“It may be true, as anti-gun control advocates always say, that guns don’t kill, people do. But in this case, Florida’s gun laws killed Trayvon Martin as surely as George Zimmerman did. It was those laws that encouraged Mr. Zimmerman to go out into the night armed and thinking he had a moral right to use his weapon against another human being.” – Andrew Rosenthal [above], New York Times Editorial Page Editor, Trayvon Martin and the Smoking Gun
Only in bizarro land does “stand your ground” mean “go out into the night.”
Chicago reaches 100 homicides for the year
March 21, 2012|By Tracy Swartz | RedEye
Chicago on Wednesday reached 100 homicides for the year–the fastest the city has hit this mark in at least seven years, RedEye and police data show.
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http://articles.redeyechicago.com/2012-03-21/news/31226458_1_police-data-three-homicides-redeye
7 Dead, 3 Injured in Calif. School Shooting
By AP / TERRY COLLINS April 2 2012
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2110889,00.html#ixzz1qwN0V5ux
I ask , how many victims have gun control laws created? Who would be alive today had those unfortunate violence victims had the means to defend themselves?
If we are to follow the idea that Florida’s legislature is responsible for Trayvon’s death, then California’s State Assembly should be tried for mass murder in the Hague-if that same court has the overtime budget. The court staff would be busy, with Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, and Hawaii’s respective governments on the same docket.
On a side note to the Chicago bit, Atlanta has an FBI published murder rate of 17.7 per 100k people. Multiply by our census count in 2010 of just over 420k people and we get….73 per year.
Yet Georgia scores 8 whole Brady points, and we’re about to force colleges to allow concealed carry (2 more lost). We’re also one of the biggest “crime gun exporters” in the country. Yet Chicago has already passed our projected homicide count. And they did it a month ago. Hooray for gun control.
BTW, if anyone else feels led to do quick Google research on the subject of their local major city, I’d be interested to see how different areas compare, along with their level of Brady gun control “proficiency.”
Here’s the Brady stuff:
http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/
Mr. Rosenthal forgot to mention how racist the Stand Your Ground law is.
New York, Cali, and Chicago have so many killings going down, cops killing unarmed kids, gangs killing, well, gangs, and are desperately trying to distract people: “Look at that damn Florida, yes keeping looking at Florida. Don’t look up here, no, keeping look at Florida! It’s Florida. Nothing to see up here. Really. It’s incidental, I suppose, that the law in New York is effectively no different for a guy with a permit being held down and beaten. Rosenthal knows that. He just wants you to keeping looking at Florida. Deceitful bastard, what?
Say it all you like, the nail that stands up is hammered down. Rightly or wrongly, if this goes down with Treyvon the victim and Zimmerman the aggressor when the verdict is handed down, it will be bad news for Florida’s gun rights.
The sort of political ammo an idiot with a gun chasing after a teen with no rap sheet and killing him provides is incalculable. Only a fool would reckon otherwise.
I do not understand why any of you are so quick to defend Zimmerman. Is it because he appears to be white? Is it because he is a gun owner? For all intents, the only mention we should make of Zimmerman is ‘an idiot with a gun went and did something incredibly stupid’.
That’s the best case. It may turn out that Zimmerman chased down a teen and killed him in cold blood. While that is in question alone, your words defending Zimmerman should be no more than ‘we’ll wait to see what comes out of the legal proceedings’.
FLAME DELETED
1) “For all intents, the only mention we should make of Zimmerman is ‘an idiot with a gun went and did something incredibly stupid’.”
2) “your words defending Zimmerman should be no more than ‘we’ll wait to see what comes out of the legal proceedings’.”
@Mark Smith,
Re-read your words above. Do you not see some double-standards or a lack in your own logic? Personally, I don’t find (most) people here defending GZ so much as they are discussing scenarios, laws, and the usual disgust with the mass media which has a terrible track record with objective ethical reporting. The mass media and masses of public sheeple are so extreme it is understandable that commentators here are responding to it as they are. I am against judging anyone in the Court of Public Opinion based on what is given to me on the Internet. I am a believer in “innocent until proven guilty” for everyone (male and female) black, white, yellow, red, tan, purplish-blue, brown, etc.
Yes, I’d say that all but a tiny minority are leaping to defend Zimmerman. I’m all for ‘innocent until proven guilty’, but I’m not for ‘innocent because he had a gun’.
Plenty of people are constructing elaborate theories as to how Treyvon could have put Zimmerman in a position where the only reasonable thing Zimmerman could do was kill the teen.
It’s not always what it looks like on the surface. That’s true enough. But unfortunately, what’s true more often is ‘if it walks like a duck, it is’. A guy chased someone down after a legitimate authority told him not to and the unarmed person he chased down ended up dead. There aren’t many good explanations for that.
It looks Bad. I couldn’t defend Zimmerman knowing what I know. All I could say is ‘Maybe there’s some amazing story behind how the killing of an unarmed teen was justified.’
Like he said.
The effort and frequency with which so many posters here contort themselves to align with zimmerman bears an unsavory residue.
Mark,
For starters, I don’t think Zimmerman looks white. And with the evidence that has been made public, I don’t think Zimmerman is guilty of anything, other than being a concerned citizen. In the 911 call Zimmerman made, I just hear a guy, that is concerned about a suspicious person in his neighborhood. I also hear, fear and anxiety in his voice, not a guy looking for a fight, or any other kind of contact for that matter. And at least, two different witnesses seen Zimmerman on his back. One caller to 911 says, “a black guy is standing over him“. And then there’s the witness, that says Zimmerman was screaming directly at him for help, before he ran inside to call 911. Next we have a police report, that documents Zimmerman’s injuries and lists 16 witnesses, that the police talked to that night. And after all of that, they found no evidence that Zimmerman was guilty of anything. What else do you want?
What I want to know, is where the hell people get that Zimmerman “confronted” “hunted down” “chased down” “killed in cold blood“ “was losing a fist fight” or that he was a some sort of “hell bent racist, ready to kill the next black person that crossed his path“ When there is no public evidence to back it up. Zero!
Obviously the only person alive, that knows exactly what happened, at the moment of contact, is Zimmerman. And I guess there is a remote chance, that he is possibly guilty of manslaughter. But obviously, the police, who had unfettered access to all the evidence and witnesses that night, didn’t think so. Or at least they didn’t feel there was enough to press charges. I believe, the only reason the public is worked-up about all of this, is because the agenda driven media and the race-baiters, fed them truckloads of half truth’s and made-up evidence. Its that simple.
Lastly. I think people have every right, to go outside of their home, or car, day or night, to investigate any suspicious activity in their neighborhood, that they please. And they have the right to do so, while being armed. I do it all the time and have every intention, to continuing do so
Damn straight. I don’t see how so many people are so quick to assume Zimmerman is in the wrong here. I think most would agree that any loss of life is tragic. I am only about 10 minutes from where this happened, so it hits close to home, literally. The scarey thing here is that I could easily see myself having been in that same situation. My car has been stolen twice from our driveway in the last 2 years, and someone attempted to get into our house while one of my daughters was home alone. So, please forgive me when I say I would absolutely call 911, AND walk outside to keep an eye on a “suspicious” person. When the police arrive, I want to know where to point them to.
There is no evidence that Zimmerman “chased” this guy. Following someone is not quite the same as chasing them. Wouldn’t most of you want a neighborhood watch person that actually pays attention to things in the neighborhood? Following someone because they seem suspicious, does NOT make you an “aggressor”. Do you know what does make someone an aggressor?? Walking up to someone and punching them in the face and then beating their head into the ground. Trayvon Martin ended his own life when he decided to attack someone….someone who legally had a concealed firearm. Someone who legally used his firearm to prevent his own death, which is likely how it would have ended if he had not done so.
This case is truly sad, but it is even more sad to see the kind of world we still live in…where the likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Spike Lee want to take advantage of a situation like this to incite racial hatred. Where the media plays their own spin on every detail of the case so they can get the ratings.
There is no evidence to show that Zimmerman did anything other than legally defend himself with deadly force. In fact, the evidence all points to his innocence. I do not know the guy…cannot say he wasn’t looking for trouble or that it was or was not racially motivated. All I can say is that, based on the evidence alone, including eye witness accounts, he committed no crime.
For someone not looking for a fight, he sure chased him down like he was. “They always get away” sound like the words of someone not looking for trouble?
He assaulted a cop, certainly not the behavior of someone who is fine with just sitting there and watching a potential burglar ‘get away with it’. Solving problems with guns even when there’s better tools available sounds like his M.O.
He killed a man. There’s no arguing over that. The only question is whether it was in actual self defense, or cold blooded murder?
I do not understand why any of you are so quick to defend Zimmerman.
Because I like living in a country where ‘innocent until proven guilty in a court of law‘ means something.
I am inclined to give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because I think that if he meant to kill the kid, he’d have called 911 after Trayvon was dead, not before… so whatever happened almost certainly wasn’t murder. That means the thing to do is give the cops time to sort it out. Until then, ‘innocent until proven guilty’ is the way to go.
Something bad and stupid happened that night, and I don’t know who’s fault it was.
When armed cops shot unarmed people, we usually manage to arrive at the correct conclusion. How is this any different?
Oh?
IMO, the ‘correct conclusion’ is that a cop who shoots someone who’s unarmed shouldn’t be a cop anymore, and depending on the circumstances, might need to spend some time in prison.
….which hardly ever happens.
I agree with the author’s point, and if FL has a few more shootings involving armed citizens who are self-appointed lone rangers, then FL’s law will be altered. There are numerous ways to allow carries yet impose more restrictions to more strongly discourage aggressive behavior.
Yep, and repealing Prohibition encouraged people to drink and drive and kill other motorists.
Like any typical coast leftist, it’s all about blaming everything except the person. Personal responsibility is foreign to them. Every time one of them tries to use a word they have no concept of, like “morality,” it makes me dry heave a little.
Those that espouse policies of victim disarmament, are always waiting in the wings, to use a Trayvon type shooting, to attack our Second Amendment. That’s why alternative media is good for gun rights.
Michael Bloomberg, or Andrew Rosenthal, take your pick. This is not unexpected. You want crime? In 2005, New York City experienced 539 murders, and they consider this low. The place where tourists get arrested for possessing legal handguns. Are we to believe one shooting in Florida, where all the facts aren’t know, is representative of those who wish to legally defend themselves, and exercise their right to keep and bear arms?
The outcry and criticism, of “Stand Your Ground” from these people, should be viewed in the same way you would view complaints from con men.
In fact this is more of the same type of astroturfing hype that we’ve come to expect from these band of merry statists. This goes especially in an election year, when their president with nothing to run on, needs all the help he can get.
You know what I want to know? When you have numerous local, and state jurisdictions, that have enacted Brady inspired gun prohibition policies, and they amount to nothing but failure, how are these mouthpieces taken seriously?
Don’t pay attention to the hundreds of murders(we’re talking 500+), that occur in anti-gun Los Angeles, County, on a yearly basis. Or the hundreds in L.A. city proper.
Or the continual victims in New York City, that can’t dream of defending themselves, with the best tools possible, all while a Media Matters CEO gets to walk around the city with armed guards.
The truth is, that those who are criticizing, and wish to enact bad gun control policies, have nothing to show for it.
AR is the type of sheeple in the mid 1930s who would suggest ignoring the growing Nazi nightmare as it will be just a bad dream when we wake up in the morning.
It’s true guns don’t kill, people do. People like those who kill in free fire zones, oops I mean gun free zones. Like Collage campuses and high school campuses and ma;;s that don’t allow firearms. Or New York City and Detroit. It’s a shame how the media is trying to blame the gun, and gun laws. Let’s look at it a different way. What would have happened if Travon had been trained and legally armed as Mr. Zimmerman was? Would their have even been an encounter? I ask you decide.
“Thinking he had a moral right to use a weapon against another human being.”
You have to wonder where some people learn to think. This guy just wrote off every soldier who ever defended his own country, self, or friend. And he’s just written off every black civil rights worker who used a gun to fend off an attack from the KKK or its sympathizers. Take the flip-side of his statement: That there’s a moral duty to accept a beating, great bodily harm, or death. There aren’t too many cases where this will prove true. Hopefully, he’s better than his arguments.
I posted a question about why people from Florida always claim they are from somewhere else even if they have lived here most of their lives, I’m from NJ and had some theories about Floridians having a certain sense of shame or inferiority complex when it comes to where they are from…..I got some moronic responses from a few people and went back to edit the orginal question….just wanted to post it up again in case those numbskulls didn’t get a chance to read it.
to claim another place as their home. I’m no exception but I just moved down here from New Jersey….I dont know the area that well and I’ll tell people I’m from NJ. But every single person I meet, this one 19 year old chick was like yeah I’m from Arizona, so I’m like that’s cool how long you been in Florida….she is like 12 years!!!!!
How can you be claiming Az when you have lived more than half your life in this $hithole…..then another perosn from claimed to be from Pennslyvania when lived down here like 20 years. An every single person who actually owns up to being a Floridian does so with a certain level of shame, always.
Its definitly nothing to be proud and I’m pretty sure I would be embarassed being from this whack *** state myself but at least own up to it.
I was born in England, moved to New York when I was like 2, was raised out in NJ but I would never claim the UK or NY…..or even NJ now that I happen to be stuck in this country-***, classless marshland…..anyone asks I say I live in Florida, only temporarily, thank god, I’m getting out of here and never looking back the first chance I get.
I just wonder if this is common with undesirable places….like people are also the same way when it comes to whack places like Utah or Arkansas….what do you think?
1 hour ago – 4 days left to answer.
Additional Details
Broken vampiress or whoever you are, spoken like a true untraveled, unworldly, piece of Floridian trash….you say hello? Well hello dummy, people come here to exploit it, vacation for a while then get the hell back to real society…baseball teams use it to train, disneyworld set up shop so they could make money all year
50 minutes ago
As far as NJ being the armpit, I’d much rather be the armpit than the uncircumcised crooked penis of the country. NJ has infinitly better beaches and the best boardwalk in the world, and thats FL’s only claim to fame, their beaches and we got them beat, on top of which we have legalized gambling, 30 minutes to NY arguably america’s best city and 30 minutes to Philly which not only houses the declaration of independence but the constitution as well, we got culture coming out the ***, not to mention america’s top university. You cant compare the two, we have you losers beat at every angle.
25 minutes ago
And as far as any significant person coming out of Florida, they all hate it…Johnny Depp is from here and left as soon as he could claiming it was like the town in What’s Eating Gilbert Grape, nothing ever happens and will never happen…and thats all you have unless you want to include losers like Tosh.0 who quoted Florida as being”hot, flat, and dumb”
Now Jersey not only has stars we have superstars, Tom Cruise, Jack Nicholsen, Frank Sinatra…and they all love NJ.
Not to mention where Thomas Edison invented the lightbulb and Albert Einstein did his most important work.
Florida is designed for morons who do not want to think, ;lain and simple, everything is packaged for convenience, its like a fast food state, dont get me wrong, its great to come here for a week get wild and party but once you leave your skidmark on this hot, unpleasnatly, humid, arachnid swarming, hurricane riddled mess its time to get the hell out.
15 minutes ago
Only a brain dead philistine totally devoid of any imagination and personality would want to call this place home and be proud. This is the kind of place where all those to Catch a Predator shows are filmed..the kind of rancid environment that produces putrid filth like Aileen Wournos. I wish a hurricane would wipe this embarassment off the map.
12 minutes ago
I wouldn’t even think twice about this hole if I didn’t get stuck down here…and why did I get stuck down here…because the morons who inhabit this mockery to the democratic process helped get that genius George Bush elected not once but twice and totally destroyed the fabric of our society and economy. The people of Florida should be stoned in the streets, they’re shameless. If they had a shred of dignity they would realize their folly and hang their sloped-browed heads in shame.
Wha a collection of @$$holes.
7 minutes ago
I posted a question about why people from Florida always claim they are from somewhere else even if they have lived here most of their lives
Hint: it’s related to the ‘Florida’ tag on Fark.com.
The only state so honored (altho there has been some discussion of adding a ‘TEXAS’ tag).
To summer camps san francisco:
You’re not stuck down here in FL by any means… Please take your
condescending view of FL with you when you leave (which for everybody’s sake should be ASAP). If NY and NJ are so great, why did they lose population (and congressional seats) from 2000 to 2010? While FL gained 2 seats and TX gained 4? (Hint: not because FL or TX is so much worse than NJ or NY).
Been here 17 years, consider myself a native Floridian now.
And about the beaches: If you really think that NJ beaches are so much better than FL ones… That tells everyone else how to value your opinions on other matters.
Its sad that both the gun grabbers and the race baiters actually want Zimmerman to walk away from this without any jail time what so ever. Wait what? Yep, then they can scream racism, the Florida gun laws made him do it, the police are bigots, wild west, etc, etc…
Thats all they really want. They dont want “justice”. They want exploitation. They dont care about Treyvon, his family, and most certainly not Zimmerman. All they care about is furthering the agenda… and what better way to do that than to have Zimmerman walk.
What his brilliant analysis of the murder rate in Chicago?
“thinking he had a moral right to use his weapon against another human being.”
He did have the moral right. It’s called self-defense. That right comes next after your right to say idiotic things.
How do you chase someone down in ‘self defense’?
Another New York City tool heard from.
Forgive them, Lord, for they are schmucks with earlaps.
+1. Too bad the NYC/NJ tools won’t stay up there in their little world with their smug worldview.
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