“It’s not sporting to use a semi-automatic weapon to go hunting, or frankly, self-defense.” – Philadelphia Congressional candidate Dan Muroff, quoted in Dan Muroff: ‘Guns in the street are easier to find than healthy produce’ [via aldianews.com] [h/t HB]
If you’re being ‘sporting’ about self defense, you’re doing it wrong.
^^Came here to say this.
Self defense implies that the defender is not the initial aggressor, and is looking to end the aggression rather than prolong it.
Being “sporting” implies fisticuffs or a brawl, not self defense.
Sport and hunting arguments were used by the Nazi regime in Germany to ban guns before WWII.
Citations please?
Gun control was instituted by the Weimer Republic before the Nazis came to power. It may be that you are correct, but I always like to ensure assertions are fact, it is one of the many things that we PotG have over the antis.
In response to daniel, Stephen Halbrook’s “Gun Control in the Third Reich” is the definitive authority on this topic. Some of the articles Clayton Cramer has written have also touched on this topic.
Why? Daniel. Can’t we all just agree that those who were led like sheep were the least armed and the least otherwise equipped to do anything about it?
Germans took Poland first, due to its industrial might and rich resources. The Polish people were the first to encounter the Blitzkrieg and for as long as they were able to withstand it, other (armed) people could have fed it its d1<k, had they only been slightly more prepared. Many Catholics and Christians died trying to slow them down. Tiananmen Square had nothing on Poland, and yet Bytom became the first train station in the many rail-rides to hell that the Germans provided those they worked to eradicate. F da quote, f the need for any other examples too.
I shall remove my white gloves and challenge my attacker to a gentlemanly duel. If he fails to properly abide by the rules he will surely be seen as a disgrace to our community, which is a deterrent.
personally I prefer to unscrew my pommel and end them rightly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w
The real issue properly highlighted is how difficult it is to get healthy foods “in the street.”
Pavement is notoriously difficult to grow a garden in.
Yeah, my Brussels sprouts always taste oily when I grow them in the street.
And not the good extra virgin olive oil oily.
Like engine oil oily.
when it comes to self-defense, i want all the unfair advantage i can get.
Let me quess which party?
By intent, efforts taken to ensure my own survival (including hunting for food and defending myself against a violent attacker) are and should not be sporting.
My life is not a sport.
It’s the difference between fly fishing and commercial fishing with a net (or lobster trap). One is a sport, the other is self defense (against starving).
The difference between hunting a few white-tails every year and raising cattle.
I’m sure we could go on.
That’s a special kind of stupid.
That’s what I came here to say. Frankly, I can’t believe that serious “rebuttal” comments are being offered; that was truly a statement that is beneath any response save perhaps an utterly incredulous “Are you serious?”
This guy is out of his effing mind. The saddest part is there are fellow traveling idiots who agree with him and will vote for him.
If this fool thinks self-defense is a sport he had better hope somebody has advised the tug he is defending against about the Marquis of Queensbury rules. Anybody who thinks self defense is a sport has obviously never watched WWE professional wrestling.
This guy should maybe lay off the produce a little and try some red meat.
Maybe lay off some of the herbs as well?
I’ve noticed this more and more with the anti’s. They’re now trying to go after semiautomatics altogether, acting as if the only “appropriate” guns for civilians are non-semiautomatics. Of course if they succeeded in banning semiautos, they’d eventually then go after the bolt-actions, lever-actions, pump-actions, etc…and what the heck does he mean by “sporting?”
This is true. They want nothing more than to remove semi autos from civilian ownership. It sure sounds like the UK or Australia where they did something similar. They love to attack the wrong people for the problems in the country. My non semi automatic bolt action weapons with wood stocks have potentially killed a lot of people. My modern semi automatics have only killed paper. If I have to use one of my modern semi autos in self defense, I sure as hell don’t want it to be sporting for the attacker. If you are fighting fair, then you are not fighting the right way.
Professor Volokh agrees:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/…matic-weapons/
I know people who have lean winters and tight stomachs if they don’t get their elk and deer in the fall. And, I doubt that anyone here expects them to give their subsistence a sporting chance. But, I also know a number of bow and black powder hunters who had switched from high powered rifles to make it more sporting. Good for them too.
But self defense? One of the dumbest things that I have heard recently. I would vote to give this guy the job of informing people that their loved ones had given their assailants a sporting chance, and had died as a result.
Along the same lines, I’m thinking that predators like coyotes and destructive nuisances like feral hogs really don’t rate “sporting chances”.
Watch what you say about Coyotes. I have a few sheep I raise because I love lamb.
I got my spread VERY cheap because the guy who lived here before me killed off all the ‘predators’ (coyotes), found his land infested with ground-squirrels and mice in his house – shot all the ground-squirrels, skunks, racoons — if it wasn’t a horse or cow he shot it – with a very good ‘varmint’ rifle (they dig holes that break the legs (sic!) of horses and cows) — and ended up with a house filled with desert rats and mice – and the year after the Mormon Cricket invasion, he had so many rats and rodents, and a house filled with rifle holes in the walls and ceiling I got it, two barns, one filled with hay, the other with tractors and attachments – 3 year round streams, 6- maybe 15 spring into early summer springs – fenced pastures, etc – for the price of a low end luxury car – he just wanted OUT and into a small trailer, and I looked at his drive way, his plow and front end loader and thought, yeah, I can make it to work, and live here – and re-introduced smaller predators trapped other places, and with my Malamutes- let the coyotes move back in.
The number of lambs I lose to Coyote’s is SMALL in comparison to the cost of rat-mouse control – And if you’ve seen a desert rat, they get to the the size of a normal house cat. I’ve shot coyote, don’t get me wrong – but they are NOT as bad as you think – they PREFER smaller game — it’s why they out-compete wolves in all ‘overlap’ areas. It’s a myth that needs to be stopped – Malamutes are not ‘guard’ dogs – but put them down with the sheep when it’s lambing time and it takes care of the problem with coyotes.
And I haven’t lost a single Malamute Xross in my life — even when I hear what sounds like the proverbial ‘coyote ambush’ where one goes out and the dog runs after it and into multiple coyotes. They have a bad name, but when you look at the big picture, they do you FAR more good than bad – if you treat the problem correctly – a good sheep dog or shepherd is FAR cheaper than a rifle and the ammo you need to keep Coyotes at bay. And cattle are FAR more able to protect themselves from coyotes that most give them credit for – think: herd Evolution. It’s in their genes to protect their young from predators as small as a coyote. Horses are the same – I often hear mule/donkey vs Coyote sounds at night – and I’ll be damned if I can EVER find the carcass of a Coyote killed Mule or donkey.
AS FAR AS THE REST OF THE QUOTE GOES: IT DOESN’T WARRANT A COMMENT. It’s like a students’ paper I’d return without a mark or comment or grade — it simply wasn’t worth the time.
Not that your comment needs any reinforcement, but it seems I’ve been told the same thing you’ve said by folks much wiser than I. Thanks for the post, though because it will remind me to think twice about attempting to clear out natural predators or prey from my land.
Sporting self defense?
Does this guy duel? Sir, you have offended me! Pistols at dawn! No semiautos you coward!
Only a 6-shot .500 S&W buddy!
Oh, you don’t own a gun?
This will be easy…
I have a felling that this is a guy who does not know the differences between semi automatic and full automatic
That way the comment may make some sense not much but some
Ok now I get it. These people are angry because they live in food deserts (see Michelle Obama) without access to healthy produce. They need some damn veggies fast! It’s making them crabby!
Not veggies, fiber. They need a whole lot more of it.
Could be, I suppose, but it seems to me like they’re full of it.
Nah these people just need to hear an opinion that differs from their own, for a change. The ‘liberal echo chamber’ as some like to call it, makes them feel good about themselves regardless of how destructive their policies really are. They all just congratulate each other for failed policies, and they get paid anyway, so…
“Liberal circle jerk” is more of an accurate summary.
I always make my self-defense efforts a sporting event. I use an 870 Wingmaster which is designed for sporting purposes to turn the efforts of an intruding perp into a truly sporting event. Jolly good show, old chap, but I finally bagged you. Maybe I can mount the head of the perp on the wall of my reading room parlor as a big game prize?
That’s funny as hell, because I imagine that’s what hoplophobes think of us. They think we’re just itching to bag us a human, so we can go around telling our friends that we got to use [insert weapon of choice].
Like any moral 5 year old, little Danny Boy just wants everyone to be fair.
Sporting? Does this mean hunting safety class and purchasing tags? The mounts over the fireplace will be great conversation starters when boys come over to pick up my daughter.
So what are thermonuclear weapons then – really really unsporting? Drones? Spies? Withholding sex?
I think this guy’s been withholding sex…from his hand! He should just give in, and leave gun owners alone.
Cocaine is a helluva drug.
Pandering. Perhaps he should see how the districts are aligned/gerry-mandered. Unless he is running in philadelphia proper, his audience probably is not the right one for the anti-gun crap. I hope he spends a lot of his $$ trying to run and then goes broke as he loses
Edit: my bad. He is running for part of an urban district. Has anyone explained to him that blacks (raising hand as one) generally are the most loyal democrats?? Rep Fattah will get re-elected. Game over. Thank God I am a republican
It’s possible he means that it makes it more sporting for the Bad Guys if their victims are not armed with better, more efficient weapons.
Spoken like a truly clueless politician.
Well, you have to respect his commitment to his constituents. It must be daunting to be a Democrat today. They are loosing local and state-level races across the country in every election. More of the political landscape is turning red. The country is slowly moving right and the progressive hell holes of large urban centers are plagued by crime, drugs, and violence.
And everywhere the map turns red, gun laws are changing. Legal carry in all 50 states? Yep. Defensive gun uses being actually reported daily across the country? Yep. American’s changing their views on gun ownership? Yep.
Thankfully, there are potential public servants like old Dan here who are committed to keeping the battle against crime and violence “sporting”. Good for him. Too many predators across the country are being whacked by good guys with guns. That means lost votes for the Democratic machine. Clearly something must be done.
Dan knows what to do. He’ll even the playing field! No semi-automatic weapons. What a bold, inciteful move. And it handily goes sideways around the whole magazine size issue. That Dan. What a leader. Let’s pass laws that limit all defensive handgun use to revolvers. Because defending yourself with a semi-auto and 17 rounds is unfair to a criminal predator. It isn’t sporting.
it is time to laugh these morons out of existence. To point and proclaim as loudly as possible: “You, sir, are a despicable coward! And you know it. It is your dark, hidden secret. You are a coward. And like all cowards, you must demean, hamper, and obstruct those around you who do not share your weakness. It is the only way you can look at yourself in the mirror. You tell yourself that you are making society better, but we know that’s not true and so do you. You are just trying to make the rest of us more like you. The more people ignore principle, embrace weakness, and huddle defenseless against the storm, the more your own cowardice is justified. You are despicable.”
I am really, really tired of these people.
You missed a spot there… Most revolvers load the next cartridge automatically for you when you pull the trigger… Wanna bet someone equates that with semi-auto at some point? #shiftingthegoalposts
Good point. Single-shot flintlocks at dawn. That’s the sporting solution.
BRAVO SIR!!!! Well and truly spoken. With your permission I would like to use part of your comment, the coward part.
Permission granted. We need to call these people out every chance we can. Thanks for your comment.
“You, sir, are a despicable coward! And you know it. It is your dark, hidden secret. You are a coward. And like all cowards, you must demean, hamper, and obstruct those around you who do not share your weakness. It is the only way you can look at yourself in the mirror. You tell yourself that you are making society better, but we know that’s not true and so do you. You are just trying to make the rest of us more like you. The more people ignore principle, embrace weakness, and huddle defenseless against the storm, the more your own cowardice is justified. You are despicable.”
r/selection – to the letter of the definition.
“Dan knows what to do. He’ll even the playing field! No semi-automatic weapons. What a bold, inciteful move.”
Word police here, with the day’s award for fortuitous mistakes. The word you were looking for was “insightful”, addressing the ability to evaluate the finer points of a problem, but “inciteful”, related to inciting to riot, for example, is just simply perfection.
This guy sounds just like English Bob, and I’ll bet he’s at least as hypocritical.
Do politicians get drug tested?
My father in law is just like this. Says any hunter should use a single shot or bolt gun. He thinks people use semis for hunting because they are shitty shooters. I tell him it’s a personal thing.
Hes a collector and not a shooter, doesn’t like modern guns, so that’s another reason
Depends on what you’re hunting. If you’re hunting hogs in Texas a semi-auto is highly appropriate. I’d probably agree with him on deer though, it should never take more than one shot. Any shot in the vitals and the deer will run over the hill and bed down and die if you wait a little bit. There are a lot of hunters out there that can’t seem to help themselves from sending round after round at a running deer, be it bolt, lever or semi-auto. Not sure I’d call it ‘unsporting’ to use a semi-auto but you’re goal should be to make one good shot. And to know that a mortally injured deer can bolt over the hill like you missed him by 3 feet. But if you really want to be sporting you should pick up a recurve bow.
Bull. To be sporting, you should only use a dagger. No, I’m not a hunter. If I were, I’d use the rifle I had.
A little duck tape and a broom handle and you’ve got yourself an awesome little spear. That’s how the ancestors did it.
I have a few semi auto ARs that shoot under an inch at 100 yards. I hate when Fudds think you use a semi because you can’t shoot. No, I use a semi because I’ve built it to weight under 7lbs with a scope, it’s easy to use, easy to carry, and shoots exactly where I want it. Plus, the caliber it shoots can take deer at about the ranges you can use .30-30. Plus I could use subs and a suppressor and not have to wear hearing protection.
He must have taken a really short bus to school if he thinks you need to be fair and sporting when it comes to self defense.
Geezus…
Any advantage in a fight for your life is acceptable.
To wit: “If you find yourself in a fair fight, you are doing something wrong.”
Having to reload when you have 20 attackers…yeah, exactly how is that right?
Hope he goes down in flames…
Several commentators here have already remarked on the stupidity of “sporting” self-defense. I’d like to chime in as a hunter who doesn’t give a damn about being “sporting”. The whole concept of being “sporting” on the hunt is a holdover from an era of wealthy landowners for whom hunting was a form of pure recreation. Whether it’s “sporting” is irrelevant to the goal of harvesting meat for food, otherwise we would never have invented domesticated meat animals. It’s also irrelevant to resource-management goals like habitat preservation or disease containment. Make no mistake, I still comply with laws requiring “fair chase”, just not because I believe it has anything to do with the actual ethics of hunting.
The Second Amendment isn’t about sport.
1) The 2nd A isn’t about hunting.
2) Not every hunter is a sport hunter; some do it for meat in the freezer, not horns on the wall – count me among them. I honestly couldn’t care less if my dinner has a “sporting chance” to escape.
3) The 2nd A isn’t about hunting.
Always good to start your morning off with a laugh.
Expect to see this twit in Congress next year. Philly is about as blue as you can get in PA.
Guy needs to go read a history book, the American Revolution was largely won by using tactics that the Red Coats would have referred to as “un-sporting”.
I have been hunting deer with an AR15 for the past two seasons, started with a full 10rd mag killed 5 deer and have not reloaded it yet, might even make it through next season without doing so. I hate this meme they have created where the only legitimate reason you would hunt with a semi auto is doing mag dumps at the deer. I hunt with an Ar first and foremost because I can… for the folks who feel entitled to further justification, I also prefer it because it is light and doesn’t tire out my shoulders walking around all day and I can confidently take shots off hand, it has no recoil to speak of, and isn’t constantly getting tangled up in brush. When I finally get around to suppressing it, I won’t have to carry hearing pro around in the woods and it will still be lighter and more shoot able than any of my bolt actions.
You don’t think any of that is sporting? Well, very politely, go fvck yourself… Cheers!
True. I love hunting with my bow during bow season, my muzzle loader during muzzle season, and various rifles, including my AR-10 in .308, in rifle season. I’ve actually had more followups–exactly one–from my Browning 30-06 than the .308, As my Dad always said when he heard the neighbors shoot during hunting season, two shots is a probably miss, three shots the deer is still running.
Will the criminal swine be using muskets and bolt action, single shot weaponry?
If not, then it’s not sporting.
But if this is so, I, for one, demand that the police of Pennsylvania and Philadelphia, a city of the first order, return to flintlocks, over under shotguns, and single shot rifles in it’s war on crime, as well, as standing in a single file, out in the open, and fire three shots, without cover.
You know, just to make it sporting.
I guess it did not occur to him how “unsporting” it is to break into someone’s residence to rob, rape, terrorize, injure or kill them. I had to read his remark several times to make sure I was getting what he is saying. I cannot heap any greater ridicule or abuse upon him than those of you who already posted have done. Nice job! Too bad he’s too mentally impaired to understand how ludicrous his statement is.
“It’s not sporting to use a semi-automatic weapon to go hunting…..”
A remington 1100 is cheating??
Why Dan, You must be a purist…or a gun grabber…
Stupidest damned thing ever uttered by a human. Stupider than even, “Hold my beer and watch this.” Making your entire argument based on a no true Scotsman fallacy is the epitome of failing to make an argument at all.
FLAME DELETED
FLAME DELETED
FLAME DELETED
“Not sporting” to use a semi auto for self defense? This isn’t Trading Places fool, this is real life.
“It’s not sporting to use a semi-functional brain to run for office, or frankly, waste oxygen or occupy space on Earth.” –
Philadelphia Congressional candidate Dan Muroff’s opponents, potential constituents, former teachers, embarassed parents…
Fair fights are for suckers.
When your life is on the line, any creature that does not use every means available to it to survive is committing suicide by violating its most basic instinct: self preservation.
He can keep sporting. If I am defending my life either from an attack or hunger I plan to cheat as heavily as I can in order to win.
Note I am not advocating breaking the law in terms of equipment or hunting out of season. Use the best available equipment to give you an advantage over your prey because they are certainly using their better senses to avoid you.
If TTAG is here to showcase stupid authors and their publishers they are doing a great job.
Wow, this idiot really thinks self defense should be turn based? “Ok, I took a shot and missed. Rapist, you get to move now.”
Perhaps, he would find it easier to find fresh produce if he grew a garden or planted some fruit trees in his own backyard, or in pots out on the porch or balcony, you know, took some minimal responsibility for his own existence. But what are the odds of that in this cradle to grave society where your average inner city school kid thinks that apples come from supermarkets and don’t realize that real food doesn’t come in a package.
My definition of “sporting” includes removing the head and mounting it on my wall.
Yes self-defense should be sporting. We could go coon hunting.
If you EVER find yourself in a “fair” fight, SOMEBODY screwed up… BADLY.
I don’t start fights, but if I have to end one, I want the deck stacked as UNFAIRLY in my favor as humanly possible.
Either there are a lot of very tall five year olds running around these days, or there are a lot of thirty five year olds with the intellects of five year olds.
Just as a revolution is not a dinner party, neither is self-defense a friendly game of chess in the park. Asserting how unsporting semi-automatics are for self-defense is tantamount to despairing over the tone of the square root of blue.
The good congrssman-wannabe should arm his security detail with sporting weapons. May I cordially suggest a brace of flintlock pistols? Or perhaps just a rapier.
John Browning invented the greatest hunting shotgun EVER, 113 years ago. Shhhhhhh, the Auto 5.
Wow. Anyone who voted for this guy should be embarrassed. Pretty much all handguns are semiautomatic – pistols and revolvers. There is nothing sporting about self defense or a person’s life and lastly there are good reasons to take a semiautomatic hunting.
I’m not even going to respond to this guy’s view on what’s OK for defense because it’s clearly so very clueless. But, here in PA we currently can’t use semiautomatic rifles or handguns for hunting anything, and autoloading shotguns aren’t allowed in some circumstances. And a strong contingent of Fudds and clueless jackwagons like this guy are hoping to keep it this way in the name of “sport” and “fair chase” – arbitrary concepts in hunting, in my experience. Nevermind that just to the north, in NYS of all places, semiautomatic are OK and none of the doom and gloom predicted by the Fudds has ever come to pass. It’s guys like this who made the correcting this dumb rule so difficult for so many years. So very frustrating…
“Dan Muroff: ‘Guns in the street are easier to find than healthy produce’”
Guns in the street are heavily regulated, indeed the kind most often used “in the street” require permits, while produce is not.
He is arguing to get rid of gun regulations, so the guns dry up like produce in the streets?
Congratulations, Ward Leader Muroff. You’re everything we’ve come to expect of a Democrat politician.
Send this twerp to Upper Darby so he can learn about what being “sporting” is over there.
Duh. Just duh. If homie smacks me upside my old head in a knockout “game” I should give him a sporting headstart before I fill him with 17 boo-lits? Sure…
It’s hard to debate industrial-strength ignorance such as this.
I’ll just point this out: Semi-auto firearms have been in the sporting market since, what, the Browning A-5?
Let’s not forget lever guns that came into favor during the Civil war……
Just another white democrat working to stop civil rights. Historically the democrat party was against gun civil rights for “those” people who lived cities.
If elected he will receive 24 hour protection on speed dial while living in and near DC., at government expense. Some of those defense guns are full auto.
Just when you think the gun-grabbers have reached the limit of stupidity, they reach way down deep and outdo themselves.
You’re right.
Sporting with self-defense would be night vision goggles, an SMG with a suppressor, and a few M67s to even out the odds.
When your enemy rises on the day they have chosen to destroy you, their first act should be to spit out their balls that you fed them the night before. If they can muster it, at that point, let them b1t<h about your sporting-ness, with your sporting purposes weapons.
As someone who has never hunted, wouldn’t your prey have bolted after the first missed shot anyway? That’s what I gather from hunting stories I read anyway. Either that or they just don’t move at all and you could reload a single shot in time?
Seems to me like a semi auto wouldn’t make much difference in hunting. He’s making it sound like you could just mow down scores of animals at once.
Comments are closed.