“We feel customers and employees will feel safer when people are not openly walking around with guns. It’s hard to tell who is a responsible gun owner and who is someone I should seek cover from.” – Anna Kehde, Texas chapter leader of Moms Demand Action, quoted in Gun-Friendly Texas Is Getting Even Friendlier [via nytimes.com]
Um… it’s called a ‘holster’.
Well played sir.
gun in holster = ignore them
gun in hand = seek cover from
That’s the way I’ve always seen it.
Yep, that is what I would say as well.
You could even make the case of “firearm in hand= engage”
Why is that so hard to understand??
A holstered gun is no threat!
I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a second because I do kind of see their problem. The thing about those holsters is that the guns can be pulled out of them very quickly. That being said… if someone is intent on causing carnage, they would just hide their gun under their shirt if open carry wasn’t legal. So, I guess that means open carry actually makes the situation less dangerous. At least then you know who has a gun. Knowledge is power.
Reggie, whether a gun appears in someone’s hand from an OC holster or from under a shirt, the reaction should be the same; draw your own gun, and wait to see what happens next. OC is a complete non-player, regardless of what the panty-wetters claim, they have zero experience, zero expertise, and zero input.
I got into a discussion about this one mom’s page, a few things they don’t understand. Texas’ law only allows those who already have a CCP to open carry. That suddenly criminals will start to open carry, which would attract attention to them. They have the misconception that open carry is more dangerous to the public than concealed carry. PeopleTonly open carry to terrorism the public. That an open carry person would easily be disarm and their gun be used against them and everyone around them. Open person said she would disarm someone open carrying just to prove a point.
Disarming someone in public to prove a point, huh…
What point would that be? Larceny is fun.
Moms can be arrested, too. And depending upon the value of the weapon it could be grand larceny.
Then she could change her status to a felonious mother demanding action.
In Texas, theft of a firearm- any firearm- is a felony.
I wouldn’t worry about the felony rap. Trying to grab someone’s gun is a pretty good way to get yourself shot. And the legally armed citizen would be well within his legal rights to shoot you too.
Well, Gov, my first reaction would be to attempt to break her nose with my fist, then draw and hold her face down on the ground, at gunpoint, for police. It would be interesting to hear her declare how she was so terrified at seeing an OC gun that she just had to physically attack. Doesn’t sound real sensible, but it sure doesn’t sound like OC is really very scary, either. Perhaps, instead, she is just so carried away with her own importance that she feels a need to make everybody on the planet obey her every dictat!
As recently as last night, a Houston area man managed to snatch a sidearm from one of the two deputy constables who had him pinned on the ground, and discharge said sidearm. No one was injured, but it’s still an incredibly dangerous, felonious stunt to pull.
This real peach of a perp has, among his many prior convictions and run-ins with the law, a state jail felony conviction for a 2008 grab at a Houston police officer’s gun, too.
I’m not saying this representative of all encounters out there, but it’s something to keep in mind. There are felons out there willing to wrestle with police and attempt to murder them with their own service weapons. Yes, it’s uncommon, even rare, but then again, so are most defensive gun use scenarios we prepare for. This is something that should be considered in the same light. Take caution, use tactics, and employ equipment necessary to keep your firearm secure.
Yes, I understand your point, but police are often called on to take on suspects hand-to-hand, it’s part of their job. If theft of handguns from open carriers were even semi-common, it would have happened in other states that have open carry, at least enough to generate multiple news stories. That said, basic retention should be utilized, such as thumb-break, a strap, or press-lock type of holster.
Last year, only one cop was killed with his own gun taken away by a perp.
I already conceded it was rare, then again, so is open carry itself if you actually count up who’s doing it, how often and where. Houston’s the largest city this has ever really been tried. We can’t expect everything to be exactly the same as elsewhere. It could be better, worse, or basically the same but with slightly different challenges.
As for only one cop having been killed……I read that, too. So what? Cop killed with his own weapon is not sole standard to judge this by. Others have been merely injured. Others have had their guns taken and the thief escapes, to commit what crimes with it, who knows? Ask the Boston Bombers who stole a cop’s gun and proceeded to commit crimes with it.
Just keep a broad perspective. Carve a moment out of your anti-terrorist spree shooting fantasies to consider that the comparably rare event of a gun grab is something to consider, as well. Don’t obssess over it. Don’t make it the centerpiece of your training. Just be aware of it. I’m surprised this point is even uncontroversial.
HP, I agree that open carriers should use a retention holster but I carry concealed with a thumb break and I wouldn’t consider it a retention holster. It’s good for making sure the gun doesn’t plop right out onto the ground, but I don’t think it would be much of a deterrent to a gun grab.
Gun grabs are very rare, but you never know what someone is capable of when they’ve been huffing jenkem. Better safe than sorry.
“Cop killed with his own weapon is not sole standard to judge this by. Others have been merely injured. Others have had their guns taken and the thief escapes, to commit what crimes with it, who knows?”
J-H, wait, wait, now. Surely all LEO weapons are registered, aren’t they? I’m pretty sure our chief doofus has let it be understood that registered firearms cannot be used in crimes, it’s double-secret illegal. So, not to worry.
person said she would disarm someone open carrying just to prove a point.
I would pay to be a fly on the wall watching that. People could take bets on if she would get a broken nose, broken jaw, broken arm, or shot before the OCer figured out she was just an idiot getting ready to go to jail.
I’d settle for a Youtube video. I’m pretty sure my right hand would be headed to my gun pretty fast and my left fist would be headed for her face even faster. Somebody grabs your gun you have every reason to believe that their intent is to kill you with it.
Grabbing someone’s gun is, by law, considered using Deadly Force.
I am well trained in the skill of Gun Retention.
If a person were to try to take away my gun, and that could be Death Sentence for them.
I get to shoot them until the threat is gone or in other words, until they stop trying to get my gun.
The same law applies to Law Enforcement.
What fool would try to take away a firearm from police officer?
The same law applies to civilians.
Of course if an Anti-Gun activist were to try to do such a stupid thing,
I would say that would be one less dumb Gun Activist.
General Sheridan, just after the Civil War, said something to the effect about those
“heathen Indians”, “the only good Indian is a dead Indian”.
Now that was a racist thing to say, and he was never charged War Crimes or even
Crimes Against Humanity,
but I could say the same thing about those “heathen”, rabid Anti-Gun Activists who want to SWAT legitimate Gun Owners.
BTW, I am not a racist. I am not an Anti-Indian.
Indian Lives Matter.
I was merely quoting how the Native Americans were considered in the 17th, 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries.
“One person said she would disarm someone open carrying just to prove a point”
This kind of silliness will get you hurt, maybe killed. Where do these people come from?
When a dramatic Daddy idiot and a dramatic Mommy idiot love each other very much…
Furthermore, how much credibility should we be giving this person if she ends a sentence with a preposition? RF didn’t.
Her entire argument is premised on her feelings about other people’s supposed feelings. There isn’t a fact or objective thought anywhere in there. It’s pure squishiness typical of a skull full of mush and nothing to take seriously.
…from whom I should seek cover.
Bloomy hasn’t splurged for an editor yet.
“WE FEEL”, That is all you need to read. Well Mom’s, I feel you should go jump in a lake. Safe isn’t in the Constitution! P.S. Most criminals will conceal illegally until they “feel” they need to use their gun.
Beat me to it.
If it’s not your store, it’s not your business how to run it. Don’t like their policies? Don’t shop there.
The Moms can drop by my house. I’ll show ’em something they can feel. Let’s just say it’s double action without a safety.
Sheesh. You might want to reconsider. Have you seen any of these broads?
Somebody call the Waaaahbulance. The demanding moms are having a pearl-clutching moment, again. Still.
Give them a great big glass of Whine, they’ll be OK in a few minutes.
Want an extra order of French Cries?
Needs a pearl necklace!!!
SERIOUSLY? FLAME DELETED
I hope you’re not talking about a ZZTop “Pearl Necklace”.
That’s kind of Dirk’s department.
yes, because criminals in every other state open carry and it is so hard to discern the good guys from the bad ones. . . . yes, I can see why see is also the TX state chapter president of Mensa. /sarc
Remind me again why I am compelled to act on the basis of what you “feel”?
I have “feelings” for Shannon. Has she responded positively to my overtures? Nope. And until she gives in, acknowledges, and helps me act on my “feelings”, I really don’t want to hear about her crowd.
How’s that for their logic? 🙂
I demand a video, in order to address my feelings.
Because they have a vagina. Somehow having one and then pushing out a child makes them the know all prophets of modern times! My wife was determined to have our child without pain medication, she did it, she loves our daughter. She must love our daughter more than these nut jobs love their kids because she has a firearm and knows how to protect herself and her child from people intent to do them evil.
Vote for Hillary! She has a vagina! (allegedly)
/sarc
Bill does not think she does. . . . he found comfort elsewhere. just saying.
True story.
If we learned anything from the Clinton administration, getting favors from the interns is not an impeachable offense.
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So, TX should go back to carrying guns concealed only? The same guns are still there. The only thing that changed is that now you can see some of them.
You are in no more danger now than you were then. Some would say you are in LESS danger because now the potential criminals are having their eyes opened too.
They want to hide the truth about being armed, hence, their dislike of open carry. The propaganda won’t work if everyday people are peacefully carrying their guns everywhere.
John, your last sentence is pretty golden; it should probably be brought out in every “OC vs concealed” debate hereabouts.
Another upside is that OC may dissuade California residents from moving to Texas…
From your mouth to God’s ears.
Thanks, Another Robert. I’ve been beating that drum (some might say dead horse) since the late 1990s. I liked concealed carry. It was my primary mode of bearing arms until we got concealed handgun licensing law in Ohio. Unfortunately, I don’t think POTG can afford the luxury these days of concealing too much. I open carry all of the time, everyday, everywhere now. In my opinion, it is a necessity to preserve the exercise of our right in the face of blatant anti-liberty propaganda.
The one you should take cover from will be the one shooting people. The one minding their own business and hauling around the shopping cart, not so much.
You gotta be a pretty high speed operator to know that little gem; you’re welcome.
Maybe that is the concern of gun-grabbers: only high-speed, low-drag operators operating operationally will be able to discern who the bad guys are. Oh, and tacticoooool mall-ninjas might be able to figure it out as well.
Day two: still no blood running in the streets, quick lets go find one of those demanding moms so we can fill the pages with brain dead ramblings about feelings so that people don’t move on to a different story. The NY times people remind me of Jehova’s whitnesses “I promise you this time for real, he’s coming back, no seriously stop leaving he’s coming back, you are all going to be sorry!”
And 100 days from now or a 1000 days from now, there won’t be any blood either. Actually, there will probably be less blood in the street.
Every time a gun law that gives citizens greater responsibility is passed, the same trope comes out; “blood in the street,” shootout’s at the mall, etc. The anti’s are always wrong.
Bless their hearts.
One of my personal favorites is “It’ll turn minor fender benders into major gun battles.”
It will encourage common courtesy in day-today interactions with other citizens…
Good illustration was one of the first (maybe THE first) users of the carry law in TX, where a road rage incident had a twenty-something construction worker/bodybuilder pinning the vehicle of a forty-something businessman 100 lbs lighter and then attempting to beat him to death while they guy’s seatbelt was still fastened. Losing consciousness, the victim picked his gun up off the passenger seat and fired once. The attacker died. In that case it was pretty clear, someone was going to die or suffer critical injuries. The correct one did.
“We feel customers and employees will feel safer when people are not openly walking around obviously Muslim. It’s hard to tell who is a responsible Muslim and who is someone I should seek cover from.”
So this would be descrimination, but the statement against gun owners is somehow not?
Anna, what your feeling is descrimination. You must be great fun when your forced to stop for gas in a majority minority neighborhood.
Another person who lives by “Feels over Reals.”
Well stated Sixpack70 … see my comment below.
Notice that they object to OPENLY bearing arms. Their lies don’t work as well when most people can see how many are actually armed and behaving themselves. Concealed means concealed also means out of sight, out of mind. If some don’t open carry, the propaganda will win. That’s what they want.
YES! It’s time law-abiding gun owners came out of the closet. It worked for gay men, why should it not work for male men?
They can discriminate (and lie about) people they do not like doing things they do not approve of if those people are unable or unwilling to stand in the light of day and tell them to Fvck off.
“…and how do I know open carriers aren’t the ones turning my cats against me!?”
Newsflash princess: everyone in your vicinity could be about to deliver life ending injuries with their fists, clubs, knives, and/or firearms whether or not any of those items were openly visible before the attack.
Someone carrying an openly visible firearm changes precisely nothing.
I just want to ask Anna how it is she can better tell “who to seek cover from” when they have their guns concealed. It really defies all rational analysis.
That’s a point that baffled me when concealed carry first arrived in Texas in 1996. Why is concealed carry considered virtuous, but open carry as villainous?
Reading up on it I learned that in the 19th century it was regarded oppositely. Concealed carry was considered premeditation of secret advantage and surprise attack. Open carriers were considered up front self-defenders.
Not to reignite the debate over tactical advantages of either approach, but I would expect that most 21st century people will come to regard open carriers as nonthreatening. Sure, some may still find it distasteful and jarring, for reminding them of the danger of the world and their own failure to prepare for it, but nonthreatening to them.
Don’t confuse the facts, they don’t think concealed carry is virtuous or less threatening so much as they hate any furthering of firearms rights. They stand behind concealed carry because they know there is an abundance of concealed carriers who hate open carry. They will use those people to get some “see I told you so” poll numbers showing that “reasonable” gun owners don’t like open carry to divide and conquer, and then before the body of open carry has even stopped twitching they will pull the knife out and come after concealed. Whittle the rights down to nothing one cut at a time.
What Tex300BLK said and the related drum that I have been beating… If we hide our guns, their propaganda is more likely to be believed by the general public. If many people bear arms openly, the propaganda that most people are against guns and that there will be blood in the streets can be seen for the sheer nonsense it is. If alot of gun owners bear their arms openly everyday, the gun grabber’s propaganda fails rather quickly.
Well welcome to the real world Hon, it’s full of uncertainities. Chances are with nearly a million CHL holders in the state you’ve rubbed elbows with someone armed whether you knew it or not. Surprisingly, the gun did not leap into action and mow down the populace.
So when you venture outside Whole Foods and IKEA, here’s a rough primer to help you make a decision about good guy/bad guy…It’s not a guarantee, but a starting point in the threat matrix…
Guy with the holstered sidearm, visible or reasonablely concealed, or rifle slung over should/across back is a lawful carrier. Guy with gun in hand, or in a low ready position targeting folks…He’s probably a bad guy…or Austin Police looking to kill a dog. Either way, go the other direction.
It’s pretty freaking simple darlin. Unbunch the panties.
Thanks for the hearty chuckle … I needed that this morning!
There could very well be guns in Whole Foods or IKEA, unbeknownst the anti folks. Carrying concealed against 30.06 is only a Class Misdemeanor with a $200 fine. It’s just a step above Jay Walking.
But, don’t tell the moms there are no “safe spots” anymore, not that there ever really were; they’ll end up with the vapors.
Hell, ROHC, they wouldn’t be happy if they weren’t getting the vapors over something…
Well, gotta do something between 8am-3pm, whilst the kids are at school.
It’s not that some are consumed with a an irrational fear of an inanimate object.
It is that there are tens of millions of people that hold the same fear, making them feel as if their irrational fear has validity.
People with this fear, mostly progressives, truly do have a mental disorder.
Why is this a problem? It certainly isn’t one in 45 other states of the Union.
I have never seen a criminal who open carrys their illegal firearms so when I see someone open its not as much worry as thinking “does that guy have a gun?”
Wait a minute…. She admits there are responsible gun owners?
Wonder if Shannon will yank her “mom” card.
“Shannon” and “yank” in the same sentence. . . . nice
Well, it’s already been said, but it’s just so frustrating. If the Moms were really about “safety”, they would be all for OC; then they could see who the folks with the guns are, and could avoid them. But it’s not about “safety” at all; for the semi-rational ones, it’s about making guns _at best_ something sinister, to be kept hidden away from civilized society. And for the rank-and-file hysterical gun-o-phobes, it’s totally about emotions with no rationality component at all in the mix.
When the stuff hits the fan, I’m hanging with the people whom I feel safe – those packing. Amazing how logic goes out the door and a good number of people run their lives on hunches, how they feel, what sounds good, etc.
This real nails it. It is a very good bet that if some bad guy pulls a (probably concealed) pistol in her location she will join all the other helpless bystanders IMMEDIATELY BEHIND THE OPEN CARRIER who is shooting back.
“…It’s hard to tell who is a responsible gun owner and who is someone I should seek cover from”
That is her opinion.
It it still, however, wrong. If she is going to base who is good and who is bad on them carrying one item then that is her problem, not ours. And that one thing… she must think all the cops are bad guys too. Or that their polyester uniforms somehow negate the bad influence of the gun.
Who cares what a bunch of moonbeam nitwits think. Oh wait, theyre running one for President.
FLAME DELETED – ANY MORE AND YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY BANNED
Quit ripping off my posts, idiot.
Great minds think alike, so what the hell is this?!?!?!
Pro- or Anti-, no one should have to put up with poor English. Bravo, Farrago!
Good English, just poor grammar it is.
It seems she doesn’t rhink much of the customets and employees she runs into.
Why, any one of them could be, probably is, a bezerk bullet-hosing adtenaline junky who thinks the real world is Grand Theft Auto. Really, the only thing stopping the carnage is they cant find the death-engines hidden under their clothes.
Wow.
Apologies for the typos. Frakking “smart” phone. When I have to work that hard to get the letters out at all, I make more mistakes and don’t see them. (This is “better” somehow. Remind me again how?)
Yes, I have indeed had a brain injury, so am not to be listened to, regardless of the quality of what I might have to say. Any typo invalidates the though, don’t ya know. (Seriously, it seems to work like allocating a more limited capacity – I can’t see typos when I’m thinking hard, nor can I have a though when it’s all used up with the formatting.)
Would that more people put their effort into thinking about what they are saying, vs. how good they look parroting some sick burn they picked up from red-twit-book-tube (which absolves them of the need to have the thought in the first place.)
Ah, well. I’m still smarter than most of these idiots, and I’m literally missing part of my brain.
I hear you on the smart phones and head trauma. I sometimes resort to voice typing. Even then, it can take me several edits before the timer runs out if I don’t type it in memo first. 🙂 Carry on.
Best I can. Thanks, man.
It’s hard to tell who is a responsible gun owner and who is someone I should seek cover from.
Truth be told, it’s not hard to tell who is a nitwit and who is someone who makes sense.
The bad guy is the one pointing the gun at your face, The good guy is the one who just shot the bad guy. Now take your Xanax and have a nice glass of boxed chablis.
“The bad guy is the one pointing the gun at your face, The good guy is the one who just shot the bad guy.”
This^^^^
Our correspondent’s initial statement is incomplete. What she means is:
“It’s hard to tell outside of what they actually do who is a responsible gun owner and who is someone I should seek cover from.”
More completely this: “It’s hard to tell outside what they actually do and on any basis I am willing to consider who is someone I should seek cover from.”
Based on behavior, the OFWG open carrying may be a Good Guy (and possibly even a Methodist. Eeeeeeew, I know.) The green, omni-sexual, pan humanist may be a Bad Guy. Her problem is, deciding based on behavior she might have to decide that the wrong people are good guys or bad guys.
People like Our Humble Correspondent don’t want to “decide” based on behavior because that makes everyone a “responsible gun owner”; individually responsible for what they do with any gun they own. Her problem is she thinks nobody is, or can be “responsible” meaning prudent &judicious, so nobody should have a gun.
She really doesn’t think much of people, does she?
I believe the operative legal concept is “Innocent until proven guilty”. Drawing the pistol when no threat exists is the first clue to “guilty”.
Emotional irrational rants from the likes of Moms Demand Action leader Anna Kehde is exactly why I’ll defend the Texas open carry law even though my personal opinion is that open carry is tactically unsound and unwise in most settings and circumstances.
But putting the drivel from Kehde aside, most businesses that have opted to prohibit open carry on their property will keep the 30.07 signs posted since the Open Carry Obsessed account for an insignificantly small percentage of the Texas population.
I would say it’s easy to tell who a responsible gun owner is. I’m not worried about someone carrying a holstered gun. I’m worried about someone waving the gun around shooting at people. I would say the indicators of which ones are a danger are pretty clear.
I would say it’s easy to tell who a responsible gun owner is. I’m not worried about someone carrying a holstered gun. I’m worried about someone waving the gun around shooting at people. I would say the indicators of who is a danger are pretty clear. Of course if this isn’t common sense then you have other problems.
Hmmm, mmm dear. I see. That’s nice.
Now, go make me a sammich.
I wouldn’t eat a sandwich that was made by her. She was probably so stressed about openly carried firearms that she forgot to wash her hands.
I didn’t say I would eat it.
I just want her to practice doing something useful and rewarding with her time.
If it is “hard to tell” then someone needs education on subject.
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Really?
Let her eat more Chipotle. Statistically speaking she is at far more risk of bodily harm there.
“We feel customers and employees will feel safer when people are not openly walking around with guns. It’s hard to tell who is a responsible gun owner and who is someone I should seek cover from.”
Soooo….if the guy who is someone you should seek cover from is carrying concealed, then that is just groovy?
“We feel customers and employees will feel safer when people are not openly walking around with guns”
I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we couldn’t care less. If you don’t like it, go to your safe space, you know, like, California, or Canada or perhaps somewhere even further.
You should talk to your doctor about upping your dosage
Feel the Bern?
If you’re really worried about trying to discern nutjobs why are you focusing so much on guns instead of the people?
I personally don’t like, nor think people should openly carry (the legality is a totally different matter though. It should be legal).
But the problem I have with that quote is “we feel that…” how the hell would they know? They didn’t conduct a study. They didn’t interview people (at least not anyone outside their anti-gun group). She probably doesn’t even live in Texas.
43-year-old Anna Honor Kehde, a transplanted Kansas Jayhawker Democrat working as a ‘Housing Specialist’ for the Alamo Area Council of Governments, was a big supporter of gun-controller the late Senator Frank Raleigh Lautenberg (D-NJ, 27 December, 1982 – 3 January, 2001 and 3 January, 2003 – 3 June, 2013), the infamous originator of the patently unconstitutional “Lautenberg Law” (aka the ‘Domestic Violence Offender Gun Ban’).
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