Perry Danos sent me this song as a wv file. I asked him to upload it to YouTube for your dining and dancing pleasure. Also to make the point that new media has opened-up new avenues for the pro-2A crowd. Could you imagine Colion Noir’s rants on a “regular” TV channel or this website—which recently passed 100m page views—as a mainstream magazine? The question is, now that we have access to newbies is the pro-gun message getting through? Are we winning the info war?
In my small circle of young people, yes. But I don’t know if it counts in Idaho.
I’m passing this along NOT because of all the pix of hot young ladies (well, maybe a little bit), but because of all the scary black implements of mass destruction. I believe it provides interesting insight into our culture. TheChive.com is ranked #865 in the world in Web traffic according to Alexa and they obviously find such a photo spread more than acceptable, because their readership find it more than acceptable.
http://thechive.com/2013/12/05/i-love-a-lady-im-a-little-bit-afraid-of-32-photos-2/
Perhaps there is reason for optimism…
I think we are winning more hearts and minds every day. More and more people that I see are starting to realize that guns aren’t inherently evil.
My folks LOVE Christmas and every year still ask for a list. Every year the top of the list is an AR. I will consider the war one when they read it and don’t laugh…
That said, we need an even bigger culture shift to get more people to realize that more laws infringing on our rights are a bad thing, gun related or otherwise. That, I’m afraid, is a war we’re not gaining ground in. Yet.
Actually, I think the big change in the culture war for gunowners started in the 1980s with Florida’s “shall issue” concealed weapons law, pushed through the legislature by Marion Hammer. The media went berserk, with all of the “it will be Dodge City” and “the GunShine State” comments. Those “news” media comments have continued in every state that has passed Shall Issue laws, and every time they have been proven wrong. We are now, after 30 years, at the point where the leftist Propaganda Ministry has nearly given up attacking the Shall Issue laws. I think a lot of that is due to the fact that increasing numbers of women (in 40 states) are taking advantage of concealed weapons training, and learning how to protect themselves WITHOUT waiting for the authorities to show up. Over the last five years, it seems to me that many CCW instructors say that half or more of their students are women of all ages.
As an OFWG who saw the 1968 Gun Control Act passed with hosannas of praise from the entire media(newspapers and 3 TV networks), I personally see this as a HUGE change in the culture – a substantial percentage of the population seeing concealable handguns as good things (remember the EEEVIL “Saturday Night Specials”?). And by extension, they see guns in general as something they own and aren’t willing to give up. My favorite personal example is the 80-yr old Democrat, Obama-voting woman in our coffee group who just bought an S&W hammerless .38 and got her CWL here in Idaho – for protection when she goes camping.
I think we are also seeing this in the transformation of “assault weapons” into “hey, I own one of those and I’m not assaulting anyone.”
if this site had upvotes, i’d upvote you there.
Tired of this angry rhetoric that “there’s no converting anyone” and “there’s no use in trying to convince “the other side” (Where the other side = liberals).
BS. I don’t want to flog my personal experience again, so i’ll just point to IdahoPete’s above. A lot of people align themselves (D) because of civil rights issues, and 2A is one. and eyebrows get raised when the “powers that be” count to 10 as 1,3,4,5,6….
Marion is still fighting for gun rights in Florida, she was one of the voices alerting us about Leon County considering new regulation.
I cover gun shows for my favorite gun dealer and have seen a massive uptick is first time gun buyers from all walks of life, so yes I believe we are winning.
Beware confirmation bias. Gun people often run with gun people. Antis run with antis. They likely feel they’re winning, too. Feinstein’s staffers aren’t watching Noir’s rants; if they are, it’s to analyze them to dissect them. I don’t know what the metric would be.
With what’s happened here in Colorado, I’d say that the antis made some advances and then the gunfolk made some advances back. Yet the laws still stand. If, this next election, I see a (D) campaigning on repeal of 1224, for example, then i’ll go “hmm, maybe”.
If there’s another mass shooting (I really hope not) and they focus on the guy, his history and his problems and not immediately (and almost solely) on the implement, then I’ll go “hmm, maybe.”
Antis would like to say that “Newtown” brought out a bunch of on-the-fence moderates (from both parties) into the gun fold. I’d like to say, no, thanks, it was the REACTION to Newtown, that being “BAN! BAN! BAN!” which is what brought people off the fence and into the “Well I don’t like that B word one bit” side.
But the “crisis” caused both sides to gain, so I think that’s a draw.
My thoughts exactly. Some skepticism is healthy. Are we winning hearts and minds? In part the growing number of first-time gun buyers would seem to indicate so.
But are those hearts and minds that we’re winning in public office? Therein lies the real question, I think.
It sure seems like it some days. More and more the “common sense” gun grabbers are coming off as out of touch geriatrics and whining ninnies. I remember during the 80’s and 90’s they were taken very seriously by media outlets. Now they just take softball interviews on cable networks nobody watches and bitch about made-up outrages on Twitter.
However, I cringe to think of what the generation now in elementary school having “lockdown” drills will be thinking once they reach voting age. Years and years of “OMG scary gun!!! Duck and cover!!!” can’t be good.
The over-use of the word “Common-sense” isn’t being lost on everyone, not even those supposedly in their camp. It’s approaching the status of a meme, and people on both sides pretty much stop reading as soon as they see that term.
It might as well be a “*This talking point has been brought to you by MDA and MAIG” subtext.
But I suppose I shouldn’t give them any ideas.
nope, not yet. When I see at least one of (NY, CT, MA, MD, NJ, CA) begin to fall, and public opinion turn decidedly against gun control, I might entertain the notion of a victory lap.
I agree. I think the pendulum is swinging in terms of public opinion about the right to legal self-defense among the dont know’s/undecided’s, in particular the independent voters, but thats not a definition of “winning” until we see at least one or preferably two states above change their laws.
That will tend to happen slowly with changes from the top down, ie Supreme Court or Circuit Court decisions that force change upon the liberal urban politicians (Madigan, in re: IL, for example),
or a large swing in popular opinion and legislation from that- and we aren’t there yet, maybe never will be. I think it will take patient grass-roots up political action to change seats one-by-one, in the House and Senate.
But keep putting out the facts, here, for education is how it starts, especially for the Millenials who are going to be very disenchanted with the left once they see how badly they are screwed on Obamacare, and lack of jobs continues to keep them living at home to pay off their student loans.
Guns have turned into a rural versus urban thing generally. The urban pop is growing while the rural pop is shrinking. I think we are going to lose the long war unless we figure out a way expand our tent into the urban pop.
+1
TT,
The fight is for the suburban area. Rural will most alway be pro-gun. Large cities with swing anti… its the middle that has to be won. After any tragedy, the natural human reaction for most will be to recoil against gun rights… hence the immediate polling results after that. But after people stop and think how it may affect THEIR rights, then you see it in the context as it currently stands. Personally, I think this nation is probably 51-49 or 52-48 pro 2-A… and growing for our line of thinking. Having people like the current crop of NRA commentators is an important step. Now they need to reach a larger audience. Instead of sending Wayne LaP to every Sunday show when the NRA gets a request, send Colin, Billy Johnson, Dom Raso or Natalie Foster instead. Reasoned, diverse voices that don’t have the vilified history that Wayne carries.
I think the suburbs are where you will find the newest curiosity of this decade: the armed Liberal/Progressive. Their battle cry is “Take their gun!”
Yes! I’ve lived with this first hand when I was affiliated with a university.
Take the city guns because they’re poor, black, druggies and uppity. Take the rural guns because they’re poor, white, druggies and uppity.
But dont dare touch my two masters degrees ivy league faculty $750,000 second home guns. I need those because I’m surrounded by poor uppity druggies.
I live in a very urban area. I work with people in urban area’s. I work in the tech industry many of them are fairly liberal Democrats. Most are gun owners. The facts are many of these Gun grabbing Democrats are still in office simple because the people have decided that guns are less important then other issues.
Thanks
Robert
I think so. Given that the feds aren’t bringing anything to the table.
Then again, I’m an eternal optimist. Can’t help it.
There is no question that the grabbers have momentum in California, New York City (NOT the rest of the state), New Jersey, Connecticut, and Maryland … and to a lesser extent Massachusetts and Rhode Island. While the pols went full retard in Colorado, the recent recalls demonstrated that the citizens of Colorado are firmly pro-Second Amendment.
Beyond that, I believe the culture war is turning in favor of liberty and gun rights. Lots of people are finally embracing their right to have firearms for self defense. Just look at the co-host of The View Sherri Shepherd who was firmly opposed to civilian firearms ownership until a home invasion scare shocked her to our side. Keep in mind she publicly stated her intention to become a new firearm owner. She could have quietly acquired something without telling anyone.
I believe the Internet is what has enabled this shift. We are no longer constrained to the propaganda coming out of the mainstream media. More than once I have learned about important facts from the Internet that I would never have known otherwise … and more than once I have referred others to those facts who were in a state of denial until they also verified the facts USING THE INTERNET. Plus, we are able to organize in ways to impose political pressure that were impossible before the Internet.
I believe we will win the long game.
“There is no question that the grabbers have momentum in California, New York City (NOT the rest of the state), New Jersey, Connecticut, and Maryland…”
A point of clarification – the entire state of Maryland is NOT gun-grabber territory, only Baltimore and the DC suburbs. The rest of the state opposes these idiots to the point of some serious secession talk earlier this year.
My Professor Emeritus brother-in-law, with PC, Dem-Lib views typical of Academia, told me he was going to buy a gun for home protection, and asked my advice. I was shocked, but pleased.
I often wonder how many of those 100m hits are antis trolling for quotes. Something to think about.
And another question to ponder: If there is a large number of anti hits, does it indicate we’re winning or losing?
Or does it even matter?
Gun ownership is up. Gun control support is down (even including the Newtown local maximum). So, yeah, we’re winning.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
-Gandhi
Way back when, they ignored us, then they mocked us as crazy rednecks, now they’re shifting to the fight stage. Next stop: win!
Well, that didn’t work out quite like that for William Tyndale. First they ignored him, then they mocked him, the they fought him, and then the strangled him and burned him at the stake.
I guess he did win in a way. Everybody dies eventually, anyway, but Bibles did became the most published book in the English language. The only place where they’re stll banned is in American shcools.
No. Here in CA, we are losing. Not only is it repulsive to go to a place like SF and observe the limp-wristed biomass that passes for youth these days, but their mainstream views of gun rights are very simple: ban them all. Why does it need to be so complex?
The constitution to them is an anachronism. Social justice dominates all other concerns. When they voted for hope and change, they really meant it, and they still mean it. Perhaps more so. Their disappointment with the current political system is that it isn’t nearly progressive enough, not that it overreached its authorities.
When you tell them that no, we can’t just ban guns because we have individual rights protected by our central social contract, they just roll their eyes. They’ve never had to protect their individual rights, and thus they mean nothing for them– they only know the narrative of victimhood as expressed by groups.
Celebrate all you want the small victories, but this is the ascendant generation that infests the largest population centers in the nation.
I hear your frustration Matt, but I hope you are wrong. There’s a lot of young people who grew up outside of liberal cities or suburbs of the Bay Area, including CA. We just see more of that viewpoint because Sacramento is dominated by politicians from LA, SF, Oakland, etc-
and so is the CA and National Media, which is clearly in the bag for Obama, and following the Talking Point Memos, desperately I might add, in opposition to what the majority of citizens want, per national polls.
So looking only at urban, particularly coastal elites, and the young kids that live there, who haven’t matured out of “being part of the cool kids club” mode that rule until reality hits- (family, serious job, mortgage, etc) and they start to think about what things really cost, who pays, etc., can be a bit biased, and depressing if you are surrounded by it all the time.
At this Moment in time yes. But the statist machine is at full stride. All one has to do is look at the Institutes of Learning. As go they go our culture. Look how much stronger now that the gun is demonized on campus from your local elementary school to your state university. Look at the anti references getting stronger in Pop Culture. We won this current generation with big help from new technology. The video game industry specifically. However the statist plays for keeps. Your grandchildren are going to look at guns like your children view cigarettes today. Unless we find a way to stop them.
We have to take our family to the range. That’s how I was introduced to firearms and it still works well today. As a parent we have the choice of how to deal with social taboos. I choose to teach my children not leave it up to the State. I even had my anti Mom so curious after talking to my kids that she squeezed off a few with a snap cap. Now that’s progess!
Interesting analogy. Teen smoking (including “vaping”) is on the increase, and is viewed as “cool” again.
No all of America is loosing the culture war
> Are we winning the info war?
No, not yet, not even close. While Social Media plays a role to undercut the MSM, we are still way behind. I will believe it when I see MSM reporting more about how a gun saved someone’s life.
We’re fighting an uphill battle because the Left controls so many media outlets, schools and Universities and they keep on pumping out their poisonous bilge 24/7/365.
What we have going us for first and foremost is the Internet. Nobody controls it, which must make the gungrabbers squirm.
This. Remember that the innertubes are only the medium that allows a much broader access to content.
Never underestimate the left and its love affair with being in charge, since they know so much better whats best for you- and why we have to be on guard, and protect our rights-
When people like Feinstein reflexibly think that the definition of journalist, and the 1A protections that go with free press, should be defined, according to her, as someone who works for a MSM, rather than a citizen journalist blogger- you need to be aware.
And remember, there are people working behind the scenes to change the laws, including the First Amendment- to consolidate their power:
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ernest-istook-knowing-inside/2013/dec/4/obama-asks-supreme-court-new-standard-would-limit-/
The Progressives/Left did not spend a generation worming their way into academia, the MSM, and politics to simply give up their “agenda”. Remember, this hard core is part of the “ME generation”, that significant slice of the Boomers who never got it how wrong they were, who embrace their ideals as a religious belief, and think nothing of winning at all costs- “the ends justifies the means” contempt for the Constitution is just the largest example of it.
That’s a really hard question to answer, in part because the issue is multifaceted. For example, it’s not enough to measure people opinions on the subject, as through polling, because polls can be deceptive. Pleasant sounding proposals may well register support when expressed in vague terms. Add in a little detail as to how a given proposal would be implemented, or what some of the consequences might be, and support levels can swing.
Likewise, someone may genuinely hold a given view, but may lack the intensity either to support the cause proactively, or at least to factor it into their voting decisions. There’s a totality of length, width and depth to people’s support that can be impossible to observe directly. We may just have to resort to an informal index of events as something of a lagging indicator of the culture’s ebb and flow.
The march of shall issue licence laws cross the country is solidly positive, as is the growing number of licensees. Bans on certain firearms and equipment, however, is disturbing and lamentable. In day to day culture, there’s the marketing of products to women and older shooters, as well as the lighter side of the shooting sports (read: zombie mania), which frame firearms in a fun, fresh manner. Then there’s the endless newspeak in the media where every cap gun is a post-apocalyptic death machine, every rape of our rights is a common sense gun safety initiative, and every DGU is a reckless endangerment by a selfish gun owner who finally got his longed-for chance to shoot someone. So I don’t know.
Ultimately, though, the anti’s claims of paranoia and hatred notwithstanding, firearms ownership is fundamentally a lifestyle of hope. Yes, it’s realistic about the dangers we face today. However, it’s also optimistic in its responsible approach to addressing and surmounting those dangers with an eye toward a wide open, positive future. So I’m going to come down on the side of yes, we are winning the culture, because what else am I going to say?
I don’t believe we are winning. I don’t believe the antis are winning either.
It’s very much a tit for tat type situation. They push some nasty laws in one state (NY Safe Act, CO and CT bans), we toss out a politician (CO recalls) or get a case overturned in the courts (Illinois, DC v. Heller).
If we define a gun owner victory as relaxing the laws, we are losing badly. We at best hold out with the laws we have rather than take back lost ground.
If we define a gun owner victory as getting more new gun owners, we may well be silently winning. But I don’t have a way to confirm it or disprove it.
Things could have been worse right now, so perhaps we are not losing, or at least not too badly.
Looking ahead, many rural counties are, simply put, dying, but we will only see the full political impact of that after the 2020 census.
Nope. While we may be gaining ground with the public over
2A issues we’re loosing in too many other areas. Think of
how many are all to willing to sell our (and their own) freedom
for 30 pieces of silver. Add to this, the number too apathetic
and uniformed to care. As much as I like our 2A rights
they can only truly stand strong when the others are there.
Sometimes, I can’t help but feel that by propping up the 2A
so well; the only thing we’ve done is ensure the possibility
that our children’s and grandchildren’s final moments of
independence may go out with a bang instead of a whimper.
Shows like The Walking Dead help our cause a lot.
We nigh get a little here and there, but by and large I don’t think we’re winning. The Powers That Be are still firmly in the “do whatever you can get away with to get rid of those things” camp, and their supporters aren’t going anywhere any time soon.
Winning? No.
We’ve massively improved our situation all the way up to sometimes not losing by default.
Are we winning? Yes and no. We have a good firewall on gun rights, but our populace is becoming more statist, socialistic, and …..gulp….stupid.
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