http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM4Ywx5zVgE
“A Mt. Morris man who made national headlines in 2007 with his assault weapons question for then-Presidential candidate Joe Biden is now asking the Genesee Valley shopping center to lift its ban on guns,” mlive.com reports. “Jered Townsend, 36, said the mall’s policy is ‘silly’ and that people who are legally able to do so should be able to open carry and have concealed weapons.” Alternatively, carry anyway? In most states, private property owners can only “accuse” a legally armed American of trespassing and ask them to leave. Done. Also alternatively, don’t go there. Or near there. (Criminals cruise mall parking lots.) Do your Christmas shopping online or in small stores. Or is that paranoid fantasy leading to avoidance behavior that robs parents and children of the joys of being in a crowd shopping for Xmas? Whatchugonnado?
Sadly my state is at least a few months away from CCW licenses. In my case, I do almost all my shopping online anyway. So much easier and cheaper.
Illinois?
FIB?
I shop at the mall in question from time to time. About half the entrance doors are marked no firearms. So carry concealed and go in a door that doesn’t have a sign.
I have noticed that almost every mall I have shopped at in Northern Virginia has the “Code of Conduct” sign prohibiting firearms only at entrances to common areas. Anchor stores don’t have the posting. As far as I am concerned if you don’t post at every entrance then you haven’t posted at all. Regardless all they can ask you to do is leave anyway. They are posting because their liability insurance requires it so they can’t be sued when someone shoots up the mall. I think gun rights advocates should press for legislation stripping them of immunity for posting the sign. Somebody told me that since they eliminated armed guards at Pentagon City there has been a series of smash grabs at jewelry stores. Serves them right. Every time my wife and I go to the mall we make a mockery of gun free zones.
Off topic. Former Virginia gubernatorial candidate and State Senator Creigh Deeds got stabbed by his son who then commuted suicide. Anybody want to bet that the press will focus on the gun instead of the knife he used to try to kill his father?
Mall shopping is all but dead so browsing a bunch of dying businesses with other bargain hunters is not the same atmosphere of mall happiness I had as a kid. I avoid malls because retail prices are ridiculous and once the food court in one is reduced to 5 restaurants you can’t really enjoy the experience.
Online shopping has swapped shipping with sales tax and made window shopping attractive as you can do it in pajamas. I avoid death traps on principle but there’s very little carrot left in the mall and lots of stick.
Exactly!
You saved me some typing.
Malls attract sheeple and wolves. I wouldn’t want to be in the way of their grazing
They also attract sh!t head kids who like to cause problems and try to step-up and be punks. I had a 13 something kid damn near sit on my lap as I was sitting on a couch and looking down to check text messages while my wife was purse shopping. Sole reason he did it is because he wanted to act “cute” in front of some girls. He damn near, in an instant, brushed up against my carry G19. Luckly. he didn’t. I very sternly asked if he and a “problem”. He just replied like a smug bast#rd, if he could sit there (trust me, it wasn’t innocent at all). The only thing I could do was get up and tell the store that they were harassing customers to the store clerk. I avoid malls because they suck, but now I have to be on alert for kids, because they may accidently discover my concealed gat while I’m minding my own business?
Yep.
What possible “joy” is there in being part of a teeming mass of humanity shoving and pushing each other to grab the last XBox One, only to wait in a communistically long line for the opportunity the pay for it?
My nearest mall is about an hour away, so what I save in gas will buy just a bit more ammo. Somewhere.
I go to shopping malls when it suits me. And when I go, I try NOT to look for any notices they have regarding firearms. If they discover that I am armed and ask me to leave, so be it.
In general I recommend whatever standard concealed carry sidearm people normally have. Closer to the holidays, I take my “notebook computer” with me in its case into crowded shopping malls. Of course my case does not hold a notebook computer at all but a pistol caliber carbine in .40 S&W. It weighs just four pounds and folds in half so it fits nicely and comfortably in a notebook computer carrying case even though it has a 16 inch barrel. That firearm definitely tips the odds back toward my favor if a small group of terrorists try to attack the mall while I am shopping. It normally takes me less than four seconds to unzip the case, pull out the carbine, unfold it, chamber a round, and bring it up to my shoulder.
Again, this doesn’t guarantee anything. All it does is give me a good fighting chance to get out alive and stop a few terrorists in the process. I’ll take that any day versus being unarmed and having no options at all.
Sub2000?
The Kel-Tec SUB-2000 is a nice little carbine.
Keep in mind that a 16 inch barrel launches .40 S&W bullets at the same velocities/energies as a .357 Magnum revolver with a four inch barrel. Thus you can expect something like 1350 fps with a 165 grain bullet. And if you like the lighter 135 grain bullet those zing out around 1650 fps.
Don’t go there. I wouldn’t go to someone’s house who didn’t want guns there, so why should I go to a business?
There’s a difference between a small family store and a shopping mall. If SCOTUS thinks it is permissible to invoke eminent domain to build a shopping mall, perhaps it should not be out of place to be able to exercise one’s 2nd Amendment rights in such a place.
Typical shopping decisions:
I need new tires. I used to shop at Sears when they had a sale. Sears is in the local mall. The local mall is a Simon mall. Simon officially bans carry in their malls [although I never saw signs posted in the local mall]. Sorry, Sears. There are other suppliers.
My grandchildren want art supplies. I used to shop at Moore’s. Moore’s is in the local mall. Etc., etc. Except that after that decision, I discovered the vast variety of art supplies on the internet, at better prices. Sorry, Moore’s.
Note that none of this reflects on the retailers themselves. I simply do not know what their policy is. But they are losing at least this customer because of the mall operators.
Interesting. My closest mall is the Tacoma Mall where there was an attempted mass shooting a few years ago (2006?). I think there were 6 wounded and none killed. At any rate, Tacoma Mall is also a Simon mall, but if they have ANY policy about no guns in the mall they are very circumspect about it. I have checked every time at every entrance and I have never seen a sign. If they have any other official policy they have certainly not gone to any great effort to make it known to the public.
Shortly after the Nairobi incident I went to the Food Court, then walked through the mall. It is, as I suspected, a death trap. The scariest thing to me, and I noticed it in the video above as well, is that everybody is walking around in total Condition White. The mall guards were all decked out in their spiffy uniforms and I could not see that they carried so much as a can of Mace. I will not go back unless there is a shop there that has something I want and can’t possibly get anywhere else.
I believe that if it was your intention to design and build a place that was ideal for a mass killing event, especially by a group of men, not a lone gunman, you could not come up with anything much more efficient than a crowded shopping mall. A close contender, and possible winner, would be an enclosed, gated, sports stadium.
There’s ONE store I shop at at our mall, and that’s because it has clothes that fit me and that I like that aren’t too pricey. Otherwise, screw the mall. ANd it’ll be 2014 before I’m back in it, because screw Christmas shopping rush
Carry. What’s the question again?
On my visit to Tacoma Mall that I mentioned above I went fully loaded for the first time in public: Ruger SR9c, 17 rounds and one in the chamber, plus the backup mag of 10 rounds. The entire time I was thinking that unless I was very close to an exit 28 rounds of 9mm against ANYONE with an AK or AR with a banana clip magazine thingy was going to seem like not nearly enough. Just how much ammo can or should you have to carry in order to do your holiday shopping?
Stay away from stupid people doing stupid things in stupid places. It looks like the local malls have now made that list.
One can only plan so much. 28 rounds should be enough.
I generally avoid the shopping malls. If I absolutely have to go, I carry concealed and ignore the signs-if there are any. Fortunately, I rarely need to go and do the bulk of my shopping at firearms friendly merchants.
The mall isn’t exactly a must-see destination for me, but sometimes I gotta go. For example, the local mall has the only Apple store within reasonable distance. In CO, signs do not carry weight of law, so I carry concealed. If I’m asked to leave I will, but if I carry right no one is the wiser. That’s the nice thing about…wait for it…concealed carry. In this case, anyway.
Malls aren’t that exciting anymore, anyway. Being more of an introvert, crowds aren’t all that appealing to me in the first place. Besides, once you’ve seen one store, you’ve seen the mall. Right?
This must vary by region/state. I can think of exactly 1 No Guns sign I’ve seen posted on private property here in Indiana. It was at a hospital.
When it comes to mall safety, or safety in general for that matter, one thing you should absolutely never do is think about the world view of your fellow shoppers. For instance, if they adhere to a religion wherein the central figure of that religion killed those who did not adhere to the religion, and told others to do likewise, and if to this day some of his followers are doing likewise, you should just forget about that.
Enjoy Black Friday!
No I don’t and it’s not because the main entry/exit are posted. I have certain stores I like to shop at and they are not in a mall.
Most stores where I live allow for OC/CCW. Except for the mall, have no fear of active shooters though: the ever vigilant mall security will talk them to death with their radios…
Don’t shop in Malls, get most things on-line or stand alone retail stores. Chistmas presents for husband, family are all gun related.
Real fucking men eh? Shooting people lying on the ground hiding. Pieces of fucking shit. Always have my gun, fuck the state laws.
I avoid the mall as much as possible, but for reasons other than any no-gun policy. Crowds, traffic, angry idiots, etc. It’s not worth my time or the spike in my blood pressure. I do my shopping at standalone local businesses when possible, online when it’s not.
I don’t even plan to leave the house on Black Friday. I plan to still be recovering from turkey coma.
I’d rather run a marathon in sandpaper underwear than shop at a mall.
Exorbitant prices, swirling masses of humanity during the high shopping season, parking that’s either too far away or non-existent, thugs hanging around at night figuring out reasons for me to shoot them — yes, the holiday spirit abounds at the mall. Forget it.
Carry or no carry, malls suck.
It’s not enforceable so I usually ignore the signs IF there is a reason for me to go into a mall. Very little reason exists. Holiday shopping online is one of the best things about the internet. In my family we create wish lists for each other to use. Most of the things on mine have links.
This particular situation in the article occurred in Michigan where the mall policy does carry force of law.
It does?
I’ve been in Michigan my entire life, I was under the impression that like so many other States you could only be accused of trespassing.
I’ve never even seen a “no guns” sign in Michigan.
In New York State, where My. Morris is, “No Gun” signs do not carry the weight of the law. The most they can do is ask you to leave. I ignore them and carry concealed.
Not too big on malls, since the advent of the Internet. Although, years ago I had a blow off job with a company whose office building had a skywalk connection to a major mall. Occasionally, I’d be bored as hell, long done with my work, and I’d sneak over for a long lunch hour and catch a matinee at the mall theater. I’d carry right into the theater because they didn’t have “30.06” signs posted.
In Texas, it’s trespassing to carry concealed in a business if the ownership has advised you that carrying is prohibited. That advisement is legally considered to have been effectively communicated if the business posts a “30.06” sign, named for the statute section that specifically details its wording and dimensions. Cute, huh? No sign, no deal (unless they instruct you personally and individually.) The little ghostbuster signs with the red circle with the red line through a gun in the center don’t count.
What you see sometimes are invalid signs, presumably to placate the clueless anti’s, while still allowing concealed carry.
Wow…I had no idea that mall had a gun ban. I was open carrying there literally one hour ago in the food court, a security guard walked right by me, no comment. I don’t suppose they enforce it very well…
Carry what you want, where you want. Better judged by twelve than carried by six.
This is why I never go to Nairobi anymore.
Anyone know how to symbolize a rim shot in ASCII?
None of the malls in my area ban concealed carry (no open carry), I take my kids there sometimes to get some Annie Anne’s pretzels and to play in the play area. The mall is a two-gun-minimum place for me, if I can’t carry, I don’t go.
That being said, I have nothing against open carry, I won’t ever do it, but I don’t see a problem with it.
I operate under the threat your gun like your peaker policy, everyone knows you got it, but that doesn’t mean everyone wants see it outside of your pants.
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