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TTAG doesn’t pull any punches. That’s why readers trust our articles and reviews. As you might expect, our no-holds-barred firearms and firearms gear reviews don’t sit well with everyone. Especially manufacturers whose products aren’t all they should be. Three years ago, Bushmaster told RF to take a hike from their SHOT Show booth when TTAG’s jefe asked a Freedom Group suit about their rifle’s worrying tendency to go full-auto. This year, it was Remington’s turn to eject a TTAG writer from their booth . . .

I stopped at was Remington’s booth on the first day. I’d heard that Big Green was reintroducing the R51 semi-automatic pistol; I wanted to get the 411 on the “new” gun. I got the deets, posted a quick article and headed to another area of the booth to see what else was new.

I walked up, extended my hand to the person behind the counter and started to introduce myself. I didn’t get past “Hey there, I’m…” before they cut me off.

“I know who you are,” the dour-faced product rep announced. “Hit the bricks.”

I wasn’t sure if he was kidding, but I had a pretty good idea he wasn’t. I figured my review of the dangerously awful R51 made me persona non grata. Our maybe it was TTAG’s continuing coverage of Remington’s declining quality control. Or our analysis of  AAC’s fall from grace. Or our repeated hand-wringing over the The Freedom Group’s annihilation of the Marlin brand.

When I didn’t turn tail and run, the boothmeister made it clear I wasn’t welcome. “No matter if I talk to you or not, you’re going to write a hit piece. Hit the bricks.”

Not true. I wrote disparaging things about MasterPiece Arms’ products – and then wrote a glowing review of their newest rifle and handed them our first Editor’s Choice Award for Best New Firearm of the Year. We’ve been highly critical of Chiappa’s quality control and panned the Rhino. Tyler’s loving their latest survival rifle (review to follow). While I shot for FN’s team, that didn’t stop me from pointing out that their AR-15 was a day late and a dollar short.

I was – am – looking forward to giving Remington an opportunity to prove me wrong about the R51. I wanted them to show me an exciting new product that I could preview for our readers. Unfortunately, Big Green holds grudges and plays favorites. Which clearly isn’t me.

Bottom line: if Remington wants to stop getting bad press, they should turn out better products. Until they do so the world’s most popular firearms blog will continue to tell The Truth About Guns to its 2.2 million monthly unique readers, whether they, Remington, like it or not.

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183 COMMENTS

    • Seriously???? You don’t know who they are??? Dude, they are on display in the Smithsonian. They were known last century for their famous 870 police “riot gun” and stuff. It had an all steel receiver and could handle abuse. All of their products are now on the Curio and Relics list!

      Oh wait, I didn’t realize there was a company still around using the same name. Sorry! My bad!

      Keep up the great work Nick!

      • Yeah they are still around but I think they just sell shavers and weedeaters. You can still buy some 870 barrels……….wait never mind that is made by mossberg. Sorry

  2. Some manufacturers wont learn, Thank you Nick and all the TTAG team for getting under the right people’s skin and calling things how they are. That’s why I come back day after day in spite of the nearly weekly site hacks.

  3. Stupid as defined “exasperating obtuseness”. Remington had a bad year and this is exactly the kind of thing they shouldn’t do.

    • Agreed. My local gun store owner is a good friend of mine an dhe’s pretty much stopped selling Remington products because he said he was tired of having to waste his or his employee’s time packing them up for the recall. He has ordered one last Remington product for 2015 a 300 blackout bolt action R700 he got for a specific customer.

  4. LOL, look, Remington, kicking out the press does not look good. It’s like you’re trying to hide something. Since appearances matter, I’ll spend my money with someone who’ll have some intergrity.

    • Ditto. And now that goes for Bushmaster, too.

      And I was just about to ‘pull the trigger’ for another 870.

      Guess I’ll look at some other models now.

      • Good on you. Does remington (no caps intended) make anything that’s not at least matched by another manufacturer? I have a treasured 541-S Custom Sporter, but don’t think I’ll ever buy anything from remington again.

        And yes, all because of one asshole employee. The details are a measure of the bigger picture. If they can’t control the people who face the press…

  5. Standard “kill the messenger” response from a big corporation that is more concerned with the quarterly profit than keeping a long-term customer base. You might fool a first-time buyer, but you don’t fool the serious shootists.

    TTAG should take this ejection as a compliment to your integrity.

    • To be fair Nick really /is/ pretty impartial…

      Unless whatever he is reviewing isn’t something normally civilian legal. Then he fanbois all over it but we forgive him.

  7. yeah Team Green really sucks the big one! I can’t believe the freedom group hasn’t gone bankrupt by now you think they would have learned something after all the wrongful death suits with the Remington Model 700. I couldn’t have said it better myself that company needs an enema! Like I’ve said many times before any company that has the name their company the freedom group usually freedom is the last thing there about bottom dollar is how much money can we make off the gun people and turn out s*** in the process!

    • Running companies in to the ground for profit is how Cerberus Capital does business. Just look at how they handled Chrysler. Only difference this time is that there won’t be a bailout.

  9. Kind of surprised a major company would let their PR staff respond like that. Even if it isn’t a PR staffer, you would think any company rep would have some kind of media training. But like the man said, if you want better press turn out better product.

    • Eh – perhaps not.

      Remington has, what, 7500 – 10k employees? (I couldn’t find a good answer on google, except for 2k at their largest plant, so this is a WAG.)

      That should be large enough to have some internal training programs but I’d guess most of them will be safety-related. And as a privately held company that’s part of a larger conglomerate, they may leave the serious public-interface training and seminars for higher-up in the corporate structure than you might expect.

      That said … How smart do you have to be to understand that annoying the press is generally a bad idea? Or that if you’re going to brush someone off, at least make an effort to be polite about it.

      “I’m very sorry, Mr Leghorn, but in light of some of the things your editors have published about us, we don’t believe giving you our full press briefing on premarket releases would be productive at this time. Perhaps after you’ve had a chance to review some of our new and reworked products we can speak more openly.”

  10. When this site first mentioned the R51 re-release, I said that if Remington is smart, and they’ve actually fixed the flaws, they’ll make sure the biggest critics of the first release get T&E models.

    It looks like they failed to meet at least one of those criteria.

    • Frankly, I don’t think anybody would give any credence to the review if the test sample came from the factory. It would have to be borrowed from an FFL who got it through the standard distribution channel for TTAG’s armed intelligentsia to trust it. I’m always a bit cynical about getting T&E guns from the manufacturer, as who knows if special attention was paid to them first. The manufacturer knows where the gun is going and that a review is going to come out of it, so the temptation to give it an extra once-over is pretty big, I’d think. If not outright doing something I’d consider unethical like polishing internal trigger components, feed ramps and chambers, etc etc. That said, I have received quite a few T&E samples from manufacturers and in many of the cases they were clearly just taken off of the shelf randomly from stock ready to ship out (as they tell you is their practice).

      My local FFL has been good about loaning me guns, so a decent number of my reviews were actual, distributed-to-retail firearms rather than T&Es. I certainly want Nick to do the follow-up TTAG review on the new R51, but my FFL already told me they’ll loan me the first one they get in. I may have them loan it to Nick instead, but he’ll probably have his own sources and such (although my guys seem really dang good at getting a handful of first on the market examples every time something comes out).

      • Jeremy, seriously?!?!? You really want to try to convince us that a T&E: “as who knows if special attention was paid to them first?” Of course special attention was paid to them first whether a T&E or a “factory to retailer.” Les Baer has a reputation and their stuff is amazing! I personally don’t think with their master gunsmiths that the T&E’s are any different than the . . .

        . . . sorry. Just realized I started thinking of a hand-fitted Les Baer when I saw the phrase of “special attention.” What brand were we talking about again? Good grief, and it is only Monday . . .

        • LOL. Any brand. If, as a completely random “for instance,” GLOCK USA sends me a T&E of a G40MOS do I think it went to their gunsmith who polished all of the moving parts and then got test fired on their range to ensure everything was flawless, then got thoroughly cleaned and spit shined before going in the box to ship out for TTAG review? Or did they just grab it off the shelf full of boxed-up 40MOS’ and ship it out? While I would definitely expect the latter in this random example, I think it’s fair to say that we’re a cynical bunch and if a review firearm comes through normal retail channels then we’ll likely all feel better about it being a fair example of the breed.

  11. Well that’s a shame. I guess it’s a good thing I prefer Savage for my bolt guns, Mossberg for my pump guns, and just about anyone else for my handguns.

        • I’m sure many will consider the following comment as part of “the conspiracy” considering I’m connected with TTAG, but since I was a kid I have had the worst experience with Remington’s .22 LR out of all of the brands I have ever shot. I may be unlucky or something, but I have had more duds (no primer in the rim) with Remington .22 BY FAR than with any others. Even to this day… last summer I bought a 100 box of Remington target or match .22, assuming it was going to be better than the bulk stuff I had tried in the past. Well… in the first 20 rounds I had 3 duds! And I mean I rechambered them multiple times and struck the rim in multiple places with solid dents and nothing. I recently picked up a couple boxes of Remington’s “subsonic” but have yet to try it. Maybe it’ll run the action of my semi-auto .22 rifle (which, for the record, is a Remington 597 HB that I love), but I’ll be happy if I can just get through most of the rounds without finding a dud haha.

        • Screw Remington .22. Way to many duds (recently, one 12 round magazine loaded with Remington’s .22lr had 4 [FOUR!] duds. And they keyholed like crazy. Not even sure how that’s possible at such close range (I was teaching some new shooters, and this had the target set up only a few yards away), but it certainly wasn’t the gun (I tried a variety of ammo that day).

        • I’ve had a hell of a time with Remmy’s .22LR target ammo. And when you’re shooting a match against time, as any competitor here will tell you, unless you’ve got ice in your veins, having a dud screws up your whole mental perspective. Sure, in bullseye I can take a second pass on a clean target for ammo/equipment malf’s. But when I have a dud, it takes me 10-15 rounds (2 or 3 targets) before I’m back mentally in the groove. If there’s one thing I could use coaching on in timed competitions, it is how to recover mentally from a equipment/ammo malfunction.

        • No reasonable person would consider that a conspiracy. Every shooter I know thinks Remington .22lr is subpar. CCI, Winchester, Blazer, Fiocchi, etc. are all clearly more reliable. Out of curiosity, is there anyone reading this who believes Remington .22 is superior to any of the above? I promise not to rip you, I just thought it was a given. On a related note, I think there’s a question of the day (what is your favorite plinking ammo/does it even really matter?) in there somewhere.

      • I’ve had bad luck out of remington too, seems to me like all their quality control is shoddy. I’ve had even worse luck out of the last box of Winchester I bought though, with 2 in 10 either misfiring or failing to eject from my semi auto. (While some mexican Aguila bullets shot every time)

  12. Don’t like to get butthurt? Don’t turn out crap. If crap comes out, listen and fix it. Then go find your critics and show them what you’ve done to fix it. Very simple formula.

    Thanks TTAG! What you are doing, works.

    • I must be missing something here in your “formula.” All that would do is potentially bring back old customers and yield new sales and profits. Sorry, but that is a really stupid idea!

  13. Judging by the photo, if that’s NIck in the white shirt, I bet the “R” guys have their closed fists in their pockets…that’s some aggressive body language, ready to clean NIck’s clock. F-them. Even though I own a Remmy R1 Enhanced 1911 .45acp and yes…I love that gun..but still F-them.

  14. TTAG:

    You know you are doing something right, when all men do not speak well about you! Start being concerned when they do!

    That is not my original saying, but thanks to Jesus who said it as recorded in Luke 6:26:

    “Woe to you when all men speak well of you…”

  15. You pull punches when you have a personal vendetta (Open Carry, for instance). Like saying everyone who’s not demanding open carry is a communist. Remember that? When you said it wasn’t enough to be for carrying concealed?

    You got what you deserved. Learn to be friendlier. You can say the truth without being a jerk or lying.

    • Nick’s review wasn’t gentle and “diplomatic,” attempting to explain serious issues in flowery terms that sugar coat them and ease the sting, but it wasn’t in ANY way hyperbolic, libelous, or personally insulting / ad hominem. It simply reported the facts as they were. It told the truth. It wasn’t rude, the tone was NOT jerk-like in any way, whatsoever, and it was actually conciliatory in a few places. There were certainly no lies, as was later proven hundreds of times over when consumers suffered ALL of the same issues followed by Remmy pulling the R51 from its website and deleting absolutely everything that ever referred to it. The review was accurate and honest without undue adjectives or accusations, etc etc. If that’s a road too far… well… then we’re way apart on this topic.

  16. Wow! Not very professional. I assume this is how they treat their customers when a customer calls to report a problem. Either way, I will not take that chance especially when there are so many great gun manufactures to choose from.

  17. It looks like “Big Green” is becoming “Big Red.” As in red ink. Gallons of it. And it couldn’t happen to a nicer (sarc) bunch of gold-diggers.

    Big Green was caught red handed by Nick’s R51 report in black and white, and now Remington is blue. It’s too bad that so many brown-nosing reviewers were too yellow to print the truth. I’m tickled pink that Nick did the right thing. Orange you?

  18. Sad to hear that they shut you out. A “real” representative would have welcomed you in, and shown you anything you wanted to see, discussed all the many improvements made in their various products and assured you that quality was job #! at the factory. But since that didn’t happen, we all have to assume that things at Remington and by extension, Freedom group as a whole, are the same as last year, bad and getting worse.

  19. This is very disappointing, especially because I’d love an R51 that works and at this point I only trust TTAG to let its readership know if the bugs have truly been ironed out.

    • My thoughts exactly. I really, really want an R-51, but only if it works. They won’t convince me they’ve fixed the problems until reviewers that pointed out the rather catastrophic problems with the first attempt are given current production pistols and return glowing reviews that say “everything’s fixed and it works great”.

      Giving those reviewers the cold shoulder is not the way to do that.

      • FWIW I was really stoked about the R51 when I first heard about it. I’ve been looking for a carry gun along the lines of a Colt 1903. The R51 was completely unreliable with major design flaws.

        Colt’s making a limited run of 1903’s. If they’re drop safe, I’m in.

        As for the R51, we’re ready, willing and able to give the pistol another chance. If R51 2.0’s an excellent firearm we will report that. But I’l admit, I’m not optimistic. Companies run by arrogant people hardly ever make a great product. Then again, Ferrari.

  20. I hate to hear this.

    I had hoped Remington was trying to distance themselves from that debacle, but it looks like they are
    digging themselves deeper.

    Not a good way to pump up their P.R.

  21. Remington’s just digging it’s own grave with things like that. I’ve told everyone I know, gun or not, to stay the hell away from the R51 and any other Remington products (including shotguns) until they shape up.

    • I’ve been comparison-shopping Remington and Benelli. I was already wary of buying a shotgun from a Freedom Group company, but Nick’s account is the nail in the Remington 870’s coffin. Benelli will be getting my dollars.

      • Good call. Benellis are wonderful. I own one of their pumps (Supernova Tactical with ghost ring sights), and I love it. And their autos are some of the best in the market (I don’t currently own any, but I have fired a few).

  22. It appears their business model is to buy up smaller successful companies in an effort, not to capitalize on that success but to squelch competition. Good luck with that.
    Do they really think following the footsteps of Google will work in the firearms industry?

    • More like they’ll follow Husqvarna’s example: they kept buying up smaller chainsaw companies, and every one they bought failed, and every time their own brand sank lower.

      • Perfect example. Still trying to find parts on some old saws. Finally, sprung and bought a new one but in my tinkering I still would like to repair my dad’s saw. Husqvarna has made it hard to do so.

      • My Dad has a newer on and it is a really nice saw. He is no lumberjack but he cuts up quite a few large trees each year for firewood and has never had an issue with it.

  23. That’s it – Take the Low Road: blame others for your mistakes and get all anti-social. That’ll help for sure, Big Green

    /sarc

  24. They’re right on about the likelihood of a hit piece. I’ve seen how you write when you get butthurt.
    Signed – A regular Bullet Hole customer.

      • Sure there was truth – it was muddy, there was a long line, he didn’t like the bay rental policy that he agreed to … I’m not saying they didn’t have some issues, but that article (which has been taken down as far as I can tell – can’t find it now) cast the range and their staff in the worst possible light. Not honest journalism, just butthurt.

    • Agreed. “Objective” isn’t the word most people would use in to describe your views in that area.

      • ‘K. I’ll bite. Let’s assume just for the sake of argument that TTAG is all subjective and butthurt. So WHO is objective, soundly and roundly pans some guns and some gun companies, yet loves others, but is not “butthurt”? I mean, it ain’t the mainstream gun media, who never met a gun nor gun company they didn’t love. When’s the last time your friendly Guns & Ammo writer reviewed a gun and concluded, “Well, this thing is just a POS that’ll get you killed, or at best, won’t kill your target”? And when did it somehow become the job of the gun media to kiss every mfg’s arse? I am a lifetime Big Green fan, but anyone giving them a pass on the 700 trigger recall, PLUS the R51 debacle shortly thereafter may not be butthurt at all, but you’re about as objective as a 16 year old boy drooling over Katy Perry. If it’s butthurt or suck-up media, I’ll take butthurt.

        • But not people who work for companies… when they get buthurt its all “HOW UNPROFESSIONAL..”

          You see what I’m getting at? We can’t have it both ways. Either we (TTAG commenters and writers) act like adults, or we cannot reasonably expect those we interact with to.

          What’s good for the goose, is good for the gander.

          • No. We can have it both ways. I haven’t paid one red cent to read the articles on TTAG. Sure, they make money through ads and it is based on readership, so it behooves the staff to maintain viewers. But this media is different from solid goods. Remington does not stay in business based on how many people browse their website. They need to sell products. Acting like an ass to your customers won’t sell product. Acting like an ass on the internet hasn’t seemed to slow down traffic one bit.

            • Exactly right, Michael. This particular incident is all about bad marketing. Remington, like all business, is in business to make money. And Remington, like all business, should treat even their enemies better than this, not because it’s the moral thing to do, but because it’s good for business. Generic __________Corp. (insert name of your favorite CS provider) doesn’t give you great CS because they’re “great people” (the particular human being involved in solving your problem may indeed be a saint, but we’re talking corporate policy, here), but because doing so is good for business. That may sound cold, and won’t give you the warm fuzzies, but if they take care of you, do you really care? Waiting for a corporation to be sincere, with no ulterior motives, is like waiting for politicians to do the same.

          • Media outlet vs. Media outlet = goose/gander
            Production Retail Corporation vs. Production Retail Corporation = goose/gander

            Internet Media outlet vs. Production Retail Corporation = apples/oranges

  25. I was going to build a new Magpul SBS using a Remington 870.

    This was the last straw for me, I will be going with a Mossberg for this project now and will also not purchase anymore products from them.

  26. It must really suck when a relic company, famous for products produced in days gone by, realizes that there is this thing called the internet and new media. Now, they can no longer grease the pockets of major publications with ad dollars for good reviews and have that be the only resource when researching a product.

    Someday, these companies will realize that mistakes happen so own them, listen to the people who want to help you with a better product and implement change. I can see if it’s just some fanboy of another product bitching about yours but all of the honest reviews of the R51 were horrible, showcasing flaws that were boarderline criminal.

    No matter, I crossed any Remington off my want list long ago. There’s much better value out there from several other manufacturers, most of which, provide better customer service.

  27. Way to go Remington, keep giving people reasons NOT to buy your products. Just as they blame Nick for what hid “did” to the R51 (or should I say, to the sales figures), I’m sure it was my fault that the magazine follower spring on my brand new 870 was constantly binding up until I purchased a replacement from Wilson Combat and never had a problem since. I guess all those triggers on the 700 rifles were not defective either? What a joke this company is. And here I was, thinking about getting (and upgrading) a 700 police or 5R. Not anymore.

    • If you want a good bit action rifle, I highly recommend Savage. They make far better rifles than any of the shit Remington churns out.

  28. The way MasterPiece Arms to your articles is exactly why I am looking at their products. That’s a company that has faith in itself and faith in its products. Instead of getting mad at Nick for writing an article, they went and proved they make good products; they took the criticism and used it to improve the company and the products. The hell with Remington, after the debacles of the past year to act like this shows me they care nothing about the consumer only their bottom line.

  29. Alas, looks like they had a few interesting new takes on the AR platform. The DPMS/Remington G2 .308s look very interesting with smaller, lighter receivers than other AR10 platformed rifles. But the fact that they can’t admit their mistakes is telling. Either they are too arrogant to admit these things or they are shady and still covering up further issues, either way it’s not a great sign. I for one will not be jumping on any of their new product until it’s been well documented to not have issues.

  31. Remington has gone the wrong direction. This happens often when the focus is on pleasing the Board rather than the customer. Witness what has been going on with Colt.

    I expect to see both Colt and anything run by Freedom Group to be history soon.

    • Yeah but if you are not taking care of your customers you won’t be pleasing the Board for very long.

  32. Further cements that I will never buy a remington firearm again.

    Seriously, who trains these PR persons? Business 101, if your product has problems, is to grab your biggest critics and show them how the problems have been fixed and how the product is better. Thank them for their time, then they will become your supporters (if not biggest supporters).

    Part of me thinks FG just wants to bankrupt remington.

    • Yep this is a pretty basic PR FAIL on all sorts of levels.

      So first, Remington had to know that TTAG was going to walk through their booth. Now if you were in charge of the booth team wouldn’t you want instruction from above on how to handle this situation? If you were the managers and executives of this PR field team wouldn’t you have wanted to formulate a plan on how to handle this? What exactly are you doing as a PR team if you’re not addressing the entities that helped torpedo your last grand offering into a blazing inferno?

      So now, the day at the show arrives, and as expected and your “plan” is to hurl insults at your problem and elevate the stakes? That’s you brilliant plan to success?

      So my questions if I was the CEO of Remington would be……

      #1) Was this the actual agreed to plan and if so who OK’d that plan so I can fire the right people.

      or

      #2) Was this event unplanned and the low-level grunt on the floor just winged it and it felt “oh so good” at the time? If so…then which managers and executives need to be fired for lack of basic preparation for the largest PR event of the year?

      Lastly…in reality, if I was CEO of Rem, I would have wanted to OK the plan months ago. Wonder if he is so insulated that he doesn’t even know what’s going on?

      • Wonder if he is so insulated that he doesn’t even know what’s going on?

        I love answering my own questions…..

        Remington CEO: “What’s a TTAG?”

      • Well said. I will add that the smart business move at this point (as well as the right thing to do from a moral perspective) would be for a Remington executive to call Nick within the next 24 hours, apologize for the incident, explain that the employee(s) involved had been reprimanded or dismissed, and promise to send TTAG the first R51v2 off the line for T&E. Think of how much good will that kind of humility would generate.

  33. “….will continue to tell The Truth About Guns to its 2.2 million monthly unique readers…”

    *Drops mic*.

  34. I have a Model 8 in 35 Rem, and two 870’s. However, I won’t be buying their goods anymore.

    Mossberg 500, a M92 30-30, a Weatherby Vanguard, and a Rock River AR are on my 6-month buy list. Sorry, Remington, your questionable QC and poor PR have lost you my business.

  35. You buy a Remington 700 for the aftermarket customization, like a Harley-Davidson.

    If you want a rifle to shoot out-of-the-box, you buy a Savage.

    I think the original R51 fell victim to the bean-counters trying to cut costs and the marketing department to release on a given seasonal deadline. And the trade show examples were tool-room prototypes that even then didn’t work properly.

    Hopefully the R51v2 performs better.

    And Remington needs to learn to take their lumps and pick up their game. With that level of arrogance they could be mistaken for Heckler und Koch.

  37. Freedom group is in cahoots with Obama, Holder, Bloomberg and Bill Gates to destroy the gun industry’s infrastructure no guns = no toys, thank the Quislings at Remington who do their hardest making it so you have a choice of one weapon!, hang on Boys and Girls it may get uglier yet!

    • Yes, after investing hundreds of millions in a brand new mega firearms facilities that is creating 2500 jobs in a gun friendly state, they are CLEARLY out to get us….

      I think you need to switch out your tinfoil.

      Remington isn’t perfect, but its not the antichrist guys. Lets please regain a sense of perspective here.

      • No company is perfect, but to dismiss the huge problems with the brand is just wrong. They have had problem after problem (even releasing the R51- ostensibly a gun people will be entrusting their lives to- over the objections of their engineers). Not only are their products of remarkably poor quality, they also have no morals, which is problematic for a company that markets any if their products for self-defense. Remington’s not the Antichrist, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a terrible company.

  39. “If you aren’t pissing someone off, you are doing it wrong”…or is it “if you do the right thing, you will piss someone off.” Either way, in my estimation, TTAG gave an honest appraisal (that was echoed from many corners of the gun world) of the R51 and Big Green got their feelings hurt. Seriously, how childish. I am legitimately thinking about trading off my 870 right now. Maybe replace it with a Benelli or Mossberg.

  40. Like you, Nick, I am hoping the kinks are worked on the R51. However, I don’t do business with people who hold grudges and refuse honest review…so…better or not, it seems they’ve lost my $$$. I’m sure Mossberg, Glock, Ruger, and Springfield Armory (among a few others) will be glad for that (since a single stack 9 isn’t the only gun on my list).

  42. I traded away my Remington R1 1911 for an AK parts kit. That’s right. I would rather have a gun already in pieces than deal with Remington, their QC, and other headaches of having a subpar product.

    I bet they would defend it as “product break-in”. Funny. I don’t believe that myth. None of my other firearms required it. My EAA Witness 10mm. not a single jam since the day I bought it. Same with my Bulgarian Arcus 9mm. never a jam. My Eastern Bloc handguns tough as nails also work 100% out of the box.

    I bought that handgun because I wanted to be patriotic to support an American company for once when my usual buying habits had me doing the opposite. I also at the time before I knew I was moving was scrambling to get the guns I wanted before the laws changed to make it more difficult/draconian to acquire so my funds were already stretched as it was wanting a decent 1911 to round out the collection. Boy was I wrong choosing Remington I should have stuck with a Norinco 1911 that I originally wanted but no my “emotions” got to me thinking I was getting the better product because it was American. Remington made 1911’s during WW2 as well as afterwards how hard could it be to make a reliable one? Apparently hard enough.

    I was even thinking maybe, just maybe, I would get a Bushmaster ACR but with FB Radom coming to the U.S. and their MSBS rifle which looks and functions practically like the Magpul Masada should have been I now have zero reason to give a penny to this conglomerate of mediocrity.

    • Actually I take one thing back I will only buy their ammo since that seems to be the only thing they are somewhat decent at but never a firearm.

    • Not trying to defend Remington’s bad attitude and QC issues, but I have a 1911r1. It has been exceptionally reliable for me. The magazines that Remington supplies with the gun are crap and WILL cause malfunctions. After I figured out the problem, I bought a few Wilson Combat and Mec-Gar magaines, and the gun has been flawless for the past 1200 rounds or so.

  43. Nick/TTAG, I’d LOVE to see a review of the supposedly awesome DPMS G2, perhaps the best AR-10 pattern rifle that’s affordable. Big Green owns DPMS, but that seems to be a smoking hot new product.

  44. I’ll hold my opinion until they send my 877, which I haven’t even shot yet, back from recall……wait, I guess you can surmise my opinion.

  45. After my last Rem 700 in .223 I had all but decided to buy another in .308 for the same treatment(stock, trigger, ect) but over the last couple years worth of goofballery I’m looking ANYWHERE else instead. I have no faith in Rem any more because they seem to think they’re “above us” somehow.

  46. Despite all their recent bad press, I was still tossing around the idea of a 700 over a Tikka T3 for the level of aftermarket support. I think I just made up my mind. I’m sure Beretta will enjoy my money.

  47. It looks as if Remington doesn’t like you anymore than it likes its customers. Or, in my case, ex-customer. Not only are the products of deteriorating quality, but customer service isn’t even professional enough to return a message complaining about their product. It appears they have outlived the usefulness. And, they have outlived their business model.

  48. It seems you have proved his prediction 100% accurate… so, yeah I wouldn’t want to talk to you either. lol.

    • If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, has the correct anatomy of a duck….
      Would you not treat it like a duck???

  49. After spending enough on Big Green Products over my lifetime to buy a nicely equipped Honda Civic, including over $5k in the last several years before last, and after planning to buy a R1 last year, I instead swore off the brand, at least until ownership changes again, plus any affiliated companies (after buying an AAC Element, bought a Silencerco and Wilson Whisper instead of another AAC product), after the 700 X-Mark recall debacle. I had egg on my face with one of secretaries when I recommended a 700 for her son’s first deer rifle, and as for me, they wouldn’t provide me with a box large enough to ship my unmodified, new Rem. Target Tactical sniper rifle with 26″ barrel and Medalist stock back to them. They have the bigger boxes; the rifles ship in them to dealers; but they won’t give you one to ship it back to them to fix their own screwup which could lead to an unintentional discharge?!? I offered to ship it back in the original box, but they wouldn’t let me have the box back; as we all know, the original box (or at least one like it) can increase the value if I ever decide to sell it). Instead, every time I called to ask for a resolution, they told me they had one box, sent me another one (hey, I now have 5 new Remington boxes that fit regular-sized 700 hunting rifles), until I was yelled at by a CS representative, told I was the one being unreasonable, and I just went ahead and installed a Timney at my own expense, rather than risk damage to the rifle in shipment. But good news! After the last interaction I had with them, they emailed me telling me they were sure their great CS had exceeded my expectations! Oddly enough, no “sarcasm” emoticon followed this declaration.

    Like a lot of people who buy (well, OK, bought) their products, and those of sister or subsidiary corporations, I’m an addict who spends a lot of money on this hobby, but Big Green won’t be getting any of my “green” for a long time, as not just QC, but CS, has obviously dropped precipitously.

  50. Very surprising attitude on Remington’s part. Haven’t they been in the biz long enough to know you don’t screw w/gun owners? Remember when Kmart did? I remember them closing stores all over the country not long after. Look at how well Kroger is doing at the moment. I guarantee their record profits have much to do w/their refusal to cave to MDA.
    Remington really is looking bad w/their handling of this R51 fiasco. I guarantee they will pay dearly for it.

  51. Cry more tttag. Your the only website that speaks the truth about guns? Please. Your site is more like the glock and AR fanboys club. Looks like we have a bunch of ttag keyboard commandos that have never owned a Remington, or at least need to start thinking for themselves. Every gun I have bought from them (5) including a r1 enhanced has been dead reliable. 2500 rounds so far in that one with nary a hick up. I am not defending the r51 but come on people, reading these comments reminds me of the bullies toadies all wanting a piece of the bullies (TTAG) glory. Expect flack ttag if your going to throw it from your bully pulpit. btw I do not own any rem stock. Just a reader (and I like the site) getting tired of ttag acting the fool on this topic. Your not a martyr taking a risky position by ragging on big green.

      • I’m open to others opinion but when there is a trophy (and meat) on the line or more importantly my life…. I take things that magazines or web sites say with a grain of salt. I’m much more likely to listen to friends and family then someone who makes a living with a certain level of stirring the pot. TTAG is acting like they are above the fray with only noble intentions at heart. I say they could use some tact while still getting their points across. Remington is just a company with some problems that some quality control could easily fix. Nothing more nothing less. You would think they stole Lindberghs baby judging by the comments here.

    • “2500 rounds so far in that one with nary a hick up. ”

      What’s a ‘hick-up’?

      Is that like a hiccup?

    • Glock and AR fanboys (sic) club? Really? I can’t think of a single gun sight or channel that mentions Glock less.
      I seem to recall that Nick in particular prefers a 1911 or high end DA/SA to any plastic fantastic.

    • Most “gun reviews” in most “gun publications” read like an extended version of the copy under the picture at a gun sales website.

      From marketing’s mouth to your ears, that’s usually how it’s presented.

      I remember when the R51 was announced, TTAG was very enthusiastic and positive about it. Until, you know, they got their hands on one, and it was a stinker. Not just ergonomic niggles, but MAJOR, DANGEROUS defects.

      When my life (or meat) is on the line, I’d rather not be sold a scroll of marketing fluff just to make sure the publication I’m reading doesn’t hurt a major corporation’s “feewings”, or to make sure said corporations will continue to make it rain (in the form of free guns to review or ad revenue) for the publications in the future.

      I’m sure Remington had the attitude of “We’re Remington. They won’t f*** with us.” – Then Nick did. Now they’re (arrogantly) incredulous. “WTF? They f***ed with us?! We’re Remington!”

      That same attitude, by the way, trickles down to customers. I was on the fence on a 700 until I read the R51 review, and decided to hold off. Surprisingly, the trigger recall happened, and I still have a friend – who works at a gun shop – who hasn’t gotten his back. I’m glad I held off, and I’m waiting right now to see if Remington “gets the message”.

      I have 16 Sigs because every freaking time they’ve been golden to me with customer service. My P227 got taken for a joy ride at the online/slash/brick-and-mortar FFL before I received it at my LGS. The thing looked like it had been kicked across pavement for a good afternoon. Wasn’t Sig’s fault, call them up, ask them how much it’d be for them to fix it up, and they say “Just send it in.” ONE WEEK later, it’s back, pristine. That’s how you win a customer.

      You act as if we owe Remington our business and deference because they’re Remington. I don’t give a good god damn who they are, their recent track record needs to be answered for.

      If “a little QC” can fix it, then they sure better get on that QC before people get seriously injured or killed. They’re old enough. They should know better.

      • After a lifetime of shooting, I have never had to send a Remington in or watch one of my buddies do the same. Just like your sigs they are a tool and while your experience speaks to the sigs reliability, (and customer support) so does mine (and millions more of us out there) who have gotten the same from Remington. Look I have owned (and currently do) many different brands of firearms. None of them are perfect but people here are acting like Remington is the devil incarnate. They are the oldest American company, with some issues of quality which I am pretty sure have to do with corporate and not the guys in the trenches. Do you really think the guy on the lathe wants to turn out a bad product? Do you think he might be overworked and stressed due to his corporate betters?
        I already stated that the r-51 was a mess but to act like Remington is the antichrist because of some ugly issues (entirely fixable) and a bravado filled website? Please. I am sure that Remington has gotten the message. Get over yourself TTAG.

        • Joseph, until the last 5-10 years or so, I had the exact same experience with Remington as you and your buddies! The Remington of our childhood is not the Remington of today. I sincerely hope it will be again in the future, as it truly is one of the great American historical corporations. But in the last decade or so, it’s been sold twice, to Freedom Group, and then to Cerberus, with history and tradition (and the strong tradition of Remington customer service) mattering less each time.

          I would love to be wrong, but until they’re sold to someone else, I don’t see it changing. But they probably will be, as Cerberus is an investment bunch, not gun people, so at some point if it doesn’t meet their profitability desires, they’ll divest themselves of it. And not including you, apparently, a ton of gun folks are fed up with a company they dearly loved only a few years ago.

  53. Here the thing,

    Regardless if your reviews were spot on, there’s a professional way of doing it – and then there’s the Shreman’s March to the Sea approach. Given your style of writing and reviews it’s entirely possible Remington saw it the latter and now you’ve burnt an industry bridge with a major manufacturer.

    And as you see, once you do that it is pretty hard to get back to a common ground. It’s easy for folks to discount Big Green given all their recent woes, but the company has learned how to survive and will continue to do so.

    • I agree Remington will continue to survive, but only on the backs of the hunting segment that only reads reviews in paid-for write-ups in traditional gun magazines.

    • Then there’s this thing called journalistic integrity. You don’t pull your punches because it might piss off the subject of your review.

    • This may well be true, but the catch is that ultimately Remington did have a horribly flawed product on their hands and got called out on it, polite or not. The onus is on them to prove it right this time, and refusing to even talk to the guy who originally exposed the issues does not exactly inspire confidence in the notion that they did so this time.

    • Brian – I think there’s enough ‘light fluff’ out there in the gun review world to go around.

      Maybe this won’t endear them with the manufacturers, but that’s not the point. I’d much rather they tell the truth than make sure they stay in good graces with big deal folk just because they’re big deal folk.

      Remington is acting childish about this. The proper thing to have done would have been to shown everyone what the improvements are. I’m still interested to see that.

      • The only one who is acting childish about this is TTAG. They get a little push back and what do they do? Cry to Mama which gets their keyboard commands all hot and bothered. Must be nice from that bully pulpit…

        • How is getting the bum’s rush, and then reporting that you got the bum’s rush, “crying”? Looks like they’re reporting a fact. You can draw your own conclusions about Big Green. The 700 trigger recall and associated poor customer service with getting rifles shipped back to them are facts, as is the R51 recall of every single pistol released. You are free to subjectively decide that those facts don’t matter to you, that Rem is wonderful, and that TTAG is a bunch of whiners; they are still facts.

  54. I wasn’t in the market for a Remington before reading this, and I’m sure not now. Obviously they are suffering from institutional paranoia over there. Too bad Larry Gatlin and Jimmy Dean used their name in that awesome song I’m still waiting to hear on the radio. Think Green paid for that endorsement to boost sales?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-ynvq_BU7w

  55. Just speaking for myself, I have no illusions that my refusal to do business with them will amount to more than a tiny drop in the bucket–if even that–nor do I know how many others may have done/will do the same. But I do know they won’t be getting anymore of my money until they fix certain things. I’m controlling the only thing I can control in this situation: where I spend money.

  56. As I see it, they’ve given you the big ol’ Heave Ho! Now you don’t have to hold back on their horrid products even a little. The bridge is burned, now turn around and mortar the town behind it. Big Green is crap. Their “Honey Badger” is gonna be garbage. It’s probably gonna disassemble itself during firing. Other manufacturers will come out with far better products. Remington doesn’t need to stick around anymore.

    • “The bridge is burned, now turn around and mortar the town behind it.” That’s pretty funny. I’m gonna use that the next time burned bridges comes up in conversation.

  57. If Remington is afraid f the truth, then I’m afraid of Remington. Was hoping to get a functioning R51 for my daughter, too.

    RF: I have lots of trouble only with posting here. Do a “hit piece?”

  58. Freedom Group,
    Destroying trust and throwing quality to the wind since 2007.

    Because we suck,
    And you hate us.

    • Now now, at least Remington is not basing their advertising efforts on tactical shooter box art and refusing to sell the cool toys to “civilians”…

  59. Yeah Remington, the R51 failing to pass basic function tests peer-reviewed by numerous trusted INDEPENDENT gear reviewers was everyone else’s fault but yours. You call that a hit piece? You must be high on the smell of your own farts if you think treating reviewers like this after your own failures is good business.

  60. Dude, this was hard to read with the grammer and spelling issues. However, remington needs to bring out something decent soon!

    • “Dude, this was hard to read with the grammer and spelling issues.”

      That’s spelled ‘grammar’, not ‘grammer’…

      That wavy red line under words when you’re composing? It’s known as a clue…

      Spelling issues…

      Yeah.

  61. I honestly can’t fault them, Nick. While the R51 was a bad gun, your original article about it screamed “temper tantrum” because Remington didn’t invite you to the promo shoot.

  62. Yea – TTAG give’s the freedom group a hard time – but so does a lot of other people and the commenters. With the R51, the marlin stocks breaking off, and a host of other quality issues the freedom group has been having, they would win some hearts and minds a bit better if they delivered a quality product instead of telling critical people to “go away.”

    Remington: “Quality” performs it’s own marketing. With enough money pumped into marketing – you can sell a turd, but a quality product sells itself.

  63. Remington needs to get rid of the yes men and hire someone that will give them the truth about their guns.

  64. There’s plenty of other companies that make guns. Goodbye is too nice so I’ll say fare thee well, don’t think twice it’s alright.

  65. They’re as bad as another American gun maker that begins with an R. I love my old skool 870s, but after reading this, no more new ones for me.

  68. Remington is NOT my gun company any more. Their quality sucks, their products lack innovation and have for a decade now. I’m done with the big “R”. I sold ALL of my remington firearms.

  69. Lets see, I am a company and choose to loose my cool on a media connected person to the very business I represent. And these people at Remington justify their paychecks how?

  70. I have no strong opinions on Remington. Too new to all this. But I have a business and buy and sell for a living. The gun world is pretty small to be so petty. Dissing TTAG is insane…

  71. Remington boothmeister speak: “No matter if I talk to you or not, you’re going to write a hit piece.”

    Translation: “No matter how much smoke we blow up your ass you can’t be trusted to pen a glowing article like we have come to expect from traditional firearm publications who are obliged after taking our advertising dollars to deceive prospective gun customers and make them want to own the junk we produce.”

  72. There have been a lot of comments already, and I don’t want to pile on, but there are some points that need to be made:

    1. Some very senior people at Remington knew or should have know that they were selling a seriously defective carry piece to scores of grandmothers, young women, and parents of small would-be orphans, among others. The pistol was marketed as a concealed carry pistol that would perform when lives were on the line. Don’t take my word for it, read what was stated in the press release announcing the R51:

    “Design a concealed carry handgun to maximize any user’s shooting ability under the extreme stress of a personal defense scenario: This was the charge of Remington engineers, and the launch of the new Model R51 subcompact marks the proud completion of this multi-year mission.”

    And this gem:

    “‘The Model R51 is a truly groundbreaking concealed carry pistol, designed to help shooters of all experience levels put more shots where it counts, when it counts most. We wanted to bring something entirely new, with real quantifiable shooter benefits to the concealed carry market, and we’re excited for America to try the Model R51 first-hand,’ said Leland Nichols, Senior Vice President and GM of Handguns and Accessories.”

    Both quotes are still up on Remington’s site at http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/press-releases/2014/firearms/remingtonentersconcealedcarryhandgunmarket.aspx

    2. Marketing the R51 in this way and then shipping a defective product was nothing short of evil. I firmly believe there is a special circle of hell reserved for those who work to profit from the serious injury or death of innocents. How dare those Remington employees mouth off to Nick? They should thank him for the lives his review likely saved, to say nothing of potential lawsuits against the Freedom Group and the firestorm that would have been generated in the mainstream media if some young mother had lost her life because an R51 failed to perform mid-mugging. Everyone professionally connected to the pistol should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

    3. By my count there are, at this moment, 31 comments out of 142 make a direct statement about a lack of desire to purchase from Remington and/or FG again. Add me to that tally. Well over 75% of the comments are intensely negative towards Remington. Considering the readership of this blog tends to skew towards first time buyers and hardcore gun folks, Remington has a serious problem when you consider Nick’s number of more than 2.2 million unique monthly visitors. I personally have passed on about $1,000 worth of Freedom Group firearms, ammo, and apparel in the past year. Those dollars went to the FG’s competitors.

    4. I do not have the time to attend Shot Show or the NRA convention. New media bloggers like those from TTAG are the closest thing to direct representation before the powers that be that I have as a consumer. When Remington kicked Nick out of the booth, it kicked us all out of the booth.

    Get your act together Remington. Quit selling dangerously defective equipment. Own your past actions. Work to improve your products. Embrace the new media, and the consumers they represent. If you can’t do these things, you can’t have my money.

    • What’s worse, 700s that may fire when you DON’T want them to (only admitted after litigation), or R51s that won’t fire when you DO want them to? Tomato, tomahto. Either way, the customer loses, except here, it’s potentially a lot more dangerous than gettin’ a bad pair of jeans.

  73. They’re just used to print media writers kissing their asses. As print media dies and reputable online sources continue to become more popular, these companies are going to either embrace honest places or lose respect.

  74. So you post a list of anti Remington articles to show how unbiased you are?
    Then get all butthurt when they ask you to leave the booth?
    If all you wrote were hit pieces on FN and Sig ( who we all know you have personal relationships with) then you may see similar results.

  75. In my opinion, Nick and everyone else have been very fair and honest in ALL reviews and in articles about all manufacturers. How can anyone deny that Remington has been going through some rough stuff since the Freedom Gang told charge? It defies logic to say that the guns they ship now are the same as the Pre-G models. Obvious and frequent quality issues are seen so confidence is not very high.

    What Nick did was blatantly obvious; he told the actual truth, as we all want and expect. If not just think how many among us would have purchased one of the R51’s right away?? Is he to be faulted for being honest? Ask yourself that question people who are raggin’ on him now. How happy would you have been if someone had blown smoke up your *** and many of us had bought these?? Each of you would be bitching up a storm about Nick then for not telling it like it is!!

    Good news, Nick and the staff here don’t operate that way. Isn’t that why we spend time here? Nick, I salute you for your honesty! I am sure that you had sleepless nights wondering if you should go to press with the article….who wouldn’t. But honesty prevailed and we are all the better for his honesty! S before some of you question his intent, just put yourself in his shoes; what would you do when a known bad product was evaluated?? Are you man enough, as Nick was, to tell the honest truth? Or would you take the path of least resistance, as the paper mags did, and put lipstick on this pig and tell her she’s beautiful? Thought so….That is all.

  76. I collect 1911’s and still do not have a “big green” in my safe. Was about to go “pull the trigger” and spend the cash for one till I came across this article. i really do not want to do business with people that act like this. Believe it or not, perception is still the #1 reason someone picks a company or product to associate with. I own a 700, 1100, and two 870’s. I have always liked the brand but I think I’m through!

  77. Dear Big Green,
    I grew up liking your products. The ones loaned to me at the range. Alas now that I am old enough to have disposable income you make junk and treat people like trash? No Remington expected in my safe! It’s been said that the people of the gun have the longest memories…
    Sincerely,
    JN

    • Unfortunately for me, my largest safe is a Remington licensed Liberty that cost me $3k, so that every time I get a gun out or put one away, I have to look at the logo!

      In all seriousness, it’s a sad thing for me, too, because some of the fondest memories of my childhood are hunting with my 870 Wingmaster with full gloss wood, which at the time I thought was the neatest, coolest shotgun in existence. My greatest desire was for a 700 .30-’06 deer rifle, which neither I nor my parents could afford. For a poor, country kid, Remington was the top of the line and the best there was (Browning must have been for millionaires, ya know). I know they’ll get it fixed again some day, and I don’t think the company will ever die, but right now, it’s pretty bad.

  78. Hmmm

    Bushmaster showed you the door.
    Remington showed you the door.

    Anybody ever considered maybe it’s not them…??

    • That’s two sister corporations, both owned by the same corporate parent, even before the Freedom Group sale to Cerberus, so…one corporation, really. Out of an entire industry. If 10 unrelated gun companies give him the bum’s rush, the problem will indeed be TTAG, but not with one angry corporation.

  79. What astonishes me is that Remington MARKETING employees would behave this way.

    If the group mind-set is to deflect on the failings by controversial-izing the writer, then something bigger and much more troubling than sloppy quality control on the manufacturing line is going on.

    Combine the bad decision to release the new handgun with what had to be known operational problems, and the reports of slow and poor customer service on the long-gun recalls, and you have to wonder about the integrity of the leadership.

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