“If you look at the early period of his leadership in the civil rights movement, particularly the period of the Montgomery Bus Boycott, his household, as one person noted, was an arsenal, with guns all over the place. William Worthy, who was a journalist…tried to sit down in an armchair in Martin King’s house and was warned by Bayard Rustin, who was with him, that he was about to sit down on a couple of guns.
“King was a man of the South, after all, and he responded to terrorism, he responded to violence the way most people in the South would be inclined to respond. So when the Klan…bombed his house in 1956, he went to the sheriff’s office and applied for a gun permit to carry a concealed weapon.
“Now, he didn’t get the permit…but Martin King always acknowledged — if you read his writings — the right to self-defense, armed self-defense.”
– Charles E. Cobb, Jr. in ‘Guns Kept People Alive’ During The Civil Rights Movement [at npr.org]
Damn straight. You’ll never hear about that on the Propaganda Machine.
Turning the other cheek is one thing. Letting someone murder you is something else, entirely.
Turning the other cheek (to me) is about enduring verbal insults to avoid physical escalation. I doubt that you feel the need to turn the other cheek when being physically attacked.
I’ve always wondered how the race baiting whores Al and Jessie managed to go against guns and ” continue MLK’s work against racism” and be anti gun. Either way, the more this gets out about MLK, the better.
Now, not to hijack the QOTD, but my mom and sister were home last night at 2am as someone tried to break in their home. My mother is an anti herself and my sister has been coming around. Now they won’t go home unarmed and I’m still too asleep to think straight. They both want their own gun, and my sister will be on crutches for the next two months. Suggestions, guys?
BTW, they hid on the closest and 911 response time was 17 minutes.
Sister, naa black widow put it in Pocket around the home. Fairly cheap and easy to conceal.
Hate to admit it but either a Canik Stingray (about 300$ if I remember correctly) or if it proves too heavy a Glock 19 (it pains me to recommend one).
But the NAA mini isn’t a bad idea either, since you can’t leave it behind under the pretense of “it is too heavy”.
Since I doubt your sister is looking to concealed carry, at least not just yet, she needs a HD gun rather than a easy to hide one. That said, being on crutches, she is going to need to home carry the gun, because the nightstand is way too far to hobble. So, basically the biggest gun she will actually carry. Get thee to the gun range rental counter!
I suggest the Springfield XD Subcompact in 9mm. I’m constantly having to keep my mom from ‘appropriating’ mine and the ladies at the range who tried it loved it. Especially with the Pearce grip extension and the rubberized Talon Grips. Points well and feels good in the hand, holds 13 rounds, and the Essentials version is under $450. Plus, the grip safety makes reholstering a lot safer: just rotate your thumb up to the back of the slide to disengage it first.
For sister, Ruger LCR, small, lightweight and plenty of knockdown power. Load with .38, +P .38, or .357 depending on what she is comfortable with. For mother, nightstand gun, Ruger GP… in .357, loaded with +P .38s or .357, again whatever’s comfy, preferably Speer Gold Dots.
I have seen very large men complain about the painful recoil of the LCR. Not saying that a woman cannot handle it. My friend’s wife enjoys shooting one, but she is an experienced shooter. And beyond the recoil, mastering a double-action trigger, particularly with such a short barrel and sight radius, is not easy. Definitely not a firearm that I would recommend for a newbie.
The 327 magnum never really took off, but it is a great choice for self-defense for those non-POTG. Simple to handle and care for, revolver, 7 rounds in a cylinder, and with a few choices of rounds to run in it, you can load the power level the person can handle.
It’s a good option if you limit the LCR in .357 to .38 specials. I cant speak for everyone, but the is where the size weight and recoil balance out pretty well. .357 magnums with the boot grips that I have on it are brutal, but I still have some desire to learn to shoot it with the 357s. I currently load it with 38s because I am not their yet.
I could not recommend a LCR in good conscience, .38 special and 5 rounds for HD is not a good idea in my opinion. As a backup or deep concealment piece? Sure, otherwise no.
Snubbies are much tougher to shoot than basically anything else, simply because they are small and lightweight.
I have seen very large men complain about the painful recoil of the LCR.
Yeah. When you have very large hands, the usual ‘two finger grip’ on the ultracompact guns basically becomes a finger-and-a-half grip.
This. Point and pull and it goes bang or you pull again. And if she’s using it in a DGU, she won’t complain about the recoil. Altho I would go with the .38 spec not the .357
Let them try out a several handguns. What they need is something they can shoot well. It needs to fit their hands (not too big or too small) and not be so powerful that the recoil intimidates them. Better a .22 they can handle than a magnum they can’t. A G19 would be a good starting point but there are many choices including medium frame revolvers. About the only thing to stay away from is a pocket pistol. The small size makes it hard to shoot accurately and one in a bigger caliber will kick like a mule.
Taurus Judge, full size with Hornady 410 (I think, or which ever ammo was preferred in the last TTAG study in the last few weeks). I find the heavier and longer the barrel the more manageable the recoil. Best of both worlds, revolver and shotgun. Not a concealed carry gun, but hide in that closet and whoever opens it up is a dead man. Get familiar with guns before deciding to lug one around all day. Hope for a speedy recovery.
I agree with Sabrewolfe. The local gun range rental counter may be as good a place to start as any. Some ladies have an aversion to revolvers. The LCR is a heavier recoiling gun. I can’t imagine that being on crutches would facilitate that in any way. The XD in 9mm is a fairly good choice. The ultimate in home defense will always be a shotgun in my mind though. It doesn’t over penetrate and just racking the slide back on a decent pump shotgun is enough to send most halfway intelligent people scattering for the door. You can pick up a decent pump for around 250.00 used and there are several very price efficient options new as well. The huge downside to that is that concealment is virtually impossible outside the home. Just really depends on what you are looking for, their budget, and what the long term of this whole situation is.
As has been stated before, gun range time, and time peruse the rental counter. My and my parents did this around last year, and we found what we liked, didn’t like and so forth. Its ended up that my mother ended up buying a glock 19 an a ruger LCR in .38 special. Dad got a Makarov, the CZ 82. I ended up gettting a G 19, LCR and LC9. Feeling the how the gun fires and how accurate you are with one vs the other will cement the choice and instill confidence.
“BTW, they hid on the closest and 911 response time was 17 minutes.”
And that’s why nobody should rely on 911.
17 minutes. That’s flat out disgusting.
What a hard lesson for them to learn. But thank GOD they are alive to fight back. GOD bless to your Mom and sister. All the best to your sisters healing and that their emotional scars will finally find peace.
Revolver for sister and mother.
As for MLK, I try telling my detractors they are racist for denying Blacks the right to self defense and then drop that tidbit @ MLK on them. Works Everytime
You hear me Shannon?
How did they let this leak on NPR? Someone must be asleep at the switch over there.
Or someone is about to get fired big time.
The comments on that article are precious. The historical and social literacy of our intellectual “betters” is severely threatened because MLK had guns and Ghandi didn’t mind them so much.
Both men understood a simple fact–if you really want peace, sometimes you have to fight for it.
Same goes for the late Nelson Mandela, who was imprisoned for fighting against the apartheid agenda.
Don’t forget Malcolm X.
I wonder what would happen if I accidentally recorded a call to either Sharpton’s or Jackson’s organizations and asked what they thought of this.
Pray for Peace but live in reality.
I don’t pray for peace as I’m not sure even God can conjure up a miracle that size.
Wow! I never knew that MLK was a gun guy, now I can nullify the argument of “Oh, important people like MLK were killed by guns!”
On a similar note, Ms. Caldwell of the Twisted Mind of a Gun Control Advocate piece earlier today was rather the opposite direction. She too is someone fighting for their gender, as it were, but she does not enjoy the protection of firearms that MLK enjoyed. I bet someone was fired for denying his concealed carry when he was killed.
If you think that the sheriff who denied King his concealed permit suffered for it in any way you misunderstand racial politics in the south in the 50’s and 60’s. A much more likely outcome was that he was lauded for his action, and may have risen to higher office based on that denial alone. It’s impossible to think that he was ever punished either officially or by his constituents.
Well honestly I wouldn’t go so far to say that Martian Luther King was a gun guy’. His method of protest were all non-violent. The difference being that he also wasn’t blind to the fact that people were out to do him harm. Hence we have the historical fact that he had people around him that were armed.
I had a running ‘discussion’ with some looser over at Fark about this very fact. That wasn’t exactly my best day given I was having a pretty piss poor day in terms of neurological function. But the point here was try to explain this very concept REALLY gets the anti gun freaks out there going. And it doesn’t matter how much historical concepts you throw at them they’ll just call you a liar anyway. They kind of consider MLK a bit sacred and any thing that challenge their notions about him usually makes them loose their minds a little.
Even if MLK had gotten that permit, James Earl Ray ambushed him by sniping MLK as he stood on a Hotel Balcony, so Rev. King “never saw it coming” and a concealed weapon would have done him no good. He should have gotten the permit even so given his standing as a national figure of prominence.
My recollection is that MLK chose “non-violent protest” for the very pragmatic reason he thought it likely his people would be shot down in the streets, if they did anything violent, or appearing to become violent. As it was they got dawgs sicced on them, sprayed with Fire Hoses, Tear-gassed, kidnapped and murdered by the KKK…so, bad as it was, it would have been worse had they been anything approaching violent. Just another testament to the wisdom of Reverend King. I believe that had MLK lived. the U.S. would be in a far better place today. He would not, and this is MY opinion, allowed the “Race Discrimination Industry” Jackson and Sharpton (and similar lesser persons) created to come about. He simply would not have allowed it.
If MLK had lived he would have been elected president in 1984. I have no proof of this, but it feels right.
@ the ruester, Actually, I had a line in my comment saying that I believe had MLK lived he would have been elected President, or his hand-picked African American Candidate.that he supported, or , at the very least he would have been Vice President. No specific date Election Date in mind. I thought, Well maybe that’s a “bridge too far” and took it out. Glad to hear someone else feels the same.
To understand the early black civil rights movement in the south, you need to read Robert Williams book “Negroes With Guns “. He details not only the culture of the south but also the fact that there were large numbers of black WWII and Korean vets out there. Folks forget that all this social upheaval happened only a few years after a world war.
While Williams politics are decidedly left wing radical he fought a battle with NAACP over defending the black community against the white power structure. It is a piece of history, like MLK and other black men (including Secy Rice’s father in Birmingham AL) , that is slipping down the memory hole.
Had to come back to this thread. I had totally forgotten that Fordham Law school professor Nicholas Johnson just recently wrote a book on the black history and culture of gun ownership. He is considered one of real brilliant 2A scholars today. He also was interviewed on CSPAN.
For historical purposes (LOL) future readers of this post can reference both links…
http://www.amazon.com/Negroes-Gun-Black-Tradition-Arms/dp/161614839X
http://www.c-span.org/video/?316565-1/words-nicholas-johnson
and Doctor King wasn’t the only one:
“The lesson this teaches and which every Afro-American should ponder well, is that a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home”
Ida B. Wells 1862-1931
We do not need a narrative of MLK or Gandi for justification of lawful self defense. Our democracy is failing citizens ability to protect themselves, it fails in liberty to choose lawful self protection, and it happily empowers criminals knowing the law is measured to protect them.
Do enjoy Julian Bond’s summary. “Rosa sat down, Martin stood up, then the white folks saw the light and saved the day.”
The point that many “non-violent” resisters don’t understand is that it only works in a society that is essentially one based on human rights and a justice system that mostly recognizes this.
MLK or Ghandi in Russia, China, Cambodia, Cuba or any other totalitarian regime would have just got a bullet in the back of the head or died in a gulag.
Thank you Mr. Cobb for not hiding, or skipping over a salient truth.
Noishkel, I am not following you. Someone that stuff their cushions with firearms IS a gun guy. The fact that he advocated non violent protests is irrelevant at worst and an argument for gun guy at best. Who in the gun community has ever advocated violent protests of gun control? In fact, the stance is that a good guy with a gun is a detterence to violence. Just because MLK advocated peaceful protest and moderation rather than escalation does not mean his intent was to allow protesters to give up the right of self defense.
I am glad Charles E. Cobb Jr.has spoken out about this and surprised it got published on npr.org. However, many of the comments are supportive of what Mr. Cobb is saying.
Maybe next up an African American Journalist, Intellectual, Historian or suchlike will write an article condemning the Democratic Socialist’s and Race Discrimination Industry’s virtual enslavement of Black Americans in the Inner Cities.
The real madness in the United States today is that a small few keep so many more in hopelessness and despair when there is still great potential for all Americans in this Country’s economy and social structures. The resolution for this lies in the principles and ideals the Founders wrote into the Constitution and the capacity of a free market economy to create opportunity for individual self-determination (which is the wellspring of liberty for every person).
Kelly in GA
Well, everything from a Taurus Judge, to an NAA mini revolver, and all the stuff in between. I’m sure your mom and sister know what to get now.
Not criticizing all the suggestions, Just think it’s amazing so many different ideas on home and self defense.
Some guy tried pulling that passive resistance crap on me last week citing Gandhi and the Arab spring.
I kindly pointed out that Ghandi was at the ass end of several violent uprisings and while he laid hungry on a cot fellow countrymen were attacking police stations and British offices with *gasp* guns and that in the Arab spring there were plenty of guns unfortunately supplied the only folks who had them besides the military and that was wonderful militant Islamists.
The notion of a regime collapsing to chanting hippies is good fantasy but behind every Gandhi there are revolutionaries packing heat and planting bombs. They both serve a purpose and compliment each other.
Al & Jesse are in it for the money. I suspect Jesse was ok until he realized how much cash was to be made. The vast majority of black folks I come in contact are decidedly pro self defense. Including my gorgeous black wife of 25 years.
Amen.
Heard tell of an outfit called “The Deacons” that saved a lot of folks from hardship around this time. Basically when blacks got threatened this group showed up with guns to protect them. Interesting story.
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