“And yet, we know that a majority of Americans have tired of the National Rifle Assn.’s position that any restriction on guns is tantamount to incinerating the 2nd Amendment.” – Robin Abcarian, For Isla Vista victim’s father, advocating stricter gun laws ‘not a choice’ [via latimes.com]
majority of Americans don’t realize the threat that is at hand with our civil liberties and constitutional freedoms. The NRA is the oldest civil rights organization we’ve got going in this country at the present time! Remember it’s we the people not we the subjects! Stick that one in your pipe and smoke it Obama!
“latimes.com” is all I needed to know.
“No little kid in this country when I was growing up ever had to worry about being shot and killed in their school. I mean, what kind of country are we?”
No? I remember practicing “duck and cover” drills so when a nuclear device went off, we would be safe…. Snort
I remember those, too. Go out in the hall away from the windows, sit down on the floor, tuck your head between your knees, and kiss your ass goodbye.
When I was growing up, not everyone was a “victim”. You were judged on your actual behavior and not how it made you feel. We were held to standards. There was no such as microaggression. Adults weren’t afraid to challenge a kid’s self esteem if it mean getting the kid on the right path. Eliot Rodger was a product of the non judgmental, self esteem liberal culture, not any gun culture.
Or…instead of pointing out the old civil defense drill, you could just point out the hypocrisy of this argument coming from a liberal, whose usual position was that nothing good “counts” that happened before civil rights, because everyone was racist; Washington and Jefferson owned slaves, so nothing the founding fathers did mattered; and the like. If you want to trot out those arguments, then you’re being intellectually dishonest to then turn around and argue, “why, I tells ya, back in the good ol’ days when I was a kid….” But remember, having already decided that they’re right, it’s only about winning, both socially and politically. Which brings up two points. One, sometimes we need to spend more time winning the war of the undecideds than we do self-righteously preaching to the choir. And two, thankfully, with a liberal writing in the LA Times, the 2d most liberal city in a liberal-controlled state, that’s all this lady is doing for the opposition. No harm caused here, and not even any new talking points provided for the anti-gun argument arsenal (see wut I dun did thar?).
“. . . we need to spend more time winning the war of the undecideds than we do self-righteously preaching to the choir. And . . . with a liberal writing in the LA Times, the 2d most liberal city in a liberal-controlled state, that’s all this lady is doing for the opposition. No harm caused here . . . ”
Absolutely the most important thing for us PotG to keep focused on. This is a battle between:
– 10% – 20% – 30% of gun-rights supporters more-or-less intensely committed
vs.
– 30% – 20% – 10% – 1% of gun-control supporters less-or-more intensely committed.
The outcome – POLITICALLY – will be decided by the 40% who are “undecideds”. The 10% – 1% of intense gun-control supporters will not be dissuaded; certainly not by ad hominem rhetoric.
Whatever the course of human events, it is critical that our “committees of correspondence” address the rationale and sentiments of that 40% before the Spring day when the march to Concord might begin again.
The Pew poll (on the relative importance of gun-rights vs. gun-control) shows – historically – that Americans are decisively swinging in support of the 2A. Important demographics, women and Blacks, are swinging in support of the 2A. The events of Baltimore, Garland, NYC, Ferguson, Moore OK, etc. domestically, with ISIS and Mexico abroad, are having an impact.
We need not strive to urge that an AR-15 hang over every hearth in America. It is necessary and sufficient that every voter prefers that every AR-15 hanging over his neighbors’ hearths remains there. The day that rioters march down his street his neighbor’s AR-15 will be brought down to protect the neighborhood.
We will accomplice this goal by temperance in our discourse, appearance and behavior at every opportunity. It takes only one intemperate remark/appearance/behavior on our part to make a bad impression; it takes a multitude of positive impressions to tip the balance of undecideds to support the 2A.
She looks to be in her mid to late 40s. I guess she forgot all the gang violence in inner cities from the 70s on.
She didn’t forget, but she sees it as GUN-violence, not gang-violence. She thinks the gun is bad, not the criminal gang member.
Back when I was a lad, the demented little souls who would now think about killing their classmates would have been identified and spent some quality time in the principal’s office with the paddle. But then, now we don’t want to single out any kids because they might be “different.” We just drug them up, let them go batsh*t, and then use the result to push for more gun bans and less freedom.
“No? I remember practicing “duck and cover” drills so when a nuclear device went off, we would be safe…. Snort”
Having grown up on military bases, for some reason the schools never bothered with that “duck and cover” crap.
We knew if a giant flashbulb went off in short seconds we wouldn’t be alive to worry about it…
Their proof? Well, see CA, WA and Oregon passed laws, so that’s a majority. She also doesn’t know ANYONE who voted for Nixon. Most shameful, though, is the actual hammer she tries to use to nail us with; a teary anecdote from a grieving father, “all the convincing we should need.”
I wish these anti gun people who don’t actually know anything concerning this issue they feel so strongly about understood that they sound like Todd Akin did when he made his “legitimate rape” comments.
Woefully ignorant.
“Well, see CA, WA and Oregon passed laws, so that’s a majority.” Even the recent “gun show loophole” law that passed in WA did not pass by a huge margin. Most of the votes FOR it came from Seattle area. The rural areas, especially Eastern WA were not for it. And the reason that even Seattle voters voted for it was due to a huge ad campaign funded by Uncle Bloomie. Also, to a lot of folks, it seemed to make sense. Mostly due to the way the ads were done and what many felt was “common sense”. Many voters felt that there was a “loophole” at the gun shows and that felons and others were bypassing the background checks and buying guns there. Not the truth if you looked a the facts but the general feeling was that this was happening and needed to be stopped. Propaganda can be a powerful tool to influence the masses and it worked in this case. However, there are now issues with the law in that there is no practical way to enforce some of the provisions in the law. Law enforcement does not have the budget to do so even if they wanted to. There are also private property and privacy issues with the law. Will have to see where it goes in the long run but it appears at this point that it is a bad law that either needs to be modified or ditched.
I’ll have to work up the actual totals at some point, but roughly speaking something like four out of five yes votes on I-594 came out of King County.
From the beginning, I-594 was pretty much guaranteed to pass. For the most part, voters don’t spend time considering pros and cons. They read the little blurb, and if it sounds good, vote yes. I-594 was the sweetest candy to your average Seattle voter.
The LA Times article neglects to mention that 3 of the 6 victim fatalities in the Isla Vista rampage were stabbed to death. 8 of the 14 people wounded in the rampage were struck by the murderer’s car.
The details don’t fit the narrative but they are worth mentioning.
Other way around … The details don’t fit the narrative so they aren’t worth mentioning.
More like the details did not fit the narrative so they were not mentioned by the LA Times. I suspect that is what you meant. In other words, when you design propaganda you don’t mention inconvenient facts that don’t go along with your argument. Those facts would tend to chip away at the focus of guns being the reason for the incident.
Guns *were* the reason! The guns which should have been present, under the control of “victim’s groups” (meaning groups of victims), and unloading on this little shit before he knifed the second victim.
The constitution can be so tiresome allowing all those nasty freedoms….
Author says “No other developed country in the world has the gun violence problem that we do,” and she has a point. Problem is no other developed country has the same freedoms we do. I wonder if the author would give up her right of free speech in order to control the hate dished out by extremist like ISIS. I bet she might decline, saying submitting to speech limits would only affect the good honest writers and the nasty extremist will disregard the law and continue to publish hate.
So… is Canada the “buffer” for the U.S… or is it the other way around?
Actually, there are many other countries in the world that have much more violence, overall, than we do in this country. I don’t think that “gun violence” alone should be the focus of any discussion on violence. Point being if you take away guns violence can be done using other devices and methods. And a gun can be used as a defense against these other types of violence. These two links show the incidence of homicide in different countries in the world compared to how many guns, per person, are owned . One map for each:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
What is interesting about these two maps is that there is not a direct correlation, in many cases, between gun ownership and homicide rates. In quite a few cases there is much more violence in countries with very low gun ownership. Blows apart the theory that more guns cause more violence.
Take a good look at the maps and Russia. Lower gun ownership rates but higher violence than in the U.S.. And they are a developed country. At least they were before Putin.
You can also look at worsening conditions in Australia and the UK:
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html
Ta-Da, there you go. As I always say, being stabbed or beaten to death is no better than being shot to death.
I get a kick from Papua, New Guinea, and East Timor (north of Australia) which seems to be one large island with no guns to speak of under either government, but one with nearly zero murder and the other HUGE murder.
There is no value in media statements of alleged popular opinion.
For one nobody holds the media accountable to the truth which itself has become a relative concept. If you say it in front of a camera or in a paper for all intents and purposes it becomes fact to a segment of the population.
Which brings me to the reality that there is no baseline for the population. Say the majority supported more gun laws. Ask them which laws they would like to see and 90% will respond with wishes to see laws that are already on the books. If they are asking for laws that already exist do they really support more gun laws? No. They’re just ignorant of current gun laws.
Media, polls, politics and sales. Worst case scenario they are all lying to you all the time. Best case scenario their own biases and ignorance are infecting what they are telling you all the time.
So what is any of it worth? Nada.
Precisely. And Bloomberg’s PR machine (because that’s what MDA and Everytown are, a PR machine) absolutely knows this and exploits it. “We need common-sense gun laws” is their constant refrain, along with ubiquitous comments about “just about anyone can buy any gun they want and carry it anywhere they wish.”
You know, as if there weren’t any laws whatsoever.
As a result, un- or misinformed voters believe that there’s no law against felons in possession, no prohibition on full-auto, and so on.
I think she suffers from the “since all of my friends agree with me, then everyone must feel this way” syndrome. She suffers from Pauline Kael style delusion.
False consensus effect…
But she is an anti, and they believe that they are entitled to just about everything they want. Just ask them!
The “tolerant” showing their tolerance of others…
Current studies from Pew and Gallup (the two pollsters the antis use) show a majority of Americans think there’s enough gun control in the US.
If it is “not a choice”, does that mean he is being blackmailed or otherwise coerced?
What she really meant was: ‘a majority of bloggers on HuffPo and the liberal rag media that I encircle myself in’. That’s her entire world, as seen from libbie LA. You think she’d say the same thing if she was living in say rural PA or Virginia or TX or Carolina?
It must suck to live in an echo chamber.
*looks around* oh, its not so bad…
Hm. Not bad!
It is very sad when a grieved parent uses their child’s coffin as a pulpit from which to preach their political views.
Even sadder when the preaching is for and about things that wouldn’t have made, and won’t make, one jot of difference.
Shut the H_LL up.
We all know that there was never anything but a minority of a minority that supports the LA Times. A majority of the American people haven’t heard of your rag, and it is a quickly dying media (and TTAG has less reposts in it’s online advertising than the ‘news’ does on the LA Times online version. You’re circling the swirly, work hard to pass the turd in front of you, but do it quietly.
Anti-gunners love to ‘quote’ the largely debunked poll suggesting that 90% of Americans support universal background checks. While the data is, at best, suspect, my question is ‘so what?’ At what point did we decide that the RIGHTS guaranteed, not granted, by the US Constitution, were subject to public opinion or majority rules?
Always! If that 90% was remotely correct, a constitutional amendment would be passed within a week. Ergo, a pure-ass lie, as in the people who said that know perfectly well that they are lying, think that is somehow justified.
Set aside for a moment the fact that none of these so-called common sense solutions would solve anything, because none of them had anything to do with the events they antis are exploiting to push them. What I liked was this gem from the original article, quoting Martinez, lawyer father of one of the Santa Barbara spree shooting victims:
“No other developed country in the world has the gun violence problem that we do,” Martinez said. “In this country today, elementary schools have lockdown drills. No little kid in this country when I was growing up ever had to worry about being shot and killed in their school. I mean, what kind of country are we?”
Set aside that “no other developed country…” bit for a moment (we sure do have to do that a lot for these people) and let’s recall this man’s childhood in America.
Judging from his picture, Martinez looks to me to be in his mid 50s. So that puts him in elementary school in the 1960s. They were still doing duck and cover atomic bomb drills in schools in the 1960s. Fear of whole-school incineration surely surpasses active shooter lockdown drills as the hysteria of the day, don’t you find?
Beyond that, most of the gun control laws he champions extending and compounding weren’t even in existence when he was in school. No gun free zones. No background checks. No “assault weapon” bans. Yet, by his own admission, none of the evil that guns do touched the young students back then.
Of course, there was the UT Austin sniper in the 1960s. Maybe Martinez was absent the day they taught current events at his school? That’s OK, we can just set that aside as he continues unleasing his anguish on the country, foolishly setting the stage for even greater carnage.
A majority of people once thought the earth was flat and bleeding out people suffering from fevers was a reasonable medical treatment…
That’s quite a relief, the NRA you say. I had foolishly begun to think it was a half century of Leftards redefining that unfortunate segment of virtually every society on Earth. In the bad old days when I grew up there was a general understanding that the gentleman proclaiming revolution in the vegetable isle or the happy soul masturbating at the Post Office and that precocious teen who couldn’t help experimenting with the neighbor’s kitty were all nuts. Yes, NUTS, not differently abled or uniquely gifted or the particularly odious ‘Special’. No, they were crackers, goofy, unhinged and that the presence of a BMW or pricey address didn’t soften that news . We also had the odd thought that they should be sent to the quiet room until they stopped that kind of behavior for good. But just in case we kept a few guys in white suits with the proverbial butterfly net.
Now that we are a half century plus into this new time of understanding all those former nuts roam about with relative impunity. The greatest cure ever enacted in human history; ban/change the verbiage and the problem ceases to exist, Voila! Then again, been to the public library lately or the Y? The concerned social worker typically drops them en masse for the day at such locations. Oh yeah, keep in mind they are frequently given some extended period’s worth of medication on their own, dare I say cognizance because it would be mean, judgmental and just all around doody to parse it out to them regularly as if they needed an adult to help them. Hell just because an individual is a homicidal maniac doesn’t mean he can’t read a calender or anything. Yeah really glad they were able to clear that up about the NRA, what is it with those guys anyway?
“Yeah really glad they were able to clear that up about the NRA, what is it with those guys anyway?”
They’re vindictive in their grieving over their loss, and the NRA and gun owners make a misleadingly easily definable target for what would otherwise be no retribution and no easy solution to homicidal antisocial behavior.
They may be able to identify me as a target easily, after that they can kiss my booty, I don’t care. But if they intend to steal my property, why don’t they have the stones to come on down and try to do that themselves?
I am tired of anti gunners being anti gunners, but “being tiered” is not an argument of any sort. It’s not even an appeal to emotion. It’s a personal statement about a momentary condition and has no relevance in a discussion about policy.
Please try again when you’re serious enough to engage in an adult conversation.
Ban crazy evil deranged losers! Seriously the boy who shall not be named stabbed and ran over people too. Yikes…
Another professional grief-monger doing what professional grief-mongers do. Here’s a tip: grief does not make someone smarter.
Richard Martinez was a criminal defense lawyer. If he was any good at it, he helped to put dangerous people on the street where they could harm others. Over his career, Martinez probably killed more people indirectly than the Isla Vista killer did directly. But that doesn’t count, does it?
The man is insane.
Worse, the article said he was a public defender. He made a career of believing that all the perps were wrongly accused. Sad but not surprising that he could not comprehend the personal responsibility of the murderer of his own son and had to revert to his old mantra ”not guilty because some aspect of society (in this case the NRA) made him do it.”
Their feelings do not trump my constitutionally recognized right. If they have problems with their feelings that is a personal issue perhaps a medical professional could help them.
Can we start a fund to relocate antis these other “developed” petty tyrannies they’re so wild about? Maybe once they see how brown the grass really is on that side, they’ll change their tune. You can’t expect the feebleminded to comprehend the importance of freedom when they haven’t been shown the alternative.
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