Question of the Day: Got Air?

1. Give me a pump-up + PCP multi shot rifle that can take readily available muzzleloader bullets and launch them at something approaching muzzleloader speeds and I’ll be real excited. Basically a modern version of the Girardoni Air Rifle.

   • The only person I ever met who made a serious effort at producing large bore high power airguns for sale is Gary Barnes. But others may have popped up in the last 15 years without my knowledge.

     http://www.glbarnes.com/

   • http://www.pyramydair.com/a/Air_guns/Air_rifles/150/calibers_0_357

     http://www.pyramydair.com/a/Air_guns/Air_rifles/150/calibers_0_45

     http://www.pyramydair.com/a/Air_guns/Air_rifles/150/calibers_0_5

   • Sounds like you want a Quackenbush airgun. http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/index.htm

     • WHOOP! Quackenbush 458.! Shoots any lead appropriate for the 45/70. Does best with 430. Not quite BP territory, but its’ pretty neat.

       Peep deez leads
       http://mrhollowpoint.com/6764.html

     • Dennis is a nice guy, has been building a quality product for decades, and good luck even getting on the wait list. If you’re patient, I’ve seen the occasional cancellation appear – jump on it like a pit bull on a burrito.

2. My first “gun” as a kid was a Benjamin .17 cal pump air rifle. Got it for my 8th birthday, and after an obligatory safety lesson being drilled into my head and subsequent demonstration that I could be responsible, my dad turned me loose in the backyard with 2 rules I had to follow. No shooting at anything above knee height, and I was not allowed to have someone pump the rifle for me, which meant that until I got the hang of it, the best I could do was poke holes in paper or only one side of aluminum cans and scare the hell out of any squirrels and pigeons that dared enter the lower realms of our yard. As I got the hang of pumping the thing and got stronger I was able to unlock the true force of that little air rifle. In the right hands it is accurate enough to shoot the caps off of soda bottles from across the yard (~20-25 yds) and many a doomed squirrel that dared to steal birdseed out of my mother’s bird feeders has caught a 17cal pellet in the back of the head. That air rifle is one of, if not my most prized possessions.

3. Better get one before the antis figure out its a gun, and before alphabet soup figures out how to tax the “sound moderator”…

   • Good point. CA airgunners were able, with NRA and retail lobby voices of reason, to exclude airguns from mandatory “all parts colored in orange” law passed in Sacramento in their hysterical over-reaction to the cop killing of the 12 year old that was SWATTED by nervous PTA mommies.

     But that wont last for long, I am sure. Kamala Harris is running for Senate, I hear, and she’ll be needing some Executive Action creds to raise big bux from Bloomberg, Gates, and other thumbsuckers in Silicon Valley, especially since she is losing badly, in 2A court cases, desperately delayed in the 9th by every trick in the legal book, before it goes to SCOTUS.

4. I had a Crosman 760 PumpMaster growing up. It was accurate out to 30 yards and killed many a tweety bird in its day.

   That particular gun and I parted ways many years ago, so when it came time to purchase another air rifle I again went with the trusty 760 PumpMaster. What a disappointment! It was obvious that the quality control is basically nil. I was lucky to hit paper at ten paces let alone 30 yards. What happened to my old companion? Has anyone else experienced similar occurances?

   • They are no longer rifled.

     The one I got for my 8th birthday was rifled, soon after that they stopped. I’m 22……

     • They should have kept the rifling. It all comes down to the all mighty dollar. It was cheaper not to rifle it. I’ll pay a few extra dollars for a much more accurate gun.

   • I have my grandfather’s 761xl…basically a beautiful wood and brass version of the current plastic760. I would shoot the tops off milk jugs at 20 yards growing up. If only I could bring it down to Tennessee… too much sentimental value to put it on a plane or ship it.

     • You don’t have a car?

   • Same here. I’d like to get another for nostalgia purposes but the lack of rifling and shoddy qc on the new ones really kill it for me.

   • My son received a Crosman airsoft pistol as a present. Damn thing can’t even reliably hit a 12″ x 12″ target from six feet. I was wondering if that was the nature of airsoft guns, or if Crosman’s quality is just in the basement these days…it’s a far cry from the Crosman pellet guns I remember from my childhood.

     • Oddly enough, Crosman 1377’s (the bolt-action, multi-pump pistol) are still wickedly accurate. They also cost around $60…I guess you have to pay for quality.

   • I still have the 760 and Crossman will sell you parts for maintenance. I have found older ones at Tag Sales that were not working because of bad seals that I have been able to repair and get working for my nieces and nephews and there are plenty of YouTube videos that show you how to repair them. The newer models are terrible!

5. Having grown up in NJ, I can tell you that air guns were not part of my childhood. We had cap pistols, and that was it until I became 18 and jumped into real firearms. First gun was a Marlin bolt action, tube fed .22LR rifle with a “micro-groove” TM barrel that I could shoot the thumb tacks out of my targets when I was finished with them. I have a CO2 pistol now, and an antique Beeman pump action pellet gun scrounged from somewhere thsat needs repair to work, and that is the extant of my air guns.

6. Meh. For 75 FP of muzzle energy at $800, I would rather spend a bit more and get a suppressor for a cartridge rifle. Of course, it helps to live in a state where you can do that.

   • Air rifles can produce way more than 70FP these days. They go all the way up to 1000 FP and some of the big bores can fire 400g bullets at 1000 fps and with superior accuracy to most powder burners (and with far less noise).

     It is also worth noting that one can buy semi-automatic and even fully automatic air rifles that fire up to .50 caliber pellets / bullets or round balls.

     Powder burners definitely have some advantages but so do air rifles. Namely, it is much easier to control the level of energy. There are far fewer legal restrictions and hurdles on ownership and use. .22 and .25 caliber rifles for small game hunting are available for less than $500 with built in moderators and produce less than 85db’s – they can be used in the back yard for practice without disturbing the neighbors. Ammunition is far cheaper and easier to buy.

     Powder burners can definitely be bought for less and have greater power but a decent collection should have both imo.

7. My very, very first was a tube fed marlin semi auto .22, that constantly jammed..bought it from my best friends dad for 25.00 when i was 10
   I used to shoot in the field behind my house… after the houses went in, I used to catch the bus to the gun range… box of wildcats and rifle in hand.

   • Unless it was made under the ownership of the Angry Puppy, the only way a Marlin/Glenfield 60 malfunctions is if there is something very, very wrong. It’s like a Nylon 66, they run like trains until someone, somehow, breaks them.

     I’ve got a couple of 60s that have had at least 40K rounds each down the pipe. They never malfunction unless the ammo sucks.

8. Loved my RWS 48.

9. For a .30 or .35 cal PCP (most definitely not a “pump” airgun, although as with any PCP I guess if you are masochistic enough it is possible to use a separate handpump), it’s not bad. However, price out .30 or .35 pellets before you take the plunge . . . they are usually more expensive than .22LR ammo.

   I guess if you were looking for a dedicated airgun for nailing coyotes or other medium prey in an area where using firearms was impossible/impractical, the Hatsans would be OK, and are a fraction of the costs of most other quality large bore airguns. For my money, however, I think a Benjamin Marauder in .22. or .25 (street price: about $450) is pretty generally recognized as giving you the most bang for the buck. Get it properly tuned and find what flavor your particular MRod likes best and you can stack pellets atop one other all day at 20-30 yards and shoot 1/2 groups at 50 yards (at 850-900 fps). And you can get a tin of 500 match grade pellets for under $15.

   Just remember that while PCP airguns are great for practice and taking small game (or if you get into big bore airguns, larger game as well), you are going to have to spend another $300 or more for a SCUBA/SCBA tank and regulator to fill the gun, or more than that for a compressor that can fill something to 3000 PSI. Even a handpump that will work is going to set you back $100 or more (and they take a lot more time and effort than they are worth, IMO).

   • Thanks. That seems a good summation of best value point for noob airgunners who want some varmint capabilty, beyond ground sqirrels eating the garden. And the built in sound suppression on Mrods does not meet ATFs definition, yet, at least according to most wise sources, but that has not been tested either, in definitive court cases, so CA residents, caveat emptor.

10. I have a nice one pump Ruger Airhawk in .177 that will break the sound barrier with alloy pellets. I have a three story snipers nest that is my back deck overlooking the woods. Plenty of squirrels call it home. Squirrel shooting looks like a lot of fun but I don’t hunt and when I do, it will be for food. I’m not about to clean and cook a squirrel. I know people shoot squirrels for sport and rodent control, but I have a personal issue with killing an animal that is not bothering me. The only thing they do is gnaw off a few thin branches from my hickory and oak trees. That doesn’t bother me. It is fun to see eagles and owls swoop down and snag one off a tree. Rare sight but I have seen it.
    My question is a moral one. Why do I need to shoot squirrels? I have no problem with people who do, but I just don’t see the benefit outweighing the personal remorse. Help me out with this dilemma.
    A little background: When I was 9 I killed a blue bird with a head shot with a stone that I threw side arm to clear under a bridge from 40ft. One throw, one kill. A million to one shot. I didn’t believe I could do it so I took the chance. It was a clean hit and the bird tumbled several times. I was shocked I hit it, but then I felt terrible. I blamed the bird. “Why didn’t you fly?!” Then I rationalized that it must have been injured and that is why it was just hopping along. I told myself that I just put it out of misery. I still felt bad though.

    • I don’t think you have a moral dilemma. Unless they are tearing up your house, or destroying a “crop”, there is no reason to just kill a squirrel.

      • Tree squirrels, no. Ground squirrels though…those little guys can ruin a levee in no time.

        • Indeed. In Fernley, NV, ground squirrels caused the rupture of a major irrigation canal’s side, and a large number of houses were flooded out when the canal’s side collapsed from being swiss-cheesed by the ground squirrels.

          In the end, squirrels (both tree and ground) are nothing more than rats with a good PR department.

        • Grey squirrels are omnivores, and as such, will make their fallen comrades disappear post haste.

      • My wife’s family had a family of squirrels completely take over the produce of 4 pecan trees that had been in their yard for 40 years, they used to mail out 3-4 lb bags of shelled pecans to everyone they knew, were reduced to buying pecans for cooking. An air rifle would have been good, but I didn’t think of it (I had one). But my trusty Anschutz in .17 HMR, in a crowded neighborhood, plucked enough of them that some pecans reached the ground again. My father-in-law had been trying with an old .22 which had probably never been cleaned or sighted in, made lotsa noise but couldn’t hit them. I went out with a 4-round magazine, came back in 5 minutes later with one shot left and 3 dead squirrels, and those two octogenarians were literally jumping up and down with excitement, they hated those squirrels so much. And no, we did not eat the nasty things.

        Currently I have a relative who has 250 acres near Houston, grew up selling pecans roadside to get spending money, large grove of pecan trees, currently has pecan shells 6-12 inches deep around the trees, hasn’t seen a pecan in years. I tried to get him to join me for an hour of cleaning up, but we haven’t managed yet. We’d have to have backup in case the pigs showed up! Squirrels suck.

11. Grew up in NJ. My late father made sure that his children (and anyone else in the neighborhood) learned to shoot from our driveway at Prestone antifreeze cans in the back of our garage. I got some serious airguns before moving to more conventional firearms, and still enjoy shooting my FWB 603 offhand at targets in my Pennsylvania back yard.
    Airguns are a great way to train during ammo shortages, cold weather, or when you can’t spare the time to get to the range.

12. I enjoy my airguns as much as my firearms. They’re cheaper to shoot and they require the same skill set. Take care of them and you can pass them on down to future generations.
    Sheridan air rifle 35 yrs.
    Beeman R1 air rifle 31 yrs.
    Beeman P1 air pistol 30 yrs.

13. Very interesting. I sometimes watch American Airgunner on Sportsman Channel, Yeah I too had a BB gun as a kid but I never saw anything like this. It seems like it would be a good fit for a prepper/apocalypse stash…

14. ” Today’s air rifles are still pump action (removed from the video above)” Huh? No, make that HUH!!!!?
    That rifle CLEARLY is not a pump up, but rather a PCP (Pre-Charged Pneumatic)
    There are four types or air rifles
    1. Pneumatic Airguns including (PCP)
    2. Spring-Piston Airguns
    3. CO2 Airguns.
    4. Gas Ram Airguns

    I’m only going to address Pneumatic because I dislike needlessly long wordy comments.
    Blasting a pellet out of a barrel with a pneumatic involves either pumping up the rifle with either a cocking handle, usually up to ten pumps like on a Crosman, some using a single stroke lever.
    PCPs have a reservoir or built in air-tank on the rifle. The rifle in the video has the tank below the barrel.
    These are filled with a hand-pump or some folks like myself utilize scuba tanks. With scuba tanks, the air is dry and no pumping. The benefits of a PCP is variable power, incredible accuracy, easy cocking, no recoil and lots of shots from an air charge.
    I have three air rifles. One being an old Crosman, a Eun Jim Sumatra 2500 (PCP) and a 2014 Benjamin Marauder in .22 with wood stocks (suppressed) also a PCP

    • That’s Eun Jin not Eun JIM. Darn limited edit time!!

    • Suppressed? Is that necessary? Hell, is that legal?

      • Yes as the suppressor can not be removed and used on a firearm. And yes, a PCP air rifle can be loud as hell!
        That Eun Jin Sumatra of mine is really REALLY loud. It has a very loud POW, not a supersonic crack. I can not fire that in the back yard as it is easily heard for two blocks. My suppressed Benjamin, all you hear is slight ping noise from the rifle and the sound of the pellet hitting… whatever. I shot a squirrel a few weeks ago hanging on a pole in the corner of my yard at a distance of 35 yards. The pellet impact sound was clearly discernible and Mr. Squirrel dropped.

15. I’ve developed a love for air rifles and have been scoping out this Hatsan.

    About a year ago I got a Benjamin Marauder. By the time I was done tweaking and tuning it I got it shooting like I wanted and I REALLY like in spite of it’s flaws. The reason it took a lot of work is it’s one of their .22 caliber rifles. They use close to the same OD barrels as the .177, so the bigger hole means a flimsy barrel. Also due to pearl-clutching in the airgun community over the shrouded barrel not being free-floated enough on earlier versions, the newer one I got is completely floated through the barrel band. The problem with this is the barrel (which isn’t too rigid due to the small OD and .22 caliber) combined with the full length shroud, air stripper, and baffles (suppression), is a lot of flimsy weight supported at only one end. The QC on the .22 barrels isn’t that great either, and the steel doesn’t hold up very well.

    So this sounds like a lot of complaining but I learned a lot of things, and the rest of the gun is pretty nice. I put an aftermarket barrel and a set-screw barrel band on it from Jim Gaska, I free floated the air reservoir in the stock, and pillar and glass bedded the action. The set screw barrel band effectively un-free-floats the barrel w.r.t. the air reservoir, but I have not noticed any point of aim shift related to reservoir pressure level since I installed this part. I did a polish job on all the internal parts, tuned the valves, and now I can get 1/2″ groups at 50 YARDS for about 40 pellets on ONE FILL. (P.S., pellet quality matters, JSB Diabolo 18.13 grains). This is almost the accuracy of my nicer rimfire rifles (I generally wouldn’t be able to shoot better than that with any rifle I think). The rifle is very powerful for an air rifle. It’ll kill any small game you want to go for with well placed shots.

    I’m happy with it and I still spent less with the upgrades than buying a higher end rifle. The experience was entertaining and again, I did learn a lot. What I feel is a un-fixable flaw in the Benjamin Marauder design is how the barrel is attached to the action. There is a hole in the action, and the barrel slides in, then there are two set screws that clamp down on top of the barrel. I don’t think this is a very stable method, pushing a round surface into another round surface from one direction. Threading the barrel into the action would be much better, or a barrel nut design, or something like the CZ 455 or Anschutz set screw system (two screws push back on angled cuts on the barrel to mate a precision milled flat at the back of the barrel against a precision milled flat in the action). The next PCP Air gun I will get I’ll know exactly what I want in terms of construction. The trigger on the Marauder is nice and very adjustable, but I’d like to be able to adjust the overtravel too and there is no provision for this. I’d give the Marauder top marks on the valve and firing system, and the magazines work nicely.

    -D

    • Too bad you didn’t wait for the redesigned 2014 Marauder. Such a nice shooting rifle. Factory installed depinger, moved the trigger back…just a dream to shoot. Squirrels hate it. Oh, and that suppressed barrel….virtually silent.
      Can’t be shooting rodents in a backyard with a powder rifle. Not in a residential area.

      • This was a 2014 redesigned marauder.

    • The old .22 MRod’s were definitely hit and miss with the barrel quality. I must have lucked out, in that the one I got is a winner.

      Had it “deep tuned” by a gent up in Dallas (which included a trigger job, working the ledes and crown, and polishing all the moving parts — all for under a C note). Action is silky smooth and the trigger is now like a telepathic link. And with the right pellet (H&N FTT’s), it’s ridiculously accurate (one hole at 25 yards all day long).

      • Yeah, I went through 3 factory barrels before I ended up going with an aftermarket one. Polishing the leade and the barrel with JB Bore Paste did greatly improve the factory barrels in terms of group size, but they’d all still throw occasional fliers. If it wasn’t for occasional POI shifts I’d have blamed it on the pellets.

        The other thing is I think I was expecting too much in terms of accuracy for this particular design… seeking to shoot 1 MOA at 50 yards for 40 shots in a row. Probably a bit unrealistic. But with Jim Gaska’s barrel and set screw barrel band I can hit a 1/2″ 10 shot group at 50 yards occasionally, and from what I’m gathering that’s more than most people would require or expect of this model air rifle. At 50 yards with an air rife there are so many more external factors that the system is sensitive to, due to the low projectile weight and relatively slow velocity.

    • Lots of options. Check out pyramid air.

16. uh… pass.

    I prefer my cartridge fed rifle. Can anyone say 62,000 psi? Can’t get that out of any air gun in existence.

    • Uh, you’re missing the point. No gun is perfect in every situation. Air rifles have a clear purpose as do powder rifles. You have more than a screwdriver in your tool box right?

17. My air rifle for me was a Crosman 781. Not as good as others but still an accurate little gun. Suprisingly after 14 years the rifle still works perfect. I’m actually a little suprised the seals haven’t given out after that period of time with zero upkeep.

18. A couple of years ago I cycled through a range of air rifles and pistols, moving up to fancy $$$ target pistols and custom tuned rifles… and they are awesome, definitely great for smaller properties, practice, and plinking. But in the end, when you want to put down something larger than a squirrel, an inexpensive semi-auto 22 with a blister-pack 4x scope gets the job done better than a $2000 FX PCP .30 cal uber-rifle.

    Basically anything from Walmart is going to be kind of cheesy but still effective. For under $500 you can get a truly well-made German airgun (.177 single shot springer) that will last a lifetime. Look for one that has already been tuned by a (air)gunsmith and watch some videos for how to shoot it properly (different than a powder burner). But for practical hunting… it can be done but it’s a lot harder to do it well.

    • The type of rifle you describe should not be used for hunting and pest control except for very small game and pests like squirrels, rats, mice, birds. Larger game and pests like a skunk is not appropriate or ethical. That is why they sell the larger caliber PCPs. You need more power and larger caliber, like a .20 .22 or .25 You wouldn’t go hunting large game with a .22 rim-fire rifle and you don’t hunt game with with a .177 plinker. .177 is appropriate for plinking, target shooting and small pests.

19. Xisico XS46U .22 cal. Gas Ram conversion by Mike Melick of Flying Dragon Air Rifles.

    Yeah, it’s Chinese. So are your sneakers. Yeah, they will take over the world with our help. In 25 years plus or minus I will not be in this world. No grand kids, so no dog in this fight.

    See http://tedsholdover.com/ and his tubbee channel for some ground squirrel and chipmunk eradication justification. The huggers want him dead too.

20. I’d choose a quality 22LR rifle and silencer over an airgun any day. Even with the ATF hassles.

21. As a kid, I had a Crosman 761XL. Brass receiver and wood stock… it was NICE in its day. I even had a scope on it. It was very special to me. It was stolen in a burglary, and I haven’t had an air gun since. It has crossed my mind to get a modern air rifle. I’ve done a modicum of research only to learn there is a lot to learn!

22. For Christmas my parents got me the “joke” gift of the old Red Ryder BB gun like I had as a kid. Well, I’ve since transformed my garage into a little 10 yd shooting range! I’ve since added a Daisy CO2 pistol for drills and a Gamo Hornet 177 for marksman ship practice. With ammo and range fees (plus TIME), there’s nothing like squeezing off 200 Rds in the garage after the kids go to bed!

    • Yeah these powder only guy don’t get it. Nothing wrong with having an arsenal that includes a quality air rifle.

23. Going to get myself a Daisy Red Ryder, just because…

24. While I had a crappy Daisy, my buddy (who lived in a rural area near us) had an awesome “Benjamin” pellet gun. We used to roam the woods hunting water moccasins, birds, and squirrels all day long.

    I want a good air rifle like that, except my eyes pretty much demand optics now. From what I have heard, the modern Benjamin’s are just a shell of the old ones.

25. We love our Benjamin Marauder, and have enjoyed plenty of yummy rabbit stew thanks to it!

    http://www.apreppinghomestead.com/shhh-hunting-rabbits/

26. The Benjamin Sheridan model 392 (that’s the .22) has to be the most rounded shooter I have used. The fact you can variably change the FPS depending on target and range is killer, so to say. Will reach out with the best of them and it’s wood so it can take the brush and limbs that attack. Couple drops of silicone oil every now and then and your set.

27. the squirrels are mocking me.
    of all the crap in my attic to chew on they chose an antique tulipwood chair. instant vendetta.
    rws48 .22 w/ trs25 reddot knocks their dicks into the dirt.

28. i once finished a day of dove hunting by perforating butterfly wings of a swarm congregating on a flowering bush. they did not seem to notice, and all continued to flit about. dad bought me that crosman mkll in the ’70’s. i just got one for my kid.

29. beeman has the p3 made by weirauch in germany and sells it for hundreds.
    beeman sells the chinese version as the p17 for about thirty bucks. mine has held up for years. one pump pneumatic, for when you don’t want to pierce a whole co2 cartridge.
    a great inexpensive intro.
    dispatches chip- gophers with aplomb.

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