Boston manhunt (courtesy msn.com)

Cruising through New Jersey’s unconstitutional firearms laws I happened upon N.J.A.C. 13:54-6.7. That would be “Regulations during a civil disturbance or declared emergency period. (a) In the interest of the public health, safety and welfare, firearms dealers shall discontinue the sale of firearms and ammunition upon notification by the Superintendent or the chief of police of the municipality where the firearms dealers’ business is located, that a civil disturbance or other emergency exists.” I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea of the Jersey po-po deciding when and whether a gun dealer can deal when the deal goes down. I mean “if.” If the deal goes down. But what if Boston’s “shelter in place” post-bombing boondoggle is a taste of things to come? What would you do about/with your guns—if they hadn’t all been lost in a boating accident.

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127 COMMENTS

  1. Just alter the color of those uniforms a bit and they look just like the Nazi Storm Troopers.

    • Yes, but…at least they are wearing standard police type uniforms under all that gear, not decked out like some pseudo-military occupation forces. Police militarization sucks, but at least you know these guys are still police. (Until the MRAP with the .50 cal turret comes down the street behind them for support.)

      • And they and their families would all be living in the same community they’re trying to repress, rather than in a barracks removed from the population.

        • If state or federal government felt it was becoming a security issue, they would be housed in compounds. I would speculate likewise for their immediate family members if it were deemed necessary. Judicial compounds…

    • That’s the biggest clusterf*ck of a formation that I’ve ever seen. The Hajis would eat these clowns for lunch. All I see is a target rich environment. A 3-4 man team from ambush would able to waste the entire group.

      • I want to know why the dude in the front is sporting NVGs… in the middle of the day. I guess it’s just cool to do that.

        • Meh, maybe the goggles are for searching dark houses for dogs or something. Interesting that their uniforms are equipped with the much hated dick flap though.

        • Maybe THEY should remember than next time they want to get mall ninja gear on the taxpayer’s dime.

        • +1. I’m the military and I’d just like to point out that no one I know particularly appreciates the police trying to act like they know what to do with all that tacti-kool bullshit they’re strapped out with. I mean if you’re going to walk around strapped you should at least have a clearing barrel amiright?

          You know what? Here’s an idea, because we’re all on board with increased safety right? If the government elects to continue allowing it’s law enforcement officials to be armed with firearms then goddamnit they’re going to give them clearing barrels too! I’d pay a tax hike if every one of those well-meaning fuck-ups in that picture had to dry fire his rifle, pistol and shotgun into a barrel of sand every damn time he wanted to enter the station house.

          • ” I’m the military”

            Just out of curiosity, are you an Oath Keeper? I’ve heard that Our Glorious Beloved Infallible Commissar has just recently had a big Oath Keeper purge in preparation for his coup.

      • That’s what I was thinking. One grenade would get a lot of them. Three man fire team would make hash out of this bunch of morons. As for the vehicle, well, they have to get out and pee sometime.

    • Actually, the SS guys generally looked pretty fit and squared away. This looks more like some teenaged Airsoft team, posing for a photo op.

  3. That line of Cops you see walking towards you…that’s the line in the sand, clear as day.

    • Those are some of the sights to see beyond the line. If you see that coming towards you then you know that the People shoulda taken that left turn at Albuquerque.

  4. Glock 19 on my person, AR-15 not more than a few steps away. And plenty of fresh mags readily available.

    • I’m a hick, so if I had the time and the funds I’d take a Weatheby Vanguard chambered in .300 Win Mag on it’s second barrel (got to shoot at least one barrel out… for familiarization 😉

      Absent time etc, I’ll stick with my Ruger 77 .30-06 with it’s left hand bolt, already on it’s second barrel (for familiarization 😉

      I know WSM and Weatherby Magnum are both “more accurate” and “harder hitting” but they’re also more expensive, less available and reduce the lifespan of your barrel.

      For CQB purposes I’d probably keep my KSG on hand.

  6. Finally… PROOF that you don’t need a 30-round magazine to protect yourself against one or two criminals.

    You need 14 of them (and a 12 gauge shotgun)… plus spares…

  7. There are no guns in New Jersey, because criminals don’t have any of course.

    As to those “tea party racist gun owners”,they’ll be best served keeping a low profile and carefully storing any weapons laying about.One of the hazards of life in a Blue Zone for gun owners is being suddenly deprived of your collection for reasons beyond your control….like a “lockdown”.

  8. Keep a handgun handy. Hide the rest. Think Katrina they had no problem knocking your door down “for your safety”.

    • The problem with that is by default in nj the ss troopers I mean cops know who has what handgun its all on those fancy pistol permits.

    • I think the question is basically a general issue, not just MA specific, and relates o FFLs not being able to re-supply the citizens. Confiscation and “Shelter in place” are separate issues.

      As to confiscating guns already legally possessed (in Mass?), wasn’t that rather definitively decided in the courts after Katrina?

  9. Can someone please explain the boating accident analogy? Is that what you tell the cops when they come looking for your guns or do I have something wrong?

  10. Wow is this the state of a SWAT team now adays? 4 old guys and 2 fat guys? The rest fit the bill but I was under the impression you had to be in great physical condition and very fit. Looks like Boston kinda gave up on fitness for effectiveness.

    AR15, hidden but close by.

    • There have been enough Jerry Miculek posts on this site over the last few months that nobody should categorically believe an old man with a gun is somehow less competent or effective than a young man with a gun.

      • age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm every time. Let the young hot bloods rush in. They’ll mark the minefields and snipers for us.

      • Jerry is a badass, that’s fairly obvious. Im talking physically. A man weighting 400 pounds running a marathon wont be as effective as a man half his weight and in better shape. So expecting someone in their 60’s to perform as well as someone in their 30’s in say a combat scenario is a bitt odd.

        • You are correct, except that SWAT rarely has to do anything like military style combat ops, meaning long firefights, long foot movement, or carrying a full field pack for days at a time. There will nearly always be a perimeter before they get called, and they arrive in the big truck pretty close and move in slowly and deliberately most of the time. Different mission, the physical requirements aren’t nearly so broad.

      • Id say your right. I suppose SWAT teams to me have taken on a light of being the same in combat as a para-military or actual military. Easy to forget that they don’t really do much, at least in comparison. Well I suppose other then the possible lack of experience, and legitimate use in action (shooting/running/breaching/etc) aside, at least the young bucks have sharper senses. Though that too can be argued.

        • Also note, there’s what, FIFTEEN of these guys, heavily armed and armored, against how many bad guys? This is not combat against an equal force so they just move in on you like a tsunami and crush you. No fancy running or tactics required.

    • That’s not the state of SWAT, that’s the state of cops these days. All tacticaled out just like the real military.

      Scary, huh?

      • Those are regular cops in tactical gear? I thought those were SWAT teams pulled together from other counties or towns. This police militarization thing is worse then I thought.

  12. I see 15 guys in body armor and heavily armed. If they come to my door, where i have 2 grandaughters living with me as well as wife and daughter, I will comply with their demands. I know that ain’t the saber rattling you want to hear but it’s what most of us would do.

    It’s to late to tool up and meet them at the door. You’ll just die and be carried on the books as a nutjob that had to be killed in self defense.

    The time to stop this sort of thing is now. Before the emergency. Vote and stay active. Get the mayors and the councils and the chiefs under control now and the only ones that need to worry about that stack up is real criminals.

        • Just a suggestion, but can WE drop the “common” from “common sense”? I think it has been pretty much degraded as a colloquial term until it generally means the exact opposite of what is intended. How about just use “sense”? We need to take back the language as a first step. Just sayin’.

        • JWM seems to be the voice of reason in many of the threads. I agree with him here. It’s always a good idea to have some guns and ammo stashed in another location though. I usually don’t have more than 3-4 guns in my safe at any time. The rest are somewhere else, offsite, safe and accessible if I’m not dead.

        • @CliffH, yeah,that term has pretty much lost all meaning. Actually, it was kind of an oxymoron to begin with. Common sense isn’t usually sensible. What most people mean when they say “common sense” is GOOD sense…which is lamentably uncommon.

    • I think that’s a very wise course of action, jwm. If we’re being encouraged to “shelter in place,” my above load out stands. That would assume there’s some kind of isolated, external threat. But if all of a sudden the State has become the threat, well…that changes things significantly.

      • Not just all of a sudden…it already is slowly becoming that threat. Has been for decades, what with the War on Drugs ™ and the so-called Patriot Act.

        But it’s not necessarily irreversible, which is why JWM’s take on this is so appropriate.

        Me, if they come knocking looking for weapons to “secure,” I probably will already be carrying my CCW pistol (as I do frequently at home anyway) and leaving the gun safe as a honeypot. Hopefully they’re happy with the easy grab and don’t start asking lots of questions. Probably a useless hope, considering the state of Washington has a de facto handgun registry and it’d be tough to hide all the pistol paraphernalia, but still…

        • If they are serious they are going to ask if you are armed, then after you surrender your carry piece they are going to cuff you and detain you outside while they “search” (tear up) your house. If you have a safe you are going to be forced to open it.

          If you have any weapons you did not declare, expect to be charged with making a false statement and maybe obstruction.

          All of that will be perfectly legal, because they already have a judge on call to sign the warrant after you admit you own firearms. Assuming they didn’t show up with a warrant.

          Seriously, what JWM said. If they are on your property, it’s too late.

    • Yeah, this is good logical common sense response. and, if things start heading south it would be about that time to cache your weapons underground. dig em up later after the search has come through.

      • If they just don’t kill you or holdyou for not complying for who knows how long. Just because you surrender doesn’t mean you are safe. You are putting yourself at the mercy of those who do not have mercy. If things go down like that, it is going to be a very bad time regardless of what you do and alot of things like if SWAT will decide to allow you to live or kill you is out of your control.

        There are videos that show the National guard and cops after Katrina beating the crap out of old ladies who were complying. Not the kind of people who have mercy. If they do come for your guns, and have them hidden somewhere for another time, they will just throw yout butt in prison so you will never see those guns again anyway because you will be an emeny of the state. Enemies of the state are never treated kindly by the state or its thugs. If they do go after guns, they are going to go after gun owners as well.

    • O.k. But some of us down live in urban townhouses or apartments. An APC could get stuck in my drive way.

    • This is one of your comments I can completely agree with. +1

      Should the People be unable to stop these things before coming to that, I would suggest one consider Emiliano Zapata’s words, “It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!” Others might find wisdom in a statement by Demosthenes, “The man who runs away may fight again.” This may be more recognizable as, “He who fights and runs away may live to fight another day.”

  13. S&P M&P 9 and Beretta CX Storm 9mm carbine. Lots of 9mm ammo tucked away. I think the NRA should actively challenge all of these state laws i.e. wage war by counter attacking laws so that legislators will think twice about violating the second amendment. I think most of NRA members would support a rate increase. NRA should poll the membership.

  14. AR, backup AR, and sidearm for me. Not all at the same time, of course, never go full retard.
    20ga shotguns for the two oldest offspring.
    Lever-action rifle for the spousal unit, in condition 3 (loaded magazine, empty chamber) unless need arises.
    Other offspring get to be runners for messages and supplies.

    • WTF are you talking ’bout? 2 FNP45s in hip holsters, 2 Beretta 92A1s in shoulder holsters with a FiveSeven with extended mag in tactical holster at 6 ‘o clock. Barrett M82 over the right shoulder with AR in 458 SOCOM over the left. FN P90 at the ready.

      Always go full retard!

    • Didn’t you hear? Obama apologized for that. I bet he’s sorry you had to sell your guns, too.

      • He’s told a lie his lips were moving.

        The only thing Odumba is sorry about is that he did not marry Hallie Barry and cheat on her with Beonce.

    • Hey don’t make that type of comment on Facebook on MSNBC or Rachel Maddow the liberal moderators at Facebook will give you temp/perm ban. Several of my friends have been banned by Facebook after makiing anti-gun control comments on liberal websites I think Twitter is going to be more popular than Facebook especially by conservatives and or gun rights folks.

  16. I live in semi-rural GA, my sheriff would probably deputize the armed citizens (aka: every body in the county) in the event of an emergency. I have walked into the county courthouse forgetting that I was open carrying my handgun (or rather that I was in a gun free zone) and been politely asked to go secure the weapon in my car by the deputies at the metal detectors.

    If it were a situation where I thought my weapons might be confiscated they would be buried in the miles of woods and fields behind my house with GPS tags and physical yet discreet tags, all but one of my handguns for immediate defense and check off the list appeasement of the new fascist po-po.

    Nope I ain’t dying in a no-win situation where it’s me and my family vs. a team of heavily armed and armored police with back up probably minutes away. A resistance of 1 ain’t gonna cut it. I’ll survive the initial and hook up with an organized resistance later.

    • That is if they still just don’t shoot you dead and plant something on yo or hold you and your family for who knows how long. It was common for cops to carry a spare gun on them with missing serial numbers for such a purpose. In this day and age when almost every cop shoot is nearly automatically a good shoot because of the blue wall. How many times have we read about SWAT stormming the wrong house and killing innocent and even unarmed people? Then still judged as a good shoot.

      Best thing is to have some sort of early warning system (like a driveway sensor), strong doors that will slow them down, an hidden escape route, and that your guns were lost in a boating accident. The problem with just giving up is you are giving yourself and your family up to the mercy of those who are trained not to have any mercy in them. For all you know they may toture (boot kicking, tazering, jaming a club where the sun doesn’t shine, etc) you and your family while hand cuffed and helpless to make you talk. Then charge you for resisting and rot in prison with Bubba. If it does go down, it is going to be bad no matter what you do. Just be prepared that surrendering may not save you or your family’s lives from the trigger happy goons. If they want you dead, you are just dead.

    • Which brings up the question of “how hard will the FFLs work to fight off the looters and protect their stocks?” They are all insured, you know.

      • Ammo will get you by in times of no money, better than money will get you through in times of no ammo.
        or at least thats what Ive heard ha

  18. As for the title question, AR-15/M16. Great for defense and offense if needed. As for the question in the last sentence, if the Po Po came to my door looking for my firearms without a legal and justifiable court order to remove my firearms by name, then they would be met with lethal force. Without the court order they are just common crooks trying to steal my peoperty and thus not police.

    • I agree with you on principle, brother, but look at the picture: there are FIFTEEN of those bastards! THIS is the civilian force equivalent to the military that Obama was talking about. You cannot enforce a tyranny without sufficient armed goons to back it up.

      The only weapon that will effectively fight these thugs and their plans for our weapons and our liberty is whatever device you are allowed to wield on each and every election day. And then eternal vigilance to stop the bastards from just stealing the elections.

      And PLEASE, until they have managed to become established as a major party and usurp the position currently held by the Republicans, STOP WASTING YOUR VOTE on third party Libertarians! If the Libertarian in Virginia had not siphoned off 6% of the conservative vote they would have a (somewhat) conservative governor today instead of that Bloomberg/Obama toady.

      Libertarian voters GAVE that election to the Democrats, not all the money Bloomberg spent.

      And if you’re a Libertarian running for office, please infiltrate the Republican party and boot their RINO candidates. We can win by Libertarians and Tea Party taking back the Republican party, not by ensuring that neither Republicans nor Libertarians ever get elected again.

      • Yes, do “stop wasting your vote”. Republicans in control do NOTHING to repeal bad laws, and all their propaganda and campaign promises are lies.

        The people who voted Libertarian didn’t “hand” any election to anyone. To assume they did is to imagine that every Libertarian party vote is otherwise Republican. That’s just stupid.

        The Republican party position on war (more war!), on drugs (more war!), on guns (just as eager to ban them as Democrats), on Social Security(more! bigger!), on the military occupation of America (more police! more guns for police! more tanks, armor, SWAT!) are ABHORANT to those who love liberty.

        Have the Republicans, who have had majorities in Congress many times, ever repealed ANYTHING?

  19. “Shelter in place” is supposed to mean that we stay at home and wait it out, whatever “it” is. In the case of a shelter in place, I’ll do with my guns what I always do. We’ll hang out with the cats and enjoy life.

    An order to evacuate changes everything. If I need to evacuate because of a conflagration or dangerous weather event, I won’t be able to take all my guns. In that case, it’s easily-concealed handguns for me, my AR in my backback and a toolbox full of ammo that’s ready to go.

    If I’m ordered to evacuate my home because a 19 year old terrorist is loose in my neighborhood with a pressure cooker, I’m going to question the cops’ motives. Are they concerned for my welfare, or are they concerned that I’ll shoot the bastard who tries to invade my home? Either way, I’m not going.

    • If you’re in NJ and have to leave your home, the law says the guns have to be left behind. The basis of NJ’s unconstitutional firearms laws says that firearm are illegal to possess, unless you have an exemption. You have an exemptions in your home, at your business (if you own the business), at the range, going (directly) to and from the range, hunting, and to and from an FFL dealer. Otherwise, you’re a criminal. Fleeing in a disaster is not an enumerated exemption. And just to make it worse, since an exemption is an affirmative defense, the gun owner has the burden of proving the exemption applies.

      Yes, there’s an exemption for concealed carry, but that’s largely theoretical – with about 9 million adults potentially eligible, NJ issues about 1,200 total (about 600 a year, renewable every 2 years). There’s a may issue state for you.

      So all of that being said, the police decision to close down gun stores in an emergency is among the least of a NJ citizen’s many problems.

      • Well, I live in Florida and it is illegal for any entity to make such demands like that. We have states of emergency in the U.S. Screw the silly sons of bitches that try to pull martial law bullshit.

    • A 240B is a bit excessive methinks. A well placed M67 would do the trick just fine, look at how bunched up they are…

  24. Jared, great advice. Eggs in one basket type metaphor.

    JWM, as usual, right as rain. I’m in an identical situation to you. Although, all the locals always joked that they either know where to go for help, or know where to stay away from.

  26. What gun for martial law?

    Well, it depends somewhat on the setting and activity. If I am hunting/scavenging in open terrain, I want a .270/.308/.30-06 rifle so I can “reach out and touch someone” if they initiate hostilities toward me. If I am mulling around an urban or suburban setting, I want an AR15.

    Regardless of which setting and rifle, I want a handgun strapped to my side as well in case the rifle fails.

  31. That formation would be s.o.l. if a grenade launcher got deployed are a crazy Chet with a pressure cooker.

    That said, a .300 Weatherby & .338 Win mag would rock from a bold gun Mag, ..30-06 or338 Win Mag, would rock from a B.A.R. and the .50 BMG would just rock from any thing. From an AR platform, the .50 Beowulf would be the cats meow.

  32. I’d want to have an AR and an XDM 9mm, but if I was actively resisting martial law, I’d want something strong enough to defeat their body armor at range. Maybe a Winchester Model 100 semi-auto rifle in 284 or 308?

  33. For martial law, I’d like two guns:

    1.) A Beretta Model 21 with a threaded barrel and a compact suppressor of some kind.

    2.) 16″ barrel AR10 built around a MEGA MATEN-MKM with a 1-4x optic and an AAC 51T mount with a 762-SDN

  36. If martial law is declared, I was assume my Government knows best, and has my best interests at heart. I would trust them implicitly and scrupulously obey all instructions conveyed by APC loudspeaker. The very thought of owning, possessing or holding a weapon would make me quake in my boots. I would go into the razorwire compound with a song in my heart and a spring in my step. Three cheers for the Government!

  38. Its all about being prepared. Remember the boy scout thingy? After the boating accident I would have gone and bought a couple more guns. Its too late to buy a generator when the power goes out and its too late to buy a chainsaw when a storm knocks down all your trees. If a gunowner or prospective gun owner learned anything from the last 12 months it should have been YOU CANNOT WAIT TILL THE SHTF to arm up. If you do, you are doomed and you know what Nixon said about the doomed.

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