“Fuck you, people who say, ‘guns don’t kill people, people kill people.’ Sorry, assholes, this isn’t the time for semantics. Guns are the tools that enable people who kill people to kill lots and lots of people with ease. And they’re fucking efficient. According to Mother Jones, which has done excellent research on this topic, there’s a clear relationship between the rise in civilian firearms and the rise in mass shootings; they counted two per year on average since 1982, and 24 of the 61 cases they looked at occurred after 2006. This year alone there have been six mass shootings with 110 people injured and killed, a record number. In 1995 there were about 200 million guns in the hands of average Joes and Joannes. Today, there are around 300 million. That’s a 50 percent jump. If you don’t think that guns have anything to do with the rise in mass shootings, you’re a fucking idiot.” – Katie J. M. Baker (via jezebel.com)
….yet the fbi crime statistics show violent crimes overall dropping.
(And kudos to TTAG for taking a more nuanced view of that than most pro-2A sites. As RF notes, corrolation does not equal causation.)
“there’s a clear relationship between the rise in civilian firearms and the rise in mass shootings”
This is a correlation, not a relationship; as we all know, correlation is not causation. Hence, the FBI’s downward trending stats. Whatever’s going on, its something other than the number of guns in private hands.
First Hitler disarmed the Jews
Then he loaded them on train cars
To Katie Baker:
Screw you right back, asshat!
+100.
Yup.
Yet, between 1995-2010, the total number of murders has dropped by almost 7000 (according to current available FBI statistics), and the population has increased by over 40 million?
And yet we believe what government officials are telling us??? They will tell us what they want us to believe
Brace yourselves for more of this crap. Liberals and gun-grabbers lost no time trying to exploit this tragedy. Expect more hysteria, less logic, and a good bit of fascist rhetoric.
You know Paul, that’s a tired line, the dancing in the blood nonsense and the exploiting tragedies. It’s a good tactic though. When in the wrong, instead of going on the defensive, attack.
The fact it, whatever gun violence there is in the US can be directly blamed on you gun-rights activists. You, and your momma, the NRA, are responsible for it.
How how can this be blamed on us? This is the direct result of mental instability and parental apathy towards a “child’s” (he was 20) mental health. There was no illegal gun here, just an atrocious illegal act.
And all cases of drunk driving can be blamed on grape growers and grain growers. all cases of obesity can be blamed on fast food companies. Yes, let’s blame the objects from now on, not the people for their actions… I call for a ban on bacon because I’m fat and heading for a heart attack!
Those are absurd comparisons. The fact is you guys work very hard to keep gun restrictions at a minimum. To whatever degree you’re successful, you have to own the fact that more good guys have guns as a result and more unfit and irresponsible ones do too. You oppose the restrictions that would change that, not because you think they won’t work, but because you think the cure is worse than the disease. This is where we disagree.
“You oppose the restrictions that would change that, not because you think they won’t work, but because you think the cure is worse than the disease. This is where we disagree.”
the advantages of private firearms ownership outweigh the disadvantages. this is where we disagree.
No, just, no. I’m currently laying in a hospital bed half a country away from Newtown CT. I wasn’t there, and neither were you or anyone else on this blog; none of us are responsible for one man’s actions. We didn’t “supply” this nut bag with anything, he stole the guns from his mom. Stop with the pathetic liberal sham that is the “guilty by association” card. That’s akin to saying I’m responsible for slavery because slave owners and I share the same skin color. It’s ludicrous
According to MikeB and his redneck logic rape victims are responsible for getting raped too.
I pray this is an attempt at satire. Although your track record here is rather consistent.
Sad. So sad. Not just the tragedy, Mike#’s, but your pathetic, rabidly illogical response. You grew up expecting a perfect world, eh? And you’re willing to throw logic under the bus because it makes you feel good to be so self-righteous. Blaming innocent people for the actions of an ostensibly deranged person — shame on you!
Are you willing to die helpless if you are attacked? And the same for any loved ones you may have?
Please post your home address to allow someone to test your convictions.
No Mike, mass shootings have occurred in gun free zones. The body count gets a lot higher because no one in these places are able to protect themselves. People like you are responsible for this. Look in the mirror and hold your head in shame. You don’t live in the country and you sound like you should stay away since you obviously don’t believe in the Constitution. It represents freedom, and affords protection for the innocent which you seek to eliminate. This country is meant to be free, not a country with restrictions on rights because the ignorant cannot educate themselves. Educated yourself and then maybe we can talk though the saying is that you can’t fix stupid, which is your problem.
Yeah, I know what you mean, like the freedom they have in Arizona, so when a whack-job like Loughner starts ashootin’, one of the many armed citizens in the crowd intervenes. They might not get him before he begins, but immediately after he gets going. Right?
mikeb, or like a off duty police officer intervening in a mall shooting in utah…ooops.
“The fact it, whatever gun violence there is in the US can be directly blamed on you gun-rights activists. You, and your momma, the NRA, are responsible for it.”
so its my fault that i am exercising a right guaranteed in the 2nd amendment?
FLAME DELETED
MikeyB you know it is not a tired line!! It is the truth. The media and the gun grabbers were screaming and yelling about stricter gin control laws before the Emergency Medical People were done helping the injured.
And how are we in the wrong?? We do not want any more of our freedoms taken away, not just 2A but all of them.
Want us to agree to “your common sense” gun laws?? Then you have to agree to our “common sense restrictions” on your right to free speech and right to worship and whatever else we want to restrict of your rights.
You want what all the other grabbers want: something that doesn’t work but will make you feel better about yourself because you know deep down in your heart that your more restrictive laws have led to and will continue to lead to more killings simply because the law abiding citizens who would run to the fight instead of away will having nothing to fight back with!!
And bringing someone’s Momma into the argument just proves that you know you are wrong, and have to resort to name calling to feel superior to others. Childish and ridiculous but oh so true!!
Comparing restrictions on gun ownership to restrictions on the freedom of speech is as tired and useless as the “dancing in the blood” accusation. Plus, it’s wrong. Restrictions are permissible on both rights.
Can our ‘gun’ violence be blamed for the hundreds of thousands killed in the Rwanda genocide where machetes were mainly used? 1. The violence was done by the perpetrator. 2. Other objects kill as well.
Oh, and the overall violent crime raw numbers and rate has been on a downward trajectory during the 1991-2010 time span, according to FBI statistics. I love math.
Don’t worry, anti’s hate math, so they’ll let you keep it.
There is also a correlation between when we dismanteled the mental health system in the 80’s and the number of mentally disturbed people who have created these crimes. To focus on guns is to ignore the root cause of the problem.
While the focus is on Newtown, CT, recall that just a few weeks ago another person from CT flew out to the midwest and killed his father and his fathers girlfriend with a crossbow — no guns required.
It’s not that gun availability isn’t a potential contributor, it’s that when you say it’s the only factor. There are also 70 million more people here than in ’82.
I think our society’s shifted some, too, but how do you put that into statistics? We give a lot of attention to mass murderers and spree killers, and put their name and deeds out in media. I think it’s hard to rule out a strange “me-too” tendency for these copycat school/public area sprees (was there even a definite “first”?).
If nothing else, when I read a claim that the NRA killed those victims in CT, it’s hard to take one’s argument seriously.
Agree that you have to acknowledge that the availability of guns to the perp played a part here. It’s delusional if you don’t .
Also agree that the “me too” effect cannot be underestimated.
Guns are the tools that, had one been present in the hands of a good guy, would have prevented this massacre and sent this deranged bit of garbge to his Maker and Judge.
The solution is in utilizing the militia.Pairs of volunteers armed with their own weapons should take turns guarding their local schools. Another pair should be posted in cars outside. This would provide the necessary deterrance. All governors should authorize such a plan immediately.
This. I was saying on Reddit last night that they should organize a volunteer security group of armed citizens vetted and trained (for the sake of getting more people to accept them as “safe” and “legitimate”) by the local police. Even just a handful of parents with guns walking around campus during the day would deter most shooters and provide a first response if a shooting occurred.
Or set up an organization like the US air marshals but for schools and large public areas like shopping malls
You could call them, the TSA!
The rise in spree shootings is also correlated with a collectivization of culture which has liberated the person of responsibility. That is an open invitation for sociopaths to commit murder in a very public way.
FYI. There has been far more mayham on the south and west sides of Chicago than in all the recent spree shootings combined. But I can imagine her saying “well what do you expect from a bunch of N*****s.” Their lives don’t count for much in her book.
I’ve never seen more guns at any one time than at a range.
Why does nobody ever shoot up a gun range?
Good post by Mas Ayoob. For those who dont know him he is a writer, LEO, trainer extraordinaire, competitive shooter and legal expert witness.
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2012/12/15/against-monsters/
+1 >>>Thank you Tommy Knocker…. Out here in the West they use to say “We kill our snakes”. We really need to get people back into that mindset… I have two kids in school right now and would jump at the chance to train up and help protect them… I know I’m not alone, many Dads that I know would do the same.
Brother you are not alone. Even though I live in a communist state on the East Coast my view of the world is right in line with yours.
One thing I am fearful of. Take it as a kindof warning. I have been hearing a number of ex-cops talking about having retired cops etc do security in the schools. In other words civilians aren’t good enough. BEWARE !!! I am getting that TSA smell in my nostrils. We might easily see a gigantic NEW FEDERAL organization created over this. With 150K schools in the USA, just imagine a half million man (or more) army of gov’t thugs now sitting in your kids schools. And we will pay for them.
What about Al-Qaeda? Do explosives, guns and box cutters cause them to take lives? The human behind the gun, bomb or box cutter is responsible, nobody and nothing else.
Sentiments like this are the result of people allowing their emotions to take over.
Not that she has any interest in a rational discourse…
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people including 19 children without a gun. That’s more people than all the mass shootings this year combined…
He used a bomb. Bombs are banned, illegal for civilian ownership, and the materials to build them are monitored.
Yet somehow McVeigh managed to get enough stuff to blow up a building full of people.
People who are only focused on ‘gun violence’ are missing the point. The problem is violence. Not gun, car, or knife violence. You need to focus on the people and their patterns of behavior, and take steps to provide some defense when these crazy people slip through.
Why was a school with over 700 children left totally open and defenseless to one nutter 20 year old. He walked in the front door and started shooting people unopposed. He was unopposed because people like Katie used their paranoia to make sure no one could provide meaningful resistance.
Good people with gun can stop bad people with guns.
Show me an example of a mass shooting being stopped by a gun free zone…
+1
Ok, ban guns already, sick of hearing this crap. I keep the .380 till the ammo runs out, and seeing as to how I do not go on killing sprees, that could be a long time. Take the guns, and all potential weapons, from those of us that do not engage in murderous, genocidal, sadistic behavior. Give in to the ones that want to feel safer in carrying out their rampages without any chance of opposition. They will be armed, with guns, knives, crowbars, machetes, baseball bats, whatever. How can a town be safe from this type of thing that happened in Ct, and elsewhere? Ring yourself with barbed wire, blast walls, tank pits, snipers, check points, police officers standing shoulder to shoulder. God forbid you should have any other means to protect yourself/others. Cut crime, sane or insane, make it legal? Put the gun in jail, after all it is not the shooter’s fault, it is the gun stupid.
It must be safer in Mexico. No civilian guns. What a utopian state! I think that the approach to gun control should be like the approach to abortion. If you want one get on. if not keep the “baby”.
I’m fine with being considered an idiot by the likes of this liberal a-hole. Go ahead and be a helpless victim for the good of others. I’ll be a selfish bastard and defend my family. But don’t worry… I promise to ignore your screams for help. Don’t want to create an embarrassing hypocritical moment for you, do we?
I can make a better case the proliferation of “gun free” zones creates more massacres than Katie J can make the case the proliferation of firearms creates more massacres.
I can’t take anyone seriously who uses the f-word. Not classy, not educated, and totally inappropriate for any conversation. Grow up and get a thesaurus.
The AR15 Has been on the civilian market since 1963. Why not, then, did the streets run red with blood in the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s? The problem is not with tools, but with society.
Well gorsch katie I didn’t know that guns were deadly, lol, little filly (my best John Wayne impression). Thank you for your insight, Randy
Very eloquent Katie. Let’s ban the solution, and dismiss the problems, all for the illusion of a safe community environment. BTW does your mother proofread your articles before submission.
A self-projecting sociopath masquerading as a “caring” gun-grabber in order to mask her own subconscious knowledge of her inner evil? Color me surprised.
Scratch a gun-grabber and you’ll always reveal either an idiot, a sociopath, or both.
People like this remind us why humanity is ultimately unworthy of saving.
Strange we gun owners gave time to let people console and be sorry for the victims.. Its the anti gunner being the rude jerks.
It’s a fact there is direct correlation between many things and gun crimes. Here’s a few things that have also grown in numbers during that time;
-NFL viewership
-Smart Phones
-The number of 7-11’s
-Tattoos
-Plastic Surgery
-TV channels
-and of course the notorious skinny jeans
Clearly the rate increase in all these areas correlates to the increased number of mass shootings.
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