Question of the Day: Should TTAG Be Reporting This Story?

1. Seems like a moot question now.

   • But seriously, this story seems like a stretch. If a story involves improper use of a firearm by a concealed carry holder, then that would be fair game.

     • I look at it as a reminder not to become so confidant in our own righteousness that we give propaganda ammunition to our ideological opponents.

       • Agree. If an entire anti-gun/anti-gun-rights industry has been created just to infringe our freedoms, maybe we should let them do their own research.

     • I can see this story being relevant from the standpoint of the cops going after him aggressively because he had a ccw permit.

       As a permit holder, should he be assumed to be more dangerous to apprehend? It’s a fair question to ask, I think.

       As for the larger question, I say yeah, sure. It’s truthful to focus on the real problems and issues when they arise, not to try to pretend some truths are too inconvenient to mention.

       Plus, it is SO MUCH FUN when anti trolls come by with claims like “ya’ll never say x, now do you” and there’s a long list of links to discussions on how PotG do, in fact, call bad guys out when they are bad guys, regardless of position held on gun rights.

       Hope that makes sense…

     • I’m inclined to agree on this front. If the story doesn’t specifically involve the use of a firearm it doesn’t really seem relevant. If it involves a high profile POTG I can understand that, but barring that it strikes me more as fluff.

     • Agreed. The fact that he owned and carried (I’m assuming these are both past tense now) a gun is no more relevant to this situation than the fact that he’s a former marine, or that he owns an SUV.

     • Ditto.

   • Exactly. “Should TTAG twist and break this man’s arm?” (photo of broken arm)

   • If I may confess, I clicked on the article in the first place because at a quick glance I thought that was George Zimmerman. “Oh Georgie Boy, what ludicrous hijinks are you up to now?”, I thought to myself.

     • Me too.

     • First thought in my mind as well, until I took about a 3rd look at the picture and realized it was his Doppelganger.

     • What made you think this was Zimmerman? Zimmerman had no injuries. Remember?

   • Moot question yes. However if TTAG does not report, then you are just as bad as the rest of the drive by media and blogs. Reporting on issues that involve gun owners good or bad makes you guys better then EVERYONE else, and proves your not just a gun nut site and in fact are an actual news organization. Just my 2 cents worth.

   • We are all presuming the worst of this guy. I am willing to at least hear his defense. Innocent until proven guilty. As someone else mentioned this is not pedophilia, it is statutory rape.

     As for the shovel and duct tape. I have an entrenching tool and duct tape in my truck, and I almost always have a firearm with me.

     Let me hear from all the guys who have never been propositioned by a female under the age of 18.

2. Had this been James Yeager, Leonard Embody or MikeB then TTAG would be all over this. It is the Armed Intellegensia responsibility to out our members who run afoul of the law. So Yes, report on….

   • I agree with the sentiment, but I’m pretty sure this creep isn’t a member of any “intelligentsia”, armed or otherwise.

     • Touche.

   • “Should TTAG shy away from stories where gun guys and gals go bad?”

     Stinkeye is absolutely right – CCW or not, he is not a Person of the Gun or a member of the Armed Intelligentsia.

     Like all other bureaucratic BS, the (unconstitutional) rules imposed for citizens to obtain permission from the government to exercise their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms are entirely arbitrary and cannot in any way be a guarantee that the holder of that permission slip is actually a good guy. TTAG and all People of the Gun should take every opportunity to disavow these miscreants. You are judged by the company you keep – we want no part of him or his ilk.

     And by the way…does anybody REALLY believe that if he had been denied his CCW he would not have brought that pistol with him to this rendezvous?

   • >Had this been James Yeager, Leonard Embody or MikeB

     Jesus I could only dream… then those jerkoffs could do no more harm to my choice of self defense mechanisms, ie my 2nd Amendment Rights.

3. We should always be calling out our own much like we call out corrupt cops.

   • Correct…

     Also, I was about to comment about the handgun, shovel, and duct tape, but then I thought about the contents of my own trunk. When you list them out they sound sinister, even though they’ve just been put there through years of random accumulation:

     “He had in his trunk paper towels, a gallon of antifreeze, a piece of carpet, and a length of cable wrapped around a piece of wood”- EEVVIIILLLLL!!!

     • Obviously the man meant no harm, and had only peaceful intentions, because, you know, he has his concealed carry permit and must be a basically ok person.

     • When I was into tanning animal hides I kept a kit in my trunk in case I needed to pick up some fresh roadkill. It was pretty sketchy with latex gloves, garbage bags and a knife, Plus the duct tape, rope and other fun items I just had in my trunk anyways.

       • OK that’s just weird. That’s a bizarre hobby you had there. Chicks must have been all over you like a cheap suit.

       • please tell me you had chloroform too.

     • “A length of cable wrapped around a piece of wood” could actually describe a WWI “trench club” that I saw in a book. Which kind of makes your point, I guess.

     • In my ride, they’d find a helluva lot more than a handgun, duct tape, and a shovel. See, some of us (particularly in the northern climates) drive around with an entire readiness bag all day, every day, should we run into a “problem.” I could list all the stuff in there, but I’d likely run out of room here in this text box. Needless to say, I carry at least a handgun, duct tape, and a shovel (technically an entrenching tool, I guess).

       • I live in CA, earthquake country. I have a laundry list of gear in my trunk that could be concieveably be used to paint me in a bad light if I was crusing 14 yo girls for sex.

       • Let’s see, if I get pulled over they would find, shovel, rope, chain, ratchet straps, duct tape, tarp, chainsaw, gas can, firearm, all I seem to be missing is the bag of lye… and a 14yo girlfriend.

4. Eh, he was doing illegal stuff, but not with guns. If his crime was committed with his firearm, then sure, but his unsound moral character… doesn’t interest me. Unfortunately anybody has the capacity to be a pedo, CCW or not.

   • I tend to agree. I also questioned why TTAG put a story up about a cop caught shoplifting for the same reason… the gun is there, but it’s not relevant. If we were to get constitutional carry and half the population carried a gun, would TTAG find it necessary to post every news story because they have guns present?

   • “Unfortunately anybody has the capacity to be a pedo, CCW or not.” I’m sure you meant to phrase this more like…”You never know who is a pedo”.

     If not, I, for one, do not possess the capacity to be a pedo.

     • Just to be clear, he’s not *technically* a pedophile. He *is* guilty of statutory rape.

       Pedophiles are sexually attracted to individuals that are physically immature. A 14 year old is unlikely to qualify by that definition. Not that this makes him less of a creep…

   • No – if a gun isn’t directly involved, it doesn’t matter. The fact that he had a CCW seems to have little bearing here.

     I doubt the “TruthAboutCars” website reports on every infraction of drivers license holders even if it didn’t involve a car (I just made that up, I don’t actually know if there is such a site).

     • Time for a history lesson. Any takers?

     • Ok, I’ll do it:

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Truth_About_Cars

       • I didn’t see any “Driver’s License holder tries to pick up underage girl” articles so I think the point is still valid.

       • Haha of course there would be a “The Truth About Cars”, and of course it would be a Robert Farago creation. I had no idea until you posted that link.

5. You take the good with the bad. He should maybe have some more bruises I think. You know, he tripped and fell.

6. Not inappropriate at all. If we don’t police ourselves they will with a much broader brush. They try to do this anyway, but no reason to give them more to bitch about.

7. OK, so we have an alleged sexual predator that managed to allegedly escape police notice most of his life, has a clean record and gets a concealed weapons permit – issued by the “government”, right? This is the same “government” that progressives believe should run our lives, right? So the alleged scum allegedly commits a crime, is caught, and now (if convicted) will lose his carry permit and he won’t get another one, right?

   Seems to me that the system works – you are considered innocent until proven guilty, So if he had not been convicted of a prior offense, why shouldn’t he get a permit?

   Of course, the subtext on this story for the media is “See? – people who own guns are evil.”

8. Report it all, we have nothing to hide.

9. There are 10 million (+?) CCW holders across the US… As it stands, CCW holders on the whole are many times more law-abiding than the average citizen and more law-abiding than LEO’s. That being said, every group is going to have it’s bad apples. Let’s not be like the anti’s have been with the Leland Yee case.

   • Makes me wonder: What would be a pro-gun equivalent of Leland Yee?

     • RF conducting clandestine, no-knock confiscation raids with California and NY SWAT.

     • Wayne LaPierre being a super secret agent for the American Psychological Association… or the Board Game Industrial Complex!

10. Seeing as how TTAG reports on every cop that farts wrong, I don’t see a problem with you reporting on this RF. Afterall, good for the goose, good for the gander.

    • Bingo!

    • I was trying to think of a reason to disagree with you Mac, but I can’t. Logic prevails.

11. If you are reporting the truth (ie The Truth About Guns) you need to report both the good and the bad. AND by all of us gun owners being honest about those of us who are bad and do bad things and condemning their actions, we stand on the high ground. We can show that as responsible gun owners, we do know the truth and are aware of the bad apples and wish to weed them out just as much as anyone. Sort of leaves the other side with less of a point to make.

12. He may have broken the law, but the laws he broke had nothing to do with his firearm. As someone who has seen punishment before the crime vilified on this very site, I would hope to see stories that are a bit more relevant to firearms.

    That said, I’m gonna visit this site multiple times a day no matter what you write.

    • Agree with the above- as a general guideline, if the offense is unrelated to the firearm, it’s not particularly relevant to TTAG.

      With that said, in this particular situation, that they called in the Tac Team to apprehend someone with no prior convictions (and possibly no prior arrests) because he had a carry permit pushes at least one aspect of the case into being relevant.

13. The justice system cannot, and should not aspire to, and never will be able to, catch criminals before they commit crimes. That is a part of why we have a natural right to keep and bare arms in defense of self, property, and family against all who would cause us unearned harm (this creep, if convicted, has earned the harm of incarceration and loss of rights).

    Nobody should expect criminal background checks to be perfect.

14. Why not? So we can hide our heads in the sand? You should run stories like this, if for nothing else, it reminds us all that evil is out there (which is why we choose to protect ourselves and our families in the first place) but also, as educated people, it helps us keep in perspective the issues that make the firearms debate contentious. Not reporting it won’t make it go away…give us a chance to understand and debate it here, amongst “friends”, so we can be better prepared to debate it in public.

15. I wouldn’t shy away from it. The site is called ‘the truth about guns’ not ‘selective stories about guns chosen to buttress our beliefs and positions a la Mom’s Demand Illegal Mayors and Guns and Stuff and Things’.

    ‘Beware when you battle monsters lest he become a monster, for when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares also into you’ – Nietzsche

16. Didn’t know pedophilia included teenagers. (Spoilers: it doesn’t)

    • I guess that depends on where you live. 14 and under are defined as “children” in a bunch of states, and sex with a 14 y/o is treated as pedophilia, not just statutory rape.

      • Pedophilia by medical definition is a sexual attraction to prepubescent individuals, and by age 14 most have hit the early stages puberty.
        Any sex a man has with a minor is auto-labeled pedophilia though, because it’s a more outrageous headline, and makes conviction on any kind of evidence easier. Unsurprisingly, women having sex with a minor is brushed off as ‘inappropriate intercourse’ and the word ‘pedophile’ is as rare as Bigfoot in the desert.

        The guy’s a sexual predator, but pedophile is the wrong term. Hebephile is the more likely case.
        As for the contents of his vehicle, it would be a real shame if that’s admissible evidence [without solid proof of nefarious intent] considering what many people carry in their own cars, trucks and SUVs.

        • Chris, here’s a much abbreviated list of women who would doubtless disagree with your comment that their sexual misbehavior with minors was “brushed aside”: Ethel Anderson, Laura Whitehurst, Pamela Ann Fahy, Ashley Wolfe, Lisa Kays, Devri DePriest , Michele Johnson, Linda Leann Wallace, Summer Michelle Hansen, Kelly Garcia, Malia Brooks… And, of course, who can forget Mary Kay Letorneau? A more complete listing of females deemed to be pedophiles, running to 211 examples, can be found at http://crime.about.com/od/sex/ig/female_pedophiles/.

17. should TTAG shy away from stories where gun guys and gals go bad?

    Yes it should, unless the transgression involves the misuse of their guns. A gun owner diddling a 14 year old girl isn’t a gun story and shouldn’t be covered here.

    I would also object to a post about a cop being arrested for sexual abuse of a 14 year old girl, like the one reported below.

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-03-19/news/bs-md-ho-baltimore-officer-hagee-arrested-20140319_1_howard-county-police-police-witness-police-officer

    Neither story is TTAG-worthy because neither relates to guns.

    • ^This^

      His irresponsibility had absolutely nothing to do with having a gun, but rather being a pervert.

      So unless TTAG is going to report on every instance of bad judgment committed while owning a gun or possessing a CCW its irrelevant. Like saying Bob the account was arrested today for embezzlement, and he had a gun…in a safe…in his house…on the other side of town.

      It if didn’t involve a use, a brandishing, or a discharge…its not news its just a factoid and irrelevant to the debate.

    • I have to agree. IGOTD is totally within the ambit of the “truth about guns”, but this story had nothing to do with the use or misuse of a firearm, nor a DGU or shoulda been a DGU nor a review of a new shiny firearm. That is the draw of the site.Beware of drifting off message. The Bundy story was the same–it had nothing to do with guns. No guns were used, seized, or banned, nor was it a story about the abuse by the government of second amended rights.

      • I have to disagree with you about Bundy, Mark N. Or do you believe that the Feds would have backed off if the protesters weren’t well armed? ‘Cause I sure don’t, and the Feds admitted as much when the head of the BLM stated:

        “Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public.”

        I don’t think he was concerned about his employees getting trampled in a stampede.

      • I think the Bundy situation was/is a bit different. Though not
        having anything directly to do with a specific firearm incident;
        it does show the militarization of fed agencies (of questionable
        constitutionality); increasingly aggressive/overt tactics to
        enforce dubious regulations; and it shows a direct example
        of the 2A in action, an armed populace turning back a hostile
        government force from extra legal overreach (with 0 shots
        fired no less).

    • +1000

    • Not specifically, Ralph.

      If you read the news reporting of the arrest THEY made it a point to bring up the fact that police knew he had a permit and might be armed. Once that bit of data is out to the public, and I’m sure the reporter had no agenda in including it in the story, since the gun was not an issue in the end (/sarc), it is entirely appropriate that those of us who are NOT pedophiles, rapists, or any other sort of Bad Guy should acknowledge that although he had a government issued permit this asshole is NOT an accredited member of OUR club, just someone who got past the government’s unconstitutional screening process.

      After all, we obtain our concealed carry permission slips just so we won’t get thrown in jail if we carry in public, not because we believe they have any other valid purpose.

      • The MSM reports what they want, how they want and when they want, whether it’s true or not, as long as it fits the agenda. In fact, the entire MSM is completely agenda-driven.

        As to this story being covered by TTAG, I don’t know why it should. But if it and stories like it are going to be covered, then why not cover every bad act by every cop in America? Don’t they have guns too?

        We already decided that we weren’t going to do that, even though policemisconduct.net gave us permission to repost. I agreed with that decision.

18. Report the story, but context needs a little adjustment. Anti-gunners will say, “See, you can’t trust anybody with a gun”. Pro-gunners will say, “See, you can’t trust anybody so you better have a gun.”

19. What cracks me up about stories like this is; 14/15 used to be nothing for a girl to be getting married, but in the name of “civilized growth” people now either label people who get married this young as trash or some other insult targeting their locale or education or heritage.

    It was acceptable for a girl of 15 to wed a man who was upwards of 40. Now we call them pedophiles and lock them up. This still applies in some cultures, and we call those cultures 3rd-world as we imply they are “less intelligent”.

    Is progress a good thing if it is not balanced? I don’t know. I think we’ve lost a lot of ourselves in the name of progress and becoming civilized.

    And just because this douchebag has a concealed carry permit, shouldn’t be a reason to draw more attention to it. If you’re going to talk about him because he’s a pedophile, then there’s a reason. Adding ‘Hey he’s got a permit to carry concealed’ is tantamount to adding ‘He votes republican, owns a Buick, goes to church, teaches at Sunday school, and drives his dear old mother to the doctor’s office.’

    Why not just say he’s male and all men are pedophiles and be done with it?

    • It was acceptable for a girl of 15 to wed a man who was upwards of 40.

      I don’t think that marriage was what Seisdedos had in mind.

    • While historically you are accurate and young maidens were often married off to older men at a very tender age, these were seldom random meetings or short-term “hook-ups” just for sex, although I cannot vouch for the conditions or staff of bordellos.

      The abuse of young girls by men who were not approved by the family, or who only wanted sex without commitment, or worse yet who intended to do harm to the girl during or following the meeting, has NEVER been condoned in any civilized society that I am aware of.

      The problem looms larger today in the self-presumed sophistication of our young people, sexual precociousness, and the willingness of some older men (mostly) to use this tendency to prey on young girls. It is unfortunate that our modern “social media” gives them even more opportunities and access to potential victims.

20. Millions of permit holders in the nation and the number of permit holders who commit crimes starts with .000.

    I am good with that fact!

21. If it isn’t anomalous and negative, it isn’t news.

    Yet what people see on the news, they take to be commonplace.

22. I think the IGOTD is one of the more important parts of this website.

    We should shame those who irresponsibly use weapons and call for harsh punishment of those who use them in crime. They are not us and we need to make that clear.

    We differ from the anti’s not in wanting crime punished- we agree there- we differ in that we do not advocate trying to create a world where no one can ever commit crime. Liberty and Justice instead of Control in the name of ‘public safety’.

23. The facts are still on our side no matter how many bad actors We, The Armed Intelligentsia, rightfully out for their misdeeds. Even if you only exclusively highlight bad actors, that won’t ever change.

    There are well in excess of 8 million concealed-carry permit holders across the U.S., and yet, the per-capita rate for these people (myself included) for violent crime (meaning the numbers ARE harmonized for the population disparity) are orders of magnitude LOWER than the general populous.

    If we truly want to claim that we have nothing to hide, and we don’t by the way, then I say go ahead and start another column on it. Let the sexist, racist, anti-rights, anti-Humanist bigots in the civilian disarmament industrial complex say whatever the Hell they want: the only thing that matters is that we are incontrovertibly RIGHT.

    Again.

    Still.

    More.

    And the beat goes on.

    • Well said, sir.

      And I repeat my comment of above – Does anyone really think he would have left the gun at home if he had been denied a CCW?

24. I think it’s important to pull no punches when anyone is acting the fool, whether it’s Feinstein, Watts, an irresponsible gun owner, or this piece of work. It’s just another indication of our side’s honesty, integrity and dedication to the truth about guns.

25. This article had nothing to do with firearms or the RTKBA.

    • Neither did the Bundy nonsense, but TTAG was all over that like white on rice.

      • Ignoring the over arching 2A theme…and that people being armed actually is what allowed for the outcome, you are spot on as always there Paul.

        *eye roll*

        • Don’t mess with Pope Paul.

    • Actually Skylor, the media and grabber types tend to latch on to these kinds of stories and highlight that the perpetrator has a gun, or as in this case has a CCW, and insinuate that other people of the gun are likely to be prone to bad acts too just because, well – they have guns.

      Lefty media spent a lot of air time doing just that with the Zimmerman case particularly right after the Martin DGU occurred. NBC especially tried to portray Zimmerman as ‘racist’ – remember the deceptively edited “he looks black” statement Zimmerman made to the dispatchers questions? Certainly that helped give legs to the race baiters when NBC misrepresented the facts right at the outset of the story.

      Certainly if the Bundy story continued and some tragedy occurred the fact that some of Bundy’s supporters were armed would have been highlighted as the cause of the tragedy – because – well *they* had guns.

      So these stories can very well be of concern to POTG for reasons of the anti-gun media politics in play.

26. Sometimes the “Truth” hurts a little, but doesn’t make it less true. In this case, there’s no doubt in the truth that this guy was a piece of crap and deserves the worst our penal system has to offer.

27. Some people abuse their first amendment freedoms through libel and slander. Still doesn’t mean everybody should lose those rights because some people use them to do harm. Living in an echo chamber isn’t going to change that, and is an excellent way to lose touch with what is really happening in the world.

28. It should be reported on TTAG.
    It is the exception that proves the rule.
    In the police dept.I served a city prosecutor for 71/2 and academy instructor for 13years, they had a tradition. Any member convicted of a crime and subsequently dismissed from the force had his or her picture immediately excised from their respective academy graduating class photo, and their individual picture in the hall was forever removed from its frame.
    Ditto with this guy. The firearms community should address aberrant behavior with a hearty, “That’s not who we are!”, just as that police dep. does.

    • I don’t know. I’m with the others that suggest that the pedo himself isn’t a gun story. Would this show up on fishing sites if the pedo happened to be an avid fly fisherman?

      However, as a story on anti-2A and anti-carry spin by the media, this is worthy of mention by TTAG.

    • “Any member convicted of a crime and subsequently dismissed from the force had his or her picture immediately excised from their respective academy graduating class photo, and their individual picture in the hall was forever removed from its frame.”

      I have a small problem with this procedure. That is, it was exactly what the communists did in Soviet Russia when a former member was declared a non-citizen, they went back to every photo and every book and they deleted that person as though he had never existed.

      To be honest that person needs to be acknowledged, as does his later misdeeds, as an object lesson to all those following. I would re-mount his picture in a black frame and a large red X over his face and a small plaque underneath containing the facts of his later criminal behavior. This would be an honest lesson to any who saw this picture in the future that passing the initiation test does not automatically make you forever after a righteous human being.

      Whether or not they have slipped through the unconstitutional government permit process, we need to acknowledge people who misuse firearms and disavow them.

29. As I was reminded the other day, “If it involves guns, it’s fair game.”

    If all TTAG publishes are stories about bad cops and bad anti-gunners but nary a word about a bad-pro-gun person….it would not be telling “the truth about guns.”

    • I think we could use a new heading: Phony Evangelist of the Day.

      • Tru dat.

        I would suspect that a significantly high percentage of Bad Guys, from hooligans to mass murderers, are “Pro-gun.” Why wouldn’t they be?

        Just because the government, in their infinite wisdom, issued a permission slip to carry a pistol doesn’t mean the person is automatically one of the Good Guys.

        • “I would suspect that a significantly high percentage of Bad Guys, from hooligans to mass murderers, are “Pro-gun.” Why wouldn’t they be?”

          Bad guys might be pro-gun, but not the way we usually mean it (i.e., against gun control). Bad guys would be very pro gun control.

        • And there you have it – Pro gun for me, NO GUN for you.

          Pretty much the way all the anti-2A groups roll – Pro gun for our all-powerful, all knowing government, NO GUNS for you peons.

          Criminals is criminals.

30. “And speaking of Chris Hansen, the TV show’s host, did you know he was filmed cheating on his wife with a woman 21 years his junior?”

    Poisoning the well, a logical fallacy. More to the point, his actions with another consenting adult are not equivalent to involving yourself with someone who cannot make informed consent due to age. Don’t weaken your message with such attacks.

    That being said, these stories need to be put our front. Does his gun ownership inform his actions? If not, then that’s like saying ‘a Jew ran a stop sign, therefore all Jews are criminals!’

31. “Police, who reportedly came equipped with a tactical team because of his concealed-weapons permit they can…”

    Fixed it.

32. “If To Catch a Predator is any indiction, Mr. Seisdedos’ cuts, scrapes and bruises are down to the fact that cops like to tackle pedophiles and mash their faces into the pavement.”

    They are not the only ones who would “like to do that” …. he got off lucky, but he probably won’t be so lucky with his new roommates in the hoosegow.

33. Why the question? Are you asking if you should close the barn door after you let the horse out?
    😀

34. I think it’s important to note that he isn’t guilty of using his legally obtained firearm for ill or his concealed carry permit. From what I understand many people who lose their permits usually do so because of something non-firearm related. It doesn’t matter who you are, we are all capable of doing bad things regardless of what tests we pass.

    • I don’t know where to look, or even where to start looking, but it would be interesting if someone could publish the data on the numbers of permits that have been revoked and the exact reason for that revocation.

      THAT would be an interesting statistic.

      • It’s not that exactly, but still interesting: John Lott has published discussion on the number of permits DENIED that were subsequently granted on appeal…false “positives” if you will.

        The relevancy being how the anti’s use those original denial numbers to inflate their cause but in fact showing real problems with the net efficacy of the background check system in general.

        The anti’s would likewise trot out every example of a permit being pulled (or permit holder turned bad guy), like that dude that shot the kid over the loud music. He gets mentioned a lot.

        That they mostly only mention him tells me they may not have all that many examples to point to.

35. I think he’s worthy of a IGOTD, or maybe AGOTD, since he’s obviously an A-hole, but the fact that he had a CCW permit and a gun on him when arrested are about all that’s making this gun-related. Even as a pedo-scumbag, he displayed better sense than a lot of hoods and didn’t try to shoot it out with the cops. So I guess part of that CCW training paid off.

    • I’d venture that sexual predators probably find a way to arm themselves regardless of the law – gun, or otherwise.

36. If you want to call yourself the TRUTH about guns then the answer is a no brainer. It’s what will set gun rights supporters apart from groups like moms demand action who cant erase opposing facts fast enough from their forums.

    • YES! I doubt we will ever see a report on the MDA or MAIG websites of their members who have been arrested for gun crimes.

37. This tells me three things:

    1) it proves background checks are useless at stopping crime.
    2) Some number of people out of a much larger number are bound to be bad.
    3) Cops are abusive of their authority, especially when they feel morally superior.

    None of these is a surprise. Why not report on it – it changes none of the facts on our side?

    • I wouldn’t necessarily ascribe the arrestee’s wounds to the cops. Somebody in jail might have done it. That old bromide about how the regular jailbirds feel about child molesters, like most such things, is based on fact. I have actually seen that happen.

38. should TTAG shy away from stories where gun guys and gals go bad?

    Personally, my feeling is this, as the father of a soon to be teenage daughter: There will be a rack at the front door holding shells, individually labeled with the names of my daughter’s boyfriends. I will randomly put one used shell with “Mike” on it just to drive home the point.

    ok, that’s sort of a joke, but I feel that carry is just as likely if not more so to be protecting people as it is being abused. Sure, some CCW holders turn out to be bad people. But a heck of a lot more prohibited people turn out to be bad people and ignore the law and obtain firearms anyway. If the facts are on your side, why hide them? Ralph might quibble its not a gun story, but I would say any story that involves a predator like Seisdedos typically also involves disarmed unprepared prey. Plus, as the father of a soon to be teenage daughter, any story where a secual predator gets a come-uppance gets a fist pump.

39. If you shy away from stuff like this it wouldn’t be very truthful would it? 🙂

40. Basically, I think we have to be honest. If our strength is that we have the facts, and not just feelings and intuition, on our side, we can’t be afraid of the facts.

41. Absolutely, you should show the bad along with the good. Omitting unfavorable facts is just as bad as lying, and I don’t think you can call this site The Truth about Guns without presenting the whole truth.

    Part of what makes us different from them is that when one of ours does wrong, we call them out. Keep doing that.

42. It may be some delicious, if misplaced, irony for some, but Chris Hanson’s troubles are irrelevant to anything here or on his show. His betrayal of his wife with another consenting adult is a matter between the three of them, and likely their respective lawyers, employers, and agents; but not us.

    Even this guy’s, Antonio Seisdedos, activities are of no interest to me, other than as a concerned citizen who deplores sex crimes in general and victimization of children in particular. That he happens to possess a valid concealed carry license is irrelevant.

    The license is only relevant if his crimes involve a firearm, and even then only if the use of the firearm is related to the carry license. For example, if he murders someone in his own home with a shotgun, and has a concealed carry license, then that license had nothing to do with the crime. If he murders someone with his lawfully carried sidearm out in public someplace, then it’s related. But a sex crime, which doesn’t even involve a firearm other than it happened to be in the car? Completely irrelevant and unworthy of mention in a firearms-dedicated forum.

    Really, regardless what make and model of car he was driving while perpetrating this alleged crime, I guarantee they’re not discussing this story on The Truth About Cars.

    • Even if it was an El Camino with Astro-Turf (“Don’t ask me why…snicker”) in the back?

43. Ok, so a skeezy dude is arrested for some bad crimes and he happens to have a permit from a _shall_issue_ state is news? All it means is there was no disqualifying event on record. This isn’t really interesting other than the “this dude is really creepy, got a what-fer, and hope there were no other children he preyed upon”. There are much more important and relevant things going on in this country.

44. I would just like to add to the chorus and say that this story is not at all relevant to why I come to TTAG every day. Stories like this I can read on the regular news; I come here for gun info.

    • Oh My Lord!

      Actually, why YOU come to this site every day has little to do with why the rest of us stop by. I often come across articles here that are of little or no interest to me. I scan them, shrug my shoulders and move on, but I do not ever claim that they should not have been posted because they didn’t interest ME.

      • I answered a question that was posed in the post. Ordinarily, when I see an article that is irrelevant to me, I skip it and say nothing. However, my reply was quite appropriate to the QUESTION that was ASKED within this post.

        So, what’s your problem?

45. Maybe he was goin to go fill the condoms with cocaine ten go bury the coca in a hole he dug with the shovel and had duct tape in case his shovel broke. He had the handgun for protection against his drug supplier. Thoughts?

    To be serious for a moment, pedophiles deserve to have the shit beat out of them, if I had it my way, the penalty for being a sexual predator would be death.

46. In this case, no; his CCW is less relevant than whether he has a drivers license as far as the story is concerned.

    In general, yes, I think you should report on “bad guy with a CCW” stories. Or even “clueless…”

    First, they demonstrate at some level that you’re not cherry-picking only the ones that put POTG in a favorable light. That’s a moral high ground.

    Second they can serve as cautionary tales … often evoking tsk-tsking and finger-pointing and “I’d never…” ing … But it’s less expensive and painful to learn from the mistakes of others rather than trying them on yourself, especially if it’s not evil but thoughtlessness on display. You’re already doing this at some level with the IGOTD stories, in any case.

    • “In this case, no; his CCW is less relevant than whether he has a driver’s license as far as the story is concerned.”

      Except as the anti-2A crowd will use this as a reason to demonize EVERYONE with a CCW, neither is actually relevant. If he had no driver’s license, no auto insurance, or the car was stolen, and no CCW permit, do you think he would have walked, unarmed, to this rendezvous?

      Government “permission” to use a tool is not the same as government permission to commit a crime with that tool.

47. In order to explore the ethics [and] morality of any topic, it’s useful (if not necessary) to bring light to good things and bad things.

48. This story in no way relates to guns except insomuch as the cops came loaded for bear and assface did in fact have a gun.

    Had he used or brandished it, the story might have a place here; since he didn’t, it doesn’t.

    Shovel and DUCK tape, though… kinda wonder why the condoms, then.

    May he spend a long time making special friends with Bubba the Iron Pumper.

    • Could be to keep DNA evidence from being transferred.
      However, I question whether the shovel and duck tape were really involved in anything. There are lots of good reasons to have duck tape in a vehicle as well as a shovel (I’ve got one in case I get stuck or any other number of reasons). Knowing how much the media loves to vilify gun owners I’ll wait for a court verdict or confession to really say what he planned to do after the sex. Either way, he’s not somebody I exactly want on the streets

49. ” Cops are abusive of their authority, especially when they feel morally superior.”
    BDub, first it might not have been the po- po who kicked the crap out of him, and secondly, are you saying you wouldn’t have kicked the crap out of him?

50. I think it should be reported and discussed. If you choose to only show the positive side involving guns, then you are no better than the main stream media that chooses to only show the bad so as to rile up the gun control advocates.

    Unfortunately, eventhough it has nothing to do with the illegal actions for which he was arrested, the only reason this is relevant, is because in the reporting it was stated he holds a CCW permit. Again to show that cun carrying citizens are bad people.

51. The only thing this has to do with firearms is the fact that since he had a concealed handgun permit, that piece of information caused the police to bring extra man/fire power due to a known potential of facing an armed threat (or so the media reported it as such).

    The thing that doesn’t make sense with that is anyone, carry permit holder or not, could be carrying a firearm. I’m not sure how the odds are determined that make the decision to bring a tactical team with you or not though, but a carry permit as a sole reason doesn’t seem to make sense to me… Man is pedophile, man has carry permit = bring tactical team. Man is just pedophile = no tactical team needed? That’s what the article suggests by it’s phrasing. That doesn’t in anyway mean he wouldn’t be armed. Chances of him being armed if he didn’t have a carry permit, but knowingly about to commit a crime, are probably even higher.

    I think the reason to report something like this on TTAG is the fact that we can’t truly trust if the media is reporting speculative information or not, and if so, does it make conceal carry permits look like they’re used for criminal intent (did they really bring the tactical team just because he has a carry permit, or were there other reasons we’re unaware of?).

    We know most get a carry permit for good intention, not for criminal intent, but non-gun owners may not have that knowledge/interpretation and be given the wrong impression.

    It’s potential for a forced perspective by the media.

52. Sure report on this creep. It’s ONLY relevant because he had a ccw. No ccw-no reporting. No problem.

53. C’mon, how many other people who have done bad things, maybe not as bad as this guy, who also happened to possess a CCW, have you reported on? If a guy gets caught shoplifting and is found to have a CCW, are you going to report on it? Maybe someone who doesn’t police their dogs excrement? OMG, he’s got a CCW! Does it mean all CCW holders shoplift and don’t pick up after their dogs? No. The shovel and duct tape are far more disturbing and relevant than his CCW. If he was planning a kidnap and murder, which now seems a good possibility, then having a CCW isn’t going to stop him from having a gun, or committing the crime. Unless they use their gun, then a FOX-like reality show called “When CCW Holders Go Bad” is just needless/pointless self-flagellation. On the other hand, checking his political affiliations and voting record might be more relevant.

54. I worked at a prison for a while. One of the things I learned there was that the average law abiding adult male just does not wake up one morning and decide today would be a good day to molest a child.

    Pedophiles, or whatever name you wish to call them, have been satisfying their urges against the weak and helpless since they were kids themselves. No doubt this man has a history, undocumented, of the same thing.

    As for the cops response. They knew the man was likely armed because he had a ccw. So they hit him hard and fast. Leaving him in a locked vehicle with a gun was not an acceptable move once they revealed themselves.

    A few superficial scuffs are nothing when they could have dumped mags on an armed man that was not complying with their orders.

    Should TTAG report this? I say no on this particular case because the crime did not involve his gun. If he was a ccw holder that settled a fender bender with a gun, then yes write it.

55. Should TTAG report this story?

    Yes, unless TTAG wants to be lumped in with propaganda hack sites like NRA and GOA, who never met a gun user they didn’t like. It’s stories like this that keep me actually reading TTAG on a regular basis. I don’t read GOA anymore because it won’t acknowledge any view that doesn’t agree with the POV of gun manufacturers.

56. If a legal CCW holder with a gun does something bad that’s gun-related, you should feel comfortable reporting it. Glad the cops got this guy, but how relevant is the story to TTAG? Just because he can carry a firearm? Are you also planning to cover every crime that takes place in every Constitutional carry state? That’s gonna take up a lot of bandwidth.

57. “Police, who reportedly came equipped with a tactical team because of his concealed-weapons permit…”

    That singular phrase is the crux of this story for me. Did the cops really approach this particular suspect differently because of his CCW? Are CCW pedophiles more likely to carry than non-CCW pedophiles? Would the cops have considered the risks of arresting this particular pedophile to be any lower if he did not have a CCW?

    Those are the questions I am most curious about. Outside of that question, this is not a gun-related story.

58. I say run the story, and others like it. Hold this up and say “we do not condone this behavior, this is not who we are and what we stand for, and we will not tolerate it”. The fact that this guy had a carry permit means next to nothing. If anything, it shows that the rest of us who are good people need to continue to be vigilant, and continue to hold ourselves and our brothers/sisters in arms to the highest standards. I, for one, won’t let this guy be lumped in with us.

    • And to continually point out that the vast majority of law-abiding gun owners would have gladly shot this guy’s dick off, given even half a legal opportunity.

59. Meh, not relevant. Going down this road will make TTAG the Kotaku of gun culture. Kotaku is Gawker’s video game “blog” and will report anything vaguely incidentally related to games, that pretty much go like this:

    “Look at this stupid crazy nongame shit from Korea/Japan/China because some of their people make games!”

    “Dorito tacos! Because we still think all gamers are socially inept slobs!”

    There’s too much dumb tabloid shit on the web as it is; TTAG should best avoid becoming more of the same.

60. I don’t mind TTAG pointing out when a criminal has a permit, so long as they point out when a criminal does NOT have a permit.

    Por ejemplo, if TTAG reports that Billy Bob robbed a convenience store, and they find no evidence he had a carry permit, it should be noted.

61. Only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a mom calling the PoPo….

62. Truthaboutguns
    Not truth about pedophiles
    No connection

63. Hey, about that Chris Hanson thing. It’s bad that he cheated on his wife, yeah, super bad…but he was 51 when he cheated according to the article linked, so a woman 21 years his junior would be 30 years old.

    I would say, while he looses points for the cheating thing, is a 51 year old dating a 30 year old that bad? I mean, yeah I would cry foul if it was a 41 year old and a 20 year old, if only because a 20 year old woman could be taken advantage of by a older person with more life experience…but it doesn’t seem that bad to me with a 51 and 30 year olds. Even if the genders were reversed, I would expect a 30 year old to have ample life experience to take care of themselves. And the woman he was cheating with was a journalist and peer. So on the face, it doesn’t look like he could take advantage too bad, but I don’t know the situation.

    This is just my two cents and a question.

64. The term “Irresponsible Gun Owner” puts focus on the tool and not the person. And as pointed out earlier, most of the people that do something stupid in the IGO category are at fault because of their poor value system or bad judgement — it has little to do with any gun persay, unless the gun has a technical problem or malfunction that was the actual cause of an accident.

    It’s the same thing as when the media and MDA love to label murderers and violent crazy people “mass shooters” or “active shooters” rather than labeling the person accurately (aka, criminal, crazy person, murderer, etc.). This labeling is a blatant attempt to lay the blame on the tool, not the person.

    Most IGOs have nothing to do with owning a gun persay because the gun doesn’t have a mind of it’s own. Maybe if this category was more along the lines of CCW mistakes or bloopers and was more educational, well that could be more accurate to the title.

    But, case in point, this story is about a pedophile, the gun ownership isn’t related, it’s just circumstantial.

    • I mean, yes, this guy was technically a gun owner prior to his conviction as a sex offender and now that he is a felon I’m thinking his gun rights are now moot.

      My point is, illustrating bad gun habits or practices sound like irresponsible gun ownership news. For example, poor choice in gun safes, not taking care of your firearms or storing them correctly, etc. IGOs seem like they should be normal everyday cautionary tales and tips from all gun owners to other gun owners (to ensure they are not repeated). Things like useful pointers and lessons to be learned.

      But I doubt the majority of gun owners will suddenly decide that pedophilia is a good life choice and regardless of this guy’s reasons, it doesn’t directly relate to gun ownership.

65. I feel it’s acceptable to post this story. He was attempting to commit or had committed a crime while lawfully carrying a firearm. He might not have used the gun per say, at least to our knowledge, but he was carrying a gun and committing crimes. If he robbed a bank without ever pulling out his gun what would you say? I also think reporting this kind of nods at the fact that not 100% of “law-abiding gun owners” are perfect angels like some people here like to preach. It’s sorta like a checks and balances type of thing. Honest journalism needs that. Unless you want to start another site called TheTruthAboutGunOwners.

66. There is nothing to hide about stories such as these. If he couldnt get a permit for a concealed firearm he could have just taken a gun anyways regardless of the permit. The permit is just a piece of paper or in this case a plastic card. If he is willing to rape a girl and bury her in a field somewhere, why would a piece of paper or plastic card stop him from carrying a gun?

    More the reason why the piece of paper and plastic card are totally useless.

67. Agreed, but isn’t the phrase “past history is NO indication of future performance”?

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