“If politicians destroy the economic system with too much debt and too much dependency, firearms will be the first and last line of defense against those who would plunder and pillage.” – Daniel J. Mitchell, Senior fellow at the Cato Institute, European Economic Crisis Highlights an Increasingly Important Reason to Oppose Gun Control.
Technically, I suppose that’s true. But only because firearms (or other weapons) are *always* the first and last line of defense against those who would plunder and pillage. Captain obvious strikes again. All this is to say that you can’t count on the police. What else is new?
If the system implodes, we’ll figure out a plan. It might not be a *good* plan, but it won’t involve rampaging over the countryside looking for brains.
Keep calm and carry on.
If the system collapses you can count on the fact that you’ll have to defend yourself from the police, such as happened during Katrina.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings
I wouldn’t carry a gun if I thought that bad things didn’t happen. But an economic collapse won’t lead to a Hobbesian “war of all against all”.
Imaginary dollars and unsound fiscal policies aren’t powerful enough to bring about the end of the world. I’m not saying that things can’t or won’t get worse, but if a collapse comes, we’ll dust ourselves off and go back to doing business with our neighbors. Ordinary people won’t turn into ravening animals overnight no matter what the stock market does.
Do what business with our neighbors? Even Mexico is a “services” based economy (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35749.htm). If the US economy collapses, Mexico and Canada will go with it. Thats also ignoring their current state of civil war, and what the cartels might do should they take power. What would happen to racial tensions in the US if the cartels took power tried to reclaim Mexican territory lost in wars long ago?
A collapse of the dollar could easily bring about an end of the world scenario. The Treaty of Versailles forced reparations up on the Weimar government of Germany forcing it to go in to a hyper inflation scenario. The resulting economic collapse made it easy for the Nazi’s to take power and start WW2. WW3 would be different because everyone now has nukes.
Good points. Anything’s possible, I suppose.
The ‘lone ranger’ mentality worries me, though. I would think good relationships with the neighbors -‘gunnies’ or not- is a better investment than the ability to reach out and touch someone at a thousand yards.
Brazen statement.
I can see society re-organizing after a collapse.
Maybe the Government will collapse.
Of course, after the 1929 Stock Market Collapse, the USA elected Herr Roosevelt.
Germany elected Herr Hitler.
The thing that is different today, is that there are more people “receiving” benefits from the government than there are “contributing” to it. With economic collapse, the checks will stop and large scale rioting, looting and lawlessness will commence in virtually all of the major metropolitan population centers.
Civil authority will be completely overwhelmed and will abandon the the “hot” zones just they did in LA during the RK riots, in New Orleans after Katrina etc. If you are in or close to these areas you will surely come under attack assuming you have something the rioters want or need such as food and water. If its winter, they will come for your heat as well.
If you haven’t “bugged out” you had better be well provisioned and well armed. My rule of thumb is to have the ability to engage targets out to 1,000 yards (two high end scoped .308 rifles), intermediate range 300 yards or so (two AR style rifles) and close range (several handguns and tactical shotguns) with at least 5,000 rounds of ammo for each gun you own.
Lastly, you should organize with the “gunnies” around you to and have a way to stay in contact with them when the phones go quiet.
The ratio of contributors to recipients to benefits doesnt matter. If you want to even try to make a argument like that, it is supposed to be the ratio of contributed funds to disbursed funds which is entirely different. But that isnt important either because the imbalance is covered by debt, just as all other government operations are, and the federal defect is its own separate argument. At the end of the day any dollar contributed to the government will ultimately be spent, your just crying because the government isnt giving that dollar to something you care about. But keep on voting these guys in.
Hmmmm, I’m sure its me but you seem to have missed the point of my post, again! The ratio is important because with economic collapse the g checks will stop leaving huge chunks of society with no means to buy essentials. Thus creating a “perfect storm” of anarchy.
Also, I wasn’t crying about anything. You have an odd way of expressing yourself that is at once inaccurate and annoying.
Please put more than 2 seconds of thought in to your posts.
That ratio is not relevant. In the event of a economic collapse, the present number of contributors would for the most part become unemployed and have no way to buy essentials either. Do you really think there would not be massive unemployment in a economic collapse?
Annoying is a mall ninja enumerating what you need in a shtf situation. You talk about the LA riots and then go on to say that we all need the “ability to engage targets out to 1,000 yards (two high end scoped .308 rifles)”, along with a plethora of other guns. Really?
How does engaging targets at 1000 yards have any bearing on self defense in the setting you describe? Also how are you going to do it with 308 when almost all loads will transition before 1000 yards? Ever hit a silhouette at 1000 yards with 308? Ever tried? Too many experts need to grow up and have some humility. When the shit goes down it won’t be an action movie.
We’re always 9 meals from anarchy, and everyone is in the game if it goes down bad enough. Ratios won’t matter, only having enough nuts.
It won’t go full Hobbes anymore than you’ll defend yourself at 1000 yards with 308 Win. The big threat is the politics and state actions that follow such a collapse.
Stay strapped, but most importantly have enough nuts.
Yes, I’ve engaged targets at 1,100 yards with a .308 very effectively.
“If Europe does collapse, which people do you think will be in better shape to preserve civilization, the well-armed Swiss or the disarmed Brits?”
Red herring. Their post-collapse welfare will more closely reflect their disparate levels of social inequality, not their gun ownership.
Hardly. Even a society of people with equal incomes will still have a large number of thieves and murderers once the existing society collapses. You’re forgetting that once the economy collapses, there IS no such thing as inequality of income.
I think a stereotypical poor person, being fat and lazy, will be of little threat. Trigger happy neighborhood watches or police are what scare me. Tribal violence could result…
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