According to the civilian disarmament industry, today’s highly evolved firearms and ammo are too highly evolved. They’re too lethal. Huh? Surely law-abiding citizens should have the best possible guns and ammo. Anything that increases an individual’s ballistic efficiency makes both them and society safer from criminals (who buy whatever guns and ammo they want) and government agents (whose buy whatever gun and ammo they want). Anyway, to quote Commander Taylor, they finally really did it. New York’s SAFE Act effectively bans modern sporting rifles. Connecticut’s about to go full retard, followed by the rest of the blue states. So what’s a 10-round limited, AR-less, no-hollow-points-for-you gun owner to do? Shotguns, lever guns, 1911s and multiple revolvers (a.k.a., New York reload)? What should slave state gun owners think about in terms of weapons and tactics?
Instead of tactical advice, here’s some strategic advice: MOVE.
This… basically…
Yes, because most people can drop everything and leave friends, family, and employment in the state they were born in at the drop of a hat.
Cowards run. Stand and fight. I live in California and I am not going anywhere.
If you were in Stalag 13 (or massa’s plantation) what would you do? Play Hogan’s heros or actually escape?
There are MANY areas of the US where employment opportunities are much better than anywhere in the Marxist NE. You’ll make new friends and if the in-laws are dumb enough to stay while should that drag you down?
When it all crashes you can all starve together in the NE.
I know what you mean, but at some point enough is enough. In the blue states the government keeps getting bigger, taxes are going higher and (gun) laws are becoming more and more restrictive. If enough people move out and the state loses significant tax revenue, they’ll have to stop and rethink their policies. This won’t happen overnight, so for many people it makes more sense to move sooner rather than later. People need to vote with their feet. Move to a state with reasonable laws, low or no income taxes, you’ll be much better off.
I partially agree. But tactically, politically, it is already lost in places like NY/CT. Move to a split blue/red state like IL, IA, MN, and WI and teach those people about firearms.
I suggest a tactical retreat to a free state.
A tactical retreat is good strategy; just understand they intend to bring it to you, WHEREVER you are.
But more gun owners in semi-free states will make it a HELL of a lot harder for them… just remember: they don’t attack from without. THEY ATTACK FROM WITHIN.
Come to Florida.
Plenty of guns, no winter.
Just lots of humidity, hurricanes, tornadoes and thunderstorms, cockroaches, alligators, wild pigs, and buzzy flying things that bite in the night. Hmmm.
If we leave our states they will stay blue thereby keeping influence in those states to Dems. Which will eventually lead to directly impacting the electoral college which in turn will KEEP Democrats in control of the Fed Gov.
Staying and fighting is the only course of action.
The effect will be less blue electoral votes everything else equal. The problem is many people leave blue states only to repeat their mistake and elect more Democrats thinking this time it will be different but it never is.
No thanks, I prefer to stay on the front lines. I refuse to leave my home just because these rejects and their offspring from so-called “red states” chose to congregate here in California. If we don’t stop this crap here or any of the other anti-gun state, soon there will be nowhere to run, oh i’m sorry “tactically retreat”. People need to take a take a stand. Too bad so many that claim to be patriots are such selfish cowards.
Move or don’t move, it doesn’t matter. As states become more urbanized, they become more blue. Any state with rapid urbanization will shift to blue eventually, once its large urban centers have enough population to outweigh the countryside. Make no mistake, Georgia and Texas and Arizona will also be blue in a decade or two – maybe not formally, but in terms of policies they will espouse (as both parties will move leftwards, chasing the electorate).
If you don’t like this, your only real option is to move to a state that basically is countryside. Wyoming, Montana, Dakotas…
int19:
You are just extrapolating a trend. The blue model is on the brink of failure. California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey and Maryland are in steep decline. These states, and the cities within them, will be short of public services as union pensions crowd out all other spending. You can see this now is Stockton California where bond holders will be stiffed to pay for public employee pensions.
Not all urbanized states are anti-gun. Look at Washington and Oregon. What makes places like Colorado turn blue are hoards of low information voters, increasing numbers of single mothers and refugees from failing entities like California. You are assuming that the blue model will continue to be attractive even though major blue states will become basket cases. Just today the Comptroller of California declared that if a private entity had a balance sheet like California it would be liquidated. It may be true that blue voters will turn some traditional red states blue but I think eventually places like California will revert to Red as they collapse into bankruptcy.
Trends, especially those that follow the path economic failure, never continue and the conventional wisdom is always wrong.
I’d like to see that happen in CA, tdiinva, but this state’s democrat run government and the mindless blue skinned voters that keep it that way will likely take decades to evolve and rejuvenate.
With a democrat run state government and a democrat supermajority in both the state senate and assembly, they can tax and create new laws as the spirit moves them.
I don’t see that changing anytime soon, much as I’d like to.
Roscoe:
You state the conventional wisdom and it’s probably true for the rest of this decade but what happens when schools close (like what is happening in Chicago) and the welfare checks stop coming because the state is out of money? There will be a surge in crime as there will not be enough police on the streets and the dependent class either turns to more crime or riots. Private security only goes so far. The State’s wealthy will have to leave their gated communities sometimes and not everybody can afford a body guard. That is when the state will switch colors.
If you go down the New York reload route, the next law will be to limit the number of guns you can carry at once.
I’m sure that will be in the works.
I know a BATF agent and he told me that rail guns are 100% legit as of right now so there you go!
Flamethrowers are also unregulated.
Can’t remember the poster, but I recall a post here some months ago, extolling the virtues of archery. Silent, ammo can be reclaimed and reused, and broadheads will penetrate soft body armor.
There are quite a lot of downsides to archery though, one is that both a quick draw and accuracy takes a lot of practice, it requires both arms to be intact, concealment and cramped spaces pose severe restrictions. The only reason I’m good at archery is because I was trained early.
Crossbow, but God help you if you miss, or are facing multiple BG’s.
I recall reading that post too – Dyspeptic Gunsmith. If I knew half the things that he did…
They are.
If you can build one powerful enough to be a useful defense against a bad guy, which doesn’t require a large cart to tow its power supply around, and uses rails that don’t wear out after a few hundred shots, the US military would love to talk to you. At that point you won’t have a gun problem anymore as you’ll be rich enough to afford bodyguards!
http://www.amazing1.com/magnetic-cannon-downladable-plans/
Have fun!
If you figure out how to turn it into a repeater I’d be interested in your upgrades.
Moving?
I mean, I don’t want to sound trite, but moving seems to be the best option. If that’s not possible, well, good luck?
Random thought, the more slave states restrict essential liberties, the more liberty minded folks leave the state, the less people there are to defend liberty, the more bad laws are passed putting more pressure on those who are left to leave… Its like a vicious feedback loop. What happens when America stops being a “melting pot” and instead self segregates the free from the slaves along lines in the sand?
Well… Drilling slugs and filling the void with powdered lead or lead wool comes to mind.
California is already imploding this way. If Federal government doesn’t change, those states will just be subsidized.
California and New York. Between 2000 and 2011 California had a -4.5% net migration rate, and New York had a -9% net migration rate. In the same time period, both states were the bottom 2 least free states in the union. People are fleeing. In 3 years, when my undergrad degree is completed, I will be fleeing the “Golden State” as well.
Source: freedominthe50states.org
Upon retirement, or early retirement, I’m out as well.
Source: me.
BUT idiots move to places like Colorado and vote for the same assholes they did in new york.
People in CA are going to need ARs sooner than anyone else. The SHTF scenario is coming to them in a big way. Stockton, CA is the first domino. A judge just granted the city bankruptcy protection. $900,000,000 in unfunded pensions there alone.
The bankruptcy issue is just a way to avoid that liability. The police will still be funded, as well as all essential services. Not that the gangs will notice…
America was never a true melting pot (did you forget the Civil War)?
But it won’t segregate into “free states” and “slave states”. It will segregate into states depending on which aspect of their citizens’ lives it will regulate. No guns in CA, and no gays in MS sort of thing. Pick your poison.
“Blue becoming bluer” is an actual Leftist election strategy, making entire states like gerrymandered minority districts.
Of course, anybody pursuing that strategy is assuming (1) that the process can be rolled out to eventually engulf current red states, and (2) that the blue-model crash is infinitely forestallable.
Both prospects strike me as dubious, but Leftists are ideologically programmed to seize every scrap of power they can. All for our own good, of course.
Cowboy assault weapons. If the civilian disarmament fools had been around 150 years ago, they would have been screaming to ban high-capacity lever action rifles. Tube mags? Fuhgeddaboudit!!! A 24″ .38/.357 lever action can hold 13 rounds. While not ideal, still pretty damm good.
This. If you can’t move and don’t want to break the law, cowboy the eff up.
Those lever guns are mostly made in Brazil (Rossi) or Japan. Think they’ll use the arms trade treaty to plug up (or at least try)? Any way, I’ve wanted a 357 lever for a while. Can’t find a good one cheap enough for my taste.
Check out the Marlin 1894C. I have one, it’s awesome.
When the imports are banned, it will create market space for domestic manufacturers.
Like Ralph said, if imports dry up, domestic production will kick in…just expect them to cost much more than they do now.
Henry is in NJ – expensive, but really nice.
The question is .357 or .44 ?
I don’t think there was any regulation around them, but when lever-action rifles were introduced into warfare there was concern that maybe firearms were becoming too dangerous.
Pope Innocent attempted to ban the crossbow.
Somehow, personal defensive devices are always deemed “too dangerous” for individuals to use.
I have two, a Rossi and Marlin both in .44 mag. 10 rounds in the tube (though King Cuomo says I can only load 7), and each one a man stopper. Reloads are slow, but there you go.
They should move.
The criminal government & all her tyrant minions? Yes, I agree. The government *should* move.
To North Korea.
Well… Drilling slugs and filling the void with powdered lead or lead wool comes to mind.
For a pistol you have to go with a 45 if you are limited to FMJ because you want to make as big a hole as possible and if you can’t even use a ten round magazine then your only choice is the 1911. Make sure you have lots of magazines on you. If you want a revolver than I would go with the S&W 686, or if you want to play Dirty Harry, the Model 29.
Long guns can be problematic. If I understand correctly the SAFE Act exempts rimfire. A Savage bolt gun in 22WMR would be a good rifle, they are accuate, reliable and have detachable magaiznes. I know Winchester bolt guns can be modified to receive stripper clips. A Model 70 in 243, 308 or 30-06 would be in order. A working ’03 Springfield would be a good choice too. I don’t know the status of Garand but obviously if your blue state allows them then forget all the other advice and just go with the M-1. Even if they let you have a 10 round magazine for your AR I would still go with M-1. Eight rounds of 30-06 beats 10 rounds of 223 any day.
M1s are still available but the wait time for the order is long. I got mine after two months. I wouldn’t hesitate to use mine in defense.
I made a poor man’s battle rifle out of my dad and my Remington Gamemaster 760s. Pump action .30-06 with 10 rounds and decent accuracy. You can do the same with the semis as the magazine fits multiple Remington rifles.
I just recently purchased a Remington 750 in 30-06. You can get 10 and 20 round magazines for it. The gun gets hot pretty quickly and I would only count on it for about 60 rounds. Hopefully any self defense firefight would be over by then.
Can you still use SP? And, isn’t the nomenclature “armor-piercing ammunition” used to ban JHP? Isn’t that a bit like banning “high-speed arial assault platforms” to institute a ban on submarines?
On recent trips to Walmart and Cabelas, I’ve noticed that .30-06 ammo seems to be plentiful — by which I mean there’s always several boxes on the shelf — and prices don’t reflect the current Powder Alarm.
Makes me wish for an M1.
Washington’s a blue state and our gun ban got firmly smacked down.
It’s not a permanent victory, of course! Like mosquitoes carry Yellow Fever, they keep coming.
In Florida, we have Mosquito Control.
But no palmetto bug control. Shudder.
+1
If you’re a gun owner who doesn’t live in a “free state”, leaving results in one less voice opposed to these anti-gun measures. That’s something to consider before people abandon where they live.
That being said, anybody’s welcome to best kept secret in the lower 48 – summer in the Pacific Northwest! =)
Summer is fine–but then there is the winter. One of my kids moved to Tacoma, and he was loving it until the rains came, especially since his only transport is a motorcycle.
On the flip side, we got no snow this winter (except in the mountains). I’ll take the rain over feet of snow anyday!
There’s more to Washington than I-5 corridor. And weather patterns are quite different west of the Cascades.
“leaving results in one less voice opposed to these anti-gun measures”
“leaving results in one less voice opposed to the liberal agenda” – there, I fixed it. The Democrat controlled states passing this stuff would view an exodus of gun owners who might oppose them at the polls as a feature not a bug.
Hey, what do we care if they pass “common-sense” laws and none of us are affected, because we don’t live in the same state? As long as this bullcrap doesn’t happen on a Federal Level liberals in other states can pass whatever they want. And if Washington goes full-retard (unlikely), hey, I’ll be the first one to move out to a freer state.
I’d love to see more pro-gun voters here in Washington, so come on over. Like others have mentioned, there’s actually a lot of variety climate and terrain, and the economy doesn’t suck as much as it used to.
I saw the writing on the wall a couple of years ago and sold my “scary black guns” and semi-auto pistolas.
I have a revolver fetish anyway. But, for all of us morons who chose to remain in the land of retards, I’d recommend a snubby .357 (6-shot preferred) with a cylinder machined to accept moon-clips. With enough practice it’s possible to reload in under two seconds, or faster if you are really coordinated.
I have been thinking about a 686 but I haven’t been able to the find one. But I think the 1911 is safe because it’s only has a seven shot magazine. I don’t think they are smart enough to count the one in the chamber.
As I said above as capacity come down the 1911 looks better and better. The only real advantage that 9mm and 40 cal have is more rounds. If you lose that advantage bigger is better.
No, the advantages of 9mm, and to a lesser extent 40, are less recoil, lighter and smaller guns, and cheaper practice ammo. All of which are important. If you leave your 1911 home because it is too big to conceal or too heavy to bother with, it isn’t helping you as much as a Kahr CW9 (7 rounds of 9mm) that you can always have with you. A 9mm that you can afford to take to the range is a lot better than a 45 that you can’t afford.
The only time I leave my 1911 at home is when I walk my two dogs. A one handed shot with a 45 of any size is problematic.
I have no trouble concealing a full sized 1911. If I am in my street clothes I wear some nice untucked LL Bean shirts that reveal nothing. If I am wearing a coat and tie I just put the holdster farther back and leave my jacket on. Nobody has ever called me out while I was carrying. Any sized automatic can be concealed. You may not be able to wear a tee shirt and shorts but that’s a small price to pay for self defense.
My typical practice routine is a box of 45 and a couple of hundreds out of my 1911-22.
Tdiinva, you can also purchase a s&w627Pro 4″barrel. 8 shots that accepts moon-clips. This gun would have probably postponed the wondernine revolution by many years if it were on the scene in the 80’s.
As long as your hands are big enough or your fingers long enough for the trigger. I got long boney fingers so it works just fine.
Did our nation’s forefathers move or compy? We are Constituionally bound to resist all forms of tyranny.
Where would they have gone?
Spit in their eyes. Just like an illegal order, you have no moral obligation to obey an illegal law.
Well, technically, their ancestors moved to the New World to get away from the sh!t samm’ich that was aristocratic Europe. Then it came a’lookin’ for them. The rest is history.
Yeah, right. It won’t happen. The President thinks he can murder Americans without trial…no revolt yet!!!
The founders left England behind and then rebelled when it followed them.
The ultimate ammo-scrounge-system:
Buy an H&R Pardner 12 ga. single shot and a set of 12 ga. chamber adapters, allowing you (in this ammo-contrained environment) to shoot: 12 ga., 20 ga, .410 ga., 45LC, .44 Mag, .357Mag, .38spcl, 9mm, & 22lr.
Peaceful non-compliance. If they want it, they gotta find it.
Running away solves nothing.
They should break tha law!
Those “laws” are immoral, unethical, un-Constitutional, illegal, and completely null and void in every sense. Don’t be a slave. BREAK THE FVCKING LAW!
+1 spit in their eyes and “Molon Labe”
Will you?
You were a lawyer. Do you think anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together would incriminate themselves in print here?
Ralph, I wouldd hope you know by now that I’m a man of action.
Thankfully, I don’t live there. But the idea is to organize a massive protest where everyone is “illegally” armed in blatant defiance of the “law.” They most likely would not attempt to arrest a mass of people who possess the means to resist. But, if I’m wrong, then let it begin.
The Brooklin Bridge incident proves they have the capacity for mass arrests, if they want to go that route. Best case scenario nothing bad happens. Its dang near impossible for a protest of decent size with a serious theme to go uneventfully, at least from my experience. In addition to the intended target demographic, large protests tend to attract A) people protesting unrelated issues to piggyback for publicity, B) the folks with their tinfoil hats wrapped a little too tight, and C) anarchists, extremists, and those just looking for a riot. Worst case scenario you have an idiot or agent provocateur in your midst and SHTF. Alternately, the protest could go off without a hitch, then everyone identified with an illegal weapon/magazine/whatever from photos of the event could be arrested later since there’s photographic evidence that they committed a crime. Bottom line, its risky.
Nanashi,
I totally agree that it’s risky, but isn’t the animated contest of freedom always risky? Also, the Occupiers at the Brooklyn Bridge were not armed.
If Henry were a “man of action” he would open carry in DC. I will donate $5 to his legal defense fund for being our Rosa Parks.
I think your comment is the clearest demonstration of why our natural liberties have been trampled for so long. You’re waiting for someone else to fight for you instead of stepping up and making the change yourself. You, and others like you, are too timid to be free.
Just words Henry, just words. It is easy to talk about standing up to the man but it takes courage like Rosa Parks had to actually do it. And yes I know it was staged. It still took courage to do it.
Civil disobedience has a long and honorable tradition in the US. Once of the hallmarks of civil disobedience is the willingness to go to jail for your beliefs. Clearly you aren’t. I am sure that if someone organized a DC “carry-in” you wouldn’t be in the front row if you were there at all.
People who do seldom talk and talkers seldom do.
How is it clear that I’m not willing to go to jail? Because I haven’t laid out every incident of my activism to you? You’re awfully presumptuous.
I would never advise someone to do something that I am not also willing to do. And, yes, I’ve been to jail for defying the state. Unlike you, I’m not waiting around for someone else to fight for the causes I believe in.
As long as someone is doing what they can, that should be the standard. Yes, there may come a time when blood needs to be shed. More likely, there will be times when we stand in the cold or heat, and maybe get arrested. But think of all the people who do nothing! At least the man is willing to part with some cash for the cause. We all have busy lives, and to me, that’s just as worthy an effort. I’ll bet Sarah Brady doesn’t quibble — she just cashes the checks. Let’s not look for excuses to fracture when solidarity is needed now more than ever.
So I guess you are our Rosa Parks. Bully for you.
There are legit options for those in Rights-Restricted states.
– Pump shotgun with 5+1 buckshot
– 1911 w/7+1 (or 8+1) 230gr ball
– Pump (or lever) rifle with Extra long tube mag.
How long before some bright spark out there comes up with some nifty new ways to make manually operated, tube fed guns Extra-tacti-cool?
Wait, Mossberg already sells a lever-gun with a quad rail.
Sporting semi-autos are still legal, at least in NY State:
http://www.governor.ny.gov/assets/documents/Rifles_imagesoriflesthatareNOTclassifiedasassaultrifles.pdf
You must use legal-size magazines, but going lever-action is not a requirement yet.
For home defense a shotgun with buckshot or slugs is perfectly adequate and in many ways ideal – Joe Biden is right about that although his tactical advice could be improved. A semi-auto is best, followed by a pump, followed by a break action if that is all you can get. 20-guage is preferable to 12 IMHO. Rifles are really not as good as shotguns unless you can’t handle even a 20-guage.
Not too many slave states allow concealed carry. For the ones that do, 10-round or even 7-round semi-autos are preferable to revolvers, but revolvers are not to be looked down upon. Expanding ammo is better than not, but not essential. I’ve heard that there are some legal loopholes – for example Federal “Guard Dog” ammo is technically not hollow point but it still expands. If you decide to play legalistic games be sure to talk to a lawyer first – the authorities may not be amused.
If you can’t have expanding ammo at all, then bigger calibers are better than smaller, but keep it in perspective. All the power in the world is worthless if you can’t connect with it. The basic rule of CCW selection is still the same: you should have the biggest, heaviest, most powerful gun which you can carry all day, conceal effectively, and shoot fast and straight when under stress.
Don’t worry too much about magazine capacity. Most self-defense incidents are resolved just by displaying a gun and telling the bad guys to go away. If it goes to shooting, it doesn’t take a lot of rounds in most cases. More ammo in the gun is obviously not a bad thing to have, but it is a lot less important than (a) having a gun, and (b) hitting something vital with every shot.
The real problem with living in a slave state is not the limits on hardware but the attitude of the authorities towards self defense. They are going to nit-pick and cast everything you do in the worst possible light. Talk to lawyers, seriously consider having one on retainer or at least pre-selected with off-hours contact info. If the authorities notice you in any way, the only thing you should ever say to them is “talk to my lawyer”.
the answer is right in front of everyone. the same thing people keep saying.. “I will not comply”, “come and take it”. simply ignore these infringements and go about your life. keep your rifle and exercise your rights. not a single round needs to be fired. it’s your property and you’re abiding by the law as written in the constitution.
RF, as un-PC as it is, please continue to use the phrase “full retard”. It’s about the most perfect description of what these willful fools are doing to themselves and their supposed constituents.
If hollow-points are banned, what about hunting rounds? Soft tips? Don’t know how much of a difference they make over standard FMJs, and I don’t know if they make .45 or 9mm soft points, though.
Soft point revolver ammo doesn’t generally expand when fired from a pistol. From a rifle it generally will expand. So if you have a .357Mag or .44Mag lever gun, by all means load it with jacketed soft point ammo – that is what the ammo is designed for and it will work just fine. I’m not sure about 9mm, 40, or 45 caliber rifles – those cartridges generally aren’t loaded to take advantage of a long barrel the way some revolver cartridges are.
Winchester has a line of WINCLEAN with a “brass enclosed base” and soft lead point. The idea was to shield the base from propellent to reduce airborn lead indoors, but they sure look like softpoint hunting rounds. I bought a couple boxes in .40 but shot them all off because I read on the internet that the greeny primers don’t store as well as traditional ones. I’m just regurgitating FYI, look into it more if before using target ammo for self defense.
1. Move. Stop giving Tax dollars to your F**** up state
A. Realize it’s not going to get better in your lifetime
2. If you are stuck there
A. Get any and all fire arm licenses, carry permits, ect
B. If somehow, your state allows you to get SBR, Suppersors, Pre 1986 Machine guns, and you can do it, do it
C. Take a newbie shooting
D. Write down any and all lawmakers who supported Gun Bans, and make sure you and everyone you knows who votes, knows not to vote for them
3. Shotguns, lots of them. Lever Action Rifles. Glocks, MPs, XDs and all the scary guns you can buy
Leaving a slave state is not a viable strategy until the Federal gun ban proposals are resolved. If FOTUS (Fuhrer Of the United States) gets his way, it won’t matter if you move to a free state, since none will be free. The choice will be between various degrees of slavery. Texas, for example, will be better than New York, but that’s damning Texas with faint praise since both will suck.
After the D.C. assh@ts have their way, then it will be time to commit to a change of location. I’m working on mine.
In Switzerland, with an easy-to-obtain permit, you can own Ground-To-Air missiles, full-auto MGs, and other “weapons of war” that would give DiFi cardiac arrest.
IF shit hits the fan here. But let’s try and stop that first.
Can you try to run the system down? Register the wrong types of guns. Register magazines one at a time. Constantly submit incomplete paperwork. Don’t break the law but certainly make it expensive for them if you comply.
Oooh, I like this idea. Non-violent, civil, and complies with the law, technically.
Buy a few pallets of water guns. Print out registration paperwork for each. Deliver hardcopies to the state.
If you can’t retreat, and join us in the free states, I’m gonna have to go with uncle Joe on this one and recommend a 12 Gauge. In fact, “Buy a Shotgun!” might be the only advice I’ve ever taken from the Executive Branch. Anyway, a good 18″ barrelled pump shotgun is still one of the cheapest and effective ways to defend your home. And honestly, I’d skip the PDX and the Buckshot and go with some good game load instead- less likely to penetrate your neighbor’s walls.
But, I would keep some double-ought for the “civil unrest” patrol. It’s more than enough to put a thump on a law-breaking, armored-up tactical squad.
bird shot is for little birds. the 12ga not a precision instrument though and there are situations i could foresee needing more precision.
Then invest in some quality shotgun slugs.
They over-penetrate like no other home defense caliber. I’m going to go with “no” for slugs.
Tactical move out of the state. If not possible then multiple firearms (NY Reload) with two or three Marlin lever actions in .44mag. for the homestead (up to 33-rounds of jacketed soft point 240 grain), and two quality sidearms in 45 APC (HK or Glock with 10-round mags. ) with multiple magazines. One 12 or 20GA shotgun and one long range scoped bolt action. Although depressing, I would feel better with that.
it pays to have a choice at hand- shotgun, 30-06 etc at hand. one thing ive learned is when bad stuff happens, its rarely how planned it. laws have loopholes. and, a lot of hunting ammo is soft tipped.
S&W 625 and lots of moon clips and/or a clip fed M-1 Garand with BM-59 front end and para folding stock will stay under the radar for a while…
Moving out of state would be more strategic than tactical, wouldn’t it?
We have proven many times over that Americans will not fight. Since we refuse to fight the bullies keep pushing and pushing!!
Where are the real men that this nation needs right now???? We have lost the battle without even throwing a punch.
Go on and keep talking about what guns will work in the absence of modern semi-automatics. Why not trade cookie recepies while you are at it?!?!
Got a good one for chocolate chocolate chip?
Ummmm, chocolate, chocolate chip. 2 is always better than 1.
I’ve found the fabled “good men” of legend to be few and far between. (Hint: look for the geeks) Now, if you need a good woman in the fight…
Personally I’m a fan of sugar cookies. my favorite recipe is http://www.vegweb.com/recipes/sugar-cookies
Forget ALL that crap. What slave state gun owners should think about in terms of weapons and tactics is bringing in the NRA, starting class action lawsuits and slapping down these idiotic POS bits of legislation in the courts. Also, get off the couch and campaign to REMOVE these fools from office! Elect pro-gunners ONLY. There comes a time when voters need to choose which issue is most important and then vote on that ONE ISSUE. Do not settle for neutered Constitutional rights! These laws are unconstitutional and I wouldn’t abide by them for ten seconds.
I think you mean bringing in the SAF.
NRA are blowhards. The Second Ammendment Foundation does the dirty work.
Lifetime membership $150!
I know — I’m a lifetime member — got the belt buckle and everything! Love ’em or hate ’em, though, the NRA is the Big Dawg of the pro-gun block. And if you want to talk about who spends the most money on legal challenges, that would be the GOA.
While I won’t say they were super effective, or seem to have spent much time learning the particular nuances of what we were facing, the CT NRA state liaisons (who I nicknamed, affectionately, aging Ken and Barbie) did testify at two hearings and were gleefully abused by Sen. Jill Hartley. In addition, they were lobbying at the Capitol. Also, along with our local 2A groups, the NRA coordinated and paid for buses to the Legislative Office Building so we could be ignored by our elected representative. It is also covering the cost of a “Take a Bus to the Capitol and Watch Freedom Die” tomorrow when the vote is expected to take place on the “no guns for you, peasants” bill.
Honestly, on the state level, the NRA does not have the muscle it has in DC. But for what its worth, it did make an effort to help in CT.
In terms of court action, I do not know about the SAF or NRA, but the CCDL, a great local 2A group that has been coordinating its 4,500 members throughout this process, has already set up a legal fund. The CCDL is a great organization and if you want to stick it to the Liberal Fascists running CT consider joining (its free) and maybe make a donation.
http://www.ccdl.us/
All three do good work with different tactics. NRA is the big elephant that among other things educates and influences in the key congressional staff space so Reps and Senators know the facts and constituents views before theyget their arms twisted in closkrooms or bribed at private White HouseHouse dinners. SAF in legal challenges and GOA sa
Remember that long guns always stop determined aggressors more effectively than handguns. If you want to obey the new laws, my top recommendation is a .357 Magnum lever gun — which will launch a 158 grain bullet at over 2000 fps! (I only suggest .357 Magnum over .44 Magnum because a .357 Magnum lever gun holds more rounds in their tube magazine.)
Regarding locations that outlaw hollowpoint bullets, consider either wadcutter or hardcast lead flat nose bullets. They make holes that are much larger than the bullet diameter. Just be aware that they often penetrate much deeper than hollowpoints and consider what that means in the situations that you might encounter.
One final tip on pump-action long guns: many people do not realize that you can hold down the trigger and fire as fast as you can pump. (The gun fires at the end of the back stroke each time you pump.) That means a person could easily fire 8 shots in 4 seconds. Of course this is only effective at very close ranges. Nevertheless it can be an incredibly useful strategy in certain situations.
+1 on the SWCs. Cheap but effective.
Samurai sword. Think Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction. Bat? No. Chainsaw? No. Sword? I know you want that gun Zed… Go ahead, pick it up. I want you to pick it up.
NY resident here. Short term = 12 gauge for the house, Garand for SHTF scenarios. Long term = VA, NC, FL or TX. All I need to put my house on the market and get moving is a job…and I am looking.
A warning to my brothers and sisters in gun-friendly states. I live in New York. Please don’t let what happened to us happen to you. All it took was one high-profile mass shooting and my rights to buy another modern sporting rifle (which were already limited) are gone. The AR I do own has to be registered. No more internet ammo sales after Jan 14, 2014. No mags with a cap higher than 10, and we’re only allowed to load 7.
Be vigilant. Write your reps constantly and oppose any attempts at any gun control. Join the NRA, GOA, NAGR, SAF, JPFO or whatever other gun-rights advocacy group floats your boat. VOTE! In every election state and local. I hate to get partisan, but probably a good idea not to vote for any Democrats. I knwo there are pro-gun Democrats out there, and it is pro-gun Deomcrat Senators who will ultimately kibosh Federal gun grabs, but there is always the risk they will cave. Do not vote for any Democrat unless you are sure he or she is an ardent supporter of the 2nd Amendment who will not bend to pressure.
You must fight. The blue states are lost, though us Blue-staters who can’t move at the moment will battle on. If we lose the red states, it’s all over.
Yeah, there is something undeniably ….romantic about the idea of calling the Garand back to service on the home front, especially given the circumstances. I think John Garand would approve, seeing how the Government never paid him a dime for his work.
Idaho is calling your name
The best tactical ideas don’t undermine Operational Security. Proceeding with the “Behind Enemy Lines” ideal, you have to get with the program of being high covert and mobile.
I do think with FMJ that bigger is better but 1911s offer more steel easily recognized as a gun and if your shirt coming up on accident is likely to get you court time I would certainly go with a smaller gun. I don’t like 9mm FMJ for defense but a Kahr P9 is far easier to hide than most 1911s. Same idea carries for mags if they print or fall out of a pocket. Smaller is easier to palm and hide if you slip up.
Rifles, get a break open shotgun to start for price and raw power. It depends on preference otherwise. A couple articles mention the Remington 750, lever guns…it lies in your defense desires. But a scattergun needs a place in any home.
Moving is not possible for all of us. For those that live in a slave state such as California the trick is to vote, preach and try to convert those around us. A partial list of what I have. A makarov, Sigma, Russian SKS, mossberg pump shotgun, assorted revolvers and other shotguns and a pre safety Marlin 336. Pretty damn well armed for a slave.
I do not feel that I need an AR or AK to fend off the criminal types that I’ve encountered in my life. I’m not Rambo or McClane. However, I also feel that I and those who also wish it should have the right to pick if we want the AR or not.
And after making a gun shop run this morning and reading the stories about the government backed gun grabbers I no longer feel I have any obligation or alliagence to the government we now have. If they fail to see my civil rights I fail to see their legitamacy. I served my country proudly in my youth and I was proud to say that I would serve again if needed. While I’m still proud of my past service and the men I served with I will no longer offer my service to a political system with the likes of difi, biden and barry at it’s helm.
“Moving is not possible for all of us. For those that live in a slave state such as California the trick is to vote, preach and try to convert those around us.”
I understand what you are trying to do and wish you the best. But, it’s not working and you’ll never win at the glacial pace that California gun owners are operating at. Look at what is coming your way this year…it’s not pretty.
You have two other choices: revolt or leave. I see nobody choosing the first option, so only the second is viable.
The problem is the leftist scumbags that vote these tyrannical, leech goverments in also abandon the sinking ship when the time comes. And since the leftist mindset is built on a mental disorder of irrational, illogical, and self-loathing processes, they fail to learn from their mistakes like adults and now vote in the same politicians that destroyed their previous homes.
See: Mexican immigrants and Colorado.
The solution is quite the opposite. All red states should seal off their borders to new residents. It’s the only way to ensure they remain free. To those of you free-minded folk stranded in slave states? Sorry. Maybe it’ll finally light a fire for you to actually fight for your rights.
A pipe dream perhaps, but it’s fun to imagine, especially when the real world looks like how it is.
Keep suing your state and we’ll keep sending your organizations money to do so.
Meanwhile as criminals continue to do whatever our complaint will be vindicated and as police victimize the everyman people will see who occupies the ethical ground.
There is no implementation and enforcement of these gun controls that won’t look like (and be) a militarized state committing human rights violations.
“Keep suing your state and we’ll keep sending your organizations money to do so. ”
Doing so means you are submitting to the court’s jurisdiction and any decisions they make. The courts have shown again and again that they are not interested in reinstating strict adherence to the constitutions. This is slow, incremental change through many decisions resulting in the neutering of rights. Frankly, they know they’re not supposed to change any constitution with a ruling, yet continue to do so.
marlin 336Y, Remington 870P, and a Ruger Scout
Didn’t marlin make a .410 lever gun with 2 1/2 chambers? That would be awesome with pdx1 winchesters. A Remington 7600 pump in .243 with some light varmint bullets, like a Vmax should break up pretty well on interior walls.
Honestly, I’d say to ignore the laws and carry the biggest gun you can. In fact, let’s have every owner of a modern sporting rifle load up a standard mag or two and meet up to walk on state capitals? Not shoot anyone, but merely show how many of us there are.
Yup, better judged by twelve than carried by six.
357 mag lever carbine.
Remington 870 shotgun.
A pair of S&W 686+ 7 shot 357 mag revolvers. The New New York Reload.
Maybe someone will manufacture a rifle I’ve always wanted but never found… a lever action carbine in .45 acp. A few custom lever .45 acp conversions have been done. Ball ammo with the rounded bullet can not be used. We are talking about 15 to 20 rounds in a tube mag.
I would think the rimless .45 acp case would be the problem. Reliable extraction would cause engineering head aches.
Any 45 acp pistol extracts just fine is what I’m thinking.
True. But the .45 acp pistols were designed around the rimless design. Most of the lever guns I know were designed around a rimmed shell.
I wonder how browning and Savage made a lever gun that worked on rimless rounds? Both of those used a box mag instead of a tube feed. I wonder if the mag style made any difference in the reliable function of the action?
1 other advantage to a lever .45 acp would be the ability to use cast lead bullets reliably.
There is no benefit for the 45 ACP in a rifle barrel like with the 357 Magnum. The speed increase is nil… I’ll take a couple less rounds at rifle velocities any day
I’m looking for more rounds, not more velocity or kinetic energy, though the KE of .45acp from an 18″ barrel is almost double that from a 5″ barrel. Nothing to scoff at.
I think the same extractor used for a 30-06 or a .308 would work with a .45 acp.
Doesn’t a lever-action in .45 ACP essentially describe a .45 Colt? Could be wrong, not too familiar with .45 Colt in general.
Don, your wish has been semi-granted. It requires a bit o’ smithing, but nothing incredibly complicated…
http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/fa46922694e70e9f97e81c4de57e1515-941.html
Basically a rebored and slightly reworked Marlin 1894. Taking it from .44 Mag to .45 ACP. New ejector and a little filing here and there.
Thanks for that. The story he recounts from 25 years ago is the same story I heard that got the 45 acp lever carbine idea stuck in my mind!
I’m getting really tired of the “slave state” rhetoric here. Exactly who do you think this is convincing?
JLR,
The term “slave state” is an accurate description of the mentality of those in power.
They should stand on their 2 hind feet as real men and fight the law. Vote those commies out of office and change the law. If that doesn’t work, than refuse to follow the law. When the arrest everyone it will cost the states so much time (locking up the courts) and money It wouldn’t be worth arresting the good guys.
I’m thinking there’s still time to kick those Yankee’s asses. We haven’t forgiven you for Sherman’s human rights violations.
Continue your practice routine, but use some of the dumbass gun=grabbing politicians as your targets.
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. — Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. — Thomas Jefferson
I’m disappointed by the lack of real advice…
For bump in the night home defense many consider a pistol superior to a shotgun because it allows you to open doors, FBI carry a flashlight or herd non-combatants with your off hand. 1911 or a wheel gun would do the trick.
For bunkering a pump shotgun but only if you’re willing to put in enough time to run it effectively.
Battle rifle M1 Garand or M1A1
Not really a battle rifle but still semi-auto BAR or Mini-14
For bugging out a take down Ruger 10-20
As for strategic retreat, there’s no dishonor in depriving the anti’s of your economic effort or your headcount for the electoral college. If you live in a solid blue state like NY your presence helps the antis no matter how you vote.
I wouldn’t commit to moving until SCOTUS reviews NY SAFE. I believe it will not pass the common use threshold of Heller. I haven’t looked at CT’s law.
All you need is a sling on long guns, allowing you to use one hand. But a handgun on a belt is a nice backup.
I’m thinking the “Brace O’ Pistols” just came back into fashion!
For all the morons on this forum who actually voted democrat in the last election………dont EVER do it again (I can assume you have learned your lesson by now). If you have not learned your lesson, I want to smash your lower jaw into powder with a Ball-Peen Hammer.
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
In a partial-slave state on it’s way to becoming full slave(NJ). We have an asssault weapons ban and capacity limit of 15 currently, so it’s possible to have two 15 round mags coupled side by side on a state-legal AR15 with evil features disabled (comp instead of hider, fixed stock, no bayo lug), which was my current home defenese set up.
However, there are something like 73 anti-gun bills already proposed at the state level, several of which are likely to kill that option for me [at which point I’ll give any newly banned items to a family friend in NH, so that I’m still in good legal standing when participating in the inevitable fight to get the laws overturned in course/protests & rallys/etc]. If & when it comes to that, from a practical standpoint, I’ll have to go with my mossberg 500 20″ 12G loaded w/7+1 rounds of #4 buck.
Given NJ’s defacto ban on CCW, I currently have to just make due with a sturdy & bright flashlight (Fenix TK11 or Surefire Fury usually), with the strategy being a combination of blinding and/or improvised melee option. I’ve considered carrying a knife, but I never seem to get the same answer twice when I try to research our knife laws, and I don’t actually have formal training on proper defensive use of one, so I’m not comfortable risking it at present.
New Jersey has long been acknowledged as a slave state. You are far too optimistic about the nature of your state government.
And you’re needling over semantics.
Detachable magazine pump-shotgun with buckshot/slugs. Valtro MP5, a Baikal if you can find one…
Has anyone even looked at the Henry Big Boy in the picture? Leaning against a pole lever closed and the hammer in the firing position! If you are going to do this at least put the hammer down where it belongs. If this gun is loaded and falls it could fire. Henry’s don’t have safety’s when the hammer is in the firing position. The safety is with the hammer down and it can’t go off with their safety mechanism.
Yes, yes, we noticed the gun safety aspect, but that is not an important part of the discussion.
Ca has great weather and has my entire family and in-laws, so I will have to make it work. I am considering renting a room in Az and installing a gun safe -(so I could get a second C&R license and location). If I wish to see my grandchildren and/or my wife, I have to stay. Please remember that every like minded Californian will fight the good fight. You can all help by supporting gun owners and collectors by opening any internet sales to Calif residents. It might take a little longer, you might have to file a peice of paper, but you are doing a good deed by putting another firearm into the hands of an American(that happens to live in Ca)
I live in the Peoples Republik of Massachussetts. I went with a Mossberg 590 8+1 (deadlier than an AR but perfectly legal in MA) with a surefire forearm, night sight bead, high vis follower, hougue 12 lop stock, limb saver 1″ recoil pad, high profile metal safety, and 6 rd stock holder (15 rds in total). All in less that $1000 (cheaper than a decent AR)
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