Whenever we post something about Springfield Armory (as we will later today), aggrieved members of TTAG’s Armed Intelligentsia swear a blood oath not to buy from the Illinois gunmaker. They’re pissed that the Illinois gunmaker paid-off anti-gun pols and engineered a carve-out on a dealer licensing scheme. But Springfield isn’t the only company on gun owners’ “no buy list” . . .
There are consumers who won’t buy from Ruger, harboring a grudge against the late Bill Ruger for selling out on the “assault weapon” ban.
There are gunnies who will never forget Smith & Wesson’s capitulation to the forces of gun control — including the addition of the so-called “Hillary hole” lock on Smith’s revolvers. Despite the fact that Smith’s British management are long gone.
And then there are manufacturers whose customer service — or lack thereof — has alienated potential buyers for life (cough Taurus cough). And gun makers whose quality control — or lack thereof — has alienated prior consumers (cough Charter Arms cough).
Who’s on your “no buy” list and how did they get there?
Given the previous comment threads. I think a shorter list is which companies are on your “Buy” list. It seems every gun company has POed some keyboard commando on the internet.
There is no mention of Rock River Arms in this article, they were also part of the cut out I believe with Springfield. Not sure
Yup. Same lobbyist, hired to represent both. But as you probably already know, unlike Ruger or S&W, there was no change in the law after the two manufacturers fired the lobbyist and dropped support for (or rather nonopposition to) the bill after the outcry. By contrast, 10 round mag limits are still the are among gun banners, and S&W still builds its revolvers with the Hillary hole.
Springfield still has the same guys running the company who made the decision to sell out; Smith has passed through at least two separate sets of hands since the MOA with the Clinton Administration and there’s almost certainly not a single person on the managerial level who is a holdover from that decision.
When Springfield fires a bunch of its decision makers over the business and goodwill it lost when it decided to kneel to the gun grabbers, I’ll buy their products again. Till then, I look forward to their bankruptcy and dissolution… just like Smith.
Kel Tec: they use red loctite to fix barrels to receivers.
Remington: google “rem 700 issues”. Enough said.
There might be a couple others, but those are the big two, and have had multiple problems with both.
I love how innovative KEL TEC is and for that reason I will continue to buy their reasonably priced products. Would I ever drop more then 500 on one of their firearms? Nope, I carried a pf9 as my second ccw with no issues( other then slide bite and horrendous muzzle flip). I have one of their sub 2ks that I picked up for a song( I was on the lgs waitlist so long I forgot I had money down, both KEL TEC and the store gave me a huge discount). I will support any company that brings innovation even if execution doesn’t quite match.
I had a Sub2K in 9mm Glock. That’s where I learned that the barrels are held in by essentially glue. That’s a problem. I kept having sight issues, it would cant. Then I realized it was the barrel.
If they could make a sub2k with a little more quality and thread or press the barrel in, I’d buy another one. I really liked it. A lot. So maybe I’m like that jaded boyfriend who got dumped.
Totally understand, I am keeping mine but I also plan to upgrade to one of rugers new pcc. As a lefty with the unique cheek weld you end up with a lot of powder residue in the face as well. I put a cheep Chinese red dot on mine it’s good to ~75 yards.
That unevenness in balancing quality, volume, and innovation has always been frustrating with Kel-Tec. It’s almost as though they would rather just design firearms than manufacture them.
If that’s the case, then maybe they should go all-in and modify their business model. They could design to their heart’s content, but subcontract actual production to a 3rd party.
They could maintain enough manufacturing capacity in-house so as to preserve their own production competency and to mitigate vulnerability to outside supply shocks. However, the bulk of production could be done by someone with world class proficiency.
Wasn’t the issue with the 700 shown to be caused by adjustment of the trigger by those not knowing what they were doing? I do remember the piece done, can’t recall what news agency did it, but I also recall that they issued a release stating that the cops in the video showing the rifles firing when moving the safety from safe to fire was because they had indeed adjusted the trigger settings. In addition, the woman that was shot “accidentally” by a family member (her husband I think?) was shown to be a fabrication by a reconstruction done by the local investigators. Again, this is me going from memory and I could be wrong. I think a better reason is the poor quality control Remington has and those awful-looking pistols they keep producing.
Entirely possible, I’m not 100% familiar with all of the complete shit storm behind the 700 series.
I do have experience with three 870’s that wouldn’t cycle, and sometimes wouldn’t fire. 5 years apart, over the span of a decade, and a 700 SPS that couldn’t extract half the ammo I out through it. The R51 debacle, the RP9 giant hunk of crap. Remington died along time ago, and so did the wallet for them.
Just my preference. I’m not saying not to buy them, I was an 870 guy for the longest time until I had all of those problems. Now, if asked, I say Mossy for shotguns.
Yep. I have to use a Rem. 870 at work, but at home my safe contains a Mossberg 590 and a 500 combo.
i’m one of the lucky ones. i have a p3at that is flawless. as long as you keep it clean it will go off. i know not everyone has that experience with kel-tec.
Honor Defense. Between the shoddy products I’ve seen on here, the drop safe fiasco and their abrasive customer service methods, I won’t give them my money.
If customer service is your problem, look up the company Robinson Armament, makers of the relatively unknown XCR rifle. They have some of the worst reviews out there in this regard, as well as the fact that the owner came out and said he would not service anybody who blasted their products online.
If you don’t believe me, just google “Robinson Arms customer service”
I’ve never had a prob with Rob arms. Xcr runs great, no issues, and truly modular. they have always been responsive to my questions by phone or email.. Maybe issues years ago, but not the issue now. Dont be so harsh on them. They have some good people working there now.
Cheaper than dirt, for the obvious. Taurus, the guns I’ve fired have been lacking.
I’ll take just about anything anyone wants to give me but I actively avoid buying anything Ruger, holed Smiths, won’t be buying anymore Springfields and I haven’t spent any money at CtD since 2011. As far as junk goes I avoid Charter, Taurus, Century builds, IO, etc… The regular offenders.
I would consider giving in to Springfield, maybe after some years go by, but CtD is the one place that I wouldn’t throw water on to save it from burning.
I agree with Shire-man.
As of 19:11 eastern standard (ironic) no one has seemed to mention Colt yet.
Is Colt still in business? Separate and apart from the fact that no Colt semiauto pistols are sold in California (victims of the microstamping law), Colt’s are not in my price range. Heck, even their 1873s start at $1500 and go up from there, and there is virtually nothing about that gun that has changed in the almost 150 years since the last major redesign. More if you consider that the basic firing mechanism (hand and spring, trigger, hammer sears, cam lock) hasn’t changed, except for the hammer, since the 1840s.
Good question. I heard they filed for bankruptcy (again) recently.
Remington quality control has gotten so bad that rifles are being sent out to stores with holes for scopes drilled crooked, barrels not installed correctly, short chambers, horrible machining gouges in the chambers, and low quality metal on the bolt. I won’t buy another Remington.
Makes me thankful to have a ’60’s-era 700 in my possession. They’ll never be that good again.
I worked at a gun shop in 2013, and we had to send back a Remington 700 that had a tap broken off in one of the scope mounting holes.
Cabot.
Because I work for a living and understand the value of money.
Frankly, if the price is right, there aren’t too many companies I’ll turn my nose up at – particularly for used guns. My thinking on used ones is, “they already made their money on it, buying it used won’t give them more.”
🤠
Amen to the used gun market!
Among the quality builders: Springfield Armory and Smith and Wesson (will not buy until they leave MA)
All the crappy builders: long list (we know who they are).
I would love to know what Redneck logic you’re using, that you won’t buy Smith & Wesson until they move their factory from Springfield, MA and leave a bunch of people jobless.
I suspect the logic is about not feeding money to states actively working against liberty via the business having to pay taxes to the state in which they operate. I do it too in some instances.
I guess perhaps you could consider it an additional step to the slogan “Buy American.”
Yes. I don’t support communist states like MA. Maura Healey is an evil cunt. NUMEROUS companies left slave states. There is no reason S and W can’t.
The fact that Massachusetts has a robust firearms manufacturing industry (S&W, Savage, Kahr) must stick in the craw of the liberals that run the state. If anything, that’s a reason to support those companies.
S&W leaving the state actually wouldn’t do much to the state’s coffers. The city of Springfield, however, would take a hit. An immediate 1.3% rise in unemployment, as well a loss in property tax revenue, is gonna hurt a city that, not gonna lie, is already kind of a dump. The state’s politician’s though, would certainly be willing to make that sacrifice.
To counter Mark’s point, MA is the home of some good gunmakers. I live about 90 min from Kahr/Auto Ordnance’s facilities in Worcester, and I made sure my first gun was a GI-style Auto Ordnance 1911A1 as part of a “buy local” mentality. I have not been dissapointed.
Every other gunmaker has left the region. New England was the gun making capital. Today? Ghost of the past.
Sig Sauer is still in New Hampshire but then again were not a slave state either!
Eh, New Hampshire is doing alright with SIG, Q, and Ruger
Huh? My Rugers say Prescott, AZ.
Sturm, Ruger & Co. is headquartered in Southport, Connecticut, and maintains manufacturing facilities in Newport, New Hampshire, Prescott, Arizona, and Mayodan, North Carolina.
S&W should invest all their effort into expansion of their Houlton Maine facility and make it possible for all the Mass employees to move there. Everyone will be better off for it, the employees receiving the better end of the deal for sure by getting to leave that shithole state.
Oh and my list includes Glock. I’d like to say it’s because Gaston is a grade A Hole but it’s really because the things are ugly as sin.
I don’t think Massachusetts would care much if Springfield Armory went under – considering they’re located in Geneseo, IL. LOL
I was solely referring to Smith for the MA comment.
Glock. Everytime I consider getting some of their bland perfection I end up with an HK, some surplus gun, hipower, something from other euro brands Walther, CZ, old Beretta, sub gun style etc. I’ve tried but just can’t do it. Still want a 1911 so just don’t think a Glock of gonna happen.
Yeah, I tend to avoid Glocks myself. In isolation they’re a perfectly serviceable weapon. But the ‘culture’ around them is loaded with insufferable man children that treat them like their god’s gift to gun owners. Not to mention the entire industry is always trying to Glock’s financial success, which in turn is quickly starting to cause the industry to stagnate. And let’s also not forget that a lot of these new striker fired DAO designs seem to have drop safe issues.
I would be one of those man child’s you speak of. I absolutely love the damn things. With that, I also understand that they’re are equivalent products on the market, and Glock is not the only thing.
As I get older, I find myself looking at Beretta 92 series, 1911’s, and other older model guns and revolvers. Maybe just growing out of my man child obsession with Polymer.
(None of this was written with any hostility, though it may appear so. All happy and joking thoughts)
I encounter far more Glock haters than I do so-called Glock fanboys. Meh. Haters gotta hate, I suppose, but must they be so vocal? I mean, at least the devotees are happy and friendly.
Are you in the San Antonio/Austin area? I need to reduce my supply of 1911’s.
2nd on Gluck. And Apple, near beer, training wheels
And Decaf coffee.
Are you in the San Antonio/Austin area? I need to reduce my supply of 1911’s.
Ummm…. I’m pretty close!
The only gun I don’t own that’s not a 1911 is my Glock 19.
Perfection.®
Anything related to “Freedom Group”. No matter what QC improvements they seem to have made, I can’t give any business to a company that did not value the safety of firearm design or overall lack of QC for as long as they did.
Unless you’re a cranky infant, the only guns that should be on a “No Buy” list are quality related.
A gun is a self-defense tool, and the most important feature of a high-quality self-defense tool is reliability.
If your gun jams in a crisis, or fires when it isn’t supposed to, the last thing you’ll be thinking of is the politics of a particular company.
That being said, if you really hate a company but like the gun: BUY USED.
When you buy new…you are a customer of that gun company. When you buy used…you are a customer of your LGS.
Springfield, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, etc. gets exactly zero dollars and zero cents when you buy used. Plus, you support your local store.
Not really true, secondary sale value effects initial price. I e Toyota has a higher resale value then Chrysler so Toyota can charge a little more on the front end. While not a huge deal with guns it’s still a thing. Also market saturation and market share also have net positive effects for companies. That being said I usually don’t be grudge a company too long if they change there course.
Not true.
Here’s how economics works.
When you buy used, you create a shortage of that particular item, then when someone else wants one and used ones are not found, they buy new.
Therefore, buying used just gives reason for people to buy new, and the cycle continues.
It doesn’t effect the market that much
That’s what Auction Arms, Gunbroker, Guns America, etc. are for. Unless you are looking for something exceptionally rare, there should be no reason to run out of sources for used firearms.
The market is diverse enough that you can avoid companies with policies you don’t like in favor of a gun of approximate value, quality, etc. easily enough.
In other words, one isn’t sacrificing much by not buying from Springfield or some other manufacturer.
It’s a good thing for this to happen to gun companies occasionally. Makes an example of them. Help keeps them in line, and reminds them where they’re loyalties lay. After what happened to Springfield, there won’t be another gun company to stab us in the back for quite some time.
Agree. Smith was just the first company lined up to sign the MOU with the Clinton Administration. The example made out of them helped insure that none of the others, even the ones with foreign ownership, signed on as well.
Every now and then you have to hang a shirker, pour encourageur les otres.
“Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.” …eh me boys! AArrgghh!
My “avoid” list is all either quality or price related, not political. I try to buy American, but that’s not always possible.
This, but I also won’t buy Glock, because I don’t like their grip angle, any gun that has bad reliability reviews, anything from Remington except ammunition, anything from Kel-Tec, or any of the crap manufacturers already mentioned like Cobra Charter HiPoint, etc. But it really isn’t an issue for me, since my “I want that” list of older guns is so long I don’t buy new ones much. I will admit that a Springfield M1911A1 with an arched mainspring housing is on that list, because I am afraid of the remaining quality of the very expensive originals. Century is a “do not buy,” no matter what they make, Turkish guns are off, as well as Chinese ones.
Bill Ruger is dead and Ruger is publicly traded.
Smith and Wesson was under British ownership at the time of the Clinton deal, and Tomkins plc lost $80m when it sold to Saf-T-Hammer and Bob Scott (who left S&W over Tomkins policies and actions)
Stay angry Bros!
Troy Industries, Springfield, Cheaper Than Dirt, Dicks, and a few local gun shops in MA like Northeast Traitors, The Gun Parlor, Yankee Artifacts/The Powderhorn, North Shore Firearms, and that POS Mike Weisser’s Ware Gun Shop.
You forgot Rock River Arms.
Nailed it. I don’t support folks that hire murderous government agents, price gouge to ridiculous levels, or actively cut deals with the enemy.
Ma is weird like that. You’d think with such a relatively small gun market, and a surprising amount of gun shops in the state, that there’d be the best salesmen in the world here. I’ve certainly met some of the best, but it’s definitely not the majority.
I would not trust a Kel Tec, or Taurus until I am convinced they have improved.
Taurus is the only real one I won’t consider ever again due to a single gun. Pt111. Wife biught it as a bedroom gun and you couldn’t hit the ground if you fired it straight up and waited. Never even bothered with it again, threw it in the bottom if the safe and she got a new gun.
I remember in the early 00s looking for a ccw on a budget. One of the display Taurus 85s cylinder clearly was Mia aligned. A second customer came in with a catastrophic fail on a judge(gun was cracked between handle and cylinder and barrel was heavily damaged) I bought a ruger instead.
I think Taurus has fixed some of its problems though.
Glock, I like having bullet free legs. The grip angle sucks as does their disturbing balance shift as the mag empties.
Walther has been very hit or miss.
I generally try to avoid brands known for quality or quality control issues. I took a gamble with a Taurus revolver, and have been very happy with it. But generally speaking, I avoid brands with spotty reputations.
If I had to single out on particular manufacturer, I’d say Cobra. Aside from making bottom-of-the-line weapons, they appear to have an atrocious reputation as a company. F-rating from the BBB, multiple nightmare customer service stories abound (including just not answering the phone in recent months) can be found on forums all over the net, and so on.
My list is fairly short, and in that regard, I’d buy their products, but I’d buy used.
Bill Ruger died and that era is gone I hope. I’ve seen no indication of the selling out and in fact they make many black rifles now. Springfield also made a mistake and sold out. I think many others have also made mistakes.
I also think that’s its just that a MISTAKE. Is it a pattern? Not that I see. I’ve made plenty of mistakes.
Now the NRA on the other hand sold us out in the 90s with the Brady Bill and knew they messed up and swore never to do it again but then turned around in a whole new generation and sold out on their initial statement regarding bumpfire stocks. Their spokesman also made some racist statements but “not as a representative” which really isn’t a working excuse to me. These issues are problematic and causing me to pull away once my term has run out. I’ll try and find a better 2A organization to spend my money on.
Remington has made some bad products with several items that they continue to ignore such as the 700 trigger misfires, bolt catch stoppers on other rifles, certain handguns etc. I’m doubtful of buying anything from them in the near future.
“racist” Oh my Martha. As meaningless and worn out whine as “metoo”, sexist, ______phobe and ______gist. Grow up.
Agreed. Now we’re not only judging quality, reliability, serviceability, accuracy etc etc but we’re also running around on behalf of the thought police ? Ridiculous.
Mossberg.
The M500 is trash. I don’t care if it’s reliable, it’s just poorly built.
Springfield.
My experience with Springfield is that they make good products, but they’re overpriced and under-performing. For instance, their Range Officer 1911s and the XD.
My 590A1 is fine and I’ve got nearly 2K shells through it since I bought it four years ago. Every mass produced product results in a few lemons. I’ve seen pisspoor quality control in a spare Mossberg barrel I bought. The sight looked like it had been hammered into the dovetail the wrong way. Still, that’s not indicative that the typical Mossberg shotgun is trash.
Yeah, that’s true. It just be a bad apple.
Remington, because the company doesn’t care a bit about the quality of its rifles or handguns. Amazingly, the Remington 870 remains a viable shotgun, but knowing Remington’s owners, it won’t be long until the most popular shotgun of all time is also a POS.
Companies that screw up politically deserve to be boycotted, which punishes them but also drives those companies to reform their wicked ways. It worked against S&W and Ruger, and it will also work against SA. However, it’s important to note that none of those companies produced consistently substandard products, unlike Remington, which produced a rifle that practically fired itself.
And let’s not forget that after Sandy Hook, Cerberus Capital (the owner of Remington) announced that it was selling Remington, Bushmaster etc. Talk about cutting and running.
Anything owned by Freedom Group. I haven’t seen enough evidence that they’ve resolved their QC issues.
Anything built by Century Arms International or I.O. Inc for their dangerously bad manufacturing practices, but I will buy their imports.
Springfield for being traitors and their general lack of touch with what the market demands.
Ruger and S&W have long since redeemed themselves. We boycott companies to get them to change whatever practices anger us. Continuing to boycott them after they’ve changed for the better is just petty.
I think you’d take in a Dakota Arms rifle – if one came your way at low price (which they won’t).
Remington & Marlin have been ruined by the Wall Street management types. Dakota, last I looked, has been pretty much left alone.
Cohen era SIGs.
Amen. No-buy for the quality control, run away screaming for the customer care.
The only thing that I absolutely refuse to buy regardless of price is a S&W with the locking hole. New or used, doesn’t matter, if it has the lock I won’t take it home. It’s just plain ugly.
Sig Sauer. 556 SWAT, 556XI, P226 were all trash. I’m not sure what I did to piss them off but they just do not want to ever give me a good product. I’ve given up and moved on to other brands. I’m not above saying its probably just me but I’ve had such a string of bad luck with them that I can’t anymore.
I will say they have good customer service.
I have had remarkably good and generous luck with Sig’s customer service. High marks. The guy I worked with also gave me his direct contact info for future use. No call center or email bin for me. :^)
I was gonna say the same thing- bought a 226 and 229 legion, and got a guys personal email and phone, and he answers all my questions promptly. Very professional guy. Probably the best CS I’ve never had to use. Kriss also has amazing service. Never had a bad experience yet…
Any chance you would care to share the Sig CS rep’s info? I am probably going to have to send one of their 1911s back and it would be nice to deal with someone competent.
High Point anything. Being a cheap bastard and bargain hunter, I lean towards HP every year or so.
Some guys here say they work…but…they are so F’in ugly and heavy, I just can’t bring myself to buy one. If someone offered me a used one at an uber low price…then we’ll talk.
Hi Points are OK for the price, but after repairing one I wasn’t impressed with the internal design, there were a lot of engineering flaws. But if they are all you can afford good enuff, just don’t drop them
They work. I’ve either gotten lucky with my used JCP 40, or they are good quality for the price. Sure it’s an ugly gun, but at the end of the day, it must work. Now, it does have some reliability issues, but those are minor and customer service is incredible, despite me not being the original owner. Would I get a better gun if I had the money? Sure. Until then, I’ll stick with hi-point.
Springfield and Rock River Arms-Illinois related. No “ring of fire” guns ever. No Hipoint pistols. No Keltec pistols. Both have good carbines…as far as others I’ve had 6 Taurii that ran great. They ain’t Glock you have to break them in. I’ve only been around this gun stuff for 7 years so I don’t care (at all!) what Ruger/S&W did years ago…
Ruger quality assurance has taken a huge hit, even their customer service representatives acknowledge it. No semi auto pistol or AR platform from them for me anymore, too many issues back to the factory. That said, I love my GP 100, and certainly plan on buying a 10-22 this year.
A blanket condemnation of any particular brand? Not so much. Active avoidance of certain product lines within those brands? Absolutely
Honestly theirs not many manufacturers I shy away from. Most of the BS aimed at companies that “backstabbed”, I usually slide water under the bridge once they get new leadership (ie Ruger), or just buy their products used usually (only new gun I’ve bought from S&W is a Shield, all the revolvers I could ever want from them I can just get used at a LGS). Only company I can say I steer entirely clear from in regards to new guns is Hi-Point (sorry, none of the carbines or pistols I’ve shot have lasted more than 500 rounds before something happens that requires me to start fixing parts in the gun to get running reliably again), Century Arms (don’t trust any of their new AK’s to last, courtesy of AKOU) and I usually stick to their imports, and that’s after I do some reviewing for any history of problems with the import I’m looking to buy) and IO Ordnance (same AK problem as CAI).
I got a wasr 10 a few years back, thing was put together by blind monkeys. That being said other then the trigger group failing thing has been reliable, even with mag wobble. I don’t think I would ever pay for a century gun but I got this one for super cheap.
I tend to avoid Turkish and Israeli made weapons, mostly because I don’t like their countries of origin very much. That said, if pressed, I’d buy an Israeli made weapon before a Turkish made weapon.
I just came across your post. Kinda mystifying.
So…. What about Israel don’t you like ? What other Israeli products will you not use? If you boycott anything made in or invented or developed in Israel you better not get sick and need a life saving drug ( ever) need a computer ( for anything ) or God Forbid Need surgery.
Turkey and Israel are polar opposites. One ( Israel) is a Modern , Innovative ETHICAL Western Democracy based on Judeo – Christian law and is a staunch ally of the US. The other ( Turkey ) Is a radical Moslem quasi dictatorship with a population that by and large hates our guts. Do you love the governments of China , Pakistan and Vietnam ? Do you shop at Walmart, Lowes, Home depot? Do you not buy clothing, shoes or school supplies?
None really for me if the price is right and I want it. My favorite, best shooting gun is an old Taurus 66. Chances are I’m buying used from a private seller anyway.
My only political one would be Troy because they have that murderer from Ruby Ridge on their payroll.
Springfield and Rock River can suck it but only because they aren’t even remotely innovative. Importing Croatian pistols and making the same old AR is hardly cutting edge and should be treated as such.
Troy. They make decent stuff but their disdain for American citizens is pretty stunning. Same with HS Precision.
Then again, some TTAG’ers don’t seem to give a rat’s rearend about such things.
so funny that forgiveness is the one virtue it seems almost all “christians” are missing these days.
in the words of a smart man ” i like christ. i dont like christians because they are not like christ”
If you are referring to Springfield – they are un-apologetic – they say they did nothing wrong.
Companies aren’t people – they have no individual personality.
I buy from Ruger because they changed their ways (after Bill’s Death) and offered guns we wanted and supported gun owners.
I don’t buy Marlin because their quality is poor at the moment. I think Taurus is poor quality.
I don’t buy Turkish guns because I don’t want to support a country that doesn’t like the US.
I can forgive a person for a mistake….even a company. But to overlook an entity that is working against you or that makes poor products is folly.
Has nothing to do with forgiveness.
No forgiveness without repentance.
You think everyone here is a Christian just because they support gun rights? Racist.
My wife says I can’t buy a Krieghoff, Perazzi or Caesar Guerini.
Sux 2B me!
Also won’t buy another Stevens shotgun. Turkey might grow wonderful walnut trees but they can’t make a firing pin that lasts 2,000 rounds.
Turkish guns do have steel problems.
Everyone thinks that pale males made the production of steel look easy. Hint: It ain’t as easy as it looks.
Out of the three your wife won’t allow you to buy: I think the Caesars are the best bang:buck (pardon the pun), FWIW. If my opinion helps sway your management to allow the purchase, I’m happy to help. 😉
I don’t personally buy many new firearms. I think the last new production firearm I purchased was a Glock 36, and that was in, oh, 2011? Since then, out of everything I’ve purchased, think the newest firearm I’ve purchased was made in 1940, and old Mauser that was bubba-fied by someone doing a bogus sporterization, which I shall rescue from a future as a bubba-fied rifle. Aside from that, I think I got a 1903A3 from 1944 in a swap, a Sharps from 1872 or so, some older shotguns (ie, pre-WWI).
What I see of the quality of modern firearms that come through my shop, however, leaves me wholly unimpressed. That’s not news to regular readers here. But it is my ability to see the quality in modern firearms that other people bring me that informs my buying decisions to buy older, quality firearm instead of new firearms.
Let’s say a newer gun owner asked you advice for a carry gun, something with modern features (rail, night sights, etc) and easily-found spare parts/accessories (mags, holsters). They would prefer it be in an easy-recoiling platform, good selection of self defense loads, and concealable. They may use this as their nightstand or vehicle gun as well, since they don’t want to buy 3 guns without first gaining experience with the first. What would you recommend?
I’d say we should go to a range where they rent lots of handguns, so they could try them out.
Ideally, handguns are a very “personal fit” issue – as much or more than shotguns. This is part of why so many of these modern pistols are now coming with grip pieces you can change – to change the feel/size/shape of the grip. When the gun “fits” you and your hand properly, you’d be amazed at how easily you can make a ‘snap shot’ on a B-27 target and drive them all to center-of-mass right from the draw without even having to line up the sights.
Those of us who are used to shooting revolvers on a regular basis have known forever what changing the grips can do for your ability to hit the target for years – and for years, the aftermarket has provided a good selection of aftermarket grips to fit your hands better.
The polymer semi-autos didn’t have the ability to change the grips until recently, and telling someone to “check out XYZ” pistol could be an expensive proposition.
It used to be that most of the striker-fired polymer pistols had really poor triggers – now they’re getting better. There’s another aspect that someone has to “feel” and experience to decide “which gun is right for me?”
In pistols such as what you’re calling out, there’s very little that I can do as a gunsmith to help the customer like the gun more. In the past, with 1911’s, Hi Powers, revolvers, etc – we gunsmiths could do quite a bit with respect to grips, triggers, etc. In the modern polymer pistols, many of those options are gone. That’s why I recommend to customers that we go look at the pistols, and at least fit them to their hand, and better yet, fire them. I don’t care if they go with me to a range,, or they go with a competent handgun instructor.
That’s all we can do when we’re trying to reduce the number of handguns down to “one.”
Agree on all, and that is the essence of my advice to newer shooters. I should have been more clear in my question: in light of all the “junk” available today, very little of it manufactured with the quality of materials nor attention to detail provided with hand-fitted parts of yesteryear, what pistols available today would you recommend?
As of right now, Springfield Armory and EOTech/L3 Technologies.
Rossi is permanently on my “No Buy” list due to a horrible experience I had with them, not only dismal quality control (a dangerously unsafe gun) but terrible customer service, refusing to honor their warranty on their dangerously defective product!
I bought a Rossi Circuit Judge Rimfire at Dick’s Sporting Goods, and it was unbelievably defective. It’s a revolver-rifle, so you’d think it would at least be reliable, right? Wrong. It came with two cylinders, .22 LR and .22 Magnum. Both cylinders jammed 50% of the time, and the other 50% of the time required two hands and about 50 pounds of force to fire in double-action mode, and was impossible to fire in single-action mode. But that was just the beginning of the problems. Frequently when shooting the 22 LR cylinder, and EVERY TIME I pulled the trigger with the 22 Magnum cylinder, I was hit in the face with hot gas, gunpowder, and probably lead fragments, because the cylinder didn’t line up with the forcing cone correctly on either cylinder, especially the 22 Magnum. Of course I was wearing shooting glasses (otherwise the gun would’ve rendered me blind), but it was still painful getting hit in the face with hot gas, powder, and/or lead fragments whenever I pulled the trigger! As if that weren’t enough, the gun was inaccurate, the plastic sights wobbled, I think the barrel was loose too, and a bunch of other problems. I wrote to Rossi, listed about a dozen problems with the gun including the fact that the gun was unsafe (burning my face every time I pulled the trigger), told them I’d owned toy cap guns with better quality, and asked for a repair, refund, or replacement. Maybe my comment about “cap guns” made them take offense, but they REFUSED to honor the warranty, REFUSING to repair, refund, or replace the dangerously defective gun! Dick’s Sporting Goods heard my story and took pity on me, giving me a full refund out of their own pocket, and I gladly gave the gun back to the store, warning them it was unsafe to fire.
So, terrible customer service, awful quality control, and dangerously unsafe guns — those are the THREE reasons Rossi is permanently on my NO BUY list!
Sigh…. I can’t say how I really feel. Let’s just say gun owners are worst than Goldilocks in evaluation of quality. Cheaper than dirt on spending. And hold grudges like Hatfields.
I have a beautiful wife and beautiful children which I drive down my beautiful street in my beautiful car to my beautiful home. Why then, would I settle for ugly firearms? For the love of aesthetics, Glock and Kel-Tec are off the table for me.
P.S.: Glock gets an extra strike against them for reasons mentioned by Dog of War, above. The culture surrounding them is abhorrent. Glocktards make us all look bad. I’m surprised each Glock doesn’t come with a free Tapout T-shirt (size small only) and some sort of voucher for a tribal tattoo.
Sounds like you place way too much value on aesthetics.
It’s his money. If he wants nice looking guns, it’s his business.
Hi-Point.
I don’t need a handgun with a slide that weighs as much as some other entire handguns… and HAS to.
There’s a reason why there have been almost no commercially successful full power blowback handguns.
You’re correct – there’s only two ways to hold the action closed on a straight blowback action: make the spring stronger, or the slide more massive.
Now, let’s qualify things here: Everyone’s idea of a “massive slide” immediately brings to mind a High Point, and their massive, chunky slides. But they need not be that large. The reason why the HP’s slides are so large is that they’re making most everything on the gun (aside from the barrels, springs, firing pin/striker, etc) out of Zamak-3, a zinc-based alloy used in die casting many auto parts. That’s where High Point’s background is – in casting auto parts.
Well, if you made a straight blowback with a slide made from steel, with an insert for mass made of lead that’s cast (ie, poured as molten) into a recess in the slide, you could make the slide much smaller, slimmer, etc, and you could have a “full power” pistol with a recoil spring that you could get open without forearms like Popeye. The firearm would have some weight to it, and perhaps some balance issues (I’d try to get the cast weight to be at least partially forward of the chamber), but it could be made to work.
Chinn in “The Machine Gun” discounts the efficacy of a heavy recoil spring, lending far more “weight” to the inertia of the mass in the breach mechanism.
Unlocked breech full power handguns are like evaporative cooling systems in the wing surfaces of piston engine fighter planes. The idea kept coming up, but it always turned out to be way too much effort for far too little return.
It is, and that’s why we see all manner of mechanisms (esp. recoil) to retard the rearward movement of the slide and keep the breech locked.
The one big advantage that a straight blowback pistol has is that the barrel can be absolutely fixed on the lower frame, and this can make for a very accurate pistol. This is why most (I don’t know if it is all, but I’m only hedging my bets here – I know of no exceptions) .22LR target pistols have a fixed barrel and a slide or bolt that blows back under spring pressure.
Once you start moving the barrel about, you need clearances for it to move, and this starts to cost you.
I buy used from any brand if it’s cheap enuff. New production guns are so cut corner innovative they’ve turned into junk. Quality cost money, do I want a junk firearm, or no firearm at all?
I buy what I want from who I want.
Cheaper Than Dirt
Springfield
Kel-Tec
anything Freedom Group
Any 9mm Glock, just because Glock fans are irritating, and I don’t want to be associated with them. I would buy Glocks in other calibers because the worst Glock fans are 9mm evangelists.
I’m OK with the Taurus brand, but their Rossi brand of revolvers is suspect. Out of six rounds in the cylinder, regardless of brand of ammunition, at least one will light strike. Maybe that’s just a simple adjustment, but it shouldn’t have to be anything.
I stay away from all things Remington, not because I’ve ever had problems with them, but because of what I’ve read in here. I’m OK with Ruger. The “assault weapons” ban expired 14 years ago. Bill Ruger himself expired 16 years ago. It’s ancient history; the hate slate is clean. Same with S&W, though I happen not to own anything of theirs at present.
I do dislike Henry firearms, though, because they lie. They claim their .357 lever rifle can accommodate .38 special rounds. It can’t, at least not any beyond the first round. The casing jams up the action and prevents both ejection of the spent casing and chambering of the next cartridge.
Maybe it’s my own fault for trusting them. After all, they do concede that their rifle has exactly standards. Thus, you must not use any non-brass cased cartridges. Neither may you use any .357 rounds in weight other than 158 grain.
With those restrictions, I should have known that the shorter length .38SPL rounds would cause problems, despite Henry saying they were fine. Next time around, I’m going with the Ruger 77/357 bolt action rifle, instead.
May have just had a lemon or short loads. My Henry Big Boy Steel ran pretty well with 38 specials, not perfectly but that was expected. I found that working the lever with authority helped with reliability.
Did you just assume I’m limp levering?
All the same reasons I gave up on .357 lever guns and went to the Ruger 77/357; this thing will feed, fire any 38 or 357 without protest.
I used to own a Ruger 77/357 that refused to feed any type of ammo! I tried several different brands and weights, including .38 special and .357 Magnum, even the .357 Leverevolution rounds that everyone says it works great with, nothing would feed! So I returned it for warranty repair, and apparently this brand-new rifle had a broken extractor, straight out of the box!
Ruger fixed it free, but it still had another problem: it requires special Ruger scope rings, and the “medium” scope rings it shipped with were so low that a 3-9 x 50 scope was scratching against the rear sight, even with the rear sight folded down.
By then I’d soured on the rifle so much, due to all the feeding problems I’d had (due to the broken extractor that it shipped with) that I decided to sell it. Bad decision, because now I regret selling it!
For political reasons? I guess Lon Horiuchi’s association with HS Precision and Troy Industries hurts them in my mind, but I wasn’t going to buy anything from HS Precision anyway and Troy Industries in the AR-market competes with companies that I think offer better value and/or more options. It’s the same with RRA and SA. Yeah, I’m not happy with about their political shenanigans, but neither really make anything that I want.
I won’t buy Smith and Wesson anymore. IMHO, their quality has gone down while their prices have gone up.
I’ll add another name into the fire; Chiappa guns Any gun with an imbedded tracking chip is not one I would buy. Add in the dubious quality issues and they are on my shit list, along with S.A. and RRA
Plenty of good companies exist, why waste money on junk?
On the subject of Turkish firearms, I do trust the shotguns from Weatherby and Winchester much more than the private label Turkish ones. I own pump guns from W and W also, they are good quality and without issues. Overall, I would prefer American made, but I cannot tolerate that Freedom Arms stuff, even the new 870s are of questionable quality with extraction issues and breakage. I pass on the Mossberg just because I am done playing with rattles. Just an OFWG opinion, your mileage may vary
Freedom Group, Springfield, Rock River, and S&W Revolvers with hole.
There are others I won’t buy from simply because of bad value (Colt), but would be willing to give a chance if they turned it around.
Springfield Political backstabbers.
Rock River they were never really an option before the Illinois fiasco I just don’t like their guns.
Charter Crappy guns.
Kimber Worked on way too many of their guns to pay the price their asking.
Inter Ordnance looked at one of their AKs in a LGS saw metal everywhere in the gun put it right back on the rack and grabbed a Century.
Honor Defense owner is a massive douche bag.
Bersa Ever since the frame crack fiasco I haven’t been able to trust them.
Mossbergs other than 500 – I own one and will never buy another also why is it every single time I see one of their bolt guns on Noir or some review show it looks like the bolt sticks horribly?
Remington too many quality issues.
Glock sorry but until they get their pricing under control and we can rationally discuss them they’re a NOGO for this guy. $567.79 for a bone stock used Gen 3 in a pawn shop? lil over 6 bills for a new one? no thanks there are too many options that are too close to their record to justify the price difference.
Sounds more like a bad pawn shop than Glocks fault. Gen 4’s have gone down in price from some dealers since the Gen 5’s came out, and Grabagun has some new Gen 3’s for under 500. 9mm Glocks are hands down the most popular side arm in America though so resale value stays pretty high on them.
Bud’s!!! I bought an FNX and their website wasn’t working properly (they said) charged my account 4 times (over $2K) and then took almost a month to get my money returned to my account. Their upcharge for use of a credit or debit card is a ripoff as is their additional warranty. When they shipped the gun to their suggested FFL dealer in my town they put no information in the shipment that indicated who the buyer was. When I called the FFL dealer to ask if he’d received the gun he said “I’m glad you called because we were wondering who it was for as he hadn’t ordered it.” Never again.
That would suck, but Ive ordered dozens of guns from buds over the years with very few issues. Just ordered my first gun from Grabagun however and was surprised to get a call from my LGS that my gun had been delivered, Grabagun never updated the tracking on it.
Springfield/RR for the carveout, Kimber because the quality control is terrible and HK because of past customer service experiences.
I can’t be that picky since the California DOJ already took most of the good handguns off my list.
glock, because its glock. I carry springfield armory pistols daily, collect ruger blackhawks both old and new, only Smith I’ve ever really been semi interested in is a 500mag, and I believe there are lemons with every company. Phoenix arms and glock are my no-goes, had a Phoenix arms .22 pretty much fall apart (painfully) in my hand, just don’t like anything about glocks.
What’s the issue with Cheaper Than Dirt?
I may not have this one hundred percent right, but IIRC, the controversy surrounding CtD stems from their behavior after Sandy Hook. They abruptly canceled a lot of AR-15 orders, even those that had already been processed, and were ready to ship. They then dramatically increased the prices of those same items overnight.
As best as I can remember, anyway.
The Rookie pretty much nailed it. I won’t fault people for raising prices in response to high demand and scream that they are price gouging. I’m a capitalist and will let the market determine something’s worth. What I won’t tolerate, and why CtD is dead to me, is the dishonest business of cancelling already placed and paid for orders so they can repost the product at a higher price. Also they immediately pulled all firearms from their site and had a huge notice that read “Cheaper than Dirt does not sell firearms.” They are dishonest and backstabbers. Not the kind of business I will associate with.
I hate Weatherby with a passion. I read an article and Roys son or grandson, whoever runs it, says he would move from Commyfornia but the employees keep them there. I know factories that pay to movie families half way across the county. My wife’s friend had to move to South Carolina from Arkansas or loose his job. Your paying the people that hate you with tax money. Move to gun friendly southern states. Weatherby rifles are fine rifles, I use to have one but not anymore. Springfield, Rock Island, Kimber, etc, they’re all hipocrites. The only quality issues I’ve had are with a 709 Taurus, the front sight never would stay set, and a Glock 22 went through 3 extractors in 6-8 weeks. 3 strikes and your out. I don’t like Remington but I don’t know why, maybe just a Winchester guy?
Guns made in any country with a government already more oppressive than ours.
I’m definitely not a Glock guy (no offense to aficionados) but that said, a lot of so call “made in Germany” or even USA are assembly there from parts made in other countries like Philippines, Turkey or China… Hard to find but very true
I buy Stag Arms, Ruger, H&K, Walther, Glock, Kel-Tec, NAA, Rossi lever guns and own a few OLD Smiths…don’t plan on wandering too far outside of those brands.
No Hi-Point, Charter arms,Honor Defense, Taurus, Springfield, RRA, new Smith & Wesson (until the Hillary hole goes away) or Chiappa for this guy.
H&K, because they hate us civilians and don’t even bother to email me or tell me in person they hate me…..
But good lord are they great guns….who am I kidding I’ll buy more I can’t stay made at you H&K, please make me a single stack 9mm and I’ll love you long time!
I will not buy the Illi-noise 2A sell outs, Honor Defense after almost buying one today and then reading through here that they knew they had safety issues and not to mention the CEO is a tool in his comments on these blogs (veteran status only gets you so far, especially with other vets dingus), I won’t buy from countries where I can’t drink the water either so South America can suck it.
I guess I don’t have a no-go list of gun companies. What I am sick of is the raging shit storm of 1911 knockoffs, AK/AR clones, and polymer striker fired pistols. I walk through a gun show and that’s 90% of what I see. Jeez, people. Enough already! Learn to think outside the box.
A lot of companies have made dumb moves which didn’t improve their image. I’m thinking of Colt dropping their revolvers and relying on military contracts (which then dried up). And HK flubbing a good following in the US by not courting the civilian market.
A lot of different firearms have run, walked and strolled through my safe. Some stayed around for a while, and some have been in there for 40 years. I like good equipment; stuff that works, and I’m always looking for something better to fill a niche.
In 2015 I identified a new niche, long range rifle, and filled it with a TRG-42. And last year the Sig Sauer MPX-9C filled the camp carbine niche previously held by an Uzi carbine. But after all these years of fiddling with guns that sort of thing doesn’t happen very often.
“…the raging shit storm of 1911 knockoffs, AK/AR clones, and polymer striker fired pistols. I walk through a gun show and that’s 90% of what I see. Jeez, people. Enough already! Learn to think outside the box.”
Yeah, why the hell would these for-profit manufacturers keep right on making and selling the most popular firearms the world has ever seen? To give people exactly what they’re asking for, maybe? What are they thinking? Morons…
There are plenty of manufacturers who build niche firearms for those who want (and can afford) to buy them. Perfect example: I’ve never even heard of a TRG-42; couldn’t tell you who makes them or even the country of origin, because I’m just not into long-range rifle shooting.
But there’s no reason to denigrate the volume makers for filling a demand. You don’t like the products they sell? Not innovative enough for you? Then go buy from a custom maker who will build whatever your heart desires.
There’s room for both types of manufacturers in the world, IMO. Vote with your wallet and buy what you like… but don’t slam them for building millions of examples of guns that other people like!
You never heard of the TRG-42? I did give you a couple of hints. lol
Didn’t see this the past couple days. Like I said, I’m just not into LR rifle shooting. (Of course I looked it up after making that comment, so now I know what they are.)
I mean, if I were to tell you I play an SR400EQM, would you be able to tell me who makes it? LOL If you’re not into bass guitar, you wouldn’t have a clue, right? Same here – but now I know yours is a Sako!
Troy, SA, and RRA for political/ethical reasons. Only SA manufactures products that actually interest me out of those, all of which are available from other manufacturers, so that’s no big deal.
Century Arms, IO, Remington brands (Remington, Marlin, DPMS, Bushamster) due to abominably bad quality control. It’s a shame, because I love Marlin leverguns. I just buy used, pre-safety rifles.
Anything manufactured in Turkey, Pakistan, or western Europe, because I’d rather not support tyrannical governments any more than I already do by paying taxes.
There are others like Taurus, Kel-Tec, Charter Arms, and Hi-Point that manufacture mediocre to bad firearms, but haven’t sold out gun owners or destroyed long-running names like Marlin and H&R. I avoid these, but don’t hate the companies.
“There are gunnies who will never forget Smith & Wesson’s capitulation to the forces of gun control — including the addition of the so-called “Hillary hole” lock on Smith’s revolvers. Despite the fact that Smith’s British management are long gone.”
Then why don’t they alter their machining to eliminate the “Hillary hole”?
Almost certainly, it’s because they have attorneys.
Attorneys, you see, get paid large amounts of money to foresee the unforeseeable and think the unthinkable that other attorneys, who get paid large amounts of money, might foresee or think.
Here’s how it works: S&W modifies their entire line of ‘old’ revolvers with ‘Enhanced Safety For The Children,’ revolvers that can be locked by Responsible Adults with a virtually infallible KEY LOCK, a KEY LOCK that prevents The Children, or others equally child-like such as Legislators, from inadvertently firing said revolver. Legislators and other attorneys see that this is Good, and commend S&W (or at least don’t try to sue them out of existence by product-liability claims, or to legislate them out of existence with Draconian new pogroms).
S&W finds out that, as time passes, nobody really wants their key-locked revolvers, and asks their attorneys if they can remove the locks, or offer the option of not having the lock in the first place.
“NO!” shout their attorneys with one great voice! “You’d be removing an intrinsic ‘safety’ device, rendering your guns less ‘safe,’ and Think of The Children! The very first incident wherein a now-‘keyless’ revolver is used to shoot someone inadvertently, or even advertently, it will be claimed that YOU willingly and knowingly and with reckless disregard for All That Is Right And Holy removed, I say REMOVED!! an obvious Safety Device from your gun, you vile thing you! Once you decided that your ‘safetyless’ revolvers were not safe enough, although you’d built them that way for a century, and installed a KEY LOCK, you admitted to all and sundry that YOUR GUNS WERE UNSAFE WITHOUT THAT LOCK. If you REMOVE that lock, you’re going back to building those OLD, UNSAFE GUNS that Kill Children (and Minorities. Don’t forget about the Minorities). This, you cannot DO! Your liability would be TreMENDous. The Lock Stays. We have spoken.”
And that, sir, is why there are Hillary Holes to this Very Day.
Taurus, Kel-Tec, Sccy, Jennings, Remington, Cobra, etc. Way too many quality gun makers to buy substandard guns with QC and design issues. Glock, because they have *awful* ergos and have not really improved since the 1980’s. Springfield Armory, not interested in rebranded guns at 3x the price. H&K, because I am an American and I push buttons to eject magazines. Canik, because I don’t trust that my money won’t end up somewhere I would not want it. Bersa, because I don’t want to get a second job so I can buy more magazines.
Springfield and rock river. Sellouts.
Remington. Quality issues.
Barrett. Cant afford them.
No more Korth-Waffen for this 1%er. When the little people on the telephone told me I cannot get whale penis foreskin covered grips and a baby seal skin case, I’m taking my business elsewhere. And who said my warranty was void if I kept letting my Czech supermodel girlfriend clean the bore and cylinders with Dom Pérignon, how declassse.
Also Lorcin, cut my hand on a slide.
I stay away from Springfield and Rock River. I would buy a Ruger now that Billy is gone, I’ve bought S&W’s after they got rid of the french, the trigger lock doesn’t bother me .
Colt is bringing the New Frontier back and I’ll probably get one.
Anything made by I.O. aka Interordnance; their stuff is shit, their customer service is horrible and their owner touts his products on forums under pseudonyms…I have a I.O. Hellcat .380 a true POS aka paperweight. Taurus, I liked my 24/7 OSS Tactical in .45; I sent it back for the evaluation and extended warranty, that was in Oct of 2017. Their CS is a joke and rumor has it all guns sent in are being replaced with a 9mm PT111 G2 in brown… RRA and SA for their implication in Illinois carve-out and Honor Defense because they copied the mechanism of the P320 and just don’t give a shit about making it drop safe.
Read AKForum before buying from IO or Century Arms
Politically? I won’t buy Springfield Armory or Rock River Arms. Smith and Ruger paid the price and made amends.
Quality wise? I won’t buy Taurus, as I’ve read too many stories of poor quality control combined with poor customer service. No SCCY, as I hate their triggers and quality is suspect(though CS is exemplary,I understand). No Honor Defense. No Century AKs.
I stick to quality manufacturers who, to my knowledge, haven’t screwed the customer. Glock, Kahr, Bushmaster, HK(I know they hate us but damn their quality is high).
Here’s one I haven’t seen really mentioned, but Diamondback. After purchasing a DB9 FS online brand new, receiving it with no rifling in the barrel (just a smooth tube), sending it back and waiting 3 months only to receive it back just to give me light strikes consistently… I got rid of it. Would’ve been a nice feeling and shooting budget gun… If it wasn’t a pile of junk.
For those companies that have made political errors in judgment: Ruger, S&W, Springfield, RRA, etc., it’s all a question of how much “penance” you believe they need to do. S&W paid the price years ago and the tarnish on Bill Ruger’s legacy remains, but current management there gets it. I don’t think anyone should decline to buy either brand so long as they fit your price range, features, etc.
Jury is still out on Springfield and RRA. They did an about face and did the right thing, but Springfield handled that as poorly as you could have done. Either they didn’t think word of their support would get out or they should have been minding the store a lot better. If the former, shame on them and if it’s the latter, shame on them. For my nickel, Springfield is still on The List. As for RRA, they don’t sell anything that floats my boat.
As for quality issues, it’s like anything else you buy. You pay your money and you take your chances. I’ve seen Ruger revolvers with the front sight at the 11:00 O’Clock position, had a Springfield with a crap extractor and S&W recalled. I’ve had Rossi and Taurus pistols that ran flawlessly too, but the level of internal polish on them was much less than Ruger, Springfield, etc. Go figure.
Glock is not a consideration for me. Despite the multiple generations of marginal improvements, there’s better value in striker fired pistols of similar designs. Price a Gen 4 Model 19 vs. the M&P Compact 2.0 and shoot both of them. Is the Glock worth $80 more? ($499 vs. $419 in my LGS’ Sale Flyer). Not to me, but it’s your money.
Springfield Armory and RRA..! They screwed over the customer base and will never recover in my eyes nor will their products grace my shops shelves!
Has anyone mentioned Marlin .30-30 Lever Action. ..Or did I miss something?
Sweetest rifle I’ve ever owned and I own several Marlins.
Comments please.
I must be blessed because I have a 1 year old Rem 700 Magpul (with upgrades)that is a tack driving certainty and dependable as a rock. I am disappointed in Springfield after decades of being a fan, but I will not give up my XD MOD2 .45 for anything. Been my constant companion for 3 years and I trust my life to it. On the good side I also trust Daniel Defense, Sig, and Rock Island Armory (…and here come the haters), all of which I own. RIA makes some great 1911s and their customer service is impeccable! Never had any problems with Ruger either, I have a Blackhawk, a Redhawk and a Ruger American rifle as well as my wife Ruger American compact in 9mm. Like I said they’ve been good to us.
H-S Precision. Their use of Lon Horiuchi in the early 2000’s as a company spokesman was horrendous. For those of you who don’t remember, Horiuchi was the FBI sniper at Ruby Ridge who murdered Vicki Weaver as she held her child.
Waiting to go out of business:
Colt
Remington
RRA
Kel-Tec
H&K
Irritated with past shenanigans and not buying until they make me happy:
Springfield
Smith
Ruger
Sick of a lot of the people who buy them:
Glock
H&K
Kel-Tec
Well, it’s a start.
What is wrong with HK? Can’t afford, get new job or go to college!
Springfield Armory, and anything from the Freedom Group.
Taurus….this fiasco with the recall, and how they are hosing everyone for the replacement
pistols is terrible. They released an AR platform that equals the bottom end of the market at Colt prices. And if it is not bad enough, pull the trigger on the new Spectrum. You will then pull the handle and flush.
Marlin /Remington…they might as well send a pre-paid shipping label for repair with all the Marlins. Until they put some quality back in their products, I’m staying away. (Customer service seems to do good, but I believe they are buried in defective product)
None really if they produce a quality firearm that is reliable and inside the price range.
I recently bought a Taurus TCP then swapped for a Ruger LCP II I wanted to retire that old Galesi-Brescia Inherited from my Aunt as a CCW. I owned or have owned Smith’s, Colts according to the sale price or my desire to have it. I don’t hold it against S&W or Ruger their politics I do wish Colt would fix their business as There are Colts I would like to own if they were cheaper.
I believe we all know what guns are crap and do not buy them.
Now the Taurus TCP I swapped for the Ruger worked great, accurate reliable once I dumped the made in Brazil magazine for one made in USA. I’d buy another for the right price.
Gun Mfgrs On My Shitlist:
*Springfield – the day it was reported here on TTAG about their backstabbery, I took my 9mm XDS to my local gun shop and sold it on consignment.
*Remington – One word. 700.
*Ruger – not so much Ruger’s fault but a pushy, opinionated salesman at Arms Merchant in Mandeville LA insisted I should buy an over-priced Ruger AR-15 from him instead of a “piece of shit” S&W M&P Sport II. Turns out he had only the Ruger in stock and wanted a quick sale, not the right sale. Meanwhile, a friend has both the AR556 and the Sport II – he much prefers the Sport II over the Ruger.
*Taurus – I bought their clone of the Beretta 9mm. It was so shitty that I sold it.
*Beretta – I bought a .22LR semi-auto handgun. Fucking piece of shit wouldn’t fire properly. I had to pull the trigger three to four times per round fired.
I don’t buy anything from Century Arms and IO both are selling garbage/quality less firearms. I buy Springfield 1911 because they are affordable and good. Smith and Ruger …not sure.
Kel-tec, because an unreliable carry gun isn’t worth carrying.
Jennings, Bryco, Jimenez, Phoenix, whatever it’s called, because I got two of them. Neither would work right.
That’s about it. I am pretty open minded and forgiving. With exceptions, of course.
Springfield Armory.
Longtime SA customer, now stuck with 1911s that they can no longer modify because they closed their true custom shop to work on crappy overpriced 1911s. I want my gun the way I want it. If SA thinks they can charge me $2k+ for a 1911, they’re smoking dope. If i’m dropping that much money on a 1911, it will be with WC, NH, LB, or Guncrafter.
Throw in the IL FFL exemption BS, and they made it on my Sh*tlist forever.
aAdealer had 13 1911’s come thru the door with problems that ranged from serious to dangerous.
Recall especially the $1300 LW compact that had the ambi safety walk out of the frame in less than a box of federal ball. 8 of the extractors were defective from NIB. one gun, a fixed sight mil spec lasted 1 round (went in the ‘x’ on the target) looked for 3 months for a real extractor. None were to be had anywhere. I sold it for a loss and bought an H&K USPC in 45 acp. Have had zero problems in the 10 years i’ve had it. No more 1911’s for me.
Every factory made gun maker that is made in USA has really disappointed me with there quality control and their repair jobs. I quit buying made in USA firearms they all had issues brand new out of the box. Their repair work was even as bad or worse . Guns made in germany, Japan all worked good for me no issues and shoot good.
Comments are closed.