In the SIG SAUER Academy instructional video below we learn how to draw with our support hand — from a big ass holster attached to a belt that slides sideways like a dog slipping on ice. (Defeating a retention holster, no less.) And how to get the gun ready to shoot. Not bloody likely, I’d say. Either in terms of . . .

needing to do so or being able to do so. I mean, it’s an interesting technique and all. Noted and logged. But I don’t consider it a high priority given my limited training time (which somehow doesn’t overlap with reading, Netflix watching, cooking, etc.).

That said, I bought a carry gun with a rear sight jutting out enough to enable a shoe rack (the process, not the wardrobe). I carry a reload and know how to use it. Still, I’m nowhere operator enough to operate operationally. You?

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82 COMMENTS

    • Hell yeah.

      Who discloses their true level of operatorness on an internet forum. The NSA be all up in this bitch.

      pffftt.

  4. If you anticipate such a scenario where this ridiculously impractical, utter laughable move might be needed, then just go ahead and carry a second sidearm on your support side and practice presentation directly.

    • Pretty much. If you’ve somehow managed to end up with both the injury preventing a normal draw and conversely the time and distance to execute this laughable maneuver, you’re having one strange gunfight.

      Like I’ve often said; if you enjoy this stuff, go for it, but don’t embarrass yourself and insult everyone’s intelligence by pretending it has practical applications or somehow improves your survivability in a fight.

      I used to be operator as f#$k. Now I’m a middle aged guy with more practical things to do and a much better, more accurate understanding of the threats I actually face.

      I also know better than to mess with people, and I’m still better armed and trained than I could conceivably need to be for where I am and what I do.

      More gear and training absolutely improve capability, but you don’t need a cargo van to bring home groceries, a bush hog to mow a suburban lawn, or this kind of training for 99.999% of DGUs, which are themselves nearly black swan events for the average person.

      Among those who can afford the time, cost and equipment for this sort of training, the odds of needing it are even less. Ultimately, a new address or line of work is probably a better investment toward continued survival than this sort of training for most people. In other words, if you’re able to pay to train like this, and see a real need for it in your life, you’re spending money on the wrong thing.

      • Ardent,

        Great comment.

        Although I do take exception to your statement, “[defensive gun uses] are themselves nearly black swan events for the average person.” I like to think that I am an “average person” and I have already survived two attacks from humans where I was legally justified to draw (and would have drawn if I had been armed) … as well as one event versus attacking dogs where I did actually draw.

        More importantly, if you look at the reported violent crime rate averaged across the entire population of the United States, it equates to about 1 in 300 people being the victim of a violent crime this year. When you consider that over the course of an adult lifetime (say 50 years of which you could legally be armed in public), that equates to about 1 in 6 people will be the victim of a violent crime. That is not a “black swan” material in my mind.

        • I, too, have had two DGUs in my 57 years of life on earth. Both times the mere display(granted, the display was at the aggressors center of mass…) of the firearm solved the problem.
          Perhaps a little often for a true black swan, but I think that that really only means; an event that cannot be predicted, instead of; extremely unlikely.
          “with more practical things to do and a much better, more accurate understanding of the threats I actually face.” is the crux of the post. Most of what ‘operators’ buy for gear is so unnecessary as to be laughable to those who understand a little more. Not that that gear is useless, but what use is gear specialized for breaking into a house full of terrorists in Raqqua if you are an OFWG interested in home defense and self protection?

    • Now that’s Tier 1 shit, right there. BRB, running to the store for the 2nd G19 and a left-handed holster.

  8. I need these experts to show me how to draw off hand when using pocket carry. That would be impressive. Ground rules though, no taking off the pants. Not happening, no sir.

    • Hmmm… Well, seeing you drop your pants could certainly interfere with someone’s OODA loop! ?

    • Drawing off hand is easy. Insert off hand into off hand pocket, draw second gun. 🙂

      Seriously, I’ve drawn from a front pocket with the wrong hand before. (I keep my wallet, flashlight, and phone in my left front pocket, and I’ve pulled both the wallet and the flashlight with my right hand while talking on the phone in my left hand before.) I hope I never have to rely on that skill to save my life. It ain’t easy…

      Most of my cop friends carry a pocket sized gun in their off hand pocket with the primary pistol on the strong hand side. Much more practical solution than reaching around like the video demonstrates.

  9. I am Operator As F*ck! But first I have to find the remote, most likely between the couch cushions.

  10. I snicker, very quietly, at the operators. Quietly, as they have no sense of humor.

  11. If they teach this at the Sig Sauer Academy, you have saved me some money. This is giving that idiot Yeager a run for his money. Is so Tacticool, lol….

    Real operators don’t call themselves operators.

  12. If I anticipated such a scenario… I’d simply not go there!

    A second gun would be a fair idea if you couldn’t avoid going there, I suppose, but it’s too much like trying to wear two jackets or two hats. No thanks. 🙂

  13. Nice maneuver, but it has zero application to everyday CC (IWB/OWB), where my belt loops are going to keep the holster exactly where it started the day.

    • Excellent point.
      My holster won’t move forwards or backwards and I’m using an OWB holster.

    • + 1 ^^ this. Only OAF guys in the box actually carry a combat belt. Real people carry holsters in their pants using belts and loops. Stupid video and a waste of time to watch.

    • Good point Mike; this technique presupposes that your equipment is malfunctioning. That is, if you can do this, your belt and holster rig isn’t working right.

  14. How about support hand pulling pistol halfway from holster, then turning pistol inside of holster 180 degrees, then getting a grip on pistol.
    What’s with the shoot yourself in the nads between your legs stuff ?
    Also takes a lot longer with the knee pinch thing.
    Guess I’m not an operator, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.

  15. “Ok administratively holster.”

    “…uh which one is that?”

    “…er, the one where you put it back in the holster…just holster it.”

    “Oh, OK.”

    • I guess that differs from tactically holstering…somehow. Then again, many of us may not be physically fit or sufficiently trained enough to handle what these…instructors…would consider a tactical holstering. After seeing that I wouldn’t be surprised if it involved a back flip and a ground roll.

      This stuff would make me blush and wince if I received it as training to enter full on warfare alone and armed only with a pistol that the ROE stated I couldn’t draw until someone shot me in my strong side arm! Under other conditions this is just…well, it speaks for itself.

  16. Wanna see him clear and rack that puppy off his groin.
    Until then not a true operational operator!

  18. If you have a big loose gun belt like that, wouldn’t it be easier to slide the pistol behind your back and simply draw with your support hand. No fiddling around between your knees while you get shot in the top of the head. But I’m no operator, as least as far as anyone knows.

    • “Operator” does not necessarily mean “problem-solver.” You, sir (ma’am?) are problem-solver as fuck. PSAF.

    • Yes, of course that would work much better, but it’s too easy and obvious to make any money teaching it to rubes.

      I happen to be thin enough with long enough arms to reach all the way around my back with my weak arm and draw from a holster at 3:00 on my strong side anyway, but certainly anything that doesn’t include using one’s knees to grip the pistol is a better start than the comedy routine demonstrated in the video. I mean really, that might just be the worst method conceivable of accomplishing the draw. I honestly think that throwing the gun down in front of you and picking it up in a firing grip would be faster and more positive than this garbage. Obviously running the gun under an arm or into your belt to complete the grip transition is also a better bet. Before the safety Nazis start in, this presupposes you’ve already been shot and are still under threat…anything that gets your gun in the fight faster and more positively is automatically safer than anything that doesn’t, period. If you’re still on the four rules and trying not to muzzle your self after already being shot and while still being shot at, your theories and training are incorrect and inadequate to gunfighting and apt to get you killed. Gunfighting is dangerous, and the person shooting at you is always the greatest risk. Screw safety, fight to live!

    • That’s what I way thinking. With my carry rig, I have more chance of reaching behind my back with my weak side hand and unholstering than I do of rotating my belt, holster, and pretty much the whole waistline of my pants to that point. Even my owb Uncle Mikes that I use for hunting can only move between belt loops which isn’t as far as the operator in this video moved.

  19. I once ate an MRE Ham Omelette back in ROTC. And I liked it. That’s got be worth at least a few operator points, yes?

    • Only if you finish off the condiment pouch and eat the handiwipe for an internal bore-clean.

      But you are still hereby authorized to wear the ribbon with “O” device and associated medal.

  20. oh come on guys, its not a useless thing to know how to do. You get surprised by an ahole with a baseball bat (or worse) and he breaks your right are, you got to do something while he begins to beat the crap outta your friend.

    Granted, if you doing this, you are in a world of bad, but better than just standing there crying waiting for him to come back and go all ‘johnny bench batter up’ on your melon

  23. Oh yeah, I’m definitely an operator.

    …I’m also somewhat adept with firearms.

  24. Do people really pay for courses that teach such nonsense? I would not have thought it of the folks at Sig. But then again, as pointed out above, I’m not operator enough to know how to ‘administratively’ holster a gun, I just holster it.

    This is not OAF, it is OAFdUp.

    Maybe the video is really sarcasm, poking fun at the mall ninja.

  25. Realizing that my situational awareness needs to be at 100% at all times, I have given up sleeping altogether. I am now operator as f*uck.

  26. So I had to test this. Belt through pant loops. I’m an overweight guy. I can still reach my pistol and pull it out, no need to move holster round. As far as getting it oriented properly in hand, If you want to be Operator as F#*&, why not just toss in air and catch it?? I tried that a couple of times and felt stupid.

  28. That is some of the dumbest shit I’ve seen. If he wants access with his off-hand he can just carry at a crossdraw position instead of practicing all this nonsense.

  33. I think I’m finally getting it. TTAG is playing a long game to demonstrate that most ‘training’ is either irrelevant, impractical, plain stupid, or some combination of these. It’s working now.
    I was hoping to see someone insist that we were all just FUDDs, and that in failing to embrace and practice this technique we were all clearly doomed. I’m still holding out that someone will.

  34. I can draw my firearm with my support/weak hand from an OWB holster directly into the firing position. Don’t need to hold it between my knees. It is a small semi-auto, though.

    I also carry a backup in the front pants pocket on my support/weak side.

    I routinely practice both ways.

  35. *Very,Very Heavy Sigh*. No non military or non police needs to train as an “Operator”. Period. You will never have need of this level of training in your real life.

    How to safely handle your weapon without blowing your toes off or the toes of any other innocent and a class session with a lawyer that knows the rules in your area. That’s as operator as fuck as you need to be. If it’ll make you feel better you can send me 5 bucks worth of ammo for my fee.

  36. I have trained extensively at Sig several times (3 days in a row, 8h per day) with top notch reknown instructors. At one point, yes, you will simulate the fact that your strong arm is incapacitated and run a course with your weak arm only, having to draw, rack slide, and reload while moving and being timed. If you think that it is ridiculous, just try and see how you do. Then wait until the instructor puts a dummy round or two in your magazines. Try to clear a jam with this one weak hand only while the timer is running. Just try. Once. And then, we’ll talk again if you still think that it is a stupid exercise. If you have never practiced it and somebody is really shooting at you, you will NEVER figure out how to do all this under an adrenaline rush. Sig Academy is awesome. Train there once in your life.

  37. There are those of us in this great country who can see the writing on the wall. We can see that the economy is not good
    that it is just limping along with the same problems that existed in the recession of 2009. The Federal Reserve’s sole
    purpose since 2009 is to play catch up by pumping liquidity in a system that hides trillions and trillions of toxic financial
    derivatives. Derivatives also known as DEBT that can never be payed back in full because there just isn’t
    enough of value in the world to cover it. Eventually it will all come crashing down. So…..in a financial collapse the question is. Would having the training and skills an “OPERATOR” has then be of benefit. Normal societal rules
    and expectations wouldn’t apply. I’m not talking about MAD MAX just a level of progress and sophistication during this
    in my opinion eventual existence that is far below what we know now. I pose this question because of a number of commentators have stated that there would never be a time when your average joe citizen would need to train like a
    SEAL. But what IF………

    • Average joe citizen can’t train like a navy seal. Navy seals and all the operator as fuck types are on your rich uncle’s time and dime. They don’t have another job. Being operator as fuck is their full time position. Full Time. 24/7/365.

      Unless your training “academy” has you around the clock and has live fire going over your head and has things like “hell week” and “agony hill” and the “grinder” for recreation and can make you and your wannabe classmates lay in the incoming surf at 1am for hours you aren’t getting the training of a military badass.

      You and your instructors have to be willing to make you bleed to get anything near the kind of training that the special forces community in the military gets.

      Any instructor on the citizen side would be sued or arrested long before you could achieve”operator as fuck” status.

      • Yup, just like those guys who think they can beat UFC fighters. The answer is: you can’t because it’s not your job.

        Sorry boys, your average straw or bantam weight FEMALE fighter will destroy 95% of men in this country. It’s their job. 60+ hour per week job. You can’t compete because you don’t have the time or the sponsors.

        The military, as jwm pointed out is a full time position for most of these guys,
        National Guard and Reserves not withstanding. But even within the reserves they get a weekend a month and two weeks a year AFTER the go to Basic + whatever else their MOS requires. They can’t lose this job for disappearing like this either and when they go they get paid and Uncle Sam foots the bill for what they do. So unless you can just drop your life and go train for months and months on end with an unlimited budget and few restrictions on what your instructors can do to you, you’ll never even have a shot at beginning to catch up.

        Then there’s the fact that you can’t touch a lot of the stuff these guys use as “operators”. Show me the civvie demo school or the class where you get trained on a 240B or how to use an RPG. Where’s the class on how to properly set up MG’s to defend a position or how to call in support? How about a civilian combat jump school or dive school? What about language school?

        If someone came to you and said they could make you a world-class, give-Connor McGregor-a-run-for-his-money fighter in a few weeks, would you believe them? So why would you believe a guy making essentially the same claim but with a rifle and cammies instead of shorts and UFC gloves?

  38. I killed a man once with a can of green beans. I didn’t want to shoot him because I was hung over and had a bad headache. Does that qualify as “Operator as F*ck”?

    • Were they tactical, or dehydrated beans? Did you at least cover any shiny surfaces with black duct tape? If so then yes, if not sorry.

  39. I still have like 4 or 5 more Instructor Zero videos to watch, so I should be OAF by Wednesday or so.

  40. You’re all just a bunch of FUDDs! If this tactic can save just one life, then we should all be practicing it. You need to get your priorities straight.

  42. The more i hear and see about “professional” firearms training, the more i realise i would just be paying $600 to shoot up someone else’s cardboard.

  43. Im still operational to use a gun.
    Wasted hundreds of dollars for this or that combat course 25-35 years ago.
    Wish I had that money today.
    The certificates I have might make for a decent target today.
    The training?? Good maybe in its day. Today?? Not so much. Im 35 years older now. No where near the same physical condition as then.
    But basics never change use front sight, pull trigger. Keep pulling trigger till aggression has stopped. Evaluate. Pull trigger some more if needed.
    Seems as valid to me today as it did when I paid to learn it.
    So yah Im AOasF today as I cn be

  44. The chances of being able to weak-side draw from my level 3 retention holster are close enough to zero that I would be better spending that training time running… because is someone blows my hand off I’d be better off sprinting away or into them instead of trying to give my holster a reach-around.

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