“Good guys (with guns) stopping bad guys is a myth perpetuated in movies and television. The best chance of stopping a bad guy with a gun is good policy that makes it tougher to get one.” – B. Jeffrey Madoff in Good Guys With Guns? [at huffingtonpost.com]
I guess that guy in Oklahoma who stopped the Islamic fanatic from beheading that woman was just a Hollywood fantasy.
The big problem is the “no guns for good guys” zones. GG don’t have them when they most need them but BG…man, they love those signs. I carry everywhere. “F” those signs.
Same here. Those signs have no force of law in Iowa.
I respect property rights. I want to people to respect my wishes on my land so I respect their wishes. I let my wallet do the talking.
That is very good of you Johnny. My standards are not that high.
I’m sure your loved ones will care greatly for the property rights of people who disarm you during your funeral.
I’m with St. Louis Mike on this one. I pretty much take my business elsewhere when I see one of those signs, but if I have to go in one of those places I ignore the sign. In OK all they can do is ask you to leave. If you’re a dick about it and won’t, they can have the cops get you for trespass.
One store that I frequent that carries items that are not readily available anywhere else locally has removed their sign after polite customer suggestions, and my brother has struck up a conversation about it (while open carrying) with the owner of another store that has posted those signs. The guy now claims he only posted it to placate other customers and has no intention of asking anyone to leave. I think he will eventually remove it.
I respect property rights. If they ask me to leave I’ll politely let them know they’ve lost my patronage and leave. Besides, the only business I can think of in my town that had a sign up went out of business anyway. I did go to a minor league baseball game last month armed, but they didn’t post the policy on their website and I figured if they didn’t have the common courtesy to do that I wasn’t walking back to the car.
And what seems to be lost in the conversation is that BGs carry wherever they want – even in posted gun free zones, because even if they are confronted they have the option of shooting their way out. Good guys in that situation are asked to leave and generally do so politely.
We all know that Schindler’s List is the real antigunner Hollywood fantasy.
Schindler’s List wasn’t fantasy it was history. The flip side of the coin though is the 6 million Jews and 5 million other people who weren’t saved by Oskar Schindler.
I’d pay cash to hear the story of a wannabe mass-hole that saw a”gun free zones” sign and said “Phooey” and went home a watched t.v.
I would too, but I can’t say that it’s not physically or rationally impossible for a person to do so. It’s like disarmament in general: trade-offs between likely human actions and the occasional unlikely successful Utopian disarmament induced prevention of a crime.
It’s possible for a person to be turned down during a background check in a gun store, decide to not pursue further attempts at purchasing a gun, and then decide that a murder would be just too inconvenient without a gun and decide otherwise. I’m sure it’s happened at least once. However, this is not a common thing. Compared to defensive gun uses or successful violent crime/homicide on people unarmed because of legislation cooperation, anti-gun psychological conditioning, laziness, etc., it’s a tiny number.
Just make sure that we don’t act like we need 100% to win, where they will point out an exception and think they’re right, when we only need a majority. We have a huge majority. Defensive gun use obviously is far more common than actual homicide, and far more people will commit homicide even if not allowed by legislation, especially with a less defended target. Their exceptions are few.
Is this guy insane? Are cops not good guys? well sort of. However how will policy change the black market? Stop people from stealing guns and selling them to the “bad guys”? It can’t and never has.
Actually, I was wondering the same thing. Then it dawned on me that he might be onto something. A complete and detailed policy combined with one or two studies documenting it’s effectivenes might work. Printed, they couldhave some substantial weight and could hurt someone if employed in a suitable manner. Paper is heavy stuff.
But I don’t think he meant that. Plus, he looks constipated.
You should post this as a comment on the linked article facebook page. (I don’t facebook.) “Cops are good guys with guns too. Why didn’t you count them? “
…and here’s your money shot;
‘Proposed gun legislation may not have prevented Dylann Roof from getting and using his gun…’
Exactly. Shooting incident happens. Question is raised: What can we do to keep this from happening again? Leftist brainiac answers: We must do thus-and-so, which wouldn’t have kept this from happening, and won’t keep it from happening again. Makes it easy to see how leftists are so much smarter than everybody else, doesn’t it?
Exactly. The proposed solution is to make it harder for people to get guns. But with some 320,000,000 already in circulation, what exactly will this accomplish? The black market will not cease to exist, and unstable people with no criminal/psychiatric records will still be able to buy guns, whether legally or illegally. Why do they not see that their proposed solution, unless accompanied by a total gun ban and seizure of all arms from Americans woo have no discernible effect? Oh wait….
On top of the massive supply of guns already in circulation, they are relatively simple machines. The 1911 design is 104 years old, with some tweaking over the decades, and is completely open source. The CZ-75 is 40 this year and it’s basically open source, having spawned a bunch of clones. The AK-47 is 68 and the AR-15 is 58. It’s a bit an of an exaggeration, but if you have the technology to make bicycles, you have the technology to make guns.
Yes, it may be ballistic but it’s not rocket science. They’ve been rifling barrels since the 1500s. Look at the issues they have trying to squash the black market for consumables like pot and meth, etc. And they think they can keep one of the most durable products ever made out of the hands of criminals?
Then why, Mr. Madoff, do people in Illinois, New York, and California, and even in France, still find a way to obtain guns? Because (unfortunately) no amount of legislation is going to stop it, just as having laws against rape and murder don’t prevent all rapes and murders.
Laws exist for many things, but first and foremost to outline the range of punishment for infractions, and to punish those infractions. Making something illegal won’t stop someone from doing it entirely.
Much less, Mr. Madoff, you ignore news stories to the contrary of your opinion. Must be convenient.
You, Mr. Madoff, are MAD: OFF your rocker.
While I support background checks (but not the current system, which is a de facto gun registry) to keep felons and worse criminals from just strolling into a gun store and buying what they want, that won’t prevent a black market on guns entirely. A black market that the police play footsie with, thinking that being able to track guns means they can pinpoint where they come from and where they go. (They should just arrest black market salepersons outright, and use surveillance for the rest.)
I’ll jump in here and save RF from having to take the heat.
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
I checked that against my copy of the Constitution, so I think I transcribed it correctly. I fail to find in that statement anywhere the words “but” “unless” or “except for”.
There is no provision for and a definite prohibition AGAINST the government taking any steps whatsoever to infringe on the right of anyone to keep and bear arms. A registry of persons who the government has decided no longer have their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms is the very definition of “infringed” and once established that the government can set the standards for who is “allowed” to exercise a right, is it in fact a right anymore?
As uncomfortable as it makes many people, even frequent readers at this site, feel, there is no way to give the government the ability to infringe on the RKBA without giving it up as a right altogether. As has been stated here over and over and over, Bad Guys will still get guns. Net effect: one more scheme where the good guys lose and the BGs don’t give a fvck.
The only reliable defense against Bad Guys with guns is for so many good guys to have guns that it makes the Bad Guy business un-economical and extremely hazardous to their health. People who are allergic to bee stings NEVER reach into a hive to steal a little honey.
Into the vortex of a parallel universe. Where ink on paper magically stops criminals from obtaining & using guns in commission of crimes.
SILLY RABBIT.
Special words, gestures, and writings that stop evil from doing its thing has a name.
It’s called magic.
Unfortunately, we live in the space-time continuum where Newtonian physics and mathematics, not Newtonian alchemy and wizardry, turned out to be right. As a side note, I suspect the human race invented the concept of magic as a way of pretending the real world doesn’t need to be this hard, as much as a way of explaining weird stuff.
Daddy says the false prophets of old used cheap parlor tricks to control the people. And to get babes. Like 10 or 12 hot babes each.
Bad guys don’t need guns. It’s actually a bit of a blessing that firearms are the go to. If arson and explosives were the norm I think death tolls would be higher.
Here’s a tip, spanky… bad dudes don’t grab their gats at Wally World or Guns R Us.
What he really means is that the whole country should be a gun free zone. Would that include the ones people would make from pipes?
I immediately hate his face. It offends me. We need some common sense face control. No one needs that much smug. Stop the madness.
Like anyone with the name B. Madoff has any credibility these days…..
LOL, is this Bernie with plastic surgery ? Needed something to do while spending his time in prison for fleecing people ? Seriously though, you are right in saying this guy has NO credibility. Passing laws does not stop crime or anything else. But our legislators would like us all to believe they do. Otherwise what justification is there for them to take our money while they make up new ones ?
No civilian every stopped a mass shooting.
http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/
Duh! I can’t think an original thought so I’ll just wing it and get some wampum from the Anti- gun Fascist big guy with all the bucks, it’s all about the Money er I mean safety! sh I am filling my bank account bye pedaling this trash and maybe earn some brownie points from the Anti-American Anti-Constitutional Democrats that have screwed the American People since FDR, maybe even get appointed to a Government Job I am not qualified for, I Know, I may become the N-Word talking Presidents Spokesperson those guys can pervert the truth an do it with a straight face. gotta practice that!
this guy makes a living perverting the truth absolutely with no creditability
Come on, just look at his face and you can tell he is way smarter than everyone else. At least he thinks so.
These things do not happen in other civilized countries, as we have seen this week by the religion of peace promoting work place violence.
Yep, laws and signs are super effective. That’s why I can patrol all day and never see someone violating a speed limit sign. Or a “right lane must exit” sign. Or blowing a stoplight. Or see how effective these tough new cell phones laws are.
/sarc
If laws and signs made us safe, then POTUS could arm the secret service with “No Guns” and “Safety First!” signs instead of Sig P229s, MP5s, shotguns, and M4s.
Proposed gun legislation may not have prevented Dylann Roof from getting and using his gun – but it could prevent others.
This should be the anti’s battle cry.
Should I should give up my freedom because someone else misuses theirs?
Of course, duh. Do you even statist, bro?
Well we now know based on the mounting plethora of articles, what the antis new line of attack is. They are going after the good guy with a gun. They are going to claim it’s a myth, it’s a lie, and cite manipulated statistics. The hope being if enough people tell the lie enough times, the public will believe it.
I hope they do just that, since several links can easily prove them wholly wrong.
Hmmm, good guys with guns stopping bad guys from doing bad things is a myth?
Just down the street is a Wal-Mart in Albuquerque where a citizen with an OC gun shot and killed a guy stabbing his ex-wife in an attempt to murder her.
I stopped a bad guy from kidnapping and killing his ex-wife, without needing to shoot him, which is what happens in 9 out of 10 self-defense situations involving a gun.
A sight of a gun, drawn and pointing at a bad guy, causes a bad guy to rethink about being bad, at least at that moment.
What this person is really saying is that he sees everyone not of the government, as being incompetent, ineffectual, helpless and defenseless and not being capable of handling a basic requirement of any mature adult, or child for that matter.
That requirement is using lethal force in defense of self and others. Yes, even children are capable of this, as history up to current time has repeatedly shown..
Statists have an utter and complete contempt for the masses, as this type of thinking shows.
Yeah, and what about the doctor in PA…the SRO in Colorado…and a whole long laundry list of other examples.
A lie is a lie; easy to refute. One has to be brain dead to believe the Statist nonsense one reads on huffpo.
“…using lethal force in defense of self and others…” seems like when you boil it down that is the very definition of “Militia” and I’m also sure that even the antis admit that this is part of the Second Amendment that they kind of agree with.
I am also reminded of the tag line from Crimson Trace commercials: “Helping Bad Guys make good decisions.”
Jeffrey Madoff is a lying _________.
Mas Ayoob on 10 Cases Where An Armed Citizen Took Down An Active Shooter – See more at: http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/03/10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter/#10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter-2
If he’s any relation to Bernie Madoff, he’s just trying to find a new way for his family to screw people.
Eithet way, HE’S (D) blue state poo
Same stupid lie. We cannot stop drugs from being smuggled into the US….and drugs are illegal. The US is not an island with an overreaching criminal justice system. Criminals are always going to have guns. Heck, with a decent metal shop, many people can make a fairly crude black-powder gun within a day or so. Deadly weapons, like knives, can be purchased at Home Depot without a background check. With a short search on the Internet, many people can build a crude bomb with the stuff in their garage. If a bad guy still wants a gun, what is to stop him from ambushing a police officer and taking his gun. Unless the bad guy is in prison, there is absolutely no way to stop him from getting a gun, period.
Notice how he didn’t say “good policy that makes it harder for BAD GUYS to get guns…” And policy versus law? This guy is a clown and the photo matches his poorly informed statement.
And that, students, is an example of “denying the premise” (the premise being there’s a bad guy who has a gun)–and prospectively, to boot. Factual fail, logical fail–how many ways can these guys fail and still be in business?
Really? I see nothing but contempt for armed non-LEO civilians in television and film. Witness the QOTD I submitted to TTAG a while back about the anti-2A content in the Blacklist…
Trusting someone named Madoff…
I can name two incident in the last couple of months off the top of my head that refute his claim. ThE Chicago Uber driver and the Georgia open carrier.. My guess is that he is sincere in his belief since none of his information sources report such events.
Most religions require “faith”. I.E. – believing in something without empirical evidence. Then there is Scientology, which requires one to believe in the loony and convoluted vision of a man quoted as saying, ‘You don’t get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.” Or Mormonism, whose founding father is another proven con man who has managed to fool a lot of the people a lot of the time. Both require a willful ignorance possessed by only the truly stupid.
But progressivism requires believing so many things that are demonstratively, continuously, and daily proven false as to boggle the mind. Socialism is the greatest system of government – despite the examples of the USSR, China, and any country that has dipped a toe in that poison pool. Global warming is the greatest threat to the world – despite the failure of every global warming model and NO global warming in 14 years. And more laws will stop people who are, by definition, lawbreakers.
The amount of faith required outdoes the greatest religious cons of all time. These people must walk around with their eyes closed, and their fingers in their ears, humming, “Nay, nay, nay. I can’t hear you!” all day long. Every day. They could walk face first into reality and not recognize it.They live in the land of make believe.
If only they suddenly all believed they could fly.
Ad Hominem attacks at the beginning of your statement immediately cancel out whatever it is you had to say and reduce you and your views to the level of bigotry where they belong.
I’m late-took my Bernie Madoff quip…lol
Why stop at gun regulation? Get to the root of the violence problem and start regulating hands. No hands, no crimes…well till someone invents mouth guns. /sarc
The biased media never reports it, and they’re non stories anyway because they didn’t turn into mass shootings. But even the smallest, cursory bit of research would have soundly proven this idiot wrong. I typed three words into Google and dozens of stories of people in righteous DGUs popped up.
But, of course, he knew he’d prove himself wrong and since his fragile emotional state is based on his delusion, he instead chose to make a fool of himself.
Also, if good guys with guns don’t stop bad guys with guns, why do the police and secret service carry them?
Of course this douche thinks this way because the media doesn’t report on the ones that were stopped, it’s not shocking and doesn’t fit the grabber agenda.
I liked this Madoff guy better when he was running a Ponzi scheme.
This Asshole isn’t worth more than a ten word response!
If and when the day comes that I am murdered by a gunman. I hope and pray that the gun he uses was “tougher” for him to get. It is so much more easy to accept the death of innocents as long as we know that the killer had to steal or illegally buy the murder weapon rather than use one he owned for years or one that he just decided to buy from a legitimate source.
To a liberal, anyone contemplating murder, if forced to mull over the act, will somehow decide against it. They also believe that just the act of holding a gun brings up thoughts of taking out vengeance on those one hates. It makes me wonder what truly dwells in the heart of a liberal that they could think this way. It must be projection that draws them to this conclusion.
“B. Jeffrey Madoff” indeed. B. Jeffrey is obviously very full of himself. His body language and maniacal stare just screams his self-importance.
All statistics and accumulated evidence based on historical data compiled by various agencies are cast aside. That particular data doesn’t fit his agenda.
Like others have said, maybe this article was really aimed at the diminutive Herr Bloomberg.
No, actually folks do stop bad guys with guns IF they have a way to do so. Guns are the obvious way to do that. Contrary to this self-important azzes opinion. The best way to stop the bad guys is to make it easier to get guns so that the potential victims can defend themselves. So quit spreading this idiotic propaganda and acting like you know more than anyone else when the facts show exactly the opposite. Pretending to be smarter than everyone else does not make it so.
He’s high, or stoned, or stupid or something.
Seriously. Look at those eyes.
It’s from Huffpo. Not worth the electrons used to put it on the ‘net.
Next time a “bad” guy kills someone I’ll get them aside and ask them what policy would have stopped them from acquiring a firearm. Always the focus of cause on the tool, not the operator. You can’t fight these idiots with facts.
Other than lacking factual knowledge, that refutes his fantasy statement, this guy doesn’t seem to have functional reasoning.
“The best chance of stopping a bad guy with a gun is good policy that makes it tougher to get one.”
If the bad guy has a gun, as presumed in this passage, a policy stopping him from getting a new one isn’t going to mean squat when he starts loosing bullets.
“The best chance of stopping a bad guy with a gun is good policy that makes it tougher to get one.”
This kind of idiotic statement reminds me of the time My jeep broke a U-joint the freeway.. U-joint fails… I roll to the side of the road.. Cop comes up behind me and says. ” hay, You cant park here!”.. I said I didnt parked, I stopped.. cops says, “doesnt matter, you cant park here”… I just shrugged my shoulders….
No chance at keeping the bad guy away from a gun after the fact…
I’m not a violent person, but looking at someone the way he does is grounds for a serious kick to the sack. Especially with the makeup on. That’s just before he gives his opinion on rights infringement.
They made drugs illegal and all it did was make the drug dealers richer + fill our prisons with millions of non violent offenders.
Then why do you keep demanding more police officers, ya creepy-eyed weirdo?
You know, “good policies” like they had in Tunisia, or Norway, or Paris. Or in the Warsaw Ghetto. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Why do this Madoff guy’s eyes glitter?
Why do all these guys have “crazy eyes”? This dude looks a little unhinged just sitting there.
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