As the investigation of the shooting proceeded on July 4th and in the days and weeks after, I maintained frequent contact with law enforcement and other elected officials in the area. It was important to me to understand in detail what happened that day so I could develop legislative proposals aimed at preventing similar tragedies in the future.
What I learned about the details of that day horrified me even more. The suspected shooter used an assault weapon to perpetrate the massacre: specifically, a Smith & Wesson M&P 15. The gun is an AR-15-style rifle. I learned that AR-15 rifles trace their origins to the ArmaLite AR-15, which was developed for use by the U.S. Army in the late 1950s. The original ArmaLite AR-15 was subsequently re-named with minimal modifications to become the M-16—the standard-issue infantry weapon for members of the U.S. military beginning in the mid-1960s.
I also learned that there is not much difference between the M-16 and the AR-15- style rifles available to civilians in our country. The M-16 has the capability to engage in fully automatic fire and three-shot bursts, whereas the civilian AR-15 models that are legally sold have only semi-automatic capability. Other than that difference, the AR-15s available to civilians are essentially the same as the M-16s that our soldiers have carried into battle for decades.
I also learned that the gun used by the suspected Highland Park shooter, the Smith & Wesson M&P 15, is marketed as “M&P” because “M&P” implies “Military & Police”. In other words, the gun’s manufacturer intentionally markets the weapon by touting its use as a weapon of war.
— Declaration of Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan in Barnett v. Raoul challenging Illinois’ “assault weapons” ban
“M&P” is a brand, not a target user demographic. Unless the congresscritter hadn’t noticed, the military (and, I assume, police) has a rigorous process to select their “weapons of war”. I don’t think the “M&P” brand has submitted to, much less been selected through, such a process. (I could also be entirely wrong.)
Regardless, the founders intended for the second amendment to constrain the State from prohibiting the right of the people to keep and bear weapons of war – explicitly and specifically.
It’s a set up for a lawsuit. Remember in the Sandy Hook law suit they got around the law against frivolous lawsuits by claiming the gun was inappropriately marketed to at risk young men. Naming something “Military & Police” and then submitting for military and police trials would indicate that military and police were the target customers. Naming something “Military & Police” and not submitting it for military and police trials indicates that the name is a marketing ploy and the real target customers are unstable disaffected young men playing violent video games and contemplating bad actions. Or so the law suit will claim.
While I am hoping you are ascribing more intelligence to this representative than merited that is a strong possibility.
right there is proof the Scammy Crooks lawsuit was a travesty of justice from the git-go. We ALL know that the rifle alledgedly used in that alledged masssacre was NOT purchased by a memeber of the supposed target user group. Nopem it was purchased by a woman for home defense. The FACT that her son murdered her to get access to her weaons, kept in a safe, should have had that case tossed. With prjudice and pay the defendants legal bills. Interesting wrinkle in that case: Remington had been dissolved in an earlier unrelated case and it was the attorneys for that disolving entity who voluntarily “settled” that lawsuit, mentioned above. I would hope no one in the firearms industry will ever trust any of those lawyers again.
Just a reminder to everyone.
Then senator Joe Biden wrote and then president Bill Clinton signed into law the 1033 program. And it was president Obama years later who insured that select fire weapons like the M16 and M 14, as well as grenade launchers, and armored vehicles with machine gun turrets, were sent for free to police departments all over the United States.
Yeah fun seeing the local sheriff department matv and mraps for city/town police. Don’t even want to think about maintenance costs.
Let’s not forget that the “M&P” line of firearms were named so for their toughness and reliability in every day use brought about by S&W’s long history with the US military during both world wars.
Literally thousands of revolvers, pistols, rifles and shotguns made it into the holsters and ready racks of police departments throughout the US and others across the entire globe. Shanghai, London, Saigon, Berlin, Sao Paulo, Buenes Aires , all armed their police with S&W products with great success. So, yeah its a bit of a “marketing ploy” but what products anywhere don’t have one ?
This “elected official” just proves that we as Americans have gotten lazy in that we hire the low hanging fruit backed by big interest money simply because its easy.
Want to see another bad example? Look at the mayor of Philadelphia.
Oh man! A lot to unpack here from this idiot, but all of it can be done with some mental health help and learning that being disingenuous and deceptive is not what he was elected to do.
“…because “M&P” implies “Military & Police”. In other words, the gun’s manufacturer intentionally markets the weapon by touting its use as a weapon of war.” – Rep. Morgan
Implies? So he’s inserting his personal subjective opinion on this as a credible source?
Fine. His own statements “imply” that he’s refusing to support and defend the very Constitution he swore to uphold, and therefore “implies” that he’s a traitor to his country. It’s the only logical assumption that can be made. He needs to be removed from office immediately.
“Implies? So he’s inserting his personal subjective opinion on this as a credible source?”
Of course, peon.
He was elected, not *you*… 🙁
I think the term “duly elected” is becoming increasingly squishy nowadays. As long as Domini0n, ERIC, and mail-in ballots are being used, I have no confidence in any elections.
and then charged with felony perjury for swearing his oath of office and failing to uphold it.
Obviously milquetoast bob is so full of it he needs an ER enema.
I think it would have to be done outside as the volume would fill the E R up to the ceiling !
“…he needs an ER enema.”
With a firehose? 🙂
“Other than that difference, the AR-15s available to civilians are essentially the same as the M-16s that our soldiers have carried into battle for decades.”
Actually, most citizen AR-15s are considerably nicer than the ones issued by the military. Free people are entitled to pay for quality when they want it.
What is the difference between a marxist and a democrat ?
A Marxist/Socialist/Communist will gladly admit their Ideology. A Democrat Marxist/Socialist/Communist will deny any affiliation. Even while pushing the Ideology at every opportunity. Marxists often refer to socialism as the first, necessary phase on the way from capitalism to communism.
Truth awaiting Moderation.
Good explanation. Following the line of “thought” of this idiot Morgan, then the democrat / communists should be outlawed and banned because communism is a weapon of war. look how many have perished because of it and it has no safety device.
Reminds me of what I heard recently about an elderly woman from Poland. She was asked what the difference was between being occupied by the Nazis or occupied by the Soviets. Her response was “the flag.”
I get so tired of this “But it’s a weapon of war, or very similar to one!” argument.
Read the damned Second Amendment! Not infringing on the PEOPLE’S access to “weapons of war” is what it is exactly and precisely all about!
The argument should come from our side when the wannabe tyrants try to tell us which weapons they are willing to allow us to own: “But that’s NOT a weapon of war!”
The 2nd says arms which goes beyond firearms. In that equation, however, the firearm would probably be a musket which was used in war so the 2nd gives the people the right to possess weapons of war that can also be used for rabbits.
Our colonia forbears used firearms for a purpose the British Regulars/lobsterbacks did not. The farmers and townsfolk used their firearms in large part to eat. Turkey, deer, rabbits, grouse, etc were daily fare in many areas. If you were not a good shot you would get mighty hungry. So “wepons of war” must be those tools suited to prevail in the “war on hunger”.When the treasonous Brits turned to subjugate those colonists, said colonists picked up the same firearms they’d been using ti feed themselves and simply turned them, alongwiththeir superior skill in their use, against the Redcoats. It is proven by militia records that many of the militia comanies had to order bll inseveral different sizes BECAUSE each militiaman had brought his own instrument to muster, they were not all issuedby the ,ilitia… wich was simply the local folk gathered together for their own protection. Even then, the long guns that WERE suppied by any given local militia were simply purchased from the same folks that made them for the locals for shooting goose, deer, grouse, boar, etc.
So even it this nutjob is correct his rant againt “military style” firearms in the hands of civilians would be a rant against our entire history of firearms and their use since at least 1620.
topical question: how many here can name the one cartridge that has been used in the taking of game in North Amrica, everything frm jackrabbits to bear/moose/bison? It is the venerable and still very capable .30/06, or “thirty ought six”. It was a military cartridge developed for the battlefield.
Next how many can name the single most-used hunting rofle model from, oh,say 1945 at least up till about 1980 maybe later? It was the 1903 Springfield, a military rifle developed (in 1903) for military use on the battlefield. Millions of them were repatriated into the US and sold almost everywhere. I rememer seeing racks of them in offer for $25 or so, at Western Auto, any “war surplus” store, general stores, hardware and auto parts stores. At fifteen I could have bought one cash on the counter and walked out with it legally, in California where I grew up. (the only issue Id have had was my Mom who for some reason I’ve never been able to figure out did not like or trust guns. Lots of my friends had them. My Uncle (Dad’s side) was a sniper in the Pacific Theatre, ihis “tool” used for his work was a military issue 1903 Springfield with what then passed for a “good” scope. When he was mustered out after the war, he was able to bring that rifle back with hi,. He had a hunting stock for it and every year he’d get his buck, he also took elk, moutain lion, wild boar. Never had to use it against two legged threats, but I’ve seen him shoot and there is o question he’d have taken care of business any distance out to a thousand yards.
Talk about a “military weapon of war in the hands of a civilian”. That model rifle is now 120 years old, and every bit as capable now as it was then. I have some very fine rifles made for “sporting purposes” chambered in that round, and one of them is semiauto, a modal developed as a weapon of war as well. I guess this varmint politician would want me to “sell back” that one, too. No gonna happen. My sailboat will sink long before his minions could ever come close enough to see me.
Exactly right, mine are way nice than anything Uncle Sam issued me.
Except for the tall peaks, mountains and prairies are exactly the same.
Military weapons are among those the 2nd Amendment protects, hence the word “militia”. Anyone who attempts to take them away opposes the constitution, the republic, and the people.
Kinda like anyone with a “D” after their name is an enemy of the state, eh!?
AMEN, well said!
He can bleat all he wants. Yes, people use guns to kill innocent people. It happens. But they’re gonna need to figure out another way to stop it other than banning and confiscating the firearms of law-abiding people and not respecting their 2A rights.
Sorry, scumbag. We’re gonna continue doing everything we can to keep and bear our arms, because of politicians like you. You stand on bloody bodies not because you care about the victims, but because you want to take away our rights, first to keep and bear arms, the then our rights to free speech, and ultimately, our property and our lives. Not gonna happen, buddy.
But they’re gonna need to figure out another way to stop it other than banning and confiscating the firearms of law-abiding people and not respecting their 2A rights.
Yup. Start with putting folks who DO misuse firearms to harm innocents (and any other implement of death and destruction as well) into some form of confinement away from the general population, and for tose wo wilfully take an innocent life, execute them. THAT is the only way the current rash of violence against persins will be reduced.
How many recent igh profile crimes of violence have been perpetrated by those who had previously done something along these lines, were arrested and charged, then released back into the community only to do it again in a few or days or weeks? How thick headed (or is it traitorous?) can these politicians get?
“…preventing similar tragedies…”
he learned four new things about a very common item, yet hasn’t learned that legislation cannot prevent violence.
He is afraid of the “M&P” designation? Then, change the name- do ya think that would make him happier and more accepting?
He is afraid of the “M&P” designation?
No, he’s not afraid, he’s just another opportunist who is just smart enough to use a company’s marketing gimmick against them but still stupid enough to be dangerous…
You know what would be entertaining as hell?
A new gun company, that produces nothing but magazine-fed semi-automatic ‘weapons of war’, but is named “The Progressive Gun Company”.
Think of the advertising possibilities! 🙂
“No, that’s not an evil AR-15, it’s my new Progressive-15! It says it right on the housing!” 🙂
I hope some smaller manufacturer with a sense of humor introduces a Diversity & Equity line of firearms just to troll these politicians. They can start with a D&E 15.
Bob, when the ccp is done with the coup, they will kill you. That’s what the commies have done every single time. You won’t be any use to them, and they won’t take a chance on you being a future threat. You will be wishing the redneck was coming with his M&P 15.
Exactly. The useful idiots are the first against the wall.
It’s exactly what happened to the original founders of Antifa when they fled to the USSR from Germany, having helped destroy the Weimar Republic. Stalin didn’t want malcontents roaming around, so executions all around.
Huh. I always imagined they ended up as Stasi or Commissars, or some part of the East German commie apparatus.
“…because “M&P” implies “Military & Police”. In other words, the gun’s manufacturer intentionally markets the weapon by touting its use as a weapon of war.”
NO!
The M&P does stand for “Military & Police”, but its use by S&W is used to celebrate military and police by paying homage to the Smith & Wesson .38 Military & Police revolver (now known as the Model 10 revolver, has been in continuous production since 1899) the government asked to be created for military, police, AND civilian use in its commercial marketing. The M&P does not indicate a “weapon of war” intentionally or otherwise.
The M&P 15 was introduced at the 2006 SHOT Show having two versions, the M&P 15 and the M&P 15T and other variations have appeared since. It was originally produced for S&W by Stag Arms.
Although the AR-15 platform was eventually used to create and market a military rifle to the military. The origin design was intended as a semi-auto variation of the Armalite 10 for the civilian market. When the need came around with the military looking for a new rifle Stoner used that design already in progress to focus on the possibility of marketing a rifle to the military. In actuality, the origin of the AR-15 was as a civilian market rifle and the origin was not as a military rifle.
“The M&P 15 was introduced at the 2006 SHOT Show having two versions, the M&P 15 and the M&P 15T and other variations have appeared since. It was originally produced for S&W by Stag Arms.”
Thank you for that. I have one, won it on Gunbroker from a Colorado State Trooper who said it was made by Stag but have never found anything to confirm that.
Looks like Morgan has the answer to rid our civilians of military type weapons.
Just roll mark all firearms for civilians with “This is not a gun”
One of the many flaws in this idiot’s thinking is that a law will stop a criminal. All the rest is foolishness.
Ok, so if I’m understanding correctly:
Any firearm that carries a name indicator for it’s intended use by the militry and/or the police is the ‘weapon of war’ that the left feels is so important to ban?
What this tells me is that:
All other firearm manufacturers need to be left alone and be untouched by federal legislation for all forms of regulation or banning.
Smith&Wesson needs to rename their product line.
All these so-called “weapons of war” are about what cops and soldiers use and NOT what the rest of the population use. Meaning THEY are the ones that need to be disarmed.
——-
With that said, there are just a few small items to be cleared up here. Since there is so little difference between M16’s and AR15’s, it doesn’t make any sense to not allow the citizens of the US direct access to M16 rifles. It also makes no sense to go through all this effort and legal wrangling JUST BECAUSE the chosen moniker for this particular line of firearms happens to be “M&P”. That is just plain crazy. There is enough modification between the M16 and AR15 that one is available to everyone and the other is ONLY for the military.
We ARE at war. Our community is the battle field. Slavery and servitude is the intention.
Slavery is NOT about black vs. white. It’s about being forced to obey the will of others regardless of cost. Just as racism is in the hearts and minds of humans regardless of race.
A rose by any other name…
All other firearm manufacturers need to be left alone and be untouched by federal legislation for all forms of regulation or banning.
Eventually one of his “rocket scientist” colleagues will have the “aha moment” where they recognize the similarities between the M&P and ALL other AR platforms and jump straight to the conclusion that all ARs were obviously “INTENDED” to be weapons of war…
But but but just inscribing M&P on the slide is just like the little shoulder thingy that goes up–it makes that firearm FAR more dangerous than is acceptable for civilian use!
“I learned I learned I learned”
No you didn’t you ignorant jackass Bob.
Sounds like the boy’s looking for an “issue” to run for re-election on. The sheeple of his district will likely continue to vote blindly for him so this is just grandstanding on his part. Unfortunately we can’t ignore him. Anyone on TTAG live in his district? Personal visit is in order, at night, with bull whips?
I have no plans on going to war with my lowly M&P. Sure was happy I had it when BLM invaded my town. EFF you ILLANNOY Dims and the donkey drilling you🙄
Obviously I disagree with his premise. However, based on his premise, the police, who are 100% civilians, are allowed to use “weapons of war” but non-police civilians cannot.
Sounds like a 14th Amendment “equality” issue to me. Some animals are more equal than others.
Looks like a Smith & Wesson M&P 22 just got upgraded to MilSpec I bet every corporal wants to got to war with this. >> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMELIB3kZzsnqqc2mOHTeLR58uqclTDz921g&usqp=CAU
Well, at least he admits this super high-tech killing technology enabling carnage only seen in the modern world is 75 years old. That’s something. Usually they all act like it’s a brand new thing dropped into our laps by ne’er-do-wells from another world.
WW1 fulfills that carnage you speak of. Overwhelmingly & over 100 years ago. Something something machine gunz,poison gas,concentration camps & mass slaughter. You don’t need an
ARa15 for death🙄
@former, you got that right, most of the dead from WW2 are from bombs, artillery, gas chambers and starvation. The item least responsible is a firearm. 50 million souls lost to stupidity, greed and ignorance.
Good point. Did he learn you could buy those without a background check?
What I see here is an argument for disarming cops and arming citizens.
While in the army. My go to war weapon was a 4 inch 38 special revolver in 1988.
“M&P”??? “That means it’s for military and police only no civilians.”
These people are just stupid on purpose.
This whole thing about “Weapons of war” baffles me. The S&W Model 10 .38 Special revolver, Ruger Mark I .22 pistol, Ruger 10/.22 rifle , Remington and Mossberg pump shotguns , Remington and Winchester Bolt action rifles have and are being used by the US Military in combat These arms are very popular with civilians and have been readily available for decades. A “Weapon of War” is a meaningless term, as is “Assault Weapon.”
fyi
The 22lr round makes an outstanding war caliber. Are there better ones? Yes. But 100 men with suppressed 22 rifles can control a city of 100,000 or more.
In the past. Just two men. Or I should say one man and one boy, with one rifle, controlled the Baltimore. The DC and the Northern Virginia Metropolitan areas.
From 2015
Israel Adopts Ruger SR-22 in “Less Lethal” Sniper Role
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/10/21/israel-adopts-ruger-sr-22-in-less-lethal-sniper-role/
Ya know. Whats crazy to me is one day if (when?) the SHTF and everything comes crashing down (like it has so many times in this world throughout time) how fast all these anti gunners will be changing their minds and seeing what our fuss was all about.
I mean it doesnt take a real stretch of the imagination to see our govt falling to a foreign enemy, or trying a takeover of their own one day.
The antis will be knocking on our doors wanting to hang out then.
Since congresscritters just LOVE to demonstrate how much smarter they are than us unedjumacated pleebs by pointing out the finest technical details, go suck on this Bob…. M&Ps aren’t stamped with ANYTHING genius – they’re laser engraved !!
Boom!
Isn’t about 90% of everything S&W makes designated M&P? I mean there is NO way an M&P 15-22 could be mistaken for a “weapon of war”…
And yet, the State’s filing that Bob’s lunacy was attached to does exactly that:
They show a 10/22 with a standard stock as acceptable and one outfitted similarly to an M&P15 as “regulated”.
Now we know why Barnum & Bailey finally folded, all their clowns ran away and joined Congress…
Kinda depends on what your at war with.
Nice of him to let the cat out of the bag and admit that the police are an organization of war. Apparently the war is between the government (their paymasters) and the rest of us.
My thought also. If we are equipping our police with “WEAPONS OF WAR!” does that mean that the police are at war with the citizenry?
so police are at war with us?
This is from the same short bus riders that think AR in AR-15 means Assault Rifle. Only 3 sides on the gun control debate. Those who know anything about firearms, those who dont, and those that dont but dont care cause for them its all about control, the guns are secondary.
So… who exactly are the police at war with?
Gov, that is an excellent response question. I hope you or somebody else posts it in Morgan’s Twitter feed for all to see.
The AR-15 is a “weapon of war” …. in fact, pretty much all firearms are “weapons of war” …. precisely what the Founders intended to protect with the Second Amendment.
FBI records reveal that rifles of any type are used in barely two percent of all homicides. Extrapolation from the FBI’s more detailed, caliber specific records of weapons used to kill police officers, it can be estimated that less than one percent of all homicides are committed with military style, semiautomatic rifles. Perhaps this Imbecile should consider the fact that the clearance rate much less arrest rates for homicides have plummeted from well over 90% in 1960 to barely fifty percent last year. The clearance rate for murder in Chicago is barely one in ten. it isn’t the guns that are the problem.
Any weapon can be a “weapon of war”, you just need to take it to the front lines with you and there you go. This man’s ignorance knows no bounds. Henny Penny would sure be proud of him. Why is is that only firearms are blamed, and not the person wielding it? Baseball bats, knives, cars, etc. the person gets blamed, but guns are held responsible. My M&P 40 has never jumped out of its holster and started randomly shooting people.
“M&P” = “bad”?
Fine. Then label it the “Feelz-1000”.
That’ll fix everything.
BTW – I couldn’t think of a number that begins with a “U”.
And?
And the second Amendment is all about hunting.
Stop.
We The People are supposed to have Weapons Of War.
The assualt weapons ban and all the rest of the sht is an infringement,
Shall Not Be Infringed. –
.
I thought I found a quite place
Where I could catch my child a dream
But on the left and right they keep on shouting
While I’m just stuck here in between.
And its ‘ Hey you, keep your head down, dont make a sound, or the man will shoot you down.
The Second Amendment was made to be Infringed and We The People did nothing.
Wyatt Earp was no hero.
Wyatt Earp instituted gun control in Dodge City so that when he indulged in a little cheating at cards, he’d be the only man at the table with a gun.
More things change…
only part of Dodge City…below the deadline..
Dick Durbin
Tammy Duckworth
Brad Schneider
Julie Morrison
Bob Morgan
What do ALL of these people have in common?
The first two are anti gun and anti 2A who are supposed to represent Illinois in the US Senate.
The third one is anti gun and anti 2A and is supposed to represent Illinois in the US House.
The last two are anti gun and anti 2A who are supposed to represent their districts in Illinois.
The last three’s districts all include Highland Park.
Bob Morgan is on the Illinois Firearms and Firearm Safety Committee.
He had to make some kind of statement because Illinois is getting slammed by lawsuits.
The lawsuits specifically name Pritzker and Raoul in them.
Strange coincidence with Bob Morgan’s statement timing yesterday:
“Founding fathers didn’t own AR-15s or large capacity magazines, Pritzker and Raoul argue in defense of ban. Illinois Attorney General Kwame Raoul filed the brief to answer challenges to the assault weapon ban, arguing the nation’s founding fathers owned guns that could only shoot a single shot before reloading — proving assault weapons weren’t in “common use” at the time.”
While any of these people will be tough to vote out,
Bob Morgan and Julie Morrison know that come election time, it doesn’t hurt too have Pritzker money. It used to Madigan money and their districts are completely gerrymandered.
They will never lose an election until the districts are drawn fairly.
Then State and Local governments are outfitting their law enforcement agencies “for war”?
What “war” are they preparing for?
And any person stamped a politician is a liar and crooked.
Wait until he finds out that the HK416D means Hell & Khaos 416 Damned, implying the 416 different dimensions of eternal punishment for those killed by this soul-stealing weapon.
So he imagines that the police should use weapons of war on US citizens?
Didn’t think anyone could be that stupid. Thanks for proving us wrong, Bob.
“Anything Stamped ‘M&P’ is a Weapon of War”
Good to see more Leftists beginning to understand the intent of the Second Amendment: a warning to tyrants and rogue government.
So my m&p j frame is a assault weapon?
“So my m&p j frame is a assault weapon?”
Nope, just a weapon of war.
But, what if the “M&P” is obliterated after acquisition?
Then you clearly possess an assault grinder, router or sander (or similar) and are subject to a mandatory minimum of 25 years for your NFA violation.
“Then you clearly possess an assault grinder, router or sander (or similar) and are subject to a mandatory minimum of 25 years for your NFA violation.”
I knew there was a catch, somewhere.
Shoulda just made an auto sear. 5 years NFA max, 10 max for the tax dodge.
Tools of mass destruction are something the ATF takes seriously though.
Perhaps the gentleman from Deerfield does not know that the Law he supports ( that has received a major blow ) does allow the Citizens of Illinois to own weapons of war. Under Illinois Law you can own:
A canon
A Gatling Gun
Any firearm used from the beginnings of the Country to all of the conflicts of the 19th Century.
The M1903 series of firearms
The M1 Garand
Standard issued SKS rifles with the combat used 10 round box magazine
All Bolt action rifles used in every conflict since they were introduced
The precedence in Illinois is that weapons of war are legal to own and use for all lawful purposes.
Your recently blown Law was all kabuki, it did not restrict weapons of war, just the imposters. A bit like your Party apparently, all imposters of someone who performs their duties to their constituents, their State and Country. Your Party is a larger danger to society than any so called weapon of war.
until the AR-15 actually goes to war…it’s a moot point….
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