From onesourcetactical.com:
“One Source Tactical has partnered with Blade-Tech to design and create the WRS RMR Equipped Tactical Holster [after the jump]. This is the first production level 2 retention holster that I am aware of that is designed to accommodate a handgun (Glocks in this case) with a red dot sight (RDS) mounted on the slide . . .
The slide mounted RDS concept seems to be gathering more and more momentum now that there are some optics, like the Trijicon RMR, that really lend themselves well to this application. One Source offers their own package of slides that come complete with an RMR and gunsmiths, like Bowie Tactical Concepts, report that they are milling slides to accept RDS at an increased frequency. The introduction of this holster would seem to lend further credence to the growth and acceptance of this concept.”
Sold?
My initial experience with these types of sights was mostly positive, but the earlier models were a bit lacking with regard to the intensity of the red dot, esp. in bright sun situations. Battery life was also a concern. Having said that, these systems are fast and if you are not a naturally gifted pistol shooter – much more conducive to good accuracy than conventional sights. I think some of the newer models have addressed both of the issues mentioned above, and so now it seems the biggest impediment to increased customer acceptance is simply cost. It would not surprise me if more manufacturers start releasing pistol models with slides pre-milled for these devices, particularly if some industry standardization / natural selection (think beta vs. VCR, etc) starts to occur.
Remember the fanfare that accompanied the first generation of Tasco pistol red dots? And remember how quickly they vanished? I’m not quite ready to take the iron sights off *my* pistols, even though the new Trijicons, ACOGs and Leupolds are light-years ahead of the Tascos of 1997-98.
Blade-Tech holsters, however, are excellent bits of kit. I’ve got an IWB from them that makes a full-size 9mm both concealable (under a jacket) and relatively comfortable.
Not sold. Red dots are great for a lot of applications, but for a self-defense pistol I prefer iron sights.
Nope.
More parts = more things to break or go wrong.
Plus, if you can’t draw on a human size target at 10 yards, you should save that extra money wasted on a Red Dot and spend more time at the range.
“if you can’t draw on a human size target at 10 yards, you should save that extra money wasted on a Red Dot and spend more time at the range.”
Patrick, if you live to be a thousand you will never speak truer words.
Well said Patrick, equipment can not compensate for lack of skill, however, red dots have advantages for practiced shooters.
Thanks – and for the record, I do love red dots. As a recreational shooter, I’ve had a LOT of fun with them, and love the videos of pro’s shooting their race guns. But for SD, I just think KISS is law.
I’m with Patrick. I used to have a red dot on my shotgun. I find the ghost sights are more accurate and there is no worry with those.
Both One-Source and Bowie Tactical offer a set of extra-tall suppressor sights that co-witness the red dot. If the red dot stops working, you still have your irons.
Many current low-cut holsterd will work without modification. Safariland is working on a prototype security holster as well.
I have a M&P with a red dot built by Bowie Tactical with the suppressor sights. Run properly, the red dot increases your ability to aim. The problem is if you don’t have a near perfect sight alignment when you draw, you won’t see the red dot in the screen and there is no indication of where the dot is in relation to the sight. When the dot is off screen, you don’t know if its high, low, right or left. When that happens you have to use your irons to align the gun before you can use the dot, which slows the process.
This became an issue for me as my regular carry gun is an XD. I found when switching to the M&P to test the red dot, my sight alignment was off because of the difference in the guns which led me to have problems finding the dot. With practice, I was able to get a better alignment, thus being able to use the dot properly.
That brings up a question: if I need to shoot in an odd, unpracticed position, will I be able to find the red dot?
Red dots on handguns are the darling in IPSC’s “open” class. However, those shooters are usually at the top of their game with much practice, and they shoot reduced loads that are balanced to their compensators, so a direct comparison with them may not be fair.
My conclusion is the shooter best able to use the gun is one that has near perfect muscle memory so they are able to effortlessly obtain a sight picture. Anything short of that may leave the shooter searching for the dot.
I can see some fun and advantage. I’d have to see about it on a specific handgun, maybe one I intend for more distant shooting. I never say never, but I don’t have glass on any of my long guns either, I really like the openness and unhampered view of iron sights.
Me too, Cujo. For me iron sights work better with my sighting style.
But do they sell a holster that can also accommodate a bayonet? And a light on one side and a laser on the other. I want my pistol to have as much crap hanging off of it as my AR.
Rabbi’s post on target acquisition with a red dot goes double for lasers. I see a lot of people who use laser sights at the range end up chasing the little red dot all over the paper. In an SD situation, I think it would be worse. For me, iron sights allow me to acquire a target more quickly than any laser or red dot.
Same.
My wife has a Glock 34 (milled slide) with an RMR, and suppressor sights for competition. She loves the setup. Now, if I could have convinced her NOT to duracoat the slide a dark purple.
Been there done that. Try before you buy…
Awesome for bullseye work, but not as fast as you would think. As Rabbi said – if you don’t see the dot, there is no good reference other than wiggling around until you do. There is a HUGE difference between a C-more mounted nice and high on a limited gun, and a small-screened Trijicon/Docter mounted low on the slide of a M&P.
Red-dots definitely help with rapid sight-picture acquisition. Especially if you’re drawing in varying light-conditions. Whether that advantage is worth the potential unreliability of adding an electronic sight to a reciprocating slide is an open question.
Personally, I’m more interested in tritium fiber-optic sights. Almost as good in all lighting conditions, and almost as rugged as standard sights.
Not a chance. If your red dot fails and you don’t know how to use iron sights you are SOL.
Okay for my Bushie bit not my PP handguns.
I love the dinosaur logic, “well if your using a red dot you clearly do not know how to use iron sights.”
I guess I’m not part of the superior race of iron sight users.
Like the sarcasm but you didn’t answer the question. Can you run your PP handgun on iron sights?
“Chase says:
June 26, 2011 at 8:25 PM
I love the dinosaur logic, “well if your using a red dot you clearly do not know how to use iron sights.”
I guess I’m not part of the superior race of iron sight users.”
From my experience the most tricked out shooters are usually the most disappointing shooters. You expect great things from a green laser beam and an awesome looking holo but all you get are painted ceilings and garbage groupings. Old school usually does well all around. I speak as someone who used red dots and went back to ghost/iron sights because they are faster and suit me.
I have no problem with someone else using a RD sight on his defense gun.
I personally go with the most reliable hardware in any situation. At close range, I don’t need sights (well, maybe just the front…), at distance, I’m looking for cover or running.
I’ve trained with iron sights long enough that I have no qualms about my times/splits between multiple targets.
I’d worry more about the sight failing and spending a precious second or 2 accepting that fact.
That’s just me. You put on your gun what works for you.
Didn’t we go through all this in the Carbine world a few years ago?
The close minded, old-school crowd came along with the two usual arguments: Lack of reliability and Gear does not make up for training.
Now, I dare you to find anyone of note running rifles without red dots (or Trijicons or S&B Short Dots, or whatever the optic of the day is).
Putting the red dot on the thing you want the bullet to go through will always be easier than lining up a notch and post in a bit of metal bolted to the top of the slide. For people who don’t train a lot, that means their performance will improve and they can focus on other matters of gunfighting. For people who know what they are doing, red dots only accelerate the shooing cycle. Win and Win.
In 20 years, mini red dots will be *the* standard the way night sights are now. They will get smaller, easier to integrate onto the pistol, manufacturers will offer milled slots on the slide for them (like the FN45 Tactical), the cost will go down, reliability will go up and the Lost Dot problem will get solved.
Except that this post asked about red dots on PP handguns not rifles. I agree that that red dots are ok for carbine rifles or AR’s but not handguns.
Red-dot? Sight? All you need is a hair curler.
Rockin.
I agree that in time RD sights will be the norm. They’re too fast and easy to overlook.
However, reliability is still king in my book.
My wife’s rifle has an Aimpoint H1 on it.
OLD post but……… Red dots should NEVER be considered for self defense for the simple reason that one cannot put the weapon into action fast enough for most self defense situations. Simply stated, there is rarely enough time during an unexpected self defense situation to turn the site on. The truth is that under the best self defense situations you MAY be able to get one well placed shot off with conventional sites with LOTS of training before the perp is all over you like white on rice. Hopefully that will be enough so you wont have to fight for your life in a ground battle much like the Florida Zimmerman case (typical scenario) . LOL (Excuse me Mr. deranged crack head felon, would you mind postponing your attack while I turn on my red dot optic?) LOL At best only co-witness installations should be considered for self defense purposes. Save the red dots for the range, plinking and hunting they are a lot of fun when utilized in this manner. Self defense is very serious business and I see lot of fantasy talk here on this subject. Not real world and may I say, recklessly irresponsible topic discussion. IMHO.
Be safe.
Comments are closed.