“Publicly, the NRA of today now forcefully (if fancifully) decries expanded background checks as a backdoor to a national gun registry, and, from there, nationwide gun confiscation,” Florida gun owner Adam Weinstein writes at The Trace. “But its actions behind the scenes suggest that the group either regards constitutional carry as a bridge too far, or is willing to abide lawmakers who just aren’t ready to take the leap.”
Weinstein’s evidence of NRA foot-dragging on Constitutional Carry is scant, but the point remains: the nation’s oldest civil rights organization isn’t actively promoting permitless carry (or punishing otherwise gun rights-friendly pols who oppose it). Should it? Or is the NRA’s realpolitik policy of pushing national reciprocity the wisest and most realistic course of action to restore American gun rights?
Yes. Absolutely. The winning must continue.
This.
Yes.
I’m no policy strategist, but it could be the NRA feels that getting national reciprocity is the first step towards permitless carry. Whether that is their plan or not, yes they need to promote it. Hard to really say we have true firearms freedom when you can be arrested for simply possessing your gun in public.
I agree. There is a practical progression toward said goal. But perhaps…
A carry permit crossing state lines is easily justified as within congress authority.
If they passed a constitutional carry bill, states like CA and NY would take it all the way to the Supreme Court.
Congress enacting constitutional carry (an intra-state activity), it could be challenged, ironically, by statists on the grounds that congress is exceeding its authority.
that name…It just says so much about you.
Funny you mention his name as just last night I accidentally dropped something and used it as an expletive!
Let’s get national reciprocity and end “gun free zones” first. Once New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts and Commifornia are beat down. then we can move forward. I am a 2A Absolutists, but we must move forward pragmatically.
“possessing your gun in public.”
Perhaps we should be calling this concept “bearing arms”!?
Swilson- “…it could be the NRA feels that getting national reciprocity is the first step towards permitless carry.”
Newsflash for all aging NRA members: the Greyhound bus trip to NRA HQ has been canceled. The old folks home has determined that unelected staff runs NRA, and they don’t care what you think.
There is no Master Plan at NRA HQ.
As of spring 2013, Chuck Cunningham at NRA/ILA had no idea whatsoever that NRA state lobbyist Todd Vandermyde cut a deal with the anti-gun IL Chiefs of Police to place Duty to Inform in Illinois concealed carry bill. Cunningham is supposed to be over State & Local Affairs. In reality, he cannot watch fifty state lobbyists.
If you have a dishonest lobbyist like Vandermyde “working for us” at the local level, this is what you get. Maybe that’s why he’s a contract lobbyist paid by 1099, it gives NRA plausible deniability. For sure NRA hasn’t conducted a criminal background check on Donald Todd Vandermyde, or he would be fired immediately.
So you get as many Life, Endowment, etc. members as you can find and start a petition to get a real advocate in the position and the jerk thrown out.
Roy- $100 reward for anyone who can supply a complete list of the names of the elected NRA directors (not staff) on the Legislative Policy committee.
I haven’t found that info. available anywhere from NRA. It’s an old boys country club with a mentality firmly cemented in Mad Men circa 1962. I picture them swigging highballs at NRA HQ as they laugh at the stupidity of the geriatric members that continue to send them money and wave the flag.
Yes. Next question.
Having the advantage of being a citizen of Vermont where there is no such thing as a gun permit and also having the lowest violent crime rate of any state in the union, I think national reciprocity is the only way to go. It may get the liberal anti 2A politicians knickers in a twist, but NYC and other areas of the country will ultimately be safer if the criminals have second thoughts about committing mayhem on a formerly disarmed populace. They’re usually surprised when they attempt to rob someone at gun point and end up getting themselves removed from the gene pool instead…
I completely agree, national reciprocity is the first step. Criminals may think twice before committing a crime if there’s a chance their victim could be armed.
Fully agree that the Second should be our gun permit. Unfortunately, life doesn’t work like that. People’s Republic states are harsh on those they see as violators. Lives and employment can be ruined, futures marred, even families disrupted if one violates the statutes of an anti gun state.
As to hellholes like Chicago, NYC, and West Coast, plus anti civil liberties cities and states elsewhere, don’t forget that things will get nastier before they get better. One major problem is that cultures matter. Urban underclsss culture takes a different toll on people and legislation.. We’re not in bucolic Vermont any more , Toto.
“Should the NRA Promote National Constitutional Carry?”
yes, unless “fighting for your rights” is more important than actually stopping the mf’s that are preventing their exercise.
They want to ensure that we ‘continue to have a seat at the discussion table’.
I want them (and will pay cash) to have them have the ability to say STFU once to gun-grabbers and anti-gunners, and then not have to say it again.
This ^^^^
This constant, wearing, grinding battle to retain, maybe lose, then regain a basic human right of self defense is just imbecilic beyond belief. But there doesn’t seem to be any way to just. say. no. and have it stick. What would be great would be to have some uber governmental document that had a rule in it that says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. (oh wait.)
Unfortunately, no matter how clearly that right is articulated, the gun banners keep trying to batter it down, again and again, year after year. Even if we’re able to seat an originalist USSC, and they definitively and explicitly rule that the 2A means what it says, we will STILL have leftist legislators who continue to pass blatantly unconstitutional laws to infringe it.
The best way to combat all this would be to disband Congress entirely, and roll back all laws to where we stood in about 1930. They can convene once a year for about a month to pass a Federal budget and pass out participation medals to one another, then go back to their conniving in the financial and legal world. Just barely being facetious here….
I like this idea. It’s actually not that radical. Not even Anarchist.
Do we need more laws? Really?
TX legislature only meets every 2 years if I’m not mistaken.
I think everyone at the NRA (both leaders and members) looks forward to the day when its political activities are no longer necessary and will celebrate shifting its focus to building ranges, sponsoring competitions and shooter education programs.
Lawyers never want to see an end to the conflict that enriches them. Members want the argument settled as per “shall not be infringed”, but the leadership makes its living in court.
Even if tomorrow SCOTUS declared unanimously that “shall not be infringed” has the same absolute grammatically as “shall have no other gods”, the lawyers would still have plenty to do for half a generation anyway, as lower courts would have to work out things such as whether zoning laws can exclude a shooting range, whether a county court house must provide safe and secure storage for the arms of those entering, if at sixteen years of age a person is a member of the militia then can a law forbidding handguns before twenty-one stand…..
The litigation isn’t gong to go away; the lawyers would just have to shift gears.
Wood- “Lawyers never want to see an end to the conflict that enriches them. Members want the argument settled as per “shall not be infringed”, but the leadership makes its living in court.” True.
Comment of the month when it comes to how NRA works. Here in Illinois NRA initially tried to sabotage McDonald v. Chicago. Alan Gura’s suit was funded by Alan Gottlieb & SAF, which to their credit actually try to win cases. After Gura took Otis to SCOTUS and won, NRA lawyers were later awarded $1.3 MILLION in legal fees from the city of Chicago.
The Borg Cube at NRA HQ has now morphed and shape-shifted. They realize that using blacks like Otis as fronts for their lawsuits and then later selling them out creates the worst possible bills that can be fought in the courts for years, and also creates job security for lobbyists like Todd Vandermyde to “fix” the shit bills they put up in the first place.
Yes. They should also promote repeal of the NFA, GCA, LEOPA and UFA. Signing on to all of these should be the requirement for an A, not defending the status quo.
Yes. But, NRA knows how to play the game, which is one step at a time.
That right there.
If we make a sudden leap to the end goal (nationwide constitutional carry), what’s left for anyone to donate for?
Same concept with any business, really…. take baby steps, so you’re maximizing profits at every level along the way.
CueBalls- “If we make a sudden leap to the end goal (nationwide constitutional carry), what’s left for anyone to donate for?”
Are you starting to grow brain tissue about how NRA stays in business?
Last week you were groveling about how Illinois state Rep. Brandon Phelps and NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde did the best they could in their carry bill. Hmmm, I’m going to have to keep my eye on you. You may at least have the brain power of a central Illinois plains dweller, someplace like Bloomington or Champaign.
straight ignored.
“One step at a time” WAS the way, The demtard game was rejected in Nov. NOW the way to go is handgrenades and all in.
Yes, but it may be more than we could chew. Let’s just get reciprocity enacted and the NFA removed first.
Barring a landmark SCOTUS ruling, this fight is won with many small wins at the local, state, and federal level. Focusing on a big bang victory is foolish when your opponent is focused on making first downs and moving the gun control ball towards the goal line. Gun grabbers have been focused in the right places and that’s the states within the 9th circuit where they notch up court wins much easier than other circuits. Now, if Ginsburg leaves the court in the next three years, there is the very real possibility that the wrongs of the 9th circus court can be undone in that landmark SCOTUS ruling.
Promote ‘National Constitutional Carry’ only *after* SCOTUS rules carry outside the home is a constitutionally protected right…
That makes perfect sense. The Court hinted at in Heller, but the anti-Circuits and the Mass. Supreme Court (which said that if SCOTUS intended to include carry outside the home it had to say so more explicitly) have been undermining both Heller and the right by using a sliding scale “intermediate review” that is so close to complete deference to “public safety” as an ace in the hole justifying all infringements, that establishing a right–even if it is a right to carry openly–is critical to establishing everything else. Peruta v. Gore (San Diego) has a pending petition for cert that raises this very issue. The petitioners contend that there is a right to carry–and that only thing a state can do is determine whether it would prefer concealed carry or open carry.
As a practical matter, as exemplified by the “open unloaded” carriers in California who drew wide-spread police attention and 911 calls, and the poster earlier today who had a doctor call the police because he had an EMPTY holster, many “ban” states, if forced to a choic,e will adopt “shall issue” laws–better that this “evil” practice be carried on in secret than exposed to anyone and everyone walking down the street, many of who (in some places) will be horrified by the sight of a GUN!!!
Yeah they should. Not holding my breath. And I doubt places like Illinois where I live will ever honor Constitutional carry. But LOTS of “never been done befo’ ” things are occurring at a rapid pace…
I presume the question is “constitutional CONCEALED carry”. If so, then I think it’s bad public relations; and, we must remember that our primary battle is with voters, not our elected/appointed governors.
We must learn, understand and recognize the environment in which we live; and, it is not friendly toward guns. If we had the public overwhelmingly on our side then we wouldn’t have a problem. Notice, we have a problem; and, that is an indication that the public is NOT YET overwhelming on our side. They are going our way; but they aren’t there yet.
The “driver’s license” analogy (though flawed) works in our favor for national reciprocity of CWPs. We are making our case here, and must continue to do so.
I can see using “constitutional OPEN carry” as a legislative CLUB to hold over the heads of recalcitrant Democrats. The bulk of the best legal thinking is that “open carry” is “THE” “Right . . . bear arms”. So, the Progs will have a tough time fighting us all the way to SCOTUS if Congress dared to pass a “constitutional OPEN carry” law.
Moreover, Article 1 Section 8 empowers Congress to “arm” the “militia”. Congress has determined that all able-bodied men ages 17 – 45 comprise the “unorganized militia”. If Congress dared to invoke it’s A1/S8 power to declare all (2A-able) able-bodied men 18 – 45 (or 21 – 45) authorized to openly-carry arms, SCOTUS would have a really tough time explaining why such a law were unconstitutional.
Congressmen promoting such a bill could argue that, in the age of jihad, it is important that the unorganized militia be free to muster at sensitive locations (the town square, schools) spontaneously in case of the alarm: “Stop Jihadi!”
The point of considering such a campaign for “constitutional OPEN carry” would be to push the Democrats and the courts into acquiescing to relatively incremental measures (National Reciprocity for CWPs, easing GFZs, etc.) If the Democrats and courts won’t acquiesce, a simple majority of each chamber of Congress plus Trumps signature could force a “nuclear option” – i.e., a very broad OPEN-carry law – upon them; something which they could not stop. (I do not suggest that we would ALL go about with AR-15’s slung on our shoulders or Glocks at our side. Yet, we all COULD do so if we wished, and a few of us WILL do so much to the temporary consternation of the citizens of the blue States.) The very last thing the Progs want is for open carry to be observed to be common-place in the town square. Therefore, they would find it preferable to acquiesce to National Reciprocity and other relaxations of gun control laws.
“Moreover, Article 1 Section 8 empowers Congress to “arm” the “militia”. Congress has determined that all able-bodied men ages 17 – 45 comprise the “unorganized militia”. If Congress dared to invoke it’s A1/S8 power to declare all (2A-able) able-bodied men 18 – 45 (or 21 – 45) authorized to openly-carry arms, SCOTUS would have a really tough time explaining why such a law were unconstitutional. ”
That’s a really interesting approach. But we’d have to be open to an amendment requiring all arms not in use to be secured, under the authority to establish discipline for the militia — not a biggie, really, since that’s just good sense.
No. The Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowskis of the world will load up any such bill with ten steps back worth of compromises (mag limits, new fees, extra training mandates?). Then when the Dems retake power, the compromises will stay while reciprocity will get converted to opt-in, which is exactly what we have now pre-compromises.
If this is a constitutional issue, and it is, then let’s let the Supreme Court decide it, once Gorsuch is seated and one of the others is replaced.
Remember, or look it up if you were too young, the last big federal foray into protecting your interstate gun rights was 1986’s Firearms Owner Protection Act. Now, you can STILL be arrested by state authorities while lawfully travelling with your firearm, despite that law’s alleged protections. Meanwhile, no machine guns for you, unless you plop down many thousands of dollars, and no post-1986 machine guns for you at any price.
No thanks.
People like you are why we’re in this mess with damaged gun rights to being with.
Kindly turn in your rights at the door and GTFO.
Yes Jonathan, “people like you” not people like Noishkel, are the problem. Just trust the unelected staff at NRA HQ to do the thinking for you, they know what’s best.
That’s how we got our “NRA backed” carry bill in Illinois with criminal penalties and Duty to Inform, because the police unions wanted it.
You should make an effort to stop thinking for yourself and conform to the group (as defined by Noishkel here) your independence and exercise of logic is making him feel insecure. You’re not from around here, are you boy?
straight ignored.
This topic is about nationwide constitutional carry, not national reciprocity.
How would added costs, training, mag limits etc get tacked onto a law which, by its very definition supports the “shall not be infringed” language of the constitution? No training, no fees, no license, etc.
Easily. The ban states would pass NJ like laws mandating training and a permit application just to BUY a gun, after which you would be free to openly carry. But since the police in NJ feel free to fail to process applications within the state law mandated 30 day period, usually, from what I’ve read, taking six months to a year instead, the states could effectively, and within the scope of its police powers, decide WHO could get a gun and WHEN. Further, you would see a slew of misdemeanors being bumped up to crimes that resulted in loss of gun rights, which I think California has already done. And the police in all major metropolitan areas would manage to find some excuse to arrest anyone having the temerity to actually carry, for example, “disturbing the peace,” “contempt of cop,” or some other invented offense. Just as the NYPD does in ignoring FOPA.
Mark- Don’t waste your time trying to explain how the real world works to CueBalls.
He represents the dimwit element from downstate Illinois that sold out Otis McDonald to the anti-gun police unions, and ended up with twelve million people in the state being subject to the worst possible carry bill that NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde could dream up.
Now you can see what we’re dealing with around here. Right now these clowntards think Illinois has a “shall-issue” bill. Moonshine consumption has retarded their ability to read past third grade levels. Spare yourself the frustration, these people will never be more than what they are.
Unapologetically and with all due legal, financial, and moral force !
Politically destroy all politicians who resist or foot drag.
Agreed. The GOP Congress should have had a Gun Owners Bill of Rights on Trump’s desk on Day One, ready to sign.. there are no Democrats in the way. Why the wait? Why, Republicans, aren’t you getting your work done?
yes please! Tired of breaking the law every time i wear a jacket.
Why in the HELL is that even a question?
Nah I believe in State’s rights
Yes it should, one way or another.
Yes! And the NRA could finance the National Constitutional Carry campaign by staging unicorn rides and bigfoot hunts all over this nation.
Though I have been a member of the NRA for over (most of) 50 years I feel that they are not nearly aggressive enough in their posture RE the 2A. What I would like to see is a total undoing of every single libritard regulation that has ever been implemented over the years. NO background checks for anyone. No restrictions on purchasing and receiving through the mail. No restrictions on any firearms, if you want a 50 BMG minigun, a cannon, and M1 Abrams, go for it!
Shall not be infringed means what it says, and that is all that it says.
If the NRA actually won, they would go out of business. They will continue to promote concealed carry primarily, since that is complicated and gives police unions control over who can carry.
Plus, the police state benefits from unlimited privacy waivers like what NRA did in Illinois’ 2013 concealed carry bill. The criminal police state loves “working” with the NRA in order to keep tabs on all you unruly Tea Party types.
The NRA would still have plenty to do if SCOTUS decided that “shall not be infringed” is as absolute as “Shall not have other gods”. It’s the PR firm La Pierre has running the place that would have to worry — but only if they lack imagination.
Consider an NRA program to arm people in high-crime areas who can’t afford their own arms — I’d b more likely to donate to that than to their lobbying efforts! Just doing that one thing, the NRA could keep its current budget for the next forty years; it would just spend it differently.
Roy- “It’s the PR firm La Pierre has running the place…”
Very few members are aware of the role of the Ackerman McQueen advertising agency at NRA. Illinois state lobbyist Todd Vandermyde claims that Shannon Alford is his “boss'” but some men say that she is an Ackerman employee.
“Consider an NRA program to arm people in high-crime areas who can’t afford their own arms…”
NRA is a fundamentally racist org. They impeded and interfered with the McDonald v. Chicago lawsuit, and then let their state lobbyist Todd Vandermyde place Duty to Inform in the Illinois carry bill, which is basically Stop-and-Frisk for blacks in Chicago and Cook County.
NRA is running a successful race hustle in Illinois: use blacks like Otis McDonald, Shawn Gowder and Rhonda Ezell as fronts for lawsuits, the sell them out in their bills, with the help of clowntards like Richard Pearson from ISRA (state tumor of NRA) plus the racist hicks from southern Illinois.
As another commenter pointed out today: Vermont.
‘Nuff said.
Short answer: Not yet. Incrementalism works. Every time gun rights are expanded for peaceful, law abiding citizens without the bloodbath predicted by the anti-gunners, our case for continued expansion gets stronger.
There’s no need for incrementalism now: the government is all GOP, even down to the state house level. No need to equivocate, no need for compromise. Republicans, on the gun rights you promised us, just get it done.
Ok, I don’t get this at all. National “Constitutional Carry” already exists. In many of the states, those constitutions prohibit government from restricting the carry of firearms. NRA is often involved in efforts to roll-back limits on firearms, at state and federal level. What is it that some sort of “national constitutional carry” effort is supposed to get us? Mere legislation that says, “The constitution means what it says? Mere legislation? The only way to obtain unrestricted “gun rights” is through the courts. We have been there, done that. Ended up with “reasonable restrictions”? What new argument is there? What untried wrinkle will get the SC to overturn decades of gun restrictions? The had their chance, and punted. What is different now? A new justice will not be enough to get cert at the SC.
2018 elections are nearer than you think: there’s but a small window of opportunity to get a national Bill of Rights for Gun Owners passed. Now is not the time to get lazy or back down. Now is not the time to get all mealy-mouthed with compromise to the anti-gun crazies. Opportunity knocks but we have to open the door.
I agree with Sam I Am on this.
We already have Constitutional carry in the United States … and yet various federal, state, and local governments have ordered their police, prosecutors, judges, and juries to send people to prison for keeping and bearing arms — in direct contravention of the United States Constitution which is the Supreme Law of the Land.
What we should be asking is how to motivate all of those offending politicians, bureaucrats, police, deputies, prosecutors, bailiffs, and judges to stop violating the Supreme Law of the Land.
common- Are you seriously pontificating on national legislation? You live in Illinois, right? How about you and the rest of the Richard Pearson types at ISRA get busy removing the public transit ban from Illinois’ carry bill? Maybe start with that? You guys really care about black people in Chicago like Otis McDonald don’t you?
That’s right I forgot, you and the rest of the Larry the Cable Guy clowns with camo hats don’t ride CTA buses in Chicago, you drive your monster trucks everywhere. Grow out your beard for the IGOLD March of the HIcks- 2017. You should be able to walk the two blocks, if your gout isn’t acting up. Let us know what great victories the hick posse comes up with next.
Constitutional carry should be the ONLY goal. Once that’s established it would be hard to roll back.
National reciprocity could easily end up like drivers’ licenses. Think that’s a good thing? Ask anyone you know who drives a truck if the state issuing a CDL has 2 cents input in the licensing standards anymore. How hard is it to envision the (always bigger) government deciding to mandate “minimum” issuance standards for CCW?
zaphod- NRA members are mostly the nursing home crowd. If you told them that FDR knew Pearl Harbor was going to be bombed by the Japs, they would have a stroke. Institutions like NRA are paternal, to be trusted to take care of them like the Great Society programs of the 1930s. It will be great, when “the greatest generation” dies off.
Any sort of national reciprocity, etc. will be highjacked and morphed over time just like CDLs as you said. I predict mandatory on demand (of cops) drug and alcohol testing, background check conducted by FBI, and national license issued and administered by ATF. Have a law enforcement objection to your national carry license? Hire a lawyer for $3,000 and fly to D.C. for your “administrative hearing” with ATF investigators.
National reciprocity is a trap and a Trojan Horse, that’s why NRA will promote it with the collusion of police unions.
Start with the 25-meter target and work your way back to the harder ones. Hearing protection act and national reciprocity are good 25-50m targets. I’d put Constitutional Carry somewhere around 200-250m, with 100% 2A restoration at 300m. If nothing else, they’re moving in the right direction.
Why all the baby steps? The GOP owes us big time so now it’s time they did what we hired them to do. We’re not paying the Republicans to pu$$yfoot around with our gun rights, we elected them to act swiftly and decisively.
Have you learned nothing since 2010? Republican party leaders in the House and Senate have consistently told new members that their job was to get elected in order to give the party majority. Now that they were actually sworn in, their job was to get more repubs elected, not change anything. Same in 2014 and 2016. The job of those who voted for repub majority are not “owed” anything. Electing majorities was YOUR JOB ! Your reward for doing your job was to have repub majorities everywhere, ana a “repub” president. Go sit in your own pew, and let the professionals handle things; like always.
– No irony intended.
The Republicans are of no use unless they produce. I’m not interested in merely maintaining idle do-nothing Republican majorities. I expect action. I demand results. I expect the Republicans to earn my vote, not just sit on their behinds all day.
They have already earned your vote. Nowhere else to go that will get you anything. Pay the admission, and watch the movie, or stay home. With a two party system, where both elites went to the same schools, where both elites will replace you with someone else as soon as they have your vote, this is the ballgame. Protest votes hand the victory to the worser. To borrow from Walter Cronkite, “And that’s the way it is, Wednesday, February 7th, 2017.”
That needs to be changed, too. DO away with congressional districts and elect representatives statewide, perhaps voting by party, and the two-party system would suddenly be in trouble. Make it that way in California, and instead of a House delegation with two parties, they’d have one with eight or so; most other large states would suddenly have six.
And we could even get regional parties under such a system — say, the Square State Party, for those western states with corners, or the Left Coast Party, for all the liberals who are Democrats only because they’re trapped in the two-party system, or the River Party, for states along the Big M.
After a few cycles where the House had fewer and fewer Democrats and Republicans, the Senate would start to crack as well. And suddenly the professional establishment party cores would no longer be able to coerce everyone to playing their way, because there would be options.
Sounds like a recommendation for a parliament, with proportional representation. Looking at Canada as the closest proxy, is that what you would want?
Talk about minority party presidents.
It wouldn’t be a parliament because each state would still have its own delegation. And I doubt we’d see many more minority-party presidents than we already get, though we might get multiple-party presidents.
Why all the baby steps? The GOP owes us big time so now it’s time they did what we hired them to do. We’re not paying the Republicans to pu$$yfoot around with our gun rights, we elected them to act swiftly and decisively.
I wasn’t around for the Hughes amendment to get voted through, but from my understanding, the NRA said they’d fight that in court. Something about taxing constitutionally protected rights being against the law? I don’t know, I’m just a dumb gun owner.
I’d like to see easier access to things we should already have.
YES
MCDONALD ET AL. v. CITY OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS, incorporated the the Second Amendment as applying to the states under 14th Amendment Due Process. Just exactly what the scope of that decision is remains the realm of future cases.
Southerner- NRA at first tried to sabotage Alan Gura’s case with Otis McDonald, it was funded by SAF, not NRA. Months before Gura got oral arguments in front of SCOTUS in 2010, NRA hired insider former Solicitor General Paul Clement to barge into the McDonald case and steal ten minutes from Gura’s thirty minute oral argument time.
When the 7th Circuit U.S. Federal Appeals Court in Chicago totally overturned Illinois’ FIFTY YEAR ban on concealed weapons, it was NRA state lobbyist Todd Vandermyde that placed Duty to Inform in the “NRA backed” carry bill, because DTI mostly affects black people in Chicago like Otis McDonald.
NRA, Inc. used and betrayed Otis McDonald, and they will sell out every member they have until the baby boomers that pay them die off.
Timing is everything.
It is a right.
One of the mistakes the Left makes is assuming the “goodness” of their course is sufficient.
So treading lightly and patiently to the desired end is the better tact.
Consider if one wins by bludgeon then you can lose the same way. (Executive Orders)
Make it the way of the land by slowly making the point appear normal and harmless, then to reverse it would require the majority of people change what to them is everyday status quo.
The NRA political portion operates similar to shooting a 45 ACP 1911 one handed and limp wristed. Scared and prone to malfunction.
Michael- Good one! Here’s what happened in Illinois:
State Rep. Brandon Phelps first concealed carry bill which failed in May 2011 had immediate Duty to Inform w/ criminal penalties just like Ohio, supplied by NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde.
After the 7th Circuit U.S. Federal Appeals Court in Chicago totally overturned Illinois’ FIFTY YEAR ban on concealed weapons in 2012, Vandermyde went right back in and placed Duty to Inform in Phelps “NRA backed” carry bill, because the anti-gun police unions wanted it. Chris Cox & Chuck Cunningham at NRA/ILA knew what Vandermyde was doing, and did nothing to stop him.
NRA, Inc., is the org that used and betrayed Otis McDonald and twelve million people in Illinois.They will sell out every member in America, until they go out of business.
Pushing for national Constitutional Carry could backfire with a Constitutional ruling doing away with such Carry in many States! The minute that is passed it will get challenged all the way to the Supreme Court and there is not much precedent in favor of Constitutional Carry.
Not yet. National reciprocity will put great pressure on “may issue” states and virtual “no issue” counties (and Hawaii) to grant carry rights to their own citizens, since all the visitors can be armed but not the people who live there. Once “shall issue” is firmly embedded, the anti-gun culture will fade when it is determined–as it has in all the other states that have shall issue–that CCW holders are rarely criminally inclined. That the typical aphorism “more guns equals more gun crime” is a fallacy.
The issue is a cultural one. After the West Was Won, many Americans simply stopped openly carrying handguns. There was a period when pocket or vest pistols was the rage, but that pretty much died out with the repeal of the 18th Amendment. People stopped seeing guns regularly, particularly in the large urban areas. Rural ares still saw lots of shotguns and rifles in gun racks, even in my childhood, but even that practice diminished over time. so when city people see someone with a gun who is not in uniform, they allow their irrational fears to overcome their senses, and they call the police. They simply “don’t see the sense” in people carrying guns. So we have to reintroduce guns slowly to desensitize the large number of people who suffer fear and anxiety. Otherwise we are asking for a HUGE back lash.
“Should the NRA Promote National Constitutional Carry?”
Yes, but they never will, because NRA, Inc. benefits from pushing the most complicated and crummy gun bills they can, especially concealed carry. Winning is not in the NRA vocabulary, the goal of NRA and any bloated bureaucracy is continued existence.
As a person in the know explained, “the NRA is a fund-raising organization that is concerned with gun rights.” The NRA is not your friend, it’s a self-propelled behemoth lurching forward from the 1960s, like most of it’s members.
Then the effort needs to be made to point out the benefit to gun owners if the NRA actually won: instead of focusing on legislation and courts, they could focus on organizing legitimate local militias, with competitions between them, with the aim of having national shooting sports competitions on the same level as existing professional sports. Running a nation-wide professional league would keep their money flow handily.
Roymond- Agreed. It would be great if NRA returned to it’s roots and promoted training, etc. But all orgs (and governments) expand and corrupt over time.
NRA lawyers made $1.3 MILLION in legal fees on the McDonald v. Chicago case, when at first they didn’t support Alan Gura.
The Borg Cube at NRA HQ has now morphed and thirsts for more black plaintiffs like Otis McDonald, Shawn Gowder and Rhonda Ezell to use and betray as they have in Illinois.
What part about “bearing arms” don’t they get? If Congress was behing permitless carry – it is allowed in some states, i.e., it should be in all states. Just like the right for women to vote or anti slavery laws. The fed guarentees those rights to US residents and the states should not be able to change them.
If you choose to move into a private enclave that has a no firearm agreement, that is your right to do so. If you were there first and then the people wanted that, you, and anyone who lives in your property should be able to carry without hindrence.
You have to limit your own rights or choose to, to lose them. Other than that, you should be able to carry any time and anywhere you choose.
Yes, and it should insist that in any such legislation the following be included: “that the phrase ‘shall not be infringed’ allows no more deviation from its intent than the phrase ‘shall not have other gods'”. Grammatically the two are equivalent, and that needs to be set down firmly.
Is would say three things.
First, state’s rights issues will be brought up. Personally I find this argument convincing because I’m more of an originalist. However, the 14A incorporation doctrine is a thing and it could be applied to the 2A. C’est la vie.
Second, the proper way to do this is to take a page from the progressive playbook and take the steps you can when you can, constantly returning for another bite at the apple.
Third, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. Mutliple approaches can be pursued at the same time. Put the antis on their heals where you can and let the reality sink in on the public that rivers of blood don’t flow when law abiding citizens are armed. From there push forward where you can.
IMHO, the root of nearly every problem we have right now is due to the educational system that the progs have infested. We need to fix that or winning battles now only delay our inevitable loss to masses of peoe who have been effectively brainwashed by a system that indoctrinated them, denied them the truth and purposefully denied them critical thinking skills.
Wholly agree about educating the public and maintaining a positive image being necessary to win in the long run
Hell Ya!
It will make the left heads implode more.
I think the NRA needs to focus on getting SCOTUS to once and for all gut gun control. As those cards fall, if necessary, a national carry approach might be necessary, but until you can stop the states from having wildly varying requirements, I think it’s a bridge to far.
The ultimate goal needs to be unlimited carry and possession for all that are not convicted felons (and somehow figure out what to do with those potentially mentally unstable without that turning into an anti-gun method of control) across the US, that may be hard to pass.
Then again, with a conservative majority, now is the time to strike on legislative matters. Losing part of the legislative branch (house or senate) would still mean legislation would not be up for discussion in the future.
There are 11.5 months left to get anything at all accomplished. Starting 01Jan18, it is election mode, everyday, all day.
The trick is going to be getting judges who consider “shall not be infringed” to be as absolute as “shall not have other gods” while also getting ones who will uphold liberty in matters of speech and religion. We don’t need any more idiot messes like Citizens United, which was the most correct while being the most ludicrously argued decision in the history of the Republic.
If the reason is realpolitik, then it’s a good strategy – after all, it’s obviously working.
They should be pushing the Constitution.
Article IV, Section 1:
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
My driver’s license works in every state. My marriage license works in every state. Why then, doesn’t my concealed handgun LICENSE do the same?
The only gun rights org that promoted Constitutional carry was JPFO. Since Arron died the issue has become moot. These gun rights people will NEVER promote Constitutional carry, they are in bed with the elected and LEO’s, they want permits, so they know who to go after when the time comes.
Darkwing- “…they are in bed with the elected and LEO’s, they want permits, so they know who to go after when the time comes.” True.
When NRA state lobbyist for Illinois Todd Vandermyde cut the deal with the anti-gun IL Chiefs of Police for Duty to Inform in spring 2011, Tim McCarthy of Orland Park was president of the IL Chiefs lobby. Tim McCarthy was a Secret Service agent when President Reagan was shot, and has been promoting gun control with Jim & Sarah Brady for thirty years.
Most NRA members in Illinois are from all-white small towns south of Joliet, and they can’t conceive that the police will come after them if gun seizure laws are passed in the future.
Most of the inbred clowntards have never been in the military, so there is no way they can understand what the privacy waiver and background check is all about. What you are talking about is like trying to speak English with the monkeys at Lincoln Park Zoo.
These are the losers who send money to NRA.
NRA has always taken the slow approach. They are a mainstream organization that tries to get money from the largest amount of people possible. If that means they have to cater to FUDDs, they will cater to FUDDs. That being said, I’ll still support them cause they do more way more good than bad. Also, their mere existence pisses off progressives and I like that.
Question of the Day: Should the NRA Promote National Constitutional Carry? – The Truth About Guns http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/02/robert-farago/question-day-nra-promote-national-constitutional-carry/
No way. Every crime committed by someone with a gun will be blamed on it. Anti-gunners would have a field
day. Within 5-10 years, no guns. Do not need a crystal ball to see that. This is the beginning of the end and we are giving it to them. And just what is wrong with a back ground check? A crazy can be processed for not having a permit and help get him off the street plus we do not get blamed for it. My wife and family are too important to have a unqualified nut carry a gun. If the NRA does not get it together I will not renew and with tons of others I suspect. So we can also say good bye to the NRA also.
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