While I believe racist, trigger-happy cops are clearly the exception rather than the rule, recent events indicate that the gulf between law enforcement and citizens of color who employ them has widened. Or has it? We’ve come a long way from the days when Southern Democrat-controlled police did everything in their power – violently – to “keep the niggers in their place.” In fact, the debate over American policing should be a lot wider than whether or not they should wear body cameras. The real question is how do we create a police force we can trust and respect for all Americans?
@RF, well well….surprise surprise….it’s Friday at TTAG. Time for another anti-cop post….party on Garth.
Im assuming you’ve been living under a rock, because reforming the way cops police in America has been an extremely hot topic for the past couple months…
Your right El Mac they are way too hard on cops. And liberals. And obama. And antigun groups. And gun owners who do stupid things. Maybe we can get TTAG to just a little preview of a story instead and put “Move along people, nothing to see here.”
Heaven forbid we should criticize the armed agents of state power! What do you think this is? The land of the free?
@Grindstone, it’s one thing to post a critical comment on a social/political topic. It’s a whole nuther country to dedicate one’s website to anti-cop talk under the false guise of The Truth About Guns” according to RF. But broad brush away amigo!
Talk about broad brush. None of these articles are anti-cop, unless you believe any form of criticism of armed state agents to be “anti-cop”. Further, your hyperbole is clearly without basis in reality. Just on the current front page alone with 12 article present, 9 have almost zero to do with police or criticism of police.
Further, under “About Us” the first line is as follows: “Robert Farago founded The Truth About Guns in February of 2010 to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.”
The actions of the armed agents of the state have every bearing on the ethical, moral, cultural, and political state of firearms in the US.
To believe otherwise would indicate that one is either extremely sheltered or has their head in the sand (among other, similarly darkly-lit places).
@Grindstone, ostrich much?
If that’s how you feel, you’re free to choose not to read it.
@percynjpn, yeah. I thought about that. But I’d disappoint RF.
First we should stop dressing them up in tactical black making them look like spec ops.
Yeah, Black, OD Green, Camo, these are for military. Cops are not military, and should stick to the established Approved Cop Colors of Blue or Khaki when/if they ever have to tactical up. Psychologically it makes a big difference, on both ends.
Agreed. For standard shifts – I don’t understand why you need to look like you just fast-roped out of a Blackhawk.
If it is because your job is so dangerous you need to be prepared for anything – then we really need to talk about the statistics. While even one cop killed in the line of duty is too many, if we follow the logic to be prepared for anything then we need to ensure the pizza delivery guy gets his Bearcat – since he is likely in a greater statistical danger.
A house painter is in greater statistical danger. Being a cop is literally the safest job in the US. Plus you get a pension and a free car.
It would make more sense for them to wear a race car driver-like protective suit, based on injury reports for police officers.
@B, are you certain that being a cop is “literally the safest job in the US”? Do you have any kind of report to cite? I know it’s a relatively safe job when compared to commercial fishing and roofing, but you’d figure that there’d be something out that that’s a little safer than police work. Am I to understand that School Lunch Lady and Nun are more dangerous than Police Officer?
Being a cop bounces between 10 and 11 in a ranking of the most dangerous jobs. Most deaths and serious injuries are traffic related.
@Sian, yeah man. Because everyone knows that wearing certain colors makes one very very dangerous! Ergo, we should ban certain colors from the population. Do it for the children. If it saves only one life, it will be worth it. Afterall, it’s only reasonable color control we are talking about. And you know, according to the polls, the vast majority of Americans agree that is worth it for our safety. Only the extreme color nuts would disagree.
ಠ_ಠ
It’s about psychology on both sides. I’m sorry you can’t seem to understand that. You don’t need to get all reducto ad absurdium about it, you’ll just make yourself look worse.
@Sian, see what I did there? Yup. I know you do.
My exact first thought. Duty uniforms, no tacticool stuff. Body armor is fine, and so are helmets, but the rest of the military gear has got to go. Cops should look like cops, and maybe then they would not act like they are in a war zone.
My second thought is the elimination of no-knock raids in almost all cases. They are rarely warranted, and massively overused. The body counts of the innocent are unacceptable. Cops used to arrest lots of people without surrounding houses with men armed with automatic weapons, even in cases of stand-offs. Nothing has changed to warrant every “dangerous” arrest be performed by a SWAT squad.
^ This !!!!!
Fantastic comment Mark N.
^^^ OH YEAH!!!! Right on the money!
Good first steps. We should get rid of the war on…all sorts of stupid victimless crime laws.
Gun laws, helmet laws, drug laws, liquor laws, knife laws are stupid Then we have all sorts of laws to make business and industry owners into big bad criminals. Of course we now have The War on Coal.
Honestly, at this point, I’d probably abolish no-knock entirely. It’s overkill, yes, but it sends a very strong message, and law enforcement somehow managed to work fine before these were instituted in the first place (in, what, early 70s?). Today, I’m certain that far more people are harmed by this practice than would be helped by it in situations which truly require such a thing (hostage etc).
Then, maybe in a decade or so, once everyone is reasonably certain that the sky indeed doesn’t fall if SWAT can’t just bust a door with no announcement, we can gradually reintroduce it… with a lot of checks and balances… and with a strictly defined list of cases where it’s applicable.
Yea! And no shoulder thingy that goes up for those cops! Because banning things I don’t like to see solves problems. Everyone knows we have to judge a person, gun, car, ect. on how it looks. It might be dangerous to the kids!
I once heard about the reason police wear blue. Not sure when or where I heard it or if its total bs, although I think it makes sense. The London Metropolitan Police Department (UK) being one of the worlds first PD were concerned about being viewed as an army unit. So they chose the color blue as their uniform color because it was opposite the color red that British troops wore at the time. Maybe its time police in this country stopped looking like the military. I have an old picture in one of our family photo albums. Its of me at the age of 3 or 4 being held on top of a police motorcycle by my uncle. The photo was taken probably in 1977 or 78 and it is shocking how my uncle looks in his uniform. Nothing how officers , even patrol officers from that very dept., look today.
Rather they want to be or not, police should be leaders in the community. They should inspire others. By dressing like they do they are sending a message to the community that these are very dangerous times and we have to dress this way to prepare for them. Then they smack a guy because he has a rifle in the backseat and the guy won’t let them search the car unless they get a search warrant.
To me it appears more as they don’t think of themselves as part of the community, as fellow citizens. They come off more as if they think they are an occupying force. US vs them instead of we.
And arm them no better than the average citizen. Take away their night vision goggles, MRAPs, machine guns, F-16 fighters, submarines, missile launchers, flame throwers, etc. I would give each cop a sidearm, an AR-15 semi-auto rifle, and that is about it. Let them carry what the local / state laws allow citizens to carry and they may begin to act more like citizens than soldiers. If they need more fire power or specialized weapons, they can call for such weapons to be brought to the scene.
Anyone can buy night vision goggles, a flamethrower, and in some states, full auto weapons. Void argument.
Except machine guns are hard to get. Nevermind the legality, bureaucratic red tape, waiting period of close to a year, and prohibitive cost that only the rich can afford but the fact that civilian machine gun ownership is stuck in 1986 so while the cops can get the latest and greatest we have to stick with one’s that are at least 28 soon to be 29 years old.
Yea I can hear people say you can swap uppers on an M4/M16 but it is the exception not the rule plus there is a limited supply of them. If the lower goes bad then bye-bye machinegun. Same with the G3 series too.
And arm them no better than the average citizen. Take away their cop carve outs on gun control laws.
Make them buy their own uniforms… and make the job voluntary, without pay other than “We pay your rent and food.”
Assuming you’re serious, if they made it voluntary and only gave room and board, you’d have a police department that consisted of people for whom power is so important that they’d be willing to do the job for nothing. I wouldn’t trust someone who’d be willing to do the job for no pay. They’d be doing it for the wrong reasons.
Wow. So you want a Mexican style police force. I agree the po po need to take it down a few notches from fallujah, but voluntary besides room and board? That’s just asking for some extreme corruption. You have to pay officers and soldiers at least enough to keep them from turning on you or becoming criminals themselves, this fact is as old as nations. Do you know what roman soldiers would do when they didn’t get paid?
Of course the first comment is someone whining about being “anti-cop” because they dare raise a question.
The detachment from reality must be quite the high.
He’s a cop sucker.
So much so that his face looks like an @sshole.
FYI, they prefer to be called ‘Holster-sniffers”.
We’ve come a long way from the days police did everything in their power to “keep the niggers in their place.”
I’m not so sure we have.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/i-hate-nggers-that-is-all-5-ohio-deputies-probed-for-years-of-racist-text-messages/
just ughhhh
Ohio is also where that black kid with a toy gun and the black guy with a toy gun were shot and killed.
Kind of glad I moved out of there.
Ohio is also where…
Not to mention the home of the traitor Kasich, who by changing his vote effectively single-handedly gave us the Clinton Assault Weapons Ban.
Note also that Dayton, Ohio is like 45% Black. So in the community these cops were policing, every second citizen was someone whom they hate with a passion.
I’ve said it before. I actually like cops and respect them for what they (the good ones) do.
But I also believe that we could get by with a lot fewer cops (especially militarized ones) if more people would take responsibility for their own personal safety by carrying a firearm with them everywhere they go.
If that doesn’t happen, the future is inevitable and it doesn’t look good.
That buzzing noise you’re hearing right now isn’t a hornets nest outside the window. It’s a million liberals chanting “nananananana people can’t be responsible for themselves nananananana” as they read your comment.
Hornets? The buzzing could be a Dept. of Defense micro-drone on “loan” to the local police force to be used for investigating potential domestic terrorists that support the 2nd amendment and the idea that defending ones self and family from thieves and tugs is an integral part of exercising liberty and freedom.
I’ve been told each of us should have a shotgun. I haven’t felt the need. First time I have an unidentified (ie, not mine) drone outside my window, I’ll have a loaded 12-guage on the deck by the end of the day. Killing those expensive drones will make it stop, whoever is flying them.
So you mean the little guy buzzing around my house wasn’t one of the aliens from the movie batteries not included? Damn you DOD!
Larry in TX, wouldn’t be as fun but I would suggest researching the radio control frequencies used to provide commands to the drone, then jam them. Nothing more amusing than seeing somebody’s toy go stupid on them and imagining their reaction as they’re mashing all the controls with no affect.
@styrgwillidar Careful, you might break a FCC edict and have a team of aforementioned mall ninjas kicking in your door for making terroristic threats.
True, true. Liberalism is all about enslaving and subjugating the people.
And those liberals who disagree with that assessment tend to suffer from a classic case of Stockholm syndrome.
Federalize all cops employing comprehensive psychological screening and training so that Constitutional Rights are the first priority, with a focus on defusing potentially dangerous situations, using non-lethal methods and tools, racial sensitivity is a regular subject in ongoing training and escalation is never an approved approach. That way, every cop should be expected to perform their duties similarly, and the ones who don’t pass muster can find other work as security guards – but when the training program shows that certain existing cops are unable to embrace these new psychological standards where they are suspected of being a danger to society, then their rights to possess/access firearms is reviewed.
Because fed gov has such a high regard for the constitution?
Federalizing police would likely make things worse overall (not necessarily in the racial context). When every agency from the USDA to the Library of Congress has a swat team, and they do things like raid Gibson Guitars because of some wood, I think we’d see more abuses, not less.
Under the present system of local police forces there is at least the potential for local control, if people get off their duffs and demand it.
OMG, where to start. Do you realize you are advocating putting Barack Obama directly in control of every police officer in the country? To be replaced in a few years, possibly, by Adolph Hitler III? And if anyone does not toe the party line, withdraw his/her firearm rights forever? What are you thinking? This would make it really easy to control the protests when Barry cancels the 2016 elections and amends the constitution by executive order to change his title to “emperor for life”. We need to think before such proposals.
Keep in mind your Sheriff is an elected official and holds a pretty powerful position.
Every time I bring that up to the city donut munchers here, I get accused of being a Moore, or a sovereign citizen, not that either offends me. =)
“Keep in mind your Sheriff is an elected official and holds a pretty powerful position.”
Exactly why if you have a bad apple of a Sheriff,voters can “unelect” him. Voters are more powerful if they choose to be.
Live in a medium size town in Central Texas, LEO wear traditional cop uniform. In parking lot of police department in a smaller town not far me is a military looking vehicle, have never seen it moved out of the same place, been there for a few years, starting to look in need of fresh paint job. Maybe they drive it in city parade down main street and park it again until next year.
I don’t go into big cities nearby like Austin or San Antonio if I can help it, but haven’t seen any police in any thing other that standard uniform even there. Maye I don’t hang out in neighborhoods with stupid people doing stupid things at right times?
No need to Federalize them, we have the DHS and Federal Protective Service. And the Capitol Police, and the Park Police, yada, yada…
….armed enforcement in the Social Security Administration (SS administration- wonder if that’s how they refer to themselves?) Education Department, IRS, Fish and Wildlife Service, EPA…
I think the first thing should be a review of the training officers take across the country. After evaluating that, making the proper changes to that training. Secondly, outside reviews for investigations and complaints. I think it is highly optimistic to think police policing themselves will be just. I also think they should be held liable for their errors like any other profession.
Well, as a first step- the police are limited to the weapons and equipment available to the general public and no NFA items. That is, by available to the general public I mean without have to go through special licensing or other requirements.
I agree, and would specify “including taken to extremes”, as in, if an average citizen cannot carry a firearm into a school, or in public, or without a license, then neither can the police.
I like this one. I can hear the Jimmies rustling already.
Tech de-escalation techniques. Punish officers for not using them. Train them to stay calm and that screaming at someone to be reserved and is not for initial contact. Even if someone is not being absolutely compliant right away.
Oh, and train them that they have no authority over an individual until there is legitimate probable cause. A guy walking down the street doesn’t have to tell you where he’s going just because he’s walking down the street.
Riiiight. Okay, so let’s say some guy commits an armed robbery. The police are given a general description of his physical characteristics (race, height, facial hair) and a reasonably good clothing description (blue jeans, red t-shirt, black baseball cap). A police officer sees a guy walking away from the area of the robbery matching the description. The guy runs when the cop tries to talk to him. The cop, in that second, determines he does NOT have probable cause for robbery but only reasonable suspicion. So he has to let the guy run away, right?
Fail.
Doesn’t an accurate description within the area of the crime satisfy reasonable suspicion?
He should have to know for sure that the guy he’s looking at is guilty before he makes contact. Otherwise, he’s violating the whole US constitution all at once.
We need to stop differentiating between police and “civilians”. The bad police see all non-police as just potential criminals, or just someone who hasn’t been caught yet. The us versus them mentality needs to become us ARE them.
I absolutely agree!!!! The us vs. them mind set has to go away immediately. The police are supposed to protect and SERVE the community. Not harass, abuse, and intimidate just because they feel like it. There are some 15,000 police agencies in the country and according to this site:http://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2013 there were 105 in the line of duty deaths in 2013, and that includes drowning, training accidents, etc. Only 32 by gunfire and 2 of those were accidental. But it is estimated that they shot and killed approximately 1000-1500 people while on duty. Hard to get exact numbers as the FBI doesn’t keep this stat. BOTH numbers are smaller than I would have thought after listening to the over the top rhetoric spewed by both sides in recent months. Kinda makes the MRAPS, Ghilley suits, and all the other military gear seem just that much more foolish. The media and the politicians are pushing a perception of of danger faced by police that is overblown when compared to reality. And to listen to Al (never met crisis I couldn’t make worse) Sharpton, you would think 50 black children under the age of ten are gunned down by police every day.
Citizens should be legally able to acquire any weapon, vehicle, armor, etc. that the police can. Police are supposed to work for us. They are not supposed to be ruling us. They are no better than us.
There are so many police today that they think of themselves as some kind of army (distinct from “civilians”), and dream of their power to control all who are not police due to their numbers and the superior weapons and other equipment they have. This is what has to stop, beginning with cutting their numbers in half and removing all special privileges. Each approach to a citizen should resemble an officer’s approach to his immediate superior.
” Each approach to a citizen should resemble an officer’s approach to his immediate superior.”
This alone would put police/public relations light years ahead of the mess we have now.
I like that a lot, so much more than “the police should be forced to use the equipment that civilians are allowed to have.” That way, the police can have the gear they need… but they have to think hard about whether it’s worth (gasp) letting other citizens own the same.
I am an officer and I have a Glock 17 and Remington 870. both widely available to all.
The fictional character Commander William Adama had an appropriate quote that I think fits here.
“There’s a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”
win for the BSG quote! So true though
So say we all!
That is a very good post.
Mandatory 2 year public service and expand the choices from military only to police,fire,rescue,conservation corp, etc. Obviously the all volunteer method attracts alot of the wrong folks.
Not bad. Serve before or after higher education. Expensive, but might be worth it!
OTOH, how would you enforce that the first time a gang-banger says “KMA, I’m good selling my drugs!”
By repealing all drug laws. They are a bigger failure than prohibition, and generates 80% of the violence we have in society.
Hmmm…interesting although it does put the state above the freedom of choice of the individual in this case. I will say that I think the founding fathers envisioned that public service would be temporary and not a career ruling profession.
Exactly.
Heinlein suggested a neat workaround for that. The service, whatever it may be, is voluntary – but you have to do it to get full citizenship rights, and in particular the right to vote in the elections, and be elected. Should probably also apply to most if not all mid-to-high level unelected positions in the government, in all three branches of it.
Nothing says “freedom” like being forced to work for the state.
Spoken like someone who has never done any public service. And E1 base pay and bennies isn’t the end of the world for most 18 year olds.
The lack of logic, it astounds me.
And I’ve been that 18 year old. Again, nothing more liberating than being forced to work for the state.
@grind, agreed, but do you seriously think you are free?
When I am threatened with being put in a cage or killed for performing non-violent actions that affect nobody but myself, no I do not think I am free.
But my points are directed more at the flag-waving “USA-USA-USA” chanting right-wingers.
Most importantly police need to be a part of the community they are working in, to help prevent an ‘us vs you’ mentality. I don’t know if it’s possible, but they need to try and regain the small-town style rapport with the people. It makes a big difference if the cop personally knows the person (or the family of the person) he’s arresting.
Robot cops.
Robots are expendable. If the loss of a police robot saves just one child or person acting criminally, winning!
Robot cops would not need to use lethal force, they could use non-lethal methods. Robot cops don’t worry about going home to their wives. They are expendable.
Robot cops would record and ID criminals via video, RFID tagging, biometric signature, etc. Drones, autonomous vehicles, and bipedal officers could supplement human policing and take the lead when a suspect is subdued. No need for human on human violence ever again.
Of course, this plan would benefit significantly with robot lawyers, prosecutors, and judges who could be programmed for fairness and equity – increasing public trust in the distribution of justice.
Come on, science!
…where’s Gort when you need him?
Klaatu barada nikto.
Necktie? Nectar? Nickle?
🙂
Why not robot criminals, as well, remove humans from the entire equation!
I take it you didn’t pay much attention to the cops in Elysium.
End prohibition. Stop using police as revenuers.
I pull my hair out every time some pundit goes on about police response to a “guy just selling loosies” but never mentions the notion of perhaps altering whatever tax code it is that compelled the cops to act in the first place.
Cops are children running on emotion and fear. The fewer reasons they have to interact with us the better. Let’s start cutting down those reasons.
The first point is a cultural one. Police need to understand that they are in FACT civilians. Police are not bound the the Uniform Code of Military Justice. When speaking they can’t say or feel things like “you’re a civilian you wouldn’t understand”. Now on the whole is a cops job more dangerous on average then say an accounts? Yes it is. Is a cope bound to some higher form of morality and ethics? Nope. Here though is the point of change that needs to be taken in the culture of police. They need to have more accountability. A case from my state of Massachusetts highlights an example:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/07/robert-farago/irresponsible-gun-owners-day-worcester-pd-officer-william-stout/
If this crime was committed by the above named accountant what would have happened? Would he have been released on $500 dollars bail? No way in hell. When you add the uncovering of Civil Forfeiture scam that departments are pulling the gulf and resentment continues to widen.
Now lets add that to policing a high crime neighborhood. You have cops that deal with some of the lowest form of criminals, daily. Soon they’re the hammer and everything looks like a nail.
So what needs to change? A culture change in the police force nation wide. Actively encourage community relations and break down the wall of though where cops think of citizens and civilians and they’re above or separate from them. Hold cops who violate the law to the same standard that non-law enforcement are held to. Next, stop buying MRAPS and BDU’s. Put more cops in the area and make it impossible for crime to flourish. Don’t allow police chiefs like the douche McCarthy in Chicago that are so focused on the numbers that they cheat and lie (nice read here http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/May-2014/Chicago-crime-rates/).
That’s what I think at least and everyone knows the saying about opinions.
Do you think that if they did all these things that instead of changing the existing cops it would wind up changing who applies for the job? If you “demilitarized” the police department, do you think the job would attract as many meatheads as it currently does? Would they start getting people who would’ve otherwise been Teach For America or Peace Corps volunteers?
I’m more concerned about the criminalization of the general public. Everything we do is subject to control and/or regulation. If the cops weren’t tasked with enforcing tax law and unconstitutional regulation they would have less confrontations with the citizenry. And BTW the cops are being given theses lethal toys by the feds, who are the biggest implementers of tyrannical laws.
You lost me when you suggested this issue only impacts people/communities of color. The militarization of police know no color.
Maybe but it’s pretty much old white guys on the internet that are concerned about it.
The OWG tend to be the proactive bunch in society.
While police brutality affects all it is disproportionately waged against people of color in this country. Also, acknowledging that something is in fact racially biased is no reason to get your briefs in a bunch.
Considering the arrest rates for minorities are far higher than whites for crimes that hold similar rates among the races, it’s pretty clear that this is a race issue.
I feel like most of the problems have nothing to do with gear. I give literally zero craps about MRAPS and swat gear, absent the incredible and transparent abuse of taxpayer dollars, sigh…
Anywho where was I? Reforming cops. The biggest changes need to be policy changes. Nix no-knock raids for one thing. Also charge police with crimes when they would charge anyone else. That double standard is responsible for a great deal of evil alone. You’ve chronicled that double standard here quite often.
Beyond that? Who cares if they have a SWAT team with ninja operational tactical? Sometimes they need one. Wouldn’t you want a SWAT team if you were being held hostage? The problem is NOT the guns. (right? just like with you and I?) The problem is abuse.
Just sayin…
Roger that on no-knock raids and outlaw Asset Seizure.
This issue with the specialized equipment is one of budgets. Those cost large amounts of money to buy and maintain, and those budgets need to be justified. So, If they wanna keep their cool toys, they need to find excuses to use them.
The problem with SWAT equipment and tactics is that it seems to consistently bring with it the corresponding soldier-like mentality. And then the officers basically start looking for excuses to be “operators”, and use all the tacticool toys that they have. After all, if you have a MRAP, it’s so much more fun to use it to ram through the wall instead of kicking the front door out (much less knocking on said door), and you can always come up with some ultimately bullshit, but acceptable on the first glance, excuse.
do REAL real fundamental question to ask is, is the entire notion of govt police even constitutional?? http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm
No.
They now themselves refer to their citizen bosses as “civilians.” As such, they’re de facto admitting that they’re an occupying standing army. And standing armies are UNconstitutional. The only lawful form of ‘standing’ military under the constitution is the US NAVY. And, there’s a reason why aircrafts are legalese euphemistically referred to as “air SHIPS” as to fall under maritime admiralty laws. The reason why we have renewal of US army’s budget every two years is precisely because their functions are limited to times of war, insurrections, etc. As such that, among others is why there has never been a time that Amerika has NOT involved in wars.
Plus, now, without a shadow of a doubt, modern cops share the exactly the same to similar command hierarchy, same to similar often direct hand-me-down wartoys via 1033 program, often even WORSE Rules Of Engagement protocol than those required of servicemen overseas (yes, your govt respects lives of foreigners they’re directly occupying overseas, than that of their own citizen bosses back at home), they are all certainly Federalized, trained in DoJ instituted doctrines, and get funds from Fed. govt. As such, there is almost no local police department in America that is NOT federalized occupying army.
Frankly, just WTF do they suppose 2A was precisely for?
‘Modern’ policing is a DIRECT import from those degenerate Red Coats; it was first instituted in Boston & NYC modeled directly after the London Metropolitan police: blue uniforms and all. Sheriffs, were the ONLY Common Law recognized form of legitimate ‘consent of the governed’ peace-officer in the English derivative common law doctrine.
There is NO place for anything other than a sheriff, which in the American context has always been an elected position directly answerable to the citizenry. But even the county sheriffs, in spite of recent moves and headways made by the likes of Sheriff Mack and Stewart Rhodes of OathKeepers, still represent a federalized standing army.
Plus, just think. How much sense does it make, to have cops have their own CSI, handing their own chain of custody, in all cases, including cases where THEY are the accused, especially when numerous govt and/or govt-contracted CSI labs have been routinely found to be wholly fabricating evidence, planting evidence, conveniently losing evidence, doctoring drug test results, use unreliable drug litmus, etc??
Also, this country, depending on where, have homicide investigation resolution ‘success rate’ of 40-60% on average, according to FBI’s own numbers.
And, even with the post 9/11-policestate, according to FBI’s 2007 numbers, during height of GWB’s more overt militant regime, we only had barely 800,000 cops, including feds, state, and local. As such, practically 99% of security concerns in America are ALREADY dealt with via private security solutions and/or private individuals.
EVERYTHING that govt police does, is not some special byproduct of some genetic engineering. It’s a skillset that ANYONE not brain-damaged is capable of doing. It’s just by what mechanism does a given society use in resolving and prosecuting crimes.
Now, SWAT/HRT/bombsquads are specialized positions that should always have a constant consistent pipeline of skillset maintenance and transference and mentorship, IF deployed as actually needed, NOT used to raid raw milk famers, minor warrants, Dept of Ed payment collections (yeah, look it up, Dept of Ed actually has SWAT teams, one of particularly note raided the wrong expired address, destroyed doors, carpeting, not reimbursement as per usual, in this case, to the ex husband of the accused wrongly raided), etc.
In what other profession do you have legal, liability immunity for ‘oops, sorry, we flashbanged the wrong baby crib, oops 7yr old Aiyana Jones, my MP5 carried by actually trained CTU operators worldwide since the 1960’s…just went off all by itself…on its own, and kiled you while you were committing the crime of sleeping on your grandma’s couch that turned out to be the wrong house and wrong targeted individuals ’cause we never bother with something called Google Maps/Earth to verify, nor do any prior recon to verify our targets, ’cause A&E cameras were rolling and we want you to know we’re operator cool and shit’??
now, if we actually had systematic, aggressive scrutiny, and liability for aberrant govt terrorists, it’d be one thing, but we don’t: it is one profession where they literally can ‘legally’ get away with murder, with a paycheck, and pension afterwards, all paid for by the taxpayers and private insurance underwriters that enable EVERY municipality to exist in the first place.
So the question isn’t ‘reform,’ it’s whenTF do we repeal and ABOLISH them? ALL of them, except for specialized fields like SWAT/HRT/bombsquads, and in the interim, institute a more of a volunteer firefighter model, which would in fact free up useless revenue generation ticketing schemes, and redirect remnant resources to focus on actual crimes, like major frauds, vicious assaults, rape, kidnapping, pedophilia, torture, and murders.
Plus a sure sign of a society in decline is when you have a distinct self-deluding ‘warrior-class’ of operator wannabes, who see themselves apart and above those who actually pay for their livelihood and deem them to be their servants, instead of the rightfully constitutional disposition of them being the SERVANTS of the citizenry.
It also breeds a generation of pussies who cannot even resolve any conflicts with words, as the false comfort of deferring all their problems to the State actors to resolve any inter-human issue for them, to the point that moron monkeys are dialing 911 because their drive-through fast food wasn’t as hot as perceived to be advertised (seriously, look up how many idiots call 911 for the most mundane non emergency, yes, including fast food disputes, and even junkies calling cops to resolve the low quality of their drugs! lol).
Like everything else, assuming someone else will do something for you displaces responsibility, breeds ineptness, lack of inter-personal conflict resolution skills, which to a certain extent is why you have so many short tempered primates in the po po resorting to killing first, ask later: they’re an unfortunate byproduct of this very pansified society with generation of youths who never grew up learning to deal with another human being with words 1st to resolve conflicts. Just ask any retired cop from 2-3 decades ago. Hell, now it’s common practice within the Amerikan po po to institutionally intentionally NOT hire any cop with IQ above 100: more pliant robots they make, duh. Yes, google that too: it’s a matter of public record, and lawsuit.
As such, really, whyTF would or should anyone EVER pay for assholes who will kill you over a traffic ticket and/or enforce any number of insane dictates of the political class, whom apparently never heard of Milgrim/Zimbardo/Nuremberg where “just following orders” NEVER excuses anyone?? Worse, in what f’ning universe do these class of goons ‘deserve’ $100,000+ in annual pension, especially if you’re a po po, a lifeguard in Commufornia (yes, it’s true, google that too)??
Once they’re abolished, of course, it its immediate transition, it will be manned by a lot of former cops, but then, you’d have the choice of paying for actual services offered and rendered. Get rid of the equally UNconstitutional income tax, and numerous other local and state excise taxes, you’d actually have citizenry not burdened with high cost of wasteful govt maintenance and taxes, where they can, believe it or not, afford to pay for everything from fraud to homicide themselves, either as individuals, groups, or non-profit charities. Regardless what people may mistakenly delude, considering the verifiable fact of ineptitude and low as hell resolution ‘success’ rates in everything from rape to homicide cases as it exists today, a private option will infinitely be more successful, than what we have now.
Yes, private (NOT “privatized” where govt pay with tax-seized funds corporatist contract out former govt ‘services’ to their donor’s private firms) pay policing already is what secures majority of Americans’ security concerns as is. So really, this isn’t even a mind-blowingly new paradigm proposal.
Abolish and repeal the bastards, post-haste. But frankly, it doesn’t matter: respective Amerikan municipalities will be forced to, once currency reset hits in full; either adapt, or they’ll go the way of Maywood, CA, with or without their wishful thinking.
Beauty of ‘Laws of Economics’: eventually, overtime, it naturally weeds out aberrations.
Did you really think anyone was going to read all that?
xD
No Barstow Cowboy, people you may come across in the comment sections don’t write with the specific intent of addressing you.
if you’re literate, and/or a speed reader, and read it? fine. if not? I don’t care. it’s the direct mail model: I expect less than 1% coming across it to read it. if perchance they find it interesting? fine. if not? I don’t give a damn.
But, if you understood the fundamental questions being raised in that, you wouldn’t be writing silly quips, thinking they’re important enough for a conversation opener. you just wanted to quip, for quip-sakes.
xD
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm
Simple answer.
Take away all their toys and put them back on the street with a hand gun and radio.
Let them wear out some dammed shoe leather again.
Be seen with the public.
Stop hiding in darkened windowed cars.
Now a camera too.
Let them reprove themselves to me.
I have many friends in law enforcement and they would rather it be that way too.
None of this intimidation stuff would or should be needed.
Maybe Id have some respect for a lot of these ego maniacs we give guns to. If we go back to the old ways as it should be.
Amen Jay, great points!
Police need to be held to the exact same laws and standards as the rest of us. The old tripe about “the police need greater leeway to carry out their law enforcement duties” has gotten us to where we are today. They do not need greater leeway, they need to be held accountable for their actions, just like everyone else.
1. Hire the right people, fire the wrong people. Weed out the “fearful bully” types (like that Glans guy in Saratoga, NY). Also stop hiring infantry Soldiers/Marines unless they can COMPLETELY change their mindsets. They’re warriors, police employees aren’t.
2. Train them the right way. Teach de-escalation techniques, teach Constitutional rights, teach them to respect the citizens (not civilians). Most importantly, eradicate the idea of “whatever it takes to get home at night”. Teach them that they don’t get to violate our rights, even if they get scared.
3. Teach the difference between an aggressive dog and one that’s just coming over to say hi. Teach police employees to run away from aggressive dogs. Smoking someones pet is one of the fastest ways to get people to hate you. Thousands of mail carriers, FedEx guys, and stoner kids from Dominos manage to get their work done every day without killing peoples pets.
^^^This^^^
Most cops are not racist and treat everybody — black, white, yellow, red, brown — exactly the same. That is, with complete contempt.
The fact is that we do not even know how many people the cops kill every year.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/hundreds-of-police-killings-are-uncounted-in-federal-statistics-1417577504
The police cannot be reformed from the outside. Only the cops can do it, and they won’t. So, the situation is only going to get worse, and some day we will look back on these times as the “good old days.”
“The police cannot be reformed from the outside. Only the cops can do it, and they won’t.”
I tend to agree.
That being said, I am fairly confident they would indeed change if We The People provided appropriate motivation.
Except that, you know, the arrest rates for minorities are higher than whites for crimes committed at similar rates.
In Georgia (the country, not the state), when Mikheil Saakashvili came to power and faced the task of reforming the utterly corrupt and rotting government apparatus, he decided to start with the police. And the way he did it was extreme – he fired all the cops, everywhere, and then set new standards, and told them to reapply. The target numbers were slashed significantly as well, so along with the raised standards, it meant very heated competition between the candidates – and the only ones that got their work back were the cream of the crop. Even then, most of the new police officers did not come from the old force – they simply couldn’t pass the new bar!
At the same time, they significantly raised the pay for those officers, making the profession that much more prestigious…
The result: in 2003, before the reforms, 5% of the population trusted the cops. In 2010, 5 years after the reforms, that figure was at 87%.
Wouldn’t taking out that drone with a Whamo slingshot and a couple of pieces of shot be a whole lot more sporting?
That’s not the way I shoot trap or skeet, why start here?
If the tactical and strategic advantages aren’t readily apparent, I can’t help you.
How bout a shotgun on an anti-drone drone?
Maybe stop hiring so many ex-military?
Ex military should have first chance at all government jobs. Period. Qualified=hired.
And yet our police are looking and acting more like an army of occupation than ever. Also, forces across the country are hiring from the military in ever increasing numbers….
Coincidence?
The military is too rigid of a structure to transpose to public service. They do not respond well to a person asserting their rights, and are of the mindset of you either follow orders, or go to the brig.
Why? A lot of ex-military are just as dumb and as fascist as the “civilians”. It seems you are pushing the same philosophy as the book “Starship Troopers.” Some of the ex-military are okay, but some would be well suited to be a pet rock.
Joining the military doesn’t automatically make you better than anyone else, period. I knew way too many dumbshits and assholes during my time. I shudder to think of them having authority to use lethal force on any US citizen ever.
Blind worship of the military is just as bad as blind worship of the police.
Re-evaluation of policing ttps: Yes, I can agree with that.
To those of you crying about the gear/weapons/vehicles: shove it, youre as bad as Feinstien, Bloomberg and the other antis.
Police havent dropped any bombs from FA18s or blitzkrieged us with Abrams and strykers(for those of you that think that humvees are tanks…shut up, youre stupid)
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/14/us/police-drop-bomb-on-radicals-home-in-philadelphia.html
http://www.wnd.com/2003/10/21282/ (tanks used in Waco siege)
Take your own advice and shut up. You’re stupid.
Nice try, but try again, those tanks(Abrams and Bradleys) belonged to TX ARNG, not the police. And you went all the way back to May of 1985 to find that article for me(NY times of all sources, Lol)? Thanks Brother, you truly care.
Also, I wouldnt want to ally/use convicted killers (article 1) and David Koresh(article 2) as my shining examples, as youve just done…I dont think those are people that responsible gun owners really want to be seen associating with. Unless that is whom you like to associate with.
Way to take things out of context. Cheers!
No, completely in context. This nation was founded on the principles of the rights to life, liberty, and property. All are sacred until you violate anothers’. We went from the land of the free to a nation of laws in just under 200 years. There are so many laws on the books that it is impossible to not be a criminal several times a day.
Every major city has a standing SWAT team 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Generally, they are comprised entirely of ex-military, and they do not do standard ‘police work’. When on duty, these teams either train or raid – that is it. When they make a bust, the team typically gets to use some of the seized funds to buy more equipment and more training, thus perpetuating the cycle.
You’re right, and then some. It’s not just major cities, but midsize and smaller, too, which have SWAT teams. Among small cities that don’t have a team of their own, you will find joint SWAT teams consisting of resources and personnel pooled from several neighboring cities.
Even in counties with nothing more than a few larger size towns, not even what you’d call cities, you can find the Sheriff’s Department wielding a SWAT team on behalf of the entire county. And let’s not forget the state police, who have several teams of their own, too.
The Texas Dept. of Public Safety has a rapid response division with helicoptors and all kinds of equipment. They can put an assault squad just about anywhere in the state within an hour or so.
@J-H, yea Texas DPS!!!!!!!
In my city south of Chicago it seems the PO-leece exist only to give speeding tickets or harass everyone( and not just black folks). Cutting back the black ops look would help. Revenue generation is damn near all they do. In my 60some years I have found the most RACIST cops are black. Against other blacks…
Is it me or does it seem like the only guy in the picture not totally geeked up to be going on a raid is the black guy? Just an observation.
Ever see the South Park movie? America going to war with Canada? The military’s plan for chef and his buddies?
The brother in swat apparel is large enough to hide behind. And he just realised it when that photo was took.
“Operation human shield, my ass!”
No no knock raids. Police uniforms, not military uniforms. Hire from local communities when possible. Good starts.
But we, as a people, need to hold pols toes to the fire for every misstep the cops take. Spank the mayors, the governors and the chiefs for a start. Make the guys at the top feel the pain and they’ll reform the troops.
Personally liable, not lawsuit judgements paid out of tax funds.
Changing organizational culture—any organizational culture—is one of the hardest management tasks imaginable. This is one reason most managers move on after a few years in place, leaving their mess for someone else to deal with (and probably ignore). Yet changing police organizational culture is essential if we are to ever get beyond the disturbing drive toward an ever more militarized police. Here are a few suggestions on how to start.
Hiring. Employ only the best and the brightest. Police officers need to be well educated and mentally stable. Patronage and affirmative action hiring practices militate against getting good officers onto the street. Police departments must also exercise great diligence in hiring officers from other departments. Cops with bad records routinely bounce from department to department . . . until they finally do something really stupid at which time we’re always surprised that they manged to stay employed as long as they did. This is normal for industry and it should be normal for cop shops.
Accountability. There is a complete social scientific literature dealing with the police. For at least the past 70 years, discussion after discussion has described the police as being a subculture of American society that sets itself apart and differentiates strongly between itself and the outside world. This insider/outsider dynamic is destructive of good relationships with the public the police are expected to serve. Put another way, police culture is a deviant subculture within American society. This is what people mean when they use the term “blue wall”. We often see it appear in TTAG discussions. To change police culture, the incentives for maintaining loyalty behind the blue wall have to change. This has been tried many times before without much success. It remains the central problem is reforming police behavior.
Oversight. Traditionally, there has been a overly cozy relationship between the police, prosecutors, judges, and politicians. This has been abetted by legal set-asides like implied immunity and departmental internal reviews which never reach a grand jury. There are simply too many questionable cases of police violence that are made to disappear, allowing questionable behavior (SWAT Team mission creep for instance) to be white-washed. ignored, or even rewarded. The best way to short circuit this hoary arrangement is to appoint an independent civil review board to review police conduct and management practices. Control the budget and you can change the culture.
In addition, the double-standard created by implied immunity must be removed. Police behavior must be judged in the exact same way any other citizens’ behavior should be judged by the legal process. Right now, for instance, in cases of self-defense private citizens are often held to a much higher standard of responsibility by the same prosecutors that routinely let police walk away for similar actions. This must stop. Police and private citizens much be treated the same way by the legal system.
Think any of this will happen? Don’t hold your breath.
Well said.
I would also like to see military attitude toned down along with the financial revenue generator goals go away.
Although I don’t advocate acting like an assh0le to the cops just because you can, I’m thankful for the activists who go around filming police, thereby educating them that it is in fact legal to do so. Same for open carry. Sometimes the police forces need to be educated on those rights by activists and court cases, but it should instead be part of police training.
End the war on drugs and de-fund them. Police ourselves better.
1. End collective bargaining for public sector employees.
2. End qualified immunity.
3. Put all local policing under elected sheriffs.
While none of these are remotely likely to happen, any of the three would likely solve the problem.
Ironic, because that is where this nation started out.
Wow….a lot of b/s going on here. First of all, some of you sound like Sharpton and Jackson stereotyping all cops as bad. Playing right into there game…most cops are decent people doing a job. Bad apples exist in every profession. Everyone is missing the point of these last couple incidents. I have a novel idea to send to the A/A community. When you are breaking the law and get caught, don’t resist the arrest. All these idiots are restisting arrest. It seems blacks want the “right” to rape, pillage and plunder at will. When your caught, your caught….
Cops are given power and privilege, that’s a bad combination even in the best hands. Sure, the evidence points to a justified shoot for officer Wilson, but there are plenty of examples of corruption in various forms.
Until the “good” cops start outing and ostracizing their bad brethren, you can shove that “most cops are decent people doing a job” in a tight, dark, smelly orifice of your choosing.
Where have I heard this before? Oh, right. People wanting the ‘silent’ moderate Muslims to fight against the radicals. What’s good for the goose…
The problem is that good cops too often work in bad organizations.
Was the guy who was strangled by a chokehold “resisting arrest”? Was the 12 year old kid with a toy gun?
First dress like regular police again, get out of the cars and walk a beat again, and keep the military stuff for ONLY the use of SWAT teams.
Semper Fi bro. By the what what is the “Military” stuff we need to take away from cops? I have a Glock 17 and Remington 870 is that too “Military”
Topics are being conflated. Darren Wilson, the officer who shot Michael Brown in the incident that precipitated the recent spat of “police vs. black people” narratives was wearing a regular cop uniform, using a regular handgun (anyone there could own) and driving a normal cop car (er… SUV). Not an MRAP. The Garner incident had plainclothes cops but they sure weren’t “militarized.” Stop taking your bugaboo (militarization) and pretending it’s the boogieman behind everything.
If we want to talk about the issue of race and policing we should wonder why every time a white officer kills a black man, regardless of reason or even justification, the media cries racist but when it’s any other color combination there’s no story.
Wilson killed Brown in a one-on-one, life and death situation. It was an encounter that went wrong. Was it Wilson’s military mindset that created the problem? Based on Brown’s strongarm robbery of a store just minutes before his fatal run-in, I’d say no.
Garner was killed by a mob for not paying cigarette taxes. Just because the cops in the Garner death weren’t wearing camo doesn’t remove it from being a paragon of militarism.
I agree that conflating issues sharply diminishes the value of the discussion. Wilson was just doing his job, got attacked, almost killed, and then killed his adversary in a straight-up righteous defensive fight. What followed was a procedural practice that I think is problematical. Am I correct in saying that, under normal circumstances, the event would have been investigated internally by the local PD, supported by the local DA, and declared a justifiable shoot? Normally something like this would never make it to the grand jury. But, if John-the-plumber had been attacked and emptied his magazine at Brown his treatment—by the same PD and DA—would have been entirely different. He would have faced a grand jury and could very well be facing a murder charge for having fired “too many” rounds in his own defense. I’m not exaggerating, this has actually happened. That, I think, is a very serious problem. Free societies don’t fare well when there are such blatant double standards.
Radical defunding. Less/no laws for them to “enforce.”
Combined with making them less relevant, by ensuring all those concerned about their and theirs safety has access to the same kit the cops (and politicos. No particular reason to trust some near-do-well dilettante like Obama with more powerful buttons than any other halfwit) do.
Laughing out loud, literally, file this piece under police state justification/reaffirmation for the herd.
The more I read some of the comments here, the more I think some of you are this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7U5eJN3hLI
Lol
Stop pumping so much money into swat, equip road units with regular, no frills ar-15s for the more serious situations and maybe a plate carrier for said situations. Shift emphasis from swat to training road units in both marksmanship and community relations. Body cams for increased accountability.
Tile, do you think that re-defining when it is acceptable to use deadly force, say to a certainty of harm rather than a perceived threat? Seems that we’re asking cops to take more chances however it goes. Excessive?
Not at all. The cops supposedly sign up for a more risky occupation, that’s their whole point – to put their neck on the line protecting the rest of us against criminals. If they’re not willing to take chances in pursuit of that goal – especially so when it’s directly at the expense of citizens’ safety (i.e. when the choice is between risking to shoot an innocent and risking being shot) – they shouldn’t be in that line of work in the first place.
And their standards for the use of lethal force should be higher than those of civilians, not lower. Civilians are not trained to handle such situations, cops are (or are supposed to be), and they have additional tools like Tazers for that.
The real culprit is the growing gap between the rich and poor. Poverty is not spread evenly but is found in pockets, and when these pockets reach critical mass we get the current result…the more we appear to be a plutocracy, the more the police will be used to control those dealt out of the economy. Shit flows downhill so blacks are getting more than their fair share of abuse. Police abuse is just a symptom of a greater problem. Complicating this is a really rotten culture among the hard core underclass (often black) that the rest of us can’t do much about, not to mention white people who honestly think that the poor are holding them and the country back- the poor control less than 1% of national wealth. I could go on but the point is that this is a very complicated issue that goes far beyond police abuse. A lot needs to change and that will take a long time, time we may not have with thousands taking to the streets. There will be many social Darwinism arguements some of which will very logical unless the dispossessed start shooting.
If “the growing gap between rich and poor” was to blame, should crime be going up instead of down?
Well 4 in 10 black males age 15 to 28 is in jail probation or parole. Prison population at record and we have more people locked up than Russia and China combined. Along with a higher % of population incarcerated in the developed world.
Because in Russia and China they just kill and dispose of anyone they don’t like. You really expect Russia and China to waste money on incarcerating people? I believe China sells the organs of prisoners they execute.
Even the highest estimates are nowhere near what you suggest.
I agree with a lot of what been said here. But Im going to go out on a limb here.
Get Rid of the Non-Lethal options. If the only option is death, the option to abuse it becomes less. If the only option is death there might be a lot less challenge and confrontation. No tazer, no taze me bro. No pepper spray, No campus BS. You’d have to think long and hard about the You break it you bought it when confronting the cops.
Neither Officer Wilson (who shot Mike Brown) nor Officer Justin Damico (who was accused of causing Eric Garner’s death) tried to use less-than-lethal weapons. For that matter, neither did the cop who killed Rumain Brisbon in Phoenix or the one who killed Tamir Rice. None of the killers thought long and hard about anything, except possibly Wilson.
Maybe if the police had deployed tasers or such, one or more of those unarmed men and a 12 year old boy would still be alive. I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure that LTL weapons didn’t make the situations worse.
So…when a 300lb man leans into your vehicle, begins punching you, and reaches for your weapon you are required to deploy pepper spray or a taser? It seems to me that in that situation you are fighting for your life. Do you honestly think Brown was going to stop short of killing him once he had initiated the assault?
I’m as concerned about the militarization of police as anyone, but they also have the same right to defend themselves that everyone else does. Officer Wilson was in a situation in which a reasonable person would have cause to fear death or grievous bodily harm. Lethal force was justified, even if he HAD less lethal equipment available.
Cops can wear all the body cameras in the world. That won’t made a damn difference if they’re not held accountable.
So TTAG is ignoring or pretending that the there is not an overt action by te powers that be to keep a race war ready when they pull the switch?
Not evidence of that or any other conspiracy IMO. Just some politically savvy wealthy folks kicking our butts. IDK how long it will take people to figure it out.
Well you could start off by cutting off funding…
I’ll just leave these here:
http://www.breachbangclear.com/why-i-hate-cops/
http://www.breachbangclear.com/some-truth-about-the-militarization-of-police/
@Jeremy, Spot. The. Fvck. On!!!
Oh look, a bunch of cops (some of them SWAT, looks like) who are unhappy about the prospect of having their toys and their ability to misuse and abuse them with impunity being taken away from them. Cry me a river.
Putting the swat teams under the Sheriff so he has to face reelection would go a long way in making them accountable. It would also force cities to justify their use as they would no longer be free. They would at least have to ask the Sheriff’s permission to use them.
Make city and county government accountable again.
Red
“The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory.” -E. Keith
here’s a good on going conversation on militarized policestate & tyranny by well known YT gunnies & preppers:
The Prepared Mind: Shtf prepper -basis for governance
Resist The Tyranny: Basis For Governance : VR To The Prepared Mind
General Banter: USE OF FORCE – VR to The Prepared Mind Shtf prepper -basis for governance
Abolish government unions and abolish collective bargaining. Nothing has done more to bankrupt cities and counties than politicians giving more and more benefits to the people who donate to them.
And there’s something very wrong when a cop shoots someone and the first thing he does is call his union rep.
The whole system needs reform.
If departments don’t start firing the bad apples from within, then it’s just a matter of time before others start firing on them en masse from without.
Something that I don’t think I saw anyone bring up (and I know it will be unpopular, but…): IF YOU WANT TO “REFORM ‘MILITARIZED’ POLICE… DON’T HIRE FROM THE MILITARY.
The military is great for instilling the “warrior mindset” and decipline, yes; but “the warrior mindset” isn’t something that you want on the streets of the US.
You can’t hire people because of their military background and then be upset when they express their military background while on the job. Military personnel have their place in the police: SWAT and other specialized, high-risk units focused on dealing with overt leathal and dangerous situations; not simple patroling and enforcement.
You can’t “demilitarize” the police… until you de-militarize the police by stopping the hiring people from the military.
Anyone mention here that is becoming standard for police to be trained in Israel? It seems highly unlikely on this Zionist politically charged forum this has been mentioned or discussed.
Zionist politically charged forum? Are you referring to the fact that Dan and I are Jewish?
No, I mentioned nothing about Religion. There are Jews who not zionists and there plenty of non Jewish zionists.
@Pg2, well…I thought I had heard all of the nutter conspiracies out there. But I must admit, this is a new one. I give the blue ribbon today! Congrats on the tin foil award.
Mac, not sure which rock you’ve been living under but sending American police to Israel for training is no conspiracy theory.
@Pg2, sending cops to Israel to learn how to deal with musloid terrorists is a good thing. Unless of course you’ve been living under a rock.
Mac, it’s the fraud/trolls like yourself that really discredit this forum. Curious if you get paid to disrupt any real conversations on this forum and others like it.
@Pg2, and here now I thought it was the tin foilers like yourself that were the problem.
So Mac, you’re denying the the Ferguson police chief received crowd control training is Israel? You’re denying hundreds of police chiefs and sherrifs across the USA have received training in Isarel? You can’t discuss the militarization of the police without this being part of the conversation. Whatever mr. troll.
@Pg2, frankly I have no idea. I only have your comments to go on, you didn’t cite anything factual to back up your claim. But even so, what is wrong with it? If you aren’t an expert in dealing with a new situation that presents, you would be foolish not to reach out to experts that can train you to deal with this new situation. In your Ferguson example, I’m going to assume that the Ferguson PD was not trained up on the latest tactics of dealing with feral hood rats and so they sought help where they could find it. So what?
I hear there is a super sale going on at Walmart on the store brand version of Reynold’s Wrap. “Git you sum bro!”
Hey Mac, try your troll bait elsewhere.
It’s hard not to hire someone with a military background in Israel everyone does a stint in the Army.
Red
To fix over militarized cops you need to take away their war toys so they can’t treat everything like Delta Force, but to really make it stick you need to take away their immunity and enforce accountability.
Have every no knock warrant require every officer involved to sign a document swearing that he is acting on true information and that he will accept full criminal and civil liability for any damage to innocent parties so that every wrong house raid that kills a kid or old lady results in cops being tried for premeditated murder and a multimillion dollar civil suits and if nothing else the insurance companies will shut down the SWAT team mania.
Disarmament is also key, no full auto for any police department and immediate criminal charges and loss of gun rights for any cop using a personal full auto weapon on duty. Also disband and disarm all podunk town SWAT teams, If SWAT is a special response for urban situations, counties should be the smallest entities with SWAT teams and their use and equipment should be tightly controlled.
If the police face real legal consequences for illegal actions, they will start respecting the law instead of trampling it. In addition all police officer’s mandatory annual training should include conflict resolution and de-escalation training, an exam on citizen’s rights, one shot from a Taser and 30 seconds in room full of tear gas with no mask.
The last guy I saw a training record on had spent 5 years taking nothing but MP5 SMG training and “defensive tactics” aka “how to beat up people”, not one class on the law or how to solve problems with machine gunning or hitting.
@sjc, whats that I hear? Banjo music? Or is it the march of an all powerful central godvernment you worship?
1. Terminate the federal program that provides military equipment to police agencies.
2. Get back to the roots of Community policing
3. End “no knock” warrants
4. End the so called “drug war” which serves as a $$$ vehicle for providing much of the military and surveillance equipment
The mindset of “do whatever it takes to go home at the end of the day” is a fatalistic approach to law enforcement. It breeds a culture of shoot first and ask questions later.
Well, if the photo is any indication, then two well places claymores should do just fine.
Comments are closed.