Unknown

A reader who prefers to remain anonymous writes:

At my place of employment, we had an internal memo released today about something shocking. Today it was revealed that a handgun was found in a company storage area in my building. This is a locked and secured area. The reason I find this of particular note is that I work in the industry that’s mainly responsible for making sure that most law abiding citizens aren’t able to carry in the work place — the insurance industry . . .

Specifically, I work for a subsidiary of the largest insurance provider on planet earth. The irony wasn’t lost on me. This facility is almost as soft a target as it gets. We have glass keycard doors that are easily defeated by a hammer, un-armed “security” guards (not pictured above) who are elderly and don’t do much more than log in visitors and watch the few security cameras. We also have nice big “No Firearms” signs on the doors.

Few of my colleagues are big 2A supporters, but they are all smart enough to know a 70-year-old and some signs wont stop a determined attacker, so the gun that was found has been a lively topic of discussion. I am a CCW permit holder from Dan Zimmerman’s neck of the woods, and this really hit home for me. In my place of employment, just like for most of your readers, getting caught with a gun, legal or not, is a sure ticket to the unemployment line. However, a job doesn’t mean much if you are dead.

My question is what your readers value more in this this situation? Do you go the deep concealment route knowing that if you screw up, you lose your job? Or do you just pray you aren’t the unlucky statistical irregularity?

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

158 COMMENTS

  1. pray. and save my bonuses so that if I lose my job, well, I will still be alive.

  2. I carry a big-ass knife (Cold Steel Ti-Lite 6), and hope that whatever problem may arise doesn’t call for a (nonexistent) ballistic solution.

    • Same here, when unable to carry a gun, I have as big of knife I can reasonably carry. I cant carry a knife, I bring some object that could double as a weapon like a gerber, when forced to be completely unarmed, I look for everyday objects around me that could be used as weapons at anytime, and if none are to be found, then I prepare for hand to hand, even if they have a gun, I still have my brain, and my hands.

  3. My company actually pulled an insurance policy for me, specifically, to keep a firearm in the building concealed. I had to actually undergo alot of training, surprisingly, to qualify for the policy.. However, the managers feel it is an excellent way to keep the building secure, especially since I’ve got access to both handgun and rifle while at work and the actual policy isn’t much more expensive over some of the other people that have to work around dangerous equipment all day. Suppose they just got a head on their shoulders.

    • Don’t stop now! How did you get that treatment, did you ask for it or did the company suggest it? I have never heard of such!

      • The company suggested it, mostly because of a few incidents with violent vagrants around the area trying to break in. Essentially, I’m an armed guard paid for by the the company itself, so it works out.

  4. Super small weapon, deep concealment, caution. I’ve never been one to feel bound by rules, and I’ve broken enough of them (workplace rules, societal rules, laws, etc) to know that as long as you’re smart, you won’t get caught. Plus, I can always get another job. Maybe not as good as my current one, but there are others out there. If I die, there’s no getting my life back.

      • Bingo!
        I was talking to my supervisor who is a big gun guy. We started talking about shooting drills and I casually mentioned that I was going to the range on the way home and I would try out the drill he suggested. His attitude changed quickly and he said “You better not have your gun in your car in the parking lot”. See my lot is “secured”. We take a shuttle to the property from the lot. I was calm and quick and said no that I was going to rent one at the range. The truth is…Your damn right my gun is in my car! How do we have a right if we can’t use it? Bottom line, keep your mouth shut about carrying even to your friends.
        PS I won’t get fired for having a gun at work…I will get a life sentence. We are policed by the city, the TSA, DHS, Customs and Border Protection etc. Won’t stop a madman with nefarious intent however.

        • I know of a couple of guys at my work who are big gun nuts and they have a small Circle of friends at work (whom I apparently am trusted by) who do carry. They have ankle holsters with small firearms. I work in a factory and they allow firearms in your vehicle, but not inside. My work is a gated facility which confuses me. If we can’t carry, then why allow in the cars if you know that if such a disaster happened that there is a 95% chance it’d be from an employee/former one who still has a passlock?

        • Your safe from persecution in GA. State law dictates that your car is your private property and you can have any kind of gun you want in it, anywhere in the car you want it. No matter where its parked. Doesn’t matter if the place is a “gun free zone” you can legally always leave/have a gun in your car. I do so daily, I go to college and cant carry in school, so I leave my gun in my truck, though I cant carry it, It can be in my vehicle on school grounds.

        • The way I understand the rules in my case is, my lot has the same restrictions as my workplace because we are in effect in a sterile area therfore Federal laws apply and it would be a felony. Also, the lot has private ownership and the owner has a no gun policy therefore I would be in violation of that.

        • It’s always best to be discrete about whether or not you’re carrying. My rule is this: Never. Tell. Anyone. If you’re a Person Of The Gun you ought to know better than to ask and People Who Are Not Of The Gun absolutely don’t need to know. Schools are especially treacherous in this regard because not only are they primary targets for mass killers, they are also populated by people who unrealistically believe that calling 911 will somehow protect them. Back when I was a humble academic, I had a couple of illustrations of the Never Tell Anyone rule. The first was almost ludicrous. One day in a parking lot a particularly aggressive street-guy wouldn’t take no for an answer. I walked between two cars, thinking my department chair was behind me. When I looked back . . . she wasn’t there. Instead, she’d halted in the middle of the lane. There she stood, all 5 foot 3 of her, seriously pissed off, not moving one more step backwards, and facing down one now ashen faced beggar who’d just realized he’d made a very bad mistake. Turned out she regularly carried a Glock 19 in a false bottom of her purse. The second time was a lot more serious. We had a report of attempted kidnapping by a guy who might have been carrying a gun. The campus locked down. All except almost the entirety of our small criminal justice department who were mostly licensed peace officers. They immediately headed toward the location of the problem. In both cases nothing was said about who was or who wasn’t carrying a gun. There was simply a tacit understanding among the few of us that, despite being a “gun free zine”, on our campus there were always some people who were armed.

        • @mike in GA- Yeah if its Federal property then your probably not protected, but, if its private you are still protected- legally speaking- Your higher ups could still fire you, but in GA Parking Lots are an exception to the rule of private property, because your parking your private property on Thiers, and as long as it stays in the vehicle your fine. But, as you mentioned, with it being federal property, I’d keep it a sound secret.

  6. Deep concealement.

    Most people aren’t situationally aware enough to know you’re carrying.Just carry, and keep your fracking trap shut. Don’t yak about 2nd Amendment stuff or come off as a “gun guy” at work, or you’ll have a microscope parked over your hiney every day. If your office is particularly hoplophobic or your management is anti gun, keep the gun trivia on the DL.

    Lastly: make sure it’s not against state law to carry at your office. You can recover from a bad reference or being fired. You can’t recover from a felony conviction for illegal CCW, and even an arrest which leads to dropped charges will still show up on a BG check. Also decide well in advance what you’ll do if there’s a active shooter: because even if your company doesn’t have a policy about CCW, they’re probably still going to fire you afterwards as a matter of liability and risk management. Only you can decide if saving your coworkers lives is worth risking your and your family’s sustenance.

    In my case, the gun does not come out unless its clear I’m going to die in the next few seconds if I don’t.

    Decide carefully.

    • I know the above sounds horrible, but it’s probably the best advice on the matter. Reality is going to trump how we wish things were.

    • I’m not permitted to carry at my workplace. so I do not. The job market here sucks and if I get canned my chances of finding work are slim.

      That said, I work in an area with lots of cover and concealment handy–if someone decides to start trouble, I’ve got plenty of places to go and a million different ways to get there. Yes, I HAVE run through these scenarios in my head. There’s enough ambient noise to conceal my movements to someone who isn’t used to the din. There are sources of improvised weapons (of varying degrees of effectiveness) all over the place, and almost always in arm’s reach. I’m fairly confident that should a troublemaker gain access, I would easily be able to A: get the cops on their way, B: get to safety and, if I’m lucky, C: subdue the threat. I’ve been working at this job 7 years. I know the building like the back of my hand. I can, and HAVE, navigated it blind. (F***ing power failures)

      • Yeah Jim, but what if the shootist is a fellow employee who knows the place as well as you. Seems like a lot of workplace shootings are perp’ed by people who have a good reason to be on the premises

        • I have that angle covered, as well. My workspace is in a strategically advantageous position. I’m all but guaranteed to see them coming before they see me. I can be on the move before they know I’m even there. I might only have a second or two to move, but that’s all I need.

      • See, this is exactly how everyone aught to think. Everywhere, even if you can carry, given an attack can happen anywhere anytime, we may not be able to get to our arms in time, and thinking as you stated, puts one above the situation. Too many people (more so anti gunners but some POG too) think, “oh well, I guess I’m SOL, I guess I’m just gonna lay down and wait to get shot and die” that’s Bullshit. 3 strikes and you are not out, there is always one more thing you can do. Always. Chances are the guy shooting the place up is not very smart, or strong, he’s probably a punk ass. Like most shooters, they’re punk ass twerps that get revenge on “bullies” my murdering a shit ton of people. Look at Lanza and Holms, I could whoop both of them with one hand cut off, after having been shot. Just have to get within arms reach, that’s all you have to do. That’s it. Even if your only option is charging your attacker head long and taking a hail of bullets, they wont be expecting that, and if you die, then oh well, at least you died fighting, you will surely go to Valhalla!

        • That logic could apply to a BG with a box cutter on an airplane, but sometimes stuff just goes down the way it goes down.

      • Recent history shows that the cops won’t come into the building until the shooting stops.

        • I don’t blame them. It’s not their job to protect the people inside, and to them it’s easier just for the perp to run out of bullets or commit suicide.

        • I believe that is changing. Our local Sheriff has stated their new SOP is to charge in and kill the shooter as fast as possible.

        • Had an active shooter a few months ago in my town. Within 3 minutes of the 911 call, the shooter was dead. They didn’t wait for the shooting to stop. There were no questions or negotiations. The shooter was taken out and the officers saved many others from being killed.

  7. I lock it in my glove box. Would rather not get fired, and being that there’s at least a couple hundred people in my workplace, I figure my chances of not being shot are pretty good.

  8. Fortunately, my company is small enough that it’s not a bureaucratic super highway to the exit. A senior officer (#2 in the company, really) kind of gave me a wink and nod when the topic came up along the lines of “I can’t tell you that you can, but I’m sure not going to ask. Who are we to infringe your rights?”.

    Plus my company is small enough (~90 employees) that if I were to go, it would be devastating in the short to medium term. Going forward, were I to change companies, i would always address that in the initial phone screening (pre-supposing I wasn’t hurting for work). “if you’ve got a company no weapons policy, I intend to violate it every single day”.

  9. Deep concealment. And resist the temptation to mention it, even in passing. Just as it’s better to be tried by twelve than carried by six, so it goes with work. There’s a solution for almost any dress code. Go with that solution and carry on. If you can find another job that respects your well-being more seriously, do so. But if not, do the best you can with what you have.

    Tom

  10. I would suggest on-body, concealed all the time…

    And if you fail at that don’t complain if you get fired.

    • I think this is a position with which most concealed carriers in a “gun free” work place would resonate. The gun would be revealed only in a situation in which living long enough to get fired would be a plus.

      • Pretty much this. . . my BUG is a .380 bodyguard carried on the ankle and undetectable so long as I’m wearing pants and you aren’t touching me in a very odd way (nobody hugs your lower leg). As far as it being revealed in advertently I think it’s so improbable that it’s just not in the realm of concern. As for using it, I’m with you, if I pull it I’ll be glad to live long enough to be fired and it’s not a sure thing that I would be. I’m in and out of GFZ facilities all day and always in a suit. When not in a GFZ I carry another pistol and spare mags on my belt and never remove the holsters, just the gear before entering the GFZs, in other buildings I leave both guns on. (The GFZs I have to enter are trespass not legal). It’s a work life balance issue, I want to work but I need to be alive to do it.

  11. Leave the heater it in the glove box. Our group gets Louisville Slugger baseball bats for achieving goals so if an armed person shoots in my area id have to Slug him if I could. I have an edc knife but I wouldn’t want to be that close…

    My company employs about 375,000 globally.

    • With a couple of baseball bats laying around you can always use one as a melee and then start whipping the others through the air. A baseball bat flying end over end would sure knock a SOB out.

  12. Our corporate HQ is in a gun unfriendly state so even though I work in Texas they never specified any sort of policy. However, know the company itself is very gun unfriendly I have never asked about local policy.

    One of my employees has a concealed carry permit. When I was aware there might be a potential situation I asked him to keep his weapon handy. Nothing came of it, of course, but I felt better having someone armed. I really need to get off my duff and get my own permit. That said, outside of extenuating circumstances, I have encouraged him to keep it in the car because I can see HR finding some loophole to nail us with.

    I do think the law should be the ultimate factor though. Concealed means concealed, and that means you shouldn’t know who has a gun and it shouldn’t be anyone else’s business. If a business wants to deem their property a GFZ, they still have to provide a safe environment to their employees, especially if there is something of value in the building.

  13. I work from home.
    My office is very secure.
    Seriously, there’s guns everywhere.
    (Ok, really, there’s guns over there, locked up in the cabinet.)

    Previously, I worked in metal fabrication, me and 9 other guys on night shift.. no need to carry at work. Before that, it was hotels where I worked dusk til dawn behind about an inch of lexan. Company policy was no weapons. I will neither confirm, nor deny the presence of weapons while I was employed there.

    • Good policy. Of course, you could describe how you brought weapons, which ones you brought, how much ammunition you brought with you, how you secreted them into the facility, and then at the end take the 5th so no one could ask you questions.

      Your story sounds like mine. I have that policy as well in my previous employment.

      • The only time I ever had a thought of it at the hotel..

        Dude comes up, sets a Mossberg on the outer shelf, resting it at an angle pointed at my head.
        Tells me I can come up with money and car keys, or I can go home with a face full of bird shot.

        I laughed as I pushed the red “Free Donuts” button and told him to shoot.
        He took a better look at the window, and did a little geometry and realized that he might actually hit himself in the face. About that time, the cruiser pulled up behind him, and he surrendered to the badge that got out.

        But I will admit, I was curious to see if the lexan would only stop the shot, or if it would deflect. No, the officer responding was not amused with how I handled it.

        Which reminds me.. if anybody reading TTAG works at a place that has good coffee, and pastries, make these available to any and all LEOS, free of charge, anytime. You will have police in marked cars stopping by at random intervals, and if you ever put in a call, they waste no time getting to you.

    • I’m currently in my home office and there really are guns everywhere: an FAL that I’m working on, my CQB set up AR, and old SKS that’s just resting in a corner, my pair of EDC pistols are on the catch all I dress from and let’s see, the 1911 I weekend carry. . . I think that’s all. . . for this room.

      I wish it were so in the various offices I work from when not at home, it really strikes me as insane that given the massive level of faith and trust my employer must have for me to do what I do and handle what I handle they still cant bring themselves to trust me enough to carry a gun. I still do, but it’s not a warm fuzzy feeling knowing if it’s ever found out I may well be terminated.

  14. If “no firearms” signs in Ohio did not have the force of law behind them, I would go deep concealment. As it stands, I lock it in the car. A right nuisance.

  15. AIWB, or a pocket carried J frame. I can always find a new job, but I am quite fond of this life that I lead.

    Side note: When I finally found the right AIWB holster (CCC Shaggy), I was blown away with what I could conceal. A P229 actually disappears under a t shirt, and I am rather average sized.

  17. Current employment: No restriction or limitation whatsoever. In fact, just the opposite.

    Previous employment: I take the 5th.

  18. Personally, not willing to end a career, hurt my family’s well-being, and possibly go to jail on a statistically unlikely scenario. Carry when you can, but knowingly carrying against your company policy is a one-way ticket to not only getting canned, but possibly ruining your entire career.

    • Unfortunately, I’m right there with you. I work in a healthcare profession with a high educational barrier to entry, licensure boards in each state, and though the job market is great you WILL NOT get hired if your background check reveals law violations related to weapons. These same violations are also grounds for disciplinary action on your license, which is information that can be accessed by any of the state boards. Essentially, getting caught with a firearm at work in a state where postings carry force of law will knock me out of a profession that took 7 years of education and God knows how much red tape to get into.

      I play the odds, and have a plan to get to my vehicle ASAP, where a firearm may or may not be, in the event of some kind of incident on my work campus.

    • You have to conceal at work? I thought you were,”…an officer and trainer with a New Mexico police agency”? Maybe you’re talking about when you do undercover?

  21. I am a semi-retired consultant who has now accumulated enough in the bank to get to full retirement on my planned date (Next January). Since I live in Virginia where NO GUN signs don’t have the force of law I could bring my Nano and probably get away with if I don’t talk about it. My solution is a can of bear spray in my backpack, several multitools and a large folding buck knife which is probably a technical violation of the rules but nobody has actually told me that. I could make an entire room or corridor uninhabitable by dumping the contents of the bear spray into the space which should provide any active shooter a reason to go shoot someone else if he had to pass through the cloud to get to me.

  22. As a medic in Pennsylvania we are not allowed to carry while providing EMS, unless we are working as part of a tactical medic team. I usually lock it in vehicle in hidden case and carry a “seat belt cutter” as some sort of protection.

  23. Deep concealment whenever prohibited by facility rules (which do not carry the force of law in my state), more comfortable concealment where not prohibited. I only leave it in the car if I’m going somewhere where it is truly against the law to carry. Open carry at home, unless I have guests, and then it’s back to comfortable concealment.

  24. That guard is the one the Supreme Court used to decide’POLICE HAVE NO DUTY TO PROTECT INDIVIDUALS” YA GOT THAT RIGHT!!

  25. I work for a really small company and we have had some threats over the years and a few crazy employees that were let go with a lot of screaming. One so bad that the guy wasn’t even allowed to come back into the office to get his personal belongings. I work with my fiancé and I carry everyday. I go to the gym everyday during lunch so bringing my securely holstered weapon in my gym bag goes unnoticed. Not to mention I sit next to one of the owners of the company so if there was ever a disgruntled employee situation I would be in thick of it. But like others have said my company is silent on the issue.

  26. I carried anyway. It wasnt enforceable by law so the only threat over my head was termination.
    Then I got a better job and now I carry everyday and there is no threat over my head.

  28. If the recent hullabaloo over MDA’s jefe not knowing that one of ours was carrying when he posed with a photo with her is any indication, nobody is going to know whether you’re carrying a weapon of any configuration (except a long-gun of course.. and even then..) from the get-go.

    That being said, I won’t ever advocate that you go against the policy of your employer should they (erroneously) ban you from carrying a weapon. Don’t count on any leniency even if you end up stopping a mass-casualty shooting successfully with zero collateral damage. You’re still going to get canned.

    So, I would advise everyone to choose carefully.

    As for me personally, deep concealment and ample amounts of caution would be the way to go.

  29. In the early 90’s, I was promoted to the position of SVP for a California-based Thrift and was responsible for managing their residential lending division in the Northeast. During my first week as regional VP, I was contacted by the head of the bank’s human resources department who instructed me to immediately terminate one of our loan officers – a CCW holder who shot and killed a mugger in self-defense. I told her to pound sand and never heard anything about the issue again. The poor guy, who was traumatized enough, would have ended up on the street under the previous manager’s reign.

  31. Some of our brothers and sisters go the deep concealment route where if they screw up, they become felons, but I guess better a felon than dead.

    With North American Arms mini-revolvers… anything is possible. Also, Seecamp 380 or the cheaper Micro Desert Eagle are very easy to conceal as well with decent fire power.

  32. Hmm. My companies policy is that no guns or knives are allowed in the building or in the parking lot. We’ve actually had an employee fired for violating this policy (among other things).

    I have multiple exits so I don’t violate the policy, except that I carry a pocket folder daily, and I keep a large fixed blade in my car. Of course this is not intended to be a weapon just a tool for cutting seatbelts in an emergency. ( I’ve been first on scene to a few rollovers)

    The other area of interest is travel. There is a Grey area, when visiting states like indiana that have legal protection for ccw holders leaving firearms in vehicles.

    Were I to test this Grey area I’m sure the company wouldn’t like it, but I’m not sure the legalities of that situation as it involves an out of state resident and two locations of the same employer. Ive been advised by a lawyer not to push the limit so I don’t, but his opinion was off the cuff and not well researched.

    Funny: I used my folder to open a box and my boss reminded me there was a “no weapons policy”. I replied ” the knife is a tool” I picked up a connecting rod and said “this is more of a weapon” he was speechless and walked away with nothing further said.

    • In one little tool, a glass breaker and protected blade seatbelt cutter that you can hang on a carabineer from the head rest post. You just yank it off the release and it is always in the same place even if you’re upside down and disoriented.
      ResQMe
      I think J Yeager did a vid on it once

  33. I am self-employed and work from home, but am often at client locations. So far none of my clients are posted “no carry” locations, although I suspect a couple of them wouldn’t be happy to have someone armed on the premises. Others would be or wouldn’t care. Posted locations here only mean you can be asked to leave and cited for trespassing if you don’t, except in areas prohibited by statute.

    I carry every day and never mention it. So far if anyone has figured it out, they haven’t said anything.

  34. What they don’t know, doesn’t hurt them.

    I don’t say anything, and they don’t ask.

  35. Since changing jobs a few months back, I’m now in a gun free zone.
    I cringe every morning when I leave it in my car.
    I’m working on changing the policy.
    Slow but sure.

  36. Our corporate policy in No Guns. It is universally ignored by one of the admins and everyone knows it. She is on one of our Free America offices and has a CCW. I live in the Peoples Republic of Kaliforniastan. I am also under der Commissar Gore’s Secretariat and therefore have no CCW. I may carry unloaded and locked. In my briefcase. Maybe…but only on days ending in “Y”

  37. I try not to be… overly zealous? In my mind God is my first line of defense, and my brain is my second. The gun is a tool I want to be capable with if the need ever arises, but I respect that it’s not statistically likely I’ll ever need one.

    So I try not to worry. Still. I think about that deep concealment thing. 🙂

  39. I work at a university in the south. Guns are a no-go, but the rules are pretty lenient so that I can keep a gun secured in my car. I’m also off campus, on a higher up floor in the building and the campus PD is armed.

    I figure that a lot of the reason for it has to do with liability…if an employee on the clock accidently shoots someone they can then sue the school. Not saying I agree with that point of view, just saying I understand it. You’ll also note how I didn’t say “innocent bystander” with regards to the person being shot…a sad reflection on our society indeed.

    Regardless, I don’t carry at all despite having a CWP for financial reasons. I’m not sure how much I would carry during the week if I had a gun that I could conceal comfortably either during the week, since I leave from the house (in a rural area), drop the kid off at daycare (don’t know if I’d be allowed to carry in there since it may fall under a school zone perhaps), come to work at a university, and go home afterwards.

    I’d feel a lot more uncomfortable if I worked in (or had to drive through) a bad part of town or something like that.

    With that said, if any overzealous CARRY OR DIE posters want to get me a NAA 22LR revolver, my birthday IS coming up!

  40. I live in Ohio and my workplace is a GFZ. I have pocket carried my Seecamp .32 many times. (wallet holster) Recently I’ve thought better of it and haven’t carried it in 6-8 months. The rules are such that you cant even have a firearm locked in your car on company property. (GFZ signs at the parking lot entrances) I have gone to the range many times with coworkers after work. We just keep it on the down low that our guns are in our cars on those days. I always wondered what would come of a challenge to the no guns in cars on company property rule.

  41. I am a big guy , as I am sure a lot of ya’ll out there are , easy to hide a .38snubby in my pocket , have a boot grip on it when I do , makes a very small package in the pocket , some of ya’ll might could even get by with an ankle holster or the infamous belly band if worn low enough . Be prepared and ready . Keep your powder dry .

  42. Do what you gotta do. I’ve been self employed for 20 years. I also believe GOD is my first line of defense. And GOD told me to always be armed.

  43. One thing I’ve always made sure of is to have at least 2 years salary saved, if I get fired for carrying my firearm then they can go f/// he selves as far as I’m concerned.

  44. I’m actually in the process of figuring this out right now. As I indicated in another post, I’m currently leaving the heater in the glove box while I ascertain the lay of the land. But I’m still wearing my holster, because my pants don’t fit right without it. I’m sorta curious to see if anyone will call me on it, but thus far it only appears that there are about three people (out of ~50) who are gun-aware enough to even notice the clips on my belt and speculate on what they indicate. I’m pretty sure one of those three is actually carrying on his person, and at least one other has it in her car, if not her bag.

    I will soon go back to carrying full time, and if someday it costs me my job, I will be regretful of that fact, but unrepentant about the actual carrying.

  46. I had this same conversation with some friends a few months ago. Different industry, same gun free zone policy. The question was carry or not, but the signage does have the force of law in my neck of the woods so the stakes were pretty high.

    We decided the best course of action to take was to get a plate carrier and hang in a prominent place in your work space. When people notice it, and they did, it gets the conversation started in the workplace. Approached from the right perspective, its a good tactic to win hearts and minds.

    If its not allowed to protect yourself with a weapon, protect yourself with armor.

  47. I work from home these days, but in the past I’d carry in a Maxpedition bag, the Mongo VersiPack. That one doesn’t out much at all in Seattle; lots of folks have similar bags, and while I’d prefer to carry on-body, I thought this wasn’t a bad compromise. My commute on the bus downtown was about an hour each way, and then the bag would go into a locked drawer once I was at the office. Again, it’s not ideal, but it’s one way to keep nosy co-workers honest.

    I should note that my usual carry gun is a little XD 40 sub. That pretty much disappears into a bag like that; plenty of space for that and a couple of mags and there’s no print, no sign you’re packing. A full-size Glock or XD (or pretty much anything, honestly) would be just fine in one of those Maxpedition bags as well.

    Seattle’s not a terribly dangerous town as larger cities go, but there’s enough crazy that I would much rather carry. Luckily Washington is surprisingly gun-friendly, with the state government pre-empting any stupid city codes. My Washington permit was much easier to get than my Utah permit (and that’s saying something, since the Utah permit isn’t much work either).

    The basic philosophy I have is this: I don’t expect trouble in the office; I expect trouble on the bus or walking to/from the bus stops. In the unlikely event my gun does come out at the office, it’s going to be something pretty awful anyway, that will make getting fired a much smaller worry.

  49. I once worked for a company with a “no guns” policy for employees. Interestingly, there were no signs, just a line in the company employee manual. So employees were supposed to be unarmed, but guests were not prohibited from carrying. Odd, yes?

    I carried a .38 snubby in my pocket holster every day. I can understand if people choose to obey the group that controls their paychecks, but that’s not for me.

  50. I used to work for Cabelas with much the same policy, except that a lot of bad shit was happening after dark in our parking lot. I chose to go DEEP DEEP concealment with a 9mm knowing full well that I can find another job, but I only live once.

  51. I work in a childcare program. There is a blanket zero-weapons policy for all staff and members alike.

    With that said, my boss knows I carry outside of work, and has told me that it is “not allowed” and that I would be fired “if caught”. Wink wink. I was then encouraged to pack if we were off site, because the rules only cover on site.

    • I’m a YMCA member; no sign posted where I live, so I carry in, lock it in my locker while I work out, and carry out. That being said, I never let anyone see me holster or un-holster the weapon.

  52. In Texas, we have legal protection to keep our guns in our vehicles on employer premises. There are limits, like it doesn’t apply to company owned vehicles and doesn’t apply at the refineries. What’s interesting is that although the law bars employers from banning employees from keeping guns in their personal vehicles, it’s silent as to what happens if the employer simply decides that you’re no longer an employee because you keep a gun in your car. It’s a fairly new law, so that point will likely be addressed through litigation at some point, and maybe later in revised legislation.

  53. I work for a large coporation, but each operations runs very independently. there is a line in the corporate literature about no weapons on property. i have at least one gun in the car everyday. Ive carried in the building a few times, usually when im off the clock just stopping in to check on something. if i ride my motorcycle i toss the lcp in my backpack and bring it in with me. my hr director is also a permit holder, has hers in the car most days and brings it into the building with her should she foresee letting an employee go or some similar tense situation.

    I’ve made it clear, should there be an issue at work that I will sue the corporate office. when their policy restricts my right to protect myself, they assume liability for my protection. I think a successful lawsuit like that could sway corporate policy.

    i usually carry my lcp in a fobus OWB holster on the way to work. when i park, gun goes in the glove box and the holster goes in the center console. one day i forgot to disarm, walked into the office, took my jacket off and hung it on the rack, walker 30 feet across the office while talking to a coworker, and then realized i just open carried across the office. i apologized to the coworker, high tailed it to my jacket and back out to the car. he didnt say anything, i didnt say anything.

    • “when their policy restricts my right to protect myself, they assume liability for my protection. I think a successful lawsuit like that could sway corporate policy.”

      Except, they didn’t restrict your rights. You did. Their policy was their existing policy and you voluntarily agreed to it when you accepted their offer of employment. Why should a court later step in to address the terms of a mutual and fraud free agreement between competent parties, just because you don’t like how it turns out?

      Man up: renegotiate the policy, depart for a more firearms friendly employer, or start your own company with whatever firearms policy you prefer. But don’t go around expecting a court to kiss your boo-boo and make it all better.

  54. I think the idea of locking your firearm in a car is ridiculous and refuse to do it. Cars are extremely easy to break into and thus a firearm secured in a car is now in the hands of a criminal. I will not take the responsibility of arming a criminal by allowing such easy access to my firearms, even those metal storage safes for cars can be accessed easier than people realize. Should a criminal break into my car in the company parking lot (which has happened on occasion) I would be responsible for anything done with the firearm from then on. While legally I probably would not be held accountable for any crimes committed I will live with the fact that my firearm was unsecured in my vehicle and was stolen as a result of my actions forced on me by my employer.

    So I carry, everywhere I go. If my employer does not like it (and they don’t) they can fire me. But I carry concealed in the liberal bastion of Seattle. Since my employer does not subject me to body searches on a daily basis, none is the wiser as a result.

    • I don’t know the law in your state, but in Texas, possession of a concealed firearm where the property owner has provided notice that firearms are banned, is more than a mere fireable offense. It’s criminal trespassing, which as a Class A misdemeanor is a fairly serious crime. You may want to check the law in your state to be sure you’re making an informed decision about your conduct.

      • Good point, but I have. If I legally can’t carry concealed I don’t go.

  55. I will not tell anyone what I do about the firearm restrictions at the company that I work, except what would happen afterwards. I took the largest life/dismembership policy my self-insured employer has, which if I die on premise, will net about $2 million. Knowing my wife, she will take that money and sue the company repeatedly for not providing adequate security, and she’ll probably spend some of the money to make sure everyone who can read a billboard know what happened..

  56. I work for a Union here in CO. Company policy is no firearms inside, on or off company time. The public is free to carry, and they do. There are many people open carrying everyday. There’s been a battle about guns being left in the vehicle, but the parking is not company owned property.

  57. Some things are beyond the purview of an employer. For example it is none of the employer’s business:
    (a) what religious faith an employee practices
    (b) how an employee votes
    (c) how an employee enjoys intimacy with their spouse
    (d) whether an employee stands up or sits down to urinate
    (e) how an employee wipes themselves after using the bathroom
    (f) what personal property an employee owns or possesses on their person

    Furthermore, an employer cannot force an employee to submit to rape or death, agreed? Well then what do you call it when an employer forbids defensive weapons and guarantees that an attacker will successfully rape or kill an employee?!?!?!? An employer never has any right to forbid self-defense, period. If there are any claimed associated costs with armed employees, that is simply the cost of doing business … just like employers pay for safety equipment to prevent employee injuries.

    Any other arrangement means that companies categorically reject the inherent dignity of human life … that employees are just pieces of meat, organic robots to be used, abused, exploited, and consumed in any way, shape, or form that benefits the company. I am having trouble thinking of anything more reprehensible.

  58. 4 other people in my area. 3 have no firearms, two of those asked me for advice. The other gun owner is my boss. I don’t carry, and neither does he, because our corporate office is in New Jersey. I figure if there is ever a shooting in any of our workplaces, I’m going to file a massive law suit against the corporation for prohibiting me from carrying and creating an environment that made me less safe from those who carry illegally. I think that’s going to have to be the way we handle these workplaces. When we get stuck in a workplace that prohibits the legal carrying of firearms, and the inevitable happens, we should sue them into submission. I hate these kinds of law suits, but if we don’t start coming back on the companies, they will continue to side with the anti-gun agenda.

    • The only problem I see with that is getting a lawyer to take the case. If you don’t have deep pockets or can’t find an attorney that thinks the case is a winner to take on contingency, your chances of even filing a suit are slim.

    • I figure if there is ever a shooting in any of our workplaces, I’m going to file a massive law suit against the corporation

      Not if you’re dead you won’t.

  59. I carry a g26 or a 342 pd j frame. When I have to go to a secure federal facility obviously im unarmed. I sell fasteners, usually carrying (concealed) is a non issue, no one knows, well one guy, and i don’t talk about it but I’m not looking to become a statistic or let any of my unarmed Co workers become a news story. One other guy carries and he and I shoot together sometimes, we’ve been friends for years. I get the sense that he’s the cut and rub type if something happens but he would be more of a help theb a hindrance. Anything that fires a projectile beats the he’ll out of something that doesnt, do what you can.

  60. Work for a small business. I carry every day and the owner and his son know and are grateful. .

  61. Deep concealment with a belly band, tucked shirt, and work vest works very well for me. I take a bicycle to work every day, so I don’t have a glove box or center console to lock my gun inside.

    My workplace has the typical butt covering, no weapons liability policy (“… to promote a safe environment for our customers and employees…”). Another store within the same chain in a neighboring state recently had armed robberies twice within a two-month span. In one of the robberies, the BG had the two clerks lie face-down on the floor, and they complied. They could have been executed at any time, if the robber had been so inclined. Afterwards, the store manager was interviewed for the nightly news. His advice for an armed robbery? Shut up and be a victim.

    Jobs can be left off of resumes, and explanations can be made for future employers. Jobs can be replaced; lives cannot.

  62. For me, carrying firearms or any other dangerous weapons is prohibited conduct that could get me fired, but not against the law. Since I got my CCW 5 months ago, I’ve been carrying and no one has noticed. I have thought about the odds of needing it vs. the odds of getting caught. Maybe I’ll change my mind someday, who knows.

    Here is my Question for the Day (I googled it yesterday and couldn’t find an answer): if someone used a firearm in an otherwise legal, justified defensive manner, but had been carrying illegally (either they didn’t have a CCW, or they had one but were carrying somewhere where it was against the law), what would happen to them? Would they likely be prosecuted? I have a PO box and collect my mail once a week. As we CCW’ers know, it’s illegal to carry on post office grounds. Do y’all park on the street and remove your gun every time you go to the post office? If you don’t, and someone went postal and you took them down, would you get prosecuted? Lose your permit? Would it just depend on the DA?

    • fw,

      I think the local Prosecutor would charge you in most, if not all cases. In some cases their strategy would be hoping that you plead out to a lesser charge so they can claim that they “did something”. In other cases I think they would go to trial. If you go to trial, you hope for jury nullification.

    • I do not disarm to enter the post office on the rare occasion I go in one.

      I’m sure you could be prosecuted; defending your life is not a free pass. I suppose it would be prosecutorial discretion.

  64. We have an official no guns policy. Several at my work place are 2A supporters and gun enthusiasts. Fortunately, one of those people is the company Executive Vice President, number 2 in command. He took it upon himself to remove all of the “no guns” signs from our building, which as far as anyone here is concerned, he has the authority to do. He also made sure to come by to let me know . So in my office, it’s unofficially accepted that those of us who have a CCW permit carry at work, with the (also unofficial) expectation that if a dangerous situation arose, that we would act to protect our coworkers. It’s an arrangement that I’m just fine with.

    If it came to a DGU at the office, while otherwise legal, I would probably lose my job because of insurance reasons. However, I am confident that I wouldn’t be out of work for long.

  65. Sorry to most of you but…
    A ways up the chain of command sits my boss, Scott (Act 35) Walker.
    Therefore I don’t have to handle my situation at all. I just come to work like I go everywhere else except the post office.
    Because I have been around awhile and only a couple of years away from retiring, when they bring out the cake, I plan to reveal that Lo and Behold, they have been amongst a “Man of the Gun” who has had their back with nary a word for all this time. Many that consider me their friend, are anti-gun and never knew I had my CCW, will realize they have sat in many meetings in the presence of a gun and nothing bad happened.
    Maybe a little “common sense” will sink in.

  67. Let me tell you how effed up it is at my job. Cops, Marshals and Customs agents all carry guns,but I saw a Brinks Armored Services employee with an empty holster while restocking a cash machine. A G-man can carry but a guard handling several hundred thousand dollars in cash can’t be trusted? WTF?

  68. My company does not have any signs posted, but we recently had a meeting after a gun was found in an employee’s locker. Our HR manger read a page from the employee handbook, which has yet to be released to employees that stated we are not allowed to carry even with a valid concealed carry permit. She looked at me when she read the last part. After the meeting I asked what was being done because if I cannot ensure my safety I expect them to make sure I get to go home everyday. Their solution is to lock the doors to the building at all times. I explained how that wouldn’t have stopped the employee who got caught because he would have been allowed in since he worked here, but that is all they are doing at this time. I hope that it never comes to it but I told my family if something happens to me to sue my employer for not ensuring my safety.

    • Agreed, I think that this should also apply to businesses that won’t let us carry as customers. They should be aware that by disarming us and not providing any security whatsoever they are opening themselves up to litigation. Won’t do much good if you’re dead but, they should still bear the responsibility if they are not going to protect their intentionally disarmed customers / employees. Why has no one sued the theater in Aurora Colorado yet (& others). Is there something that prevents these type of lawsuits?

  70. I’m lucky enough to work with family, so I’m free to carry.

    If I wasn’t, I’d probably pocket-carry my Taurus TCP. Even though I hate it, it’s better than nothing.

  71. Geez, I feel bad for all you guys. I’m an architect in an office full of gun nuts and I carry everyday – (just not openly unless its after hours). We regularly have AR’s, AK’s, shotty’s, and every kind of pistol you can imagine strewn all over the back counter. Nobody cares. My secretary loves when I bring stuff in. She always wants to take selfies so that she can post them for her friends. It’s all good here.

  73. I work in a facility that employs over a thousand people per shift, which allows plenty of people between me and a shooter. I do not carry a pistol because I could get fired, and because there are quite a few avenues of escape no matter where I am in the facility. There are also plenty of improvised weapons, and I do carry a knife out of habit. I wish I could carry, but a knife is the best I can do.

    • Yep, I’ve repurposed some scrap parts into a pretty nice baton-esque weapon that would easily turn someone’s brain to mush. Yeah, I’d rather have a gun, but this is better than nothing.

      Don’t forget all those office weapons courtesy of our favorite German! I’m waiting for an old USB cable to make my paper roll/scissor axe…

  74. In order to maintain our insurance, members of our church security team have to qualify 4x a year with the same firearm(s) that they carry at church. For work, its one qualification for each of three weapons per year. The serial numbers on my Glock 27 and 23 are logged at the church and at work. I think work also has my .357 snubbie, but I’d carry it even if they don’t.

    Were I to work in a “gun free” office, I would probably alternate between non-compliance and a combination of edged weapons and / or Tasers. I wouldn’t use pepper spray, as I just used it on myself to help clear a sinus infection. It still hurts, and causes quite a bit of tearing, but I could still shoot if I had to.

    I’m curious about smuggling a crossbow. I know it sounds nuts, but sometimes its better to “ask forgiveness” than ask permission. A gun locked in a trunk for a car in the parking lot may be another option.

  75. I work at UPS. Weapons of any kind are verboten and we are searched/ metal detector’d prior to entry and exit of the hub. You may remember the Fedex shooting that just happened, in the past FedEx has fought to make it so their employees can’t even leave their guns in their car in the parking lot. But I live in Kansas, so no employer can dictate to me what I can’t store in my car. Luckily, my work area at UPS is between 2 exits, so my workplace violence plan is ‘run like hell’.

  76. I’m a federal employee, working in an office with a single point of entry, zero security, and a big old no firearms sign on the door, so I’m totally screwed.

  77. I am a remote teleworker for a managed services IT company I work from home (closest actual ‘office’ is three+ hours away) and am ‘very secure.’

  78. I work in a “gun-free” school zone. Can’t carry to work, can’t leave in vehicle unless I wanted to park in te neighborhood a ways away. But I’m not comfortable leaving it in my vehicle. Not willing to risk carrying because if I am discovered not only do I lose my job I go to jail.

    It is a crying shame to me that after 6 years in Army Infantry, in the unlikely event that someone decides to attack our school I am to shelter in place. I am not allowed to try to truly protect the children. Idiotic.

    • I’m in the same position. Work at a school, no way to defend anyone in unlikely chance I would have to.

      I am a professional target at work, I guess.

  79. At Amazon we have to go through metal detectors on the way out of the building. We also have a strict no weapons policy. I imagine in other states this extends to your vehicle as well, but the State of Arizona says we can keep it in the car.

  80. Can’t carry to work, can’t even leave it in my car. Because, you know, the Government only trusts me to carry a weapon when I am in a conflict or warzone.

  81. It’s odd here. We don’t have the signs posted, but there is a no weapons policy for the employees. That said, I’ve had parts and even ammo delivered to me at work without issue.

    The most amusing thing, though I that I do have a sword (real cavalry straight saber) in my office. I had to take the double bladed battle axe, bastard sword and round shield home, but the saber is sort of my trademark. It’s been used as a pointer for presentations. Once, I left it on the CEO’s chair for an “come to Jesus” phone call he was going to have with someone as a joke – an attitude adjustment. Could hear him laughing all the way down the hall.

    When I moved offices last year, I was wondering if I should bring it home. The overwhelming response was that I should keep it – it’s too associated with me.

  83. Can o’ Sabre–technically against the rules, but don’t care. It’s slightly better than just car keys.

    My brother lives in CA and carries a knife, though, more as a tool. He has had some training in Krav, so he’s probably somewhat competent.

  84. Gun-free workplace? This is something I do not have to suffer. I am literally surrounded by guns!

  85. What gun, all go mine were lost in a boating accident. My box opener/seatbelt cutter is an Emerson Combat Karambit folder. I’ll also occasionally carry a medium/large fixed blade on my belt. One boss doesn’t care, the other just asks that I cover it up. I would , of course, never break policy and carry or leave a gun in my car. Though if the zombie apocalypse were to occur, I might have to go take a smoke break to my vehicle……

  86. I work in a state legislated (Texas) gun free zone. Hospital. I have too much invested in my job to quit. At least we have parking lot storage. Still I work in a very large free fire area. The security guards are not armed, though there is a paid cop (one) in the ER.

  87. Right now it would be a violation of State and Federal law for me to carry at work so no gun for me. In lieu of that I have my EDC pocket knife and when at my desk a large marble many sides paper weight.

    I find it a bitter irony that I have a state permit to carry and have been required to qualify to carry a rifle and pistol at the federal level bur neither entity trusts me to do it at work in a uniform that singles me out for anyone who hates the government and wants to make a statement.

  88. You’ve just described the “security” set-up at the plant I work at–my employers go a step further in the disarmament route and forbid ANY weapons onsite, knives included, and claim the “right” to conduct searches of any vehicles on the parking lot at any time it pleases them (Arkansas doesn’t have a “parking lot” protection law despite repeated attempts in the legislature to pass one–damn Democrat-led committees kill it once it reaches them). To date they’ve yet to actually do so, though they do encourage our “security” to roam the parking lot and to write “parking violation citations” should they see any. Saw at least three tucked under wiper blades this morning on my way out. These citations don’t really mean anything legally, but they do end up as demerit points on one’s work record for the year. Get too many points, and it’s off to unemployment.

    Fortunately, I recall the age-old wisdom, “No one is ever truly unarmed.” At any given moment at work there are places of cover–the various machines on the production lines our management is so fond of–and routes of escape, and there’s usually enough pieces of broken pallets lying about to be re-purposed as stabbing weapons (people here are really lazy about cleaning the place up). Line operators also keep Chinese-made toolbags (complete with Taiwanese-made tools) with screwdrivers, punches, and hammers within arm’s reach–another source of weaponry. My pen can be used as a last-ditch stabbing/tearing weapon if it comes down to it, though that’s probably a good bet that I won’t be walking out the door that day.

    But it bears repeating–our employers issue our line operators toolbags made in the People’s Republic of China (commie China that we all know and “love”), and fill them with cheap-ass tools made in the Republic of China (Taiwan). Never doubt where a company’s loyalties lie–their bottom line. Everything else is expendable–including us.

  89. I thank the good Lord I was lucky enough to land a job in a gun store, so I get to open or concealed carry at my discretion while at work. Before that? Don’t ask, don’t tell.

  90. The greatest danger is the transition from your car to your work/mall/grocery/etc.

    If you ask me why I need to have a gun at work, I answer that it’s the transition to and from work that is most dangerous. I am not really worried about work.

    My employer states that any weapon is “strictly prohibited”. Yeah, well they don’t pay me enough to take on criminals hand to hand to and from my car. Their comfort versus my safety, they lose. They can fire me but they can’t bring me back from the dead.

  91. I previously worked as a pharmacy tech at a national chain that rhymes with “sight blade”. Strict no weapons policy for employees. Ignored it every single day I worked there, and I was not the only one. It wasn’t even a don’t ask don’t tell sort of thing among a number of us. Hell, the pharmacist (my boss) and I had at least 50 rounds of .45 ACP JHPs between us at our immediate disposal at any given moment, and we even had a number of predetermined plans of action in case of an armed robbery, which considering the $100k+ in OxyContin and other narcotic goodies of which we were the only thing standing between them and a criminal, it was not just a possibility, but a guaranteed eventuality that we would be in such a situation that only increased in likelihood with how long you are employed there. Thankfully, I never did in the year I slaved away as a government approved drug pusher for way too little money.

    Currently, I work for a chain of auto parts stores as a inter-store delivery driver, driving about 350 miles a day. Before that, I delivered to different garages around the area of my home store. Policy is the same, as is my course of action regarding said policy. Nobody notices my Sig P250 .45 medium frame I carry IWB at my 11 o’clock. Even so, I’m almost positive my boss knows I carry. Pretty much everyone in the company is a gun guy, so that definitely helps too.

  92. I go to school at a left coast university that definitely has no fondness for guns. They are they against school policy, and if you are caught with one you will be expelled with no degree, and still responsible for all the student loan debt. Add that to the neighboring elementary school, and I am in both state and federal GFSZ.

    So no, I have no guns on campus. However, I keep a 3.5″ folding blade in my pocket, and a can of bear spray in my backpack. For a while I carried a clip on mini-pepper spray on my belt, but I had problems with it coming off safe. Never sprayed, but it got close. So I have ditched that until I can find a more feasible on-body pepper spray carry option.

    I feel pretty confident that were there to be a school shooting, I could use the bear spray to cover my classroom door. As long as the school shooting didn’t nucleate from inside my classroom. And even then…

  93. In my last job they said how no weapons were allowed in the workplace. Immediatelly after that in the workplace policies, they mentioned how if there IS an active shooter(acknowledging their first rule will not prevent this) that you should run in a zig zag fashion as a moving target is harder to hit.

    It literally said that. I do not work their anymore and I don’t miss it at all!

  94. I quit, and now I work in an office where it is no big deal that I have a pistol on my person when I arrive and in my desk drawer while I am working.

  95. Now that I have been retired for lo. these many years, I can confess that when I worked for a federal land managing agency and had to spend a lot of time by myself out in the boonies (where one occasionally found a meth lab or pot farm with attendants), about 2-3 hours from the nearest sheriff (if I was lucky), I packed a compact .38 S&W revolver and extra rounds in a really nice-looking blue belt pack (it had a belt clip, not a fanny-pack belt.) The handgun was in an inconspicuous inner pocket, and I carried a Leatherman tool, butane lighter, emergency mylar blanket, granola bars, etc. in the pack. If anyone asked, it was my “emergency survival kit”, and I could pull out a few granola bars and the Leatherman tool to show them. Very innocuous. I had a concealed carry permit, so I was legal under state law. Oh yeah, I also never told ANYONE, ever, about carrying a gun. No matter how good a friend they were. “Two can keep a secret, if one of them is dead.”

    The penalty for carrying a gun while working was a minimum 30-day suspension without pay, and possibly dismissal. Weighing the alternatives, I decided that I preferred being fired than dead.

  96. I work on a military base, so the most I can carry is a small pocket knife (a simple Gerber knife with a half straight edged and half serrated blade) for opening packages that come in the mail. This has to suffice as my edged defense weapon as well. Carrying any kind of specialized defense knife would be a no-no. But I do keep it sharp enough to shave with and I know how to use it if I need to. That plus knowing a few good hiding places/ambush points and some paracord I keep to tie up doors and if needed set some trip wires if it is a shelter in place situation.

Comments are closed.