“Why are gun owners permitted to compel other taxpayers to bear the costs of their choices? I don’t own a gun, but my property taxes will be increased if Baltimore County Public Schools installs metal detectors and wastes money trying to train teachers to spot which kid is going to crack up next and shoot someone. Why should I be paying for this? I expect gun owners to take financial and personal responsibility for the consequences of their choices — even as they abide by our gun laws. People who are committed to easy access to gun ownership should pay all the costs that are a consequence of it. If you own a gun, you should pay every additional penny associated with equipping our schools with metal detectors, more police, or any other specialized equipment or staff necessitated by widespread gun availability.” – Lori K. Brown

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94 COMMENTS

  1. I know…. and why in the world would consumers of cigarettes expect me to contribute to cancer research? And don’t even get me started on Big Mac consumers…. lousy mooching SOBs……

    And you kids get the hell off my lawn!

  3. ““Why are PUBLIC SCHOOL SUPPORTERS permitted to compel other taxpayers to bear the costs of their choices? I don’t SEND MY KIDS TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS, but my property taxes will be increased if Baltimore County Public Schools installs teachers WHO PRODUCE THE kids THAT ARE going to crack up next and shoot someone. Why should I be paying for this? I expect PUBLIC SCHOOL SUPPORTERS to take financial and personal responsibility for the consequences of their choices — even as they USE PUBLIC SCHOOLS. People who are committed to PUBLIC SCHOOLS should pay all the costs that are a consequence of it. If you SUPPORT PUBLIC SCHOOLS, you should pay every additional penny associated with KIDS THAT BECOME VIOLENT — metal detectors, more police, or any other specialized equipment or staff necessitated by widespread UNEMPLOYABLE KIDS COMING OUT OF DANGEROUS PUBLIC SCHOOLS.”

    There. I agree wholeheartedly. All I did was to substitute the ACTUAL CAUSE of the problem…

    • You can put the blame also on this “No Child Left Behind” crap that mandates these tests in which no school wishes to fail, so the whole education system adjusts from teaching students to be able to solve problems on their own, even new ones, to those who can only solve the problems in which the competency exams will ask.

      There are SOME good teachers out there, but their hands are tied by the curriculum they are forced to teach. Then, there are those lousy ones that only think of a paycheck and the long summer vacation they’ll get.

    • LMAO good fix!
      Even though we might not use them for our kids we all help support them. I in fact do send my kids to public school. We are also very critical about our teachers performance and how well the student body as a whole is doing.
      To that end, there is something wrong when you need to have metal detectors in schools. Kids can’t carry legally in the US, so this is a crime issue, not a gun issue. Also why does a kid feel the need to bring a gun to school in the first place? I would take a seriously long look at your community first.

  4. Paying for the poor choices other people make is a long established tradition in America.

    We might do well to ask the same question, only a little differently: Why should folks willing to take responsibility for their own protection have to go defenseless because some choose fear of guns over self-reliance? Why should so many children have to go to school in fear just because of the illogical conclusions of a few?

  5. BLUF: Suck it up, buttercup!

    Another example of a citizen who simply does not understand the Constitution. I suppose it is too much to hope her children will graduated school with an complete understanding of our Constitution.

  6. That made my head hurt. Let me see if I can reword this.

    “Why are parents permitted to compel other taxpayers to bear the costs of their choices? I don’t have any children, but my property taxes will be higher if cities and counties keep opening more public schools and waste money trying to train teachers to actually teach. Why should I be paying for this? I expect parents to take financial and personal responsibility for the consequences of their choices — even as they abide by our civil laws. People who are committed to easy access to having education for children should pay all the costs that are a consequence of it. If you have a child, you should pay every additional penny associated with equipping and running schools with paper, computers, electricity, text books, or any other specialized equipment or staff necessitated by widespread parenting.”

    Why don’t we extend this argument to Welfare, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc? (sorry I repeated myself their several times). I could go on and on with even more absurd examples, but those of you with functioning brains get the point.

  8. If we’re going to go that route, why don’t people who belong to groups which are statistically much more likely to commit gun crime pay for the increased security?

    That’s right, blacks, Latinos, and Arabs—pony up the cash for metal detectors, increased police manpower, and the TSA.

    Pretty ridiculous when it’s put that way, right?

  9. Dear Lori K. Brown

    Because we are not the ones who think guns are a problem, you are. If we had our way schools would teach gun safety, marksmanship, proper care and handling, etc. But you want to spend time teaching how to use a condom and that guns are bad. Unfortunately all of us bear the burden of your views.

    Sincerely,

  10. Ok, I’ll pay for all that extra stuff she complains about, but only as long as the extra cops only protect gun owners, as long as those teachers only teach and protect the children of gun owners, and all the extra equipment goes to protect only gun owners and their children.

    Wow…Just wow, people pay taxes not for individual protections, but for overall protection of their society. If we could all pick and choose which services we paid taxes for, nothing would ever work in this country (even though government programs rarely work anyways).

    • Just wow, people pay taxes not for individual protections, but for overall protection of their society.

      Huh, I thought most people only paid taxes because government thugs will smash down their door and drag them to jail if they didn’t pay them.

  12. Saying that lawful gun owners somehow need to “pay” for the cost of protecting Baltimore Public Dropout Factories eerrr Schools is like saying that every car owner should pay for the costs associated with DUI inforcment; or that Condom makers should be taxed to pay for rape hotlines…

    I better shut up though; I will give the “progressives” ideas…

    • By the way comments are OPEN on the article; every one of us should head over there and help these bayside fools see the error of their ways.

  13. “Why are parents permitted to compel other taxpayers to bear the costs of their choices? I don’t have children, but my property taxes will be increased if Baltimore County Public Schools installs metal detectors and wastes money trying to train teachers to spot which kid is going to crack up next and shoot someone. Why should I be paying for this? I expect parents to take financial and personal responsibility for the consequences of their choices — even as they abide by our childcare laws. People who are committed to easy access to having children should pay all the costs that are a consequence of it.

    Maybe if people did a better job of raising their precious snowflakes, this would be less of a problem.

  14. Maybe Lori should try looking into a big problem called “The Fed” when concerned about increased tax, instead of firearms.

  15. Well I don’t like bearing the tax burden for a lot of things like liberal social policies but it seems I don’t have a choice in the matter.

  16. I would post, but for some reason I get an error everytime I try to log into their page.

    “Bullying happens everyday in the school system and a majority of the time, it is verbal abuse. When you hear about all of these kids that go “off the deep end”, they were most likely ridiculed or made fun of and abused by another kid using their right to free speech. So, should we devise a method of taxing the parents of the children who say mean things to other kids because that may cause the unstable kids to “lose it.”
    I am just curious as to how far you are willing to go to stop the violence?”

  17. Hey, we’re preaching to the choir here. Don’t forget to leave a comment on the Baltimore Sun website.

    • Won’t let me register to leave a comment. Apparently they don’t like opposing view points. I have no kids in the school system, and yet I have to pay taxes for the school. Using her logic, the parents of sick kids should shoulder the cost of the school nurse, her office and supplies. And why should all of us that eat breakfast at home have to share the burden of feeding the kids that eat the free breakfast at school. And her mentioning that the car and swimming pool both have additional costs in insurance, so additional fees on firearms is ok, is totally bogus. No where in the Constitution does it say I have a right to drive a car and/or own a pool and that the right for either can’t be infringed. I also don’t recall reading in the Constitution that the public had to provide and pay for schools for the education of her kids. She should be happy that the cost is spread out on the whole population.

  18. I’ll note that in the FBI’s 2010 statistics Baltimore is #3 for murders per capita, and #5 for violent crime.

    So Baltimore, whatever you’re doing, it’s time to try something new.

  19. But I’m sure that Lori has no problem with the TSA groping and fondling women and children. After all, they’re making us safer, aren’t they?

  20. People DIE due to being disarmed due to restrictions on carrying a firearm for defense. I expect gun grabbers to take financial and personal responsibility for the consequences of their laws. If my wife gets raped or murdered coming home from work I would like to sue all the gun grabbers and have them arrested for having a hand in the crime.

  22. Along with metal detectors they ought to reinstall the Ten Commandments and prayer into America’s public school systems. That’s all my generation used to keep kids from killing one another. (This worked; it wasn’t broken; so, ‘Why’ did the government suddenly decide to fix it because, now, it’s really broken?)

      • First amendment.” Congress shall make no laws… ” This is being abused to shut down religion. It is making laws in violation when it says, John Doe can’t have prayers in schools because Mr Atheist is offended over the conversation/worship of a being he refuses to believe exists, YET allows those who practice other religions (Wicca, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, etc) to have a free pass on theirs. Whenever you legally demand religious practices to be stopped, you are in essence promoting ALL the others. (I’d include atheism in this, however, my old college “religion” instructor would not recognize it as such, despite how religiously atheists hold to their God doesn’t exist in any form views.)

        • It is making laws in violation when it says, John Doe can’t have prayers in schools because Mr Atheist is offended over the conversation/worship of a being he refuses to believe exists, YET allows those who practice other religions (Wicca, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, etc) to have a free pass on theirs.

          Pure BS. Students of all religions can and do pray in schools. They also can and do form religious student clubs, such as “Meet Me At The Flagpole” groups. What’s illegal is for anyone to use the power of the state to promote their religion, and in the U.S. that’s pretty much exclusively the province of Christians. It’s ridiculous to suggest that stopping the illegal promotion of Christianity promotes all other religions. For that to be true you’d have to have coaches leading Taoist prayers before football games, monuments to the Eightfold Path in the schoolyard, and start holding public school graduation ceremonies in synagogues.

        • Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

          Yet, Christianity is the most often singled out religion for such bans/”can’t do’s”. Most students that do, either do it on an individual level, or at a school that hasn’t banned such organizations.

          May 6, 2011 (TheBlaze dot com) Students at New York’s Hicksville High School were prevented from starting a Christian club by the school principal who allegedly said, “I don’t want any of these Christian clubs at my school.”

          Vanderbilt University has decided that Christian student groups that hold traditional Christian religious views are not welcome on campus. They will no longer be recognized as valid student organizations…. yet The Muslim Student Association isn’t banned.

          Despite the following:
          “When Milford denied the Good News Club access to the school’s limited public forum on the ground that the club was religious in nature, it discriminated against the club because of its religious viewpoint in violation of the free-speech clause of the First Amendment,” Justice Clarence Thomas wrote for the majority – The Good News Club v. Milford Central Schools, 99-2036. (Argued February 28, 2001-Decided June 11,2001)

          Dig further and see the truth.

    • Along with metal detectors they ought to reinstall the Ten Commandments and prayer into America’s public school systems. That’s all my generation used to keep kids from killing one another.

      I went to a Catholic elementary school, we still had bullies and fights. Had I still gone there in high school, i’m sure there would have been guns as well. The only difference between that and public school, as I actually learned stuff at the Catholic school.

      Its kind of funny though, besides paying tutition, they would make the parents pay more if they didnt donate during church.

  24. “I don’t own a gun, but my property taxes will be increased if Baltimore County Public Schools installs metal detectors and wastes money trying to train teachers to spot which kid is going to crack up next and shoot someone. Why should I be paying for this?”

    Yeah! Your kid’s life is probably not worth some more taxes.

  25. How about everyone who doesn’t own a gun should pay for the hospital/funeral expenses of every home invasion/mugging/assault victim who suffered while in disarmed states and cities?

    Ugh, I hate waking up just to be reminded of how utterly stupid some people can be. Oh, here’s another one. How about anyone who owns a liquor bottle should pay for the police needed to stop drunk drivers?

  26. Lori, you have to pay the costs of my gun ownership for the same reason that I have to pay the costs of remedial education for your idiot children.

    • I feel more sorry for the man who fathered her children . . . . I am sure they are not a source of pride for him

  27. Interesting idea about a group of people taking personal financial responsibility for how thier actions and choices effects others; how about a law that if a person graduates after 13 years of schooling without the minimum level of understanding of reading, writing and arithmetic; that the teachers involved in that students instruction from K-12 grade, pay back the money wasted on that students supposed “education” out of thier own paycheck.
    I believe we would see a rapid turn around in the current state of uneducation going on in our country.

    • Because that wouldn’t change a damn thing. Yes, there are teachers who don’t care and would, ah, “benefit” from that motivation, but the vast majority of the problem has been with administrations who force policies of teaching to the state tests (which, incidentally, have punishment programs like the ones you propose, just at the district level), overloading classrooms, and limiting teacher flexibility in their methods.

      Besides that, who’s to say that a problem student (or hell, even an administrator with a grudge) wouldn’t abuse that system to get back at teachers he just didn’t like?

      Unintended consequences. Lori Brown doesn’t get them. Neither do you.

      • That’s a load of crap.

        “Teaching to the test” Really? Our schools were bastions of enlightenment prior to “No Child Left Behind”? Your premise is laughable; No Child Left Behind was passed because the schools were already failing the students. “Teaching to the test” is just the newest excuse for the massive failure that is our public schools.

        “Overloading classes”? The difference between a student who goes to a class with 25 students and one who goes to a class with 30 students is statistically indiscernable. Until you get down to almost 1 to 1 teaching, the gains are miniscule.

        “Limiting teacher flexibility”? Again, this is the result of “teacher flexibility” leading to not teaching. Our teachers have proved themselves to be less than competent in designing courses of study. Likely this has to do with their education degrees which teach them the newest fad in “Education” rather than tried and tested (as in, these educational theories never get tested on small subsets before being applied wholesale, blindly) methods that have worked before.

        Now, if you will point to the sheer number of administrators being a significant part of the increased cost of “education”, you would be correct. The others are just excuses for the incompetence of a large portion of “teachers”

        • Excuse or not, they only teach to the tests now. They’re too afraid to do anything else for fear of federal funding cuts. So, even if they wanted to fix things properly, they have to teach to the tests so the test scores don’t fall too low.

          Does that mean all teachers/school districts have that as their only problem? No. Teachers who are burned out, those who want the long vacation times, those who just want to screw your kids up, etc exist, as well as in the administration. There’s no easy way to get rid of them because there is no real incentive to do so and to bring in fresh teachers who actually care about your child’s education.

          BTW: Those administrators and teachers who actually care about the students and their future, Kudos to you.

        • Teaching for a test is a bullshit claim. Even before no child left behind, teachers generaly did not develop curriculums. They simply read from a teachers edition of the text book, and still do today. They are glorified day care workers, who on average make $70k /yr (in Chicago) working 9 months a year, with great benefits, a pension and a union. I sure made the wrong career choice getting in to computers.

        • The median teacher pay in the US *by years of experience can be found here (average for each position seems to hover near the 5-9 year experience mark)

          According to that, Chicago either has some really old teachers (one foot in the grave) or considerably above average pay. Also Chicago schools run year-round (when they’re not on strike as they had recently been.)

          Schools always in recent years have had a curriculum, usually spelled out by the NEA (or other federal education agency) or at the State level. They’ve usually just had freedom on how to carry it out. I’m not saying that there haven’t been many cases of “here’s the curriculum, here’s the books….. ummm… what does the book say…. Okay, we’ll do that.” Those are the weaker teachers.

          BTW: do you have any children currently in public K-12 schools? I do.

        • For grades 5 – 12 I attended public schools, I also spend 4 years working at District 202 in Illinois and another year for Chicago Public Schools. I can tell you, I have never had nor met a good teacher. My end of year project for english class my senior year of high school was to write a 4 page report on the book Johnny Termain, which on the back said for grades 4 and up. The only time I was ever taught anything there, was from support staff, not teachers.

          If you care about your kids, you should ideally home school them, or at the very least put them in private schools.

          The site you linked has seriously flawed data, it said the average teacher salary in Chicago was 45k, Chicago Public Schools says 76k, which does not include benefits either:
          http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/how-much-do-chicago-public-school-teachers-make/

        • The article also mentions that their union says the average salary is $71k not including benefits, eitherway a lot more than PayScale claims. And yes we have summer school, but it is optional, few children enroll, the teachers don’t have to work it, and if they do they get paid more. Remember, that 71k-76k is the average salary, not the top 25% or 10% which would be the people who work summer school or have 1 foot in the grave.

        • That CPS website also says the following on their recruiting page:

          Chicago’s public schools are considered by many to be a model for successful urban school reform. Chicago Public Schools offer a teaching environment that allows growth, encourages innovation, supports teamwork and fosters the belief that all students, given a positive experience, can learn.

          Chicago Public Schools offer:

          Support for new teachers

          Safe places to work
          A school culture that expects success
          Better buildings for improved learning

          the CPS stats page also says the AVERAGE (not median, there IS a serious difference in how they are determined) pay is -> Teachers: $74,839

          Seems like different source can’t agree even with the same method. Maybe this does have to deal with the benefits packages, I dunno. But median and average (means) are not necessarily the same thing, as this case apparently shows. (I admit I failed to remember that part when I compared “apples and oranges” as equals)

        • the CPS stats page also says the AVERAGE (not median, there IS a serious difference in how they are determined)

          Not nessecarily, there are 3 types of averages, mean, mode and median; CPS didnt specify so it very well may be median. And even assuming the median was that far off from 70-75k, the unions would have brought it up during the recent strike, but they didnt, they claimed the average (which type was also unstated) was 71k. If it was anywhere near 45k, it would have been all over the news.

          Chicago’s public schools are considered by many to be a model for successful urban school reform.

          Really? By who? Their PR department?

          fosters the belief that all students, given a positive experience, can learn… A school culture that expects success

          Which is why the graduation rate is only ~60%? And only 21% of 8th graders read at grade level?
          http://cnsnews.com/news/article/only-21-percent-chicago-public-school-8th-graders-are-proficient-reading

          Safe places to work

          Which is why there are armed cops and numerous metal detectors in all schools?

  30. “Why are gun owners permitted to compel other taxpayers to bear the costs of their choices?”

    Lori K. Brown,

    Why are parents permitted to compel other taxpayers to bear the costs of educating the parent’s children? Why am I compelled to bear the costs of paying for the health care of others who abuse their bodies and/or don’t have coverage? Why should other taxpayers (than the actual parents) pay for the costs of police, social, legal services, and prison operations to house juvenile criminals? Time to grow up Lori.

  31. I think we should send her the web link to this TTAG story and let yher see how stupid she really is to people

    “Lori K. Brown, a web developer and Baltimore County school parent, lives in Catonsville. Her email is [email protected].”

    • Already did. Here was her response to me:

      “It’s fascinating to see that your blog’s readers can’t distinguish the difference between having children and owning firearms. Thanks for the note.”

      Maybe you guys will understand it, because I surely don’t. And I’m not sure where she got the idea that it was my blog.

      • Typical anti. Wiggle, obfuscate and deflect when called out for your stupidity. Good luck with that MENSA member, Maryland.

      • Lori’s reaction was an expression of her inability to have a mature, rational, open and honest dialogue on guns and her statements. Unfortunately, women like Lori vote (and drive).

        Lori can’t distinguish between law abiding citizens and criminals.

  32. Hey, the guns have nothing to do with it. They’ll still want metal detectors to keep the kids from bringing knives and shanks in gang populated schools. They’ll think of any reason they need to put up those detectors, and hey, those plastic spoons, kids, if you get mad at someone you can always break the head of it on the table and jam it in someone’s throat, easy and quick. ( But seriously) you can’t really stop the ones that will go off. They will eventually, and no help will stop it. The ones that really will do it, you will never spot, they will be quiet and sweet, bypass all security and the person they’re after won’t have a chance. We shouldn’t raise taxes to prevent violence, it’s always going to happen. Violence prevention must start in the house, and most don’t even make it that far in the schools that really have these sort of issues.

    • The kids can easily create shanks out of non-metallic items… wood, plastic, stone… as you pointed out with the plastic silverware illustration.

      The problem isn’t guns, its the attitude of everyone at school from admin to student.

      • Even if you manage to disarm everyone, people will still get hurt. I’ve seen kids throw desks at teachers, and had one teacher show me scars where she had been stabbed in the arm by a student with a pair of scissors.

  33. The biggest single reason for the violence among school kids is that today most are coming from single-parent homes many of which are dysfunctional lacking morals and structure. A positive father figure in the lives of kids is the key ingredient that is often missing. While it is the parents who have to take much of the responsibility for their children’s behavior the solution lies more in recognizing the family-structure weaknesses and moral failures of modern society.

    • I will conditionally agree, Aharon. I would only add that a positive mother figure is also lacking. A woman who is more interested in getting high/getting ahead than her child(ren)’s well-being is not a mother, IMHO. This is not meant to disparage the single mother who works her a $ $ off to provide for her kids. I’m talking about the inner-city, strung-out and hung-out chick who expects the system to do the parenting for her.

      • I agree with you 100%. A positive mother in kids lives is vital too. Sadly, many modern women lack maternal skills. There are of course some great single moms too. In modern America, the majority of kids now live with one parent and that usually is the mother whether she deserves the kids and that once-honorable title or not.

        I was also referring to the studies that kids lacking dads in their lives have a higher incidence of dropping out of school, doing drugs, joining gangs, girls getting pregnant, catching STDs, having lower self esteem, issues with anger, depression, etc. 85% of the men in prison for a 2nd violent offense did not grow up with a father. Men and fathers are way under-appreciated: it isn’t surprising with the past 40 years of anti-male laws, programs, and propaganda.

  34. Abraham Lincoln stated with the Civil War “… this nation, under God, shall possess a new birth of freedomand that federal government from the men and women, by persons, for your men and women, shall not perish with the earth.”

  35. The positive father figure is the best plan, but sadly, that doesn’t happen as often as it should. Even 50 years ago there were many children raised by one parent/or parent & grandparent.
    Just go back in history and we see that is was prevalent then also. It does take a village, but that just means that the child(and mother) have to comform to community standards. While many boys do not get to be in the boy scouts, little league, the YMCA or even school sports or band, they do need to learn how to live in society. Allowing them to run with other kids(unchecked) like themselves just promotes gangs. If we want to stop it, it will take volunteers to help manage the teams and teach them about life. The truth is we don’t want the competition against our own children, who we have tried to raise properly.

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