you but to paraphrase Fight Club a bit, on a long enough time line ALL guns will fail so all guns have that question of “when.” The 1911 might have a higher rate of failure or a smaller number of rounds between failures but it’s a bit disingenuous to say it is failure prone and making it out like other guns are completely and entirely foolproof.
If your gun has not failed you, you haven’t shot it enough.
I have a 1943 Remington Rand that I would trust implicitly.
Well if he wasn’t using a Kimber he wouldn’t be having those problems haha
I love my Kimber and she gas not failed me once. Only problem is sometime I get brass straight back and one has even bonked me on my safety glasses.
My Springfield Range Officer is as reliable as my Sig. If we could just win a carry lawsuit or get Gore out of office, I would happily carry it.
Remington R51 fallout is, or will become, a classic example of what happens when internet hype meets reality, at least in the gun world. The initial announcement and pics made this gun seem small. Turns out, it’s about the size of a Glock 19. People were excited about the Pedersen action because it’ll tame the almighty fury of a 9mm. Reality: it’s responsible for the re-assembly issues, and it is a gimmick. Bottom line: technologies die all of the time. Some are best left on the scrap heap of history.
Have owned 2 Colt 1911’s. A used Series 70 was my first handgun. The only failure in about a 1000 rounds was one failure to go completely into battery during an IPSC match my cousin shot with it. The other is my 1991A1 Officer’s Model. My EDC when I was City Prosecutor for 61/2 years. It has yet to fail, and accurate enough to break clay pigeons set up at 100 yards. (not every time, gotta allow for drop and all that). But in any case, I would and have trusted my life to both all day, every day. Both were stock. The 70 had Pachmires on it. I used Silvertip hollowpoints in the 70. Still use Hydra-Shoks in the Officer. Maybe it’s just when people start “improving” them is when they start becoming unreliable.
I own three, my father’s service piece that went through WWII and Korea, a Sig Scorpion on 5in and a rock island armory in 3.5 in. for concealed carry.
My dad’s is all original and is what I learned to shoot with, never a stoppage.
Not one of them has had a failure to feed or a stove pipe. The scorpion had issue with the magazines it came with and I replaced them with Ed Brown. It is an absolute tack driver.
The rock island has never had any issues even with hollow points. and for $450 you cannot beat it.
Not as clumsy or random as a Glock,
It is an elegant weapon for a more civilized time.
The question of the article was “is it worth it?” and my answer to that would be a very emphatic no. Sig’s 1911’s are notoriously bad, so really your cheapest 1911 that I would consider carry-able would be a kimber. You’re looking at about 1000 bucks, if not 12 or 15 hundred bucks. I understand that glocktards are a pain in the ass, but no product that is inferior in production (save your ass reliability as a carry weapons) to another that is half or 1/3 the price is ‘worth it’.
If the question is “are 1911’s good enough” the answer for almost all of us is yes. In the same way that most bargain pistols and rifles are more than good enough for 99% of us. Soldiers, police officers, tactical trainers, instructors, etc, do require a next-level weapon, something that will perform when abused, neglected, dragged through the sand used as a hammer. OFWG’s like the majority of CCW holders aren’t going to be dragging their pistol through anything worse than spicy mustard and will probably never fire their weapon in fear or anger.
Personally? I don’t understand 7+1 with a RELATIVELY low reliability for 1000-2000 dollars @ 2.5 pounds when 13+1 with RELATIVELY extreme reliability for 500 dollars @ less than 2 pounds is on the shelf next to it.
I got news for you, Kimbers are terrible. Their quality control is about as bad as SIG’s, if not worse.
Modern Colt and Springfield are the only ones I trust at this point.
We would never allow our relationship with any gun manufacturer – whether positive or negative – to influence our findings or opinions to compromise your safety or waste your hard-earned money.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I recall several people pointing out quite the opposite on several of Nicks glowing a$$ kissing reviews of FN products. Or how he constantly compares or says this or that isn’t as good as the SCAR etc….
I’m not disputing what you say, but what did you (or they) find to be incorrect that Nick said? And if it was strictly an opinion of his that they didn’t like, not a factual statement, how is that (“Nick gave this FN a glowing review because he likes FN”) different than what people are complaining about with regard to the R51 (“Nick gave it a bad review because he doesn’t like Remington”)?
As far as “this isn’t as good as the SCAR,” there are other things that he has mentioned that other guns do better than the SCAR. It’s called finding a point of comparison. Guns aren’t reviewed in a vacuum, they are always going to be compared to similarly situated firearms. Comparisons are inevitable. Is he giving too much credit to the SCAR, or is the SCAR just that good? Reverse that for the R51.
I understand how some folks might give a good or bad review because of a relationship with the parent company. But I think most people who approach something professionally (as I think Nick and everyone else here tries to) will be able to put that relationship aside. For my part, I’m completely certain that regardless of how I feel about Remington (I don’t particularly have an opinion, but go with me), once the gun is in my hands, the rest is irrelevant. I don’t care how it got into my hands, or really, even whose name is down the side of the slide. I care about “figuring it out,” with all its unique features, tricks, and foibles.
And that last part is where it’s nice that folks here are not beholden to the companies that are sending them the gear. FN wasn’t going to take Nick’s SCAR away if the review was less than glowing. They weren’t going to cut him from the shooting team. Likewise, if Remington hates this review and puts TTAG on another year-long (or longer) “no samples” list, so be it. TTAG is not reliant on those companies for products, or materials, or gaudy full-page full-color advertisements. We are under no obligation to cover up any problems, or even to shade any ambiguities in favor of the company providing the product. If Remington (or anyone else) won’t provide T&E samples, we’ll buy ’em, or borrow ’em, or find some other way to get our hands on one. And once it’s in our hands, how it got there doesn’t matter.
And, I would argue (not as a lawyer but as one who has testified as an expert witness in criminal court a lot), all of these same points apply to the use of handloads as defensive loads.
I know some highly prominent people (or at least one) advocate against that practice. But, the argument does not make sense to me.
I’m not telling people to carry handloads; like everything else in the SD and right-to-carry decisions, that is a very personal choice. I am saying that the arguments against doing it make absolutely no sense to me.
And yes, I’ll back that up with testimony if/when the time comes. My credentials on this topic will speak volumes over the “should never do it” utterances of folks that plan to put live and death decisions into the hands of “what MIGHT happen” at trial time.
All that said, right now my mags are full of Speer Gold Dot Sd ammo, but I have carried handloads habitually in the past.
In My Opinion – the argument against hand-loads is just silly. To carry hand-loaded ammunition that in your opinion makes your weapon more effective is no different than carrying a .45 instead of a .32.
The whole point of a defensive weapon is to maximize the possibility that it will be an effective tool when and if you need it. If you hand-load Zombie killer ammo or carry the R.I.P. “buzz saws”, the object is still the same and the purpose of the ammunition is to stop the attack in the most efficient and reliable manner.
Any argument that you were intentionally creating or carrying ammunition that is intentionally more damaging or lethal is ridiculous, OF COURSE you would want that.
I own the 1911 that was my grandfather’s in ww1 and my my Dad Carried from D day on Omaha beach to VE Day in Pilson CZ,
God knows how many thousands of rounds of ball they put through it and I have put through 10,000+ more over the last 50 years since it was passed to me and the only failures to fire with ball ammo (almost all of which I have had as surplus stock) have been a small handful of primers that did not go bang. I never saw a smokestack or a fial to feed till I tried to shoot some modern hollow point ammo… I once had a box of 50s or 60s vintage “state police metal piercing” ammo given to me that was a FMJ truncated cone shaped slug of about 200 grains as best I can recall and it too was fine….
The gun was designed to fire ball ammo and critiquing it for problems with hollow points seems a bit unfair.
I find it hilarious that the gun control lobby foams at the mouth about training requirements. But if a guy has training, the prosecutor and the liberal media will paint the shooter as a wanna-be SWAT member or a racist fear-monger just itching to shoot someone.
It is sad that this is a question that must be asked…or maybe someone just finished watching Con Air and started to worry too much.
+1
Its funny how “common sense” gun control arguments fall apart when actual common sense is applied.
if a guy has training, the prosecutor and the liberal media will paint the shooter as a wanna-be SWAT member
They painted George Zimmerman as a wannabe cop, and he was a Pillsbury Doughboy with NO training.
Sometimes I think stories sound good, get momentum and take on a life of their own. I think the idea that new, precision-fit 1911s like to jam may be one of those. I own a Wilson and a Nighthawk and I shoot the daylights out of them and I never have any problems with jamming. I usually run 600 to 800 rounds through them between cleaning and they are solidly dirty when I finally take them apart. Still… they seem to run.
Anyone have personal experience with high-end 1911s that live up to the reputation as being too precise to run well? I just haven’t run into it myself.
A collectible gun with a rich history, yes. A highly, customizable race gun, yes.
Carry gun, nope. Home defense gun, it’s a pistol, so still nope.
1911s are slick guns, but they aren’t worth the money, and they don’t really rev my engine, like they seem to do with some other folks.
Well said, Andrew. Thank you.
Sigh. Hopefully in a few decades when I’m an OFWG I won’t have to have this conversation every damn day. By then most of the 1911 fans will be dead and we won’t have to endure the non-stop drivel of nostalgia, stubbornness and emotional investment.
YES, I understand if you buy a $3,000 nighthawk it will be good, provided that it is maintained meticulously.
YES, I understand that the old guns with loose tolerances ran better.
YES, I understand that it has a long track record.
YES, I understand that it is ergonomic and easy to shoot.
I. Don’t. Care.
No, cause the only 1911’s I like, and could trust, are extremely expensive (Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Les Baer) and I would probably never carry them in fear of damaging the finish. I’ll stick to Glocks and M&P’s cause I could care less what happens to them. Custom hand fitted 1911’s are art, and I ain’t a art collector.
Nice paraphrase.
Good writeup. I am always flummoxed by the notion that the intended victim must respond in a “reasonable” manner. Was the attacker reasonablein deciding to attack? To limit the victim to only reasonable measures we give tactical advantage to the criminal. We don’t tell the cape buffalo that it isn’t very likely that a lion will attack him specifically but just in case one does we’re going to cut off your horns so that your response will not be unreasonable. This kind of thinking reminds me of the near-legitimization of robbery/assault as a profession in England, where the victim defending himself is just as likely to face prosecution as the criminal.
When I think of “reasonable manner” being a qualification, I think its purpose is more so that one doesn’t think that they are justified in pulling out a rifle and shooting someone who is 50 yards away but happens to be trespassing (perhaps unintentionally) on someone’s property.
But I’ll admit I’m not sure how prosecutors manipulate the expression.
It’s my understanding that the test they are SUPPOSED to use is actually outlined in the article above as “objective reasonableness.”
The question to be answered is “what would another person think with the same set of facts as you had at the time?”
I’m on board with all of this, particularly that it all boils down to you following the law and operating within each of its parameters. Ultimately, it’s not about “getting off”, but rather not getting into this kind of trouble in the first place.
That said, let me just add one bit about legal knowledge. While it *can* be countered that learning the law means you followed the law, it can also backfire. Maybe not on its own, but if the other elements of the crime are in place and there are holes in your self-defense claim, then flaunting knowledge of the law might be viewed negatively. Quick example:
Fireman in Baytown, TX near Houston had an ongoing feud with his frequently partying neighbors. One such party night, he takes his video camera, sidearm and concealed carry license next door to their house. He stands on the sidewalk filming for maybe 10 minutes before anyone notices. When they noticed, taunts went back and forth across the front yard. Eventually a partygoer(s) appoaches the fireman, who then starts reciting CHL class buzz words and phrases for the recording. Things like “I feel I’m in lethal danger!” “I’m standing my ground!” “I’ll have to stop the threat!” or similar. Eventually he shot and killed one of the people who approached him.
The DA argued he was spoiling for a fight, for a shooting, and was just setting up his defense in advancewith his knowledge of the law. He was convicted of murder last year. It’s probably the main elements that got him convicted, but who knows if his seemingly self-serving use of the law might have pushed a juror or two into the guilty column?
Hopefully no one would buy a firearm for EDC, especially a version 1.0, based on a single review. Want to see the opposite of Nick’s not-so-subliminally-hostile review? Check out any of the NRA publications’ reviews.
That being said, I appreciate the reviews on TTAG (especially from Mr. Grine) because they give me details of what to look and feel for when checking out a new gun.
I agree with Sys-Eng above regarding Nick’s predictable comments when given the chance to compare something with a SCAR or FN-related. That doesn’t help, especially when trying to defend a review about other products.
OMG! You effing people are RUINING the Second Amendment for the rest of us pantywaists!!! OMG!!!
Your sarc-lock is stuck…
A society that open carries together respects each other as well.
I have never, in hundreds if not thousands of rounds, experienced a failure with my series 70 colt. I would argue that a quality 1911, built to gi specs, will treat its owner right, provided the owner likewise takes care of it. That said, I’ve managed squeeze failures out of my AK on occasion ; a firearm famed for its reliability. Sometimes, an angel just comes along and pisses in the lock of your musket, I suppose.
Have you ever noticed that open carry demonstrators behave far better than the mindless mobs who invade shoe stores on the day a new Michael Jordan model is released? or the Occupy Wall Street jolterheads? or the sodomites who weep & wail because a Christian baker won’t make them a “wedding” cake? or the pail-beating poltroons who tried to get Governor Scott Walker recalled in Wisconsin? etc.
No love for the 1911 here. Why bother with a pistol that consistently fails when there are lots of other pistols that consistently perform properly? I really believe the 1911 is as popular as it is because so many people love to tinker with their guns and they love the challenge of trying to get the 1911 to work right. And there are so many pieces in the silly thing to play with…tinkerers love stuff like that.
Capacity doesn’t bother me. Eight or nine shots with a few reloads is more than sufficient for any foreseeable purpose I might encounter. And I like me some .45 ACP as well.
But, c’mon, guys. Who can love a gun that needs 10 parts just for the grip panels?
(It’s really a gun I sort of admire but it’s not a gun I will ever use or own again.)
smh…
just when I thought I couldn’t be more ashamed of my state..
In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence as positive proof of its non-occurrence.
Not a 1911 fan here. It’s a great platform, but it’s a great old platform. It was designed to be rugged, saftied (I made up that word) to a fare-thee-well so that farmboys in uniforms — experts with rifles — wouldn’t be shooting off their own balls with their first handgun.
The same farmboys could repair a tractor with a screwdriver and a pair of pliers, so they could figure out how to maintain the pistol while carrying it in a holster with a flap to keep out the crud of battle.
It’s also chambered for a big, slooooow round with a lot of mass, which was perfect for shooting half-naked, hopped-up Moros.
Now it’s 100 years later. For range work, sure, go with a 1911. For collecting purposes, what could be better than a battle-carried original M1911? For open carry, well, it’s your choice, but why not? For concealed carry, the 1911 is too big, too heavy by half a pound and too finicky with HP ammo.
YMMV.
Most 1911 problems, aside from HP problems, are really 1911 magazine problems. If the pistol didn’t work, it would not have lasted for over a century.
“I see precious few cases where a homeowner has warded off an intruder with 10 or more bullets.”
In other words, if only a few people have to die in order to preserve our unconstitutional infringement on the rights of our citizens, then that price is worth it.
It’s really not up to you jackass since you are INFRINGING on the 2nd Amendment.I know you don’t THINK you are,but you ARE!
Good news: I agree with the judge that it is highly unlikely that the bag guys will stick around after you the shoot the first guy and the fight will be over before you get past 5 rounds.
Bad news: So what. The Constitution says I got a right to have it just like I have the right to buy a big house for two people or a car that goes 180mph even I never drive it past 80.
Jared Reston’s first gunfight: good guy fired seven (if I recall correctly) rounds, three of which were point blank, muzzle-in-contact-with-skin cranial shots. Good guy was still shot 7 times himself (some in body armor).
Justin Schnieders gunfight: Good guy fired 7-8 rounds and himself sustained 3 (or four) gunshot wounds.
Many other examples exist.
Point being: Real gun fights tend to be a lot “sloppier” and involve a LOT more shooting than popularly thought.
I don’t know where this judge is getting his data, but there are real cases where the good guys needed more than x rounds (whatever is the flavor of the day).
1986 FBI gunfight: good guys fired something around 77 rounds at two bad guys.
1997 North Hollywood Shootout: Good guys fired about 650 rounds at two bad guys.
So, where’s the standard? What “could” happen?
The whole mag limit argument is stupid on its face.
My feeling is that if a person cannot be trusted with being able to purchase and use firearms, then they really can’t be trusted in society without them. Conversely, if we *can* Trust them to live in society, which they should be if our justice system is truly effective, then we should have no reason to deny them their rights.
I agree that there are lots of BS felonies. A hit and run with any injury – even the most minor complaint of pain – is a felony. It could be a legitimate lack of communication.
I’ll say this though: restoring the rights of felons is absolutely at the bottom of my list. Our justice system is a mess, and these minor crimes listed above (the victimless ones) should not even be felonies. As to the rapists, violent felons, etc., I have no desire for their rights to be restored. Let’s face it, they’ll vote for Democrats and other dirtbags.
I do stand for the 2nd exactly as written, I just realize that a lot of work must be done to restore the US to the society that the Founding Fathers intended. If we actually put people in jail for serious crimes only, then matters would be much simpler. We’d actually have the jail space to keep violent dirtbags locked up (or executed), and we’d all be better off for it.
As it is, statism and rampant law making are strangling the essential freedoms that were once the hallmark of our nation. We are weaker for it.
Holder is taking a page of the DNC playbook in Puerto Rico (yes, I know. Roll your eyes if you must, but read on). Felons in PR are not only allowed to vote but all prisioners can (and are expected to)vote while still in jail. What this has created is a political subdivision into which every election, local politicians meet with the penal sector leaders (kingpins) and negotiate privileges and other leverages for their votes. Then said leaders coerce their fellow gang members into voting for the highest bidder. The total number of inmates is about 17,000. Which represents a significant portion of votes in a contested election. It was touted as a progressive marvel of the rehabilitation process. But you may know by now, that Puerto Rico is a sinking sailship of failed liberal policies.
Backwards thinking. The people don’t have to demonstrate a need for something in order to justify being allowed it. It’s the government that has to justify banning it.
I guess up in San Francisco, the pony express hasn’t yet brought news of the 1965 Watts riots or the 1992 Rodney King riots. “Ohhh…..those are once-in-a-generation, rare phenomenon. Hardly worth setting policy by.” Well.
Keep rewriting the Constitution to infringe on people’s God-given right to defend themselves, pal, and the people of this country might start bracing for a re-imagination of the word “rare.”
Yep. I read some interesting stories in a Korean American anniversary collection, of stories told by the various shopkeepers and family members talking about how the AKs they used to defend their stores were the key difference, when LA Police were instructed to pull out.
I would say the problem here is the use of the term 1911.
There are 1911’s and there are 1911’s. I personally own several dozen of them. In just about every caliber they can possibly be chambered in. From probably 20 different normal manufacturers(i.e. Kimber, Colt, S&W, SA, etc.); plus some of the high end custom ones and some home built ones. Some work 100%, some don’t.
Here is the thing. They are not all the same gun, even if we are talking about just the .45acp ones. Heck even if we say Colt 1911 in .45ACP, they are not all the same. There are different generations and different internals.
You can’t really compare 1911 to a Glock. You could to an extent compare Springfield Armory such an such model 1911 to a Glock. Now we are talking about two specific manufacturers and specific models and can compare that reliability more fairly.
It’s lazy to say is a 1911 worth it, you have to be a whole lot more specific than that. If someone really likes the look, feel, trigger, etc. of the 1911, they can absolutely find one that is as reliable as any other firearm out there. They may have to do some research and may even have to try a few different makes and models, but they can. It can still be “worth it.” Especially since there is just nothing like the trigger on a 1911. 🙂
The entire thing about confirming re-assembly integrity is getting way overblown.
Buy a goddamn snap cap already and find out. Seriously.
I would not like to see mainstream American “journalists” kidnapped, tortured and killed.
Waterboarded, maybe, but that’s as far as I’m willing to go.
This is what happens when politicians are on bended knee to criminals.
So the ANTIS want just the police and military to have the guns. In the video above the commentator pointed out that the BAAAAAAD guys out numbered the cops. But, there are laws against all of the bad things going on in the videos. So to any ANTIS who might be perusing these pages please take note the laws aren’t stopping those who don’t obey the laws. Hey Dianne Frankenstein where are you?
The police have lost the respect of the people so the people don’t respect the police. It will take blood to restore it
From this picture of Cuomo, I can only draw one conclusion. It seems as if the amount of shit spewed by someone is directly proportional to how large their mouth is…
“Do as I say, not as I do”…One of the many mantra’s of the elitist/leftist/liberal bastards…
Giving commissioners his “permission” to disobey the law sounds like conspiracy to commit a felony to me. Since the AG won’t prosecute in the face of willful non-compliance with the law, shouldn’t this go to the Federal AG’s office – oh. Nevermind.
It also appears to be grounds for impeachment, if NY has that option.
If your 1911 runs good, I don’t think it has any more of a chance of failing than any other well-functioning pistol.
Oh, and it’s not a matter of if, but when, ALL guns will malfunction. I watched an inexperienced female shooter suffer malfunction after malfunction with my G17 and a G19. She had no issues firing my 1911. Was the shooter the problem? Sure. However, whatever she wasn’t doing right, my 1911 didn’t care.
I can’t help it……..New Yorkers should be ashamed for voting for this Sh*T bag
Andrew… azienda me…tu se profiono sfacim
I’ve had mine for 6 months and CC it everywhere (with a shoulder rig) and love it! Way too heavy to carry iwb though.
I think it should be chosen at random. If i had no life i would get all my friends to vote on a picture i sent in.. But this working for a living is getting in the way of me getting free stuff!!! Sound familiar?
Isn’t this where Feinstein (a.k.a. Wicked Witch of the West) comes from? Is there a breeder somewhere in the Bay or something?
I love the idea of having an ffl. However I am to paranoid about the feds knowing A:What firearms I have purchased for any reason, and B: The feds even knowing that I exist, yet alone my firearm purchases. Even as a business. IMHO and according to the constitution, where no power is given to the feds to know, it’s none of their damn business.
That’s a funny looking GLOCK.
I carry a Springfield 1911 that I’ve had for 20 years. It started not locking up after 2 magazines through it last week. I replaced the recoil spring and it works just fine. Granted I don’t shoot but a couple of times a month and always use ball ammo, but it’s been reliable for twenty years. If it ain’t broke …
While any weapon can fail I haven’t had a 1911 fail in over 20 years. I’ve seen plenty of revolvers locked up tight though.
When has Oakland ever been a law abiding town?
There are just some cities that are cesspools: Oakland, Chicago, Washington DC, Boston, Atlanta, Memphis, New York, Baltimore, and Philadephia. Do not use them as the example of what’s wrong in our society.
Ruger Jumped the shark
Women are biologically geared to seek out bright/pretty objects. Black/Pink is outside that parameter!
#No women on Ruger’s Mtk Team
If you want to commit suicide wouldnt such a sign be a positive indicator for you?
“Gee, I’d really like to kill myself. Now how should I go about it?”
—-Sees sign in gun store window—-
“Hey, a gun will get it done!”
I agree with this completely. I’ve only ever open carried once, but I’m working up to do it again. The first time I don’t even know that anyone noticed.
As far as I know no one is legally carrying YET in Illinois. If I see someone open carrying I assume (rightly or wrongly) they’re a cop or a guard. I like in Cook County,Illinois. Most people are blissfully unaware. Kinda like the enormous cadre of sheep who constantly wear headphones all the time. If you can open carry Do IT.
If you have to keep your right concealed from view, it really doesn’t exist. It you aren’t allowed to conceal your right from view, it still doesn’t exist. The option belongs in the hand of the one exercising their rights.
I agree with RF that our tactical move needs to deal with the view of non-gunners first but also influence anti-gunners.
What we project in that regard is critical. And in order of my personal preference, the following:
1. Khakis and Polo professional look , Glock 19,26 or M&P Compact etc. in a nice OWB holster. Projecting, not LEO but just as safe.
2. Ladies as ladies dress. Gun size, proportional, Projecting, women need self-protection too.
3. Jeans and T-shirt (clean) casual but responsible. Same equipment as above. Projecting purposeful competence.
4. Long Bearded, pot belly, leather vest, well used jeans with a cocked and locked 1911. Projecting, slight anti-government slant. (I see ’em all the time)
5. Dressed whatever, AR slung on back. Projecting: this guy is dangerous or trying to make some political point by some stupid stunt.
6. #5 plus camo and tactical vest. Projecting, I’m a nut.
7. #6 but all black and a balaclava. Prjecting, I AM dangerous.
Yeah yeah stereotypes all the way, but used to our advantage.
Regarding hunting, the best times I had with my late aunt and grandmother were quail hunting. Mom gave me my first gun, a Rem 1100 lt, for bird hunting. My son doesn’t want to hunt, but he enjoys the family shoots.
I think any time you share a skill with your offspring, you are bonding.
Pretty uninformed article. Modern Kevlar, or especially Kevlar hybrids are extremely flexible and light. A Rhino Armor 11×14″, comparing to what is quoted in the article, is 17 ounces, very flexible, and has a 30+ year proven track record, and are $129 from our distributor. Carbon nano tubes are new, there is no long term testing on how they hold up. So proven performer or fancy new item with no record?
“Somehow, [obstructing others’ natural rights] increases your judgment and makes you smarter than other citizens.”
FLAME DELETED
I agree with Thomas, but I think the NRA should jump behind this. They’ve always been the foremost gun safety advocates, and there’s no reason not to support a humorous take on gun safety and responsible use/ownership. In fact, it brings attention to the NRA’s hard work and advocacy here, and the success in reducing accidental deaths. Supporting these guys in the efforts to bring the number of accidental/negligent deaths to 0 while ignoring the hysterics of the anti crowd would do great things for the perception of the NRA among undecideds.
What? Another RF article dissing the 1911 pistol. Yawn.
It’s OK.NJ will be brought to heel, one way or the other.
Either NJ politicians can follow the US Constitution, or they can be broken against it.
I know a local fellow who is a popular t-shirt seller. He told me that he recently made the mistake of attending other-sponsored shows in FL and Suncoast gave him a “warning”. He later missed one Suncoast show, which he says he paid for, but was unable to attend due to an emergency, resulting in the show having an empty table. Suncoast informed him that he no longer is welcome at their events.
Better get on it fast before you need a Class 3 and tax stamp.
Well think you need to put things in perspective first what are you going to use the gun for. Remember this is a sub compact .45 you will not be using it for 100 yard shots. Most defensive shootings are 7 yards or less. With the extended 7 rd magazine you get much better control. The situation were you will need a discreet carry it will need to chambered in something that can give you one shoot knockdown and the 9mm doesn’t have it , the .40 has too much kickback making a second shot difficult so the logical choice is .45 with enough knockdown and less recoil the the .40 so you can follow up the second shot. Use the right tool for the right job. Before you buy a gun just to buy a gun think of what you are going to use it for it will save you money in the long run. Use the right tool for the right job. The XDS is a good place to start.
I hope he cut a better / tighter deal with Sig than he did with Remington.
Is it worth it? Yes. It’s a beautiful machine, not as plain jane as a generic tool called a Glock, but not that I have anything against Glocks. Browning’s pistol has seen over a hundred years of American history and service in every war. It’s also a very good design as in the trigger, the comfortable ergonomics of the grip angle and single stack thin frame, the thumb safety being right where it should be, all the custom options available, and of course the powerful cartridge. It’s heavy and clunky, but solid, you can whip someone to a pulp and it soaks up recoil. For those that can shoot .45 well and is good with a 1911, this is the gun for you. I think it’s a good choice for those that live in 10 round magazine limit states. I like Colt but most Colts usually don’t come included with tritium sights, match barrel, match trigger, and rail like the Kimber TLEs. Do prefer the original spur hammer over skeletonized, for aesthetic purposes. It was good enough for GIs for over 70 years through two world wars, Korea, Vietnam, and beyond so it’s good enough for me.