Tiffany Hawk (courtesy womensfictionwriters.wordpress.com)

“Is it time to start arming Transportation Security Administration officials? No way . . . If you’re the kind of person who thinks that every teacher and hall monitor and mall cop and cinema usher should be armed, then you’ll probably feel safer if we give guns to TSA officers. And maybe flight attendants and customer service reps and baggage handlers. And probably bus drivers and ballpark ticket takers, and hospital staff . . . Terrorism is a real concern for airlines, but like it or not, as Americans, we also have to worry just as much about angry neighbors with guns.” Former flight attendant with United Airlines and Virgin America Tiffany Hawk, Arming TSA officials not the answer [via cnn.com]

 

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110 COMMENTS

    • A neighbor suddenly becomes an “angry” neighbor when he’s discovered to own guns. Because obviously something must be wrong with him.

  2. Another dumb flight attendant. However, based on what I’ve seen, I’m not sure it’s safe to arm TSA goons. They don’t seem to have much intelligence either.

    • I don’t see why they should be armed given their training and ccw license holders have to check their pieces at the counter and can’t even do that in places like JFK.

    • Sorry, but I’d bet that most TSA agents couldn’t pass the background check to buy a gun, let alone get a CCW permit. I have no objection to armed security at key points in the airport (dont’ most places have Airport Police, plus there are usually ICE and CBP agents around too), but let’s not give guns to the glorified grocery clerks.

      • The same could be said of the SA and SS the Cadre was composed of street thugs and pimps but when an entire Regime is corrupt that is no problem. Look at Chicago, California, Detroit; all the largest criminals have CCWs while the poor slotnicks have nothing. “Guns for me, none for thee”

  3. Of course this comes from a flight attendant. If we were allowed to carry on a plane they couldn’t be such assholes to us…

      • An armed society is a polite society. That’s what I’m saying. Sounds like you’re an a-hole flight attendant.

        • The only A–hole around here is the one beneath your nose and above your chin. Need a more detailed map?

        • It’s always funny how some people- usually those with personality issues- think that guns can solve everything. Yeah, your big iron is going to make Ms. Flight Attendant love you.

        • Oh my, jwm. Is your mother or someone else close to you a a-hole flight attendant? You seems to have some anger issues with this topic…

        • My anger issues are with people that think that a gun is a negotiating tool if they’re having a bad day, Tex. If you think the reason for carrying a gun is to get respect from stews then you are a problem. The fact that you’re still digging the hole instead of owning up to the screw up shows me that it’s probably a waste of time explaining the obvious to you.

          For the record, my mother was a nurse. And also for the record. If you want to prove your low breeding and lack of class, bring some ones family into the argument.

          I even stood up for lower case matt when that happened, and you have no idea of my level of contempt for him.

        • jwm, my original comment never said anything about using a gun as a “negotiating tool” or to get “respect” from a flight attendant. I then said that an armed society is a polite society. I’m still not seeing what your problem is with any of those statements. I never said “yeah, carry in an airport / on a plane and wave it around.”
          I’m not really a big OC guy. I carry every day and concealed means concealed.
          You’re inferring quit a bit on your part.
          Your mothers a nurse, mines a teacher. Big deal.

        • Tex, re-read your first comment. How is that to be interpreted? You didn’t clarify about a polite society until you got called on it. And the first person to take it to foul language was you.

  4. It is amazing how these ‘tards (honestly I can’t find a better term) believe that “Allowing people to keep and bear arms, as per their second amendment rights” somehow equals “Forcing people to be armed.”

    Oh, and if anyone is going to ‘give arms’ to people, please start with me. I have a list of arms I would appreciate being given.

    • Ditto, please. And don’t stop until I can get away with being called “Ballistic Vishnu”

  5. Well, she was right…until she wasn’t.

    On a side note, where do all of these people live with “angry neighbors”? I’ve lived in several different places (in a variety of socio-economic communities) and have had neighbors that have been nothing but pleasant.

    • If you had to live next to a brain-dead, hoplophobe, liberal spewing their vitriol of the foundations on which this country was created all day, you might get a little peeved too.

      In other words, Tiffany Hawk’s neighbors.

      • I would not be neighborly to them. Simple as that. When the SHTF, that is the first person I would give to the wolves.

        • Careful! Disgruntled liberal neighbors are a bigger menace to gun owners than actual thieves, these days.

          Just moving your cased firearms from your house to your car with the “I’m the NRA and I vote!” sticker could result in you & your house being SWATed. Takes only a phone call.

    • My neighbors get a lil disgruntled when I do hot bluing outside or have to use a dremel for a few to shape somethin, but they are smart enough to realize 1. I have a girlfriend who would be displeased if I use any of those indoors, and 2. That I enjoy sleeping indoors so I end up workin outside of a morning and on my days off from my normal job.

  6. Wrong. I would feel much more comfortable arming normal, everyday folks rather than government agents. Government is infected by a much higher concentration of psychopaths and sociopaths than the rest of society.

    • I know for a fact that the TSA scooped up some of the most worthless people that I have ever supervised before they were put on the street for our local airport. If they are armed, I want to be armed.

      • The fact that they have play badges is bad enough. Real cops (many of whom believe that everyone should be able to arm and defend themselves for when the police aren’t around) shudder to think of the flunkies at TSA being armed. I’d rather see the janitors with guns, they have more sense…

  7. I’d rather have random hobos roaming the airport with grenade launchers than see the TSA armed.

    If anything, those dickweeds need to have their power rescinded, not be given more.

  9. i got excited….

    reading along, yes, yes, this works for me, roger that, shit. nevermind. just another idiot

  10. I liked it better when they were called Stewardesses and they were all young and hot, AND if you flew frequently you actually had a chance to maybe find yourself waking up next to one……………

    Now they just seem to be either afraid of their own shadow, old crones or are on some kind of power trip where getting you to pay attention to the pre-flight safety briefing is tantamount to the importance of the D-Day invasion and failure to comply will result in immediate detainment and subsequent execution by some mid-level DHS/TSA turd……………

    • I hate when they get all pissy about the safety lecture. “Why aren’t you paying attention?” Gee, I don’t know.. Oh wait, because I’ve already heard it 5 times a week for the last ten years?

  11. I don’t really care if the TSA is armed. They have the same constitutional rights that I have. But I’m denied my rights under that constitution because it’s an airport. If I’m not allowed a gun there, nobody,regardless of governmental status, should have a gun there.

    • Don’t care? Don’t forget that you would get the pleasure of paying for their armament. They are the government. In their capacity as individuals, they have the same rights as us. In their capacity as employees of the blob, they are supposed to have only the powers we’ve delegated to them. That mathematically means less powers than we have as individuals.

      . . . supposed to . . .

    • You forget that they actually are given certain powers by the DHS. They currently don’t have arrest powers. Do you really want them to have the “power” to shoot your ass because you acted indignant to them based on their opinion? This is the same DHS that takes away OUR rights protected by the constitution.

    • Once they take government employment they lose Constitutional rights.

      “I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.”
      — George Mason

      Of course now, we have many public officials, so denying them all the rights of honest citizens is the correct course of action.

  12. Who is this silly buffoon and why should I give a squirrel’s nut what she says…? Uh, no, no arming the TSA please you half-wit. I don’t like being groped at the airport, nor do I want to be groped at gunpoint, thank you.

      • But she agrees for a different reason. Most of us think that TSA agents are not competent enough to be carrying a firearm, She thinks NONE of us competent to carry. She is just another Liberal projecting her own inadequacies onto every else.

  13. One question: If law-abiding passengers were allowed to carry on airlines, would 9/11 ever have happened?

    I rest my case.

      • Or a gun to a ‘maybe’ gun fight. Box cutters were legal on planes at the time. There is no reason to believe they wouldn’t have had a firearm if those were legal on planes too.

        I say ‘maybe’ gunfight because there is no guarantee a good guy with a gun would have been on board.

        • Given the security protocol then and now, you can guarantee that no good guy with a gun will be on the plan with exception of the TSA’s air marshal. Maybe.

          BTW, the box cutters were NOT legal at the time. They had smuggled them onto the plane and had taped them in place.

        • @Blue, prior to 9/11, box cutters were not prohibited by federal laws but were against airline policy.

          I always carried a folding knife in my carry-on or pocket when I traveled, and the only time that I was stopped is when I brought a 3.5 inch folder with a pistol-type grip. Had it been a straight grip, I would have been permitted to bring it on the plane since knives under 4 inches were legal to transport at that time.

  14. It’s going to happen, it’s been in the works for about 5 years, along with the nifty new uniform
    You don’t think that Private Armies build themselves go you?

    • The TSA would not be a private army, it would be a government (non consensual) army like any other.

  15. Is there a single person who says both “arm teachers” and “arm TSA agents”?

    I think if you actually examine most school gun proposals they are something like this: Allow local school districts, or teachers themselves, to determine if a weapon can safely be borne in the classroom.

    As for TSA agents, my slice of the 2A movement (that which gets here via interest in Liberty more than guns), I’m not in favor of arming them.

  16. I agree with her. No reason for TSA officials to be armed or the majority of the occupations she mentions. At least not through their employment. Anyone has a right to carry as a individual and everyone should exercise that right but her going off on TSA people, people she obviously worked with and around and has a good impression of overall, most probably shouldn’t be armed much like many police officers shouldn’t be armed because they have power and control issues. I think Robert posted a bad example of a true anti-gun rant, this to me is more a woman giving her opinion of how dysfunctional and irresponsible TSA is overall and why would anyone wish to have this group of people armed. I think her preamble on the other occupations is just a half truth in that arming nobody is much like arming everybody, it’s a bad idea.
    I support teachers carrying firearms in class, those that are trained and chose to do so. I do not support low trained security guards or uniformed police as this gives the impression and feel of a prison and not a school. The same IMO applies to TSA people, I don’t want the airport to resemble fricking Israel airports with armed wannabe rambos and rambets. The hypocrisy is just as many pro-gun people hold their hands to their ears when acceptable truths are told just as the anti-gun people do.
    If you think the burger flipper behind the counter, the candy stripper in the hospital, the ticket ripper at the theater, the hostess at the restaurant, the tsa jackas* at the scanner, if you think all these people should be armed well then I find you crazy. It’s simple, as a INDIVIDUAL you have the right to chose to be armed anywhere you are, I agree with this. Not some agency or government telling us, hey these people are going to be armed and you are not going to be. See the deal? If you can’t then too bad for you.

    • Agreed. I don’t support “arming” anyone, just stop disarming citizens and you’ll have a lot less of these problems. Why should I pay for the guns and ammo for some incompetent neanderthals to carry when I already have my own and trust myself to use it properly above anyone else?

  17. Bad assumptions (we want armed TSA agents?!) and implications aside, I don’t know if there’s anything completely false about most of her statements.

    However – “Terrorism is a real concern for airlines, but … we also have to worry just as much about angry neighbors with guns”

    I worry more about angry neighbors than “terrorism” (whatever that means). That’s why I own guns. 🙂

  18. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, it seems.

    Last time I went to the range, a Parole officer was training with a fellow plainclothes LEO. She couldn’t hit a B27 at 7 yards, and when I packed up the closest she got to the X was the 7 ring.

    Given most sworn cops are closer to THAT “standard” than Travis Haley’s level, arming TSA would be tantamount to giving guns to lab monkeys. What we should do is shutter TSA , dispense with the illusion of airport security ( want to commit a crime at an airport? Get a job there…..) and remove the restrictions on concealed carry in airport “safe zones”.From small, trained details of expert cops like Jim Cirillo’s old Stakeout Squad to provide advanced security , and call it good.

  19. Remember the flight attendants were the group that had an emotional breakdown at TSA’s announcement that tiny knives were going to be allowed on the plane because finding them at screening is a waste of time. Still no 1″ folding swiss army knifes – because the attendants would be too terrified to work in those conditions.

    • Goddamn that pissed me off!

      If any thing, we should be *issueing* knives and batons to all passengers.

      Any individual on the plane starts acting hinkey, BONK! Out go the lights.

  20. No don’t arm the TSA they are just another appendage of the GOVERNMENT that wants to DISARM US and this is just another way to get more power into the hands of the government minions. Also do WE really believe that the same people who suffer from such lack of common sense as to frisk a wheel chair bound senior, or demand a person with a colostomy bag to show and tell should be as well armed as the police or deity forbid the DHS. You know that if they get the ok that they will get just as well armed as the DHS has.

    • Back off Diggler! I call dibs!
      Very classy looking girl. Everybody makes mistakes, and a lot of them happen with CNN. With a smile like that, she’s worth saving.

      • If the grabbers hired a few more spokeswomen like her, I would be in serious trouble. Cute redheads are a major weakpoint.

        • agreed. I once went out of my way many years ago to hook up with a chick b/c she was a redhead. had to find out if the curtains matched the carpet. I was not disappointed. . . . .

  24. The TSA issue aside, it sounds like she needs to learn how to be a better neighbor if she is that worried about their anger being directed at her through violence. Either that, or she should get a gun of her own rather than expecting the taxpayer to be responsible for her personal safety.

    One thing is for sure, when her neighbor gets after her with a high capacity assault garden-hose in retaliation for her blowing all of her leaves into his yard, the police are not going to be there in time to protect her.

  25. my neighbors are not angry. in fact, my neighbors suggested a sign, “we stick together and are protected by the NRA.” (My concern would be it attracts more thieves than it wards off, this is maryland)

    If she has angry neighbors shooting each other, she probably lives in one of those section 8 apartment complexes. I’d move.

  27. I think that the statements about “arming the TSA” or “NOT arming the TSA” are overly broad. As with teachers.

    Not all people should have a gun. Period. Some fail to have the common sense, physical attributes, or the mental fortitude to pull the trigger when needed.

    But that does not mean that some specially trained agents, teachers, pilots, etc should not be allowed to bear arms. If within a class of employee there are those charged with duties that necesitate a gun….then so be it. But to claim ALL TSA are too stupid is equal to her argument that ALL gun-owners are dangerous. Don’t fall into the same trap. Stay sharp fellas!

    • Thankyou sir. Not everyone who works for TSA is an imbecile. Just as not all gun owners are inbred rednecks with tiny closed minds.

  28. Eh, I think the TSA should have the level of arms we can trust to people of their caliber.

    I suggest unloaded single shot NERF guns.

  29. I don’t know that i would trust flight attendants or TSA agents to properly handle a firearm and to properly handle a situation. Most police officers carry guns because they are a bit more educated in criminal justice and well trained in procedure of how to handle a situation. Even then, they still make plenty of mistakes where someone ends up dead accidentally. There is just a lot more involved when policing vs self defense. (Picture a scenario of you bringing your gun legally to baggage check, they pull out their gun and shoot you)

    TSA agents aren’t well educated, in fact most barely graduated high school by the looks of it. Same goes for flight attendants. So no, i wouldn’t trust them to do police work at an airport.

    However for self defense, it’s an easy question of how to handle a situation. If you think you are really going to die, just shoot. It’s that simple.

  30. So glad that whoever did that interview sought out a true expert in anti-terrorism technique – a flight attendant.

  31. So some former sky waitress is uncomfortable with other people exercising their 2A rights? Well. Maybe I’m uncomfortable with her exercising her 1A rights? After all, who needs to hear her double barrel blast of willful ignorance and moral superiority?

    Nevertheless, free speech, like keeping and bearing arms, is a fundamental right. As such, it is not one bit dependant upon what someone else, including me, does or does not need. Still, insofar as the Second Amendment exists to serve as a persistent and persuasive reminder of the First Amendment, I find her in need of more than mere reminder that her fundamental rights are mutually inclusive and that it hurts the cause of liberty overall to deny and disparage particular fundamental rights.

    • Yea, they should limit political comments to people with a college education. Seriously, what does an airplane waitress know anyways???? Leave it to the professionals. 🙂

      (sarcasm)

  32. She specializes in turning what she knows into fiction writing. It all makes sense now.

    “Love me anyway” that’s the final nail in the coffin.

  33. I completely agree with her comment… half of it anyways.

    I don’t want the government arming anyone other then the military and actual police. The TSA is not either of those. I also want the government to get the hell out of the business of deciding who else can and can’t be armed (with certain obvious exceptions, i.e. felons). After that though I’m torn on what the gov should do. On one hand if I want them to leave the whole “to be armed or not” decision up to the individual then that should apply to TSA agents on the job.

    On the other hand… have you seen the TSA agents on the job. I don’t think I’d trust any of them with a dart gun, let alone a real one. So that leads me to the government telling them they can’t bring their arms to work. But that goes against my feeling of the government telling people what to do. Oy, it’s a vicious thought cycle…

    • On the “obvious exceptions” bit, let’s walk that dog back. We’re talking about withdrawal of fundamental rights here. In a world where little is as scarce as common sense, pardon me for not being immediately convinced that such exceptions are obvious. After all, a felony is a felony legally, but not in actuality.

      A given act may rate a felony in one state, but only a misdemeanor in another. Yet, that felony conviction bars firearms possession in all states, not just in the original conviction state. As unfair as tat may seemm it’s even more so in the case of actions that are felonies in one place, but hobbies in another. Transport a standard capacity G17 plinking magazine through DC’s airport, even in your checked luggage, and you could wind up a felon.

      We hear “felon” and think not only serious criminal, but violent, too. Yet, many nonviolent crimes are felonies and sometimes it’s merely the dollar amount at issue that defines the felony threshold. I’m not sure we should fashion a violence-in-mind penalty, especially one denying a fundamental right, for nonviolent felons at all, let alone those whose crimes are arbitrarily defined and inconsistently enforced.

  34. I’m kinda split on this. I’ll put aside the argument of “Do we even really need the TSA” for a moment.

    So they’re the Transportation SECURITY Authority, right? How are they supposed to enforce any kind of security without a weapon? Doesn’t that basically make them rent-a-cops? Actually worse than rent-a-cops, because most rent-a-cops I see have guns.

    On the other hand, do I really want another group of armed government agents with an excuse to harass me at any time?

  35. There’s definitely a false straw-man argument there. I don’t hear anyone saying that all those other people she lists should be armed, what we’re saying is they should not be denied the opportunity to be armed.

    Once that’s out of the way, I have much less problem with all her other examples being armed as private citizens than I have with the TSA being armed, because none of her other examples are representatives of the state. They’re just private citizens.

    • “I don’t hear anyone saying that all those other people she lists should be armed, what we’re saying is they should not be denied the opportunity to be armed”

      Denied the RIGHT TO BE ARMED
      (fixed it for you)

      • You knew where I was going, but correction acknowledged. I was thinking along the lines of “opportunity to exercise the right to be armed,” if that makes sense. Either way, you’re right.

  36. Why should TSA agents be armed? There are armed cops all over every terminal that I’ve ever been inside, so TSA gropers are among the most protected non-politicians in the US.

    If such well protected people need guns, than what about the rest of us who can’t expect Officer Friendly and a dozen of his well-armed pals to appear in ten seconds?

  37. “…we also have to worry just as much about angry neighbors with guns.”

    Very true. So…not much to worry about, then.

    it may actually make sense to arm the people who are, after all, manning security checkpoints. And it also makes sense for the rest of us, who are, after all, responsible for our own personal security in the event of either terrorism or garden-variety thuggery, to also be armed.

    Let’s all do it together.

  39. I’d ask, “what are these ‘angry neighbors’ angry about?”

    I’ve found that the best defense is to not run around and piss people off.

  40. I know I’m in the minority on this one, but I actually know a TSO, so my perspective may be different. I don’t support arming the TSA as a whole, just like teachers shouldn’t be forced to be armed at school. However, if a TSO is able to provide their own gun and meet whatever standard of training, why not?

    Look at it this way. The mandate of the TSA is to “stop bad people from bringing bombs onto mass transit vehicles”, but they have no means of actually accomplishing that. They have to contact the police (people with guns) to come over and take care of any kind of real situation. While there are indeed police stationed at most airports, in my experience, the officers that get that assignment are the ones with the most seniority and the least desire to be productive.

    If guns are too much of an active defense, why not something totally passive like allowing them to wear personally owned ballistic vests under their uniforms? Turns out that’s verboten as well, since vests are “too much like a back brace” which is prohibited by TSA regs. Am I the only one that thinks that’s a crock?

    • I work for TSA, and I am wearing hard plates at work and I’m not the only one. Thankyou by the way for not turning it into an anti TSA rant.

  41. I’ve never seen so much hypocrisy outside of congress! Guns for us but not for you. I really expected more from a crowd of people so enamored of freedom. You have an example of irresponsible civillian gun ownership every other day, and shout “but thats not me, that was some dumba$$.” Now you apply the same level of broad stroke accusation and insult that you condemn when it doesnt suit you. I work for TSA. I will be the first one to admit that there are a LOT of idiots, who either dont know the job or the proper procedures, and should not be armed, but that doesnt make me an idiot by association. I am not a huge proponent of arming TSA in whole or in part, but the same rule applies when it comes to calling 911. Most checkpoints dont have a constant LEO presence. When we need them we have to call for them the same as everyone else. That has changed since Friday, but for how long. (Rant cut short due to time constraints)

  42. While I don’t agree with her phrasing, I do agree at arming TSA isn’t an answer. That’s just because of who and what TSA is.

    However, if a TSA employee wishes to carry, they sholud be permitted to do so.

  43. …..until your armed neighbor comes to you aid during a home invasion. Don’t fear your neighbor, fear the criminals.

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