“There are some people who react very strongly and negatively [to open carry], but I think the more that people see firearms carried peacefully, the less they’ll expect sort of action-movie things to happen. I think there are a lot of people whose only exposure to firearms is through violence in films. I don’t think that’s constructive.” – Michigan resident Jeremiah Chesney [via mlive.com]
I agree. Plenty of folks will eventually get over the hysterics and might possibly get curious enough to pop a few rounds at a range.
You hope that’s what happens. What I predict is that people will become ever more convinced that gun-rights advocates like the ones who do open-carry rallies are nuts. That conviction will spill over onto the rest of you who don’t actually go to such rallies but support them.
In fact, you might lose some of your own. Many gun owners view these folks as fanatics who are harmful to the cause.
What’s your point?
Anyway, the current trend is towards loosening restrictions on carry, both concealed and open.
See: Concealed Carry map http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Rtc.gif
Kid’s got a good head on his shoulders. If I had a son, he’d look like Jeremiah. But with a haircut. And a Benelli.
So now we know how some Michiganders feel, but how about the Michigeese? Don’t they count, or am I being Meshugah?
I am calling you Ralph on to many M’s!!! 🙂
If you put it that way sure the only problem is; its hard enough trying to convince people that simple own a gun is OK. Now your trying to force them into believing that open carry is OK too. I sort of agree with them as in the more people OCing will lead to more violence but not in the same manner as they see it. I’m thinking the more people open carry the more tempted LEOs are to shoot some one for no reason.
We’ve all seen that person you know the “OMG THEY HAVE A GUN” person. I see nothing wrong with OC other then the fact that main stream has convinced people guns are bad and anyone that has one other then LEOs are up to no good. I personally prefer conceal carry mostly because I just don’t want people knowing that I have a firearm on me. But I have to agree it could not have said any better.
“the more that people see firearms carried peacefully, the less they’ll expect sort of action-movie things to happen.”
Now your trying to force them into believing that open carry is OK too.
In many state’s, open carry is 100% legal but people don’t due to harassment. All it takes is a police chief / county Sheriff, mayor, whoever to make it the official policy that is someone calls the police because “someone is walking around with a gun!” the dispatcher is to ask if they are acting in a threatening manner and other questions. If they cannot state that the person is acting in a way that implies they intend to do harm, the dispatcher is to tell the person “Sorry, but they’re not doing anything wrong. We can’t send out an officer to harass someone who’s doing a legal activity”.
I know is legal the problem convincing er reminding the public that is legal. Many civilians even some LEOs are unaware that it is legal and insist that their doing something wrong.
Normally some coward calls the police, they come out and waste 20 minutes of the person’s time, then the police leave and everyone goes about their business. All they have to do is tell the person to piss off when they call 911 about someone walking peacefully down the street and they’ll learn REALLY damn quick that it’s not a crime.
That’s why I believe all law enforcement personal need to be taught the local state and federal restrictions on carrying a firearm in the areas they have jurisdiction over.
Yeah…..I don’t buy the whole open carry movement. Seeing guns in public spaces isn’t going to make people more accepting of them. Check the 1872 Pennsylvania Constitutional Convention Debates. The debate between open and concealed carry hasn’t changed much in the last 140 years. It starts with a committee member suggesting that the constitution be changed to “The right of the citizens openly to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State, shall not be questioned.” and pretty good debate goes on from there which culminates with a speech by a Mr. Dallas. In any event the amendment fails and Penn fails to have open carry.
I am all for concealed carry, but open carry isn’t necessary in today’s world. The movement isn’t about being safer, or adjusting folks to firearms. It is about forcing your opinions on other people. It’s forcing people to look at you and your gun. Personally, I don’t want to see your gun when I am out with my family, I don’t want to see someone wandering around with a firearm for no reason. Keep it concealed, and stop making a spectacle of yourself.
http://democraticthinker.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/1872-debate-pennsylvania-constitution-and-the-right-to-self-defense/
Personally, I don’t want to see your gun when I am out with my family, I don’t want to see someone wandering around with a firearm for no reason.
Sorry, but that is the damn dumbest comment I’ve seen here from someone who’s not MikeB. You claim that you’re for concealed carry, yet you say that it’s wrong to “wonder around with a firearm for no reason” – how the frak does you seeing the gun change that? Just because you’re afraid of an inanimate object doesn’t mean anyone is doing anything wrong or that it’s evil.
A plumber can bash your skull in with a wrench quite easily, yet I’m sure you wouldn’t state that they need to keep it concealed and that you shit your pants if you see them “wandering around with a wrench for no reason”.
It’s not about forcing opinions on anyone, it’s getting cowards to realize that there’s nothing to be afraid of just because someone is holding an inanimate object. Many more people would carry if they could open carry without fear of harassment because concealed carry is a bit of a pain (in terms of clothing and activities) – especially for women due to differences in clothing.
Wow cut down on the flaming and the coffee would ya. It is a personal objection to a argument that has been debated for a 100+ years, so to assert your opinion is any more valid or my argument is any less intelligent than yours is pure asshatery. My question is why do you need to carry the weapon openly? It’s not the wild west despite what you hear by conservative bloggers. What can you do with an openly carried weapon that you can’t do with a concealed weapon?
The debate for open carry isn’t a debate about protection or the necessity to have a weapon readily available to defend ones self. The onus for open carry is convert the general public to your way of thinking. I am comfortable around firearms, however I think they are a tool, and tools shouldn’t be taken out of the toolbox simply for the purpose of self aggrandizement. You can preform all of the necessary self defense function by carrying concealed, so why do you need to open carry? Is it necessary for your self defense to impose your thinking on the rest of the public? I would submit that it isn’t.
My question is why do you need to carry the weapon openly?
Why do you need to hide it? Do you feel the need to hide any other legally owned item? Generally, no. As I pointed out before, many more people would carry (especially women) if they could open carry without being harassed due to clothing issues and comfort.
What can you do with an openly carried weapon that you can’t do with a concealed weapon?
Carry a better gun and extra magazines for starters. Unless you’re the Hulk, most people can’t get by carrying a full size pistol under their clothes without wearing extremely baggy clothes. Another good reason is it tells potential troublemakers to back the hell off.
The debate for open carry isn’t a debate about protection or the necessity to have a weapon readily available to defend ones self. The onus for open carry is convert the general public to your way of thinking.
Bullshit. It’s about not having to hide in shame because you have a legally owned item to use for legally protected self defense. No one is saying that people like you have to LIKE guns, merely to stop peeing your pants in fear just because you see a person exercising their legal rights with a legally owned item in a 100% legal manner.
I am comfortable around firearms, however I think they are a tool, and tools shouldn’t be taken out of the toolbox simply for the purpose of self aggrandizement.
That’s a laugh. You’re clearly afraid of guns (and apparently anything that makes a loud noise) or else you wouldn’t be saying that they should remain hidden from view at all times unless absolutely necessary to get it out.
Is it necessary for your self defense to impose your thinking on the rest of the public?
I already answered this absurd question. No one’s views are being imposed on anyone. Using your logic, gays being allowed to hold hands or go out in public is “imposing their thinking on the rest of the public”. What part of a LEGAL activity do you not understand? Legal behavior should not be hidden in shame just because you and a few other cowards are afraid of it.
Wow Toten agian, you can’t make a cogent argument without attacking people. You seem like the sort of coward who carries a gun becuase he has been ridiculed for having small genitals and nneds to carry a gun becuase he has to feel like he has something poweful in his pants. Your the kind of mental deficient coward who waould rather confront someone online than do it in person.
For you open carry is about asserting your manhood to the public. It is a statement, “I may be weak and unattractive but I compensate for that by carrying a pistol so don’t screw with me.”
You seem like the sort of coward who carries a gun becuase he has been ridiculed for having small genitals and nneds to carry a gun becuase he has to feel like he has something poweful in his pants. Your the kind of mental deficient coward who waould rather confront someone online than do it in person.
Right, I’m the one who resorts to insults.
You didn’t make a single point in your post because you HAVE no justification for your previous post crying about how seeing a gun scares you.
“You can preform all of the necessary self defense function by carrying concealed, so why do you need to open carry?”
—–
Watch this:
“You can preform all of the necessary self defense function by carrying openly, so why do you need to carry concealed?”
Get it?
I think open carry is an infantile “look at me with my gun” gesture too. I too, don’t really need or want to see your gun. I liken those that open carry to the women with the overdone boob job, or the guy with rims on his car that are worth more than the car, or people who never take their bluetooth off. Yeah, that’s your right, but you look like an idiot, and in my book it says something about what’s going on inside. No need to advertise other than ego, machismo, id…and insecurity. yeah, I know the police are not going to protect me, and there are animals out there, but I saw from the posts regarding that Louisville shooting that if the SHTF, a lot of these open carry cowboys aren’t going to protect me either…so I concealed carry.
Wow! Frankly, whether or not open carry is “necessary in today’s world” is not a determining factor in my decision to do so. I don’t carry my gun openly “for the world”, but for me.
I certainly don’t carry a gun for no reason, nor do I ever wander about with no purpose. The reasons I open carry are:
1. To have the means to defend myself and others against armed criminals.
2. It’s physically more comfortable to not stuff my gun in my waistband.
3. I believe open carry is a crime deterrent. Just google: waffle house open carry.
4. While most people don’t notice my gun, the few that do sometimes strike up a conversation with me, and it’s always been a positive one.
5. A few might notice my gun and be inspired to start carrying a gun themselves, which may one day save their life.
My openly carried gun has never forced my opinion on anyone. As I’ve said before, most people don’t even notice it. Now maybe if I carried a sign and had a bullhorn roaring, I might agree with you about forcing myself on others. LOL
But really, peacefully carrying a pistol on my hip, and smiling and being polite to everyone I come in contact with is somehow an imposition on others? Again, wow! LOL
You don’t want to see my gun when you’re out with your family? Then don’t stare at it! I never open carry for the purpose of offending delicate constitutions such as yours. Or for the purpose of offending people who have an irrational fear of inanimate objects. Last time I heard, there isn’t a Constitutional right to not be offended.
I might not want to see you wearing dark socks with shorts, so I’ll just turn my head and not mention it to you. After all, I tend to mind my own business.
Would you ever be offended if an open carrier came to the rescue of you or one of your family members?
This reminds me of anti-gay rhetoric: “you can do whatever you want secretly, but why do I have to see it?”
Why should people who are doing nothing wrong hide in shame because other people sensibilities might be offended? If people could be trusted not to over-react, I’d open carry, because I wouldn’t have to worry as much about clothing choices and all that. As it is, open carry is at the very least an invitation to have unnecessary conversations with random strangers.
In my personal opinion, wearing all black and OCing a rifle and a handgun at the same time is NOT the best method for introducing people to firearms in a positive way. But that is just my opinion. YMMV.
Right, because wearing black causes emotional instability and makes your bullets do +50 damage… 🙂
In the eyes of the general population, yes. Looks are everything in our brain dead society. If you look like a columbine shooter, it doesn’t matter if you help old ladies across the street and give all your money to charity. They still just see the image and judge from there. When I OC I go out of my way to dress nicely. Business casual with a gun goes over much better than grunge with a gun.
In the words of Barney Stinson, “Suit up!”
Sorry, but I don’t get the whole cowering in front of gun grabbers deal. I’m more of the mindset of Deacon Frost in Blade – we have the numbers and the power, why the HELL are we the ones cowering in fear of our enemies?
“makes your bullets do +50 damage”
—–
Coffee everywhere. Can’t stop laughing.
I can see public reaction going either way. Some people will freak out about open carry no matter what and it will win others over. The truth is that people form opinions on things to a large extent based on what they see. I can only wonder if the uninformed will begin to form a positive association with firearms ownership after they see lots of happy (and well behaved) families out in public carrying openly.
So why do we debate about this endlessly? Why doesn’t someone approach this like a large corporation, study it, and determine the best course of action for general public acceptance of firearms ownership?
Because gun owners are a minority and only a tiny (but vocal) faction of that minority supports (or even thinks about) open carry.
Gun owners are not a minority. They’re almost half the adult population of the country. As for you and your fellow self-flagellating gun owners? That’s your own psychological issue to hate your own chosen hobby / lifestyle, not anyone else’s.
It was the Open Carry movement in Wisconsin (where open carry was legal but OCers were persecuted) that pushed the state to finally legalize concealed carry. And while certain morons will go all “eek, a gun!” over open carry in states where it’s legal, most people will accept it.
It might take a few lawsuits to smack an overzealous LEO or two for screwing with people’s legal rights — just like it did in Madison, WI, Philadelphia, PA and Las Vegas, NV — but so what? Cops who don’t know their own laws deserve to get law-smacked.
Open carry should be legal everywhere, so people can choose to exercise their rights in the manner that’s appropriate for them. Open carry and concealed carry are both worthy.
The fact that some states don’t allow either is an issue. Honestly OC would probably stop a lot of crime from happening in the first place.
I really have no problem with OC, but it seems the big city folk usually freak out about guns, rural and small town areas would mostly care less. Where the gun movement has mostly lost the battle is the urban centers, schools in that area really need shooting sports versus the gang bangers having all the guns. Of course , one reason only the goblins have the guns, is that MAIG minded morons have made things rather tough for urban dwellers to have and carry firearms.
Pathetic connection.
I really have no problem with OC, but it seems the big city folk usually freak out about guns, rural and small town areas would mostly care less. Where the gun movement has mostly lost the battle is the urban centers, schools in that area really need shooting sports versus the gang bangers having all the guns. Of course , one reason only the goblins have the guns, is that MAIG minded morons have made things rather tough for urban dwellers to have and carry firearms.
Every once in a while you’ll see people carrying openly in New Mexico, free people acting free. But for my part, I prefer concealed carry, because I prefer to keep ’em guessing.
I understand that some of you bros are too pussy to open carry. Not everyone has a big enough ball sack to do it and that’s cool, but please don’t knock me for OCing just because you’re scared. Just say “Hey Bob I’m a pussy. I have small balls and I’m just going to tuck my Glock into my waistband, and let Gaston massage my weiner, if that’s Ok with you”. That would be fine with me. Just be honest about it. Once upon a time Open Carry was the norm and didn’t even draw the slightest glance from the general public. If my gun makes you afraid then you know where the door is.
Your obsession with ball sacks and massaging weiners gives me pause more than the fact that you carry a gun, though I must admit it’s running a close second…..
I just…I mean…wow. Da fuq did I just read? Bob, your heart is in the right place, but you’re not going to win many converts with that screed.
My, oh my. Considering the low-level heat of the stuff I’ve been censored for in the past, I’m gonna have to say that the moderator was asleep at the switch for the whole length of this thread.
I think you “open carry” guys will accomplish nothing except getting more restrictive gun laws in place.
IMHO, Bob pretty much sums up the reason that open carry guys like to make waves by showing off their guns in pubic. In his own words, “not everyone has a big enough ball sack to do it.” So what Bob is really saying that he derives a feeling of manhood by open carrying, and that doing so helps distinguish him from all the other gun guys who are, in his opinion, mere “pussies” because they only carry concealed.
Hey, I got balls. In fact, my left one is bigger than the other two.
Have openly gay men done nothing but get more restrictive Anti-homosexuality laws in place. No, they haven’t. They made homosexuality an accepted practice throughout the nation. In fact it is now so widely accepted that even those who oppose it are forced to do so via proxy arguments.
The opposition to firearms is based solely on fear. This fear is based on ignorance. An ignorance designed by men like Eric Holder for the express purpose of denying us our rights.
The only way to fight ignorance is through exposure and education.
Right, that is why gay marriage has been banned throughout the south. Or why Baptist churches in Houston are so accepting of Houston’s gay mayor. People are accepting of homosexuality, but as a society we are far from accepting it as a legal standard. When people stop asking them to have “civil unions” instead of marriages, and when gay couples can have the same legal protection and tax incentives then your comparison has some weight. When the laws change in favor of homosexuality then you can use the open carry argument. I mean in the last decade, Texas and other southern states made sodomy legal.
Your argument could be m ade for ccw permits and I would accept that, but not for open carry. This has been a debatable congressional issue for 140+ years in America. It has far more legal precedent than gay laws.
My point is that the tactic is working. Are they treated the same as heterosexuals everywhere. No, but they are making excellent progress throughout the areas where they are not and it is likely that Homosexuals will have the same marriage rights as everyone else with our lifetime. The process of exposing, then educating has worked for blacks, worked for women and is working for gays. It will work for us to.
Key word is exposure. If you conceal your weapon then it means there are only a few ways it will be exposed to. Unless you go around advertizing the fact that you are packing, in which case concealing it is pointless. Not only that, the fact that you are concealing it creates the impression that it is illegal and therefore reenforces the meme that guns are only carried by police and criminals.
If one the other hand you carry openly you are essentially saying “I have nothing to hide”. Not only that but by simply going about your business you teach people that gun owners are regular people just like everyone else. You create a positive image of guns. Something most people will never see.
No, Joe. Bob’s point was that those who own guns and think they should be hidden in shame are cowards and do harm to the 2nd Amendment by telling everyone (gun owner and non-gun owner alike) that guns are scary and should be kept hidden.
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