Earlier this week, we ran a quote from President Obama. The President promised rape assault victims “I have your back.” In yesterday’s New York Times, the paper’s editorial team congratulated President Obama and Vice President Biden for Talking Sexual Violence Without Giving Offense. As with Mr. Obama’s empty promise to protect victims of rape after the fact, I found the remarks deeply offensive . . .
“Our daughters, our sisters, our wives, our mothers, our grandmothers have every single right to expect to be free from violence and sexual abuse,” Mr. Biden said. “No matter what she’s wearing, no matter whether she’s in a bar, in a dormitory, in the back seat of a car, on a street, drunk or sober — no man has a right to go beyond the word ‘no.’ And if she can’t consent, it also means no.”
No, not that bit. That bit’s fine, obviously. It’s what the pols said afterwards that’s wrong on all sort of levels . . .
He added: “Men have to step up to the bar here. Men have to take more responsibility. Men have to intervene.”
So close. No Joe, rapists have to take more responsibility. Well, they have to be forced to take responsibility. There are two ways that can happen: society can hold rapists responsible for their crime(s) (through arrest and incarceration) or their intended victims can hold rapists responsible for their assault (by attacking them at the point of attack).
Setting aside the completely ignored question of male rape (which gets one mention in the report released during the press conference), assuming that most law enforcement officials are men, the arrest and incarceration strategy is the current male “rape intervention” strategy. Effectiveness? Reliable stats on rape conviction rates are hard to come by. This much we know: post facto punishment for rapists is cold comfort to women who’ve been raped.
The female rape intervention strategy is clear enough: shoot the bastard. Or at least show him a gun and give him the chance not to continue his assault. We have no idea how many rapes are prevented by women using firearms in their own defense. Common sense tells us that preventing rape delivers a better outcome than punishing rapists. Not that the two approaches are mutually exclusive.
I know: I’m deliberately misinterpreting Mr. Biden’s remarks. Biden and the President were not calling on men to “intervene” through the criminal justice system. They were arguing for a cultural shift amongst males on rape.
Mr. Obama also emphasized male accountability: “We’ve got to keep teaching young men in particular to show women the respect they deserve and to recognize sexual violence and be outraged by it, and to do their part to stop it from happening in the first place.”
Mr. Obama’s remarks place the blame for female rape on men who are not rapists. Sound familiar? The post-Newtown push for civilian disarmament was fueled by the same [intentionally] misplaced zeal: blame and punish law-abiding gun owners for the actions of killers whom gun owners did nothing to encourage or support. Attack the culture (i.e. uncaring bitter clingers) not the criminal.
When it comes to sexual violence, tone matters. A new report on rape and sexual assault from the White House Council on Women and Girls notes that if men believe that their peers accept abusive behavior, they’re less likely to intervene. Conversely, “when men speak out against abuse, other men are more likely to step in to neutralize a risky situation and prevent an assault.”
I’m sure there are some “risky situations” where men could “speak out” to prevent rape, but is that the majority of sexual assaults? I assume that most rapes are surprise attacks where there are no witnesses. How does “men speaking out” prevent that? “Male intervention” – the rape solution offered by the Vice President and his boss – is bound to have no statistically significant effect on the likelihood of rape. Or its prevention. No wonder the report in question concludes with a classic straw man argument.
Sexual assault is pervasive because our culture still allows it to persist. According to the experts, violence prevention can’t just focus on the perpetrators and the survivors. It has to involve everyone. And in order to put an end to this violence, we as a nation must see it for what it is: a crime. Not a misunderstanding, not a private matter, not anyone’s right or any woman’s fault. And bystanders must be taught and emboldened to step in to stop it. We can only stem the tide of violence if we all do our part.
It’s certainly true that violence prevention is a group effort. It’s also true that society has come a long way from the days when [some] men thought it was OK to rape a woman if she dressed or acted in a sexually provocative manner. (Again, what of male rape?) But there’s no getting around the fact that rapists gotta rape. The best way to prevent rape – for both the intended victim and society – is to stop it at the sharp end. With a gun.
“No matter what she’s wearing…”
Didn’t Chris Rock have something to say about that?…
Dave Chappelle said something like “She may not be a whore but she is wearing a whore’s uniform.”
I thought it was Rock. But yes, he took it ad absurdium when he said he’d go out in public in a police uniform and if asked for help, he’d say: “Just because I’m dressed this way……”
Even a whore has the right to turn down a client.
Even a lawyer.
But if this saves the life of just one child, oh wait, sorry, wrong liberal argument….
Well done Robert.
So, if I’m understanding correctly….
A man who has done everything in his power to undermine the American nuclear family wants men to start expressing the values that are slowly dying with said family?
Certainly. Just like the party doing everything it can to squeeze out the middle class, destroy small business, and eliminate entrepreneurship is the champion of liberty and the middle class.
Tu quoque! Tu quoque! When you got nothin’ else it’s time to tu quoque!
Bingo! Just like the same guy (who lives with 24/7 ARMED protection for himself, his family and his hangers-on) wants to disarm every law-abiding citizen in the country.
Can you say “hypocritical sack of excrement”, boys and girls?
“Can you say “hypocritical sack of excrement”, boys and girls?”
I could, but that would be an insult to honest excrement.
Not to mention that after doing everything possible to disarm the people (and thus remove the burden of responsibility from us) he is now asking us to assume even more responsibility than is natural to us. Liberty an responsibility are two sides of the Sami coin, you can’t grant or take one without the other.
No worries, no one will ever accuse a Demokrat in this administration of using ‘logic’. These people are better actors than…well, real actors.
What’s so sad and maddening and disgusting and dangerous is that they actually seem to believe their own lines…as do their sheeple followers.
Oh, they absolutely do believe their own lies. That’s part of what makes them so dangerous. They really, truly, believe that they’re doing “the right thing.” And those kind of psychopaths never change, that’s why it’s so important to keep the reins of power out of their hands.
I hope there’s enough sanity high up enough in the “organization” to stop this barstid before too many people have to die.
What “outrages” me about “sexual violence” is that inappropriate touching or groping are lumped together with penetrative rape as “sexual assault”.
Both acts are unwanted and to be condemned, but they are not the same in severity, violation or the scars they leave. While I don’t wish any inappropriate and unwanted sexual contact to happen to my daughter, I’m sure most of us with daughters would agree that we’d be a lot angrier if the latter form of “sexual assault” happened to them.
Oh, it’s worse than that. The study purporting that 1 in 4 women are victims of sexual assault included counting women responding yes to questions such as:
1. Have you ever regretted having sex?
2. Have you ever felt pressured to have sex (whether or not you ended up havivng sex)
3. Has anyone ever made a sexual comment that made you feel uncomfortable?
Search the net and you can find a lot of criticism of the study. The figure keeps getting used, but it was the result of the researchers being so unhappy with the actual numbers of true assault- physical contact after clearly indicating it was not wanted/or the person unable to give consent–that they kept expanding the definition.
Now, if Obama truly has my daughters’ backs, then he’ll push for nationwide shall-issue concealed carry.
If those are the actual questions they must have grossly under sampled married women. I’d wager that number 2 alone would push it closer to 3/4….
“Now, if Obama truly has my daughters’ backs, then he’ll push for nationwide shall-issue concealed carry.”
We should accept nothing less than full Constitutional Carry, i.e., screw the gubmint, carry anyway.
You are late to the party on this one.
Rape is the “big game” trophy of Feminism. All male interest, touching, even consensual sex is rape if the girl decides later that she’s embarrased by it.
Any woman who cries rape at any time must be taken 100% seriously. In constrast no woman can be held accountable for any situation she put herself in that allowed the “rape” to happen.
Meanwhile of course the women should be utterly defenseless, as well as wear whatever she likes including ho clothes and stay at a party late at night, drunk enough to blackout alone with 5-20 fraternity brothers. If she gets “raped” it the men’s fault in every way, completely. She has every right to do as she pleases. This is where slut walks come in.
Men compare this to taking your Ferrari, which you lovingly rub 4 times a day with a baby’s cloth diaper and parking it in the most crime-ridden area of the planet, unlocked, with the keys in it. Then react with surprise and contemptuousness that someone would have the audacity to do such a thing.
React when someone steals it and potentially wrecks it.
Sorry that needed to be in there. See my link below for the whole comparison. Illuminating. I think I even commented on the article (or one very much like it) by leaving this very YouTube video clip.
Should women be held accountable for putting themselves in bad situations. No they shouldn’t, but they should be educated to avoid such situations.
Not that I wish this kind of thing to happen to women, but why should this be the one situation where people are exempted from bearing responsibility for putting themselves in a high risk situation?
Our compassion for people is mitigated by our contempt for their bad judgment when they hurt or kill themselves. Yet, somehow, victims of sexual violation get a pass?
Criticism, contempt or disdain of certain behaviors is an integral ingredient in the moral glue of a society.
A homeowner who leaves his home with the doors and windows wide open and having posted in the internet he’ll be out of town for a week is being stupid. They have made themselves an easy victim. They aren’t guilty of complicity if a burglary occurs. I have less sympathy for them since they were stupid. But yes, they still are victims and the folks who burglarized them are still guilty of theft and should be held accountable.
Which is why a good parent teaches their kids to lock up their stuff. And teaches their kids that alcohol impairs judgement, how you dress sends messages about who you are, people will judge you based on your appearance, people will try and take advantage of you when you’re drunk. The uncomfortable truths of life.
If someone gets killed in a bad neighborhood, just walking around while wearing a “I hate (insert racial slur)” sign, ultimately the person who kills them is at fault. They committed a heinous crime (murder).
I think the same /does/ apply to women who make bad choices like drinking too much on a first date at a strange man’s house, etc. Ultimately, the fault is on the rapist. But I agree that people can avoid certain situations because bad people are out there and they are not going away.
We lock our doors. We don’t let our children go out after dark. As a society we take precautions against offering scum any low hanging fruit. I don’t understand why some women absolutely refuse to acknowledge that sometime bad things can be avoided with better life choices.
The continuing PC repression of the legitimacy of our expressed contempt for the egregiously stupid behaviors of others is perhaps the most toxic trend in our society. It’s effects are so pervasive in the culture that no matter how poor your decision making or what foolish thing you’ve done you must be a ‘victim’ of someone else if the outcomes of the behavior are detrimental to you.
100% of non-Africans mauled by lions exposed themselves to the presence of a lion. If you complain of being mauled common sense indicates that the best advise is to avoid the presence of lions.
Put another way and paraphrasing a popular meme here; Avoid doing stupid things in stupid places with stupid people.
Well, they should at least ask themselves, “Is he asking me up to his room to play cribbage?”
“Any woman who cries rape at any time must be taken 100% seriously. In constrast no woman can be held accountable for any situation she put herself in that allowed the “rape” to happen.”
EXCEPTION: Any woman who was raped by William Jefferson Clinton, Teddy Kennedy, or any other Democrat politician. THOSE women are obviously lying about their alleged rapes.
“Meanwhile of course the women should be utterly defenseless, as well as wear whatever she likes including ho clothes and stay at a party late at night, drunk enough to blackout alone with 5-20 fraternity brothers. ”
As a guy, I can do the same, and the worst that’ll happen is I’ll wake up with a penis drawn on my forehead instead of inside me. How would you feel if you went to your local bar, got too drunk (or just slipped one with a few sleepy pills), woke up with someone’s junk in your trunk, and everybody said it was your fault for getting drunk?
“Men compare this to taking your Ferrari, which you lovingly rub 4 times a day with a baby’s cloth diaper and parking it in the most crime-ridden area of the planet, unlocked, with the keys in it. Then react with surprise and contemptuousness that someone would have the audacity to do such a thing.”
Most rapes are not from strangers. It’d be like getting drunk, loaning your car to the designated driver, then finding he went to Tijuana and had an orgy in it. And then being told “you lent it to him, it’s your fault”.
I would feel mighty stupid ending up drunk enough and alone enough (i.e. no one watching out for me) that I ended up getting violated.
MY FAULT for putting myself in that situation in the first place. I tell my daughters the same thing and that’s what my father taught me. Bars are havens for predators. Anyone who doesn’t know that or doesn’t believe that needs an education right quick.
For those who do know it, I like to call watching out for myself while I am there: BASIC COMMON SENSE.
If you get “too drunk,” then yes, whatever happens to you is, in fact, your fault for getting too drunk.
F’n idiot.
Have you ever been a 100#, attractive woman? No, I didn’t think so. Then you have zero idea what it is like to be vulnerable in a situation where you are 1. Alone in a crowd with many men, including several that may be predators (i.e. without friends nearby or anyone watching out for you) 2. Too drunk to be able to be responsible for yourself OR drunk enough that your judgement is altered
Yet this is the situation that young girls put themselves into. BY CHOICE.
Yeah, so if they end up raped they have zero accountability for that? Your comment is really very, very classy. Glad you weren’t My Dad. My Dad told me when I was a young girl:
1. Stay with your friends, make sure you all look out for each other
2. It’s ok to drink socially, don’t drink so much that your judgement is altered
3. If you feel scared or nervous and the top two things are off the table, call me no matter what time is or where you are and I will come and get you.
This is what Good Fathers tell their daughters. F’n assholes like you have daughters who dress like harlots and get their vaginas rammed at frat parties.
” Mina commented on Random Thoughts About Rape and Guns.
in response to Rich Grise:
If you get “too drunk,” then yes, whatever happens to you is, in fact, your fault for getting too drunk. F’n idiot.
“Have you ever been a 100#, attractive woman? No, I didn’t think so. Then you have zero idea what it is like to be vulnerable in a situation where you are 1. Alone in a crowd with many men, including several that may be predators (i.e. without friends nearby or anyone watching out for you)”
What exactly motivated you to put yourself alone in a crowd with many predators? Didn’t you know? Were you lied to? Did you think you were going to play canasta? Or were you merely irresponsible?
“2. Too drunk to be able to be responsible for yourself OR drunk enough that your judgement is altered”
That’s just what I said. If you drink too much and get so drunk that you’re going to do stupid crap, then you are an idiot for getting too drunk and losing situational awareness.
Or are you trying to have it both ways? Are you trying to tell me that you should be allowed to act like an idiot but yet not be accountable for the consequences of your own stupidity and negligence?
No, you stupid a##hole, I am saying EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.
1. A woman is responsible for being cognizant of her own safety! She should not be out late, alone and drunk. Yet this is exactly what many women do and expect, no DEMAND, that nothing bad happen to her. That is stupid.
2. Many men out late at bars and other similar types of gathering places are in fact predators. Any girl/woman who does not face this fact is guilty of putting herself into a situation. In which case she should be DOUBLY sure she’s not alone, out late and drunk.
Get it? Good. Thank you.
“2. Many men out late at bars and other similar types of gathering places are in fact predators. Any girl/woman who does not face this fact is guilty of putting herself into a situation. In which case she should be DOUBLY sure she’s not alone, out late and drunk.
Get it? Good. Thank you.”
Well, yeah. A girl shouldn’t go out and get drunk. We agree on that. Well, it’s OK for her to get drunk if she feels like it, but nobody else can or should be held accountable for her safety if she does so. Around a bunch of trusted friends, sure! Knock yourself out! Party on!
But don’t go stupid places where stupid people are doing stupid things, and doubly so if in a stupid state! 😉
(double-entendre unintentional, but noted and I like it!)
Yeah, this goes along with the idea that I would prefer not to use my gun in self defense. So to reduce the risk of that, I don’t go to shady places, and I don’t associate with shady people.
The problem with the sexual harassment/rape “movement”,is that women themselves have failed to define it.
According to criminal law and logic, rape is a specific act of evil. The feminist extremists have regrettably abused the meaning of the word to apply to any instance a woman feels like.This is a problem, as women define their world through emotional relevance. A woman who “feels ” like she was raped is not the same as a victim of an actual rape.Until that distinction is reinforced as a social norm, men will simply stand aside on the matter.
I’ve known men in the military who dated women, had sex with them, and then were demoted because the women they were with retroactively revoked consent-usually because the military men said “NO” to a long term relationship.
My current roommate almost landed in prison because he brought a incoherently drunk friend to our place , where she passed out.The next morning she woke up and assumed he did something when she was passed out, and phoned the cops.It took several phone calls to irate witnesses before it was clear to the damsel and Old Bill that the only assault which took place was her unwarranted threats to my roommate,who was doing the right thing.
Funny how an armed citizen can easily deal with sooo many of society’s problems. People, it isn’t that hard to figure out.
It’s not hard for you or I to see that correlation. But the people you have to try to convince (readers here we are the proverbial choir) are Antis. For those people armed citizens are never the answer. An Anti lives in a magical world where there are no armed citizens and thus cannot even conceive of such a thing in their mind, more or less see the good armed self defense does. That’s why they will never see armed citizens as the answer.
People who have never met gun owners think that gun owners are snagle toothed, snarling, monsters; that stand 8 feet tall, with ragged hair and claws, that at a monuments notice, with no provocation, will pull out untold numbers of guns with multiple arms and fire randomly and for hundreds of rounds. There are 2 worlds in America.
The first is a world where you don’t own a gun, no one you have ever met owns guns, and you cant even imagine what people who own guns are like. So you turn on the news and see the only person with a gun you’ve ever seen outside a movie, shooting up a school or a mall or committing some horrible crime. So in this first world, that becomes the unconscious definition of all “people who have guns”: Future mass murders. Without exception. For the Antis there is no such thing as a good citizen with a gun.
The second world is a culture of personal responsibility and responsible gun ownership, where you turn on the news and are simply awestruck, dumbfounded, by people who not only lack the tools to protect themselves but for some unimaginable reason want to come and take your tools right out of your hands. (Even if they need guns to take guns)
I know these 2 worlds exist, and only these 2, because in my life I have lived in both. There is no in-between. When you live in the 1st you can’t imagine the horrors of the second. Once you live in the second you can’t imagine the vulnerability of being disarmed in the first. Thankfully I’m recovering from my time in the first. But I think its important that gun owners understand that the Antis don’t understand nor do they want to. By our very existence we are the stuff of their nightmares. The debate isn’t about logic or statistics or the truth. On a government level the motives may be different, but I am talking about the personal level. The Antis you see in walking down the street, are conditioned to fear gun owners like a child fears the Boogie Man.
They would happily live in a world of common rapes at knife point as long as no one had any scary guns. They don’t care about the truth.
They are afraid.
And fear is the mind killer.
Can I get an AMEN?!!! You nailed it.
Yep; I grew up in the Bay Area; the bastion of the Liberal/Progressive. The I that I have grown to become would be looked at with fear and horror by the old me. And I look back at the old me and see a person in denial and delusion based in fear of my own potential for taking responsibility for my own protection. And you are right, the POTG are the stuff of nightmares to what I was before. It’s the nightmare of what true freedom requires.
While I’m sure most gun owners are reasonable, the vocal minority of them tend to be very… extreme. Sometimes they even tend to reinforce said stereotypes.The comments on this article alone are sort of scary.
And no, guns don’t magically fix everything. Especially rape. Yea, lets see you use a gun with a BAC of 0.2, because nobody ever gets drunk. Lets see you use a gun with 3 sleeping pills in you, because roofies don’t exist. 80+ % of rapes don’t involve force at all.
By the way some people talk, if you could just walk down to any store and buy an AK without any background checks or anything, that would solve obesity, world hunger, any socioeconomic equalities, and the conflict in Israel.
But no, gun control isn’t the only issue ever to exist.
I never said it was the only issue. What I said was, all of America is polarized along this issue.
There are people who own guns and can’t image life without them. And there are people who never have owned a gun and can’t imagine how civilized people in a civilized nation allow guns to continue to exist.
There is no middle because there is no middle existence for guns. There’s no “maybe gun” either people own them or not.
I have seen the effect of the polarizing effect of this issue first hand. I have to hide myself from friends every day. I have too be careful what I say everywhere I walk, lest i let some statement slip out that might slightly hint that I own a gun, and brand me a monster.
Amen, brother!
100% agree.
Since when did “awareness” do anything but raise money for a cause?
And unlike cancer, rape is not an issue that will ever be cured by throwing money at it.
Rapists don’t need a pill or chemo, they need a bullet.
Cancer, stupidity, homosexuality, etc will never be “cured”. They are genetically based and even if we had the most outrageous eugenics policy in place, it would not be able to account for spontaneous mutations.
The Culture will change when the genetic propensity to rape is removed, it’s called culling.
only if the people you are talking about culling are the feminists.
See: “spontaneous mutations”. Cross reference with “unavoidable”.
If Fems are raping yes. But female teachers, because their idealized man fail to materialize, boning teenage classroom boys get a pass.
Like OBCare, we can make exceptions
“Since when did “awareness” do anything but raise money for a cause?”
Mind if I use this?
Actually, maybe a poison pill or death by chemo isn’t a bad idea.
I don’t understand what we’re supposed to do here. I don’t know any rapists or domestic abusers, so it’s going to be kind of hard to spread the word on my end. Do they need us all to just stop being so manly? Maybe they should buy us all free tickets to “That Awkward Moment” so that we may study more closely what level of metrosexualism they require of us?
“Do they need us all to just stop being so manly?”
YES
We’re supposed to be dainty, “nonthreatening” beta males in wrinkled shirts, our sisters’ skinny jeans, fedoras five sizes too small and thick black rimmed glasses. And soft, deep, dewy eyes…
Crap, I’ve got a LONG way to go;
http://www.caliqo.com/ebay/hats_masks_gloves/johnnydepp_fedora04.jpg
hotchickswithdouchebags.com
“Do they need us all to just stop being so manly?
YES”
This is very correct. The underpinnings of feminism is to turn all men into being more like women and all women into being more like men. Equality = Sameness.
Therefore men having balls is an affront to them. This is why gun control is huge for them. Guns are like men’s big balls that they can carry around. If there is no room in the culture for balls, how can there be room for guns?
Feminism is about emasculating men. Gun control is a huge part of that.
I would not agree with that entirely. Defining equality in terms of getting women more male rights, responsibilities, etc is just as big a problem for feminism because it defines equal by a male frame of reference.
What you describe is the result of an endless corruption of feminist ideals by too many ass hats calling them feminists without having even touched the scholarship in any appreciable manner. So as with anything else, the loudest, most extreme, and most ignorant parts representative of feminism get the most attention and the result is we now conflate actual feminists with these people who operate under a thin guise of equality but are really talking about turning oppression around on the former oppressors. Its just further bigotry and sexism under the guise of equality.
IMO if women, and men for that matter, want to be considered equal and deserving of more than just the most basic of human rights and dignity, they need to start acting like it.
And to your earlier point Mina, I agree. If you play the part (dressing like a whore) don’t be suprised when you are judged that way.
You are either unaware of or dismissing the fact that the Liberal left has thoroughly subverted any good intentions that might have existed as part of Feminism. Feminism as you are imagining it no longer exists.
All that is left is a huge percentage of short-haired, man-jawed, shreiking girls shaking their fists and stamping their feet about every imagined slight by anyone in their general vicininty because Patriarchy!!
You must have missed the viral post from two weeks ago wherein all Penis in Vagina sex = Rape. Yes, I said ALL.
I think I addressed that rather fully actually, I just left out ‘liberal left’. Please note, I’m talking about feminism in a historical context, there is nothing ‘imagined’ about what I said. I would agree with you to the extent that publicly we now almost exclusively have to deal with and see the abomination that feminism has turned into; in an academic setting it is an entirely different story though. There is more exposure to the genuine side of feminism so to speak.
No I did not see the post but I’m not surprised some idiot would equate all penetrative sex to rape.
From above, ‘If you play the part (dressing like a whore) don’t be suprised when you are judged that way.’
I don’t understand the logic here. Rape is judgement? And it’s OK to judge/rape a whore? Or anyone who dresses like one?
@Virk
That’s not what I mean; I was commenting on a much earlier comment further up the thread. My only point is people present themselves in certain ways and are surprised when they are judged in a corresponding fashion. Plain and simple, don’t be surprised when people treat you the way they perceive you. It applies everywhere in life, why should it be different here?
Does being judged a whore/slut/etc invite sexual assault upon you? No, obviously it does not mean that to me, you, or most other rational/normal/sane/good people. At no point can any reasonable person construe slutty dress = rape me or some other tacit invitation. But when we are talking about rapists, criminals, et al, we really are not talking about reasonable people.
To be fair there was a time when women wanted to be equals. When they fought for the burden of responsibility. Now like many other special interest groups they have given up responsibility for false security.
no, it’s even worse. It has become subverted completely by the Left, the Socialist and Communists.
Feminism is a vehicle for leftist ideologies. 100%
This is my 20# trout which I am using to smack you upside the head!
Sure: http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/weekly-political-humor/
I think Obama and Biden need to read the results of surveys done on the topic of date rape and the beliefs both young men and young women have about what they believe are reasonable expectations of sexual engagement in a date setting….
https://alphaisassumed.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/rape-culture-vultures/
” Women don’t need a gun to defend against rape, just teach men not to be rapists” WOW! I am continually dumbfounded at the complete disconnect from reality that this mentality represents.
Don’t take responsibility for your defense, just depend on those horrible men to not be horrible, yep; that’s feminist empowerment for you.
The culture of complicity. You have a sack….guilty of charge regardless. Sorry lady, I don’t hang out with rapist. Ergo cannot have “a conversation”.
That their way of thinking survives and thrives shows how incredibly safe our society actually is. If the leftists get their way, more and more people will get rude awakenings.
So true. America is safer then its ever been.
She takes her personal experience and says that a gun wouldn’t have helped her because she was raped by someone she knew. She admits that she wouldn’t have been able to take the life of the person who raped her. I would encourage her to research the millions of DGU’s that occur with a gun being presented, no shots being fired, and the threat being minimized.
Women can’t carry firearms, they wouldn’t fit in their clutch purses with the chapstick and phone and with such tight dresses on-body carry just isn’t an option. You wouldn’t want someone to feel something weird while they’re all grabby.
That mindset isn’t so foreign. These are the same people that think banning guns will end all crime and violence. They look at the direct cause of a problem and try to ban or stop it. Criminals commit crimes with guns, obviously the gun is the problem so ban guns. Rapists are most often men, obviously men are the problem and must be changed. You can’t blame the victim, that would be wrong, they couldn’t have done anything differently or been proactive to avoid such a situation, it just happens and it is completely random. They’re VICTIMS!!11oneelven Then again, their point might just be “bad things shouldn’t happen”. I agree, rape shouldn’t happen, crime shouldn’t happen, murder shouldn’t happen, but it’s unrealistic to build your platform on that. They operate under the frame that they cannot be held responsible for anything, it’s always up to someone else to protect them and take care of them. In this case they argue all women should rely on all men to protect them from other men. They simplify the situation so much they’re not really saying anything.
Obama/Biden’s message on rape: “It shouldn’t happen and men need to up the stereotypical male protector role to save women”.
That’s a message feminists will latch onto…
A lot of people out there obviously didn’t get the talk from their parent(s) that goes something like this:
“There are bad people out there and they are never going away.”
There are bad people in every part of the world, and in every walk of life, who will hurt you if you give them the chance. They have been there since the dawn of time and will be there at the end of it. They will always be out there. There is no law, no policy, no wordy speech or slogan or catchphrase, no amount of funding for this agenda or that that will make bad people stop being bad. The only thing you can do, is your best to protect yourself and those closest to you.
Core of the problem, not limited to Fems. To live in the utopia with an invisible shield of culture, proper manors, and words solving all aggression. Good luck with dat.
This is an issue for the Federal Gov’t? Or perhaps ONE MORE distraction from reality?
B.
I think we’re missing the bigger picture here. While I think rape IS a heinous crime, this is a false-flag operation plain and simple. And get used to it. Democrats want to use the same game plan from 2008 in the next presidential election.
Only this time, rather than telling us we’re racist, they’re going to feed us a steady diet of how sexist America is. That way a ‘historic’ election can occur because, once again, we feel too guilty about how ‘sexist’ we’ve been told we are to pay attention to the shortcomings of the female in the race.
This is just another liberal ploy to silence opposition. “You made stupid decisions which led to the deaths of several Americans; your judgement must be questioned” will be followed by cries of “sexist!” Just like “your plan to socialize healthcare is flawed and will cost much more than you are saying” led to cries of “racist!”
There is a war on masculinity. Look around – it is everywhere.
Much better to scream sexist than racist nowadays becuase it affects only the section of the population with balls.
I hope that Americans will have learned something from Obamacare, and see past the rhetoric a bit more clearly this time. About 1/3 of America seems to be genuinely Marxist (though most of those don’t understand that they are Marxists), so maybe I’m hoping for too much.
See Bill Whittle’s ‘Afterburner’ video about PC and Critical Theory as put forth by the Frankfurt School.
He has a bunch of different videos. Can you send a link / specific title?
Guys, don’t rape chicks. Now, I know that just about everybody knows that rape is bad, but let’s be extra clear: No Raping.
Damn, that was easy! What should we fix next, Joe? Immigration/Refugees? Guys, you really should stay in your own country. I mean, we’re not going to kick you out, but we are going to frown at you.
Rape is bad, M’kay?
http://i.imgur.com/Cog7PZJ.jpg
Being fairly conversant on the sociological research on rape, I have to disagree. There are other ways for men (and women) to intervene to prevent rape.
You seem to be operating from the common “stranger attacking from the bushes” idea of rape. This is in fact very uncommon. The typical rapist knows his victim, his preferred weapons are alcohol and drugs, and he operates by exploiting a number of social conventions to ensure his victim will not be believed or that his actions will be excused.
There are behavioral red flags that onlookers can spot, such as pushing alcohol on a woman who’s refusing (on top of serving the purpose of intoxication, this sort of rapist systematically tests their mark’s reaction to having their boundaries violated). Calling them on that behavior can then be very effective in disrupting his plans, since it breaks through the veneer of social toleration that allows him to do his thing.
My first (and only) time in a club I saw this very thing happening. I’ve rarely been that angry, never been back to a club since. I’ve never been to a bigger hive of scum and villainy…
http://www.caintv.com/rand-paul-calls-bill-clinton-a
I agree with this.
The she knew her attacker is canard. Yeah Susie knew who the neighbor was who raped her. He lived down the block. There is “knowing” and then there is knowing. Many crime victims “know” their attackers. They are generally well known neighborhood thugs.
It is not a canard. These are not people whom the victim knows from around the neighborhood, but people that move in their same social circle. That’s how they’re able to do things like push alcohol on them or invade their personal space with lots of people around, without setting off alarm bells.
Yeah. Tried to intervene and received a diatribe about my paternalistic and mysoginistic attitude towards women (apparently including those who lacked the balance to remain seated on a bar stool) had no respect for a woman’s right/ability to make and be responsible for her own decisions. As well as being some kind of prude. Welllll, that was the idea but the language was more earthy, slurred and cut short by the requirement for a slightly less inebriated friend to drag her to the toilet and hold her hair. The guys she’d just met however, were still willing to wait for and escort them from the premises.
She was quite right, she had every legal right to get plowed, meet strangers, go home with them. I had no legal right to intervene other than the words of caution I imparted.
Yeah, but it’s YOUR fault if she was raped! she obviously had no personal responsibility for the stupid choices she made that got her into a vulnerable situation – getting drunk, going home with people she just met, refusing any reasonable advice.
So from now on, based on the Bamster’s speech, if I see a woman getting drunk in a bar with a male anywhere within 25′ of her, I will be calling 911 and reporting a “rape in progress”. Right?
It takes a village….
“The best way to prevent rape – for both the intended victim and society – is to stop it at the sharp end. With a gun.”
People have a fundamental right to self-defense, and by extension, effective (i.e. armed) self-defense. Yes, there probably needs to be a cultural shift, but the reality is that no matter how much “awareness” BS you put people through, there are always going to be individuals who just don’t care and are going to do what they’re going to do regardless. So assuming you get this (in my opinion mythical) cultural shift, you’re still going to have a subset who will continue unabated. Is that an “acceptable loss”? I don’t think so. Stopping attacks at “the pointy end” is the single most effective form of rape prevention, period.
All that being said, the feminist movement has, in a lot of ways oddly enough, worsened this problem with the idea that young women should be able to wear anything, go anywhere, do anything, say anything. Well, we don’t live in a land of candy and unicorns. I spend a lot of time on a college campus, and seeing what some of the girls wear is just shocking. They’re going to classes on a daily basis in clothing that is in many cases one small step above lingerie, and then scream bloody murder when A) nobody takes them seriously, in a professional sense or B) they get viewed by their peers as sexual objects. Even the campus police are fed up with it, and have gotten in hot water for being blunt with students about their personal behavior. It boils down to the tried and true axiom of avoiding stupid people, doing stupid things, in stupid places, at stupid times. The corollary to that is that you cannot BE the stupid person doing a stupid thing, at a stupid time and place. A lot of people would be a lot safer if they stopped living in a world they think should exist, and started living in the world that is.
Sorry, but rape has got sod-all to do with what women wear. Men who rape don’t do so because they’re overwhelmed by feelings of attraction, they do it because they like to rape. It’s their “thing” – they get off on non-consensual sex.
If I, an old white guy, decide to walk around SE DC in the middle of night does that have nothing to do with the fact that I have just awoken in the hospital after being severely beaten by gangbangers?
A false analogy. You are still stuck in the mindset that rapes are committed by strangers jumping out of the bushes, and that they are motivated by attraction the way muggers are attracted to the money in your wallet.
The research does not support this. Most rapists know their victims. The use of overt force is rare. Women are raped all the time whose attire (and/or body) do not in the least conform to societal norms of conventional attractiveness.
The problem with that argument is that it’s never been a defense to claim in court “hey, this guy totally got what was coming to him when I came up, pulled a knife, and told him to give me his wallet. Walking around like that all well-dressed, clearly rich and willing to part with money, with a wallet in a pocket that wasn’t buttoned. And he GAVE me the wallet! he WANTED me to take it!”
The jury would laugh that SOB all the way to the maximum sentence, plus extra for being stupid.
But rapists DO claim “she wanted it. she dressed that way, and came here, and clearly because she didn’t force me to stop, she wanted it. If she didn’t want it, she would have stayed home, she wouldn’t have worn that, she wouldn’t have passed out. It wasn’t rape, she wanted it.”
That guy has a pretty good chance of walking.
See the problem?
How politically correct. When my son was undergrad at the University of Minnesota some female friends of his got invited to a frat party at UW in Madison. The get there about 9Pm and take one look around and see that this could be a bad situation. Do they stay around because “it’s there right?” No, they immediately call my son back in Minneapolis and ask him to get bail them out. It’s 3.5 hour drive from Madison. He gets in the car and bails them out. The lesson here isn’t that my son is a great guy but the girls in question took responsibility for their own safety, sized up the situation and bailed. That it was responsible people do. If they stumble on to a bad place they leave.
MA Matt: But do you think anybody has any sympathy for the dumb @$$ white guy who was walking around in the ghetto in the middle of the night? Of course not. They call him an idiot. Just because you have a right doesn’t mean you should exercise it.
A victim being an idiot does not excuse or justify criminal behavior. Except in a rape trial, where the defense SUCCESSFULLY makes the argument that because the victim did not stop the attack, the criminal can’t be held responsible.
Congratulations to your son’s friends. That was absolutely the right call. But if they hadn’t made that call and drank to the point of incapacitation, and the frat ran a train on them while they were passed out, would you say that the frat brothers should NOT be charged with rape? Or taking it a step further, if they had been intoxicated and called for a ride home, and someone less morally upstanding than your son had answered, and raped them after they passed out, would that be their fault as well for trusting the wrong person?
I agree that people SHOULD keep themselves safe, but unfortunately in rape cases, that belief is used to EXCUSE the rapist’s behavior, or is used as sufficient reason to not even bother prosecuting the case.
Matt, the problem with accepting politically correct assumptions is that you ultimately remove personal responsibility from the equation which is exactly the point of PC. Neither you nor the criminal is absolved from blame when you do something stupid and irresponsible. The woman who gets blind drunk at a frat party or the dumb white guy who feels free to roam the ghetto on a Saturday put themselves in a position where harm can be done them. They bear some blame for what happened to them. Responsibility is not an either/or proposition.
By getting out of bed and leaving my house I put myself in a place where harm can be done to me. By your logic, ANY crime comitted against me is my fault.
In the courthouse for a rape case, responsibility IS an either/or proposition. Political correctness has nothing to do with it. The rapist’s ENTIRE defense (aside from trying to claim that no sexual activity occured at all, which is easily refuted by medical evidence) hinges on “It wasn’t rape, she wanted me to do it.”
In the police station, when someone walks in, sits down with a detective and the first thing the detective asks is “did you say no?” or “well how drunk were you?” and the victim says “never mind, I made a huge mistake,” and walks out, how does that place any responsibility on the rapist? The defense’s argument, and the detective’s questions, divert responsiblity from the criminal to the victim.
To imply that girls should not dress a certain way to avoid rape is to absolve the rapist – and in fact all men – of responsibility. We are not subhuman beasts. We can in fact see a healthy example of our preferred gender, naked as a jaybird, and NOT have sex with them. She might be asking to be looked at appreciatively, but I have no right to touch her.
That’s not even touching on spousal rape (how, pray tell, should a girl avoid a dangerous situation when her boyfriend, who she thought she could trust, forces himself on her), or girls in other cultures who are gang raped simply because they were there (seen the news out of India lately?).
Matt, we are not talking legal responsibility. We are talking about personal reponsibility. Engaging in irresponsible behavior make you vulnerable to bad outcomes. I don’t give free passes for bad outcomes that are caused by irresponsible behavior.
In a rape case, where the only physical evidence is that sexual contact occurred, the defense twists personal responsibility to absolve the rapist of legal responsibility, and juries buy it.
My wife works in the courts, and every day she watches rapists get acquitted because:
“She was making out with me before she passed out”
“She didnt say stop”
“She was dressed like she wanted everyone to see.”
“She woke up and didnt say anything”
“If she didnt want it, why didnt she stop me?”
Matt. The 3S’s rule. Reality trumps the ‘politics of meaning…’ and ‘the narrative’ when your life is on the line. Too many find out the hard way to their regret.
DaveL,
Take you’re “research” to a nightclub. Seriously. Feel free to point out all of the women dressed like Mother Theresa. I’ll point out all the girls dressed up like hookers – some of which may actually be hookers. You may want to re-evaluate your “it doesn’t matter what women wear / look like” line. No woman should ever be raped, but dressing like a slut and hanging out with dirtbags doesn’t help matters. Neither does a series of unfortunate decisions.
Dude, even a hooker on the corner isn’t asking to be raped. There’s a pretty sizeable difference between indicating that “I am out to have fun and might be open to having sex with someone” and “I am an open receptacle, go nuts.”
Here’s what you’re missing Matt: Many women are in fact dressing up to announce, I am a receptacle, go nuts.
And the fact is that if someone they think is “creepy” (i.e. anything less than the most attractive, most alpha male in the room) looks at her funny or touches her, she will scream RAPE at the top of her lungs at the drop of a hat.
This is the sad reality you guys are either unware of or not paying attention to. I am sure it’s because most of you are either good looking or alpha males or both.
What, exactly, is someone supposed to do to “step up to the bar” here? Lots of appeal to emotion but nothing actionable.
And isn’t it a little creepy that BHO says to rape victims, “I’ve got your back”? He probably should have chosen his words a little more carefully.
See my comment above – from now on, based on the Bamster’s speech, if you see a woman getting drunk in a bar with a male anywhere within 25′ of her, call 911 and report a “rape in progress”. Be sure to tell the cops that you and the Pres are doing it because “you have her back” and you are “stepping in to neutralize a risky situation and prevent an assault.” Everyone will thank you, except the eeevil nearly-a-rapist.
“Mr. Obama’s remarks place the blame for female rape on men who are not rapists.”
I think POTUS was making the point that a portion ofthe current generation of young men has not been taught to respect women.
That or he’s saying there’s a lot of pieces of shits out there who need to be beaten
Women don’t want respect, they want equality. They have yet to earn it. And once equal they would realize, men don’t respect each other.
Back of the line.
I disagree. There are many men I respect, there are many I don’t. But I would agree I don’t respect a group, I respect individuals after I’ve gotten to know them. Respect is earned at the individual level.
Lot of reasons young men don’t respect women. Inconsistency is one- all the mixed messages, ‘I want to wear stuff that flaunts my body, but I don’t want men ogling me?’ Huh? I don’t want to be viewed as a sex object, but abortion needs to be freely available so you can have the assurance I’m willing to kill as an inconvenience any life that takes root in me.
In older times, men saw women as the source of life, respected them for that, and tended to view women as potential long term partners in life. Sex had long-term consequences. Now, in the feminist paradigm it has whatever consequences the female involved wants, she has all the control yet wants to abdicate responsibility when she feels its convenient. Feminists think this attitude will earn respect?
This made me think of a quote from a book I just finished reading this weekend. ““Whenever women have insisted on absolute equality with men, they have invariably wound up with the dirty end of the stick. What they are and what they can do makes them superior to men, and their proper tactic is to demand special privileges, all the traffic will bear. They should never settle merely for equality. For women, “equality” is a disaster.” – Robert Heinlein
From Quentin Tarantino’s (and Harvey Weinstien’s) DEATH PROOF –
Lee: Did you know Kim carried a gun?
Abernathy: Yes. Now, do I approve? No. Do I know? Yes?
Kim: Look, I don’t know what futuristic utopia you live in, but the world I live in, a bitch need a gun.
Abernathy: You can’t get around the fact that people who carry guns, tend to get shot more than people who don’t.
Kim: And you can’t get around the fact that if I go down to the laundry room in my building at midnight enough times, I might get my ass raped.
Lee: Don’t do your laundry at midnight.
Kim: F— that! I wanna do my laundry whenever the f— I wanna do my laundry.
Abernathy: There are other things you can carry other than a gun. Pepper spray.
Kim: Uh, mother—er tryna rape me? I don’t wanna give him skin rash! I wanna shut that n—- down!
Abernathy: How about a knife at least?
Kim: Yeah, you know what happens to mother—ers carry knives? They get shot!
Can I cite this report at my trial if I come upon a rape in progress and put a bullet in the rapist’s head?
Don’t worry taxpayer, obumma has your back too, now let go of that f,n wallet. The last time I heard of such a “deal” was when Earl Scheib would paint any car for $29.95, Randy
The Democrat Party’s War on Men continues apace. Men are bad. Men are not doing enough to protect women. Except Democrat men, of course, because they have the women’s backs.
Meanwhile, Obama and his gang of thieves are raping the whole damn country.
Unfortunately most rapes are estimated to occour between people who know each other. I.e. date rape, incest rape etc. It’s easy to wrap your head around shooting the wild eyed stranger rapist jumping from the bushes, but infinitely harder to come to grips with shooting your relative, or that boy you have been dating a while. Better to educate girls (and boys) regarding the warning signs of a sexual predator and push your kids ad friends to not tolerate sexual assault or make excuses for the rapist.
“Sexual assault is pervasive because our culture still allows it to persist.”
That is correct … because droves of people and organizations actively encourage and even force women to be defenseless against nearly all sexual assaults.
How many female college students are armed? Effectively zero since most states criminalize anyone under the age of 21 who carries concealed, most states criminalize anyone who carries concealed on a college campus, and a few states (with ginormous populations like California and New York) do not even offer concealed carry licenses to the general public.
How many other women are armed? Almost zero as well for various reasons. We all have to work to change that.
I studied philosophy and took as many ‘modern’ philosophy courses as I could (feminist theory, political philosophy, social justice etc) to compliment all the classical philosophical learnings. This was my biggest problem with these ‘modern’ classes; it is great to talk about and debate this stuff academically but it is all head in the clouds dreamy we all have feelings and rights bs. It doesn’t actually apply to the real world the slightest bit. It made me cynical after a while; these people just couldn’t see past the bs…
The outrageous head in the clouds idealism in this video (on the part of Zerlina) is that exact kind of crap! We need to end rape by telling men not to rape? Are you fvcking kidding me?!?!?! We already know rape is morally and legally wrong as a society, how much clearer can it be that we aren’t supposed to be raping women/men? What rape culture? I don’t presume to have any answers but if what Zerlina Maxwell and lots of others like her suggest is all that is needed we wouldn’t have any rape.
The real and difficult fact to face is that evil people exist and there is nothing words and good intentions can do to compel them to stop evil acts.
I had a first cousin, biker trash, that died proving you can’t rape a .38. A very quick hearing in court and she got her gun back. Saw her leave the court with the evidence tag dangling from it.
I’ve taught my daughters and will teach my grand daughters how to say no. My daughters are armed and my granddaughter, at 6 yo, stomped a boy so bad on the playground that adults had to peel her off him.
In my youth I’ve been to parties where girls were foolish enough to pass out. Guess what? I left them alone. It takes more than male genitalia to be a man.
“In my youth I’ve been to parties where girls were foolish enough to pass out. Guess what? I left them alone. It takes more than male genitalia to be a man.”
Correct but in the real world there are far more predators than there are chivalrous men.
The ratios might have been more balanced decades ago but the predators have been on the rise for some time. I am sure it has nothing to do with the fact that the women/girls are making themselves easier prey.
“Correct but in the real world there are far more predators than there are chivalrous men.”
I don’t think I agree with this statement. I agree that the number of potential predators IS rising, but I still believe good guys outnumber bad ones.
The research suggests you are correct, Jake. Aside from the fact that the incidence of rape would have to be far higher if it was the male norm to rape, we know from surveys* that most rapes are committed by a small percentage of men – say 2-3%.
*It turns out that these guys will readily admit to being rapists, as long as you don’t use the r-word. If you ask them if they’ve had sex with a partner who didn’t want to, they will say yes. This holds true even when you make them specify the means, such as by use of physical force or by getting them so intoxicated they were unable to stop them.
You’re only thinking about the equation from one side.
Add in the girls themselves. You are forgetting about how the girls of today behave and how they think.
(Date/Acquaintance rape) IS NOT REALLY ABOUT THE GUYS AT ALL. Nor is all of it Rape. Up to 70% of what a girl says is rape is not rape at all. Because many girls consider touching, harassment, looking or even consensual sex (if they regret it later) to be rape.
Therefore all men have the potential to be rapists. That is the entire point of the YouTube video that is posted on this article. That is the point of the Liberal woman who is talking.
You are conflating Data and Facts with the Feelings and Precious Thoughts of Feminists. I am not trying to clue you guys into data and facts!!
Besides not taking anyone, which I pride mend on being quite good at, what am I supposed to do to prevent rape? What sort off unrealistic nonsense do people believe about how often the average male is near a sexual assault he can intervene to prevent?
Like Neo still plugged into the Matrix most of you men are such white knights you wouldn’t see the real problem here if it were a 20lb trout that hit you upside the face.
Do you really want to fight and win the gun control fight?? Learn the truth about Feminism. Stop white knighting for women who don’t deserve it! Stop thinking that men’s behavior and attitudes have changed in a vaccum! Take the Red Pill !!! aaccckkkkk!!!
It seems like a lot of people here aren’t getting it. What modern feminists describe as rape really isn’t the same as what’s defined in most criminal codes. They hate men and want to subject them to insane standards because some guy burned them at some point in their lives. Modern feminism is about revenge, plain and simple.
If they had their way men would have to obtain a notarized letter to sleep with a woman for it to be consensual, but even then they’d likely claim it was exploitative.
Basically at their core they believe pretty much all heterosexual sex is rape and exploitative. They also have puritanical views on porn and even absurdly claim that gays are furthering exploitation of women with their porn.
This photo: http://i.imgur.com/Cog7PZJ.jpg
is not a joke.
The problem with right-leaning conservative men is that they only see their own limited experience of the people with which they surround themselves – who also think, see, live like they do.
There is no nearly enough research done by anyone here into “the enemy” – the left, the Liberals, the Feminists and who, how, what, why, and where they are plotting and planning our collective demise.
I am totally exhausted being one of very people in this room who spends a lot of time on the front lines learning about the enemy, how she walks, how she thinks, why she does the things she does and more specifically how she can be beaten.
I come here, attempt to bring the knowledge and get beaten down by white knights who insist I have it all wrong. Very frustrating!!
Well I think most of them come from a different world. As someone who graduated from college with a somewhat useless political science degree. (with hopes of becoming a lawyer, only to thankfully discover the market saturated before taking out law school loans) I had to deal with these loons all the time.
A lot of people here understand the culture is changing, and not for the better, but they don’t know why and overlook various groups dedicated to destroying liberty because they don’t know much about them.
“The problem with right-leaning conservative men is that they only see their own limited experience of the people with which they surround themselves – who also think, see, live like they do.”
Speak for yourself. I’d love to meet just one woman who isn’t selling her crotch by having babies she doesn’t give a damn about and/or killing them becasue ven free money for un-loved kids is not good enough to stop whoring around. Interestingly enough, it’s that same hole that psychologists cite as a root cause of rapists’ dysfunction…
Men are the pigs? BULLSHIT! Women have over 400% more STDs for a reason. These feminazis are the last people in the world who have any right to complain about the situation they’ve put themselves in. They ruined the family unit and raise the very boys that grow up to become rapists.
Dustin, not only did you miss my point but you took it exactly the opposite of how I meant it. I actually believe exactly as you do.
My point is that conservative men don’t see these things, because they do not appear in their lives with any regularity. Conservative men are the natural alphas of the world and the women in their lives don’t suffer these sorts of problems because the men don’t allow them to.
Men who are not the natural alphas are forced to see things as they really are either take the red pill and face the truth about women’s hypergamy or keep taking the blue pill and hope for the best.
Obviously you have taken the red pill. A lot of men here (yes, mostly conservative men) don’t even know a pill is available or necessary. That is my point.
What am I supposed to do as a man to curb rape?
I can beat the offending parties all to hell, but if I do, I’m the one who will be called a savage and sent to prison.
And I have no need to alter the behavior of the men I’m friends with because they’re already not out raping people. I don’t befriend rapists, so my influence on rapists is pretty much nonexistent.
Aside from that, how is this empowering to women? Are we to train women that they must be dependent on men who just happen to be passing by to secure their safety?
How about instead, we just teach them to use handguns and give them real empowerment?
Good point.
Then again, we may be looking for logic where there is none.
All I know is that I will do everything in my power to help my niece be as self-reliant as possible. Whether she depends on other women or a man to save her, that’s a long way for a train that never comes.
“Men need to be trained not to rape.”
Evidently Zerlina (wow, what a name) takes the “men are dogs” saying literally. Let’s take her position a bit further. If a man needs to be trained in order not to rape, can a man claim a lack of that training as a defense (like the insanity plea) if he rapes someone?
“I’m so sorry your honor, I just haven’t received rape-prevention training and my animal instincts overpowered me!”
What a f**king joke. Also, if men need to be trained not to rape, then what do women need to be trained NOT to do? Or is it Zerlina’s position that women are perfect?
EDIT: I’m really thankful my mom always told me before I left to go out on a date “Now you remember not to rape that girl.” Otherwise, who could say where I’d be today?
Also, while we’re at it we should train people (or just men) to stop committing EVERY type of crime. Think how wonderful the world would be. Well, what are you waiting for?!
When a word can mean any thing, it means nothing. Rape has pretty much joined “racist” and “anti-Semite” as words/terms that no longer have any meaning.
Grew up with two older brothers, one younger My dad taught us all how not to look like “rabbits iin wolf country” His advice: Stand up straight, walk like you know where your going, even if you don’t know. Do not let anyone get close enough to grab you. Men do not hit women, if a women hits, do not hit back, walk away. If someone grabs one fight like it’s the last day of your life, because otherwise it just might be, kick, hit, scream, bite, grab a “tender part of the body, squeeze hard.
The biting part served me well when an Aussie guy invited me back to his apartment for coffee after a party. Seemed like a nice guy. Turns out he wanted more than coffee, told him “no” persisted, so when he tried to kiss me, grabbed his bottom lip and bit down HARD, he let me go and I made my escape. And he learned that, contary, to what his Rugby freiends told him, American girls are not “easy” First and last time anyone tried to make me do something I didn’t want to. A lot of modern day women are candy pants, won’t fight back! Guess they didn’t have a WW II veteran daddy like I did.
Mythical Young Liberal Gun Owner checking in again:
I’d like to apologize in advance for the fact that generating and proof reading comments via smartphone on this blog is inconvenient at best.
Zerlina’s position that men need to be told “Not to Rape” is a fallacy, and therefore an invalid argument that really deserves none of my attention, as holding the view that we men are accountable to some degree for all rapes makes me want to quite literally vomit. Unfortunately, she’s gotten national airtime, and I’m just here on TTAG posting the occasional comment.
I’m curious – has she ever spent any time around the brother, cousin, father, or new boyfriend of a rape victim? I doubt it. Why do I doubt it? Because I’ve been the boyfriend there, and telling me that it’s partly my fault that the woman I loved was forcibly (and unbelievably, repeatedly) violated is a great way to earn a kick in the teeth if you’re a guy, and quite possibly a sharp slap if you’re a woman. Aren’t we as humans supposed to strive to be more thoughtful and much more intelligent? Stupid’s no excuse in real life, last time I checked.
That’s how much of a stupid, ignorant comment it is to make – I’m not a violent person (except for the part where OMG!! he owns guns OMG!!) but if somebody explicitly accused me of direct complicity in such an outrageous act because of such a callous disregard for my point of view, my feelings and identity as a human who happens to have external genitalia, I’d probably tune out and start breaking things – and of course, it’s never acceptable to forcefully reject such insulting comments in our Brave New World. I’d challenge you to wake up to an occasional punch in the face caused by PTSD related nightmares – for more than a year – and then be told to accept that it’s your fault.
That said, I think that to some degree men ARE responsible for preventing rape: first, through teaching the young men in our society actual respect for women, second, by educating, watching out for and sticking up for the women in our lives (and ABSOLUTELY intervention if necessary – it’s someone’s life, folks – do the right thing!), as well as encouraging those same women to empower themselves.
However, women are also partially responsible for both educating the young men AND young women in our society how to prevent rape and for empowering themselves through appropriate weaponry and by not putting themselves into bad situations but arguing about the degree to which gender on the whole is more responsible for rape as a whole is Just. Plain. Dumb.
Our country on the whole has some work to do when it comes to objectifying women – especially young, sexually active women. Give a person (male or female) a role to play and there’s a decent chance they’ll pick up the script and improvise as best they can. It’s human nature.
For those of you who have not had rape intrude upon your lives: be thankful and please understand that to some degree you won’t be able to understand. It’s like how I refrain from commenting on the challenges our boys and girls in uniform face, especially when deployed to a hot zone overseas. I’m not qualified, so I keep my damn mouth shut about it. The vast majority of rapes occur by perpetrators known to the victim – I know of three firsthand examples personally – but I’ve never heard of a ‘jumped out of the bushes’ situation, even second or third hand.
Rape has affected my life, not directly, but still unfortunately and significantly. One of my good MALE friends was raped by a slightly older cousin when he was young; at the time, he spoke out about it and was both ridiculed and ostracized by his family as a result… Until the cousin was caught doing bad things to another young relative (this time female) and is now in prison. My friend still has emotional troubles stemming from this attack and lack of trust from his elders some 20 years later.
Yes, to some degree we humans are responsible for all acts of sexual violence, because we are all human – leaving gender aside completely. We must work to prevent and we must provide any and all support available to survivors.
That said:
When my (now former) girlfriend was being repeatedly raped by her previous (and at the time, just recently ex) boyfriend she was working as an instructor at one of the largest privately held shooting ranges in the world. She had easy access to guns, but presumably still cared enough for her previously inimate rapist that she decided his life shouldn’t have been forfeit. I don’t know; I tried to ask a time or two, but ultimately it was too painful for her to discuss and honestly I would have been challenged to accept her decision no matter the rationale.
The rapist is doubly lucky: at one point I ended up in the same small town as him – knew where he was, I had guns, and I would have happily surrendered afterwards and done my time knowing that he’d been properly ventilated. His victim saved his life – again, by literally begging me not to get out of the truck and waste his worthless ass with a soft-nose hunting slug to the gut.
He’s still out there, unfortunately – I can only hope he gets caught sooner rather than later. Legal prosecution would be iffy at best for his previous victim. I’d post as much information about the guy that I could, but there’s a decent chance he might also peruse this site, and even though my relationship with that beautiful woman is over, I’d still like to protect her from that piece of excrement if at all possible – and encouraging vigilante revenge could possibly incite that crazy fuck to hurt her again. If you’re out there and you’re reading this, Mr. Served-for-a-year-before-getting-kicked-out-of-the-Marine-Corps, consider yourself warned. I hope you get help for your multitude of problems, because all life is precious and no man is truly irredeemable (…well, you just might be).
In conclusion, I’d like to present to all a “Rape Prevention Checklist”:
1) Increased education, empowerment and respect FOR women AND men, FROM men AND women on all rape related subjects, from new cultural norms and situational awareness to carrying and using weapons if necessary.
2) All convicted male rapists undergo mandatory psychological counseling, must register in the same vein as child molesters, and second offenders are housed in the general population of a women’s prison – I’m sure they’ll sort things out (or maybe shorten them).
“Zerlina’s position that men need to be told “Not to Rape” is a fallacy,”
That’s the same kind of mentality that believes that telling teens not to drink and drive gets teens to stop drinking and driving.
Upon further viewing via a real screen, my choice of words wasn’t the best. I’d say it’s something that definitely needs to be said – but I’d put it closer to telling hormonal horny teens not to have sex and neglecting all other sex education in the name of dogmatic beliefs – and then wondering why the teen pregnancy and STD infection rates remain significant.
Again, there is research on the actual facts here. Concealed carry has a measurable and statistically significant impact on rape (even more than murder). So, if you buy into the “feeling” that women can’t shoot their rapist because they “know” them, the hard facts disprove your feeling. Even if the effect is due to the rapist not knowing whether their victim has a gun or not, therefore preventing the start of the crime, the fact is that more guns equal less rape. Gun rights is one of the key women’s issues of our time.
I’m not sure if you’re politely telling me I’m wrong, but on your last statement I’m in complete agreement – we can absolutely empower women through firearms.
When it comes to shooting an uncle / husband / ex-boyfriend / neighbor in self-defense, I’m saying that sometimes it’s not gonna happen because of who the rapist is; the wiring of the human brain provides for things like trust and critical thinking for a reason, but those same attributes can be circumvented and short-circuited through various coercive means. Again, the research shows that the majority of all rapes are committed by men (and occasionally women) known to the victim, and so it becomes a much more complicated emotional issue than simply blasting away at the creeping shadow in the alley.
I’m saying that simply giving all women guns (and telling them to use them) then expecting rape to suddenly disappear as a problem in our society is a non-argument, just like telling men “not to rape” is a non-argument.
It’ll take education, enforcement, and empowerment at a minimum, and we males have to recognize that we’re part of that solution through social means, not just through hurling lead or encouraging others to do so.
AmericanSpirit,
I wasn’t responding to your post specifically (although now I am). I had just read all the comments and saw that general thing about women not shooting somebody they “know.” In response to your arguments, I generally agree with much of what you said. However, in order for the “research” to show that most rapists are people the victim “knows,” they have to redefine “knows” until they get the answer they want. This happens a great deal in gun control studies where they say that you’ll be shot by your spouse and then pretend that they get some big number for people you “know” by including such categories as a cab driver with whom you had over a 5 minute conversation and various other ridiculous inclusions. Then they try to relate that to being shot by a family member. Some older studies on rape that I saw (before “know” was redefined) showed that it was more of a 50/50 thing but I do agree that date rape is definitely on the rise at an alarming level so the studies I read in the 90’s and early 2000’s are probably well out of date with this new trend.
In your reply, you said: “I’m saying that simply giving all women guns (and telling them to use them) then expecting rape to suddenly disappear as a problem in our society is a non-argument.” Unfortunately, you magnify the position of the other side of your argument (“suddenly disappear”) in order to make your side look more reasonable. I don’t remember saying anything about disappearing. However, there is significant evidence (done with regressions that account for a very large number of variables) that increases in the percent of the population that carry concealed (both men and women) can lower rape anywhere from 4% all the way up to 20% with 7% to 10% being fairly typical. The data for this is very strong and surpasses the straw man.
Date Rape – what happens the next morning when some slut sobers up and finds some slob she should have known better than to even give the time of day to in bed with her.
BluesMike – thanks for the intelligent, reasoned, thoughtful response. As for playing with the categories, I’d absolutely agree that dishonest (or perhaps less than totally honest) manipulation of the data in any research is a constant source of concern; as they say, there’s lies, damn lies, and statistics because of the number of ‘acceptable’ ways to interpret the data allows anyone who’s willing to do the legwork to point to their conclusion as correct.
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on some points; the empirical evidence in my personal life (as well as most data that I’ve seen, barring the above) supports the argument that most scumbag rapists are ‘well-known’ to the victim, but it’s hard to cite that source when I value my privacy IRL.
Obviously I’ve got some pretty strong feelings on this issue and on the off chance that someone comes through and actually reads the whole of this short novel in comments:
Tl;dr – (too long; didn’t read)
Women: Firearms will assist in your empowerment, but you must be willing to use them if necessary, and also don’t be stupid (and tell your friends, too!)
Men: Educate your sons and daughters on the issue of rape, work to empower your female friends and relatives, and above all be respectful at all times when talking about it. There’s a good chance someone you know well has been raped or had an attempt, and those that have been raped almost certainly aren’t going to come right out and say so – before you launch into “women who dress like whores and get wasted are askin’ for it”, take a breath, and find that ‘sensitive’ side we usually claim not to have because we’re all obviously hulking examples of alpha male prowess.
Women for Men: This woman is an author and has written many books about men’s rights.
She weighs in on “rape” , so-called.
And if anyone has noticed my comments above, Suzanne here says much better what I was trying to say.
http://womenformen.org/2014/01/27/an-open-letter-to-joe-biden/
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