“This ISIS stuff is seeing quite a few people changing their opinions.. one of my mates told me today- he’s coming around on the gun issue. He’s 68 years old, been against guns his whole life- now he’s turning around because of these savages.” – J. Coughran in With ISIS arrests, Australians wishing they had guns [at wnd.com]
News flash, there are vicious people in this world.
Better late than never, I guess.
Way to little , way too late.
that ship has sailed there.
Far from it. Oz isn’t the US, it’s one of the rest-of-world countries where the government can still change direction when the people decide the prior direction was wrong. If the public demands it, the ban will come down (and maybe my S&W stock will go back up…)
I don’t believe they will, there will be far to few voices calling for the right to own firearms for their own defense.
I agree with you. Once the majority decides that their individual lives are not worth protecting because it violates an intangible greater good of the greater society the majority has committed a form of suicide by ceding the ability to fight armed aggression. A coward dies 1000 deaths. A fighter dies but once.
HA! Good laugh I got from that one, I do a fair amount of work with Aussies, they *might* be able to change but if my interactions with them are an indicator they sure has hell don’t want to. They love them some police/nanny state they have over there.
What about your shoulder thing? Will it go back up?
Aussies are quite content if their trouser thing goes up.
Most guys are quite content if their trouser thing goes up…
Their gov’t won’t be willing to surrender that kind of power until a whole BUNCH of Aussies get their heads wacked off on YouTube by the Islamics. Governments HATE to give up power once they have seized it. It will take a massive election chucking-out of the current ruling class, and that won’t happen until the urban sheep realize they are helpless prey.
Just like a definite “End of the World” threat would produce a flood of people who suddenly “find God”…easy to be indifferent, cavalier and even opposed to something until you perceive a direct threat to yourself…suddenly it’s not paranoia any longer, but “common sense”. Doubt these low mentality types can ever see the irony in that, nor how completely idiotic it reveals them to be. Hah! HAW!
Eh.
People are usually far more set in their belief systems than you seem to be giving them credit for.
A lot of people think that. You probably think you are the exception (special reasoning, we all do it). You think you’d hold on to your ____ even if ____.
However, many people will stick to what they believe, even in the face of extreme situations, because the situation scares them, they will simply double down on the belief.
I heard the term “no atheist in a fox hole” thrown around for years… oddly enough I spent a little time in something you could call a fox hole – for good reason – and I still didn’t start praying to anyone.
I don’t see the contrast. His point is exactly your point: that these people aren’t genuine converts, that they are still at their core just cowardly, government-hugging subjects.
Thank-you! That is exactly what I intended readers to infer from my comment, Johnathan – Huston.
@ Richard in KY I would regard you as “the exception”, not, as you suggest “the rule”…but it would take dire circumstances to prove which one of us is correct, and I will gladly remain ignorant of that outcome, rather than endure what it would take to demonstrate which point of view is correct. Feel free to believe what you wish and I shall do the same.
From the comments you can see how hard of a fight this is. There is a fanatical belief that the gun grab eliminated crime once and for all. To an Australian mom, the idea of having guns in the home is like keeping a dingo around your baby as a pet. Never mind that the easiest way to stop a dingo from eating babies is to shoot it.
That’s what caused me to start carrying, some “savage” tryed mugging me.
Other than a lifelong interest in firearms and having handled/shot them a lot, that’s what tipped me over into carrying was a close call with a assailant. I supported the right to carry, but didn’t until that day.
Always supported the right to self-defense, even when I had no interest in owning a firearm. 🙂
All that said, have you all seen the ISIS videos? These guys drive around shooting other cars in motion with AK-47s. CCing ain’t gonna save you from that.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather be found dead with a weapon on my body than as a lamb to the slaughter but you get my point.
It’s always a good thing to take personal responsibility for our lives and safety, but if we have to ever go it alone, we’re screwed.
Except that ISIS does not and cannot do drive-by shootings here.
The only places that even have drive-by shootings to begin with are large cities with the strict gun control ordinances, and eve then, the vat majority still only happen in states with the strictest gun control control laws.
It’s not drive-by shootings we would have to worry about. Think Mumbai-style raids in a mall, like the one in Nairobi, Kenya — and the armed ex-Royal Marine who rescued over 100 people.
You should probably know what you’re talking about before stating things as facts.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5b0_1402690909
4:35 is where the drive by attacks on other vehicles start.
Sure, they’d get caught in the US, but imagining anyone /can’t/ do something like this here is silly.
+1000. Everybody on this site need to watch this video.
Looked at the live link vid and two thoughts occurred to me: Those people are savages and if I ever see someone with a rifle sticking out a car window I will not reach for my gun but will use the several thousand pound vehicle I am operating. Swerve into the side of them or get in front and nail the breaks hard letting the trailer hitch on the back eat their front end then hit the gas and stay low. That may have happened many times but the bad guys are certainly not going to up load their failures to make themselves look bad.
By the way the Aussies stayed subjects for too long and they are now lost to PC stupidity…..It will take many real murders by Islamic fundamentalist wackos before even a few start to wake up.
I am with TheBear on this one. It would be a trivial matter for two or more criminals/terrorists to steal a license plate, slap it on their car, and go on a shooting spree. For that matter they could steal the car (after executing the unsuspecting driver of course) and use that car to go on a shooting spree. Either way, no one will ever catch them if they promptly ditch the stolen car or change their license plate.
It’s not drive-by shootings we would have to worry about. Think Mumbai-style raids in a mall, like the one in Nairobi, Kenya — and the armed ex-Royal Marine who rescued over 100 people.
I still think something like this is going to happen at Mall of America with its large number of African Muslim immigrants. It also did not surprise me that volunteer jihadists were from Minneapolis.
The possibility of this scares the shit out of me.
First – the act itself would be horrible, but the American response to terror has been less than stellar.
Do we want TSA screening people for knives before going to the mall? It just might happen. :/
It’s kind of important to keep in mind that unlike our homegrown “drive-by shooters” who intend to make their attacks and get away, these ISIS people actually don’t intend to get away. They intend to die (or aren’t concerned about it) because they believe to die “killing Infidels” (everyone who isn’t in their sect of Islam) perpetrating an act of Jihad is an instant, guaranteed passport to one of the highest levels of Muslim Paradise.
So, they approach murdering Infidels from a perspective of “everything to gain” as opposed to “everything to lose”. Makes them extra dangerous. ISIS has just released a new video exhorting their adherents to kill Westerners without mercy. as many as possible, wherever possible and by any means possible. It’s coming and do not doubt it.
As I have said before, I am not as concerned about what they will do to us, but about what they will force us to become to deal with them.
“ISIS has just released a new video exhorting their adherents to kill Westerners without mercy. as many as possible, wherever possible and by any means possible. It’s coming and do not doubt it.”
As Bernie Mac put it, “I ain’t scared of ya.”
This makes everyone a target of “equal opportunity”. They are not saying “go after political leaders, community leaders. spiritual leaders, Jews, homeless, Whites, Blacks, intellectuals, Hispanics, school kids, Asians, other Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, you name it”…they are saying anyone, anytime, anywhere who is NOT one of them. We are all truly equal targets in their eyes.
I am not exhorting anyone to be “scared”, whatever, because being scared will do you no damned good at all. I would exhort everyone to be “situationally aware” all the time everywhere you are. We have no idea how this is going to play out and until we get a feel for it (if we ever do), only your vigilance may save your life (being well armed would be a plus, too). I am sure your are vigilant, but I urge you not to project a sense of false bravado that others may pick-up on. This will get deathly (literally) serious sooner than we think.
I am not scared, but I hate the idea of being killed by ambush and cowardly treachery, which is what ISIS intends to perpetrate upon us because that’s how they believe they will glorify their God.
Nevertheless, a Glock 23 is better defense against a drive by than a cell phone. Heck, a handgun is probably a better weapon than even an iPhone 6 Plus.
Watch the video above.
The G23 ain’t gonna do shit either. Honestly the only defense you’d have against a drive by at close range vs. AKs is an insanely up armored vehicle – which are heavy and expensive.
My point is that our infrastructure and community helps prevent assholes like ISIS from existing in the US. If you take all that away… as one person or even a group of people, you’re screwed.
We often think of psychos or thieves as being “bad guys”. Real bad guys don’t hold people up or play with their victims. They just kill you while you’re looking the other direction or driving a car.
Or better attention to what is going on around you…
Most people driving today put themselves on “autopilot” while they talk on cell phones or text, etc.
A few like myself actually track every vehicle entering and exiting their “bubble” to be prepared for sudden stupidity on the part of other drivers. It would not take much to extend this to watching for gun barrels through rolled-down windows on the car that is passing you. From there it’s just brake hard and prepare to defend yourself.
Not saying this would be 100% effective, but it is better than going unarmed and unaware.
I don’t have a defeatist attitude, nor an “ain’t gonna do shit” attitude. The 23 isn’t perfect, nor the 27 or the
340 PD. I fully realize that a full auto AK is superior to a semi-auto handgun. Besides, the car has to stop sometime. They always do.
I saw one of the videos which talked about 15 arrests by 800 police officers. If there’s anything else I missed it.
@ Accur.
The video link is http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5b0_1402690909
The drive bys start at 4:35 or so.
Now, remember I said, “Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather be found dead with a weapon on my body than as a lamb to the slaughter but you get my point.” in an earlier post.
All that said, I used to shoot at abandoned vehicles with my squad for fun in the desert while we were deployed to Afghanistan. I’ve also seen videos (like the one linked) and have seen first hand what a rifle does to a moving vehicle. Whether you’re shooting 30.06, 7.62, 5.56, 5.45, whatever, a car barely slows a bullet down unless you hit the engine block or the chassis.
If someone is within about 100 meters of you with a rifle and wants to punch your ticket, there’s really not much you can do unless your vehicle is armored.
Real world physics are utterly unforgiving to the person who is on the receiving end of an ambush in a firefight. It’s why military doctrine to react to ambush is to charge in the direction of the attack and hope for the best.
I absolutely, positively could not watch that liveleak video. However, I could watch this one:
http://www.funker530.com/brutal-graphic-video-released-by-isis/
As scary as it is, there were opportunities for the victims to return fire. And this may sound arrogant, but I’m a better and more aware driver than most people that you know. I’m aware what gunfire does to vehicle because I’ve seen and helped investigate freeway shootings. I’ve also been shot at whilst on the freeway. I don’t sit down in a car seat and become a sheep. A gun barrel hanging out the window of a car or truck is gonna make me the fastest driver on the freeway unless there is a Ferrari nearby. My work car is armored and my off duty car (Infiniti G37S) is faster and more agile than a pickup truck. I’m also aware of some pretty unusual access and egress points in a car due to spending more than a decade fighting my way through traffic to get to various emergencies.
I don’t allow drivers to be next to me or “camp out” in my blind spot unless I’m stuck in stationary traffic. Not much to do there but stand your ground, but there isn’t much place for the get away driver to go, either, and there are lots of witness with cell phones who call 911 in the good ‘ol US.
So of course ISIS could come here and murder some of us, myself included, but I think they’ll find the armed and aware TTAG crowd to be a poor choice of targets. If terror is the goal, than getting a few of their murderous a$$holes shot by CCW carriers would put a serious damper on their whole schtick. And I don’t ever intend on being an easy target. I doubt I’m alone in that sentiment. Heck, as DG has said, it might even wake up some of the fence sitters who could suddenly realize that police can’t protect them.
Being armed might not save the first guy they shoot at, or the second, but what about the next building? An entire block of armed and awake citizens? Then who would need the armored car?
I hear you guys.
I never said we should not be armed and it’s futile. I just said the reality is that if we are by ourselves and terrorists or people who act like them are running around, we’ll all be in a bad place.
Even vanilla 45acp will go through car doors and windows. A vehicle doesn’t automatically confer magical bullet stopping abilities unless there’s an engine block between you and said bullet. Or if you like real world examples:
The suspect then allegedly “grabbed” the woman, threw her to the ground, and climbed into the driver’s seat. After witnessing the incident, a female neighbor reportedly came running and opened the passenger door, trying to reach into the car to stop the suspect. The suspect gave the vehicle gas, knocking the woman to the ground and “injuring her head.”
At that point a male neighbor came running out with his gun and, police said, “fired several times at the carjacker,” hitting him an unreported number of times. The suspect was able to drive “several blocks before crashing into a wall and tree.” He died upon reaching the hospital.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/08/17/Carjacker-Shot-Killed-After-Throwing-Female-Driver-To-The-Ground
What’s the quote? “He who is willing to sacrifice freedom for a momentary security deserves neither freedom nor security”. Yep that pretty much sums up my feeling about our brothers in Oz. That’s why our fight is so important sorry they have to learn their lesson this way.
I have an Aussie friend at work and he honestly said to me in a debate about armed self defense “I think if someone kicks my door in at 2am I’ll ask them what the f$&* they are doing and tell then to leave, what right do you have to shoot them?”
So yeah, wish the Aussies all the best /sarc*
I agree with your quote, and your opinion on the Aussie coworker, but keep in mind that there are plenty of them that wish the decision hadn’t been made and don’t agree with it.
Hell, a lot of them disbelieve the official story on the Port Arthur massacre.
“What’s the quote? “He who is willing to sacrifice freedom for a momentary security deserves neither freedom nor security”. Yep that pretty much sums up my feeling about our brothers in Oz. That’s why our fight is so important sorry they have to learn their lesson this way.”
+1. I have no wish to live as a subject, literally or figuratively.
If they can change their laws, I’d be willing to assist in a rifle and pistol drive for our Aussie friends!
They have no one but themselves to blame for the helplessness they feel right now.
Aquire guns legally? Because it is so hard to smuggle/make guns yourself (/sarc). And it is not like you are going to call police if ISIS comes at your door.
The Aussies have paid a high price for this decision already and the half has not yet been written. They will eventually rue the day they gave up their arms and trusted in the arm of law enforcement to protect them.
All the Aussies I know wish the decision had no been made and are looking for the chance to reverse it, but they are looking for a leader to lead the way, in stead of becoming that corporate leader themselves.
“Oh crap, my rights were willingly taken from me, and now, I want them back.”
Yeah, let me know how that works out for you.
With shall issue CC, it’s now 45 (or so) out of 50 when it was a few out of 50 in the 80’s.
Still working on the last few.
Denial of lawful self protection by governments is the ultimate betrayal of its citizens.
This ISIS thing is one which we need to use to focus the mind of the sheeple. In the US we have gangs and drug cartels coming over the Mexican boarder. Is it so far fetched an idea for an American to imagine lone-wolf or small bands of ISIS terrorists added to the list? Is it so far fetched for the Aussies?
A block might be little-better than nothing; unless it’s a lone-wolf attack. Or, a dozen CCs against two or three terrorists.
The issue here is to turn the tide of thinking to reliance on the sheep-dog to self-reliance and reliance on one’s neighbors. A flood of terrorists on the beaches wouldn’t last long against American civilians’ AR-15s. We are well positioned to deal with the zombie apocalypse. Our problem is dealing with our politicians.
The Aussies (and, for that matter, the law-abiding Mexicans) are facing the Islamic terrorists, the devoutly Catholic drug cartels and the atheist politicians in their governments.
There is a lesson here. Will we teach it to our fellow Americans?
It’s already happening on the Texas border. The Texas National Guard is patrolling the border and Armed militia groups are showing up. This weekend an anti-illegal immigration protest aimed at blocking ports-of-entry was called off because of threats of “carnage” from Mexican drug cartels. You can feel the tension building. Life on the border has just gotten very dangerous. Who needs ISIS?
No need to worry about ISIS anymore, Dennis Rodman is heading over there to teach them the error of their ways.
68, huh? So basically he’s had his entire life to bear witness to the fruit of Mohammad’s gift to humanity, and now, at the end decides to acknowledge reality?
Sounds like a ‘Come to Jesus’ story, if I ever heard one.
He thinks he’s cramming for the final.
This ISIS situation is just one of many good reasons for good people to be armed. I am glad to hear that some people are coming around.
ISIS is about to cause a whole lot of kumbayah liberals to re-evaluate a lot of things, including, but not limited to:
– gun control
– multiculturalism
– modern feminism in western democracies (or rather, the trivial twaddle that modern feminists claim as important)
– open borders
– rampant immigration from the middle east
– the whole trope that “Islam is a religion of peace”
If the Jews of Mecca had grown a pair and dealt with Muhammed forcefully way back when, we wouldn’t be having to deal with this nonsense today. The lesson from history is quite clear on how civilized people need to deal with the Islamic threat.
All very true, but many of the sheep will persist in their liberal ideas until the end.
Nobody ever wishes they didn’t have a gun.
I think your comment needs a (When shit gets real) ahead of it 🙂
They want a gun, just no one else can have a gun.
Wait until ISIS comes here, kidnaps someone, and does a beheading. Folk gonna wish they had a weapon.
The evidence from the UK is that they won’t kidnap anyone. They’ll just behead someone on the street or in their own yard, in broad daylight.
The end result is the same. Harder to behead someone with a sword when you’re taking fire. I hope they pick an armed target and meet and untimely demise. Of course a gentle city dweller from San Francisco or a similar liberal progressive mecca probably would be incapable of putting up a fight.
I had a similar thought although I don’t know how savvy the terrorists are. But if I had their mission, I would choose either San Francisco or New York City. I cannot think of any other locations where the people on the streets are more likely to be unarmed. And for reasons that I cannot fully articulate, I would probably choose San Francisco over New York City.
It’s already happened. A home-grown lone-wolf jihadi killed two people – I believe in Washington State – then came to NJ to shoot his third victim in West Orange, Essex County, about 20 miles from Manhattan. A 19 year old college student picked at random. The MSM characterized it as a “targeted hit” leaving the impression that the victim maybe had it coming; e.g., maybe an aged account receivable with his dealer. Unfortunately, for the MSM, the perpetrator confessed to the police his real motivation in no uncertain terms.
Perhaps someone could get on the jihadi web-sites and point out the Won’t-Issue jurisdictions. In the interest of public safety, we don’t want any CCs shooting back and possibly missing their targets putting innocent civilians in the cross-fire. It’s best to let the authorities investigate, identify and capture the perpetrators.
New York cop would probably do a pat down? SF cop might have flowers in its hair?
The fearful thing is that they will do it, just to prove that they can.
If ISIS did something that involved firearms, it is a 100% gold-plated guarantee the local media services and politicians would demand something to be done, which will ONLY impact the Law-Abiding-Firearm-Owners.
Just like the ammunition control bill which was supposed to stop criminals from buying ammunition at gun shops, but only ended up with providing information to criminals on who has what firearms because the buyer’s name and address are now recorded by the store.
I agree. Islam would be the religion of peace and the AR-15 would be the evil weapon which is deemed to be demon possessed.
Whatever happened to the Crocodile Dundee types? Australia is a huge country with atiny population. Similar to Canada( in too many ways). It seems they both gave their n##s away…and once you lose “em they are hard to get back.
I love people like this. Never afraid to talk about controlling guns till something happens to them personally and suddenly their pro-gun. Hypocrite. But ,anyway, welcome to the club.
Fear tends to do that to people. It’s worth remembering that most affluent people in the western societies like OZ and here have never really been seriously threatened by anybody. I’ve met many people who honestly cannot imagine ever even needing a firearm, let along imagining that something as absolutely terrifying as ISIS might actually come after them. Of course they’re naive in the extreme, just as the guy mentioned in the article is. It’s only when The Seriously Bad Thing is coming down your street or into your house than reality starts to set in. People who think this way enjoy the luxury of never having those sorts of things happen to them. Until they do.
“There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen” – Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982)
I remember this POINT OF LAW when fools prattle
on about “getting rid of guns”. Grow a pair or….move
to Australia. I will be keeping my Glock 21 thank you
very much…..
Just wait until ISIS is all over the US. Liberals don’t like to talk about it but they are actually PRAYING they stop with Iraq. That’s not going to happen.
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