“This newspaper’s concern with open carry is more about common sense. Two words come to mind, and neither is positive. One is intimidation. The other is provocation. A gun hidden away intimidates no one, but that was never the point, was it? The point was the ability, within the law, to protect oneself or one’s family — not to convince someone else how tough or dangerous one might be because, well, Check out this Glock on my hip! A gun hidden away also provokes no one. Unseen, it’s not a tempting target for someone of criminal intent or unstable mind to grab and use in a way a responsible, law-abiding Texas gun owner would never intend. Texas’ gun laws are effective as they are. The Legislature would be wise to steer clear of open carry.” Editorial: Texas’ gun laws work; open carry wouldn’t [via dallasnews.com]
I love how this idiot “journalist” is incapable of looking at the 40-something other states that allow open carry and – SURPRISE – the streets there aren’t covered in blood.
This is our nations biggest problem – the fact that our news went from being about reporting the facts and letting readers / listeners / viewers make their own conclusions to biased people telling readers / listeners / viewers what to think.
+1000
our news went from being about reporting the facts
Totenglocke, the news was never about the truth. William Randolph Hearst wouldn’t have known the truth if it bit him on the a$$, nor would he have cared. The same can be said of any “journalist” who ever lived.
You know what else I find intimating? Big bald guys with tattoos who ride Harley’s.
You know, you’;re sitting in a coffee shop quietly writing poetry no one else understands, and then a big bald guys with tattoos walks in and suddenly everyone in the place feels like he’s going to kidnap them or something.
I even watched this documentary called “Sons of Anarchy” which totally exposes how these guys are all crazy violent criminals.
Now I’ve only taken the time to take to a few of them, and they usually end up being pretty nice buys. But, I’m squeamish and easily frightened by people who look like they could hurt me, so I think we should ban big bald guys with tattoos who ride Harley’s.
Because it’s not your rights but my irrational fears that really matter.
Right you are. I am deeply and irrationally intimidated by police officers who “open carry” their firearms, plus all of their other intimidating stuff – handcuffs, billy clubs, etc. They should all be required to go around unarmed, like the British bobbies, so I can FEEL better when I see a police officer.
That is every bit as rational as the Dallas News editorial.
Welcome to government controlled information disemination.
Yea the media is so biased against whatever the government or their monetary contributors are afraid of or dislike that the truth hasn’t just fallen by the wayside,it has been kicked completely out of Low Earth Orbit.!!!
That being said I am still kind of iffy on open carry anyways. I can see pro’s and con’s to it. Just haven’t decided yet.
Still trying to get our Senators to make Ar a Castle Law and Stand Your Ground State.
An addition to make this oped awesome.
“If you don’t open carry you can’t provoke member of the
anti-gun movement to call police every time they see a
firearm. This not only would free up police resources, but
remove the intimidation factor of possibly having to defend
your constitutional rights in front of law enforcement or
a judge.”
I agree with the OpEd, at the least from a purely tactical standpoint. I haven’t heard any argument from pro-open carry that makes it seem like a better option than concealed carry.
From a gun rights perspective, should open carry be legal? Probably, but I certainly would never choose to do it.
I haven’t heard any argument from pro-open carry that makes it seem like a better option than concealed carry.
It’s a hell of a lot faster to draw and you can carry a larger gun (usually with a higher capacity as well).
“Faster to draw” is arguable, totally depends on the skill of the person as well as the holster/weapon to use.
Larger gun with more capacity, also depends, but I’ll give you that one.
Open carry says “Look at me, I have a gun.” Assuming this is a deterrent and not making you a bigger target is a mistake IMO. The criminals in question might already be armed, and might want your gun too. Concealed carry offers the same protection, but also offers a unique tactical advantage while avoiding panicing the public. How is concealed simply not a better option?
Strangely, police carry openly and I don’t see armed bad guys lunging to grab the PoPos’ guns off of them. Hmmm…
Wait, you say, police are better trained at shooting and tactical awareness. And your stats for that would be what?
And besides, we have open-carry states (most of them, in fact). Do we see frequent (any) accounts of bad guys snatching guns off open carriers? [Answer: no]. Do we see bad guys attacking concealed carriers because they assume the citizen is unarmed? [Answer: hell, yes].
S.A., i read a stat somewhere that about one quarter of the cops that are shot to death every year are shot with thier own guns. And that’s open carry with a badge and a radio to back it up.
I mostly agree with you, Tim. While I think OC should be perfectly legal, I also think it’s tactically foolish and gives badguys advanced warning of who they need to neutralize before committing acts of badness.
Except that that’s never the case.
Sure, it is better not to carry openly, but I don’t like the way I have to hide the weapon so thoroughly upon pain of prosecution. I’d much rather have the option so I don’t have to worry so much about printing or otherwise being discovered. I’d like the choice of being open or concealed to be my choice, not some legislator’s.
Me, I doubt I’d open carry but not having to worry about printing on a larger gun or a high-but-OWB holster would be nice.
I can appreciate that sentiment. I would probably never choose to open-carry in most circumstances – but I want the option. I want to know that if I am boiling away in Texas heat, I can take off my hoodie/shirt/whatever without being in violation of the law. All Constitutional infringement aside, it is a rational choice to have, and the sooner people get used to seeing armed law-abiding citizens, the sooner intimidation and irrational fear will be irrelevant.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that we get legal Open carry in TX. It would make things simpler. Also any State that has “printing” laws should repeal them immediately.. However, in those States where open carry is allowed (hopefully TX someday) there is a fine line:
1) A person who exercises their right to open carry during times of lawlessness, danger or disaster? Smart and prepared. Exactly the type of scenario where open carry is appropriate.
2) A person who open carries during regular, day to day life for any reason besides activism? Douche bag.
You might be completely within your rights to do it, and I will fight until I am blue in the face for you to either get or keep that right. It is tyranny to take away open carry from the people or to hold it back from them. Something about the BEARING part of the second ammendment.
But… you open carry fanatics running around the supermarket open carrying because it is a faster draw and you can carry a full size pistol? A mightier feat of douchebaggery I have seldom seen. And I don’t give a sh1t how many of you open carry fan girls I offend. It’s grand standing, smacks of inadequacy, exposes your weapon to snatch threats that a properly concealed pistol wouldn’t usually face and it makes people who aren’t members of the firearms community uncomfortable. Which alienates some of them into being anti-gun. Great job, you have the right to do that. Still a douche.
Please please please use open carry when it is appropriate to do so. Have to go into a seriously messed up part of town and want to send a clear message to bangers that you’re closed for business? The pros and cons of that can be argued back and forth, but go for it. In the middle of the woods or other similarly rural/wilderness scenario? Check. Doing open-carry activist work? Okay, but actually work to educate and choose the right opportunities to make it effective. Other scenarios that pass the litmus test of reasonableness? Good to go. Open carry away.
But if you’re going to GameStop and you’re wearing a 1911 with light in a drop leg holster (I saw it in PA. Said he was just open carrying for the he11 of it when I asked him) then you are a tool.
Sigh. Now I am prepared for the cult of open carry to tell me what an a$$hole I am.
Hal,
I agree with you completely. We have always had both open and concealed carry here in Washington state. As I recall even conceal carry is relatively new in Texas. What, 15 or 20 years ago? I remember because a man from Washington state was one of the first to use a legal concealed gun to defend himself in Texas and it made national news and of course the local news here, some people saying that CC was leading Texas down the road to perdition. No charges were filed against the man as I recall. I guess the prosecutor thought that a 300 pound Samoan beating a guy sitting in his car was adequate reason to use a gun in self-defense.
About 20 years ago the mayor of Tacoma, Washington was trying to make a name for himself by pointing out that open carry was legal and should be outlawed. This despite the fact I had never seen anyone carrying open and I doubt many people had at that time. See, despite it being legal most people have the manners not to do it. It is only ill-mannered as you call them douches that do such a thing mostly because they have a “look at me” attitude, I have a gun. I have even seen where these douches write with glee how they scared people. Confusing them with ladies or gentlemen would never be a problem. Your term douches is one I normally don’t use but it seems a valid description.
It is common manners not to make others feel uncomfortable and like it or not walking around with a 1911 on one’s leg makes a lot of people uncomfortable, maybe the vast majority of people. I suppose I should say it used to be common manners. Now it seems that people think the world is entirely about them. It is with these people “I have the right to do it therefore I am going to do it and the hell with everyone else.”
Now we have these activists that meet at Starbuck’s coffee shops wearing guns openly. Why? No one has said they couldn’t but they have asinine motto about a right not exercised being taken away or some such stupid thing. The way the right will be taken away will be because of idiots like them. As it stands one isn’t breaking the law if the wind blows a coat up exposing the firearm. If these idiots keep at it they will enact an anti-open carry law.
Fortunately I don’t hear much about them anymore. I suppose they are off doing other things now like playing Civil War soldier or Mountain Man. Kids.
Anyway I don’t think this is a gun rights issue so much as it is a courtesy issue. Douches never care how others feel and there is little that can be done about that. You know “You can lead a whore to culture but you can’t make her think.”
BTW, even though I have has the right to carry since I was 21 I very rarely do, almost never, at least in this country. Seattle is not a dangerous place and it more trouble to carry than it is worth. If someone decides robs me, and personally I don’t know of anyone being robbed on the street in Seattle, well then they can have my $200 or so. It is much cheaper than hiring a lawyer. Open carry? It’s for kids that want to play cowboy.
“you open carry fanatics running around the supermarket open carrying because it is a faster draw and you can carry a full size pistol? A mightier feat of douchebaggery I have seldom seen.”
Just like people who exercise their freedom of religion in public.
OC is also more comfortable, and you don’t have to worry about hiding your rights on pain of persecution… sort of the reverse of what WI used to have – OC only, and if your coat blew over your pistol you were committing a crime.
And it prevents crime, instead of requiring a victim to react to an attack in progress.
“It’s grand standing, smacks of inadequacy”
Projection.
“exposes your weapon to snatch threats”
Except that it happens so rarely as to be statistically zero. I think I’ve read of 2 examples, and one was armed robbery.
Oh, and one feral teen behind someone in line at a store, who didn’t know to keep his paws to himself, but the citizen was aware of his surroundings & nothing bad happened.
“it makes people who aren’t members of the firearms community uncomfortable”
Except for the vast majority who don’t even notice.
I have hidden-camera video of myself OC in various places around Milwaukee, WI (including a bank, restaurant, grocery, and home supply store), and most people simply don’t notice. The ones who do seem to be able to figure out that I’m doing the same thing they are, and go about their business.
I was with a bunch of friends camping in the mountains of New Mexico several years ago. Early Sunday morning, a biker gang was rolling up the road when the call went up in our camp, “To Arms!”. When the biker gang saw 10+ people ready to defend themselves, they turned and went looking for easier prey.
Open carry (and situational awareness) does work.
I never said it didn’t. Your scenario was exactly what open carry is for.
Enough states have open carry and there is no such intimidation issue.
By contrast, California soccer moms found open carry at Starbucks so intimidating that the Legislature outlawed it–even though our (prior) open carry law was open and unloaded! Imagine that, people intimidated by unloaded firearms! The children must not see!
You’re assuming that the typical Californian can tell the difference between loaded & unloaded guns. Thanks, I needed a good laugh.
I have to say the three years I spent living the Bay Area convinced me that most Californians have a heart attack when they see their shadows.
If I was in a Constitutional carry state where I could CC without a permit I would probably do that more often; but in NM I can OC without a permit as a free man practicing a G-d given right or I could go crawling on my hands and feet asking permission of my master to have the privilege of having the convenience of carrying that weapon concealed.
So I chose to be a free man.
Move just a little bit further west ThomasR…… 🙂
Yeah, Arizona is great, but I love NM, this state has been fantastic for me in fulfilling my dreams.
LoL, hands and KNEES,
I have found in the three years of OCing that most of the fears associated with this practice is overblown; except for one or two instances, everybody I’ve encountered in public have been accepting of my OCing, people check me out and then back to eating, talking, studying, whatever; police as well, not one time of any harrassment or confrontation.
Same with being targeted because of having a valuable piece of property on ones belt, no different than when someone goes out wearing a valuable watch, just have good situational awareness.
In the end, it comes down for me that none of the reasons to CC vesus OC is enough to become a servant to the state and to acknowlege them as my master by getting that license.
Yep, here in sunny Arizona our streets are constantly running in blood…….NOT!
The writer of the editorial has probably NEVER been to a state that appreciates our 2nd Amendment……
PK Where in Arizona, lake havasu City Az, here…
“I died and went to Heaven”
@Tim
“From a gun rights perspective, should open carry be legal? Probably, but I certainly would never choose to do it.”
I think that is really the point in Texas I don’t have the choice of open carry or concealed carry. I would not choose to Open Carry either but that is my choice not my States Laws. If I choose to Open Carry that would mean I would also choose to deal with the consequences.
Funny how I feel the same way about folks that drive BMWs Mercedes Audi’s etc. I feel intimidated and provoked that they should be showing off these high end death machines (yup cars are the instrument of more fatalities than guns) in public. I want to BAN them NOW. I am sure this idiot would agree with me.
hymmmn, Sort of, in agreement, with the thought, if it’s “Not”, out in plain sight, the less chance there would be of a confrontation. But, on the other hand, harder to draw, if Needed!…. My Concealed Carry, Alternative is my Bond Arms,
“Snake Slayer IV”. “Over & Under”, [2, 3 inch barreled, Derringer]. Chambering, either, 2, 3 inch Magnum, [.410, OOO Buckshot, 5 pellots, coming out with the velocity, of 5 .357 Magnums bullets]; or, 2, .45 Long Colt cartridge, in 250 grain, Hollow Points.
….. Also, occassionaly carrying my small, Taurus, Millenium, PT145, 10 shot magazine, another, in the “Throat’, hide in your hand “cannon”!
We’re all avoiding the big question here, people. Why the HELL is that guy in the video wearing his revolver on his SHOULDER?
Too many George Bush/ Mittens Romney Republicans in neocon Texas. Carry is by permit only and OC, generally a superior method of carry, is and will remain unlawful.
Move further West? Why? Indiana’s gun laws are just fine thank you berry much! We score an awesome 4% on the Brady’s scorecard and I’ve been open carrying with nary a problem for two years now. And that’s in Indianapolis no less.
I open carry so I will hopefully never have to use the gun and hell yes I want to intimidate criminals and maybe, just maybe deter them.
I am not a big fan of open carry for self defense for the reasons that others have pointed out (ie, it can make you a target in several ways). For instance, taking your gun for a walk thru a city park is bound to peak the interest of the local Constabulary as well as alarm folks who, quite correctly, are wondering Just-what-the-heck-are-youDoing? There needs to be some consideration as to when and where it is advisable to do certain things.
…but how does one go hunting if open carry is not legal?
Is there an exception for weapons carried while hunting?
Is it really illegal in TEXAS to walk down a country road carrying a gun? Texas? Really?
Like I said, I think Open Carry is generally not good practice, but I still think it should be legal.
Hunting is an exception, and open carry laws apply to handguns only. Long guns are still allowed.
What if you are hunting with a handgun?
Legal, but game / ammo / action specific. Google” handgun hunting regulations in texas” and choose ” TPWD: Means and Methods – Texas Parks & Wildlife Department”.
Useful information on hunting in Texas.
looks like we have ours selfs a liberial here. at the dallas paper..linch em….
Liberal! Where!?
“Liberal! Where!?”
Enough here for a posse?
OK guys, whose got the rope?
As someone who lives in Texas and goes to college in Georgia I would love for OC to be legal because I worry about printing. If I accidentally print I could get charged with brandishing a firearm but in Georgia I don’t have to worry about that.
Good point. The subject of a forthcoming post . . .
Exactly the point I was going to make. While I rarely OC, it being legal is better just so I don’t have to worry about flashing my holster when I move around.
i noticed theres no editors name on this artical… can some one find the clowns name so i can send him a professionly worded letter
Considering there are 10 mistakes in those 2 lines, I doubt it.
Times sure have changed. I was in Texas in the 70’s. Like most of America then, you could not get a concealed carry permit. Open carry was legal and every one outside of the big cities wore a gun belt. All the pickups had long guns in the rear windows all the time, not just during hunting season.
In the 70’s open carry was legal in Ca. The pistol had to be empty though. Our kind and generous pols corrected that problem recently. No more open carry.
The only time open carrying is even partially smart is when you’re in a group with other people who are also openly carrying. Open carrying by yourself is asking for trouble.
An ambush attacker(s) can cross 21′ in 1.5 seconds. In an urban area especially the inner city with lots of shady characters, found frequently along your walking path, sometimes working in groups ie gangs “flashing” an unloaded (or maybe loaded?) OC gun is imo much like flashing too much jewelry or other high target items. I used to take the metro train back and forth from San Francisco through Oakland and into Berkeley California. There were always people, often walking past or standing in my vicinity, that could have flown into me given a motivation. Personally, I prefer CC to OC yet if the historical facts are that OC folks are not getting ambushed and having their guns stolen then I’m not calling for a ban on OC.
Okay, these comments prompt some questions and comments:
If you live in a State where open carry is permitted, why do some of you mention that it attracts attention of the LEO’s you encounter? Do your Police/etc not know the State Laws? If they do, it should be no big deal, same as any other legal activity.
Some of you mention that your issue with concealed carry is that if you “print” you may/will be charged with brandishing. Is this a flaw in the concealed carry laws in your State? Is this a problem with what you choose to carry concealed? Could you carry something else and reduce/eliminate the chance of printing? I am not arguing about what you might choose to carry, but to ask if the concealed carry law is skewed deliberately to try to force you to carry something (like a .380 or .25 cal Autoloader) that you consider ineffective.
The only issues I can see with handgun open carry being LEGAL in a State is that it does mark you as a potential target to a BG about to commit a crime, who might be concealed carrying (not legally, but what does a criminal care?) and subject you to an ambush. If you open carry, wouldn’t you need to secure the pistol so that no one else could suddenly grab it, which may make it more difficult for you to draw quickly if needed.
Living in CA, I have a better chance of winning the Lottery than ever getting a CCW, and open carry is flatly outlawed, but these things seem to come up whenever open vs. concealed carry is discussed, and I finally had to ask.
Answer to your questions DerryM … yes.
I would like to see some data that confirms all of these accusations that anti-open carry people seem to always spout:
-Makes you a target
-Bad guy can grab your gun
-Lose your “tactical advantage” (yet I’m guessing the majority of the people who spout this one have no “tactical” training anyway)
While there may be some data base on law enforcement encounters, I would argue that because they put themselves in those types of situations and already are targets, that data is irrelevant.
While it’s a different topic altogether, I’m a fan of Minnesota’s (and several other states) carry law…permit is to carry, concealed or not, it is your choice. This helps prevents the printing/flashing “crime”.
I’m in Georgia. Licensees can OC or CC.
A couple of points I think should be made.
1) OCing makes gun ownership more acceptable that’s why the gun banners hate it. When I OC, I am an ambassador to the world. I dress nice and smile alot. People see me and they think …. not all gun nuts are nuts.
2) Crimes have been stopped or discouraged because criminals see an OC’d gun.
3) LE is surprisingly supportive of OC. Most encounters are pleasant friendly hellos.
4) Nobody notices. I’m serious, nobody notices the gun. It sounds crazy but its the truth.
re: nobody notices
Not even people who should know better.
3 times now (that I can think of off the top of my head) people who know I carry were completely unaware that I was armed, and within arm’s reach of them.
1 was getting lunch after a day of shooting, and my buddy was approached by some other patrons asking about me being armed.
1 was when I first met with my lawyers, OC a black pistol against a white shirt & tan shorts, and they didn’t notice.
1 was handing out literature at a “guns save lives” truck event, and the driver was chatting with me for several minutes before he asked, “so is OC legal here?” pointing to a couple guys with big shiny flashy pistols. All I said was, “look at my hip”. I swear he jumped. He’d been standing on my strong side, me with a full-size black pistol sitting there in its holster, and didn’t see it.
Ok I will chime in here. Like JWM I am in California, so no OC, and good luck with CC.
That being said, I don’t quite get what the guy is saying really.
First off if only one person OC’s it stands out. If everyone or lots of people do it it becomes the norm. We can talk about draw times, and whether you are a bigger target to no end, but in the end it is really about normalcy.
Also from an LEO perspective, no I am not one, but I would think OC would be a nice thing. First off if you see someone OC’ing you know right away exactly where there firearm is. It is the one’s you don’t see that can hurt you.
Also let’s say you are sitting in that cafe and a BG walks in thinking it is time to rob everyone and get some cash. He sees a few folks with heat on their hips and decides it isn’t the right day. You just prevented a crime by eating breakfast.
I am for OC and CC. It is a personal choice, but being able to have that choice as an American is what is important.
Also for those in CC, and OC states. Let’s say you are CC’ing and well that 1911 you love some much just cant be worn without sticking out somewhere, is it still legal?
I mean I get the whole printing thing, but having to buy cloths two sizes larger just to hide your piece seems silly to me. A simple belt holster with the handle sticking out is concealed in my mind. Sure in winter ware a jacket no problem. But I am old fashion, I like to tuck my shirt in beer gut and all.
Sum it up this way:
We don’t open carry and don’t think you should either.
I think concealed is the way to go, but I’m not about to tell anyone not to holster it on their hip. If cops can walk around with a Glock in the breeze we should too. I think we are just as competent open carry as the cops are, and the lack of uniform actually allows us to blend in a little better.
I’m against open carry of any newspaper. It only makes the carrier look stupid.
Let’s see, if I am intent on criminal mischief, who do I shoot first? Ah, the man/woman with the gun on their hip in plain sight. However, it is your choice, depending on the law in the area. Having said that, if there were multiple open carry weapons in sight, I might well decide it is not worth it. If a legal carrier were to get irresponsible, it would matter little if he/she drew from concealment or open. I get more nervous from anyone being covered from head to toe with only a slit for their eyes.
Well, y’all, I reckon the Big-D news oughtta think about making all of our peace officers conceal carry rather than open carry.
I mean, how can y’be a peace officer if your gun is intimidatin’ folks?
Tactical considerations aside, ultimately the reason you want open carry is so you don’t become a criminal because you forgot to put a shirt on: http://youtu.be/2Y0g2cZHPJ8
The tl;dw is he was eating a messy lunch, didn’t want to get his overshirt stained, and so took it off. He had other stuff on his mind and forgot to put it back on before he left his house. Since he lives in Oregon, he’s fine. If he lived in Texas, he’d become a criminal the moment he left his house.
FACTS:
In Texas, one can shoot a MF for a whole slew of different reasons.
Open Carry will Never pass in Texas…nor will gambling or prostitution. I guess one out of three ain’t bad?
I agree with them 100%, since an openly worn firearm MAY provoke someone to try grabbing it or other violence.
While we are at it we should enforce dress codes for women, since a provocatively dressed woman MAY provoke someone into violence against women.
(Sarcasm off)
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