“Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry is gone, and because of Fast and Furious he won’t be home again this year for Christmas. Yet it appears that today, one year since his death, we’re no closer to punishing the perpetrators who caused it than we were a month after it happened. Holder, Burke, and everyone else involved in the planning, execution, and cover-up of Fast and Furious, ought to be imprisoned for the rest of their lives.” – A.W.R. Hawkins at biggovernment.com
“Holder, Burke, and everyone else involved in the planning, execution, and cover-up of Fast and Furious, ought to be imprisoned for the rest of their lives.”
I’d say executed. The punishment for those in the government charged with upholding the law committing crimes should be harsher than for everyone else.
I agree with you on the punishment, but not on the logic behind it, at least not as such. That is to say that such provisions are unnecessary in this case.
Specifically, I posit that the Mexican drug cartels are enemies of this country, and that gunwalker was intended to give them aid and comfort. Ergo, gunwalker constitutes treason, for which death is the punishment.
What a slippery slope you’ve stumbled upon. Perhaps you should read the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act, everyone can now be considered a terrorist and an enemy of the state.
That is an interesting bill. Still trying to figure out if this applies to USA citizens or just foreign citizens. I really would not wish it on any civilized country.
Wait, I thought the thinking was that ‘guns don’t kill people, people do’. That the production, sale and ownership of weapons had nothing to do with the criminal actions of those who might use them.
I don’t support misusing gun issues for political gain, by either side.
“punishing the perpetrators who caused it”
That sounds like he was murdered while he slept, but thats not what really happened was it? According to the website (rememberbrianterry.com), which was presumably put up by the Terry family:
“This poem is what Brian had lived his life by… If you seek to do battle with me this day you will receive the best that I am capable of giving. It may not be enough, but it will be everything I have to give and it will be impressive, for I have constantly prepared myself for this day. I have trained, drilled, and rehearsed my actions so that I might have the best chance of defeating you. I have kept myself in peak physical condition, schooled myself in the martial skills and have become proficient in the applications of combat tactics. You may defeat me, but you will be lucky to escape with your life. You may kill me, but I am willing to die if necessary. I do not fear death; for I have been close enough to it on enough occasions that it no longer concerns me. But I do fear the loss of my Honor and would rather die fighting than to have it said that I was without courage. So I will fight you, no matter how insurmountable it may seem, and to the death if need be, in order that it may never be said of me that I was not a warrior.”
If thats the way Brian Terry lived his life, then it sounds alot more like he was a loser, and his family are sore losers. He fought, he lost, he died, just as he wanted. He was more concerned about his ego than his own life.
“If thats the way Brian Terry lived his life, then it sounds alot more like he was a loser, and his family are sore losers. He fought, he lost, he died, just as he wanted. He was more concerned about his ego than his own life.”
I think it’s time you took a shower and thought about how callous this sounds. Maybe it’s time for you to look in the mirror and take a good hard look.
You don’t deserve the protection or service Brian Terry provided.
Terry never protected or served me nor his country, he served his own self interest, a desire to fight, a desire to kill, a desire to be remembered as a warrior. His country simply provided a means to an end. It may be callous, but it is certainly not false.
If a soldier is killed on the battlefield, is it murder? I doubt anyone here would say so, the opposing soldier defended himself from an armed threat. This is no different.
There is a world of difference between a warrior and a killer, matt.
Your right, there is. Look at any military or law enforcement operation, they rely primarily on overwhelming force so that opposition has no chance at all. With a killer or murderer you at least have a chance of defeating them in a somewhat fair fight. Warriors on the other hand will only fight when the odds overwhelmingly favor them. Look at our warriors in Iraq, kicking down doors of private residences with a couple dozen heavily armed troops versus the head of the household with a single AK. Or how is it honorable to kill someone with a drone? I would say a killer/murderer fights in a much more honorable way than any of our various armed forces do, even if the only reason they do so is due to a lack of resources.
Gosh, it almost sounds like you are equating warriors with cowardice. Is that something you regularly do in real life, or do you try to confine it to the time you are safely behind a monitor?
I am and I do, would you care to contradict me? If your ever around Chicago, let me know and you can hear me rant IRL.
I cannot believe I spent 8 years of my life defending your right to call me a coward.
*facepalm*
If its any condolence, you wernt defending my rights, you were defending corporate interests.
No. Please, stop believing that Iraq and Afghanistan are the only military operations that occurred in the past 15-20 years.
Well then since it appears you would like to make this personal. What did you do in the military, and what operations did you participate in. Feelfreeto create a newthread since this one is reachingits depth limit.
The military / LEO’s are cowardly. There’s nothing honorable about having overwhelming numbers and superior weapons in a fight.
I suppose you think a dozen varsity footballs players beating up a scrawny kid half their age is “honorable” and “courageous”?
Courage is being willing to fight a battle you know you can’t win because you believe it’s worth fighting. Cowardice is only fighting battles that you know you can’t lose.
And there’s a world of difference between a warrior and a soldier. Soldiers have far more in common with murderers than they do with warriors.
oh, I’m so sorry, I thought you lived in the US. I guess not. If you do, maybe you’re better suited to life abroad.
See my reply Moonshine above, been in the US all my life except a brief trip thru Canada to get to New York.
Was that a voluntary or involuntary visit to the insane asylum?
As a child with my father to visit relatives in Buffalo, NY.
As a U.S. Marine I personally take offense to that. It is the warriors creed. Just because, you lack the honor and courage that me and my fellow warriors have gives you no right to talk smack. Consider yourself served.
-Cpl.Walker USMC 3/3 Kilo Co. Gulf War/OIF/OEF/Afg.War Veteran
Sorry you had to see that, Cpl., but as I’m sure you will soon learn, matt has a special kind of hatred for those of us who have served.
Matt, I’m not here for personal attacks – by you or toward you. Here’s my question: you make it sound like the use of superior tactics, equipment, or numbers to win a fight makes one a coward. Is that your stand? You may see honor in losing a “fair fight,” but if one won’t use an obvious advantage to end (win) a battle, that doesn’t make you honorable – it makes you vulnerable, it prolongs the fight, and it endangers more life.
I agree completely on bring an end to a war, the problem is that the military isnt doing that, they are not engaged in total war, even the Nazi’s didnt fully engage in total war. Our troops arent fighting a war, there isnt a uniformed enemy, instead they are attempting to subjugate a civilian population. Had we been interested in ending the fight with a decisive American victory, the first strikes would have been with nukes or advanced biological and chemical weapons. I mean, there is no way you can possibly say our military is interested in ending the war with a american victory, when domestic police generally have looser rules of engagement than the military.
Then there is the reason we are there fighting, but that is a completely different argument.
Coward isnt the best word, although in many ways it does apply, from my point of view at least, I think a more appropriate word to use would be dishonorable.
In a perfect world, all the things you speak off would not happen. But to talk trash about someone who is dead regardless of what he died for or what he died doing is very low. You are as low as the Westboro Baptist Church and those people are low.
A poem is only truly understood by the person who wrote it. Cause when written the emotions felt at the time are what dictate the words so don’t talk like you know what those words mean on that poem, and that he got what he wanted cause you know nothing about who he was as a person.
If you want to change the world or the US and its tactics then run for president if that is an impossibility for you then don’t act like we can somehow chance the world we live in. I love america with all of its flaws, if you think we are that bad get the hell out and go live under a dictator ship for a few decades and then come back and tell me if this place is that bad after all.
RIP Brian Terry.
Matt, I actually enjoy your rants, but I don’t think you should go cold turkey on the chlorpromazine.
Ralph++ – either the disorganized schizophrenia, or somewhere on the autism spectrum. Really odd thought patterns and emotional responses.
if we had turned the desert into glass after one week in this battle, i suspect you and i would be having this same discussion.
i appreciate you avoiding the ‘why are we fighting’ discussion. that is another can of worms.
with regard to agent terry… thank you for choosing to protect this country, and for your willingness to sacrifice your life if need be. it just seems, in this case, that he didn’t need to die by the hand of his own government. yes, i know – oversimplification. chances are very good his murderers would have been armed regardless. the issue, i think, is the outrage that should be felt due to the manner in which he died, and the outrage that should be felt regarding the cover-up in the following months… years?
at any rate, we got off topic.
last, i will always pick the bigger stick in a fight, honor be damned. there is always honor in victory. there is never a ‘final battle.’ live to see the next one.
“This poem is what Brian had lived his life by… If you seek to do battle with me this day you will receive the best that I am capable of giving. It may not be enough, but it will be everything I have to give and it will be impressive, for I have constantly prepared myself for this day. I have trained, drilled, and rehearsed my actions so that I might have the best chance of defeating you. I have kept myself in peak physical condition, schooled myself in the martial skills and have become proficient in the applications of combat tactics. You may defeat me, but you will be lucky to escape with your life. You may kill me, but I am willing to die if necessary. I do not fear death; for I have been close enough to it on enough occasions that it no longer concerns me. But I do fear the loss of my Honor and would rather die fighting than to have it said that I was without courage. So I will fight you, no matter how insurmountable it may seem, and to the death if need be, in order that it may never be said of me that I was not a warrior.”
I guess he got his wish. I think this guy is being over rated. A lot of people put themselves in harm’s way every day and some get killed or injured, with little fan fare. Brian knew that he was involved in a risky trade and embraced the dangers; and dang, things like this, can and does happen.
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