My everyday carry gun is a Glock 30SF. On the side it says “Made in Austria.” Underneath that: “Glock Inc., Smyrna, GA.” That’s just plain misleading. Glock is an Austrian company. The vast majority of its profits go into the Eurozone (although Glock: The Rise of America’s Gun reveals that a whole bunch get laundered elsewhere). Do I care? I do not. I buy the best gun for my needs and that’s that. That said, more than a few of TTAG’s Armed Intelligentsia adhere strictly to the “buy American” ethos. Which they can do; there are still plenty of U.S. firearms manufacturers who use all-American parts (e.g. Cabot Guns as above). What about you? Do you care whether or not your gun was built in The Land of the Free from parts fabricated here? Is it a deal breaker if it isn’t?
I don’t like buying from communist or oppressive countries. This is hard to do for almost everything except guns.
I don’t like buying from Belgians, but other than that I am pretty open. ceteris paribus I will buy American
I have resolved to only buy new guns that have been made in the US by US companies.
Anything from Europe, her former White colonies, and Japan.
O.N., would you describe yourself as a white supremacist, or separatist? Please be honest.
I love liberty and hate equality. Now kindly go and try to pigeonhole someone else 😉
Fair enough, I’ll take that as a maybe/probably/maybe not. It was the capital “W” that made me wonder.
Caeteris paribus I buy products without considering country of origin.
I honestly don’t see the reason for presuming that things made closer to me are inherently superior.
Nor do I concern myself with American jobs. I think the notion that a job has a nationality is weird. If another countries workers can produce something more efficiently, or of better quality, or for less money, and still import it at a profit, then it’s really a failure of American manufacturers to compete.
Why should I feel compelled to reward failure, just because we happen to live in the same general vicinity?
We should be thanking that hard working manufacturer in Whoseawhatsitstan, he has given us a product we need for less money thus freeing up our dollars for other things. As his economic tide rises, he is rewarded with a better quality of life. This is actually great for America, because countries with deep rooted economic ties rarely shoot at each other.
“When goods don’t cross borders, armies will.” -Frederic Bastiat
valid point 🙂
+10
Couldn’t have said it better.
What if the two products are quantitatively and qualitatively equivalent and the price is within $10 but the foreign product is the one that is $10 cheaper?
Unless there was some extrinsic reason for me to buy the more expensive product, say a brand I happen to prefer, why wouldn’t I buy the less expensive of the two?
So guns (or whatever) made by slave children are okay with you. Cool.
Seriously, labor practices in a lot of countries are horrible. Any worker who complains too much is summarily executed. China is getting better, because they have to – the growing middle class isn’t going to put up with that crap anymore. Which of course makes your Libertarian point – buy the cheapest. Those workers will eventually rise up and succeed in getting better wages, then you’ll buy crap from another, more authoritarian country. A free market isn’t free if workers have a gun to their collective head. A free market implies that every participant (not just the U.S. consumer) has a real choice. If you take away free will, it’s no longer a free market. I’m sure I own plenty of crap made by less-than-free workers, but we need to see the reality here.
While you might find the labor practices “horrible”, they’re better than the alternative of starving in the streets. Just like how in the US, working in a call center is considered a pretty crappy job, in India it’s considered a great job.
There was a great example of people like you harming the poor in third world countries due to being unable to look beyond your narrow point of view. Starkist tuna had a plant in Samoa where they paid about three times the average wage in the country. However, certain people like you who were unable to look at the economic situation demanded that they be forced to pay their workers significantly more – so the plant was shut down. Tell me, were those workers better off making three times more than they would at another job in their country or were they better off unemployed and starving?
Those jobs are not “slave labor”. Yes, working conditions aren’t nearly as good as they are here, but they still choose those jobs over the alternatives.
“So guns (or whatever) made by slave children are okay with you. Cool.”
No, of course not.
My moral opposition to slavery is a relevant factor when considering what I buy. That would be an extrinsic reason to choose a different product.
I suspect you and I might define slavery differently.
But you don’t actually care about this as you wont even show me the courtesy of phrasing your fallacious assumption as an honest question.
Perhaps this is why you have difficulty understanding the free market position?
FYI: I am as far beyond Libertarians as they are beyond you.
You’re right, I should have put a question mark after “So guns (or whatever) made by slave children are okay with you.” My bad.
My point is that an economic system with a high level of coercion is not a free system, whether communist, capitalist, or in between. The U.S. has been a perennial sponsor of all sorts of coercion in the name of “freedom,” often on the behalf of large corporations (Untied Fruit Company, anyone?), and on the behalf of a certain economic ideology, as occurred with Pinochet in Chile, among other places. I recommend “War is a Racket” by Smedley Butler, and Naomi Klein’s “The Shock Doctrine.”
You’re right that we may disagree about what constitutes slave labor, but I would say a strong element of coercion and a lack of alternatives for workers might not be compatible with a free market.
Peace and Respect…
I would also include America in those countries which use coercive labor practices.
Look at what recently happened to Boeing.
But there is an important distinction between a labor union using the law to abuse a company and a company using forced labor.
I agree that coercion is bad, and that using coercion is immoral. In fact this is the distinction which make me differ from Libertarians.
They want the smallest amount of coercion possible, I want none.
Normally, I buy whetever product fits me best or is most likely to perform the job best for me. However, for some reason, when it comes to guns, I always have a bias towards American products. I suppose the main reason is to support our own economy. But then, I’m sure I have more crap in my house that was made from china than anywhere else. I have a couple of foreign made guns that I bought new because they fit the job best. However, if I were to find two equally effective products, I would choose the U.S. made gun.
The really ironic part here is I’m not all that much of a patriot. I highly respect the Constitution, but I’m not proud of the way my country has disgraced it.
American companies that produce firearms basically habitually shoot themselves in the foot. On one hand you have Colt, who can’t sell a gun for less than $1000 unless its a special occasion. Then you have Lorcin, made in California, and Hi-Point firearms made in Ohio. Both of those companies manufacture things that Americans stuck in a recession can buy and generally (as a part of this crowd on this forum) do not. Buying affordable American is an oxymoron in this case for perfect form and function for the price unless it is no object. Yes I excluded Smith and Wesson and Ruger and that’s because everyone isn’t a fan of them. I own one of each only because they have the revolver game cornered between the two of them.
Most US companies do something to get around having every production stamp in this country. I love Springfield Armory. I do. I’ve owned two XDm pistols. Both have “Made in Croatia” stamped on the frame. My Series 70 1911 has Brazil stamped on the frame. Made in ’74 and older than me but not made here. I love the .45 cartridge and both of mine are Springfields regardless of origin for the reason that I love the guns. My gun store owner loves to say “People have been shooting at each other with Colts and Springfields for years!” to emphasise the American tradition but economic times are desperate. Would I buy a SA Custom Shop pistol fitted here in the States? Perhaps in a time when I’m more able to afford it, it would likely be worth it. Will I buy another XDm if the need arises? Absolutely, they are great firearms.
American or not, go with what works with your personal defense. Be it a G23, 642, or CZ 75 the economy doesn’t decide how you are comfortable defending your life.
Ideally, I’d prefer to buy American however that is not an absolute criteria. I purchase firearms that provide the best value regardless of their point of origin. I believe in rewarding good behavior (good manufacturing that exchanges good value to me for my money) and not to reward gun makers that do not produce what I’m seeking. If manufacturers (and governments) are smart and realistic they will adapt and serve their potential customer base to bring in more business and revenue, and not drive buyers away. Still, I prefer not to give my money to countries or companies whose morals and politics I am against.
I weigh “made in the U.S.A.” as a factor in my purchases, firearm and otherwise. I purchased a S&W M&P 9c over a Glock because it’s made in the U.S.A. (and considering the patent infringement settlement S&W paid Glock, it IS a Glock), and carries a lifetime guaranty.
The patent suit between Glock and S&W was over the sigma pistol, which had a much different action than the m&p does.
I strongly weigh US production in favor of purchasing the product. My next buy, however, will be an XDM compact because no American manufacturer makes a defensive carry pistol with a grip safety that has the reputation of an XDM.
1911s. Lots of them.
Most “compact” 1911s are much more expensive than an XDm.
So don’t get a compact 1911. They are stupid. Griplength is all that matters for concealment, not the barrel.
As for the origional post, I’m not an anti grip safety guy but there is almost no situation where a grip safety would become useful. Most all NDs happen with your hand on the gun. The only exception is when a pistol is dropped and in that case the striker or firin pin block safety will do more good than a grip safety.
NDs also happen when holstering; if one is careful to avoid activating it when holstering, it decreases the likelihood of an ND.
True. But I holster my gun with my hand, therefore the grip safety is disengaged. Instead of purposefully holding your gun
In a wired way when holster just to make a safety work, why not just look at the holster and verifythat there is no interference?
The last two pistols I’ve purchased have been from Ruger, and for just that reason.
I never understood the line “so what if it’s made in the USA, the profits go back to the home country.”
And I say, “if that’s the case, so what? If it means Americans are being paid to make it, so much the better.”
And if it’s a used firearm, who cares at all where it was made?
The real question is whether it is even possible for a gun owner on a reasonable, sub $1000 budget to buy a truly American made firearm.
Ruger SR9s ship with 17 round magazines made in Italy.
Maverick Shotguns use Mexican made parts, despite being assembled in the USA.
I make that point because one reason the SR1911 was unique is because all of its component parts,down to the springs and screws, are made in America. There are not many handguns sold that can say that at any price level.
Kel Tec. Most of their models run far, far less than a grand.
I buy what is best for me. That, by definition, is best for the market. I believe what is best for the market is best for America. Competition is a good thing.
I shop for price and quality, and not by country of origin. American-made guns usually stack up favorably in these categories, although it’s sad that we don’t have a US-designed and manufactured 9mm, .40 or .45 that’s in the same class as a Glock, Springfield or HK.
(I’m sure I’ll be challenged on this by someone who loves their M&P or Ruger, but they don’t sell well globally and they certainly aren’t copied and imitated by other manufacturers, and they’re just not in the same class.)
I don’t want to wipe out American craftsmen by forcing them to compete with Chinese slave labor, and I’m not so sure about the Armscor’s Philippine workers either. But if our factories can’t compete against German and Austrian factories with the best-paid workers in the world, then our factories need to adapt and modernize.
I like buying American when I can, but I don’t think that a “USA-only” buying policy is wise: it only protects substandard American products from the consequences of their outdated designs, ancient production methods, or poor quality control. Some American companies have always understood this (Ruger, the old Bushmaster, the old Marlin) and many have not.
Don’t sell well? The M&P is the second most popular gun in IDPA and USPSA behind the Glock and is also the second most used firearm by law enforcement.
I’m not an M&P fanboy but I hate when people say shit that ain’t true.
I’m not beginning to suggest that M&Ps are substandard guns in any way. They sell well enough (at least here in the US) and they’ve found a niche as competition guns.
Police departments have adopted them because S&W literally gives them to police for free if they trade in their old Glocks.
http://kezi.com/news/local/205108
Does S&W melt the old Glocks down? I don’t know, but the fact that S&W has to give away their M&Ps does raise legitimate questions about how well they would fare in the open market. How many of us would drive Subarus if Chevy Cavaliers were free?
Are M&Ps Good guns? Yes, they certainly seem to be. But are they industry-leading guns which have changed the way guns are designed and built? Certainly not.
Are you Under the impression that thats not standard procedure? That’s what every gun company’s Leo branch does! Glock did the same thing when they were starting out. They offered glocks at low to nonexistent prices for precincts who wanted out if there revolvers and S&W autos.
And flock never “changed the way guns are designed and built” they didn’t invent the polymer framed handgun or polygonal rifling. They stole those from HundK.
You are acting like the m&p should have stormed the market if it was any good… You do realize glock has been around for going on 30 years? Of course they have the edge on m&ps, they’ve only been around for less than a decade.
You say “I’m not beginning to suggest that m&p’s are substandard in any way”. but right there in your first paragraph you said “they’re just not in the same class”. So, what your saying is, m&ps are not substandard to glocks, meaning they are equal, but m&ps still aren’t in the same class. Sounds like fanboyism to me.
I don’t own a Glock and I never have. The Glock, despite the fact that I don’t like shooting it, has proven to be a revolutionary design of incredible durability and utility, that has sold for decades, in the tens of millions, and has been the starting point of an entire generation of pistols.
The M&P is none of these things, although it actually shoots better for me than the Glock.
“But if our factories can’t compete against German and Austrian factories with the best-paid workers in the world, then our factories need to adapt and modernize.”
Ok let’s look at Germany and Austria, HK and Glock. H und K makes guns the same quality as Glock, S&W, And FN, and yet charges much higher prices for them, all the while having terrible customer service and parts availability. Glock makes polymer guns with blocky, easy to machine slides. Not that they aren’t great. Polymer is an extremely easy to work and cheap material. Glock has been using the same slide shapes for years, their tooling is waaaaaaaay more than payed for, while other companies have to come out with something new every few years or people get pissy. I remember reading a Glock interview where they said the profit margin on Glock pistols was something like 60%. And that was back in the day.
I love Glock, but they are what they are, a simple, cheap, reliable gun. I grew up in the 90s so of course I like HK guns, but they are what they are, over priced, over hyped, and under available. However, they still work great.
Saying Other manufacturers can’t keep up with the Germanic area is pretty silly seeing as very few large military’s use germanic guns.
So many things we buy are likely made by slave labor, and this is a moral problem. Guns, as a high-skill manufactured good, may not be made by slave labor (certainly not it Austria or the Czech Republic, etc.). I won’t judge anyone for what they buy, but we should think about it. All these free market people saying buy what’s cheapest…it’s not a free market if there’s coercion. The Libertarian Free Market dream does not include slavery.
Slave labor usually produces far inferior products but lets say both products were equivalent.
Slave labor is a factor in the free market in that I would not knowingly buy anything from a country which uses slave labor.
In that instance it would be my moral objection to the labor practices involved, and not the country of origin that is the factor. I suspect most people would agree with me, though they would be free to disagree and buy whatever they like.
I’d like to think the social stigma of buying a firearm produced by slaves would be a strong deterrent.
But how many folks out there buy surplus Soviet era firearms. It could be argued that they were all produced using slave labor.
I wouldn’t buy North Korean, but apart from that I don’t really care. Like another commenter pointed out, I don’t believe in rewarding failure, so if American companies want my money, they need to earn it.
Remember back in the day when America was good at making things? What ever happened?
Oh well. The various Germanic countries have been good at making stuff for many hundreds of years longer than America has even existed. I may just have to stick to buying their products in the new future.
I don’t care where a gun is made – if it’s reliable and a good price, I’ll get it. The whole “only buy Amurrrican!” just screams “ignorant racist”.
When did “amurrica” become a race? People who say only buy American say it because they want the money to stay in our ecomomy, it has nothing to do with racism. Your comment just screams “ignorant dweeb”
Because it’s always white people (typically with low education) saying it. You do realize that we do a lot of trade with other countries, right? We buy from them, they buy from us. Every time that you buy a gun made in Italy, they then have more money to buy movies made in the US or software made by a US company. The whole “money staying in our economy” thing is pure ignorance of economics.
But what would I know about economics, I only have two degrees in it. I’m sure you know MUCH more about it than I do because you purchased something once, so you’re an expert.
Right right, because you can tell, just by looking at a white person, how well they are educated? Sounds like your projecting your own prejudices onto other people, man.
But hey, since you’ve got Two whole Economics degrees(did the first one expire?), perhaps you can tell me how an economy that is all import and no export can sustain itself? Obviously that is taking it to extremes, but it is obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that the more money that stays within a nation’s economy, the wealthier that nation will be. Granted there will always be something you have to import, but the less importation, the better off you will be.
*sigh* My first comment didn’t post, so here’s take two.
I actually TALK to people and get to know them – shocking, huh? When you talk to someone and they say that they only graduated from high school, then it’s kind of a tip off that they didn’t go to college.
As for two degrees? It’s called “grad school” and getting a Master’s degree. It’s fairly obvious from your comments that you’re not highly educated or you would know what a graduate degree is.
Our economy isn’t all import – it’s anything but. We simply import most manufactured goods because Americans with your views priced themselves out of the market by thinking that doing unskilled factory work should be worth $50,000+ per year when in reality it’s maybe worth $30,000 per year – tops. So you sit there, demand absurdly high wages for your given level of skills and the value it would provide a company and the companies chose to go elsewhere instead. It’s not rocket science – it’s basic math.
We export education, services (consulting, architects, engineers, etc), we export movies, software, licenses for building things such as LCD TV’s, computer processors, etc. If we exported nothing, then it would mean that no one in the country produced anything of value and then the country would deserve to collapse for being utterly useless.
Trade is not “something you have to do” – it’s how you improve the living standards for ALL countries involved in trade. Trade provides access to goods and services not available in your own country. It also provides competition for the same things so that you have more options to choose from, lower prices, and higher quality because everyone is trying to be the best and earn your business. This is why when the US didn’t trade much, there were fewer choices and people paid much more as a percentage of their income for the same things. If you’re under 50, ask your parents what it was like when they were younger – people didn’t have much stuff because it was too bloody expensive. Many things, such as cars, were also much lower in quality because you had no choice but to buy from the Big Three, so why should they put effort into making a better product when they can build a car that will fall apart in three years and then you’re forced to buy another one from the same companies. That car companies did the same thing with union wages – they knew you had no alternative but to buy from them, so when the union wanted higher wages they gave it to them and then just jacked the price on all of their cars to make up for it.
Please, learn something about economics. You’re only making yourself look foolish by ranting about something you know nothing about.
TL;DR
Translation: “I have no possible counter argument, so I’m just going to post this childish bit instead of admitting defeat”.
It’s cool man, we all lose from time to time. Even Rocky lost to Drago.
That was really uncalled for, dude. American manufacturing has taken a beating – much of it self-imposed. Still, I don’t think intentionally supporting a workforce of my fellow citizens is morally problematic.
Further, I fail to see how supporting a company that probably employs people from various races is racist.
“Nationalist” or “Jingoist” might have been the word you were looking for.
Exactly, I could understand being called nationalist, what with the subject we were arguing about, but racist? The dude doesn’t even know what race I am! The only time I even mention race is when talking about HIS comments!
I’m done with this guy, I don’t let people calling me names get to me, but being called a racist is the one exception, that is the same a questioning someone’s honor or integrity. and this guy says he “talks to and gets to know people”, HA! He sure as hell didn’t get to know me before starting to yell racist and call me un-educated.
The beat part is, im not even one if these die hard buy American guys, I’m way too cheap to buy everything american! The only stuff I can think of off the top of my head that is near me is a gun, some clothes, and this trashcan says made in USA on it. I only replied because the guy was talking out of his ass, but I guess those are the kinds of skills you gain when working towards your economics masters.
Please, point out (using direct quotes) where I called you racist or uneducated. Yes, in my last post I said that from YOUR comments about not understanding different levels of degrees allows one to assume you don’t have a high education, but that’s your own fault for posting something so horribly ignorant.
I said that the “buy American” mantra screams ‘ignorant racist’ – not that everyone who says it IS racist. Reading comprehension – it’s a wonderful thing.
Oh, regarding the “nationalist vs racist” bit – who do you ever see making Nationalist statements? I never see Asians in the US saying it, nor Hispanics, and outside politicians, I don’t recall ever seeing blacks say it either – so tell me, what group does that leave saying it? Whites. Now remind me, what race are most of the countries that they want us to boycott? I’ll give you a hint – it’s not white.
I don’t believe it’s racism, though it may have some elements of xenophobia.
It’s more a product of nationalism. The same flawed reasoning which causes many people to vehemently insists that the sports team who is, coincidentally, the closest to their particular location is the best, and thus the sports team form the next town over sucks and is automatically considered a rival.
In my State it’s the UW Huskys vs. the WSU Cougars. It’s is positively bizarre to see otherwise rational people become vigorously animated over their teams perceived superiority, especially given how little attention is paid to actual performance.
Nationalism is an outgrowth of tribalism, so there is probably some very clever evolutionary psychologist who can explain it.
I’m sure there are alot of people who jump on the “only buy American” bandwagon because they are nationalist. But I think the majority just understand that us made goods are USUALLY of a higher quality(obviously there are exeptions) than Chinese and Korean goods, and understand that paying money to employ American workers is better for their communities.
I mean, somebody who refuses to buy a quality product simple because it was made somewhere else is obviously an idiot, but i think it’s perfectly reasonable to want to spend money on a quality American product.
For instance, a few years back I bought a belt made in the USA. It lasted for three years before the leather finally gave out at a joint. When I went to buy another one at the exact same store off the exact same rack I noticed that the company had switched there manufacturing to china(the price had actually gone up a few dollars though). I though nothing of it because I assume this particular company would be riding the factory for quality stuff. Unfortunately the belt was obviously lower quality and fell apart within a few weeks. While that is in no way completely representative of ALL chinese manufacturers, it is experiences like that that turn people off to foreign goods.
If you want a good belt, I’ve always found the best bet is to go to small, or even better one man, custom leather shops. Bob usually has more incentive to provide a quality product than BobCo. At least when it comes to relativity simple items which require a high degree of specialized craftsmanship.
Of course you’re probably going to pay a little more.
I got a belt form Jason at Concealment Solutions (not a paid endorsement) and it’s a pretty solid piece of cow. I got a dress belt from Banana Republic and it’s crap.
Nationalism, xenophobia, and racism are all essentially the same thing because it boils down to “anyone who’s different from me is bad”. Once you look at the fact that it’s almost exclusively white’s in the US who are nationalist, the racism part is pretty obvious.
“Once you look at the fact that it’s almost exclusively white’s in the US who are nationalist”
Do you have a statistic to support this assertion or it’s an anecdote based on your experience?
Also please define “white”?
A term that can apply equally to the Spanish and the Irish has very limited utility in my book.
Also are you asserting that humans poses some kind of racial predisposition to certain opinions?
I buy anything except Chinese guns. Not because they are Chinese, but because they are a POS copy. Overall, I buy quality. I don’t care if it is US quality, Czecoslovokian quality, or Yugo quality. I don’t discriminate.
its odd thinking about it i have accidentally bought American for all my hand guns. between the STI Electra S&W model 10 or S&W MP in 9mm or Kimber they were all made in the USA. It was not my intention though, I tend to buy what what works for me and I have to say the one thing that the USA brings to manufacturing is generally Higher skill and expertise in the construction of the gun. i have seen much more beautiful European guns from Europe but not any that are better engineered than in the USA.
I have guns from the US, Germany, Canada, Italy and Crotia. My optics are from the US and Japan. Ammo is all American. I buy to requirements and not country of origin.
Out of curiosity, what canadian gun do you have?
Is it a Ross rifle?
Savage 22s are manufactured in Canada. I have the Mk II and a model 64 autoloader.
I factor country of origin when I buy but it is no way a deal breaker. I love Glocks, M&Ps, FN’s(especially the .45 tactical), and HK’s. More than anything really is cost that factors in, or else i would allready own all of these.
I saw more than one person in here mention FN. We should clear this one up… ALL FN pistols are made in America.
That’s good to know, Just another good reason to buy a .45 tactical(if only it wasn’t 1000$), though i doubt it would have any bearing on a purchase for me since I don’t really care all that much about country of origin when buying guns. It’s a selling point sure but the function and aesthetics of a gun are really what drive my decisions.
I buy what I want — it’s my money. And I dont want to hear any BS about “supporting our economy.” It’s not my job to support our economy. The economy is supposed to support us.
I’m not sure you know how economics works.
Enlighted me. I’m sure you studied economics when you prepped for your GED.
Wow, troll much?
Ok I’ll enlighten you. Buisinesses provide a product/service, consumers pay for it. That is economy. Consumers are the only support an economy has. “the economy is supposed to support us” I’m not sure that word means what you think it means.
Ralph is correct here. What he was saying is that he doesn’t have to lower his standards are accept an inferior product. That comes from a rugged belief in survival of the fittest, and that when inferior companies die we are all better off because of it.
That’s not what he said at all. He said the economy is supposed to support the people. Did you even read the post? Or is JTB just another name for Ralph?
Hey Matt, You are right. I myself him a Sig guy but always try to buy american if it of the best quality. Try and support the economy of your country.
Exactly Jake, I wouldnt buy a piece of crap just because it was made in USA(take the “ring of fire” guns for example), but I doo try and buy American when I remember too because it’s usually higher quality.
Alot of what makes a product last is how much the people making it give a damn. I know we can get great stuff from china, take thus phone I’m using for instance or a flat screen tv, but it seems like a company really has to keep Chinese company’s on a short lease and ride them constantly to keep them from letting quality slip.
I remember reading something written by an inventor where he was talking about how much of a pain it was to get the Chinese factory guys to make his products the way he wanted.
Buy quality stuff, or the badly made junk will crowd the good stuff out of the market.
My Ruger .22’s are American made, but I’m more doubtful about my FN (and Browning) products. I don’t doubt the quality, though.
I’ve got a CIB and a Purple Heart. I don’t have to prove my “patriotism” by buying inferior hardware. That said, I do find that America still produces pretty good firearms (as opposed to, say, cars). If two theoretical items were identical in performance (which none are) I’d go with the American model. I find the “buy American” trope foolish and insulting.
“Hey, it’s not American Industry’s responsibility to produce functional goods, it’s your patriotic duty to buy whatever shit they feel like making”. If my choice is between a Springfield XD and a Glock, I can see going with the XD. If my choice is between a Marlin and a H&K, American can screw off.
So what you’re saying is that you’d perhaps but a Croatian pistol over an Austrian one, and German firearm over an American one that is in a completely different league?
Comparing marlin to HK is pretty silly.
I would prefer buying American, but I am not going to be a fanatic about it.
Freedom Group Arms stuff I might pass on.
Ruger, Savage, and Ithaca are OK.
I usually do not have a problem with the Euro stuff.
Browning is OK.
South American stuff is up and down.
Turkish stuff is up and down.
Chinese stuff no way!
I buy what I believe is a good value for the price. I know for a fact that a Glock 19 isn’t worth $500, but I bought one because of it’s innovative and reliable design. One of the design features is its Tenifer finish, which is extremely durable and well suited for concealed carry. However, cyanide is used during this nitriding process and, consequently, part of the outgoing waste contains some as well. The EPA would have a coronary if Glock ever tried to have a factory in the US with this current manufacturing process involving cyanide.
My other gun is a Mossberg 500. Simple, reliable, easy to maintain were my criteria and the 500 fits the bill. The next gun I’m looking at getting is an SKS or AK… you see the pattern?
Tennifer is the same thing as melonite which is used on the m&p and many other guns. All different names for the same process.
Correction: I got that from a book, I guess the author made that up because he could not think of any real reason why Glocks aren’t made in the US. Though Glock may simply be stubborn. I don’t know why, they would be able to avoid the whole US import labyrinth of red tape by having factories here.
Its possible glock was the only one using the process when it was written, as it’s not widespread.
I think the only flock they can’t import right now is the little .380. I guess they don’t think there is enough market for it to justify a factory.
I primarily buy American because I am an old school American. I am not apathetic about my country, I am not part of the pussified masses, my thinking is not led by politicians or the media and I am never swayed by gun forum experts or advertising. I would rather put $1 in the pocket of a countryman, then a Euro in the pocket of someone on foreign soil. Heck, I would rather put $1,000,000 in the pocket of a rich U.S. investor (who will continue to invest in the U.S.) than one Euro in the pocket of someone on foreign soil. You can invest in the future of your country OR you can invest in the future of a foreign country. Pretty simple.
Well, you hope that rich U.S. investor will invest in the U.S.
True, but at least if you go that direction there is a chance. Go the other way and there is no chance.
Actually, a lot of foreign companies (BMW, Toyota, etc.) invest in the U.S. As real wages decline, I bet more will.
Well, I generally prefer Ruger. The “Buy American” thing is a major plus, but mostly (for me) they’re the best guns for the money (poor college student’s perspective).
On the other hand, I just saw the Springfield XD(M) 45 compact, and my pants got really tight all of a sudden…
Yea, I mainly buy American firearms 99% of the time. S&W, Remington, Ruger, Kimber, but I also bought a Taurus Judge for the pure fun factor.
I don’t exclusively buy American but I will do whatever I can to avoid buying something made in China. Not always possible but it’s surprising how avoidable it is.
I buy Czech, German, Austrian and American firearms and am happy with my choices and even happier that we have such a good selection to choose from in the USA. Quality is quality and sometimes it comes from “over there”. There is no reason to feel bad about buying a CZ or a Glock because there are Americans in the distribution chain that are profiting off the sale “over here”.
I mostly own US made arms Colt, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, but I do own a CZ and a Mosin.
I think we should all try to buy American more often, but sometimes your only choices are foreign, foreign and foreign.
Anyone ever wonder why America makes tends to make the best rifles and shotguns (except rare and super-expensive items like the SCAR and Krieghoff shotguns… I assume Krieghoff is german-owned), but that Europe makes the best handguns (HK SIG GLOCK Beretta)?
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