Well, voluntarily, of course. Tyler forwarded this video on to me, and from one hunter to another, the guy makes a lot of sense. Hunting with lead projectiles might indeed pose a danger to the health of the hunter as well as the health of the environment. And with the ready availability of all-copper bullets from Barnes and other producers, making the switch is easier than ever. So why don’t more hunters do it? And why does hunting ammunition still offer lead projectiles? Given ready availability and a price that’s close, would you switch?

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99 COMMENTS

  1. I think a lot of hunters have switched. But there are just some guns you can’t really use a non lead round, like muzzleloaders and shotgun slugs (for deer I mean). Or at least I haven’t seen any. (Here in Ohio you can’t hunt with a rifle unless it’s coyote/wild hogs/small game with .22s)

    It’s the lead in primers that is bad (from what I understand) not the actual lead bullets. I remember reading something about a study that in tests with raptors being fed lead pellets they just passed them, its the particulate matter that is bad just because it gets absorbed into the bloodstream. But I’m not a doctor and an animal expert so yeah.

    • This whole “doing away with lead” thing is just another example of the tree hugging granola eaters trying to find something that will, one, give them something else with which to continue number two, which is “harsh my shooting high.” The whole “lead in the ecosystem will kill the world by next week” is just another big steaming bowl of pure eco hippie hokum! We hunters and shooters have used good ole’ lead for hundreds of years now, with no problems, (as long as you don’t shoot your stuff in a building and breath in that really tiny particulate lead.)
      These mugs are going to do, and say, whatever they can that will put any sort of kink into what we want to do as hunters, shooters and sportsmen in general. Pay these jerks no mind, and go right ahead using lead the same way you have since you were born, (unless you’re painting baby tongues with it or some such.)

      • B.S. The quest against lead in the environment is very old, and very sensible. Add to this PCBs, cadmium, mercury and other substances moderated do to a “hatred of business -” at least by your lights.

        The phrase “tree-hugging granola eaters” is the mantra of the Disposabe Planet crowd, which is the ultimate murder-suicide cult. Not everyone who shoots is a member of your club.

        While munitions are now in the sights of those who see a future beyond their own lifetime, it no different from paint, lead in fuel, sea coal et cetera.

        Deal.

        • Mercury is good for you, RIGHT? Or else they wouldn’t put it in vaccines and High Fructose Corn Syrup. RIGHT?

        • This is one of the more closed-minded, low-information posts I’ve seen here in a long while. Yes, phrases like “tree-hugging granola eaters” isn’t exactly friendly, but focus on that is a distraction: there is simply no science to show that lead ammunition is dangerous to those eating animals taken by said ammo, nor to the environment, where lead can be found in high percentages almost everywhere. PCBs aren’t natural, and things like mercury and cadmium are pollutants from manufacturing and other activities, and even then are only problematic due to the large amounts released. Lead is naturally occurring, can be found everywhere, and is not soluble, so it can only be absorbed by the body under special circumstances. As I said previously, there are numerous people walking around with bullets in their bodies, yet suffer no ill affects due to lead poisoning. The majority of lead ammunition ends up in bullet traps and berms at shooting ranges where it is collected and reused, and the very marginal amount released into the environment by hunters is nowhere near the scale of other pollutants.

          What seems to be the problem is that some lead shot causes digestive problems in some condors, etc., but again, I’ve seen no science showing that it’s the lead specifically and not simply having a large piece of shot in the digestive tract. Is there any science to show that copper would be any different? What species might have toxic reactions to copper? Most of this controversy hinges on opinion, guided by the mistaken notion that any lead is toxic, which simply isn’t the case. One needs to think of lead a bit like sodium. It’s everywhere, but only a danger under special circumstances. I worry more about people who shoot steel targets, as the impact does aerosolize a tiny amount of lead, which can be breathed if the wind blows back in the direction of the shooter. That said, Jerry Miculek seems okay.

          I personally don’t care what people shoot, but I’m skeptical that lead ammunition is a problem and would like to see more actual science on the topic before lead ammo is demonized. There IS politricks being played here, lest we forget, and this has been a wedge issue in the making by anti-gun forces for a long time. Let’s get the facts first.

        • YA know,,the lead thing is BS,,what it just started poisioning,lol,its been used for hundreds of years,,,,why is there even one living thing left???? it’s all BS,,if it was true,,there would be no animals,,,as far as ca condors,,i live here and those condors are not the original condors to ca,,again BS,,BS untill some one explains how after hundreds of years of lead there is one living thing left,,BS

    • Whatever danger it might pose to animals or the people who eat them would be due to the vaporized lead and nearly microscopic particles that are blasted into the meat. Lead bullets lose a percentage of their mass after impact, and that lost mass doesn’t just disappear — it’s in the flesh and guts of the animal you shot.

      So if there are raptors or whatever that are highly sensitive to lead, it’s there in microsopic particles that could be bioavailable. But I don’t really know…it just sounds plausible. Has anybody done any studies on how lead particle size affects absorption and toxicity?

      HOWEVER… Even in areas where lead shot hasn’t been used for what, 5 years? 10? condors are still going down to lead poisoning and other ailments. It’s time to consider that maybe lead from US hunters isn’t the real problem. And people have been hunting with lead bullets for centuries, and despite the verifiable presence of lead in the meat they’re eating, people are still okay.

      As for me, I’m not a hunter. I’ve just done some reading on the lead vs. copper subject. But if I were to go hunting, I’d load my trusty 30-30 with copper bullets, even if they were more expensive. At the usual range of 200 yards and in, they expand reliably and have significantly better penetration. And even if it probably wouldn’t hurt me or the fam, there wouldn’t be lead in the meat, and the less lead I eat, the better.

      • “Lead bullets lose a percentage of their mass after impact”

        Except for one in Dallas in 1963, that caused 7 wounds on two people, with no visible loss of mass. Who says the magic’s gone?

  2. Hunting with lead projectiles might indeed pose a danger to the health of the hunter as well as the health of the environment.

    Present data supporting that assertion.

      • Thanks for the refs. Upon reading them the following statement caught my attention:”

        Because elevated blood lead has not been confirmed among consumers of venison, and because the measured lead content in venison varies greatly, there is an indeterminate public health hazard among those consumers.

        The study was based on a model created from limited field data. Formulating policy on an anecdotal level of data is why we are in the mess we are in in both protecting our gun rights as well as the fiscal crisis (anyone want a balloon loan?).

        Setting a precedent with hunting ammo is a back door way of gun grabbing IMO. After all, if the amount of lead in a deer is dangerous, then how about all of the lead aerosoled when shooting silhouette targets or steel gongs?

        And for the record, all academic legit papers list references without leaving the reader unable to verify its authenticity.

    • +1000

      I live in CA, but haven’t hunted here yet. I save that outdoor pursuit for WI. The lead ban is simply another tool in the gun grabber shed. For waterfowl, I can see the benefits of steel and Bismuth. Those are readily available. However, in BanHappyLand (AKA California), the restriction to use lead free is a “clever” ploy to force shooters into ammunition that is $2/round or more. No thanks.

      I’ve hunted deer with lead ammo since 1992, my father since the 60’s, and my grandfather in the 30’s.

      With that being said, my preferred choice in 6.8 SPC would be Wilson Combat Barnes TSX 110 grain at 2700 FPS. I just can’t buy it because its always

      • As someone from WI I have no issue switching to hunt with copper over lead because frankly a box of 25 will last me several years. Hunting for food and not for sport is how it should be done and frankly if you don’t like paying $2.00 a round when hunting season comes around you are more than welcome to run out to the store and buy hamburger for $2.89 a pound.

        • I guess you missed the part about expanding the lead ban as part of gun control. Sure, doubling the cost of ammo, if you buy a box of ammo every 5 years, doesn’t amount to squat.

          What does affect hunters, shooters, and gun advocates is the expansion of bans. Lead ammo, 30 round mags, gun free zones, etc. Those who hate firearms love bans. If I could go online and buy high quality ammo that I actually wanted – maybe. Seeing is that is not a reality, than screw additional lead bans.

          Also, copper is also a heavy metal toxin, so any hunter who claims moral superiority by using it won’t impress me.

          • I’ll also add: what about the costs of practice? If you only hunt once a year or less, how do you ramp-up to opening day? Even an Olympic runner does stretches! I wouldn’t want to be out more money than I could’ve bought the meat for before I even get the critter in my scope!

        • Where can you find burger for $2.89/lb.? It’s significantly higher than that at my -20 and I’m in the middle of a state that produces a huge percentage of US beef. Between the drought-induced destocking and the communist ethanol industry hovering up all the corn, it’s not going to get better soon.

        • Note how it reads “no issue switching TO HUNT” for hunting purposes I have no problem with it, in a full on swing to lead free (meaning all including plinking ammo) I have an issue. If they could pull a full switch to copper on all ammo and do so with a less than .10 a round increase I’d happily switch. But to tell me I just need to hunt with copper? Yeah fine I’ve got no issue with that, if the price is too great I’ll reload over buying my normal box from Sako and DDuplex for hunting.

          Burger is 2.89 a lb out here, granted I get it from my local butcher so that might make a difference. At my local grocer it is about $3.25 a lb and at the wally world around $4 a lb, but if you’re buying meat from walmart you’re asking for bad mojo, and if I’m buying from a grocery store I’m waiting till a sale and freezing up a bunch.

      • Ah, yes, guilty until proven innocent.

        It’s been shown that lead in the form of bullets has nothing to do with lead deaths as it isn’t readily absorbed. I don’t have the link readily available but will try to find it as it was in the Outdoor Wire or one of the emailing recently.

        Lead had been used for several centuries and not everyone and everything had been dropping dead so get a grip.

  3. I never quite got the attention to hunters ammo as a pollutant. Unless I’m doing it wrong hunting requires far less ammo than IDPA or 3-gun or plinking in the back lot. If there is a health risk shouldnt the 400 rounds at least weeks match be more of a concern than the two rounds last deer season?

    • it may be related to the animal being contaminated with lead once hit by the bullet.

      • Given the fact that most of the PETA bunny-hugging types in Nazifornia are also gun grabbers, I’d say this is a reasonable conclusion. Birds of a feather, so to speak…

    • They are claiming harm by ingestion not from shooting the gun. This is described at the end of this page: http://www.nps.gov/pinn/naturescience/leadinfo.htm

      I am not sure if I buy it yet. My bullets never look as fragmented as they show. Also my last 3 or 4 elk have all been headshots and I don’t eat the head. I would need to see a study that shows hunters who actually eat the meat have a higher level of lead in the blood but the study about pigs is pretty good evidence.

      I won’t be switching soon. I tried to switch but I couldn’t find a non-lead bullet that my rifle would shoot accurately. I went from 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with lead to 6 or 8 in groups with non-lead. Trying to find a bullet that would work got expensive so I gave up.

      • In the case of your rifle deteriorating accuracy with all copper bullets, did they weigh the same as the lead core bullets? Just curious because copper weighs less than lead and a bullet that weighs too light for the barrel twist in the rifle will often be inaccurate, but a heavier bullet will restore accuracy.
        There’s a formula for calculating bullet weight based on barrel twist that is really helpful in this kind of situation.

        • Just a word on the calculators, they are usually based on lead projectiles. The issue with twist rates is not really the weight of the bullet, it’s the length. When you’re talking about projectiles of the same diameter and same material, then weight and length become different measures of the same thing. However, a 150 grain copper bullet will be significantly longer than a 150 grain lead bullet of the same diameter, requiring a faster twist. So, if you’re not swapping barrels, all other things being the same, you will need to shoot a lighter bullet if shooting copper bullets.

        • Point taken. My experience was based on lead core bullets in an AR-15 A2, so the difference for all copper bullets is appreciated new information. Thanks.

      • SAS208. You didn’t say whether you using OTC cartridges or hand loading when you mentioned the problem you are having. That’s a really huge change at 100 yds. At least I’m assuming you are talking about 100yds.

        I have been experimenting a little with hand loading Barnes and encountered some difficulty getting good small groups with my .270. The 130 gr. copper bullet is significantly longer than a 130 gr, lead bullet in order to meet the same weight and consequently shoots differently. It took a fair amount of experimentation with different loads and I finally found one that got the groups down to the 1.5 inch groups I have always obtained with factory ammo. I then started experimenting with adjusting the COAL (with great assistance from Barnes) and found that a COAL change of .005 in the COAL made a HUGE difference. Suddenly the gun started shooting 1/2 minute groups! So I have a 130 gr. TTSX load with a MV of 2950 that groups -MOA at 200 yds. The load is well within the SAAMI spec for .270 as well. It’s very similar to finding a lead cartridge that the gun likes. Guns can be very finicky about what they eat so don’t be afraid to change brands and/or bullet weights.

        I also have a .308 TTSX load for my lt. wt. Ruger 77. Barnes recommended I try a 130 grain for that gun as well and the gun hated it…spit ’em all over the place. I suspect it might the whippy barrel so I tried the 150 gr. TTSX and slowed everything down a little and the gun shoots the first two shots into .75 inch groups. After it starts to heat up, the groups widen but hopefully I’ll never need more than two so I’m pretty confident in the load. In those guns I really like the Barnes all-copper.

        Having said that, my Bushmaster Varminter 5.56, shoots well under 1/2 MOA (5 shots) with Hornady V-max frangible lead bullets and my Model 12 Savage .308 drives tacks with a 165 Hornady SST, so I won’t be changing those unless I’m forced.

        I also agree with Donnie GA, below.

      • “I would need to see a study that shows hunters who actually eat the meat have a higher level of lead in the blood ”

        That’s next to impossible, because other factors present, say, anywhere you might go, would sully the results.

  4. I’m not planning on hunting with lead bullets. It’s my choice, but I’m willing to spend a bit more cash to ensure that the meat I’m eating isn’t contaminated, and to ensure that the environment is a little bit cleaner. It’s only one box or so a season.

    Of course, ATF could fuck that up royally by banning copper or brass bullets, so fuck them in the ear.

    • Dang, don’t eat any doves, or pheasants, or grouse, or partridge, etc., as they’ll be ‘contaminated’ as well due the lead shot.

  5. I am in no way opposed to the “new” concept of non-lead ammo, however I think it should be noted that the Republic of California is currently, and always has been, the tip of the spear in trying to ban lead bullets/shot. Yes, other states command non-lead bullets, and all waterfowl is to be hunted without lead, but California is the only state, I believe, that thinks lead rifle ammunition is killing everything. Their concern is with the California Condor, understandable, however aren’t there scavengers/predators in every state that have similar habits as this bird? And health concerns to humans? One would have to lay some SERIOUS proof down for me to believe that one; considering the hundreds of thousands of pounds of wild game consumed in my area every year, taken with lead bullets, with no known side effects.

    • Exactly. Well, said. What I am hearing from this video is this,” Who needs proof? Do it for the good of the animals and your children”. Again this is trying to demonize guns by way of the ammunition. This is simply a way of dividing gun owners into those who “care” versus those who don’t. Divide and conquer….

  6. How ’bout the thousands of pounds of lead fishing weights left in the bottom of, say, the Columbia river? I’ve always wondered about that. 10-16 ounces at a time are launched out with no expectation of retrieval. Just raw lead in the same water we get our fish out of.

    • Yup, and it doesn’t pose as much of a problem because solid lead ingots pretty much just sit there…

  7. The lead controversy is full of half-truths. How many people have been shot and are walking around with whole bullets in their bodies? Chemically, lead is inert; it is not water soluble. “What about the kids eating paint chips,” you say? Well, that’s because the lead was rendered into a form that the body can absorb. It has to be finely granulated or aerosolized in order for this to happen. So even if these birds outright eat lead shot, the problems they face are more due to the size and shape of the projectile passing through their digestive tract than it is lead poisoning.

    Yes, in rare cases where a bullet hits a bone or something and splatters, it might make that part of the meat inedible. How many years have hunters been working around that? Have you, or anyone you know, ever heard of lead poisoning from meat from hunting expeditions?

    Lead is naturally found in soil just about everywhere. We’ve been flinging it around for centuries, and still do; America’s highways are littered with those lead wheel weights used to balance our tires. Wildlife doesn’t eat them.

    There’s no question that copper ammunition can get the job done, and the military has been using steel core ammunition for any number of years now. The problem, as some said in the video, is the cost: non-lead ammunition costs way more than regular ammo. This is why PETA and anti-gun groups have been pushing this; because anything that raises the costs of shooting makes more and more people drop out of it. To me, this video seems like propaganda taylor-made to further this idea among hunters. I remain skeptical.

    • While humans can “work around” fragmented bullets in a carcass, predators cannot. Yes, animals don’t go around just eating lead they see on the ground, but when it is in a gut pile that was carelessly left out in the open, they do eat the led shrapnel.

      This isn’t a reason not to use lead, but a reason to be careful with how we dispose of carcasses and other things that may leak into the environment.

      • Prove it. There has never been any proof that lead bullets in a carcass are a problem.

        It’s like global warming, if you believe, you can’t talk people out of it, especially in CA.!

    • Ca. banned lead wheel weights as well I think. I went to grab a box of adhesive weights for the first time in years (since a box will last 20 years in home use) and they were steel and cost 4 times as much.

    • ” Have you, or anyone you know, ever heard of lead poisoning from meat from hunting expeditions?”

      The reason we don’t is because lead is a cumulative toxin. It happens imperceptibly, over years.

  8. undecided. The evidence I have seen indicating that the animal would be lead-contaminated (from the bullet losing lead as it slows) is not convincing. For a lung shot, there is almost no edible meat along the bullet path.

  9. DJStuCrew-You are pretty spot on with your statement. Lead shot is not absorbed into the blood. The soluble stuff is the bad stuff. There are actually lots of studies that point this out too. I called my assembly member, but I’m pretty sure it fell on deaf ears.

  10. When possible, yes. Even if not because of government mandate. If you can’t (because of game type, cost or age of your gun) you should take extra precautions to avoid the lead entering the local predators. Burying gut piles and not shooting into water are must do’s.

    Being conscientiousness hunters is the first and most important steps to protecting our sport (and quashing the government’s attack).

    • Yeah… thank god the coyotes don’t have sense enough to dig them up, eh? As for shooting into water, there’s other reasons not to do so. But the lead does not leach into the water. Already covered.

  11. Convinced me. Anthony is also the perfect spokesman, as a hunter he gets cred. It’s also not that big a deal for me, as a handloader the cost difference isn’t gonna be that much more expensive. OR doesn’t have the lead-free laws most places, but if we can create peer-pressure it will be more effective than legislation.

  12. Already made the move. The Barnes ttsx is just as devestating as the nosler I’ve always used. Those x rays showed me the proof I needed. Why chance lead contamination when I don’t have to?

    As to cost, I’ve found Barnes factory ammo to be the same cost as other premium hunting ammo.

    I eat what I kill. It’s a no brainer.

    • Can’t assume that from the x-ray that is actually lead and not just bone fragments from bullet smashing through the vertebrea….. plus don’t think lead shatters either…. isn’t that the point?? but not an expert on that part…

      • It doesn’t shatter, true. It fragments. In the end there’s no difference.

  13. That video sounds like a complete propaganda piece. Who paid for it to be made? It seems way to professionally recorded and edited for a single hunter to make.

    I don’t know much about the effects of lead ammunition on animals, since I’m not a hunter, but I see deceptively edited footage already. Have you noticed the fast-forwarded and looped video of the eagle at 7:33, making it seem like it is twitching its eyes due to lead exposure?

    • I think that Anthony is a good spokesman and I would hunt with him any day, even though he is a bit noisy in the brush. The lead deposited as the bullet loses energy is not propaganda. The issue is whether it gets into the food chain or whether its in a “bioavailable” form that gets into your body when you eat it. As someone noted above, the primer is more of a concern than the lead in the bullet. The lead paint in our old house was more of a concern, because its more “bioavailable” – soluble so small fragments easily get into the body. The only real “propaganda” on the video is that one questions the neck shots as perhaps staged. Very good shooting, but hitting bone will fragment a lot more lead. A low weight retention bullet will leave maybe 1/8-1/2 oz of lead in the animal depending on the bullet. I’d like to see a study that directly links that to how much ends up in the body.

      Copper is expensive and used for wiring and many other things, so its not a good choice (more demand = higher price, the video is wrong about this). Bismuth is what is used in heavy-shot i believe and would be a better choice.

      • There are 7000 grains in a pound. If the bullet left 1/2 ounce of lead in the animal, it would equal 218.75 grains. An 1/8 would equal 54.69 grains. How big a bullet are you shooting? An 1/8 ounce or less would be more appropriate.

  14. I will stick with lead. It performs well and I find it very unlikely that any measurable environmental damage is being done by rifle or pistol ammo.

    • Ditto. How many hundred years have we been hunting with lead and consuming what we harvest with zero appreciable neuro damage?

  15. I don’t hunt yet I would switch to all copper or other material rounds if available. I’m mostly a rimfire shooter and even the “copper rounds” only have a thin layer of copper on them (not that I’ve ever opened up a 22LR bullet with a pen knife). I don’t know if anyone makes an all copper 22LR bullet.

    • If you had any conviction, you’d stop shooting until a full non-lead bullet for the .22 LR was developed. Just saying.

  17. Hunters are perfectly capable of making an intelligent decision on whether or not to use lead bullets. The state, the tree-huggers, gungrabbers, PETAphiles and assorted wingnuts are incapable of making an intelligent decision about anything.

    I note also that copper has the potential for being toxic, just as lead is toxic. So, there is no doubt in my mind that if lead bullets are banned, copper bullets will be banned just as soon as symptoms of copper toxicity are discovered in some rare species of flying gerbil or tree-dwelling minnow. Or unicorn.

    • I remember expensive copper jacketed tungsten rounds with which the gov tried to replace FMG lead bullets. Total failure. After millions of rounds they found semi-toxic tungsten compounds leaching into the water table and were found to be very mobile.

      Lead is almost the ideal gun bullet. Gold and Platinum are better (except for obvious reasons) and of course when you tried to clean your barrel no solution would remove Au/Pt fouling. Second to lead is copper.

      • If you want the functionality of lead, jacket some bismuth with a tin-antimony mixture.

        By varying the proportions, you can get any weight you want as bismuth is much heavier than lead, and mechanically it’ll be very similar.

        Prices would be comparable as well, and fouling would be lessened.

        This is a non-issue.

    • But if it only saves one Unicorn isn’t it worth it?

      Do it for the rainbows….

  18. My grandpappy back to his grandpappy used lead balls for hunting. Don’t see a huge reason to change.

    • Your grandpappy probably also used lead paint for his paint jobs, and asbestos for his houses. And centuries ago, Romans used lead for their plumbing.

      Sometimes we learn about how things that have “always worked just fine” are actually harmful.

      • “Your grandpappy probably also used lead paint for his paint jobs, and asbestos for his houses. And centuries ago, Romans used lead for their plumbing.”

        They used it for WINE GOBLETS, for cryin’ out loud! Pewter.

  19. would think most modern lead pollution was caused by exhaust from lead containing gasoline till the recent lead free period. that affected plants who provided the food for larger animals. where lead content shows up.

    i dont see most game animals foraging for spent lead projectiles.

    waterfowl, will keep a more open mind

  20. I do think hunters should switch to non-lead ammo for their actual hunting rounds. I understand it’s more expensive, but you can use traditional ammo for practice and switch.

    I do NOT think lead ammo should be banned in hunting. First of all it’s unenforceable. Second of all, I recognize it’s just another tool in the gun-grabber’s box to force up the price of gun ownership and the gun hobby at large. If I hunted I’d use non-lead ammo. I understand the ballistics change beyond about 100 yards, but in my area that’s fine–I’m not likely to see a target beyond 100 yards due to the heavy amounts of underbrush and wooded areas most people hunt in.

    If I lived out in a wide-open area and regularly had to take shots from 150, 200 yards or longer? I’d probably change my tune.

    • Sorry. Good thought but you practice with ammo you are going to use. You can’t just practice with one type and then change ammunition to hunt without re-sighting the gun because the impact point will change, maybe significantly.

  21. I use copper for the sake of the meat that I intend on eating. I however would keep the “cheaper” lead bullets for criminals and gun grabbers (when they come for my guns) – because a cheap lead bullet is all they deserve.

    It is my understanding that hydrocerussite and cerussite and some massicot are formed from lead deposited in the ground, however they are not very mobile and typically do not leach into water tables. Lead salts however are – but those are generally not made when lead is fired into the soil. Keep in mind… lead metal comes from minerals which are mined from the ground and firing lead into the ground returns that lead to the ground – that said I would keep lead away from bodies of water.

  23. i think that one should. i’m not suggesting that it should be a law, especially with the ongoing decline in hunting in general, but if it would become a law the laws currently on the books that outlaw iron, steel or other cored ammo should be elimintated. Copper is very expensive as compared to lead, and it is also harder to work due to a number of properties including a much higher melting point. if lead was outlawed the use of copper in ammo would increase substantially and probably substantially increase the demand and thus price of copper, so comparing the current prices is actually a underestimation of the actual price difference.

  25. Voluntarily, do what you want. I don’t hunt so I really couldn’t tell you if I would or not.

    However, state bans of lead ammo are “clever” ploys at making gun ownership unsustainable.

    They don’t care about the environment. They don’t care about the people.

    Of course, the rank and file may support it because they care about either of those. But, make no mistake, the higher ups only want gun ownership to end.

  26. While copper bullets do work well on some animals, it’s hard to beat the classics. Nosler makes an E-tip for those who want lead free, but nothing kills as efficiently as the Partition.

  27. I have hunted with lead since about the age of 10. I use lead bullets for range practice. I use hollow point lead/copper bullets for hunting animals, 2 and 4 legged. I reload with copper clad lead. I see no reason not to use them So, no, I will not switch voluntarily. As for Russ Bixby’s comments; I call BS on them. I have no use for the PC granola munchers. Their ultimate goal is to ban all hunting, period. I once worked with on young fellow of that persuasion. He told me in all seriousness that the group he belonged to wanted to kill of most of the world’s population until there were no more than 10 million hunter/gatherers. So I asked him why ban hunting now and allow your small population to hunt then? He had no answer.

    • Last I knew, most hunters – and there area lot of hunters – consider themselves to be very close to the land and very respectful of what they shoot. Many are quite active in environmental matters.

      While the lead from ammo isn’t a large portion of the contamination out there, the goal is elimination of human-introduced lead, so ammo is now in the sights of the environmentalists.

      The majority of those folks are not PETA, not grabbers and not anti-hunting. Many hunt.

      Not everything that has an impact on gun owners is the machinations of the grabbers; this is just natural overlap, pure and simple.

      Hell, bismuth has been used in shotgun shells for decades as it’s heavier than lead and not toxic.

      This is a non-issue.

  29. What the hell? I’m not sure how many times I’d have to shoot a deer with Nosler Partitions before it became unhealty to eat, but I bet there wouldn’t be much left to eat, anyway.

  30. Why don’t we look at ground water analysis from major military firing ranges that literally have tons of lead in the impact areas. Guess what? No real issues. Eating lead on the other hand would be a more legitimate concern.

  31. Banning lead bullets for hunting will bring bans on possessing lead bullets at all, which means outlawing all that ammo you have currently.

  32. Range dudes telling the Fudds they don’t need to hunt with lead bullets is kinda like the Fudds telling the range dudes they don’t need an AR15. MYOB.

  34. if you think that the lead bullets are not affecting the environment then you need to wake up. The California Condor is on the brink of extinction with scientific evidence that the lead bullets are a main cause! Not to mention the carelessness of us humans-one quarter cost the life of a Californian Condor, when a quarter thrown off the clift looked like a tasty treat to a Condor.
    Stubborn and ignorant people, like a few of you above, are ruining the planet for generations to come, bottom line.
    Get with the picture, and stop with the name calling, because if these kind hearted environmentalists are trying to save the planet that YOU live on, I think they (we) deserve respect, just like our beautiful planet.

    • I’d be happy to look at any “science” that supports your contention, but I’m skeptical of the sources I’ve seen thus far. That said, YOU also need to wake up to the fact that there are people who don’t give a rat’s ass about condors, and are hijacking the cause simply to reduce (and eventually end) all hunting and sport shooting. They want to mandate the outlandishly expensive ammunition to shut out sportsmen of more modest means. This is a fact. So the question remains: is this a true concern or is it a fake fearmongering campaign of political origin? Please convince me.

    • Then stop feeding them still born calves from dairy farms. The still borns are often from the cow eating lead junk or paint and causing an abortion. Why won’t you condor people test the carcuses you feed? Could it be you know they are contaiminated? Could it healty condors would reduce your funding. There is not one shread of evidence that hunting bullets are causing a problem, not one.

  36. After reading some of these responses from hunters, I have to assume that the lead they’ve been breathing in has significantly reduced their IQs, as lead is known to do. Unfortunately there are many studies that have conclusively shown that the lead they carry home on their clothes, skin, and in their vehicles, can do great harm to their families. But apparently they would rather cry “conspiracy” than play it safe, and switch to an alternative, and protect the the ones they love. Imbeciles….clearly.

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